Steve Nash or Dirk Nowitzki

[picc84]

Two of the best players of this generation.

Which one is better?

Who will have the better legacy at the end of their career?

[resistanze]

Dirk.

[sribb43]

Dirk....would be wise to make a poll

[BRHornet45]

Nash by far

[pauls931]

Dirk will get the edge by many because he made it to the finals, but regarding making a difference to teams, Nash by far.

[mavs>spurs2]

Dirk led a team to a title all by himself

[IronMexican]

Dirk.

Nash probably had a better best but Dirk was better much longer.

[resistanze]

Dirk will get the edge by many because he made it to the finals, but regarding making a difference to teams, Nash by far.

You're right. Nash leaving the Mavs did have a big difference :lol

[pauls931]

You're right. Nash leaving the Mavs did have a big difference :lol

Damn, you're right, I forgot about that title.

[picc84]

Dirk....would be wise to make a poll

I went into "edit" but I didnt see the option.

[sribb43]

Should be "who is better Dirk or D'antoni?"

[21_Blessings]

Both never deserved to win MVP

[dirk4mvp]

Dirk by a long shot.

[dirk4mvp]

Damn, you're right, I forgot about that title.

It's no wonder the Mavs started beating the Spurs after Nash left. Or became a formidable defensive team.

[pauls931]

It's no wonder the Mavs started beating the Spurs after Nash left. Or became a formidable defensive team.

please...

[dirk4mvp]

please...

They did. Look at the Mavs' D rankings before and after. Nash is easily the worst defender at his position of all time.

[BRHornet45]

Both never deserved to win MVP

son I think that Nash deserved one of his, but definitely not both ... Dirk didn't deserve his at all. His skin tone helped him get that award.

[dirk4mvp]

son I think that Nash deserved one of his, but definitely not both ... Dirk didn't deserve his at all. His skin tone helped him get that award.

sons do not be mad that jiggaboo Chris Paul isn't sniffing an mvp any time soon.

[Findog]

Only idiots would choose Nash.

[BRHornet45]

sons do not be mad that jiggaboo Chris Paul isn't sniffing an mvp any time soon.

son that is false. CP3 already has an MVP award from 2008 .... just like the Mavericks won the championship in 2006.

[BRHornet45]

Only idiots would choose Nash.

son and only shameless, blind homers like yourself would make a comment like that ...

[dirk4mvp]

son that is false. CP3 already has an MVP award from 2008 .... just like the Mavericks won the championship in 2006.

god bless sons

[Findog]

David West is a tough guy. He tapped Dirk on the cheek and then shut his ass down for the rest of the series.

[Findog]

son and only shameless, blind homers like yourself would make a comment like that ...

It takes a special kind of twat waffle to choose Nash over Dirk. The only reason you picked Nash is because you're trying to get a rise out of Mavs fans. You're utterly transparent.

[BRHornet45]

David West is a tough guy. He tapped Dirk on the cheek and then shut his ass down for the rest of the series.

son it was pretty funny watching Dirk being cuckolded like that lol ... I even think that West was banging one of Dirk's crackhead, felon girlfriends too.

[Findog]

son it was pretty funny watching Dirk being cuckolded like that lol ... I even think that West was banging one of Dirk's crackhead, felon girlfriends too.

I'm impressed with the "defense" he played on Dirk.

[BRHornet45]

It takes a special kind of twat waffle to choose Nash over Dirk. The only reason you picked Nash is because you're trying to get a rise out of Mavs fans. You're utterly transparent.

son that is simply not true. Unlike MOST fans on this board, I actually use logic when making my decisions. People on this board hate Chris Paul so much that they vote against him whenever deep down they know the truth .... I don't vote like that. I would honestly take Nash over Dirk. You can argue it either way though.

[Findog]

I would honestly take Nash over Dirk. .

30 out of 30 GMs and 30 out of 30 coaches would disagree with you.

[BRHornet45]

30 out of 30 GMs and 30 out of 30 coaches would disagree with you.

son I'm glad you have inside sources to know that type of info.

[Findog]

son I'm glad you have inside sources to know that type of info.

It's just common sense.

[BRHornet45]

It's just common sense.

son sure it is

[Ghazi]

Dirk. It is at the very least a legitimate question though if we're talking about primes.

And he deserved his MVP because he was VOTED the MVP. That is the criteria (to acquire the most votes), he met it, and thus deserved it. Period.

90/50/40 year for a 7 footer, 67 wins, great 4th quarter stats too... yeahhh if not Dirk that year, who the fuck else?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Dirk led a team to a title all by himself

A title? Sorry, has there been a time warp? Did I miss a year? Don't you mean he led a team to the brink of a title then folded like a bad poker hand? :lmao

I take Nash by a nose - one of the great offensive PGs of all-time, an impeccable shooter and incredible passer, made those around him better (see Marion, S particularly), 2 MVPs, would have won a ring but for the Spurs. Interestingly, I'm pretty sure Nash and Dirk are both members of the exclusive 40-50-90 club. Nash's major detraction is that he's useless on D, but then so is Dirk.

And, no, that second paragraph is not Mav-fan-bait (the first definitely is). I honestly think Nash has a slightly better pedigree than Dirk, and unlike most Spurs fans don't hate him - Nash has always played the right way, given his all to the team and played like a Warrior. Go back and watch him playing through that broken nose in 2007 if you've forgotten how tough he is.

I really like Steve Nash. I sorta like Dirk, and respect him as the greatest 7ft shooter the world has ever seen, but I also pity him for 2006 and shit like his choice of women...

[mavs>spurs2]

A title? Sorry, has there been a time warp?

Yes, it happened right around the time you said this:


Nash's major detraction is that he's useless on D, but then so is Dirk.

For about the past 4-5 seasons Dirk has improved to an above average defender. I guess you'd have to actually watch basketball and pay attention to know this though

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Yes, it happened right around the time you said this:

For about the past 4-5 seasons Dirk has improved to an above average defender. I guess you'd have to actually watch basketball and pay attention to know this though

Okay, I'll admit that Dirk is not as bad a defender as Nash. Still doesn't change my mind, or the fact that you are an idiot for suggesting that Dirk has actually won something... what were you thinking??? :lol

[baseline bum]

Dirk by a mile.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Give us your reasoning, baseline. I'm curious.

[resistanze]

Despite that embarrassing flameout to the Warriors, Dirk's MVP was deserved. If we're gonna penalize him for the Warriors loss, then we should crucify Nash. Before Nash, I don't think there was ever a back-to-back MVP winner to not win a title in one of those years, let alone MAKE the finals.

[mavs>spurs2]

Okay, I'll admit that Dirk is not as bad a defender as Nash. Still doesn't change my mind, or the fact that you are an idiot for suggesting that Dirk has actually won something... what were you thinking??? :lol

2006 champs faggot

[mavs>spurs2]

For the record, I think Nash has the advantage at the very peak of their primes, meaning those 2 mvp years. Nash was IMO the most talented player of all time with the ball, and one of the most efficient PG's ever at running an offense. It's a shame his defense blew cock. And Dirk has definitely been the better of the two when considering entire careers, he's been consistent as hell for the past decade.

[anonoftheinternets]

Dirk by a mile.

a mile is a joke. at their peaks nash was pretty damn good. One of the best offensive players (in terms of scoring and running an offense). If you look at his performance on a team where the only other star was amare, that was quite impressive. He also made marion seem sooooooooooo much better than he really was. Agreed he was never going to win a championship because of the flawed ssol philosophy, but he was one of the best at what he did.

all said, I would still pick dirk (7 footer who shoots like he does is a rarity), but a mile is just ignorant and disrespectful.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

2006 champs faggot

You're a Heat fan? Living in terminal denial?

And really, drop the faggot shit or next time I'm in Texas I will ram your head up your own arse, pal. I didn't get personal with you, I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

[DPG21920]

This is the Hakeem vs Duncan or Robinson argument. Many people pick Hakeem to be better than Duncan/Robinson, because Hakeem's peak was better.

Robinson and Duncan did it better for longer however.

[DPG21920]

I didn't get personal with you, I'd appreciate the same courtesy.


Okay, I'll admit that Dirk is not as bad a defender as Nash. Still doesn't change my mind, or the fact that you are an idiot for suggesting that Dirk has actually won something... what were you thinking??? :lol

Just saying.

[mavs>spurs2]

You're a Heat fan? Living in terminal denial?

And really, drop the faggot shit or next time I'm in Texas I will ram your head up your own arse, pal. I didn't get personal with you, I'd appreciate the same courtesy.

Are you seriously threatening me over the internet? Boy, I'd whip your tall, lanky, Australian ass. Don't fuck with a Texan son

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Are you seriously threatening me over the internet? Boy, I'd whip your tall, lanky, Australian ass. Don't fuck with a Texan son

No, not seriously. Just pointing out that there's no need to go ad hominem when the other person hasn't.

Lanky? I weight 105kg mate. And I would kick your arse to Mexico. :D

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

2006 champs faggot


Just saying

He has stated twice in this thread that Dirk won a title in 2006. Under those circumstances, isn't it acceptable to use the descriptor "idiot"? It's not like that's an unreasonable use of the word given the context. If I'd called him a "faggot" or "cow humper" or something, I'd agree with you.

[mavs>spurs2]

He has stated twice in this thread that Dirk won a title in 2006. Under those circumstances, isn't it acceptable to use the descriptor "idiot"? It's not like that's an unreasonable use of the word given the context. If I'd called him a "faggot" or "cow humper" or something, I'd agree with you.

want me to say it one more time? are all you aussies this dense? you make trolling easy as 1 2 3..

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

want me to say it one more time? are all you aussies this dense? you make trolling easy as 1 2 3..

Oh, you're trolling me? Generally that involves some manner of prank or clever wordplay, none of which I've seen from you yet. :lol

[DPG21920]

He has stated twice in this thread that Dirk won a title in 2006. Under those circumstances, isn't it acceptable to use the descriptor "idiot"? It's not like that's an unreasonable use of the word given the context. If I'd called him a "faggot" or "cow humper" or something, I'd agree with you.

It is a common thing around here for Mav fans to say " 2006 champs fa**ot". He was joking, it was very obvious.

It is never ok to call someone an idiot. That is a personal attack, whether you try and bend the terms to fit your needs or not. Not a big deal, but you should realize you do the same things you ask not to be done sometimes.

Clever with the DPWhatever though :lol

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

It is a common thing around here for Mav fans to say " 2006 champs fa**ot". He was joking, it was very obvious.

It is never ok to call someone an idiot. That is a personal attack, whether you try and bend the terms to fit your needs or not. Not a big deal, but you should realize you do the same things you ask not to be done sometimes.

Clever with the DPWhatever though :lol

Well, that is obviously an NBA forum protocol I didn't understand as I don't come in here very often. Now I know, thanks.

As for never calling someone an idiot, come on man, lighten up a little. It's highly contextually dependent. Someone says something stupid, you can call him an idiot. I will admit to occasionally going over the top, but I've attenuated that, and I never just attack someone for the hell of it.

mavs<><><>spurs - I didn't get the reference, now I do. I still think we should throw down next time I'm in Texas! :lmao

[DPG21920]

It is their version of "4 rings b*tch" that Spurs fans use. I am cool with friendly needling, all in context.

[baseline bum]

all said, I would still pick dirk (7 footer who shoots like he does is a rarity), but a mile is just ignorant and disrespectful.

Nash may be the worst defender I have ever seen. He makes Dirk look like Bill Russell. Dirk over Nash and it's not even close.

[Ghazi]

Dirk's peak was just as good if not better than Nash's IMO.... referring to Dirks 05-07 years he was playing like a Top 3 player IMO... not sure if the same could ever have been said about Nash (Top 5-10 though in his peak). Just my biased opinions :)

[Kamnik]

People are going over the board saying Dirk is a horrible defender. He is nothing special but he is at least average.

Nash had a 3 year peak when he really made a below average team a contender. But Dirk had/has a 10 year peak where he makes a team a contender.

Not to mention Nash is an atrocious defender and doesn't really care about winning more than "HAVING FUN" while playing...

Dirk>Nash at peak and Dirk>>>>Nash right now.

[DPG21920]

Dirk was a horrible defender, but then he had 2 solid years where he was good. Now he is back to right about average.

[dirk4mvp]

This is nothing like Robinson and Hakeem.

Also, Nash has to be in a certain system for him to put up those kinds of numbers. Where were they when he was in Dallas?

[Fernando TD21]

Dirk. Zx_IbHIll5o

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

This is nothing like Robinson and Hakeem.

Also, Nash has to be in a certain system for him to put up those kinds of numbers. Where were they when he was in Dallas?

In Dallas he played for Nellie who also plays run'n'gun, as you well know. Nash was young to the NBA then and just cutting his teeth. He took quite a while to truly find his feet, a late bloomer one might say.

Random Nash stat: Nash had 10 blocks last year, 2 fewer than his career high of 12 in 05-06.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_nash/career_stats.html

[sonic21]

Lopsided comparison.

Dirk is by far a better player, has the better career,etc.

[dirk4mvp]

In Dallas he played for Nellie who also plays run'n'gun, as you well know. Nash was young to the NBA then and just cutting his teeth. He took quite a while to truly find his feet, a late bloomer one might say.

Random Nash stat: Nash had 10 blocks last year, 2 fewer than his career high of 12 in 05-06.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_nash/career_stats.html

Young? Nash had been in the league for like 7 or 8 years and was around 30 when he left Dallas.

[sribb43]

Dirk >>>> D'Antoni

[A_Duke]

Dirk Nowitzki. To date he has accomplished more than Nash, and he is still in his prime.

[manufan10]

I would take Dirk on my team.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Young? Nash had been in the league for like 7 or 8 years and was around 30 when he left Dallas.


You'll have to excuse that guy for talking out of his ass. Saying Nash was young in 2003 means you're retarded.

[Dex]

Gotta go with Dirk. From an opposition standpoint, Dirk always worried me much more than Nash. That elbow jumper is lethal, his three draws the bigman out, he's tall enough to rebound, and he plays better defense than he usually gets credit for.

Nash is a great point guard, but Dirk is just a walking mismatch.

[lefty]

Both guys played hard.

[Hornets1]

For today, it would be Dirk.
Career-wise, it's about even
In their best year, I take Nash by a fairly small margin

[DPG21920]

This is nothing like Robinson and Hakeem.


Robinson and Hakeem >>>>> Nash vs Dirk, but there are parallels

How so? In those arguments people who argue Hakeem say he had a better peak and "owned" Robinson in a single playoff. Robinson clearly was a more dominant player for a longer period of time.

Here, most agree that Nash's peak was better than Dirk's, but Dirk gets the nod because of his longevity.

[dirk4mvp]

Hakeem's peak was so much higher than Robinson's, it isn't even funny.


If someone said Nash's peak was higher than Dirk's then it's not by much, as it's arguable as to who had the better peak, but in the Hakeem Robinson debate, it's no question.


btw, Nash's peak included getting owned by the same a couple of times while having the most talented team in basketball. Dirks' peak includes taking a team to the Finals with no all stars at the time.

[lefty]

Both guys played hard

- Rasheed Wallace

[picc84]

But who played harder.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Young? Nash had been in the league for like 7 or 8 years and was around 30 when he left Dallas.


You'll have to excuse that guy for talking out of his ass. Saying Nash was young in 2003 means you're retarded.

How about you guys learn to read? I said "young to the NBA", not "young", and no-one specified the time he left Dallas, which was before the 2004-05 season, not the 2003-04 season, which you should know being a Dallas fan. Cherrypicking makes you look like the arsehole, not me.

When Nash arrived in Dallas in 98-99 he was 25 and had played 2 years as a backup in Phoenix - he was "young to the NBA" in that he'd only played 2 years. Remember that PGs and centres often take 5+ years to mature fully in the NBA, and most NBA players peak in their late-20s.

Nash really matured into some semblance of his true NBA form in 2000-01 when he took over the reigns in Dallas and went for 15/7 with near 50-40-90 %s. The next year he went for 18/8. Back then he was playing with Mike Finley, a young Dirk, and not much else in terms of talent, which pretty well explains the lower assist numbers. By contrast, at Phoenix he has always played on talented teams with guys who can finish off his passes.

Further confirmation of the benefit of having great teams around him to help shoulder the load since he's been in Phoenix is that he's had 5 straight 50-40 seasons, and would have 5 straight 50-40-90 seasons but for shooting 0.887 in 04-05, and 0.899 (!) in 06-07.

As I already said in my post above, Nash is a true late-bloomer, but he's been pretty damned good since 2000-01, although the poor teams he played with in the early days in Dallas artificially constricted his numbers across the board. How else do you explain the difference given that he played an up-tempo style in both destinations?

Oh, and if you fuckers want to take potshots, fine, but if you know this board at all you should also know that I rarely air opinions I haven't thought through and researched. Disagree with me all you like, but stick the "retarded" calls on someone else.

[mavs>spurs2]

How about you guys learn to read? I said "young to the NBA", not "young", and no-one specified the time he left Dallas, which was before the 2004-05 season, not the 2003-04 season, which you should know being a Dallas fan. Cherrypicking makes you look like the arsehole, not me.

When Nash arrived in Dallas in 98-99 he was 25 and had played 2 years as a backup in Phoenix - he was "young to the NBA" in that he'd only played 2 years. Remember that PGs and centres often take 5+ years to mature fully in the NBA, and most NBA players peak in their late-20s.

Nash really matured into some semblance of his true NBA form in 2000-01 when he took over the reigns in Dallas and went for 15/7 with near 50-40-90 %s. The next year he went for 18/8. Back then he was playing with Mike Finley, a young Dirk, and not much else in terms of talent, which pretty well explains the lower assist numbers. By contrast, at Phoenix he has always played on talented teams with guys who can finish off his passes.

Further confirmation of the benefit of having great teams around him to help shoulder the load since he's been in Phoenix is that he's had 5 straight 50-40 seasons, and would have 5 straight 50-40-90 seasons but for shooting 0.887 in 04-05, and 0.899 (!) in 06-07.

As I already said in my post above, Nash is a true late-bloomer, but he's been pretty damned good since 2000-01.

you may be right but you still fail though

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

you may be right but you still fail though

And you ought to justify what you say every once in a while...

(and yes, I now get the joke, you go around saying things like "2006 champions faggot" and "you fail" all the time... doesn't it get a little old? I mean, don't you get tired of it yourself?)

[mavs>spurs2]

And you ought to justify what you say every once in a while...

(and yes, I now get the joke, you go around saying things like "2006 champions faggot" and "you fail" all the time... doesn't it get a little old? I mean, don't you get tired of it yourself?)

i mean you just fail at this forum. nothing personal

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

i mean you just fail at this forum. nothing personal

Yes, true. I actually research, apply reason and construct arguments, and that's not the NBA Forum way. :lol

Don't worry, I'm not going to stick around. I'm only migrating temporarily during the offseason. I'll be largely confined to anywhere but here when the season begins anew.

Oh, and don't worry, I've been a forum denizen for 10 years. I've learned that taking things personally is far too stressful.

[mavs>spurs2]

Yes, true. I actually research, apply reason and construct arguments, and that's not the NBA Forum way. :lol

Don't worry, I'm not going to stick around. I'm only migrating temporarily during the offseason. I'll be largely confined to anywhere but here when the season begins anew.

Oh, and don't worry, I've been a forum denizen for 10 years. I've learned that taking things personally is far too stressful.

:tu now you get it!!! welcome aboard sir. the nba forum is pretty casual and more comedy than anything lots of times. we do have our moments where we get into some pretty good discussions though, don't get me wrong

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

:tu now you get it!!! welcome aboard sir. the nba forum is pretty casual and more comedy than anything lots of times. we do have our moments where we get into some pretty good discussions though, don't get me wrong

I got it all along. I like to play the straight man. ;) :lmao

[JustBlaze]

Is this a serious question? Dork by a mile.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

How about you guys learn to read? I said "young to the NBA", not "young", and no-one specified the time he left Dallas, which was before the 2004-05 season, not the 2003-04 season, which you should know being a Dallas fan. Cherrypicking makes you look like the arsehole, not me.

When Nash arrived in Dallas in 98-99 he was 25 and had played 2 years as a backup in Phoenix - he was "young to the NBA" in that he'd only played 2 years. Remember that PGs and centres often take 5+ years to mature fully in the NBA, and most NBA players peak in their late-20s.

Nash really matured into some semblance of his true NBA form in 2000-01 when he took over the reigns in Dallas and went for 15/7 with near 50-40-90 %s. The next year he went for 18/8. Back then he was playing with Mike Finley, a young Dirk, and not much else in terms of talent, which pretty well explains the lower assist numbers. By contrast, at Phoenix he has always played on talented teams with guys who can finish off his passes.

Further confirmation of the benefit of having great teams around him to help shoulder the load since he's been in Phoenix is that he's had 5 straight 50-40 seasons, and would have 5 straight 50-40-90 seasons but for shooting 0.887 in 04-05, and 0.899 (!) in 06-07.

As I already said in my post above, Nash is a true late-bloomer, but he's been pretty damned good since 2000-01, although the poor teams he played with in the early days in Dallas artificially constricted his numbers across the board. How else do you explain the difference given that he played an up-tempo style in both destinations?

Oh, and if you fuckers want to take potshots, fine, but if you know this board at all you should also know that I rarely air opinions I haven't thought through and researched. Disagree with me all you like, but stick the "retarded" calls on someone else.


How was someone drafted in 1996 "young to the NBA" in 2003 or 2004?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Robinson clearly was a more dominant player for a longer period of time.


Even though the two have nearly identical career averages?

[Amaso]

This is the Hakeem vs Duncan or Robinson argument. Many people pick Hakeem to be better than Duncan/Robinson, because Hakeem's peak was better.

Robinson and Duncan did it better for longer however.

lol, you think hakeem was just some borderline all-star for 10 years dont you

[DPG21920]

No, but Duncan and Robinson played better for longer portions of their careers and I am not just talking about averages. Hakeem was an unbelievable player, especially in his championship years, but I feel Duncan and Robinson played better for longer periods of time.

Robinson to a lesser extent than Duncan.

[dirk4mvp]

lol, you think hakeem was just some borderline all-star for 10 years dont you

That's spur fans M.O. Tear down another player to prop up their own.

[bostonguy]

Dirk

[DPG21920]

That's spur fans M.O. Tear down another player to prop up their own.

:blah

[vicphoenix13]

If it wasn't for Steve Nash, Dirk may not have lasted more than two years in the NBA. Nash helped Dirk adjust to North America when he had no friends to associate with.

[dirk4mvp]

:blah

I noticed you didn't argue with it.

[Ghazi]

88 posts without a retarded anti-Dirk comment from bballgirl25? Shocking, and wonderful :)

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

How was someone drafted in 1996 "young to the NBA" in 2003 or 2004?

Who said he was? He started in Dallas in 98-99. Again, LEARN TO READ.

[z0sa]

Who said he was? He started in Dallas in 98-99. Again, LEARN TO READ.


How about you guys learn to read? I said "young to the NBA", not "young",

i'm not talkin shit, being that I think its closer than mavfan has admitted, but what exactly is your point?

[Culburn369]

If it wasn't for Steve Nash, Dirk may not have lasted more than two years in the NBA. Nash helped Dirk adjust to North America when he had no friends to associate with.

Outstanding lodgment, vic.

[polysylab1k]

Okay, I'll admit that Dirk is not as bad a defender as Nash. Still doesn't change my mind, or the fact that you are an idiot for suggesting that Dirk has actually won something... what were you thinking??? :lol
There wouldn't be anything mentionable if the MVP trophy wasn't a remarkable achievement, but the an opposite viewpoint is quiet prevalent among the idiots that Dirk hasn't actually won anything. Dirk is a decent defender by any means even if he isn't perfect defensively, at least Dirk has never allowed Diop to play superstar-like in front of him. :lol Dirk's remarkable skills for offense are so shining that some short-sighted imbeciles always overlook or intentionally degrade his fairly good works at defensive end, comparably Nash is a terrible defender and even at his finest, he is an ignorable piece of glass when it comes to defense. It's fair to say Nash is also an offensive elite but his terrible defense isn't something that his offensive work can make up for.

[Culburn369]

There wouldn't be anything mentionable if the MVP trophy wasn't a remarkable achievement

Please. It's a swell dust catcher, a functional door stop, a nifty pretty, but, that's it.

[da_suns_fan]

What a joke. Nash's legacy will far exceed Dirk's. Nash is alreay a top 10 pg of all time. You think anyone says that about Dirk?

Ten years from now what will people remember?

Nash was the "everyman" 2-time MVP and tough as nails (hitting multiple 3s with a busted face etc).

Dirk will always be remembered as a good shooting PF who choked against lesser teams.

PERIOD.

Im not surprised Texas is biased for Dirk (not to mention still bitter from so much Suns love from the media during 2005-2008). But you people are kidding yourselves.

[hater]

last time I checked, Nash did not lead his #1 seed team out of the playoffs in the 1st round.

[da_suns_fan]

last time I checked, Nash did not lead his #1 seed team out of the playoffs in the 1st round.

No kidding. As if Dirk could be remembered for anything besides choking in back to back years when Dallas was in its prime.

[sonic21]

What a joke. Nash's legacy will far exceed Dirk's. Nash is alreay a top 10 pg of all time. You think anyone says that about Dirk?


Dirk is top 10 PF of alltime. And stop listening sportcenter and espn.

[hater]

Dirk is top 10 PF of alltime. And stop listening sportcenter and espn.

barely


Duncan
Malone
Pettit
Mchale
Barkley
KG
hayes
Rodman
debushere
dirk

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

barely


Duncan
Malone
Pettit
Mchale
Barkley
KG
hayes
Rodman
debushere
dirk


You seriously have Dave fucking DeBusschere rated ahead of Dirk?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

No kidding. As if Dirk could be remembered for anything besides choking in back to back years when Dallas was in its prime.


He made it to the finals, Nash never did.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

(hitting multiple 3s with a busted face etc).


And still losing the game.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Nash was the "everyman" 2-time MVP and tough as nails (hitting multiple 3s with a busted face etc).


Tough as nails players don't let Devin Harris drop 47 point career highs, or let Rajon Rondo drop 31 point career highs, or be one of only two players to let Aaron Brooks drop 30+ points.

Most importantly, tough as nails players don't whine about how they want to have more fun and not care as much about winning.

[resistanze]

What a joke. Nash's legacy will far exceed Dirk's. Nash is alreay a top 10 pg of all time. You think anyone says that about Dirk?

Ten years from now what will people remember?

Nash was the "everyman" 2-time MVP and tough as nails (hitting multiple 3s with a busted face etc).

Dirk will always be remembered as a good shooting PF who choked against lesser teams.

PERIOD.

Im not surprised Texas is biased for Dirk (not to mention still bitter from so much Suns love from the media during 2005-2008). But you people are kidding yourselves.

Nash's legacy?

Back-2-Back MVPs:

Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Moses Malone
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Tim Duncan
Steve Nash

...It's like out of a page from a cheap 'Where's Waldo' book.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Outside of 2005-2007, Nash has done jack shit. This isn't the "who was better from 2005-2007" contest, this is who has had the better overall career.

[da_suns_fan]

Outside of 2005-2007, Nash has done jack shit. This isn't the "who was better from 2005-2007" contest, this is who has had the better overall career.

No shit, Sherlock. And Dirk's career will be defined by his choke jobs in 2006 and 2007 where Nash will be defined by back to back MVPs and being one of the greatest PGs of all time (although a horrible defender).

btw - Outside of 2005-2007, Dirk hasnt done jack shit either.

Besides, legacy is based off popularity, anyway. And Nash is immensely more popular than Dirk. Most people dont even know who Dirk is.

[da_suns_fan]

Tough as nails players don't let Devin Harris drop 47 point career highs, or let Rajon Rondo drop 31 point career highs, or be one of only two players to let Aaron Brooks drop 30+ points.

Most importantly, tough as nails players don't whine about how they want to have more fun and not care as much about winning.

You seriously need to grow up. Youre one of the most immature posters Ive ever encountered.

Nash said he cares more about "having fun" than "winning"?

REALLY? Show me the quote where he said that, jackass.

Or shut the fuck up. You takes quotes out of contexts, then change them completely. Youre like one of these old folks at the town hall meetings. You dont have the faintest clue what you are talking about. Nash was talking about the malaise of the Suns (WHO WERENT WINNING YOU FUCKING IDIOT) during some very dark days during Terry Porter's short yet way too long tenure as coach. He said they werent having very much fun. YOU spin that into "Nash would rather have fun than win" because youre a fucking clueless kid who isnt smart enough to even understand a simple sports article.

You dont read much, do you? I cant imagine you following the plot of even a basic Grisham novel.

[Findog]

What a joke. Nash's legacy will far exceed Dirk's. Nash is alreay a top 10 pg of all time. You think anyone says that about Dirk?


No, I don't think people say Dirk is a top 10 PG of all-time. He absolutely is one of the 10 best at the PF position, though. Nash is basically as good as Mark Price was. Price would've put up some eye-popping stats in SSOL too.



Ten years from now what will people remember?

Ten years from now nobody will care about either player.



Dirk will always be remembered as a good shooting PF who choked against lesser teams.

He'll be remembered as the greatest foreign player of all-time (Hakeem is a US citizen). Payton and Kemp's legacy isn't losing to the Nuggets, and Dirk's legacy won't be losing to the Warriors.

Dirk is a better franchise player than Nash. The Mavs knew it and they let Nash walk. Nash can only be that guy in D'Antoni's system, and those teams were fatally flawed when it came to winning a title.

[Findog]

No shit, Sherlock. And Dirk's career will be defined by his choke jobs in 2006 and 2007 where Nash will be defined by back to back MVPs and being one of the greatest PGs of all time (although a horrible defender).

Dirk took his teams further than Nash did, and the Mavs didn't have as much talent around him as Nash did in Phoenix.




Besides, legacy is based off popularity, anyway. And Nash is immensely more popular than Dirk. Most people dont even know who Dirk is

This isn't a popularity contest. This is about who is better in their prime and who had the better career. Dirk on both counts.

[da_suns_fan]

Dirk took his teams further than Nash did, and the Mavs didn't have as much talent around him as Nash did in Phoenix.



This isn't a popularity contest. This is about who is better in their prime and who had the better career. Dirk on both counts.

1) Steve Nash from 2005-2007 was far superior than Dirk at any point of his career.

2) Judging a player's "career" is completely subjective unless you add in some parameters. MVP awards, All Star Appearances, Championships etc. You are basing your opinion that Dirk had a better career on the fact that he made it to the finals and lost and Nash never made it that far. Well Chauncey Billups made it to the finals and won. Did he have a better career than Dirk?

3) Legacy is very much associated with popularity. A couple of years ago I was reading an article where they considered if Michael Jordan had surpassed Babe Ruth as the most iconic sports figure of all time. As a test, they used a google search trick to find all web articles that listed someone as "The Babe Ruth of ...." versus "The Michael Jordan of ...".

When we compare Nash to Nowitzki using the same test, its not even close:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___US342&hs=HCS&q=%22The+Steve+Nash+of%22&start=0&sa=N

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1GGGL_en___US342&hs=PX7&q=%22The+Dirk+Nowitzki+of%22&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Not only is Steve Nash much more popular, he's more popular for posetive reasons. Look at the first page of references to "The Dirk Nowitzki of" and you'll find references such as this:


in the last couple shows, he's made mistakes–the pressure seems to be mounting and he seems to be showing some cracks–is he the Dirk Nowitzki of cooks?

Where as Nash references are almost always positive. Thus, I believe Nash will have a much more positive and lasting legacy as a basketball player and competitor.

[Culburn369]

Ten years from now nobody will care about either player.

You may be right about Nowitski, Fin, but, Nash will always have a place in the annals of NBA. He doesn't deserve it, and I can't even account for it, but, it's real and it ain't goin' away. He's juiced in, and even more acute:::he knows it.

I guess he's the right white man at the right time.

[Culburn369]

Where as Nash references are almost always positive. Thus, I believe Nash will have a much more positive and lasting legacy as a basketball player and competitor.

Even that claim doesn't hold water, da. He's incited to mutiny an entire team, he's quit a couple times in the playoffs. He enjoys a coating of Teflon. He ain't it, Media does not wish to cast him down, at least not to this point.

[Findog]

1) Steve Nash from 2005-2007 was far superior than Dirk at any point of his career.


Get real, homer. He put up fancy stats in a gimmick offense. He was a great player from 2005-2007, but Dirk was as well. SSOL was never going to win a title, and it's no surprise that Nash reverted last year to a borderline All Star caliber player, just like he was in Dallas. I wouldn't at all be surprised if Nash returns to something close to his 2005-07 performance now that Gentry has reinstalled SSOL.



2) Judging a player's "career" is completely subjective unless you add in some parameters. MVP awards, All Star Appearances, Championships etc. You are basing your opinion that Dirk had a better career on the fact that he made it to the finals and lost and Nash never made it that far. Well Chauncey Billups made it to the finals and won. Did he have a better career than Dirk?

Jason Kapono has a ring and Dirk doesn't. That doesn't mean Kapono is a better player than Dirk. Dirk took less talented teams further than Nash did. Those Phoenix teams were tailor-made for Nash's skill-set and they had only one impressive series win in all that time (Dallas in 2005). Nash never could play defense, Dirk worked himself into less of a liability at that end. The Mavs ironically enough faced this decision themselves in 2004 and they chose Dirk. The results speak for themselves and they made the right call.


Not only is Steve Nash much more popular, he's more popular for posetive reasons. Look at the first page of references to "The Dirk Nowitzki of" and you'll find references such as this:

This thread is about who was a better player in their prime and who had the better career. That's Dirk on both counts. Dirk will be remembered as the greatest foreign-born player of all-time, Nash will be remembered as one of the better point guards to ever play the game. They will both make the Hall of Fame. 30 out of 30 GMs and 29 out of 30 coaches would take Dirk. Only D'Antoni would take Nash. I can't even imagine the stats Dirk would put up playing for D'Antoni.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Findog, if you wonder why I hate Nash, it's got a lot to do with retarded Nash fans like DSF.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Birdman Anderson is more popular than Kobe Bryant

Birdman's legacy > Kobe's legacy

[Culburn369]

Birdman's legacy > Kobe's legacy

At least to Birdy's cocaine supplier.

tee, hee.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You dont have the faintest clue what you are talking about. Nash was talking about the malaise of the Suns (WHO WERENT WINNING YOU FUCKING IDIOT) during some very dark days during Terry Porter's short yet way too long tenure as coach.


Nash made the comments about having fun when the Suns were 11-5.

[lotr1trekkie]

As a Spurs fan Nash ALWAYS scared the hell out of me in Dallas or Phoenix. Dirk? If he had Manu's cajones he would have been a winner. This team let Nash go and brought in Kidd for more money---losers make losers decisions.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

As a Spurs fan Nash ALWAYS scared the hell out of me in Dallas or Phoenix.


Right, cause Nash has had so much success against the Spurs over the years.

[resistanze]

As a Spurs fan Nash ALWAYS scared the hell out of me in Dallas or Phoenix. Dirk? If he had Manu's cajones he would have been a winner. This team let Nash go and brought in Kidd for more money---losers make losers decisions.

Well considering Nash hasn't won a series against the Spurs and Dirk has won the last two, I don't see how that makes any sense.

[dirk4mvp]

As a Spurs fan Nash ALWAYS scared the hell out of me in Dallas or Phoenix. Dirk? If he had Manu's cajones he would have been a winner. This team let Nash go and brought in Kidd for more money---losers make losers decisions.

http://www.memedepot.com/uploads/0/207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg

[Findog]

As a Spurs fan Nash ALWAYS scared the hell out of me in Dallas or Phoenix. Dirk? If he had Manu's cajones he would have been a winner. This team let Nash go and brought in Kidd for more money---losers make losers decisions.

Hmm...no Steve Nash team has ever beaten the Spurs in the playoffs, whereas Dirk sent the Spurs fishing twice. Nash scares the hell out of you but Dirk doesn't? Are you fucking retarded?

[Findog]

http://www.memedepot.com/uploads/0/207_not_sure_if_serious.jpg

I admit, we might've just gotten trolled.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Well considering Nash hasn't won a series against the Spurs and Dirk has won the last two, I don't see how that makes any sense.


It doesn't.

Before 2004, the Suns were 3-3 in their last 6 playoff matchups with the Spurs. Since signing Nash, they've been 0-3.

Before 2004, the Mavs were 0-2 against the Spurs since their franchise was created. Since Nash left Dallas, they've been 2-0 against the Spurs.

Any Spurs fan "afraid" of Steve Nash is retarded.

[resistanze]

And people are seriously overhyping Nash's years from 2004-07.

Nash's stats:
17 PPG, 11.2 APG, 52% FG

CP3 in the past two years:
22 PPG, 11.3 APG, 49% FG

One was in SSOL, one was in Byron Scott's system.

Was Nash's peak even higher than Dirk?

Dirk 2004-07:
25.8 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 48% FG

Debatable at best.

[resistanze]

ESPN's top 10 point guards ever list:

M. Johnson 13 19.5 7.2 11.2 24.1
O. Robertson 14 25.7 7.5 9.5 23.2
I. Thomas 13 19.2 3.6 9.3 18.1
J. Stockton 19 13.1 2.7 10.5 21.8
B. Cousy 14 18.4 5.2 7.5 19.8
W. Frazier 13 18.9 5.9 6.1 19.1
J. Kidd 13 14.5 6.7 9.2 18.9
T. Archibald 13 18.8 2.3 7.4 18.0
S. Nash 11 14.0 2.9 7.6 19.9
G. Payton 17 16.3 3.9 6.7 18.9

Name the only person on the list not to make it out of his own conference.

[dirk4mvp]

When I think of Spur killers, Nash isn't a name that comes to mind.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Hmm...no Steve Nash team has ever beaten the Spurs in the playoffs, whereas Dirk sent the Spurs fishing twice. Nash scares the hell out of you but Dirk doesn't? Are you fucking retarded?


Nash is more popular.

[dirk4mvp]

Nash is more popular.

Those vitamin water commercials are great.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Those vitamin water commercials are great.


I know they are, it's why Nash's legacy > Dirk's legacy.

[Findog]

ESPN's top 10 point guards ever list:

M. Johnson 13 19.5 7.2 11.2 24.1
O. Robertson 14 25.7 7.5 9.5 23.2
I. Thomas 13 19.2 3.6 9.3 18.1
J. Stockton 19 13.1 2.7 10.5 21.8
B. Cousy 14 18.4 5.2 7.5 19.8
W. Frazier 13 18.9 5.9 6.1 19.1
J. Kidd 13 14.5 6.7 9.2 18.9
T. Archibald 13 18.8 2.3 7.4 18.0
S. Nash 11 14.0 2.9 7.6 19.9
G. Payton 17 16.3 3.9 6.7 18.9

Name the only person on the list not to make it out of his own conference.

How the hell do you put Nash ahead of Gary Payton????? Nash plays on one end of the floor only. Payton was a beast on both.

[Findog]

Those vitamin water commercials are great.

Nash was on Entourage and Dirk wasn't...ergo, Nash > Dirk.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

How the hell do you put Nash ahead of Gary Payton????? Nash plays on one end of the floor only. Payton was a beast on both.



How the fuck do you put Nash ahead of Kevin Johnson is my question.

[Findog]

How the fuck do you put Nash ahead of Kevin Johnson is my question.

Nash should be eternally grateful to Mike D'Antoni for making him look better than he actually is.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Nash should be eternally grateful to Mike D'Antoni for making him look better than he actually is.



Even more grateful that he's got a fan base and a general manager who think you should give a 35 YO player a 22 million dollar extension merely because of a 3 year fluke era that's irrelevant to present day basketball.

[Findog]

Even more grateful that he's got a fan base and a general manager who think you should give a 35 YO player a 22 million dollar extension merely because of a 3 year fluke era that's irrelevant to present day basketball.

They just want to sell tickets.

[da_suns_fan_]

The real debate is Steve Nash or Eva! Who gets better ratings?

[da_suns_fan]

Get real, homer. He put up fancy stats in a gimmick offense. He was a great player from 2005-2007, but Dirk was as well. SSOL was never going to win a title, and it's no surprise that Nash reverted last year to a borderline All Star caliber player, just like he was in Dallas. I wouldn't at all be surprised if Nash returns to something close to his 2005-07 performance now that Gentry has reinstalled SSOL.







Umm...no. Did Dirk finish first or second in MVP voting three straight seasons?

In three seasons EVER?

No? Why not? Nash did!

I guess those sports writers are clueless when it comes to the most valuable player.

btw - It didnt matter who Nash had on his team. Replace Joe Johnson with Raja Bell. He kept winning. Replace Amare with Boris Diaw. He kept winning.

And do you honestly believe Dirk will be remembered as anything but a choker? Maybe...MAYBE he'll be remembered for the Hasslehoff reference. :lol

The big German will go down as history as the greatest choker in the history of basketball. For which season you may ask? Take your pick.

Like I pointed out earlier..."The Dirk Nowitzki of" is usually a reference to something bad. :lol

[da_suns_fan_]

Get real, homer. He put up fancy stats in a gimmick offense. He was a great player from 2005-2007, but Dirk was as well. SSOL was never going to win a title, and it's no surprise that Nash reverted last year to a borderline All Star caliber player, just like he was in Dallas. I wouldn't at all be surprised if Nash returns to something close to his 2005-07 performance now that Gentry has reinstalled SSOL.





Umm...no. Did Dirk finish first or second in MVP voting three straight seasons?

In three seasons EVER?

No? Why not? Nash did!

I guess those sports writers are clueless when it comes to the most valuable player.

btw - It didnt matter who Nash had on his team. Replace Joe Johnson with Raja Bell. He kept winning. Replace Amare with Boris Diaw. He kept winning.

And do you honestly believe Dirk will be remembered as anything but a choker? Maybe...MAYBE he'll be remembered for the Hasslehoff reference. :lol

The big German will go down as history as the greatest choker in the history of basketball. For which season you may ask? Take your pick.

Like I pointed out earlier..."The Dirk Nowitzki of" is usually a reference to something bad. :lol

[da_suns_fan]

How the fuck do you put Nash ahead of Kevin Johnson is my question.
:lol

Did you ever even SEE Kevin Johnson play? Have you ever watched a game on NBA classic that featured Kevin Johnson?

Lets see..youre 18. KJ came back for about 20 games at the end of 2000 which would have made you 9. Before that his last game was when you were 7.

I doubt you can recall the T-shirts they issued when KJ came back, can you?

Look junior, stick to the uninformed Nash smack.

Also, as for the Suns record against the Spurs before/after Nash....thats about as stupid as your "Suns record with versus without SHAQ" argument. As if the Suns beating the Spurs in 1993 and then losing to them in 2005 anyway defines Steve Nash who wasnt even in Santa Clara when Barkley ripped that game winner over Robinson.

Owning you is like shooting fish in a barrel because you dont use logic. You WANT to hate Nash so bad that you start to just ramble off stupid blanket statements that are just petty.

[da_suns_fan_]

How the fuck do you put Nash ahead of Kevin Johnson is my question.

:lol

Did you ever even SEE Kevin Johnson play? Have you ever watched a game on NBA classic that featured Kevin Johnson?

Lets see..youre 18. KJ came back for about 20 games at the end of 2000 which would have made you 9. Before that his last game was when you were 7.

I doubt you can recall the T-shirts they issued when KJ came back, can you?

Look junior, stick to the uninformed Nash smack.

Also, as for the Suns record against the Spurs before/after Nash....thats about as stupid as your "Suns record with versus without SHAQ" argument. As if the Suns beating the Spurs in 1993 and then losing to them in 2005 anyway defines Steve Nash who wasnt even in Santa Clara when Barkley ripped that game winner over Robinson.

Owning you is like shooting fish in a barrel because you dont use logic. You WANT to hate Nash so bad that you start to just ramble off stupid blanket statements that are just petty.

[da_suns_fan]

The real debate is Steve Nash or Eva! Who gets better ratings?

No..the REAL debate is which DiCaprio film which you jack off to tonight?

Basketball diaries?

[da_suns_fan_]

The real debate is Steve Nash or Eva! Who gets better ratings?

No..the REAL debate is which DiCaprio film which you jack off to tonight?

Basketball diaries?

[da_suns_fan_]

which which which!

[da_suns_fan]

Nash should be eternally grateful to Mike D'Antoni for making him look better than he actually is.

Dirk should be eternally grateful to Amare for blowing out his knee in 2006.

Oh wait. That ended up bad.

Would it have been better for Dirk to have not made it at all to than to perform the free-fall that was the 2006 finals?

Hmmm..interesting. I await your thoughts.

[da_suns_fan_]

Nash should be eternally grateful to Mike D'Antoni for making him look better than he actually is.

Dirk should be eternally grateful to Amare for blowing out his knee in 2006.

Oh wait. That ended up bad.

Would it have been better for Dirk to have not made it at all to than to perform the free-fall that was the 2006 finals?

Hmmm..interesting. I await your thoughts.

[da_suns_fan]

Monos is gay.

Monos is gay.

Monos is gay.

[da_suns_fan]

Monos wants to be like DSF.

[da_suns_fan_]

Monos is gay.

Monos is gay.

Monos is gay.

[da_suns_fan]

Monos sucks of Findog.

[da_suns_fan_]

Monos wants to be like DSF.

[da_suns_fan_]

Monos sucks of Findog.

[Findog]

Umm...no. Did Dirk finish first or second in MVP voting three straight seasons?

Dirk is and has been for quite some time one of the top 10 players in the League. Nash at his best was barely on the periphery of that and couldn't maintain it. And who cares about MVP awards? Kobe, Duncan, Wade and Lebron were all better players than Dirk or Nash in that timespan. If they didn't win it, then the award is meaningless.




No? Why not? Nash did!

I guess those sports writers are clueless when it comes to the most valuable player.

Yes, most writers are clueless. I'll go with results on the court, not popularity contests. Dirk took a talented Mavs team to a Finals berth. Nash had more talent in Phoenix and couldn't make it out of the West.

Nash was probably the biggest reason the Suns went from 29 wins in 2004 to 62 in 2005, but the 2004 Suns traded away their PG early in the season and lost Amare to injuries for another huge stretch. Marbury wasn't what he was now, but a guy who was good enough to take the 2003 Suns to the playoffs. The MVP award almost always goes to the best player on the best regular-season team. That's why Nash won it in 2005 and it's why Dirk won it in 2007.



And do you honestly believe Dirk will be remembered as anything but a choker?


Considering he's not a choker, uh yeah, he'll go down as the greatest foreign player of all time. Kemp's legacy is a high-flying big man. Payton's legacy is one of the best PGs of all-time. Nobody considers their legacy to be losing to the Nuggets.



The big German will go down as history as the greatest choker in the history of basketball. For which season you may ask?

That's the duh_suns_fan I remember. He played great against Miami, but Wade was better. Kind of how Nash played great against Dallas in 2006 but Dirk was better. There's no shame in admitting Wade is a better player than Dirk, or Dirk is a better player than Nash. As for the Warriors series, he put up 19 and 10 on a bum foot. If he's healthy, the Mavs win that series.


Like I pointed out earlier..."The Dirk Nowitzki of" is usually a reference to something bad.

Only to dipshits like yourself. Nash was a very good player, Dirk is a great player. That must smart for you that the Suns chose to build their team around a one-dimensional PG.

[da_suns_fan_]

of

[da_suns_fan_]

lol, "of"

[da_suns_fan_]

My Arizona State education hard at work! "of" lol

[da_suns_fan]

DSF wins this one. Im out.

[da_suns_fan_]

Monos sucks of Findog.

lol of

[da_suns_fan_]

DSF wins this one. Im out.

[Findog]

Would it have been better for Dirk to have not made it at all to than to perform the free-fall that was the 2006 finals?

Hmmm..interesting. I await your thoughts.

Dirk's Finals performance was good, Wade's was better. Did you watch the 2006 Finals? Wade sucked the first two games of that series, Dirk sucked the middle two games of that series, and they were both tremendous in Games 5 and 6. Dirk scored his points from the floor, Wade got his at the line. If you think Dirk's Finals performance is something to be ashamed of, then you didn't watch it.

[da_suns_fan]

Dirk's Finals performance was good, Wade's was better. Did you watch the 2006 Finals? Wade sucked the first two games of that series, Dirk sucked the middle two games of that series, and they were both tremendous in Games 5 and 6. Dirk scored his points from the floor, Wade got his at the line. If you think Dirk's Finals performance is something to be ashamed of, then you didn't watch it.

Buddy, for your sake I'd give this one up. Youre going to be repeating this crap for a very...long....time. Its not just me you gotta convince. EVERYONE knows that Dirk choked. You cant go up 2-0, be up by...16...17 in the fourth of game 3 and end up losing in six games (on your home floor no less) and NOT be labeled as a choker.

If that werent bad enough, being the number one seed and lose to an eighth seed in a seven game series cemented it. You cant have back to back years like Dirk and expect to be have a positive legacy. He would have to lead a team to a title before he retires just to SOMEWHAT redeem himself and that aint happening.

[Findog]

Buddy, for your sake I'd give this one up. Youre going to be making repeating this crap for a very...long....time. Its not just me you gotta convince. EVERYONE knows that Dirk choked. You cant go up 2-0, be up by...16...17 in the fourth of game 3 and end up losing in six games (on your home floor no less) and NOT be labeled as a choker.


Did you watch Games 5 and 6 of the Finals? That is NOT choking. If you don't know what you're talking about, then you had best shut up and defer to those that do. What do you call that tough runner over Shaq at the end of Game 5 before Wade was bailed out by Salvatore at the other end? What do you call 29 points and 15 rebounds in Game 6? You don't call it choking. He was very good, Wade was great. Simple as that.



If that werent bad enough, being the number one seed and lose to an eighth seed in a seven game series cemented it. You cant have back to back years like Dirk and expect to be have a positive legacy. He would have to lead a team to a title before he retires just to SOMEWHAT redeem himself and that aint happening.

He was hurt in that series and played anyways because his team had no chance to win without him. And he's already cemented a positive legacy. Best foreign player of all time, one regular season MVP, one Finals appearance. But why would I be surprised that you think that doesn't count as a positive legacy? You think Nash is a better player than Dirk. You think teams would be more successful building around Nash than Dirk. The results don't bear that out. Dirk accomplished more than Nash and with less around him.

Zach Randolph will not have a positive legacy. Stephon Marbury will not have a positive legacy. Tracy McGrady will not have a positive legacy. As of this moment, Vince Carter will not have a positive legacy. You're delusional if you think Dirk won't.

[Findog]

All I know is Dirk won a Western Conference title with Jason Terry and Josh Howard (1 All Star injury replacement selection between them) as his two best sidekicks. Nash couldn't make it out of the West with Amare, Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion, or Amare, Marion, Diaw and Bell.

[da_suns_fan]

My Arizona State education hard at work! "of" lol

WHOA! What happened to the "repeater" game? I didnt type that!

You couldnt RESIST pointing out my typo, huh Monos?!

Fucking loser!

[da_suns_fan]

All I know is Dirk won a Western Conference title with Jason Terry and Josh Howard (1 All Star injury replacement selection between them) as his two best sidekicks. Nash couldn't make it out of the West with Amare, Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion, or Amare, Marion, Diaw and Bell.

Actually Joe Johnson was out in 2005 against the Spurs and Amare and Diaw were suspended in 2007. What else ya got? :lol

[da_suns_fan]

Did you watch Games 5 and 6 of the Finals? That is NOT choking. If you don't know what you're talking about, then you had best shut up and defer to those that do. What do you call that tough runner over Shaq at the end of Game 5 before Wade was bailed out by Salvatore at the other end? What do you call 29 points and 15 rebounds in Game 6? You don't call it choking. He was very good, Wade was great. Simple as that.




He was hurt in that series and played anyways because his team had no chance to win without him. And he's already cemented a positive legacy. Best foreign player of all time, one regular season MVP, one Finals appearance. But why would I be surprised that you think that doesn't count as a positive legacy? You think Nash is a better player than Dirk. You think teams would be more successful building around Nash than Dirk. The results don't bear that out. Dirk accomplished more than Nash and with less around him.

Zach Randolph will not have a positive legacy. Stephon Marbury will not have a positive legacy. Tracy McGrady will not have a positive legacy. As of this moment, Vince Carter will not have a positive legacy. You're delusional if you think Dirk won't.

Did you know that Byung-Hyun Kim didnt choke in the 2001 world series? He pitched some good innings, the Yankees just got some good hits! :lol

[Findog]

Actually Joe Johnson was out in 2005 against the Spurs

No, he wasn't. He only missed the first two games.



and Amare and Diaw were suspended in 2007. What else ya got?

For the whole series? Yeah, you're right, the Spurs couldn't possibly beat the Suns w/o those guys. :rolleyes They went 3-2 in that series when those guys played and 1-0 when they didn't. If the Suns were so superior to San Antonio with their full complement of players, then why the fuck did they go down by 20 points on the road in an elimination game?

Face it, if Amare and Diaw didn't have the presence of mind to remember a rule that every player gets drilled into them over and over and over and over and over again (DON'T LEAVE THE BENCH), then it doesn't bode well for the kind of poise they would have in a Game 7 against a veteran, 3-time champ

[Findog]

Did you know that Byung-Hyun Kim didnt choke in the 2001 world series? He pitched some good innings, the Yankees just got some good hits! :lol

Irrelevant jibe about baseball instead of rebutting my argument. Good job :toast

[mavs>spurs2]

Fin, 2006 had more to do with bullshit whistles than Wade's "greatness" although I feel he's the 2nd best player in the league and a great player

[Findog]

Fin, 2006 had more to do with bullshit whistles than Wade's "greatness" although I feel he's the 2nd best player in the league and a great player

It's just funny how people say Dirk choked w/o watching that series. He missed a FT at the end of Game 3 that would've sent the game to overtime when they were down by a point. If you want to say he choked that free throw, fine, I'll concede that. But you can't win or lose a series on a single free throw in Game 3. There's no guarantee they pull out that game in overtime on the road even if he had made it. There's no guarantee they win the series even if they had gone up 3-0. The Blazers rallied back from down 0-3 in 2003 against Dallas (who started GOAT Steve Nash :rolleyes at PG) and Game 7 was a nail-biting, back and forth affair.

What hurt Dallas more than anything was the no-show in Game 4 against Miami. That was a team-wide lack of effort; you can't put that all on Dirk. You just can't afford to give away games in a series, and they did.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

lol DSF
lol ASU education

[da_suns_fan]

How is THIS not choking?

Y7cG9NrfhM0[/QUOTE]

[Findog]

And to clarify, I'm not a Nash hater. Loved the guy when he was with the Mavs, and respect all that he did with Phoenix. But it's folly to think he's a better player than Dirk.

[da_suns_fan]

No, he wasn't. He only missed the first two games.



For the whole series? Yeah, you're right, the Spurs couldn't possibly beat the Suns w/o those guys. :rolleyes They went 3-2 in that series when those guys played and 1-0 when they didn't. If the Suns were so superior to San Antonio with their full complement of players, then why the fuck did they go down by 20 points on the road in an elimination game?

Face it, if Amare and Diaw didn't have the presence of mind to remember a rule that every player gets drilled into them over and over and over and over and over again (DON'T LEAVE THE BENCH), then it doesn't bode well for the kind of poise they would have in a Game 7 against a veteran, 3-time champ

:lol

Doesnt matter about Amare and Diaw's brain fart, does it? The point is you said he couldnt win WITH those guys. But he didnt exactly "have" those guys for the whole series now, did he?

Owned AGAIN, Findog. Just like ol' times.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Look junior, stick to the uninformed Nash smack.


:lmao calling me junior.

You still have yet to reveal how old you are Mr. know-it-all.

[da_suns_fan]

lol DSF
lol ASU education

Whats funny about ASU? Do you have anything else to add?

[da_suns_fan]

:lmao calling me junior.

You still have yet to reveal how old you are Mr. know-it-all.

:lol

Im 28. I didnt know you asked.

[Findog]

How is THIS not choking?

Y7cG9NrfhM0

He choked a single FT, but it's folly to say he choked away that series. You can't win or lose a series on a single FT unless it's at the very end of a Game 7. That FT would've sent the game to OT, it's not like it would've clinched a win for Dallas and the Heat came from behind to win.

How is this choking?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200606200DAL.html

Nobody else showed up for Dallas that night.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Whats funny about ASU?


It's not even a real college.....it's just a big high school.

[Findog]

:lol

Doesnt matter about Amare and Diaw's brain fart, does it? The point is you said he couldnt win WITH those guys. But he didnt exactly "have" those guys for the whole series now, did he?

By way of comparison, Jason Terry punched Michael Finley in the nuts and got suspended for a pivotal Game 6 against the Spurs. The Mavs found themselves in the exact same situation as Phoenix did, needing a win in San Antonio to keep their season alive, and just like the Suns, they had their full complement of players. Dirk got it done, Nash couldn't.

You call this choking?

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[da_suns_fan]

It's not even a real college.....it's just a big high school.

I would say more of "a big anonymous institution". It was NOTHING like high school. That is unless you went to high school where there was 300+ students in most of your core classes.

But my sister and brother in law went to U of A in Tucson. Now THERES a shitty town. The campus is nice enough but Tucson SUCKS. Its kind of like El Paso. There is NOTHING to do.

[Findog]

I mean, you would think dsf would have a little more respect for a guy that consistently rapes his team:

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Unless he wants to undermine his arguments about how "great" the SSOL teams were and concede that even I could probably score 20 a game with Nash "guarding" me. :rollin

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lol

Im 28. I didnt know you asked.



ANYONE could look up Suns statistics and answer YOUR question (its Walter Davis, btw...I actually saw him play and I could tell you the retired his number in a game against the Nuggets).


So you were born in 1980 or 1981. I was born in 1990. Walter Davis' last game as a Sun was in 1988. KJ's last real game (not counting that comeback season) was in 1998. If you get to say you watched Walter Davis, then I get to say I watched Kevin Johnson, even though the only footage of him I remember was watching a re-run.

[da_suns_fan]

By way of comparison, Jason Terry punched Michael Finley in the nuts and got suspended for a pivotal Game 6 against the Spurs. The Mavs found themselves in the exact same situation as Phoenix did, needing a win in San Antonio to keep their season alive, and just like the Suns, they had their full complement of players. Dirk got it done, Nash couldn't.

You call this choking?

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Did you just compare Jason Terry to Amare Stoudemire PLUS Boris Diaw? :lol

Or is losing Jason Terry for one game the equivalent of losing Joe Johnson for two?

I dont have to defend Nash. Everyone knows and still talks about the Suns being the best team in the NBA in 2007 (usually its Ric Bucher on Bill Simmons' podcasts).

Besides, theres no shame in losing to the San Antonio Spurs. They won FOUR titles. But the 2006 Heat?! The 2007 WARRIORS?!!! Come on, now!:lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But my sister and brother in law went to U of A in Tucson. Now THERES a shitty town. The campus is nice enough but Tucson SUCKS. Its kind of like El Paso. There is NOTHING to do.


I've never been to El Paso but Tucson is a shit hole.

[da_suns_fan]

So you were born in 1980 or 1981. I was born in 1990. Walter Davis' last game as a Sun was in 1988. KJ's last real game (not counting that comeback season) was in 1998. If you get to say you watched Walter Davis, then I get to say I watched Kevin Johnson, even though the only footage of him I remember was watching a re-run.

THe difference is, I wont EVER bring up Walter Davis in discussion even though I actually REMEMBER watching him play (as early as I was six).

I was too young to be able to form an opinion. This is why when you bring up Kevin Johnson, I just roll my eyes.

[Findog]

Did you just compare Jason Terry to Amare Stoudemire PLUS Boris Diaw? :lol

You just admitted that Dirk got further with a lesser supporting cast.:toast



Or is losing Jason Terry for one game the equivalent of losing Joe Johnson for two?

If the Suns were better than the Spurs, then they would've won Game 6 and Game 7. They were 2-3 against the Spurs with their full complement of players. You have to win MORE games against your opponents to advance, btw.

Championship teams by definition win must-win games. Game 6 was a must-win game and they didn't win it. You obviously didn't get the point of that juxtaposition. When Dirk's team had to win a game in San Antonio, they got it done. Nash and company, on the other hand, got their asses handed to them.


I dont have to defend Nash. You do if you want to argue he's better than Dirk.


Everyone knows and still talks about the Suns being the best team in the NBA in 2007 (usually its Ric Bucher on Bill Simmons' podcasts).

Gee, there's a real meeting of the minds for you. I got news for you, the Spurs were the best team in 2007 and they proved it by winning the championship. But at least the Suns have the "Ric Bucher's Most Favorite Team EVAR" trophy :lol


Besides, theres no shame in losing to the San Antonio Spurs They won FOUR titles. But the 2006 Heat?!

Hmm, Shaq + dominant perimeter player + veteran role players + hall of fame coach. Yeah, where did we see that before?



The 2007 WARRIORS?!!! Come on, now!

The Mavs weren't beating anybody with their best player hobbled by a bum foot. Doesn't matter had they beaten Golden State, they surely couldn't have beaten any playoff team with their best player playing hurt. No shame in that either.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

THe difference is, I wont EVER bring up Walter Davis in discussion even though I actually REMEMBER watching him play (as early as I was six).


And I remember being at the game watching the Suns be only one of ten teams to beat the Bulls in 1996. Big fuckin deal.

[da_suns_fan]

Last one Findog.

The Suns didnt have Joe Johnson in 2005. And Steve Nash STILL led them to victory over Dirk and the Mavs! All he needed was Amare, Shawn Marion and Q. Richardson.

I think that was the closest both teams ever came to playing each other perfectly healthy (even though the Suns were missing a starter in Joe Johnson). And the Suns ended it in six.

Game. Set. Match.

[Findog]

Last one Findog.

The Suns didnt have Joe Johnson in 2005. And Steve Nash STILL led them to victory over Dirk and the Mavs! All he needed was Amare, Shawn Marion and Q. Richardson.

The 2005 Mavs were not a championship-caliber team. So what's your point?

[da_suns_fan]

And I remember being at the game watching the Suns be only one of ten teams to beat the Bulls in 1996. Big fuckin deal.

:lol

Again, were you five? How do you say so "matter of factly" that KJ was better than ANYONE?

I remember that game very well. Barkley stole an in-bounds pass to win it and Rodman choked at the free throw line. The Bulls were also up by like 16 in the first quarter. My Spanish teach in HS asked what the final score was the next day in class for our daily quiz.

[da_suns_fan_]

WHOA! What happened to the "repeater" game? I didnt type that!

You couldnt RESIST pointing out my typo, huh Monos?!

Fucking loser!

Wow, that "repeater" game really must have bothered you.

[da_suns_fan]

The 2005 Mavs were not a championship-caliber team. So what's your point?

They werent? WHY NOT? They had the same roster in 2005 as they had in 2006, didnt they? What major trade/free-agent did the Mavs get in the summer of 2005?

So 2005 "doesnt count" in the Dirk vs. Nash debate?!! :lol

Remember Dirk crying at Terry for playing Nash for the two just so Nash could drain the game tying three in his face? Great game!

Also, didnt Marion (since Amare had fouled out) have like ten straight points running the same pick n roll play over and over again in overtime? No Stoudemire, no Joe Johnson, and Dirk STILL couldnt beat Nash!!! He had Marion, Q and that was it!!!

[dickface]

How do you say so "matter of factly" that KJ was better than ANYONE?

So by that same logic, you'd agree that there's no way you could say Wilt Chamberlain was better than anyone.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lol

Again, were you five? How do you say so "matter of factly" that KJ was better than ANYONE?

I remember that game very well. Barkley stole an in-bounds pass to win it and Rodman choked at the free throw line. The Bulls were also up by like 16 in the first quarter. My Spanish teach in HS asked what the final score was the next day in class for our daily quiz.


I was 6 but that doesn't matter. My point is, I remember just as much about that game as you do about Walter Davis when you were 6.


And I can say KJ was better than Nash because he's statistically superior in virtually every category, and this is a wild guess, but I'm going to assume he was a better defender than Nash. Nash being lucky enough to play in a stat-inflating system during a fluke 3 year period when he had horrible MVP competition doesn't make him better than KJ.

[da_suns_fan]

Wow, that "repeater" game really must have bothered you.

Not as much as the DiCaprio smack obviously bothered YOU.

Tell me monos, how many DiCaprio films have you watched THIS WEEK?

Seriously. Tell me the honest number.

[dickface]

What major trade/free-agent did the Mavs get in the summer of 2005?

Doug Christie. owned.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lmao @ dickface's new avatar.

[da_suns_fan_]

Not as much as the DiCaprio smack obviously bothered YOU.

so you admit it bothered you. thanks.

[da_suns_fan]

I was 6. My point is, I remember just as much about that game as you do about Walter Davis when you were 6.


And I can say KJ was better than Nash because he's statistically superior in virtually every category, and this is a wild guess, but I'm going to assume he was a better defender than Nash. Nash being lucky enough to play in a stat-inflating system during a fluke 3 year period when he had horrible MVP competition doesn't make him better than KJ.

Again, you miss the point. I dont bring up Walter Davis cuz I was too young to form an opinion when he played. Thus, your comments of KJ dont hold a lot of weight since you were too young when he played.

Like I said, stick to the uniformed Nash smack.

[dickface]

I dont bring up Walter Davis cuz I was too young to form an opinion when he played.

And by that same token you never mention Wilt Chamberlain among the all-time greats. How could you? You never saw him play.

[da_suns_fan]

Doug Christie. owned.

Only Monos could possibly consider Doug Christie a major free agent/trade.

Oh I see. He only played seven games. Youre just being a jackass.

Between "the repeater" and "Doug Christie", your waving the proverbial white flag in every argument Monos.

[Goran Dragic]

Like I said, stick to the uniformed Nash smack.

I'd like to see Nash lead his team to the semi-finals of the FIBA tournament.

[Findog]

They werent? WHY NOT? They had the same roster in 2005 as they had in 2006, didnt they?

Uh, no.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2005.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2006.html

It's really not hard to look this stuff up.




What major trade/free-agent did the Mavs get in the summer of 2005?

Well, for starters, they played a full 82 games under Avery and had a full training camp and season to learn and implement his system, which emphasized defense and getting stops....quite different from the all offense/no defense style Nellie employed, which was similar to D'Antoni in Phoenix.

The Nellie/Avery team gave up 97 points a game. The Avery team gave up 93 a game, quite a bit stingier. Avery put the "D" back in Dallas.


So 2005 "doesnt count" in the Dirk vs. Nash debate?!! :lol

The 05 Suns were better than the 05 Mavs. That's like saying Steve Nash is better than Kobe Bryant because they always beat the Lakers in the playoffs.


Remember Dirk crying at Terry for playing Nash for the two just so Nash could drain the game tying three in his face? Great game!

Also, didnt Marion (since Amare had fouled out) have like ten straight points running the same pick n roll play over and over again in overtime? No Stoudemire, no Joe Johnson, and Dirk STILL couldnt beat Nash!!! He had Marion, Q and that was it!!!

Wow, you sure are masturbating a lot over that series, and I can understand why. It's the only impressive thing the SSOL Suns ever did, beating a 58-win team in the playoffs. Beating the Grizz and the two LA teams just didn't have quite the same cache.

[Spencer Pratt]

Bros, Steve Nash is like the bitchinest-est homey on Earth! He's my favorite player of all-time, he's tied with Kobe and Shaq and LeBron and Jordan and Magic! I'm a diehard Lakers/Suns/Cavs/Bulls fan!

[da_suns_fan_]

Between "the repeater" and "Doug Christie", your waving the proverbial white flag in every argument Monos.

If I knew the "repeater" game was going to bother you this much I wouldn't have done it.

[Goran Dragic]

Wow, you sure are masturbating a lot over that series, and I can understand why. It's the only impressive thing the SSOL Suns ever did, beating a 58-win team in the playoffs. Beating the Grizz and the two LA teams just didn't have quite the same cache.


Don't worry, the Goran "WHITE MAGIC" Dragic Suns will accomplish a lot more.

[Goran Dragic]

The 05 Suns were better than the 05 Mavs. That's like saying Steve Nash is better than Kobe Bryant because they always beat the Lakers in the playoffs.


Nash is more popular so....


White Magic > No-D-Steve > rapist

[Findog]

I mean, if I wanted to, I could make all sorts of pathetic excuses like dsf does for his beloved Suns losing to the Spurs in 2007:


....if only Jason Terry had checked Nash coming across the mid-court line, then the Mavs would've DEFINITELY gone on to beat Phoenix in Game 7.

[da_suns_fan]

Uh, no.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2005.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2006.html

It's really not hard to look this stuff up.





Well, for starters, they played a full 82 games under Avery and had a full training camp and season to learn and implement his system, which emphasized defense and getting stops....quite different from the all offense/no defense style Nellie employed, which was similar to D'Antoni in Phoenix.

The Nellie/Avery team gave up 97 points a game. The Avery team gave up 93 a game, quite a bit stingier. Avery put the "D" back in Dallas.



The 05 Suns were better than the 05 Mavs. That's like saying Steve Nash is better than Kobe Bryant because they always beat the Lakers in the playoffs.



Wow, you sure are masturbating a lot over that series, and I can understand why. It's the only impressive thing the SSOL Suns ever did, beating a 58-win team in the playoffs. Beating the Grizz and the two LA teams just didn't have quite the same cache.

So I just looked at your links. What am I suppose to be looking at? Howard? Hes on both teams. Same as Dirk, Dampier, Jerry Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Devin Harris and even Darrel Armstrong. Its pretty much the exact same thing.

And youre "Stretching" with your reasoning. Bottom line is Nash lost Amare, Kurt Thomas and even Raja Bell and it still took Dirk and the Mavs six games to beat the Suns. The Suns were starting Tim Thomas who they had just picked up six weeks before. Thats how freaking awesome Nash was. Give him your scrubs, he'll take the best teams to six games or more.

[monosylab1k]

Thats how freaking awesome Nash was. Give him your scrubs, he'll take the best teams to six games or more.

and then lose.

[da_suns_fan]

and then lose.

Heyyyyy! Monos has dropped that aliases.

btw - Whats that say about Dirk, who goes up against a depleted Suns team in 2005 and STILL loses! :lol

Nash FTW.

[Findog]

So I just looked at your links. What am I suppose to be looking at? Howard? Hes on both teams. Same as Dirk, Dampier, Jerry Stackhouse, Jason Terry, Devin Harris and even Darrel Armstrong. Its pretty much the exact same thing.

About 80% of the same personnel...funny ain't it how the 2006 Mavs had Avery's system in place for a full year, put more of an emphasis on defense and came within 2 wins of a title, whereas before they couldn't make it out of the West with Nellie's approach? I'm sure that's a coincidence.

[Steve_Nash]

:cry "Joe Johnson was hurt" :cry "Amare was hurt" :cry "Robert Horry is a meanie" :cry "The NBA enforced something in the rulebook" :cry "Shaq is here" :cry "Terry Porter is here" :cry


:flipoff

[resistanze]

All this shit being discussed is becoming more and more irrelevant.

Dirk > Nash. That is all.

[da_suns_fan]

About 80% of the same personnel...funny ain't it how the 2006 Mavs had Avery's system in place for a full year, put more of an emphasis on defense and came within 2 wins of a title, whereas before they couldn't make it out of the West with Nellie's approach? I'm sure that's a coincidence.

So the Nash beats Dirk in overtime of game 6 of the WCF, in Dallas, no Amare (fouled out), no Joe Johnson (broken skull), and only two decent teammates (Marion and Q) against a completely healthy Dallas team and you really want to argue that Dirk is better? You want to chalk it up to defensive philosophy that held Dirk back?

I mean, seriously. If Dirk is so great, how the fuck did THAT happen?

I'll tell you why: Cuz Nash was freaking awesome! :lol

[Findog]

So the Nash beats Dirk in overtime of game 6 of the WCF, in Dallas, no Amare (fouled out), no Joe Johnson (broken skull), and only two decent teammates (Marion and Q) against a completely healthy Dallas team and you really want to argue that Dirk is better? You want to chalk it up to defensive philosophy that held Dirk back?

I mean, seriously. If Dirk is so great, how the fuck did THAT happen?



I'm arguing that the 06 Mavs were better than the 05 Mavs. If you want to rebut that, then go ahead and try. I'd like to see your reasoning.

[Findog]

All this shit being discussed is becoming more and more irrelevant.

Dirk > Nash. That is all.

I agree. You can lock the thread.

[da_suns_fan]

You know what the best part is? Its easy to win this argument cuz Im right. If Dirk was better he would have easily defeated Nash when Nash was playing with a depleted squad.

But in one case, he LOST, and in the other Dirk needed not one injury, not two injuries, not even THREE injuries. Lets not forget Raja Bell's bizzare calf injury that kept him out for two games and left him unable to run for the rest of the series!!! The Suns were starting James Jones and Tim Thomas and Nash still took Dirk and the Mavs to six games.

Nash kept fighting and wouldnt quit.

Compare this to Dirk who lost to lesser teams year after year.

Nash is the real life Rocky Balboa. Dirk gave European players a bad name. Nash FTW.

Geez Im good.

[resistanze]

I agree. You can lock the thread.

On second thought, DSF's comparison of Nash to Rocky Balboa may have changed my mind...

[resistanze]

The thing is though, Rocky probably would've gotten past the Conference Finals.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Nash is the real life Rocky Balboa.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200904050DAL.html

Rocky Balboa wouldn't let this happen.

[da_suns_fan]

Dont get too upset, Findog.

In the end, Im sad cuz its all over. The great teams of Marion, Stoudemire, Bell, KT and Joe Johnson are GONE forever and Im stuck with Channing Fucking Frye as a starter this year.

My team was gutted for financial flexibility. You know how much I wish we just had Boris Diaw and Raja Bell back? You know how worthless I think Jason Richardson is? Do you have any clue the malaise the ardent Suns fan base is in right now? We're hoping just to make the playoffs.

And as much as I hate it, at least your team made it to the finals. Do you know whats it like to watch the Lakers return to the finals when we never got to go? To feel "leap-frogged" in the span of half a season by half the teams in the league?

Maybe Im drinking too much.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Dont get too upset, Findog.

In the end, Im sad cuz its all over. The great teams of Marion, Stoudemire, Bell, KT and Joe Johnson are GONE forever and Im stuck with Channing Fucking Frye as a starter this year.

My team was gutted for financial flexibility. You know how much I wish we just had Boris Diaw and Raja Bell back? You know how worthless I think Jason Richardson is? Do you have any clue the malaise the ardent Suns fan base is in right now? We're hoping just to make the playoffs.

And as much as I hate it, at least your team made it to the finals. Do you know whats it like to watch the Lakers return to the finals when we never got to go? To feel "leap-frogged" in the span of half a season by half the teams in the league?

Maybe Im drinking too much.


The team's window was LOOOOOOOOONG shut by the time Doris and Raja got traded.

[da_suns_fan]

On second thought, DSF's comparison of Nash to Rocky Balboa may have changed my mind...

Its a good comparison, isnt it?

What NBA player had Rocky's heart? Nash gets his face busted open, needs rubber cement to temporarily stop the bleeding and then proceeds to drill back to back three pointers to tie the game!

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What NBA player had Rocky's heart?


Certainly someone capable of holding a 36 year old Jason Kidd below 19 points and 20 assists.

[da_suns_fan]

rM0ndgMMVEA

Un-fucking-believable.

How do you even begin to show your appreciation as a fan for this type of toughness? Throw money on the floor? (Bill Simmons rip-off)

[Findog]

You know what the best part is? Its easy to win this argument cuz Im right. If Dirk was better he would have easily defeated Nash when Nash was playing with a depleted squad.

That wasn't that close of a series. The Suns coughed up a 20 point lead at home in G6. I seem to recall Dirk dropping 50 on the Suns in Game 5 and Dallas winning easily. The only reason that series went past 5 games is because Dallas took Phoenix too lightly in Game 1 and were too pleased with themselves after finally beating San Antonio.

Dirk took less talented teams further than Nash. You can't possibly win this argument because you're trying to say up is down and down is up.

[Findog]

Dont get too upset, Findog.



Why would I be? A team built around Dirk has lasted longer, because he's younger and a better player than Nash. It's not likely that the Mavs will win a title this year, but they're a darkhorse possibility.

[resistanze]

Remember when Drago hip-checked Rocky and he flopped his way to defeat in the USSR?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

My team was gutted for financial flexibility.


It was gutted because once the 2007 season was over, that team wasn't going to win jack shit.

Unfortunately, fans whining and bitching about how much they miss the run and gun Suns has pressured Kerr and Sarver into doing stupid things.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

How do you even begin to show your appreciation as a fan for this type of toughness?


I showed my appreciation, over two years ago, WHEN IT HAPPENED.

Quit living in the past. What the fuck does two back to back threes hit in a game the Suns lost over two years ago have to do with the present day Suns AT ALL?

[da_suns_fan]

It was gutted because once the 2007 season was over, that team wasn't going to win jack shit.

Unfortunately, fans whining and bitching about how much they miss the run and gun Suns has pressured Kerr and Sarver into doing stupid things.

The dumbest move they made was trading for Shaq.

I remember my buddy calling me the night before asking me if I thought the rumor was true and I said "No way. Shaq is DONE and he has three years left on that ridiculous contract. Theres no way theyre THAT stupid".

But they were! And now we are paying 15 million bucks for nobody! In essence, we are paying for Miami's 2006 title.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What I've learned from this thread:

The Suns should throw away the next 3 seasons with a mediocre team build around Nash as a tribute to him in order to show gratitude for the back to back threes he hit in order to make it so the Suns lost by 5 rather than 11.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The dumbest move they made was trading for Shaq.


The team they had prior to the Shaq trade didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning the title in 2008. Yeah, I know they had the best record in the West at the time, but.......their schedule was incredibly weak, they were 5-9 against the other top 8 teams in the West at the time of the Shaq trade, and every big man they played against was dropping a career high.

Was the Shaq trade good? No. Is it to blame for the collapse of the team? Hell no.

[da_suns_fan]

I showed my appreciation, over two years ago, WHEN IT HAPPENED.

Quit living in the past. What the fuck does two back to back threes hit in a game the Suns lost over two years ago have to do with the present day Suns AT ALL?

Umm....are you new to this thread? Are you not understanding the context of the thread question?

Are you really asking me this question?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Umm....are you new to this thread? Are you not understanding the context of the thread question?

Are you really asking me this question?


Yes I am. I'm done arguing about Dirk vs. Nash. I could really give a flying fuck about it. You seem to be jizzing yourself about stuff Nash did over two years ago, I'm just asking you an honest question. Are you saying that Nash's 2005-2007 seasons properly justify the extension he just received over two years after the fact?

[Findog]

You know what the best part is? Its easy to win this argument cuz Im right. If Kobe was better he would have easily defeated Nash when Nash was playing with a depleted squad.

[Ghazi]

*sigh*

Thread would be blasphemy if it wasn't for Salvatore and J-Ho's missed free throws.


My poor poor Dirk :(

[anonoftheinternets]

*sigh*

Thread would be blasphemy if it wasn't for Salvatore and J-Ho's missed free throws.


My poor poor Dirk :(

dirk doesnt give a fuck about you. He has made millions, and is extremely successful, one of the best of our generation. So save your sympathy.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

dirk doesnt give a fuck about you. He has made millions, and is extremely successful, one of the best of our generation. So save your sympathy.


:lmao:lmao:lmao

[stretch]

lol of

[picc84]

*sigh*

Thread would be blasphemy if it wasn't for Salvatore and J-Ho's missed free throws.


Or Dirks free throw, IIRC.

[da_suns_fan]

Or Dirks free throw, IIRC.

You remember correctly:

Y7cG9NrfhM0

[stretch]

lol dsf