White House takes a dump...

[Yonivore]

Friday Night News & Policy Dump, that is.

Administration abandons six-party talks; capitulates to NKorea... (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09/us-shifts-policy-willing-to-meet-1on1-with-north-korea.html)
This was a stupid idea when Kerry proposed it...it remains so.

Agrees verification needed to ensure illegals don't receive healthcare benefits... (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/11/2065287.aspx)
Hmmm...having to go back and ensure illegals don't receive care must mean Wilson was right; illegal aliens would have received health care under ObamaCare.

Census bureau cuts ties with ACORN... (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9ALCUJO0&show_article=1)
An entire organization goes under the bus. It may take longer to tuck them under there than it did when he was tossing 'em under there, one person at a time.

Obama Opts for Import Tariffs on Chinese Tires... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/11/AR2009091103957_pf.html)
This will end well.

[SouthernFried]

ACORN's involvement in the CENSUS was a major concern for me. The implications were incredibly far reaching. This is very good news indeed.

[Wild Cobra]

ACORN's involvement in the CENSUS was a major concern for me. The implications were incredibly far reaching. This is very good news indeed.
Same here. It's real scary how bold these fascists are getting.

[SnakeBoy]

Obama Opts for Import Tariffs on Chinese Tires... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/11/AR2009091103957_pf.html)
This will end well.

Great. I don't like the guy but maybe I should get his book...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2427/3585109151_24c307a792.jpg

[SnakeBoy]

China slams US tyre tariffs, threatens retaliation
(AFP) – 13 hours ago

BEIJING — Beijing lashed out at the US on Saturday after Washington slapped steep tariffs on imported Chinese tyres, calling the measure "protectionist" and threatening retaliation in China's first trade spat with the Obama administration.

"China is firmly opposed to this measure of serious commercial protectionism by the United States, which not only violates world trade rules but also the undertakings given by the US at the G20," commerce ministry spokesman Yao Jian said in statements posted on the ministry's website.

"In the context of the global economic crisis this sets a very bad example. China reserves the right to retaliate," he said

[Nbadan]

Friday Night News & Policy Dump, that is.

Administration abandons six-party talks; capitulates to NKorea... (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09/us-shifts-policy-willing-to-meet-1on1-with-north-korea.html)
This was a stupid idea when Kerry proposed it...it remains so.

Agrees verification needed to ensure illegals don't receive healthcare benefits... (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/11/2065287.aspx)
Hmmm...having to go back and ensure illegals don't receive care must mean Wilson was right; illegal aliens would have received health care under ObamaCare.

Not quite abandoning...


“It's designed to convince North Korea to come back to the six- party process and to take affirmative steps towards denuclearization,” State Department spokesman PJ Crowley said of the decision to meet.

Speaking on background, a senior US official said: “Our assessment, after consulting with the other parties in the six-party process, is that if a bilateral discussion can be an effective mechanism to get North Korea to come back to the six-party process… so that we can remind them of what their obligations are and to push them to take affirmative steps… then that would be a potentially useful step.”

same link above...

[George Gervin's Afro]

Not quite abandoning...



same link above...

Oh Dan, that would have ruined yoni's headline..

[Nbadan]

Agrees verification needed to ensure illegals don't receive healthcare benefits...
Hmmm...having to go back and ensure illegals don't receive care must mean Wilson was right; illegal aliens would have received health care under ObamaCare.

Or, more likely, it was implyed that illegals would not be covered in the original plan, but to keep it from being a talking point by the simpletons, the WH decided to spelll it out word-for-word...

[Nbadan]

An entire organization goes under the bus. It may take longer to tuck them under there than it did when he was tossing 'em under there, one person at time.

...thus insuring that minorities will be under-counted in the next census based on political propoganda...

[George Gervin's Afro]

Or, more likely, it was implyed that illegals would not be covered in the original plan, but to keep it from being a talking point by the simpletons, the WH decided to spelll it out word-for-word...

I agree. Illegals get care with our without Obamacare on the govt dime. Obama said illegals will not be able to sign up for the public option but they would still receive medical care because of the law...

[Yonivore]

Oh Dan, that would have ruined yoni's headline..


“It's designed to convince North Korea to come back to the six- party process and to take affirmative steps towards denuclearization,” State Department spokesman PJ Crowley said of the decision to meet.

Speaking on background, a senior US official said: “Our assessment, after consulting with the other parties in the six-party process, is that if a bilateral discussion can be an effective mechanism to get North Korea to come back to the six-party process… so that we can remind them of what their obligations are and to push them to take affirmative steps… then that would be a potentially useful step.”
Publicizing that intent, as a strategy to coerce Il, is as stupid as abandoning the six-party talks. I can envision Kim Jung Il saying..."Hey! Hey! I'm in the room here!"

We.are.in.the.best.of.hands.

And, it doesn't change my headline, either. They chose the Friday night dumping ground as the time to release this. A common practice for administrations to use when releasing unpopular or difficult news.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Publicizing that intent, as a strategy to coerce Il, is as stupid as abandoning the six-party talks. I can envision Kim Jung Il saying..."Hey! Hey! I'm in the room here!"

We.are.in.the.best.of.hands.

And, it doesn't change my headline, either. They chose the Friday night dumping ground as the time to release this. A common practice for administrations to use when releasing unpopular or difficult news.

I agree we are in the best of hands.

[Yonivore]

Or, more likely, it was implyed that illegals would not be covered in the original plan, but to keep it from being a talking point by the simpletons, the WH decided to spelll it out word-for-word...
That's not more likely.

If your plan doesn't include illegal aliens, you say so and you demonstrate how that is true. You don't alter your plan to prevent talking points.

[Nbadan]

....Yep, we should not put health-care providers in a position of being I.S.S. agents, especially when we are talking about emergency care, expected in any civilized society, or preventive care that benefits the society as a whole - such as shots for measles, TB, or other infectious diseases....

[Yonivore]

I agree we are in the best of hands.
I know you believe that. Unfortunately, this incident doesn't tend to bolster confidence.

[Yonivore]

If I could analogize. It's like telling the defense how you're going to run a trick play.

That's smart football, eh?

[Yonivore]

....Yep, we should not put health-care providers in a position of being I.S.S. agents, especially when we are talking about emergency care, expected in any civilized society, or preventive care that benefits the society as a whole - such as shots for measles, TB, or other infectious diseases....
You would rather we put bureaucrats in a position to ration care to U. S. citizens.

[Nbadan]

If your plan doesn't include illegal aliens, you say so and you demonstrate how that is true. You don't alter your plan to prevent talking points.

Why? That's not a constituent part of the Democratic party...

[Yonivore]

Why? That's not a constituent part of the Democratic party...
Why? Because it says your plan included illegal aliens...and, it creates more damning talking points.

Seriously, if Obama believed his plan wouldn't cover illegals, he should have stuck to his guns.

[Nbadan]

You would rather we put bureaucrats in a position to ration care to U. S. citizens.

I would rather that those who can afford to pay for their own health-care and are satisfied with their level of service, continue to participate in their own plan, however, those who are denied coverage, their private-coverage fails to pay for coverage they thought they had, people who cannot afford private coverage, and those that get fired and lose their coverage, have preventive coverage so that preventable diseases don't turn into more costly disease maintenance and patient care..

[Nbadan]

Why? Because it says your plan included illegal aliens...and, it creates more damning talking points.

Seriously, if Obama believed his plan wouldn't cover illegals, he should have stuck to his guns.

...have you ever shown where it specifically said this?

[Yonivore]

...have you ever shown where it specifically said this?
It didn't have to specifically say it. The facts are, as the Congressional Research Service showed and as the White House now admits. Illegals would be covered by ObamaCare.

Sometimes, omitted language is as significant as what's actually put in a bill.

[nuclearfm]

Friday Night News & Policy Dump, that is.

Administration abandons six-party talks; capitulates to NKorea... (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09/us-shifts-policy-willing-to-meet-1on1-with-north-korea.html)
This was a stupid idea when Kerry proposed it...it remains so.

Agrees verification needed to ensure illegals don't receive healthcare benefits... (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/11/2065287.aspx)
Hmmm...having to go back and ensure illegals don't receive care must mean Wilson was right; illegal aliens would have received health care under ObamaCare.

Census bureau cuts ties with ACORN... (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9ALCUJO0&show_article=1)
An entire organization goes under the bus. It may take longer to tuck them under there than it did when he was tossing 'em under there, one person at a time.

Obama Opts for Import Tariffs on Chinese Tires... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/11/AR2009091103957_pf.html)
This will end well.

Well, good job. the white house decided to listen to you and actually change the bill to explicitly exclude illegals.

The bullet points sent tonight by the White House:

* Undocumented immigrants would not be able to buy private insurance on the exchange. Those who are lawfully present in this country would be able to participate.
* Undocumented immigrants would be able to buy insurance in the non-exchange private market, just as they do today. That market will shrink as the exchange takes hold, but it will still exist and will be subject to reforms such as the bans on pre-existing conditions and caps.
* Verification will be required when purchasing health insurance on the exchange. One option is the SAVE program (Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements) which states currently use to make sure that undocumented immigrants don't participate in safety-net programs for which they are ineligible.
* There would be no change in the law that requires emergency rooms to treat people who need emergency care, including undocumented immigrants. There is already a federal grant program that compensates states for emergency room costs associated with treatment of undocumented immigrants, a provision sponsored by a Republican lawmaker.

So, the question is do you support it now?
with 99% certainty, probably not. Carry on with the attack politics

[boutons_deux]

Health Reform and Illegal Immigration: The Truth
Saturday 12 September 2009

by: Froma Harrop, t r u t h o u t | Perspective
(http://www.truthout.org/091209Z?print)
In their tireless efforts to kill health care reform, right-wingers have fanned fears that it would attract illegal aliens. This sideshow is rather twisted because, actually, the reforms would do the opposite.

They would help curb illegal immigration.

Start with Canada to see how this works. Canadians have universal coverage, a big immigration program and almost no undocumented workers. These things are not unrelated. Government-guaranteed medical care is a big reason why Canada doesn't tolerate illegal immigration. No country can long afford a large subclass of poor workers that pays little in taxes and collects full benefits.

To quote conservative economist Milton Friedman, "It's just obvious that you can't have free immigration and a welfare state."

Here in the United States, the House health-reform bill has an entire section titled, "No Federal Payment for Undocumented Aliens."

Furthermore, it requires every worker to have coverage, while denying subsidies to illegal immigrants, whatever their income.

In other words, illegal immigrants would have to obtain health insurance and pay full freight for it. That doesn't sound like a five-course free lunch to me.

Aha, say Republican foes of the legislation. The illegals will get around it. "Without the verification, you can't frankly believe it is serious," says Rep. Lamar Smith, Republican of Texas. Fair point. Let's address it.

As a practical matter, undocumented workers shy away from government programs that could expose their illegal status.

A law passed in 2005 requires applicants to Medicaid, which insures poor people, to prove their citizenship.

Two years later, the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform studied Medicaid enrollments in five states (Kansas, Colorado, Minnesota, Washington and Wisconsin). It found only eight illegal immigrants on the rolls.

But, says Georgia Republican Rep. Phil Gingrey, "a lot of their kids are in the school system." That's true. The schools don't check for immigration status. Medicaid does. And so would the health care system now envisioned by Congress.

It's worth noting that President Obama's is the first administration to seriously crack down on illegal immigration in decades. Under its orders, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency has stepped up audits of companies suspected of using illegal labor. Hundreds of offenders have been slapped with stiff fines and warnings to mend their ways.

The administration has just started requiring any company seeking sizeable federal contracts to use the E-Verify system, a database containing Social Security and other records, to ensure that its workers are legal. (First it had to fight off a suit by the Chamber of Commerce and industry groups that use undocumented labor.)

( dubya and Repugs are more "business friendly" and that's why for 6 years in power, the Repugs did nothing about illegal immigration and the businesses that exploit undocumented laborers, including ripping off their wages)

Meanwhile, Chuck Schumer, the New York Democrat who heads the Senate Immigration Subcommittee, is promoting biometric tools to replace the use of documents that can be counterfeited or stolen. Biometrics rely on such unique identifiers as fingerprints and the iris of the eye.

We should examine what's really behind the right's argument that universal health coverage would draw more illegal immigrants. It's an assumption that if you keep America's low-wage workers miserable enough, undocumented foreigners won't want to join them.
That's neither nice nor good for the country.

The dirty truth is that the uninsured are not people on welfare or very poor workers. Those groups get covered by Medicaid.

The uninsured are mainly struggling families who make too much to qualify for Medicaid but not enough to afford the coverage -- or those rejected by private insurers because of pre-existing medical conditions.

To sum it up, the Democrats' policies are already reining in illegal immigration, and the proposed health care reform would, if anything, contain it further. Those trying to stop reform should look elsewhere for scare tactics.

========

So, Yoni, will bother to refute the above?

(oh, and stick that olive branch and peace pigeon up your ass :lol )

No matter what Magik Negro does next year to address illegal immigration, you can bet Repugs and right-wing assholes will try to destroy it, while offering no immigration reform of their own.

[Yonivore]

Okay, let's do a little thought experiment.

Up until the White House made this statement (http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/illegal-immigrants-could-not-buy-insurance-on-new-exchange-white-house-says/), today,...


A White House spokesman, Reid Cherlin, said that the president’s proposals would bar illegal immigrants from purchasing private insurance through the new government marketplace, known as an exchange, and that verification of immigration status would be required for anyone seeking to purchase coverage.
...HR3200 required all person's living in this country -- regardless of legal status -- to have insurance. They could buy their own or they could buy into the Exchanges. And, while it is true that Section 246 specifically prohibited federal funding for affordability credits to illegal aliens; what, precisely, would the government do with illegal aliens, who (under the original language of HR3200) would now be required to purchase insurance, that could not afford it?

[boutons_deux]

The cost problem isn't primarily illegal immigrants. They are only 20% of the public costs for uninsured medical care. That's a problem and it needs to be fixed, but in the large context of fixing the illegal immigration problem, which Magic Negro said in the campaign would be putting the illegals in line behind legal applicants for residency papers, making them pay a fine for their transgression, and bringing them into the system like other legal US residents.

The other 80% is Americans are too "rich" for Medicaid or too financially stressed to buy non-employer health insurance ($13K/year for family of four).

In order to fuck over the illegal aliens, the right wing is willing to fuck over all Americans needing health coverage.

It's just like St Ronnie's "welfare queen in her Cadillac" distraction. Let's fuck over legit welfare people because of a few frauds, while giving the picture that ALL welfare recipients are frauds.

[coyotes_geek]

The administration has just started requiring any company seeking sizeable federal contracts to use the E-Verify system, a database containing Social Security and other records, to ensure that its workers are legal. (First it had to fight off a suit by the Chamber of Commerce and industry groups that use undocumented labor.)

( dubya and Repugs are more "business friendly" and that's why for 6 years in power, the Repugs did nothing about illegal immigration and the businesses that exploit undocumented laborers, including ripping off their wages)

http://hr.blr.com/news.aspx?id=78467

[boutons_deux]

Hispanic leaders are becoming pissed at Obama for actually going after employers/exploiters of illegals.

Did dubya enforce the E-verify system, or just throw it out there as a fake bone, window dressing to mollify the rabid nativists?

[coyotes_geek]

He never had a chance to enforce it. The lawsuits came immediately, there were injunctions and his term expired before things got resolved.

[Yonivore]

The cost problem isn't primarily illegal immigrants. They are only 20% of the public costs for uninsured medical care. That's a problem and it needs to be fixed, but in the large context of fixing the illegal immigration problem, which Magic Negro said in the campaign would be putting the illegals in line behind legal applicants for residency papers, making them pay a fine for their transgression, and bringing them into the system like other legal US residents.

The other 80% is Americans are too "rich" for Medicaid or too financially stressed to buy non-employer health insurance ($13K/year for family of four).

In order to fuck over the illegal aliens, the right wing is willing to fuck over all Americans needing health coverage.

It's just like St Ronnie's "welfare queen in her Cadillac" distraction. Let's fuck over legit welfare people because of a few frauds, while giving the picture that ALL welfare recipients are frauds.
Aaaaannnnnnddddd, this is a conversation worth having. I have some very definite ideas on what should be done.

However, the current question on the table is, did ObamaCare provide for health care to illegal aliens, contrary to the president's adamant claim it did not?

The Congressional Research Service says, yes. Obviously, Congressman Wilson believes it did. As do I. Statements from the White House and from the bi-partisan Senate committee, now working feverishly to close Wilson's "imagined" loopholes, apparently indicate that it did as well.

If you'd like to finish this debate before launching into another about what to do about health care for illegal aliens, I'd appreciate it. If not, don't be surprised if I'm not eager to engage you on the other question.

After all, why start a debate that, as our experience her has shown, you don't intend to finish?

[Yonivore]

impeccable timing on pissing off the Chinese.

China to Probe Alleged ‘Dumping’ of U.S. Products (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a9igRzOC55wE)

Who benefitted from the imposition of these tariffs?

Obama Concedes to Union in Trade Tariff Decision (http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/09/12/obama-concedes-to-union-in-trade-tariff-decision/)

Unions? Surely not. Surely he wouldn't risk a trade war with China for his Union buds.

[nuclearfm]

Hispanic leaders are becoming pissed at Obama for actually going after employers/exploiters of illegals.

Did dubya enforce the E-verify system, or just throw it out there as a fake bone, window dressing to mollify the rabid nativists?


Yup, them along with many business leaders. E-verify is voluntary for those who maybe want to obey the law.They call all of those opposed to them racist ,etc. When in reality they are encouraging racial profiling and substandard labor practices. These people are cheating us all.

[nuclearfm]

impeccable timing on pissing off the Chinese.

China to Probe Alleged ‘Dumping’ of U.S. Products (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a9igRzOC55wE)

Who benefitted from the imposition of these tariffs?

Obama Concedes to Union in Trade Tariff Decision (http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/09/12/obama-concedes-to-union-in-trade-tariff-decision/)

Unions? Surely not. Surely he wouldn't risk a trade war with China for his Union buds.

The Chinese need to be excluded from our "free trade" policies. Every single product they offer has very few standards in terms of labor and economic competition. Good job for Obama doing this. It's about time we recognize a modern communist regime for what they are.

[Yonivore]

The Chinese need to be excluded from our "free trade" policies. Every single product they offer has very few standards in terms of labor and economic competition. Good job for Obama doing this. It's about time we recognize a modern communist regime for what they are.
Too bad they own us.

[ChumpDumper]

So Yoni would rather bend over for his Chinese overlords.

[boutons_deux]

"did ObamaCare provide for health care to illegal aliens"

who cares what people say?

Read the 5 BILLS being put together, aka, still in progress, by House and Senate, NOT by Magic Negro.

Typical tactic to mix in the illegal immigration problem about 10 M illegals to confuse and block the discussion of how to insure 100m+ Americans.

[boutons_deux]

All 4 bills in the House have a public option, and highly probable that the bill passed in the House will have a public option

The Senate whores of the health insurance/BigPharma industries are not including a public option in their committee bill.

Magic Negro MUST go to reconciliaton and 51 votes to pass the bill with a public option.

GO BARRY. Kick us some Repug asses!!

[Winehole23]

The arms Obama twists on his own side of the aisle will be more consequential.

Should he succeed, you'll have your precious bragging rights, b_d.

[Yonivore]

So Yoni would rather bend over for his Chinese overlords.
I'm just asking, was it worth the grief to throw a bone to the steel union? Frankly, I think we eventually default on China and end up in a shooting war over all the debt.

I was just making the point this is a pretty inconvenient time to be pissing them off.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm just asking, was it worth the grief to throw a bone to the steel union? Frankly, I think we eventually default on China and end up in a shooting war over all the debt.

I was just making the point this is a pretty inconvenient time to be pissing them off.The Chinese are flooding the market. They are trying to finish off American tire manufacturers (a number of which are non-union, but you don't want to know that) before they start feeling the pinch from even lower-cost suppliers themselves. There really isn't a whole lot else that can be done except bend over for your Chinese overlords like you want. I prefer not bending over for your Chinese overlords.

[Wild Cobra]

Hispanic leaders are becoming pissed at Obama for actually going after employers/exploiters of illegals.

Who are the hispanic leaders saying this?

I know several Hispanics here in Oregon. They came here legally, and are very irate at others coming here who are illegal!