dirk is better than duncan

[Dr Cox]

or that is what my friend says


we had a drunken arguement after the tech game last week and all he could say is that dirk is the best powerforward in the nba...(and is better than duncan was in his prime)

His arguements on why dirk is better:

1. duncan had help on his teams then dirk ever did (that means the rings arnt as big of a deal cuz dirk is on worse teams)
2. always scored more and is on the nba 1st team this year and last year,
3. he knows dirk sucks at D, but he said "duncan was good but played above average Defense, nuthing more":ihit (that one pissed me off)


i told him that both of there first years of eligibility for the HOF i could see dirk not getting picked, and duncan for sure no matter what being picked



how do you argue his points? spurs teams (for the most part have been better than mavs teams)
how do you argue that tim is better?

[Muser]

I don't need to argue these point, saying Duncans Defense is "only above average" makes his points invalid.

[exstatic]

Don't argue with drunk Mavs fans. Championships trump all. It's not about how much help you have, it's about how much better you make the players around you.

[spursfan1000]

Woah, after I read him saying Duncan D above average I stoped reading, you sure you want to waste your time on this guy. Also Duncan is 2 years older than Dirk and dosen't have to do as much these days, and Dirk is the #1 option. Dirk is the better player right now, but Duncan in prime. If you put Duncan 2 years ago at Dirk's age I would say Duncan is better.

[portnoy1]

Duncan over Dirk anyday. 3 Times Timmy has lead his team to the finals and 3 Times he won Finals MVP. Dirk took his team to the Finals once and CHOKED bigtime considering they had a 2-0 series lead and then a lead in game 3. Dirk can shoot 3's, but the funny thing is that Duncan can to, he just chooses to do his damage in the post like real Bigmen do. Dirk has no post moves, Duncan takes from Mchale/Olajuwon 2 unstoppable bigmen in the paint. They say Bird is the best comparison to Dirk. However Dirk is more physically capable. Bird used his head to the full to make up for anything he lacked. Thats BB IQ for ya' . Larry Bird Cant Run cant jump oh yeah and cant be stopped.

[Texas_Ranger]

Your friend is stupid.

[Muser]

Duncan over Dirk anyday. 3 Times Timmy has lead his team to the finals and 3 Times he won Finals MVP. Dirk took his team to the Finals once and CHOKED bigtime considering they had a 2-0 series lead and then a lead in game 3. Dirk can shoot 3's, but the funny thing is that Duncan can to, he just chooses to do his damage in the post like real Bigmen do. Dirk has no post moves, Duncan takes from Mchale/Olajuwon 2 unstoppable bigmen in the paint. They say Bird is the best comparison to Dirk. However Dirk is more physically capable. Bird used his head to the full to make up for anything he lacked. Thats BB IQ for ya' . Larry Bird Cant Run cant jump oh yeah and cant be stopped.

Dirk is a much better 3 shooter than Duncan, give the man at least some credit.

[ulosturedge]

Dirk effects the game on the offense end of the court while Duncan effects the game on both ends of the court. Dirk can anchor an offense while Duncan anchors both an offense and a defense. And there is so much more to Duncan's game then there is with Dirk's that its not even funny. The fact that Dirk has been looking like the better player lately is cause Duncan was hobbled alot of last season while Dirk has been fresh.

If your asking who has been better through their entire career it's Duncan hands down, if your asking who is better right now it is pretty close(see duncan is hobbled).

[portnoy1]

Dirk is a much better 3 shooter than Duncan, give the man at least some credit.Well ofcourse he is a better 3pt shooter, But my point is that Duncan has that range. For some odd reason he doesn't take a step back behind the line. He can do it is my point though. Yes Dirk is better, but Duncan has that capability. Whereas all those post moves are out of Dirks league for the most part.

[TDMVPDPOY]

dirk had the 2nd best center ever in the nba on his team, name erica dampier...

while duncan had raslow....

[Spursfan092120]

lol @ one of the best defenders of all time being "only above average"

[duncan228]

"duncan was good but played above average Defense, nuthing more"

Defensive Rating

1997-98 NBA 95.3 (2)
1998-99 NBA 91.5 (3)
1999-00 NBA 94.6 (3)
2000-01 NBA 93.6 (4)
2001-02 NBA 95.7 (3)
2002-03 NBA 94.4 (2)
2003-04 NBA 88.5 (2)
2004-05 NBA 93.2 (1)
2005-06 NBA 94.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 94.4 (1)
2007-08 NBA 96.6 (2)
2008-09 NBA 100.2 (6)
Active 94.5 (2)
Career NBA 94.5 (3)
Career 94.5 (3)

Defensive Win Shares

1997-98 NBA 7.0 (1)
1998-99 NBA 4.7 (1)
1999-00 NBA 6.2 (3)
2000-01 NBA 6.9 (1)
2001-02 NBA 7.0 (2)
2002-03 NBA 6.9 (2)
2003-04 NBA 7.1 (3)
2004-05 NBA 5.6 (3)
2005-06 NBA 6.7 (1)
2006-07 NBA 6.6 (2)
2007-08 NBA 6.0 (4)
2008-09 NBA 4.9 (6)
Active 75.7 (1)
Career NBA 75.7 (9)
Career 75.7 (9)

NBA All-Defensive Teams

First: 8
Second: 4

[flipcritic]

Of course Dirk is better. Look at all of the league/finals MVPs he's won, the defensive accolades, the all-star/all-nba selections? How could Dirk not be better?






:D

[Phenomanul]

Defensive Rating

1997-98 NBA 95.3 (2)
1998-99 NBA 91.5 (3)
1999-00 NBA 94.6 (3)
2000-01 NBA 93.6 (4)
2001-02 NBA 95.7 (3)
2002-03 NBA 94.4 (2)
2003-04 NBA 88.5 (2)
2004-05 NBA 93.2 (1)
2005-06 NBA 94.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 94.4 (1)
2007-08 NBA 96.6 (2)
2008-09 NBA 100.2 (6)
Active 94.5 (2)
Career NBA 94.5 (3)
Career 94.5 (3)

Defensive Win Shares

1997-98 NBA 7.0 (1)
1998-99 NBA 4.7 (1)
1999-00 NBA 6.2 (3)
2000-01 NBA 6.9 (1)
2001-02 NBA 7.0 (2)
2002-03 NBA 6.9 (2)
2003-04 NBA 7.1 (3)
2004-05 NBA 5.6 (3)
2005-06 NBA 6.7 (1)
2006-07 NBA 6.6 (2)
2007-08 NBA 6.0 (4)
2008-09 NBA 4.9 (6)
Active 75.7 (1)
Career NBA 75.7 (9)
Career 75.7 (9)

NBA All-Defensive Teams

First: 8
Second: 4

/thread

[My Fault]

Is your friend Ghazi?

[monosylab1k]

Is your friend Ghazi?

:lol I was right about to post that.

[Sec24Row7]

Dirk is a first ballot hall of famer based just on what he has accomplished so far...


You don't win an MVP and not get into the hall the first time... sorry...

Even if B-Davis, Stephen Jackson, Jason Richardson and Biedrins own your ass in the first round...

[duncan228]

...on the nba 1st team this year and last year

Duncan All-NBA Teams:

First: 9 (8 in a row his first 8 seasons)
Second: 3

Dirk All-NBA Teams:

First: 4
Second: 3
Third: 2


BTW: Dirk has never made the All-Defensive Team.

[Duncan2177]

or that is what my friend says


we had a drunken arguement after the tech game last week and all he could say is that dirk is the best powerforward in the nba...(and is better than duncan was in his prime)

His arguements on why dirk is better:

1. duncan had help on his teams then dirk ever did (that means the rings arnt as big of a deal cuz dirk is on worse teams)
2. always scored more and is on the nba 1st team this year and last year,
3. he knows dirk sucks at D, but he said "duncan was good but played above average Defense, nuthing more":ihit (that one pissed me off)


i told him that both of there first years of eligibility for the HOF i could see dirk not getting picked, and duncan for sure no matter what being picked



how do you argue his points? spurs teams (for the most part have been better than mavs teams)
how do you argue that tim is better?

Tell your idiot friend he's full of shit.

[ManuTP9]

Duncan All-NBA Teams:

First: 9 (8 in a row his first 8 seasons)
Second: 3

Dirk All-NBA Teams:

First: 4
Second: 3
Third: 2


BTW: Dirk has never made the All-Defensive Team.

:tu

[FromWayDowntown]

Defensive Rating

1997-98 NBA 95.3 (2)
1998-99 NBA 91.5 (3)
1999-00 NBA 94.6 (3)
2000-01 NBA 93.6 (4)
2001-02 NBA 95.7 (3)
2002-03 NBA 94.4 (2)
2003-04 NBA 88.5 (2)
2004-05 NBA 93.2 (1)
2005-06 NBA 94.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 94.4 (1)
2007-08 NBA 96.6 (2)
2008-09 NBA 100.2 (6)
Active 94.5 (2)
Career NBA 94.5 (3)
Career 94.5 (3)

Defensive Win Shares

1997-98 NBA 7.0 (1)
1998-99 NBA 4.7 (1)
1999-00 NBA 6.2 (3)
2000-01 NBA 6.9 (1)
2001-02 NBA 7.0 (2)
2002-03 NBA 6.9 (2)
2003-04 NBA 7.1 (3)
2004-05 NBA 5.6 (3)
2005-06 NBA 6.7 (1)
2006-07 NBA 6.6 (2)
2007-08 NBA 6.0 (4)
2008-09 NBA 4.9 (6)
Active 75.7 (1)
Career NBA 75.7 (9)
Career 75.7 (9)

NBA All-Defensive Teams

First: 8
Second: 4

Just to be clear, the little number in parentheses next to each of those entries is his standing among all players on all teams in the NBA. While the metrics aren't conclusive proof of Duncan's defensive prowess, when 2 different metrics make him a top 10 defensive player in each of his professional seasons, saying he's just "above average" is pretty conclusively shown to be idiotic.

[timtonymanurich]

Dirk IS better than Tim Duncan ---- when it comes to being FUGLY!! Dirk is the stand-in for all the cavemen in the Geico commercials. Friggin Neanderthal.

[duncan228]

Just to be clear, the little number in parentheses next to each of those entries is his standing among all players on all teams in the NBA. While the metrics aren't conclusive proof of Duncan's defensive prowess, when 2 different metrics make him a top 10 defensive player in each of his professional seasons, saying he's just "above average" is pretty conclusively shown to be idiotic.

Thanks for clarification FWD.

Stats of any kind never tell the whole story, but I thought when dealing with an idiot it was best to bring out the numbers. :lol

[TIMMYD!]

Two Words. Four Rings.

[Leetonidas]

Tim Duncan won a championship without having any All-NBA teammates in 2003. 'Nuff said.

[angelbelow]

Dude just laugh and enjoy your buzz.

[dbreiden83080]

Dirk can't hold Duncan's jock. Any shot he had at a legacy ended when he looked like he'd rather crawl into a hole and die then take any shots, as 8 seeded GS was kicking the hell out of them in the playoffs..

[dbreiden83080]

3. he knows dirk sucks at D, but he said "duncan was good but played above average Defense, nuthing more":ihit (that one pissed me off)


Duncan is hands down one of the best defensive big men of all time..

[FromWayDowntown]

Two Words. Four Rings.

By that measure, Robert Horry, Steve Kerr, and Michael Cooper (among others) are better players than Tim Duncan.

I understand that point is exaggerated, but I think we sometimes get way too caught up in rings in comparing players. Rings mean something, but they don't mean everything. Charles Barkley and Karl Malone are among the very best players to ever play the game of basketball, whether they won rings or not. It would be a pretty ridiculous -- to me at least -- to argue that, say, Bill Laimbeer was a better player than either Barkley or Malone, just because Laimbeer has jewelry that Chuck and the Mailman don't.

[dbreiden83080]

By that measure, Robert Horry, Steve Kerr, and Michael Cooper (among others) are better players than Tim Duncan.

I understand that point is exaggerated, but I think we sometimes get way too caught up in rings in comparing players. Rings mean something, but they don't mean everything. Charles Barkley and Karl Malone are among the very best players to ever play the game of basketball, whether they won rings or not. It would be a pretty ridiculous -- to me at least -- to argue that, say, Bill Laimbeer was a better player than either Barkley or Malone, just because Laimbeer has jewelry that Chuck and the Mailman don't.

Steve Kerr wasn't the MVP/Best Player/Driving force behind any of his rings, like Duncan was for his 4. So when comparing him to Dirk, the ring argument works for me..

[lennyalderette]

Of course Dirk is better. Look at all of the league/finals MVPs he's won, the defensive accolades, the all-star/all-nba selections? How could Dirk not be better?
:downspin:





:D

[lennyalderette]

Dirk can't hold Duncan's jock. Any shot he had at a legacy ended when he looked like he'd rather crawl into a hole and die then take any shots, as 8 seeded GS was kicking the hell out of them in the playoffs..



i second that! good point i remember i kinda respected him (just a lil) but when his team is sucking he does nothing to stop it!! its not his fault god gave him a womans body that fag is so frail

[TIMMYD!]

Steve Kerr wasn't the MVP/Best Player/Driving force behind any of his rings, like Duncan was for his 4. So when comparing him to Dirk, the ring argument works for me..

Thank You.

[FromWayDowntown]

Steve Kerr wasn't the MVP/Best Player/Driving force behind any of his rings, like Duncan was for his 4. So when comparing him to Dirk, the ring argument works for me..

Like I said, the point concerning Kerr, Horry, and Cooper is exaggerated.

But the willingness to rely so heavily on titles is surely a recent phenomenon among Spurs fans. I remember a time when David Robinson's superiority to virtually any big man in basketball was never questioned, despite the fact that other big guys had rings and David didn't.

I think Duncan is a better player than Dirk. I think Duncan's titles are certainly evidence of his greatness. But if Duncan didn't have any titles and Dirk had 4, I'm not sure that everyone here would be arguing that Dirk was better.

[Shastafarian]

2. always scored more


Duncan averaged more PPG in 4 out of the 10 seasons they have both played in the NBA.

[BadOne]

Without adding flames to the rivalry with proud but empty statements, lets just look at the facts. Tim has led his team. He has always taken the blame, even when the fault truly wasn't his, yet never welcomed the credit alone. His spirit is one of true humility, and team first winning.

Dirk on the other hand has singled out other players when things didn't fly the Mavs way, even on his own team. Champions don't make excuses, they just find ways to win. Look at Tim [and the rest of the Spurs] when they were screwed out of so many series's due to bad calls. Never an excuse. Never a complaint. They just move forward at the same speed every year. The same speed Timmy runs at. Dirk is an outstanding player, there's no lie to that. He is one of the best shooters in the league, I dare say, in the history of the game. But when your 7 foot, and positioned at the PF spot, your team doesn't need a 7 ft shooting guard. It needs a Power Forward who will be agressive on the boards and primarily score in the post, or looking to pass to the open man while drawing double teams in the paint.

If it's whose a better shooter, than I think even Timmy would concede that title to Dirk. Yes Dirk puts up hellified offensive numbers because of this, but these numbers really say it all when it comes to who the better all around player is:


Defensive Rating

1997-98 NBA 95.3 (2)
1998-99 NBA 91.5 (3)
1999-00 NBA 94.6 (3)
2000-01 NBA 93.6 (4)
2001-02 NBA 95.7 (3)
2002-03 NBA 94.4 (2)
2003-04 NBA 88.5 (2)
2004-05 NBA 93.2 (1)
2005-06 NBA 94.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 94.4 (1)
2007-08 NBA 96.6 (2)
2008-09 NBA 100.2 (6)
Active 94.5 (2)
Career NBA 94.5 (3)
Career 94.5 (3)

Defensive Win Shares

1997-98 NBA 7.0 (1)
1998-99 NBA 4.7 (1)
1999-00 NBA 6.2 (3)
2000-01 NBA 6.9 (1)
2001-02 NBA 7.0 (2)
2002-03 NBA 6.9 (2)
2003-04 NBA 7.1 (3)
2004-05 NBA 5.6 (3)
2005-06 NBA 6.7 (1)
2006-07 NBA 6.6 (2)
2007-08 NBA 6.0 (4)
2008-09 NBA 4.9 (6)
Active 75.7 (1)
Career NBA 75.7 (9)
Career 75.7 (9)

NBA All-Defensive Teams

First: 8
Second: 4

As a player, Dirk can ball. Any true basketball fan should agree. But to say he's better than Tim Duncan? Sounds like empty trash talk from a rival team's fan. Nothing more. So while your friend is entitled to his opinion, numbers don't lie.

Peace,

-BadOne

[whottt]

This is just getting ridiculous...hopefully Kori will bust out the :ban: stick pretty soon.

The idiots are ruining this forum...get them.



Dirk better than Duncan? Sure...


Except for the fact that he can't rebound, defend, block shots, post up, or pass as well as Duncan...and as scorers they are a push. Dirk is a better FT and 3 shooter and Duncan is better at everything else.


Playoffs are 2-2
Duncan does have 4 rings, multiple MVP's, multiple all NBA D teams....geez.


Dirk should be a better passer considering how the Mavs use him...he's really not a very good passer at all.


Just be glad Pop has some sort of mental shortcircuit when it comes to the Mavs and Dirk and attempts to guard Dirk with a 2 guard that allows Dirk to put up Wilt like numbers against us...not only that, but he won't let anyone hit Dirk either, which is pretty obiously the easiest way to take him off his game.


So we guard Dirk without any physicality, with a smaller player...

And he still doesn't put anything comparable to the numbers Duncan does outside of PPG...and we get this?

:ban:

Dirk can't guard Duncan any better than Duncan can guard Dirk...and actully for all I know Duncan can guard Dirk Pop just doesn't want him picking up those fouls. Duncan murders Dirk when Dirk tries to guard him...


Dejuan Blair is going to get hisself some Dirk this season...you can count on that.

[jaffies]

Get better friends.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Your friend is a living epic fail. :lmao

Plenty of good points in this thread already, and it's pretty clear your friend doesn't understand basketball (defense wins games, as does leadership, and on both fronts Dirk isn't even in the same ballpark).

And let's not forget that in 2006 Dirk presided over the biggest choke job in recent Finals history. Timmy, OTOH, has four rings, and let's look at how he's done that - three words: consistently clutch performance.

Tim shits on Dirk's head from a dizzying height. They aren't historically comparable on any level, but if you have to compare them, Dirk is a very nice player, probably the best 7ft shooter the game has ever seen, but Duncan is an All-NBA-History player... first, second or third team is up to you, but he's top 15-of-All-Time.

Oh, and OP, if you are going with a handle like Dr Cox, you really should learn to rant like him, otherwise you're just playing yourself. :lmao

[xellos88330]

Where is the pic of Duncan laughing at Dirk riding a bike in a car side mirror? Love that pic.

[duncan228]

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/temp%20duncan/objects.jpg

[TDMVPDPOY]

cant believe this shit went to 2pages...fkn fail

[Galileo]

Defensive Rating

1997-98 NBA 95.3 (2)
1998-99 NBA 91.5 (3)
1999-00 NBA 94.6 (3)
2000-01 NBA 93.6 (4)
2001-02 NBA 95.7 (3)
2002-03 NBA 94.4 (2)
2003-04 NBA 88.5 (2)
2004-05 NBA 93.2 (1)
2005-06 NBA 94.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 94.4 (1)
2007-08 NBA 96.6 (2)
2008-09 NBA 100.2 (6)
Active 94.5 (2)
Career NBA 94.5 (3)
Career 94.5 (3)

Defensive Win Shares

1997-98 NBA 7.0 (1)
1998-99 NBA 4.7 (1)
1999-00 NBA 6.2 (3)
2000-01 NBA 6.9 (1)
2001-02 NBA 7.0 (2)
2002-03 NBA 6.9 (2)
2003-04 NBA 7.1 (3)
2004-05 NBA 5.6 (3)
2005-06 NBA 6.7 (1)
2006-07 NBA 6.6 (2)
2007-08 NBA 6.0 (4)
2008-09 NBA 4.9 (6)
Active 75.7 (1)
Career NBA 75.7 (9)
Career 75.7 (9)

NBA All-Defensive Teams

First: 8
Second: 4

Good work on the stats.

[greyforest]

does anyone remember a video of tim where he's playing some terrible chinese basketball video game? he picks himself and his character has like a defense rating of 1/5. his reaction was pretty classic...

that video needs to go here

[TDMVPDPOY]

fuck dirk

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/945/joggerbiker959copy.jpg

[DaBears]

There is a reason why NBA players past & present say TIM DUNCAN is the Best POWER FORWARD of ALL TIME........... Not once have i ever heard it mentioned that Dirk is the best, for that matter even mentioned in same sentence......... I will take the words of professionals who actually played the game over a drunken fan of the game anyday.....

Enough said.............

[hater]

why are we comparing a 7 foot PF/C to a 7 foot SG?

[greyforest]

does anyone remember a video of tim where he's playing some terrible chinese basketball video game? he picks himself and his character has like a defense rating of 1/5. his reaction was pretty classic...

that video needs to go here

quotin cuase i really wanna see this vid

[Dr Cox]

thanks for teh help guys...ill make sure to let him know...

i talked to him again about it this weekend and he said ok maby he is better than i said at D but dirk is still the best powerforward to ever play...



hes dumb

[Spurm]

or that is what my friend says


we had a drunken arguement after the tech game last week and all he could say is that dirk is the best powerforward in the nba...(and is better than duncan was in his prime)

His arguements on why dirk is better:

1. duncan had help on his teams then dirk ever did (that means the rings arnt as big of a deal cuz dirk is on worse teams)
2. always scored more and is on the nba 1st team this year and last year,
3. he knows dirk sucks at D, but he said "duncan was good but played above average Defense, nuthing more":ihit (that one pissed me off)


i told him that both of there first years of eligibility for the HOF i could see dirk not getting picked, and duncan for sure no matter what being picked



how do you argue his points? spurs teams (for the most part have been better than mavs teams)
how do you argue that tim is better?
Dirk is better than the tin man enough said!