45% of doctors may quit under Obamacare

[DarrinS]

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199




Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found.

The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby — the powerful American Medical Association — both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul.

It also calls into question whether an overhaul is even doable; 72% of the doctors polled disagree with the administration's claim that the government can cover 47 million more people with better-quality care at lower cost.

The IBD/TIPP Poll was conducted by mail the past two weeks, with 1,376 practicing physicians chosen randomly throughout the country taking part. Responses are still coming in, and doctors' positions on related topics — including the impact of an overhaul on senior care, medical school applications and drug development — will be covered later in this series.

Major findings included:

• Two-thirds, or 65%, of doctors say they oppose the proposed government expansion plan. This contradicts the administration's claims that doctors are part of an "unprecedented coalition" supporting a medical overhaul.

It also differs with findings of a poll released Monday by National Public Radio that suggests a "majority of physicians want public and private insurance options," and clashes with media reports such as Tuesday's front-page story in the Los Angeles Times with the headline "Doctors Go For Obama's Reform."

Nowhere in the Times story does it say doctors as a whole back the overhaul. It says only that the AMA — the "association representing the nation's physicians" and what "many still regard as the country's premier lobbying force" — is "lobbying and advertising to win public support for President Obama's sweeping plan."

The AMA, in fact, represents approximately 18% of physicians and has been hit with a number of defections by members opposed to the AMA's support of Democrats' proposed health care overhaul.

• Four of nine doctors, or 45%, said they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passes the plan the Democratic majority and White House have in mind.

More than 800,000 doctors were practicing in 2006, the government says. Projecting the poll's finding onto that population, 360,000 doctors would consider quitting.

• More than seven in 10 doctors, or 71% — the most lopsided response in the poll — answered "no" when asked if they believed "the government can cover 47 million more people and that it will cost less money and the quality of care will be better."

This response is consistent with critics who complain that the administration and congressional Democrats have yet to explain how, even with the current number of physicians and nurses, they can cover more people and lower the cost at the same time.

The only way, the critics contend, is by rationing care — giving it to some and denying it to others. That cuts against another claim by plan supporters — that care would be better.

IBD/TIPP's finding that many doctors could leave the business suggests that such rationing could be more severe than even critics believe. Rationing is one of the drawbacks associated with government plans in countries such as Canada and the U.K. Stories about growing waiting lists for badly needed care, horror stories of care gone wrong, babies born on sidewalks, and even people dying as a result of care delayed or denied are rife.

In this country, the number of doctors is already lagging population growth.

From 2003 to 2006, the number of active physicians in the U.S. grew by just 0.8% a year, adding a total of 25,700 doctors.

Recent population growth has been 1% a year. Patients, in short, are already being added faster than physicians, creating a medical bottleneck.

The great concern is that, with increased mandates, lower pay and less freedom to practice, doctors could abandon medicine in droves, as the IBD/TIPP Poll suggests. Under the proposed medical overhaul, an additional 47 million people would have to be cared for — an 18% increase in patient loads, without an equivalent increase in doctors. The actual effect could be somewhat less because a significant share of the uninsured already get care.

Even so, the government vows to cut hundreds of billions of dollars from health care spending to pay for reform, which would encourage a flight from the profession.

The U.S. today has just 2.4 physicians per 1,000 population — below the median of 3.1 for members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the official club of wealthy nations.

Adding millions of patients to physicians' caseloads would threaten to overwhelm the system. Medical gatekeepers would have to deny care to large numbers of people. That means care would have to be rationed.

"It's like giving everyone free bus passes, but there are only two buses," Dr. Ted Epperly, president of the American Academy of Family Physicians, told the Associated Press.

Hope for a surge in new doctors may be misplaced. A recent study from the Association of American Medical Colleges found steadily declining enrollment in medical schools since 1980.

The study found that, just with current patient demand, the U.S. will have 159,000 fewer doctors than it needs by 2025. Unless corrected, that would make some sort of medical rationing or long waiting lists almost mandatory.

Experiments at the state level show that an overhaul isn't likely to change much.

On Monday came word from the Massachusetts Medical Society — a group representing physicians in a state that has implemented an overhaul similar to that under consideration in Washington — that doctor shortages remain a growing problem.

Its 2009 Physician Workforce Study found that:

• The primary care specialties of family medicine and internal medicine are in short supply for a fourth straight year.

• The percentage of primary care practices closed to new patients is the highest ever recorded.

• Seven of 18 specialties — dermatology, neurology, urology, vascular surgery and (for the first time) obstetrics-gynecology, in addition to family and internal medicine — are in short supply.

• Recruitment and retention of physicians remains difficult, especially at community hospitals and with primary care.

A key reason for the doctor shortages, according to the study, is a "lingering poor practice environment in the state."

In 2006, Massachusetts passed its medical overhaul — minus a public option — similar to what's being proposed on a national scale now. It hasn't worked as expected. Costs are higher, with insurance premiums rising 22% faster than in the U.S. as a whole.

"Health spending in Massachusetts is higher than the United States on average and is growing at a faster rate," according to a recent report from the Urban Institute.

Other states with government-run or mandated health insurance systems, including Maine, Tennessee and Hawaii, have been forced to cut back services and coverage.

This experience has been repeated in other countries where a form of nationalized care is common. In particular, many nationalized health systems seem to have trouble finding enough doctors to meet demand.

In Britain, a lack of practicing physicians means the country has had to import thousands of foreign doctors to care for patients in the National Health Service.

"A third of (British) primary care trusts are flying in (general practitioners) from as far away as Lithuania, Poland, Germany, Hungary, Italy and Switzerland" because of a doctor shortage, a recent story in the British Daily Mail noted.

British doctors, demoralized by long hours and burdensome rules, simply refuse to see patients at nights and weekends.

Likewise, Canadian physicians who have to deal with the stringent rules and income limits imposed by that country's national health plan have emigrated in droves to other countries, including the U.S.

Tomorrow: Why most doctors oppose the government's plan — in their own words.

[boutons_deux]

Before health reform, 50% of the doctors said they wouldn't be doctors again.

So no big change. The health care system is broken for everybody.

[SouthernFried]

Yeah...this is no big deal. And govt really ain't getting involved. And doctors who don't want to work for the govt...who needs 'em anyway. Prolly unpatriotic racists anyway.

[Winehole23]

Four of nine doctors, or 45%, said they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passes the plan the Democratic majority and White House have in mind.The Baucus bill includes no public option, but only coops and insurance mandates. What wimps.

[Winehole23]

Yeah...this is no big deal. And govt really ain't getting involved. And doctors who don't want to work for the govt...who needs 'em anyway. Prolly unpatriotic racists anyway.The Baucus bill includes no public option.

[Shastafarian]

And what are the numbers of people in med school, residency, internships? I'd also like to see the raw data of this poll.

[George Gervin's Afro]

what bill was this poll based on?

[SouthernFried]

THERE IS NO PUBLIC OPTION!!

The govt is not getting into HEALTHCARE...Ya'll need to just calm down! Watch some TV (but, not that racist FOX channel)...and chill!

[Winehole23]

Basically, the reform currently coming down the pike is little more than an occasion for pols to pat themselves on the back, and pad the wallets of insurance and pharmaceutical companies. The public cost is enormous, but in its current shape reform won't lead to government run anything that I can tell.

[boutons_deux]

"work for the govt"

keep up the lying, the Becktards' heads are exploding

[boutons_deux]

"NO PUBLIC OPTION"

there will be a public option, the only question is how weak or strong it is.

[SouthernFried]

No worries.

The govt ain't gonna run a thing.

Thousand page bills, and billions of dollars of govt spending...don't mean the govt will actually get involved or run anything.

People are just paranoid...too much time on their hands.

[Winehole23]

No worries.

The govt ain't gonna run a thing.

Thousand page bills, and billions of dollars of govt spending...don't mean the govt will actually get involved or run anything.

People are just paranoid...too much time on their hands.Put up or shut up, Southern Fried. What will the government run, under the Baucus bill? Are you even familiar with it?

Keep in mind, I'm against it. I don't defend it. I hope it doesn't pass. But you're just talking out of your hat.

[Winehole23]

"NO PUBLIC OPTION"

there will be a public option, the only question is how weak or strong it is.I think you're unfamiliar with the quid pro quo involved here. Google "PhRMA", "Baucus", "150 million dollars".

[SouthernFried]

The govt aint gonna run anything. They're spending all this money, and passing thousands of pages of bills...so they wont run a thing!

Geez...how manytimes I gotta say it?

People are too paranoid.

[LnGrrrR]

BREAKING NEWS: 45% of Cars May Be Crushed By Dinosaur Rampages

A study just released yesterday showed that, if scientists were to enact the plot of Jurassic Park in real life, nearly 45% of cars might be destroyed by wandering dinosaurs. Asked for comment, scientist Gene Splicer said, "It's a serious issue, one that the American public isn't looking at closely enough. Look, if we were ever to pull something like this off, let's face it, these things weigh TONS. There's going to be lots of crushed cars trampled underfoot, and John Q Public is going to want some answers to big questions. Questions like, 'Why would you even bring dinosaurs back to life?' And the President is going to need to have some answers."

The poll, conducted by Rasmussen, asked participants, "If a 20 foot tall dinosaur were to step on your car while running across the street, do you think your car would be able to withstand the pressure unscathed?" 45% of respondents said they thought their car would be crushed, 15% said they thought their car could withstand the damage, and 40% wondered what the word unscathed meant, and argued whether it was a 'real' word or not. When assured it was a real word, 20% said it's probably just another fancy word used by elite liberals.

Back to you in the studio, Norm....

[Winehole23]

:lol

[Shastafarian]

The govt aint gonna run anything. They're spending all this money, and passing thousands of pages of bills...so they wont run a thing!

Geez...how manytimes I gotta say it?

People are too paranoid.

He's just on repeat at this point. It's like a meltdown but not nearly as funny.

[starboy]

The survey was conducted with 1,376 of practicing physicians between Aug 28 and Sept 15th 2008. I think a bigger sample size is needed if you want a true representation of 800,000 physicians in 100s of different specialized fields.

Further:

"Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found.

The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby — the powerful American Medical Association — both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul."

Flawed logic. Just because a person will consider shutting down their practice or retire early because of a new health system does not at all mean they are against the proposed overhaul. Not to mention, if you take a look later in the paragraph, it looks like 45% of respondents from the poll said they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement". Leaving their practice could mean going from one practice to another(ex. Orthopedics to Pediatrics), switching medical fields(ex public to private) etc...not outright quitting practice of medicine all together.

I thought weighing one's options when new procedures and policies are put in place that affect your profession where a smart and common thing to do. In this case, the article assumes "consider leaving practice or taking an early retirement" means "quitting medicine and being opposed to a healthcare overhaul".

Also, we're never told what bill or plan the doctors think "medical overhaul" consists of. A doctor included in the 45% against could have been sitting in front of his TV watching Fox News for the past 2 months, and thinks "medical overhaul" = end of world. But of course, we're never told, so we're left to assume all medical overhauls are the same.

I think I'll take this one with a grain of salt.

[Winehole23]

Exercising his option not think. I guess persuasiveness isn't his aim here.

[DarrinS]

The survey was conducted with 1,376 of practicing physicians between Aug 28 and Sept 15th 2008. I think a bigger sample size is needed if you want a true representation of 800,000 physicians in 100s of different specialized fields.


You don't need to poll all 800,000 if you get a representative sample? Take a statistics course.





Flawed logic. Just because a person will consider shutting down their practice or retire early because of a new health system does not at all mean they are against the proposed overhaul.



WTF?

[sam1617]

BREAKING NEWS: 45% of Cars May Be Crushed By Dinosaur Rampages

A study just released yesterday showed that, if scientists were to enact the plot of Jurassic Park in real life, nearly 45% of cars might be destroyed by wandering dinosaurs. Asked for comment, scientist Gene Splicer said, "It's a serious issue, one that the American public isn't looking at closely enough. Look, if we were ever to pull something like this off, let's face it, these things weigh TONS. There's going to be lots of crushed cars trampled underfoot, and John Q Public is going to want some answers to big questions. Questions like, 'Why would you even bring dinosaurs back to life?' And the President is going to need to have some answers."

The poll, conducted by Rasmussen, asked participants, "If a 20 foot tall dinosaur were to step on your car while running across the street, do you think your car would be able to withstand the pressure unscathed?" 45% of respondents said they thought their car would be crushed, 15% said they thought their car could withstand the damage, and 40% wondered what the word unscathed meant, and argued whether it was a 'real' word or not. When assured it was a real word, 20% said it's probably just another fancy word used by elite liberals.

Back to you in the studio, Norm....

Thank god for the voice of reason :downspin:

I actually laughed out loud for this, the first time thats happened from something online in a long time.

[Shastafarian]

You don't need to poll all 800,000 if you get a representative sample? Take a statistics course.


He never said poll all 800,000. Do you know the statistical certainty of this poll?

[ChumpDumper]

So what do all these doctors plan on doing after they close their practices?

[boutons_deux]

Only Baucus' plan has no public option.

All 4 plans in the House have public options.

If the Dems want a public option, they can have it.

I bet the $80B "price reduction" Magic Negro did with BigPharma won't pass. The Dems can pass a bill without BigPharma's bullshit deals.

- $80B/10 years? BigPharma spends $60B/year on marketing, $30B/year on research.

$8B/year drug price cut? GMAFB

[hope4dopes]

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199

Thanks again for the article Darrin.It seems to touched off a firestorm of denial and sidestepping by the obamunists. Let's see no money and no doctors ....yeah this is gonna work.

[DarrinS]

BREAKING NEWS: 45% of Cars May Be Crushed By Dinosaur Rampages

A study just released yesterday showed that, if scientists were to enact the plot of Jurassic Park in real life, nearly 45% of cars might be destroyed by wandering dinosaurs. Asked for comment, scientist Gene Splicer said, "It's a serious issue, one that the American public isn't looking at closely enough. Look, if we were ever to pull something like this off, let's face it, these things weigh TONS. There's going to be lots of crushed cars trampled underfoot, and John Q Public is going to want some answers to big questions. Questions like, 'Why would you even bring dinosaurs back to life?' And the President is going to need to have some answers."

The poll, conducted by Rasmussen, asked participants, "If a 20 foot tall dinosaur were to step on your car while running across the street, do you think your car would be able to withstand the pressure unscathed?" 45% of respondents said they thought their car would be crushed, 15% said they thought their car could withstand the damage, and 40% wondered what the word unscathed meant, and argued whether it was a 'real' word or not. When assured it was a real word, 20% said it's probably just another fancy word used by elite liberals.

Back to you in the studio, Norm....



That's pretty creative. :lol

[LnGrrrR]

That's pretty creative. :lol

:toast

[SnakeBoy]

The Baucus bill includes no public option, but only coops and insurance mandates. What wimps.

The poll wasn't on the Baucus bill which I'm sure you know. The Baucas bill is dead on arrival which I'm sure you know as well.

[in2deep]

breaking news: 45% of cars may be crushed by dinosaur rampages

a study just released yesterday showed that, if scientists were to enact the plot of jurassic park in real life, nearly 45% of cars might be destroyed by wandering dinosaurs. Asked for comment, scientist gene splicer said, "it's a serious issue, one that the american public isn't looking at closely enough. Look, if we were ever to pull something like this off, let's face it, these things weigh tons. There's going to be lots of crushed cars trampled underfoot, and john q public is going to want some answers to big questions. Questions like, 'why would you even bring dinosaurs back to life?' and the president is going to need to have some answers."

the poll, conducted by rasmussen, asked participants, "if a 20 foot tall dinosaur were to step on your car while running across the street, do you think your car would be able to withstand the pressure unscathed?" 45% of respondents said they thought their car would be crushed, 15% said they thought their car could withstand the damage, and 40% wondered what the word unscathed meant, and argued whether it was a 'real' word or not. When assured it was a real word, 20% said it's probably just another fancy word used by elite liberals.

Back to you in the studio, norm....

lol

ownd

[nuclearfm]

50% of doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class, they are the ones causing medical malpractice anyway. They should quit and just open homeopathic shops.

[Winehole23]

The last stat I saw on malpractice is that 5% of doctors are responsible for 50% of malpractice claims. Pity doctors don't police their own a little better.

[DarrinS]

50% of doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class, they are the ones causing medical malpractice anyway. They should quit and just open homeopathic shops.


What do you call someone who graduated from med school with a C-average?

[DarrinS]

50% of doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class, they are the ones causing medical malpractice anyway. They should quit and just open homeopathic shops.


Maybe 45% of doctors are racists.

[boutons_deux]

"50% of doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class"

from med school? Too bad that 100% of the doctors don't graduate in the top 10% of the class, with nobody in the bottom 90%. :lol

[nuclearfm]

What do you call someone who graduated from med school with a C-average?

Hmm. I could think of a few.

How about a non-board certified plastic surgeon? There are plenty of those around.

[nuclearfm]

"50% of doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class"

from med school? Too bad that 100% of the doctors don't graduate in the top 10% of the class, with nobody in the bottom 90%. :lol


Hey, now. I'm just stating the facts :lol

[DarrinS]

Hmm. I could think of a few.

How about a non-board certified plastic surgeon? There are plenty of those around.


The correct answer is: They are called doctors.

[nuclearfm]

The correct answer is: They are called doctors.

8fIs-f-jaZY

[nuclearfm]

Maybe 45% of doctors are racists.

Just like Barack Obama

[George Gervin's Afro]

Thanks again for the article Darrin.It seems to touched off a firestorm of denial and sidestepping by the obamunists. Let's see no money and no doctors ....yeah this is gonna work.

what part of the healthcare legislation do you think they oppose?

[George Gervin's Afro]

What do you call someone who graduated from med school with a C-average?

[elbamba]

And what are the numbers of people in med school, residency, internships? I'd also like to see the raw data of this poll.

I have a son-in-law at KU medical school right now and most of the students from his perspective are against the Obama plan. This is obviously not scientific in nature and is his opinion on the general feel for student's opinion that he has.

[elbamba]

While I certainly do not believe that your grades will make you a great doctor or a bad doctor, I do believe that medical schools matter. I am not thrilled that many students go to other countries with small island third world medical schools and then return here to practice medicine. It worries me.

[boutons_deux]

I think medical school costs and length of training are effectively a barrier to entry.

Other industrial countries have quite a few more doctors-per-100K capita than USA and still they spend a lot less per capita on health care and deliver care to everybody.

And USA has horrible deficit in primary care docs, and it's disastrous in rural areas.

I doubt doctors, esp specialists, in other countries start practicing with $150K in school debts.

America's health system is screwed in so many ways, and is so far behind health care delivery in other countries.

[Yonivore]

I think medical school costs and length of training are effectively a barrier to entry.

Other industrial countries have quite a few more doctors-per-100K capita than USA and still they spend a lot less per capita on health care and deliver care to everybody.
Not everybody...just ask the 250K people the British unplugged without talking to the families, last year.


And USA has horrible deficit in primary care docs, and it's disastrous in rural areas.
You think that's going to get better under ObamaCare?


I doubt doctors, esp specialists, in other countries start practicing with $150K in school debts.

America's health system is screwed in so many ways, and is so far behind health care delivery in other countries.
America has the most innovative, sophisticated, technologically advanced, and effective medical care in the world.

I don't see anyone flocking to any other country in the world when they get some catastrophic disease.

[SpurNation]

Great post LnGrrrR :toast :lmao

[boutons_deux]

"flocking to any other country"

Americans doing medical tourism is so big that one US health insurance company is considering covering it.

Americans are moving to MX and Costa Rica for the cheaper care.

"most innovative, sophisticated, technologically advanced, and effective"

you left out "most expensive" and "least accessible", but let's not t quibble over details

[Yonivore]

"flocking to any other country"

Americans doing medical tourism is so big that one US health insurance company is considering covering it.

Americans are moving to MX and Costa Rica for the cheaper care.
But, not better care.


"most innovative, sophisticated, technologically advanced, and effective"

you left out "most expensive" and "least accessible", but let's not t quibble over details
Do you think it's free to develop those therapies?

[Yonivore]

Turn on your speakers...

Pull The Plug On Granny (http://mfile.akamai.com/5020/wma/rushlimb.download.akamai.com/5020/New/pulltheplug.asx)

[TDMVPDPOY]

the short supply of doctors, the govt would just import more indian doctors into the country on cheaper rates, or outsource the shit....

hence just wait till nurses and shit can start writing out prescribe medicine cause of the shortage of doctors and backhaul of the system cause too many patients are freeloading the system over small health problems....

[NoOptionB]

I think medical school costs and length of training are effectively a barrier to entry.

Other industrial countries have quite a few more doctors-per-100K capita than USA and still they spend a lot less per capita on health care and deliver care to everybody.

And USA has horrible deficit in primary care docs, and it's disastrous in rural areas.

I doubt doctors, esp specialists, in other countries start practicing with $150K in school debts.

America's health system is screwed in so many ways, and is so far behind health care delivery in other countries.


Yes. It's too bad government has to come up with 1k pages of agenda-pushing bullshit and just can't actually hammer away simply and effectively [in plain english] at the problems.

Generation changing greatness is in their hands, but because of their nature they can never carry it out.

[ducks]

So what do all these doctors plan on doing after they close their practices?

play golf

[chode_regulator]

BREAKING NEWS: 45% of Cars May Be Crushed By Dinosaur Rampages

A study just released yesterday showed that, if scientists were to enact the plot of Jurassic Park in real life, nearly 45% of cars might be destroyed by wandering dinosaurs. Asked for comment, scientist Gene Splicer said, "It's a serious issue, one that the American public isn't looking at closely enough. Look, if we were ever to pull something like this off, let's face it, these things weigh TONS. There's going to be lots of crushed cars trampled underfoot, and John Q Public is going to want some answers to big questions. Questions like, 'Why would you even bring dinosaurs back to life?' And the President is going to need to have some answers."

The poll, conducted by Rasmussen, asked participants, "If a 20 foot tall dinosaur were to step on your car while running across the street, do you think your car would be able to withstand the pressure unscathed?" 45% of respondents said they thought their car would be crushed, 15% said they thought their car could withstand the damage, and 40% wondered what the word unscathed meant, and argued whether it was a 'real' word or not. When assured it was a real word, 20% said it's probably just another fancy word used by elite liberals.

Back to you in the studio, Norm....

While I admit this is a funny response, you do understand the basis of statistics correct?

[ChumpDumper]

Not everybody...just ask the 250K people the British unplugged without talking to the families, last year.So where is the single payer plan in any of the current bills in Congress?

[George Gervin's Afro]

what is the obamacare bill say? I haven't seen it yet. Can anyone provide a copy or link that sends me to the Obamacare bill? Seriously we have polls based on things that don't exist so I want to be better informed. What are these people against? All Obama has proposed is healthcare reform. Are all of these people against heathcare reform?

[LnGrrrR]

While I admit this is a funny response, you do understand the basis of statistics correct?

Of course. However, I'm also well aware how poll questions can be massaged to provide certain answers. Until I see a few more polls showing the same results, it's somewhat jumping the gun to take this poll at complete face value.

[101A]

Haven't read the thread, and don't know if this has been covered, but the doctors I know are HORRIBLE managers of money; (they make a lot of money, but they SPEND a lot of money) - NO WAY they could quit - they don't save (and their wives like shiny things).

[jman3000]

Company's should start doing a Japan style workout thing prior to the shift starting. Maybe a voluntary 30 minute stretch period or whatever they do in exchange for a rebate on what you pay into the company's healthcare. It seems small but if it became a cultural thing it'd have pretty big implications.

[LnGrrrR]

Company's should start doing a Japan style workout thing prior to the shift starting. Maybe a voluntary 30 minute stretch period or whatever they do in exchange for a rebate on what you pay into the company's healthcare. It seems small but if it became a cultural thing it'd have pretty big implications.

People could just join the military. We get alot of that in here. :lol

[boutons_deux]

"250K people the British unplugged"

link?

Ask any Brit (or other industrial country) if they would swap their health system for US health disaster.

[TFloss32]

And what are the numbers of people in med school, residency, internships? I'd also like to see the raw data of this poll.

I'd like to see the credentials on what it takes to be considered an "uninsured American." It's like Basketball Without Borders, just insert healthcare.


you left out "most expensive" and "least accessible", but let's not t quibble over details

The healthcare is plan is ridiculously expensive as well. And how does healthcare become more accessible with 47 million people thrown in the mix and everyone (including those already insured) goes to the doctor/hopsitals for anything and everything?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Fox runs wild with "not scientific" IBD poll
http://mediamatters.org/items/200909170025

Several Fox News media figures highlighted a recent Investor's Business Daily/TIPP poll which found that "[t]wo of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted." However, according to statistician Nate Silver, the poll is "simply not credible," and Fox News itself acknowledged that the poll is "not scientific."
Silver, Fox News undermine IBD/TIPP poll's credibility
Nate Silver: Poll is "simply not credible." In a September 16 post to his blog FiveThirtyEight.com, Silver listed five reasons why the IBD poll should be "completely ignore[d]":

1. The survey was conducted by mail, which is unusual. The only other mail-based poll that I'm aware of is that conducted by the Columbus Dispatch, which was associated with an average error of about 7 percentage points -- the highest of any pollster that we tested.

2. At least one of the questions is blatantly biased: "Do you believe the government can cover 47 million more people and it will cost less money and th quality of care will be better?". Holy run-on-sentence, Batman? A pollster who asks a question like this one is not intending to be objective.

3. As we learned during the Presidntial campaign -- when, among other things, they had John McCain winning the youth vote 74-22 -- the IBD/TIPP polling operation has literally no idea what they're doing. I mean, literally none. For example, I don't trust IBD/TIPP to have competently selected anything resembling a random panel, which is harder to do than you'd think.

4. They say, somewhat ambiguously: "Responses are still coming in." This is also highly unorthodox. Professional pollsters generally do not report results before the survey period is compete.

5. There is virtually no disclosure about methodology. For example, IBD doesn't bother to define the term "practicing physician", which could mean almost anything. Nor do they explain how their randomization procedure worked, provide the entire question battery, or anything like that.

Silver added: "There are pollsters out there that have an agenda but are highly competent, and there are pollsters that are nonpartisan but not particularly skilled. Rarely, however, do you find the whole package: that special pollster which is both biased and inept. IBD/TIPP is one of the few exceptions."

Your World aired an on-screen graphic calling the poll "not scientific." During Neil Cavuto's discussion of the IBD/TIPP poll on the September 16 edition of Fox News' Your World, the on-screen graphic indicated that the poll was "not scientific":

:rolleyes

[LnGrrrR]

Again:


Of course. However, I'm also well aware how poll questions can be massaged to provide certain answers. Until I see a few more polls showing the same results, it's somewhat jumping the gun to take this poll at complete face value.

[coyotes_geek]

Use of non-scientific polls in media stories is the norm these days. Every network and newspaper with a website has a new one daily. Strangely, people only seem to worry about how scientific those polls are when they return results not to their liking.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Use of non-scientific polls in media stories is the norm these days. Every network and newspaper with a website has a new one daily. Strangely, people only seem to worry about how scientific those polls are when they return results not to their liking.

or some are over reliant on useless polls..

[coyotes_geek]

or some are over reliant on useless polls..

Just a hunch, but I'm guessing that blue team is not over reliant on polls, but red team is. And the polls blue team uses are far more reliable than the ones red team uses.