‘Big Shot Rob’ Shoots Straight On ‘The Dream’

[duncan228]

‘Big Shot Rob’ shoots straight on ‘The Dream’ (http://businessmirror.com.ph/home/sports/15822-big-shot-rob-shoots-straight-on-the-dream.html)
by Rick Olivares

FOURTEEN years ago, Sports Illustrated ran a feature where the National Basketball Association (NBA) stars of yesteryears were pitted against the stars of the day. Then-Houston Rocket forward Robert Horry was pitted against former New York Knick Bill Bradley in the article.

When interviewed for the piece, Bradley, a former three-term US senator, could only utter one word when told of the matchup: “Help!”

Horry, now comfortably retired after having won seven championship rings with three different teams, was obviously pleased and surprised when told of the good senator’s comments.

“For him to say that, I feel very honored. I’m fortunate. One very lucky guy because few people have been able to accomplish what I’ve done,” softly said the former Alabama Crimson Tide player who seemed to be pleased with the reception of the NBA Legends who are in Manila to play an exhibition match dubbed, the 2009 NBA Asia Challenge.

The NBA players, who will be supported by a selection from the Developmental League, will tip off against their Philippine Basketball Association (PBA) counterparts on Friday at 7:30 p.m. at the Araneta Coliseum.

Solar Sports chief operating officer Peter Chanliong, a Los Angeles native who is never shy to declare his devotion for the hometown Lakers, told the assembled media horde in a Makati City restaurant that it was a dream for him because three of the legends participating in the 2009 NBA Asia Challenge had a purple and gold legacy—Horry, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Vlade Divac.

“Get this guy a jersey,” teased the six-foot-nine Horry, who referred to Chanliong suiting up for the NBA team that will also count Tim Hardaway and Dominique Wilkins in the lineup.

The PBA contingent will feature legends Allan Caidic, Alvin Patrimonio, Benjie Paras and Ronnie Magsanoc, and will be supported by current stars Wynne Arboleda and Arwind Santos, among others. The event is the biggest involving NBA players outside North America and Europe.

“I’m older than you guys,” gamely protested the boss of Solar Sports who proudly received from Abdul-Jabbar a game jersey with his surname printed on the back. “This is cool.”

In an exclusive interview with the BusinessMirror, Horry, although several years removed from active competition, said he looks forward to hitting some of those big shots that he made a career out of while playing for the Houston Rockets, Phoenix Suns, Lakers and San Antonio Spurs in a career that saw him win seven championship rings.

“It’s hard to stay away from the game that I love so much and it has been a long and joyous ride. I am happy to be able to do what I did in the league and work with great players and coaches. Sometimes when I sit back and look back, I just go, ‘Wow! I did that?’ Now hopefully we can put on a show for the fans in Manila. I keep hearing how crazy this country is about basketball,” he said.

When asked who was the best center he ever played with, Horry, who played the middle for the Crimson Tide, didn’t bat an eyelash when he declared former Houston Rockets’ great Hakeem Olajuwon as the top slotman.

“He was so talented and could do so many different things. I’d put him on top and Tim [Duncan] and Shaquille [O’Neal] can trade places for second and third.”

Horry then paused, smiled, and made sure he was clear with his intentions, “Hey, Shaq and Tim...I love you guys, okay?”

He let out a laugh. Clearly he was having fun. With time left for one question, I asked how he’d like to be remembered. Horry, who still looks lean and in game shape, coolly replied: “I’m just a guy who got the opportunity to knock down some big shots for a championship or two. It can’t get any better than that.”

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Hakeem over Timmy....travesty!!!!!

[rjv]

he certainly played with three of the best big men.

[ambchang]

The great thing is, as great as Horry was, even he couldn't get the Suns a championship.

[tmtcsc]

Hakeem was great but Timmy has done it longer and with more consistency. I'd say Tim is the best big man out of that bunch. Tim was certainly better than Hakeem at rebounding but I'd give Hakeem the edge with jump shot and shot blocking. Tim has the better post moves while Hakeem had amazing ability to put the ball on the floor and the shimmy shake.

Damn, that's a tough one. I feel ya Rob.

[Lars]

Hakeem was great but Timmy has done it longer and with more consistency. I'd say Tim is the best big man out of that bunch. Tim was certainly better than Hakeem at rebounding but I'd give Hakeem the edge with jump shot and shot blocking. Tim has the better post moves while Hakeem had amazing ability to put the ball on the floor and the shimmy shake.

Damn, that's a tough one. I feel ya Rob.

:lol

[benefactor]

:lol
Agreed. I would accept an argument that they were equal...but Duncan was not better. Dream's footwork was incredible to watch. It was one of the things that started my love for great post players.

[baseline bum]

The great thing is, as great as Horry was, even he couldn't get the Suns a championship.

:rollin

[baseline bum]

:lol

Yeah, Olajuwon is definitely the most creative scorer I have ever seen at the 4 or 5. About the only thing he couldn't do was hit the three. Otherwise, the pull-up J was good. He could face up and put the ball on the floor and easily blow by his man. Quick spins off the block and an unguardable baseline fadeaway off the spin that Jordan seemed to have copied in his later years. Great pivot moves that confused the hell out of whoever ad the misfortune of being in front of him. Then, you can't forget his famous offensive rebound and tip-in to steal game 1 of the 95 Finals in OT.

[whottt]

The thing is...Hakeem kicked everyone's ass at some point.


Kareem, Barkley, Malone, Shaq, Ewing, Drob, the entire Celtics frontline....he got everyone, and you can't really say any of them ever got him back. More importantly, he's like the only non-choker ever produced by the city of Houston(and it was a fierce battle that Houston almost won). All that said..he'd have fouled out if he'd had to guard Drob.



I do think Duncan is the guy whose game most resembles Hakeem's though...out of anyone who has ever played in this league.

[TDMVPDPOY]

only in the 2 yrs prime of hakeem kickd everybodys ass

but b4 that he was a fkn nobody, so they base it on 2 yrs of his prime like his been doing that his whoe career..... :(

[TD 21]

Duncan, Olajuwon, and O'Neal, are the three best big men of the past 25 years. The previous 25 years it was Abdul-Jabbar, Russell, and Chamberlain. Quite clearly, those are the six best big men of all-time.

Duncan is a better player than Olajuwon, though. Everyone raves about Olajuwon in 93-94 and 94-95, how he was the best player in the game. Duncan had his own huge seasons in 01-02 and 02-03, was the best player in the game for a longer stretch (you can bring up the fact that Olajuwon played in the Jordan era, but he wasn't even definitively number two throughout, you could have argued for Malone, and Barkley at times) has won two more championships, never been on a team that underacheived to the extent that the Olajuwon, Barkley, and Drexler led Rockets did, and overall has been the greater, more consistent winner of the two.

You can bring up Olajuwon's superior stats, but if you adjust for era, they're relatively even. Nobody today blocks 4 shots a game, and it's extremely rare for a big man to score upwards of 25 ppg. For sure, if Duncan had been selfish and stats obsessed he could have piled on a couple thousand more points.

[Lars]

but b4 that he was a fkn nobody, so they base it on 2 yrs of his prime like his been doing that his whoe career..... :(

You do know he was in the finals in 86 right, by beating out an incredible Laker team?

[whottt]

Yah Hakeem destroyed Kareem in 1986...although Ralph Sampson was the guy that hit the big shot, and that was an insane shot he hit.

Hakeem also destroyed the Celtics in those finals...his stats are absolutely sickening....however, his team still got it's butt kicked into the dirt by the Celts overall.


But Hakeem also dogged it as much as any star in the league...and never let it be overlooked that when he got his face busted, his team went on an 18 game winning streak without him.

[EricB]

Eh, its debatable.

Olajuwon was probobly the best center I ever saw play the game.

[The Franchise]

only in the 2 yrs prime of hakeem kickd everybodys ass

but b4 that he was a fkn nobody, so they base it on 2 yrs of his prime like his been doing that his whoe career..... :(

You sure you want to stick by this ridiculous comment? :lol

[ambchang]

As an individual player, I would take Olajuwon over Duncan. Olajuwon had better low post moves, played better individual defense, can handle the ball well, and can do whatever Duncan could do, only better.

As a team player, I would take Duncan over Olajuwon, but only by a slight margin. I felt that Duncan could read the defense better, understand the angles of the game better (especially later on in his career), is a better passer, and is amount even with the Dream on team defense.

There are a lot of people here who disses Olajuwon and say that he only had a two year peak, but that is not true, he was dominant individually from his rookie season all the way to 96, 97, but he didn't have the exact kind of team around him that would make him successful (ie, no shooters). It was pretty much the same situation with Robinson before Duncan came along, only Robinson carried his team to more wins, and with a worse supporting cast.

[whottt]

Duncan's never tanked it due contract issues and whatnot, which Hakeem did several times, he also hasn't ever tried to squeeze every last penny out of the Spurs like Hakeem did.


Duncan is 10 times the leader and team player Hakeem was.

Duncan has never been the cause of a single chemistry issue on the Spurs, whereas Hakeem was the cause of several of them on the Rockets.


What Hakeem could do, possibly better than any bigman to ever play the game, was score on double and triple teams...this is not to say he could dominate them, but they didn't stop him as effectively as they did most players....and it's obvious why when you watch some of the shots he could get off. Duncan could handle them better than most bigmen to ever play the game, but Hakeem was the best at it that I have seen.

[lebomb]

I thought Tim is a power forward?

[coyotes_geek]

Hakeem's peak > Duncan's peak.

Duncan's career > Hakeem's career.

[ambchang]

While I agree that Tim has won more than Hakeem and Shaq, I find the arrival to that conclusion troubling to say the least.

Saying both Duncan and Olajuwon swept teams in the finals, but Hakeem did it against better competition, thus Hakeem > Duncan in talent is troublesome. Their competition had nothing to do with how talented they are, and it speaks to the makeup of their respective teams and those of the opposition a lot more. This is not an individual game, but a team game.

Shaq really wasn't much of a winner without some of the best guards in the history of the league, along with some of the greatest coaches in the history of the league. Hakeem won with Rudy Tomjonavich. Rudy, while a great person and one who pretty much popularized the inside out offense, was not on the same level as Phil Jackson or Pat Riley, and Clyde Drexler, as good as anyone during his prime, was no where close to as good as Kobe and Wade when they won their respective championships.

[lefty]

I love Timmy, but .........


Hakeem FTW

[whottt]

ambchang is right...when I was saying Hakeem got all of those guys, I wasn't necessarily talking about actually beating them in a series, he lost to the Jazz himself, so in that sense they did get him back...I was talking about he gave them a statistical ass kicking. His stats from the 86 finals are ungodly...and he still lost badly.


You cannot give indivudals credit for teams achievements...at least not when you are talking superstars, because they didn't all play on equally good teams. I think championships won are a much better judge of role players than Superstars...

The only sort of team achievement you can judge superstars by is whether or not they got their team to the playoffs, the one thing any player deserving of the title superstar should be able to do. This is not to say teamates don't help make the playoffs of course, but one man can carry a team to the playoffs, and his impact on a game to game basis is more easy to discern in the regular seaon when teams don't attempt to take away the teams best player or keep him from making his teamates better by taking them away, every single game. There is no player in NBA history that won a championship pretty much by himself...there are however teams that made the playoffs due to one man...happens all the time in fact. Championships by Superstars are more often influenced by the changes in the supporting cast around them than the changing of the actual superstars themselves.


Or to put it another way, Robert Horry >>>>>>>>> Matt Bonner, and I feel genuinely sorry for those that cannot tell the difference.


I know, I know...Robert Horry played with Hakeem, Shaq....and Tim Duncan, and Matt Bonner didn't.

[BWS-1994]

Sad that I won't get the chance to see said game here in Manila.

"The Dream" was really memorable as I started following the NBA in 1995 when DRob faced him...

[tmtcsc]

:lol

Don't get me wrong, Hakeem had great low post moves but I always felt he was a PF playing Center while Tim is a Center playing PF... If that makes sense.

Tim's on the downside of his career but he was and still is a tremendous player. Hakeem had some health issues that kept him from being consistently great. I'll never forget seeing him play for Toronto. That was sad.

[duncan228]

A little more about the game.

NBA-PBA duel erupts at the Big Dome (http://sports.inquirer.net/sportsevents/sportsevents/view/20090911-224628/NBA-PBA-duel-erupts-at-the-Big-Dome)
Filipinos ready for battle
By Musong R. Castillo
Philippine Daily Inquirer

MANILA, Philippines - Does Dominique Wilkins still have some spring in those legs to show the Filipinos what the “Human Highlight Reel” is all about?

“Big Shot Bob” was the name Tim Duncan gave Robert Horry, who has seven championships in the National Basketball Association. Question is: Will the NBA-PBA Legends clash even be close to require his heroics?

Vlade Divac was known as one of the headiest centers in his NBA generation, and at 7:30 Friday, the 7-foot-2 Serb, slowed down by age and excess poundage after retirement, will no doubt play it wise against his PBA counterparts.

And Tim Hardaway, widely regarded to be the inventor of the crossover dribble, should be the fittest and most exciting from among the ex-NBA stars who will lock horns with the PBA at the Araneta Coliseum in Cubao.

The biggest NBA scorer of them all—Kareem Abdul-Jabbar—made the trip, but won’t be seeing action. He will help Rory White call the shots against the PBA team, which will be led by two of the biggest legends of its own in Alvin Patrimonio and Allan Caidic.

“Come and watch, it’s going to be fun and exciting,” said Wilkins, a two-time Slam Dunk champion and the biggest NBA star to play here since Shaquille O’Neal last decade.

The NBA Legends will be beefed up by young talents coming from the D-League, including former PBA import Billy Thomas. The others are Derrick Dial, Marcus Habbard, Chris Ellis, Lanny Smith and Russell Robinson.

Aside from Patrimonio and Caidic, Ronnie Magsanoc, Benjie Paras and Kenneth Durem-des are the other legends in the PBA roster.

They will be joined by Wynne Arboleda, Dondon Hontiveros, Marc Pingris, Jay-R Reyes, Arwind Santos, Asi Taulava, Sonny Thoss, Rico Villanueva and Joseph Yeo with national coach Yeng Guiao calling the shots.

“We prepared as hard as we can in the short time we had to practice. I do think we can give them a good fight while making the game fun and enjoyable at the same time,” Guiao said.

Speed is key

A day before the historic match, Coach White also told INQUIRER.net that he is looking forward in giving the audience the NBA experience.

“I know that basketball here is really good. You have very quick players here. It’s gonna be a challenge for us,” said White.

“They’re small but they can use their quickness and get to the basket real easy and I’m sure that’s what they’re going to do to beat our players up and down the floor because as you know, we’re bigger,” he added, referring to the Philippine squad.

Jabbar, meanwhile, talked about the importance of basketball fundamentals.

“If you start playing basketball competitively at a young age, you develop instincts about the game and you have the understanding of the game. Then, it becomes your second nature,” the Lakers legend said in an interview.

[kingmalaki]

So both Horry and Elie say Hakeem was the best. Interesting....

[poop]

hakeem...was the best. hes the only big id ever take over Duncan. Tim was unstoppable, a complete player during his first couple years but after his injury he lost a bit of quickness and jumping ability that he never got back. Hakeem was indescribably, what he did to such big-name competition. he was unstoppable on defense and offensively he could do it ALL. Duncan matched him (only on to do so ever IMO) from 98-2000) but overall hakeem was the most talented big ever IMO.

[Lars]

This is an interesting thread because the last Duncan v Hakeem thread was bitterly split. What changed?

[EricB]

I'm gonna check out Horry's resteraunt on monday in SA.

It sounds good, hopefully it is. :)

[newacc]

Prime Duncan > Anybody

[poop]

Prime Duncan > Anybody

Prime duncan = prime Hakeem = Prime Jordan = >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone else

[DespЏrado]

Hakeem was amazing but honestly it is so even that the championship rings alone should be the deciding factor. Duncan and Hakeem each have such a perfect all around game that the only way for me to decide who I would start a team with would be to decide who has done it more and for longer. Duncan whether it be only due to better talent, gets the nod.

On purely subjective grounds I'm going to put it in terms of the following:

Talent.............Duncan = Hakeem
Longevity........Duncan > Hakeem
Team work......Duncan > Hakeem
Offense..........Duncan < Hakeem
handling the double team
....................Duncan < Hakeem
Help Defense...Duncan > Hakeem
Individual Defense
....................Duncan < Hakeem
Blocks............Duncan < Hakeem
Passing ........Duncan < Hakeem
Rebounding ....Duncan > Hakeem
Intangibles.....Duncan < Hakeem
Ships ...........Duncan > Hakeem
Leadership......Duncan > Hakeem
Face up moves
...................Duncan > Hakeem
Pivot Moves
...................Duncan < Hakeem
Clutchness.....Duncan > Hakeem
Versatility .....Duncan > Hakeem
Footwork ......Duncan < Hakeem

TOTAL : 9 Duncan to 8 Hakeem
(duncan would have 10 if I added 3 point shooting.)

[whottt]

This is an interesting thread because the last Duncan v Hakeem thread was bitterly split. What changed?

Let me tell you why the RocketFans get the reception here that they do....

#1. Discourtesy.

Rockets Fans are stupid and rude because they don't seem to understand that this specific forum is a Spurs forum, and we like Spurs players better than Rockets players. Rockets fans are bunch of fuck sticks that come over here and jock Hakeem and impinge upon us being Spurs fans.

We are not over at clutch city arguing the greatness of Duncan or Robinson, we are in our own forum, celebrating on our own players.


Yes we know SpursTalk is superior to any Rocketbaord in existence...but it's not our fault you guys are shitty fans and have shitty boards. It's your fault.

It is annoying that you make your problem our problem,.

It is extremely annoying when you do it when one of our players is going into the HOF.

For instance, the complete and total FuckWad known as King Malaki...this guy has been showing up here for 7 fucking years with his stupid fucking arguments, he showed up here when Drob retired. He showed up here now when he's going into the HOF, with his stupid fucking uninsightful arguments.

And it is rude and stupid.


#2. Stupidity.


Rockets fans bring the stupidest arguments on Hakeem's behalf it is humanly possible to have. They get dismantled because they are easy to dismantle and those behind the arguments have little or no knowledge of the game and it is blindingly apparent to just about every regular poster here. And most of the time it is obvious that the Spurs fans probably saw Hakeem play more than the Rockets Fans.

Do you guys realize you are a fanbase that celebrates Tracy MaGrady? Do you know how pathetic that makes you appear to every other fanbase in the NBA?



#3. Cowardice

I don't know that I have ever seen a RocketFan arguing Hakeem was better than Shaq at any Lakersboard. It's like you guys come here as big ole Houston and try to bully small market SA...but you are too big of pussies to go argue on your guy's behalf on Lakersboards. It's like ya'll are just media extensions...toeing the media perception of players. Hakeem kicked David's ass exactly as the media claimed. Shaq is better than Hakeem exactly as the media claims. And that is exactly the way your arguments come off when you guys are put to the test as well.

It's like somehow you'll get a self esteem boost if you get Hakeem some credit on a Spurs board, but you don't realize how badly you come off as bottom dwellers...why don't you fucksticks take this shit to Lakers boards and be big fish?


Because I am still waiting for proof Shaq is better than Hakeem, outside of media hype. Dude kicked Shaq's ass off the court in the NBA finals. And unlike the matchups with Duncan with Shaq, and Hakeem VS Robinson, Hakeem was the guy defending Shaq all by himself in those finals and Shaq was defending Hakeem. And fucking Shaq got s-----------wwwwwwwwwwwwwept. And he had a good fucking team with NBA championship teamates that had no holes in it.


Why don't you pathetic dumbfucks go get your validation from the bigboys instead of insignificant little SA?


Pussies.




I realize you are surprised to see Spurs fans involved in an intelligent discourse regarding Hakeem and actually acknowledging what a great player he was....this has always been the case, the reason you did not know it is because you came here operating under a stupid perception about us being unwilling to give a player the credit he is due...I suspect it's because you guys yourself that come over to have the arguments to get your esteem boost, are unwlling to give players the credit they are due.

IOW, you really shouldn't be suprised...I've argued against the stupid 95 finals argument Hakeem VS Drob for as long as I can remember...but you will never see a list by me in which Duncan or Robinson, or Shaq, rank over Hakeem...because no matter what I think would have been different if a few players were switched, or if Hakeem met Duncan in their primes...

The reality is Hakeem kicked everyone's ass at some point, whether his team won or not. Any single guy of his era that played in the post, Hakeem kicked their ass at some point. Barkley, Kareem, Malone, Shaq, Drob, Ewing etc...

However, not Tim Duncan. Let's just make that clear.




You guys are despicable to me, because you are small timing it with San Antonio, when you guys should be arguing for Hakeem against Kareem and Shaq...since he kicked both of their fucking ass off the court...and old and young arguments do not work...

Because he was young when he kicked Kareem's old ass off the court, and he was old when he kicked Shaq'a young ass off the court.


Mind controlled pussies....you aren't doing shit over here...you're just media extensions arguing the greatness of your guy only to the extent the media tells you you can. Which means you are either new to the game, or completley stupid.

If that weren't the case and you guys really knew what the fuck you were talking about...you'd be over at Lakersground and wouldn't even pay attention to Spursfans.


There is your reality.


PS: Hakeem couldn't guard Drob one on one any better than David could guard Hakeem, but David was the guy that could draw the fouls and put an ass on a bench, the absolute best kind of defense there is. That is the true lockdown defense. And David could do it to any bigman in the league that had to guard him. Fortunately for Hakeem he never had to guard David in the same fashion David had to guard Hakeem...and he had teamates that punished any team that doubled him...the most prolific 3 point shooting team in NBA history, and they just so happened to be clutch.



PSS: Duncan's got more rings, and his teams were basically constructed just like Hakeem's were, right down to some of the same supporting players...I am surprised Rockets fans never see this....And Duncan has given an ass kicking to just about every bigman of his era as well.

I will tell you this...it is a mistake to judge Duncan entirely by stats. Which is the only type of argument Hakeem can win against Duncan because Duncan can stick that finals MVP and NBA championship argument, which is the only one Rocketfan ever uses, up RocketFan asses all day long. Duncan has never had the stats that the C's of that era had or even of this era...but he has a quiet unyielding detemination to win and unlike he Hakeem, Duncan always wants to win, his contract is never an issue, his teamates are never an issue, it being the regular season is never an issue, his disputes with his owner are never an issue, him not getting the ball enough is never an issue.





To sum all this up...it's not so much about us as it is about you guys and your stupid, weak, unknowledgable Pro-Hakeem arguments and the rude fashion and times you present them. And yes, you guys deserve to be generalized.

[Lars]

I am not gonna lie to you and say I read all that because I didn't, but I am going to go ahead and guess that it is filled with stereotypes and bitterness.

[whottt]

Hakeem was amazing but honestly it is so even that the championship rings alone should be the deciding factor. Duncan and Hakeem each have such a perfect all around game that the only way for me to decide who I would start a team with would be to decide who has done it more and for longer. Duncan whether it be only due to better talent, gets the nod.

On purely subjective grounds I'm going to put it in terms of the following:


Passiing.........Duncan < Hakeem
I can't figure out how you got that...it's certainly not in the stats, it's not in anything in my memory either. Duncan's much better at picking apart a defense than Hakeem was. And he averages more assists per game too...by a significant amount. And both of them turned it over a lot.



Intangibles.....Duncan < Hakeem


And I really don't understand how you arrived at this one. Duncan has got more intangibles that just about anyone. It's what makes him Duncan...it's certainly not his statistical dominance or being the best in the league at any one thing(other than maybe scoring on the block)

[whottt]

I am not gonna lie to you and say I read all that because I didn't, but I am going to go ahead and guess that it is filled with stereotypes and bitterness.

You asked....see how rude you are?

[wekko368]

On purely subjective grounds I'm going to put it in terms of the following:

Talent.............Duncan = Hakeem

Disagree...Olajuwon's speed and athleticism far exceeded that of Duncan. Lets not forget he was capable of chasing down opposing guards on fast breaks.



Team work......Duncan > Hakeem

Disagree...Olajuwon led a squad of above average role players to the championship in 1994. That's the definition of being a team player.



Help Defense...Duncan > Hakeem

Please explain how Olajuwon, the league's all-time leading shot blocker, was an inferior help defender to Duncan.




Ships ...........Duncan > Hakeem
Clutchness.....Duncan > Hakeem
Versatility .....Duncan > Hakeem


First of all, the number of championships each player has is irrelevant when comparing them individually. Why should Olajuwon be penalized because he was surrounded by Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell instead of Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili?

I think a better indicator would be if they still had the same number of championships if they switched teams. I think Olajuwon would've won titles with Duncan's supporting cast, but I doubt that Duncan could've led Olajuwon's 1994 supporting cast to a title.

In regards to clutchness, don't forget that Olajuwon was usually the Rockets #1 option down the stretch. And let's not forget his defensive clutchness as well. Do you remember his game saving fingertip block against John Starks in the 1994 finals?

In regards to versatility, Olajuwon is widely considered one of the best two-way big men to ever play. Duncan has never had that distinction. You can't get more versatile than that.

[wekko368]

Duncan's much better at picking apart a defense than Hakeem was. And he averages more assists per game too...by a significant amount.

Ever heard of the term "hockey assist"? That's how Olajuwon contributed to his three point shooters.

[Lars]

You asked....see how rude you are?

You honestly expect me to read all that when you write things like

"Yes we know SpursTalk is superior to any Rocketbaord in existence...but it's not our fault you guys are shitty fans and have shitty boards. It's your fault"

under the discourteous section? Give me a break.

[whottt]

You honestly expect me to read all that when you write things like

"Yes we know SpursTalk is superior to any Rocketbaord in existence...but it's not our fault you guys are shitty fans and have shitty boards. It's your fault"

under the discourteous section? Give me a break.

You know of a Rocket board that's better?

If so why are you here?

Link please...

[wekko368]

You know of a Rocket board that's better?

If so why are you here?

Link please...

It is possible to be a fan of multiple players and teams. Try not to derail the thread.

[whottt]

It is possible to be a fan of multiple players and teams. Try not to derail the thread.

Link?

[Rummpd]

All I can say is a team of Dream and Tim in their primes would have been arguebly the best two some of big man on the same team ever - these two could do it all and would have surely complimented each other very well (I cannot deny that a healthy Bill Walton, Shaq, Chamberlain* David Robinson or Bill Russell in the post with either of the two would be other great options) and both have a lot of character and game.

The Dream was more athletic than Tim, Tim was dominant longer at the championship level and both were intense and cerebral so to me these are both top ten players ever in the HX of the game.

*He led the league in assists one year just to show he could and also had a season where he played every minute of every game and I believe if Chamberlain had played with another big great man in his career the history books would have been changed on the Celtics/Russell domination over him.

[ambchang]

Disagree...Olajuwon's speed and athleticism far exceeded that of Duncan. Lets not forget he was capable of chasing down opposing guards on fast breaks.



Disagree...Olajuwon led a squad of above average role players to the championship in 1994. That's the definition of being a team player.



Please explain how Olajuwon, the league's all-time leading shot blocker, was an inferior help defender to Duncan.




First of all, the number of championships each player has is irrelevant when comparing them individually. Why should Olajuwon be penalized because he was surrounded by Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell instead of Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili?

I think a better indicator would be if they still had the same number of championships if they switched teams. I think Olajuwon would've won titles with Duncan's supporting cast, but I doubt that Duncan could've led Olajuwon's 1994 supporting cast to a title.

In regards to clutchness, don't forget that Olajuwon was usually the Rockets #1 option down the stretch. And let's not forget his defensive clutchness as well. Do you remember his game saving fingertip block against John Starks in the 1994 finals?

In regards to versatility, Olajuwon is widely considered one of the best two-way big men to ever play. Duncan has never had that distinction. You can't get more versatile than that.

Great seeing that you haven't argued any of the Duncan < Hakeem points.
So in your mind, Hakeem is better than Duncan in every single meaningful comparison?

[ambchang]

So both Horry and Elie say Hakeem was the best. Interesting....

So both Horry and Elie won their first championship with Hakeem ... interesting.

[wekko368]

Great seeing that you haven't argued any of the Duncan < Hakeem points.
So in your mind, Hakeem is better than Duncan in every single meaningful comparison?

OP said that Olajuwon had better offense, handling the double team, individual defense, blocks, passing, intangibles, pivot moves, and footwork.

The only one that I disagree with is passing. At most, I'd set them at equal.

[Sec24Row7]

Whottt that was a pretty amazing ass beating... I read it... but if you could have like summed it up into say 4 sentences... they might have actually been able to finish it...

You can't expect "ego stroking media sheep" to read like 9 paragraphs...

[duhoh]

The thing is...Hakeem kicked everyone's ass at some point.


Kareem, Barkley, Malone, Shaq, Ewing, Drob, the entire Celtics frontline....he got everyone, and you can't really say any of them ever got him back. More importantly, he's like the only non-choker ever produced by the city of Houston(and it was a fierce battle that Houston almost won). All that said..he'd have fouled out if he'd had to guard Drob.



I do think Duncan is the guy whose game most resembles Hakeem's though...out of anyone who has ever played in this league.

that first year of their back to back D-Rob got murdered trying to guard Hakeem. that was hard to watch.

in fact yall can YouTube "Hakeem owns D-Rob" or something like that.

[kingmalaki]

So both Horry and Elie won their first championship with Hakeem ... interesting.

That could be their underlying reasoning, or maybe they just actually think Hakeem is better. I'll just decide to believe what they say instead of trying to assume why they said it.

[JBIIRockets]

Duncan's got Hakeem in one area.....longevity. Duncan was better, longer.

For you youngsters out there. Hakeem scored 25 points in the 1st half against the 86 Celtics front line in Game 1 of the Finals. To do that against Boston, in the Garden, is unbelievable. Hakeem was not a nobody for all but 2 years.

[Brazil]

Let me tell you why the RocketFans get the reception here that they do....

#1. Discourtesy.

Rockets Fans are stupid and rude because they don't seem to understand that this specific forum is a Spurs forum, and we like Spurs players better than Rockets players. Rockets fans are bunch of fuck sticks that come over here and jock Hakeem and impinge upon us being Spurs fans.

We are not over at clutch city arguing the greatness of Duncan or Robinson, we are in our own forum, celebrating on our own players.


Yes we know SpursTalk is superior to any Rocketbaord in existence...but it's not our fault you guys are shitty fans and have shitty boards. It's your fault.

It is annoying that you make your problem our problem,.

It is extremely annoying when you do it when one of our players is going into the HOF.

For instance, the complete and total FuckWad known as King Malaki...this guy has been showing up here for 7 fucking years with his stupid fucking arguments, he showed up here when Drob retired. He showed up here now when he's going into the HOF, with his stupid fucking uninsightful arguments.

And it is rude and stupid.


#2. Stupidity.


Rockets fans bring the stupidest arguments on Hakeem's behalf it is humanly possible to have. They get dismantled because they are easy to dismantle and those behind the arguments have little or no knowledge of the game and it is blindingly apparent to just about every regular poster here. And most of the time it is obvious that the Spurs fans probably saw Hakeem play more than the Rockets Fans.

Do you guys realize you are a fanbase that celebrates Tracy MaGrady? Do you know how pathetic that makes you appear to every other fanbase in the NBA?



#3. Cowardice

I don't know that I have ever seen a RocketFan arguing Hakeem was better than Shaq at any Lakersboard. It's like you guys come here as big ole Houston and try to bully small market SA...but you are too big of pussies to go argue on your guy's behalf on Lakersboards. It's like ya'll are just media extensions...toeing the media perception of players. Hakeem kicked David's ass exactly as the media claimed. Shaq is better than Hakeem exactly as the media claims. And that is exactly the way your arguments come off when you guys are put to the test as well.

It's like somehow you'll get a self esteem boost if you get Hakeem some credit on a Spurs board, but you don't realize how badly you come off as bottom dwellers...why don't you fucksticks take this shit to Lakers boards and be big fish?


Because I am still waiting for proof Shaq is better than Hakeem, outside of media hype. Dude kicked Shaq's ass off the court in the NBA finals. And unlike the matchups with Duncan with Shaq, and Hakeem VS Robinson, Hakeem was the guy defending Shaq all by himself in those finals and Shaq was defending Hakeem. And fucking Shaq got s-----------wwwwwwwwwwwwwept. And he had a good fucking team with NBA championship teamates that had no holes in it.


Why don't you pathetic dumbfucks go get your validation from the bigboys instead of insignificant little SA?


Pussies.




I realize you are surprised to see Spurs fans involved in an intelligent discourse regarding Hakeem and actually acknowledging what a great player he was....this has always been the case, the reason you did not know it is because you came here operating under a stupid perception about us being unwilling to give a player the credit he is due...I suspect it's because you guys yourself that come over to have the arguments to get your esteem boost, are unwlling to give players the credit they are due.

IOW, you really shouldn't be suprised...I've argued against the stupid 95 finals argument Hakeem VS Drob for as long as I can remember...but you will never see a list by me in which Duncan or Robinson, or Shaq, rank over Hakeem...because no matter what I think would have been different if a few players were switched, or if Hakeem met Duncan in their primes...

The reality is Hakeem kicked everyone's ass at some point, whether his team won or not. Any single guy of his era that played in the post, Hakeem kicked their ass at some point. Barkley, Kareem, Malone, Shaq, Drob, Ewing etc...

However, not Tim Duncan. Let's just make that clear.




You guys are despicable to me, because you are small timing it with San Antonio, when you guys should be arguing for Hakeem against Kareem and Shaq...since he kicked both of their fucking ass off the court...and old and young arguments do not work...

Because he was young when he kicked Kareem's old ass off the court, and he was old when he kicked Shaq'a young ass off the court.


Mind controlled pussies....you aren't doing shit over here...you're just media extensions arguing the greatness of your guy only to the extent the media tells you you can. Which means you are either new to the game, or completley stupid.

If that weren't the case and you guys really knew what the fuck you were talking about...you'd be over at Lakersground and wouldn't even pay attention to Spursfans.


There is your reality.


PS: Hakeem couldn't guard Drob one on one any better than David could guard Hakeem, but David was the guy that could draw the fouls and put an ass on a bench, the absolute best kind of defense there is. That is the true lockdown defense. And David could do it to any bigman in the league that had to guard him. Fortunately for Hakeem he never had to guard David in the same fashion David had to guard Hakeem...and he had teamates that punished any team that doubled him...the most prolific 3 point shooting team in NBA history, and they just so happened to be clutch.



PSS: Duncan's got more rings, and his teams were basically constructed just like Hakeem's were, right down to some of the same supporting players...I am surprised Rockets fans never see this....And Duncan has given an ass kicking to just about every bigman of his era as well.

I will tell you this...it is a mistake to judge Duncan entirely by stats. Which is the only type of argument Hakeem can win against Duncan because Duncan can stick that finals MVP and NBA championship argument, which is the only one Rocketfan ever uses, up RocketFan asses all day long. Duncan has never had the stats that the C's of that era had or even of this era...but he has a quiet unyielding detemination to win and unlike he Hakeem, Duncan always wants to win, his contract is never an issue, his teamates are never an issue, it being the regular season is never an issue, his disputes with his owner are never an issue, him not getting the ball enough is never an issue.





To sum all this up...it's not so much about us as it is about you guys and your stupid, weak, unknowledgable Pro-Hakeem arguments and the rude fashion and times you present them. And yes, you guys deserve to be generalized.

Contrary to "I am not gonna lie to you and say I read all that because I didn't, but I am going to go ahead and guess that it is filled with stereotypes and bitterness." guy, I read it all and I confess that I loved it ! I feel dirty for that but I loved it :toast

[wekko368]

PS: Hakeem couldn't guard Drob one on one any better than David could guard Hakeem

The 1995 playoffs disproves this notion.



PSS: Duncan's got more rings, and his teams were basically constructed just like Hakeem's were, right down to some of the same supporting players...I am surprised Rockets fans never see this....

Rockets fans don't see this because its inaccurate. Kenny Smith and Tony Parker are entirely different point guards, and the championship Rockets didn't use the twin towers strategy like the Spurs did in their early titles.

[EricB]

The 1995 playoffs disproves this notion.

DRob got his numbers in that series too fuckstick re look em up.

[EricB]

and the championship Rockets didn't use the twin towers strategy like the Spurs did in their early titles

Yeah that 6'11 Otis Thorpe was practically a point guard.

[wekko368]

Yeah that 6'11 Otis Thorpe was practically a point guard.

Otis Thorpe was 6'9 and averaged about 11 ppg & 10 rpg in the 93-94 playoffs....in other words, a prototypical power forward. He was as close to being a point guard as he was to being half of a "twin towers" model.

[EricB]

Otis Thorpe was 6'9 and averaged about 11 ppg & 10 rpg in the 93-94 playoffs....in other words, a prototypical power forward. He was as close to being a point guard as he was to being half of a "twin towers" model.

If Otis thorpe was 6'9 The Hakeem was 6'9/

They were both the same height.

[wekko368]

If Otis thorpe was 6'9 The Hakeem was 6'9/

They were both the same height.

Olajuwon was actually about 6'10.

[wekko368]

DRob got his numbers in that series too fuckstick re look em up.

In the entire 1995 western conference finals, Olajuwon had 69 more points, 7 more rebounds, 8 more blocks, 3 fewer steals, and 14 more assists than Robinson.