Rosen: Why There's A Shortage Of Quality Big Men

[duncan228]

Why there's a shortage of quality big men (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/10081454/Why-there's-a-shortage-of-quality-big-men)
by Charley Rosen

While NBA rosters are crowded with guards and forwards of every size and description, back-to-the-basket, tough-hombre centers are the league's most endangered species.

Consider, for example, the plentitude of variously accomplished big men who prowled the lanes from 1977 to 1988: Hakeem Olajuwon, Moses Malone, Bob Lanier, Elvin Hayes, Patrick Ewing, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Artis Gilmore, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Wes Unseld, Bill Cartwright, Joe Barry Carroll and Bill Walton.

On the other hand, the very best of today's equivalents include Yao Ming (who's injured and whose future is uncertain), Tim Duncan (who has many more good years behind him than ahead of him), Shaquille O'Neal (definitely on his last legs), Zydrunas Ilgauskas (going, going and almost gone), and Dwight Howard (who's still a work in progress).

Why, then, is there such a shortage of prime-time bigs these days?

* Because many young big men watch endless highlights of NBA action and busy themselves playing basketball video games. Plus, they're primarily interested in fancy handling, dunking, shooting 3-pointers and blocking shots.

* This limited vision of what bigs can and should do is reinforced when they see 7-footers like Andrea Bargnani and Dirk Nowitzki play like small forwards.

* Besides, most fledgling centers don't want to bang around in the paint or learn the footwork specific to effective low-post play. Practice, after all, is boring,

* Most importantly, there's a dearth of talented big-men coaches at the high school, AAU and college levels.

Let's examine the best of the NBA's young (under 30) centers to try to determine which — if any — of them might blossom into the type of fire-eating, Bogarting big man that can dominate the middle like the greats of yesteryear.

* Al Jefferson (24 years old) doesn't play much defense and isn't interested in passing but has the most developed, the most ornery and the most versatile low-post game of his peers. If only Jefferson played for a better team than the T-Wolves he'd certainly be a headline performer.

* Kendrick Perkins (24) has evolved to the point where he can use his massive body to great advantage in the pivot. Plus, the young man just loves to bang at both ends of the court. However, will the presence of Rasheed Wallace dramatically curtail Perkins' playing time and rate of development?

* Pau Gasol (29) isn't young anymore and is more of a tricky low-post scorer than a forceful one. Yet because of the paucity of his rivals, he nevertheless belongs near the top of this particular list.

* Emeka Okafor (27) is as good as he's ever going to be — a somewhat forceful role player with limited offense.

* Nene (27) certainly has the goods. He's a powerhouse with a surprisingly good touch, but he needs to be more consistent. The fact that he doesn't get sufficient touches to get into a prolonged groove is decisive in this regard.

* Andrew Bogut (24) is perhaps the most savvy of the young bigs and also possesses very good hands. But he makes too many mistakes with the ball, is injury-prone (he's missed over 21 percent of Milwaukee's games in the past three seasons) and he lacks the kind of top-of-the-line talent that can boost him to the apex of his position.

* Amare Stoudemire (26) is a face-up and a screen-and-roll player who rarely ventures into the low post. Indeed, his modus operandi resembles a power forward more than it does a true center.

* Tyson Chandler (26) doesn't scare opponents when he has the ball in his hands unless he's about to throw down a putback dunk or a lob pass. In addition to his offensive limitations, Chandler is a magnet for personal fouls. In any event, he's found his niche as an erratic role player.

* Andris Biedrins (23) has the same strengths (rebounding, help defense and blocking shots) as Chandler and is even more of a liability on offense. Also, Biedrins only plays with his back to the basket on defense.

* Eddy Curry (26) has the inside skills and the bulk to be an effective post-up scorer. However, his inability to rebound, defend or pass will prevent him from becoming a dreadnaught big man.

* Darko Milicic (24) has all of the necessary tools to excel at this position, but waiting for him to realize his potential is like waiting for Godot.

* Chris Kaman (27) has an effective — if robotic — drop step and jump hook that he can use going either right or left. He's also an above-average rebounder and shot-blocker. Too bad he's athletically challenged.

* Greg Oden (21) has the power to succeed, but his offense is still sloppy and limited. Moreover, he can't seem to play defense without fouling, which curtails his playing time and slows his development. However, since young bigs normally require three seasons to either reach their NBA maturity or prove to be unsalvageable busts, it's still possible — though not probable — that Oden can become a monster in the middle.

* Brook Lopez (21) is another young player who has a considerable upside. But, because he plays for the woeful Nets, Lopez will be allowed to develop his game without the pressure that Oden has. It could even happen that Lopez will — later than sooner — catch and surpass Oden.

* Andrew Bynum (21) has perhaps the most potential of all the young centers, but after four years in the league, he remains a stranger in paradise.

On the other hand, it's quite possible that the NBA game will eventually become a haven for small-ball and small-ballers — where triple-X-sized players will only be required to defend, set screens, block shots, rebound and shoot layups.

Or perhaps in 10 years, the league will be chock full of 7-foot point guards.

[MiamiHeat]

Why did the writer ignore the BIGGEST reason?

Defensive and Offensive 3 second rules. No handchecking, no arm stiffs anymore

The rules have changed to allow more scoring, specifically for the perimeter players by forcing the Centers to leave the lanes.

[Lars]

Brook Lopez is already better than Oden.

[Allanon]

Pivotal year for Bynum.

If he's pretty healthy for the year, it's going to be Bynum and Dwight.

If he injures his knee again, that's pretty much it.

[#2!]

Brook Lopez is already better than Oden.

agreed

[Culburn369]

Pivotal year for Bynum.

If he's pretty healthy for the year, it's going to be Bynum and Dwight.

If he injures his knee again, that's pretty much it.

Nonsense. He's only been cut once and even then it wasn't blown.

[exstatic]

Nonsense. He's only been cut once and even then it wasn't blown.

That's old school thinking. Ligament injuries used to be serious, if not career ending. Now, there isn't one that can't be fixed, and completely healed, unless you're talking all 3 ligaments and nerve damage like Jay Williams or Shaun Livingston.

Cartilage, OTOH, can only be shaved/smoothed or removed, never fixed. The cushion between the femur and tibia is never quite the same. That leads to hot spots on the bone, and voila, you're a micro fracture candidate.

It's bad to lose cartilage as young as Bynum has. If you gave me the choice of torn cartilage or a torn ligament or two, I'd take the latter, because you can completely recover.

[Allanon]

Nonsense. He's only been cut once and even then it wasn't blown.

I'm as big a Bynum fan as there is.

But if he does happen to have 3 years in a row of serious knee problems, that's too much to be a coincidence. Just being realistic.

However, I do think his injuries were a fluke and nothing more... he'll be fully healthy this year, and then it's just good times.

9efsJwJxYEk

[Sec24Row7]

Did he intentionally stop at 88 so he didn't have to mention Robinson?

[Bob Lanier]

I think we all know the reason Herr Rosen stopped at 88.

[exstatic]

I think we all know the reason Herr Rosen stopped at 88.

The Lakers stopped winning titles, at least for a dozen years they did.

[Mel_13]

The Lakers stopped winning titles, at least for a dozen years they did.

And a certain HOF center began his career in 89.

[The Franchise]

You know the center position is at an all-time low when bum ass scrubs like Bynum are being mentioned near the top of the list this year. In the 80's and 90's he may not have made it in the NBA. I think Dwight Howard would have been a bench player at this point in his career also.

[Cry Havoc]

You could also look back into the 80s and see a plethora of big men with no appreciable skills at all -- guys who wouldn't even be able to be on the court today were starting back then.

The game is much faster, not necessarily by pace, but by the power and athleticism with which guards operate on average today. Teams can no longer afford to throw a 7'2" guy out there with no hands and no purpose other than to rebound because they'll be eaten alive.

[Culburn369]

The Lakers stopped winning titles, at least for a dozen years they did.

& you never missed a beat in matching us.

[Culburn369]

That's old school thinking. Ligament injuries used to be serious, if not career ending. Now, there isn't one that can't be fixed, and completely healed, unless you're talking all 3 ligaments and nerve damage like Jay Williams or Shaun Livingston.

Cartilage, OTOH, can only be shaved/smoothed or removed, never fixed. The cushion between the femur and tibia is never quite the same. That leads to hot spots on the bone, and voila, you're a micro fracture candidate.

It's bad to lose cartilage as young as Bynum has. If you gave me the choice of torn cartilage or a torn ligament or two, I'd take the latter, because you can completely recover.

What's all this have to do with Bynum?

[tlongII]

Oden will be universally recognized as one of the top 3 centers in the league by the end of this coming season. He only goes up from there.

[exstatic]

What's all this have to do with Bynum?

You do know he had cartilage removed, right? Your post? The one I quoted? Ringing a bell?

tee hee

[Culburn369]

You do know he had cartilage removed, right? Your post? The one I quoted? Ringing a bell?

tee hee

Seriously, I don't recall that. Do you have any supporting evidence, or, are you just squattin' on the land?

And if yer going to tee, hee, make sure to lodge the >,< twixt the tee & the hee, ya damnable infernal douche bag, you.

[024]

out of the bolded list, brook lopez will be the best all around big man. he has many qualities that are duncan-like.

[phyzik]

Bynum might equal Dwight this year... LMFAO!!!!! :lol :lol :lol :rollin :rollin :rollin :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Come the fuck on Allanon..... now I've fucking heard it all from Laker fans.... no fucking way can they get more fucking faggoty for their team members.

If Bynum stays healthy all year AND IF he can put up the same numbers that he put up for 3 months 2 SEASONS ago.... he'll be a servicable big man in a perfect situation on the Lakers to take advantage of his skills.

Put him on another team and he's struggling to be a starter.

Bynum = Superman my fucking ass...

[Dunc n Dave]

Seriously, I don't recall that. Do you have any supporting evidence, or, are you just squattin' on the land?

And if yer going to tee, hee, make sure to lodge the >,< twixt the tee & the hee, ya damnable infernal douche bag, you.

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/02/01/Lakers.Bynum.ap/index.html?rss=true

"The 7-0, 285-pound Bynum's injury brought back bad memories of last season for the Lakers. He went down in mid-January and was expected to be sidelined 8 to 12 weeks after bruising a bone in his knee and briefly dislocating his kneecap.

Instead, he missed the final 46 games of the season, as the Lakers lost in the NBA finals. He underwent arthroscopic surgery May 21 to remove some cartilage debris and smooth some rough spots on the underside of his kneecap."

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Why did the writer ignore the BIGGEST reason?

Defensive and Offensive 3 second rules. No handchecking, no arm stiffs anymore

The rules have changed to allow more scoring, specifically for the perimeter players by forcing the Centers to leave the lanes.

Spot on. Unlike Rosen to miss something so obvious... unless it involves DRob. :lol


Brook Lopez is already better than Oden.

Of course he is.


Pivotal year for Bynum.

If he's pretty healthy for the year, it's going to be Bynum and Dwight.

If he injures his knee again, that's pretty much it.

So what, anbother injury and he'll retire aged 21?


Oden will be universally recognized as one of the top 3 centers in the league by the end of this coming season. He only goes up from there.

Unlikely.



When it comes to big men, I am your man. I have played as a back-to-the-basket centre for 20 years, have hooks, drop-steps and up-and-unders with both hands, an effective fadeaway against slow guys, money from 15ft, play solid position defence, etc.... shit man, I understand the position.

Watching the big man disappear from the NBA game has been one of the great sadnesses of the NBA for me. Watching David/Hakeem/Shaq/Patrick go at each other for most of the 90s was an absolute pleasure, but you very rarely see a quality big man duel these days... about the closest we've had recently was Tim vs Shaq or KG. I really miss the big man. :(

[Culburn369]

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/02/01/Lakers.Bynum.ap/index.html?rss=true

"The 7-0, 285-pound Bynum's injury brought back bad memories of last season for the Lakers. He went down in mid-January and was expected to be sidelined 8 to 12 weeks after bruising a bone in his knee and briefly dislocating his kneecap.

Instead, he missed the final 46 games of the season, as the Lakers lost in the NBA finals. He underwent arthroscopic surgery May 21 to remove some cartilage debris and smooth some rough spots on the underside of his kneecap."

Ok, douche bag, Jr., but, what has that got to do with Dr X and his douche bag prognosis, you damn stinkin' douche bag, you.

[Allanon]

Bynum might equal Dwight this year... LMFAO!!!!! :lol :lol :lol :rollin :rollin :rollin :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Come the fuck on Allanon..... now I've fucking heard it all from Laker fans.... no fucking way can they get more fucking faggoty for their team members.

If Bynum stays healthy all year AND IF he can put up the same numbers that he put up for 3 months 2 SEASONS ago.... he'll be a servicable big man in a perfect situation on the Lakers to take advantage of his skills.

Put him on another team and he's struggling to be a starter.

Bynum = Superman my fucking ass...

Learn to fucking read, Spurfan. I never said Bynum=Superman. I said it would be Dwight and Bynum.

If Bynum stays healthy this year, Dwight & Bynum will be the two best Centers in the NBA.

You can quote me on that end of the year bitch.

[Culburn369]

Learn to fucking read, Spurfan. I never said Bynum=Superman. I said it would be Dwight and Bynum.

If Bynum stays healthy this year, Dwight & Bynum will be the two best Centers in the NBA.

You can quote me on that end of the year bitch.

ha, ha, Allan just busted a Spurfan's douche bag!

[mountainballer]

If Bynum stays healthy this year, Dwight & Bynum will be the two best Centers in the NBA.



Oden will be universally recognized as one of the top 3 centers in the league by the end of this coming season. He only goes up from there.

so the two best will be DH and Bynum,
the three best will be DH, Bynum and Oden.
hey guys, we really need a Kings fan to tell us the four best centers will be DH, Bynum, Oden and Hawes.

[Chieflion]

so the two best will be DH and Bynum,
the three best will be DH, Bynum and Oden.
hey guys, we really need a Kings fan to tell us the four best centers will be DH, Bynum, Oden and Hawes.
I think you will need a Wizards fan to tell you about McGee. He is a beast too. Sooner or later, a Warriors fan would pass by telling you how Anthony Randolph will be masquerading as the center of their team.

[eisfeld]

Learn to fucking read, Spurfan. I never said Bynum=Superman. I said it would be Dwight and Bynum.

If Bynum stays healthy this year, Dwight & Bynum will be the two best Centers in the NBA.

You can quote me on that end of the year bitch.

I wouldn't count on that. Dwight is in his own league and there are still a couple of centers out there being able to challenge Bynum for second place.

[SenorSpur]

The Ghost of Jackie Butler sees this list and utters the imfamous phrase, "I could've been a contender".

[z0sa]

Why is there a shortage of quality sports writers, Rosen?

[Culburn369]

I wouldn't count on that. Dwight is in his own league and there are still a couple of centers out there being able to challenge Bynum for second place.

Even conversing in Bynum's name in relation to genuine quality centers is indicative of the puny nature of the current supply. Ugh.

[Allanon]

I wouldn't count on that. Dwight is in his own league and there are still a couple of centers out there being able to challenge Bynum for second place.

Nah, my position is quite solid...it's almost a sure bet if he's healthy. Even with his knee problems last year, Bynum's 14 pts, 8 rbds made him the #1 Center in bang for the buck. He was paid something like $250,000 per point average while guys like Dwight were costing something like $750,000 per point average.

If Bynum can average 14 points in an injury plagued year, let's see Bynum rack up the stats in a healthy year...I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the 17-20 point range with 10+ rebounds.

[wireonfire]

Brook Lopez is already better than Oden.

Not on defense. I still think Oden has bigger upside because he is more athletic and much more physical.

[wireonfire]

I think you will need a Wizards fan to tell you about McGee. He is a beast too. Sooner or later, a Warriors fan would pass by telling you how Anthony Randolph will be masquerading as the center of their team.

AR is really a joy to watch, but he ain't a center, not in a hundred years.

[Chieflion]

AR is really a joy to watch, but he ain't a center, not in a hundred years.
It is a joke about small ball and I heard that Anthony Randolph said something about a growth spurt and that he is 7 foot, 222 pounds.

[Dunc n Dave]

Nah, my position is quite solid...it's almost a sure bet if he's healthy. Even with his knee problems last year, Bynum's 14 pts, 8 rbds made him the #1 Center in bang for the buck. He was paid something like $250,000 per point average while guys like Dwight were costing something like $750,000 per point average.

If Bynum can average 14 points in an injury plagued year, let's see Bynum rack up the stats in a healthy year...I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the 17-20 point range with 10+ rebounds.

It you figure in all the games he missed (total pts on the season) it's not quite the "value" you make it out to be....

[Galileo]

* Darko Milicic (24) has all of the necessary tools to excel at this position, but waiting for him to realize his potential is like waiting for Godot.



HAHA!! THAT'S A KNEE SLAPPER!

:lmao

:lmao :lmao

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[Allanon]

It you figure in all the games he missed (total pts on the season) it's not quite the "value" you make it out to be....

Even if you figure in his missed games, with his $3 million dollar salary, he delivered the most bang for the buck.

Any Center that scored 14+ points a game easily made double Bynum's salary. Guys like Shaq/Dwight/Yao all made 5 to 7 times more money for 5-6 more points.

Jermaine 'O Neal $23 million - 13 pts, 6 rbds
Shaq $20 million - 18 pts, 8 rbds
Yao $16 million - 20pts, 9 rbds
Dwight $15 million - 20 pts, 14 rbds
Tyson Chandler $12 million - 9 pts, 8 rbds
Nene $11 million - 14 pts, 8 rbds
Chris Kaman $10 million - 13 pts, 8 rbds
Erick Dampier $10 million - 6 pts, 7 rbds

Bynum $3 million - 14 pts, 8 rbds

That's quite a bargain right thar.

[Lars]

Simplification of statistics, doesn't measure defensive impact and drawing double teams. If two guys average identical numbers but one is consistantly double teamed, is it the same value?

Also to the guy who said Oden is better defensively, I disagree wholeheartedly. Oden can barely stay on the floor he fouls so much.

[Allanon]

We can get complicated if you like, I like it easy cuz I'm lazy.

So what complicated statistics could you make that would justify Jermaine O' Neals $23 million to Bynum's $3 million?

[Lars]

Are you seriously trying to argue you point based on a rookie contract? Bynum is scheduled to make 12 million next year and 16 million in 2012-13.

[Culburn369]

He stopped Howard. Just cuz it's not popular to cite Bynum cuz Media says it ain't doesn't preclude me from doing so. 4 games in and Howard exclaimed: "no mas." & Bynum made him utter it. Can one put a price on that? Sure, knock yerself out.

[Chieflion]

Simplification of statistics, doesn't measure defensive impact and drawing double teams. If two guys average identical numbers but one is consistantly double teamed, is it the same value?

Also to the guy who said Oden is better defensively, I disagree wholeheartedly. Oden can barely stay on the floor he fouls so much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6j8JCajoMA (A Blazer fan complaint, this is the kind of bullshit the refs are pulling on Oden. Why would they even call this?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14wxUaMiiaQ&feature=fvw (Even as a Spurs fan, Kurt Thomas initiated the contact and wrapped his arm around Oden's arm, causing Oden 4th foul.)

[Lars]

I have no sympathy for the first one, Oden and Pryzbilla hung on Yao the whole series, could of been a makeup call. Second one I dunno, ref angle maybe?

[Dunc n Dave]

Even if you figure in his missed games, with his $3 million dollar salary, he delivered the most bang for the buck.

Any Center that scored 14+ points a game easily made double Bynum's salary. Guys like Shaq/Dwight/Yao all made 5 to 7 times more money for 5-6 more points.

Jermaine 'O Neal $23 million - 13 pts, 6 rbds
Shaq $20 million - 18 pts, 8 rbds
Yao $16 million - 20pts, 9 rbds
Dwight $15 million - 20 pts, 14 rbds
Tyson Chandler $12 million - 9 pts, 8 rbds
Nene $11 million - 14 pts, 8 rbds
Chris Kaman $10 million - 13 pts, 8 rbds
Erick Dampier $10 million - 6 pts, 7 rbds

Bynum $3 million - 14 pts, 8 rbds

That's quite a bargain right thar.

Brook Lopez made only $2 million last year, averaged 13pts, 8 rebs, and 1.8 blks and played all 82 games in his rookie season. I'd say he's a better "value for your buck" than Andrew Bynum who missed 32 games last year while only AVERAGING 1 more point than Lopez in his 3rd season. And don't try to argue that Lopez isn't a center; he's a legit 7 footer...

Compare their point totals on the entire season and divide their salary by those numbers and Lopez was CLEARLY a better value per point, rebound, block, you name it...

[mogrovejo]

Why did the writer ignore the BIGGEST reason?

Defensive and Offensive 3 second rules. No handchecking, no arm stiffs anymore

The rules have changed to allow more scoring, specifically for the perimeter players by forcing the Centers to leave the lanes.

Exactly. The change or rules if by far the biggest reason. The game is now much easier for perimeter players.

[Culburn369]

Exactly. The change or rules if by far the biggest reason. The game is now much easier for perimeter players.

Blame goes to Daddy for beating Mutombo within an inch of his life in the Philly Finals in front of everybody. Blame goes to Colangelo---he convened a blue ribbon panel that offseason and changed the rules.

[jdev82]

I'm as big a Bynum fan as there is.

But if he does happen to have 3 years in a row of serious knee problems, that's too much to be a coincidence. Just being realistic.

However, I do think his injuries were a fluke and nothing more... he'll be fully healthy this year, and then it's just good times.

9efsJwJxYEk

when are you morons going to wake up and smell the shit? bynum straight up doesnt have the talent to be competing on an nba level. hes far too awkward. not to mention injury prone. bynum sucks. plain and simple. he sucks.

[exstatic]

Bynum $3 million - 14 pts, 8 rbds

Uh, that shit is over. It's put up or shut up time for Baby Drew.

Bynum 2009 - $12,526,998

How on earth do you see his scoring going up? There's only one ball, and he plays with Kobe and Krazy Ron.

[Allanon]

Are you seriously trying to argue you point based on a rookie contract? Bynum is scheduled to make 12 million next year and 16 million in 2012-13.

My point is Bynum was the most bang for the buck Center last year. I'm not talking about this year.

There was no rookie contract or veteran pro that put up Bynum's kind of numbers at such a cheap price.

[Allanon]

when are you morons going to wake up and smell the shit? bynum straight up doesnt have the talent to be competing on an nba level. hes far too awkward. not to mention injury prone. bynum sucks. plain and simple. he sucks.

Which Centers are better than Bynum?

[Allanon]

Brook Lopez made only $2 million last year, averaged 13pts, 8 rebs, and 1.8 blks and played all 82 games in his rookie season. I'd say he's a better "value for your buck" than Andrew Bynum who missed 32 games last year while only AVERAGING 1 more point than Lopez in his 3rd season. And don't try to argue that Lopez isn't a center; he's a legit 7 footer...

Compare their point totals on the entire season and divide their salary by those numbers and Lopez was CLEARLY a better value per point, rebound, block, you name it...

If you think Brook Lopez is better than Bynum, I suppose that's your opinion.

[Allanon]

Uh, that shit is over. It's put up or shut up time for Baby Drew.

Bynum 2009 - $12,526,998

How on earth do you see his scoring going up? There's only one ball, and he plays with Kobe and Krazy Ron.

I think Bynum had like 8 shots per game last year for his 14 pts. I think it's reasonable that he gets 2-3 shots more this year.

[exstatic]

I think Bynum had like 8 shots per game last year for his 14 pts. I think it's reasonable that he gets 2-3 shots more this year.

Subtract Ariza, who played his role. Add loose cannon Ron Ron, who never met a shot he didn't like. I think 2-3 more shots, every game, may be out of reach. At the 3 end of that scale, that's 246 shots over the course of a full season. Ron ain't gonna let him have that many, let alone Kobe.

[all_heart]

I'm as big a Bynum fan as there is.

But if he does happen to have 3 years in a row of serious knee problems, that's too much to be a coincidence. Just being realistic.

However, I do think his injuries were a fluke and nothing more... he'll be fully healthy this year, and then it's just good times.

9efsJwJxYEk

those highlights are mostly shit.. nothing but dunks, there was a nice one at 3:34, but the rest are crap. where's the footwork, versatility, the craftiness? He only gets the easy dunks cuz of Kobe, which is great for him, but a beast?.. no way!

[Allanon]

those highlights are mostly shit.. nothing but dunks, there was a nice one at 3:34, but the rest are crap. where's the footwork, versatility, the craftiness?

Bynum's developing a short shot but I'd rather he dunk everytime he has a chance. In the video you can see he has great hands and can pretty much catch anything if it's close to him. Pretty amazing hops and mobility for a 280 pound guy too.

That spin move he did at the end shows off the footwork. I don't know of any 7 foot Center in the NBA right now that has that kind of footwork.

Bynum, when healthy, probably has the best footwork of the young Centers.

It's true that he's been a bit awkward/clumsy since he came back from injury in April but I think he'll get back into form this year.

But if you watch games like where he played the Great Mr. Tim Duncan to a virtual tie, you know he's got some serious talent...at age 21.

[tlongII]

Oden > Bynum

[Dunc n Dave]

If you think Brook Lopez is better than Bynum, I suppose that's your opinion.

That's not what I'm saying. You keep saying Bynum was the most "bang for your buck" center last year. I just showed you he wasn't.

Brook Lopez was. He made $1 million less than Bynum last year, played all 82 games (not 50-55 games like Bynum), and had nearly IDENTICAL averages as Bynum. Even his minutes per game were the same, so you can't argue that Lopez got more PT to get his numbers.

The difference is Brook Lopez will still be a great value next year while Bynum will join the ranks of the overpaid at $12 million per.

[Dunc n Dave]

Not only that, but Brook Lopez has an efficiency rating of +17.39 while Bynum's efficiency rating is only +7.22

I'm just sayin...

[cobbler]

That's not what I'm saying. You keep saying Bynum was the most "bang for your buck" center last year. I just showed you he wasn't.

Brook Lopez was. He made $1 million less than Bynum last year, played all 82 games (not 50-55 games like Bynum), and had nearly IDENTICAL averages as Bynum. Even his minutes per game were the same, so you can't argue that Lopez got more PT to get his numbers.

The difference is Brook Lopez will still be a great value next year while Bynum will join the ranks of the overpaid at $12 million per.

Where did you purchase your crystal ball? If Bynum gets his 14-10-2 he will be well worth his 12 mil to the Lakers.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Idk where this thread has gone and I'm too lazy to read all the posts, but the reason why there are no quality big men in the NBA is cause an entire generation of big men skipped college.

[Allanon]

Idk where this thread has gone and I'm too lazy to read all the posts, but the reason why there are no quality big men in the NBA is cause an entire generation of big men skipped college.

That does make some sense. Most of the legendary big men worked things out in college and then came to the NBA when they were 22 or so. Lots of young Big men "made it" to the NBA out of high school/1st year college and decided they were already good enough. And on college teams, they'd get alot more PT than they would in their early years in the NBA.

Unlike guards and forwards, Centers can get away with much less skill/polish due to their size so most of them don't work as hard on their game.

Best Center right now is Dwight who was just outta high school when he came in and it took him several years to get up to speed.

[024]

Idk where this thread has gone and I'm too lazy to read all the posts, but the reason why there are no quality big men in the NBA is cause an entire generation of big men skipped college.
this is true. nba big men are too heavily sought after. like what everyone says, coaches can't teach height, frame, and length. as a result, teams start hoarding 7 footers or anyone athletic big man over 6'10. big men are drafted at a young age because every team wants that "potential" shaq or duncan locked up on their teams. they lose a year or two in college and completely miss out on establishing fundamentals.

and brook lopez will be the best all around big man in the next five years.

[xellos88330]

But if you watch games like where he played the Great Mr. Tim Duncan to a virtual tie, you know he's got some serious talent...at age 21.

It is my understanding that most Laker fans believe Duncan to be too old, and too injured to be playing basketball. I do not think that a Laker fans claiming a virtual tie against Duncan is something too brag about since Duncan isn't much of a factor anymore according to their views. I am not implying that this means you directly Allanon, just using it as an example.

[mountainballer]

and brook lopez will be the best all around big man in the next five years.

"the best" is always a pretty strong claim. why not wait what Blake Griffin can do in some years. his skill set would predestine him to become an even better all around player than Lopez.

personal I think people should keep an eye on the development of Greg Monroe, IMO he will make a big jump this year and (at least) become a top 5 pick 2010. talking about all around game, his skill set is as good as any big man in college.

btw. quite a lot can happen in 5 years from now. it will take two or three more years till a guy named Perry Jones will enter the league. maybe not in 5 years, but in 7 years from now he might be the big man, who gets the label "best all around game".
and never forget: this kid is from Duncanville, Texas. nuff said?

[Culburn369]

It is my understanding that most Laker fans believe Duncan to be too old, and too injured to be playing basketball.

Not at all...at this point in the food chain Duncan is welcome. He's damn near inert.

[c@t]

That does make some sense. Most of the legendary big men worked things out in college and then came to the NBA when they were 22 or so. Lots of young Big men "made it" to the NBA out of high school/1st year college and decided they were already good enough. And on college teams, they'd get alot more PT than they would in their early years in the NBA.

Unlike guards and forwards, Centers can get away with much less skill/polish due to their size so most of them don't work as hard on their game.

Best Center right now is Dwight who was just outta high school when he came in and it took him several years to get up to speed.
40% of immigrants living in US currently are residing in California, naturally most of them are seating their asses on Lakers bandwagon. That's said a lot already... :wakeup

[c@t]

Not to mention the locations of California and the Pacific.

[Culburn369]

40% of immigrants living in US currently are residing in California, naturally most of them are seating their asses on Lakers bandwagon. That's said a lot already... :wakeup

What diff does it make, c@t, they could seat their ass on any bandwagon, ain't gonna make that layup by Lee go in. He flubbed his dub, we lodged #15, you took it up the crapper via the Mavs.

ADDENDUM: Oops, sorry c@t, I thought you were a Spurs compatriot. Above just substitute "Mavs" to "Heat" and carry on oh wayward son, they'll be peace when you are done. Lay to rest your weary head, and hey, don't you cry no more.

[xellos88330]

Not at all...at this point in the food chain Duncan is welcome. He's damn near inert.

So does that mean that Bynum is equally as inert as Duncan since they both played each other to a statistical tie then?

[Culburn369]

So does that mean that Bynum is equally as inert as Duncan since they both played each other to a statistical tie then?

More or less yer asking me if I had my druthers whether I'd pick Duncan OR Bynum at this point in time. That's a toughy, x. I'm a short term kinda a fellow though. I worry about tomorrow---tomorrow. So, admittedly I'd pick Duncan, as an inert as he is...and hope against hope that Bynum doesn't blow up.

[xellos88330]

Lol!!!

[LakeShow]

More or less yer asking me if I had my druthers whether I'd pick Duncan OR Bynum at this point in time. That's a toughy, x. I'm a short term kinda a fellow though. I worry about tomorrow---tomorrow. So, admittedly I'd pick Duncan, as an inert as he is...and hope against hope that Bynum doesn't blow up.

:lol

This is a tough choice but I try to look ahead so I would take Bynum right now. Tim Duncan has rapidly declined. Some say it was injuries but it's wear and tear over the years as well. The Tim Duncan of last season, specifically in the playoffs, has lost 2 steps.

Bynum is young and has many years ahead in this league. I would take Bynum and hope that he blows up.

[Allanon]

It is my understanding that most Laker fans believe Duncan to be too old, and too injured to be playing basketball. I do not think that a Laker fans claiming a virtual tie against Duncan is something too brag about since Duncan isn't much of a factor anymore according to their views. I am not implying that this means you directly Allanon, just using it as an example.

I have a very healthy respect for Tim Duncan...I personally believe he still dominates. Late last year, he had injury issues due to carrying the load all season long while TP & Manu were out. A healthy Duncan is still an elite force to be reckoned with.

Of course, I don't speak for all Laker fans, that's just my point of view.

[xellos88330]

Tim Duncan definitely has some wear and tear on his body, there is no denying that. If he is healthy by the playoffs, I expect to see numbers like those at the beginning of last season when he was carrying the Spurs.

I know that Bynum has the tools, just not sure if he knows how to use them consistently yet. He has great upside, but I do not think he will be compared to a Shaq or Duncan at the end of his career. Once again, this is purely hypothetical based upon what I have seen from Bynums performance.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

If you think Brook Lopez is better than Bynum, I suppose that's your opinion.

At this point, I certainly think he is, and Brook is going to explode this year.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Unlike guards and forwards, Centers can get away with much less skill/polish due to their size so most of them don't work as hard on their game.

Well at least someone else wants to stick to topic rather than mindlessly bash certain players.

You said it perfectly Allanon. In high school, a guy like Kwame Brown can get away with absolutely no skill or polish whatsoever when the other team's tallest player is 6'4".

IMO, big men need that college transition where the significant height advantages go away and there are better team defenses that force him them to work with their back to the basket.....and at the same time, the competition is bad enough for them to be able to develop and get confidence in their post game.

You look at Tyson Chandler and think, yeah, he's a serviceable 8-10 point 8-10 rebound 1-2 blocks per game defender, but all of that talent should have turned into something a lot better than a role player defender.