LOL Andrew Bynum

[j-money24]

Andrew Bynum showing how much overrated he is, he couldn't dominate an undrafted rookie who will likely not make the NBA. You're right Kobe, should have shipped his ass out.


It’s not often that rookie free agent center Garret Siler is forced to look up to someone on a basketball court.
But that’s exactly what happened to the 7-footer Wednesday when Los Angeles Lakers center Andrew Bynum cut through the door of the Hawks’ practice facility to get a workout in at the John “Beans” Beckett Invitational. Bynum and Siler matched up in two different games and Siler acquitted himself well, neither big man dominated the action – that honor belonged to veteran pro Jerry Stackhouse (who has been on a tear this week on both ends of the floor against players much younger).
Siler said he was just happy to have the chance to compete against a pro of Bynum’s caliber.
“This is the best test for me to see guys like [Hawks center] Al Horford and [Bynum] out here,” Siler said. “It helps mentally when you can say, ‘hey, i’m d’ing this guy up and he plays for the world champions. He’s got a ring.’ So if you can hold your own going against and he’s not just destroying you, hey, you must be doing something right.”
It appears that Siler has been doing plenty right this summer. He’s noticeably slimmer today compared to what folks saw of him during the Hawks’ rookie/free agent mini-camp in late July. He said working out back home in Augusta, mostly with his former coaches and some of his teammates that stuck around for the summer, is what helped him get in top physical shape.
“It’s basically up to you,” he said. “It’s about how many shots you want to put up before and or after a workout. You can go from 11 in the morning to 2 p.m in the afternoon on the court. But it’s your option to go to the weight room before that and get up those shots afterward. It’s what you do and how much you want to get better at this level. How much work you put is basically equal to what you get out of it.”
The toughest transition for Siler in these dog days leading up to training camp is finding his way around town.
“I can’t lie to you, my GPS is my friend right now,” Siler said and then laughed. “I do know a lot of the streets right around downtown. I know a lot of the are around here. But it’s about trying to get your bearings down and get a feel for the basics. You start with Peachtree and then Spring Street and then go from there.”


http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2009/09/16/josh-smiths-fingers-are-fine/?cxntfid=blogs_hawks

[Ghazi]

Bring back Stack!!

[cobbler]

Andrew Bynum showing how much overrated he is, he couldn't dominate an undrafted rookie who will likely not make the NBA. You're right Kobe, should have shipped his ass out.



You judge a player based on a couple of pick up games? He's a center with a lot of upside that has had to deal with a couple of big injuries. If he stays healthy this year well see what he is truly capable of. Every report i have seen on him says the same. All the tools, great upside if he can stay injury free. How is that overrating? Oh that's right.... he didnt dominate some guy in a pick up game so he must not have those tools and upside. :lmao

[j-money24]

You judge a player based on a couple of pick up games? He's a center with a lot of upside that has had to deal with a couple of big injuries. If he stays healthy this year well see what he is truly capable of. Every report i have seen on him says the same. All the tools, great upside if he can stay injury free. How is that overrating? Oh that's right.... he didnt dominate some guy in a pick up game so he must not have those tools and upside. :lmao

You know its you kind of fans that overrate his ass, you're just a homer who says Bynum is the next big thing and some of you compare him to Wilt, this dude sucks majority of the time, some fans like you that are judging him on a couple of good games he had in 2008 and 2009, and he's an injury prone.

[spursfan1000]

You judge a player based on a couple of pick up games? He's a center with a lot of upside that has had to deal with a couple of big injuries. If he stays healthy this year well see what he is truly capable of. Every report i have seen on him says the same. All the tools, great upside if he can stay injury free. How is that overrating? Oh that's right.... he didnt dominate some guy in a pick up game so he must not have those tools and upside. :lmao


That's a BIG IF.

[cobbler]

You know its you kind of fans that overrate his ass, you're just a homer who says Bynum is the next big thing and some of you compare him to Wilt, this dude sucks majority of the time, some fans like you that are judging him on a couple of good games he had in 2008 and 2009, and he's an injury prone.

Ohhh so now its fans like me who overrate him. Not the media or scouts. So my saying he has potential (upside) is overating? I never said he's the next big thing. I said he has an upside. How did you equate that to he's the next big thing and comparible to Wilt? Who's the one stretching now?

If by injury prone you mean he's not able to land on a foot or have a 225 pound man collapse into his knee without sustaining an injury then yes I guess he's injury prone.

Sucks the MAJORITY of the time? Whos exagerrating now? He has a career average of 14pts, 10 reb, and 2 blocks over 36 min played and he's just 21. That's WITH the interruptions of the injuries. That is a far cry from sucking my friend.

I'd say a fair assesment would be that he's played some crappy games and he's played some very good games. He hasn't played enough for a whole season to be consistent and truly RATE him..... thus the "potential" comments.

Since you obviously do not know what that means:

Potential:
1 : existing in possibility : capable of development into actuality

[cobbler]

That's a BIG IF.

Well see. Both his injuries were caused by contact with the other player. It's not like he's breaking down like Yao or players like Bill Walton who had injuries without any contact at all.

[sonic21]

The guy is only good in January.

He will be an all-star though, cause he'll put up border-line numbers. And at the center position, on the Lakers, and with the good record the Lakers will have...he'll be an all-star at some point.

[Dunc n Dave]

Sucks the MAJORITY of the time? Whos exagerrating now? He has a career average of 14pts, 10 reb, and 2 blocks over 36 min played and he's just 21. That's WITH the interruptions of the injuries. That is a far cry from sucking my friend.



Actually his career averages are 8.8pts, 6.2 rebounds, and 1.4 blocks. Since he's never averaged more than 29 minutes a game in any season (even when he was a starter), the "per 36 minutes" stat is irrelevant. Once he actually PLAYS 36 minutes a game, then we can look at those "per 36 minutes" stats as meaningful.

Not saying Bynum sucks (he's definitely a Top 10 center right now and has potential to be Top 3), just saying your manipulation of the stats to support your argument is pretty weak when he's never come close to 36 minutes a game.

[iggypop123]

greg ostertag>>tim duncan

[Dunc n Dave]

greg ostertag>>tim duncan

:lol nice...

[exstatic]

greg ostertag>>tim duncan

Bad analogy. Osterfag was the one with the experience, and he used it on the SL rook. Why didn't Bynum do that?

[Culburn369]

The guy is only good in January.

He made Howard quit in June.

tee, hee.

[cobbler]

Actually his career averages are 8.8pts, 6.2 rebounds, and 1.4 blocks. Since he's never averaged more than 29 minutes a game in any season (even when he was a starter), the "per 36 minutes" stat is irrelevant. Once he actually PLAYS 36 minutes a game, then we can look at those "per 36 minutes" stats as meaningful.

Not saying Bynum sucks (he's definitely a Top 10 center right now and has potential to be Top 3), just saying your manipulation of the stats to support your argument is pretty weak when he's never come close to 36 minutes a game.


There was no manipulation of the stats. At basketball-reference.com they project a players numbers over 36 mins as a stat to better compare players that play different amounts. It's not rocket science.

Actually, his career avg is 21 mins. He rarely played (7 mins a game) his rookie year. The last two years, he averaged around 29 mins but as we all know, those years were interrupted by major injuries. Not many players avg 36 mins a game... maybe 20 or so in the NBA.

So i really don't get your point. Are you saying if he actually played 7 more minutes a game that his averages would drop dramatically? I don't think so. I think they would stay pretty much in the average range he has produced.

My original and subsequent posts were only to show that Bynum is far from being the player that "sucks the majority of the time" the orginal poster stated.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bynuman01.html

[21_Blessings]

Andrew Bynum showing how much overrated he is, he couldn't dominate an undrafted rookie who will likely not make the NBA. You're right Kobe, should have shipped his ass out.

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2009/09/16/josh-smiths-fingers-are-fine/?cxntfid=blogs_hawks

Yet Bynum has dominated NBA centers in various games, including: Al Jefferson, Kaman, Okafor, Dalembert, Amare and has played Tim Duncan to a standstill a couple times. Try watching Lakers games sometime.

A random blogger writes a throwaway comment about a meaningless pickup game and you wet yourself. We get it, you don't like Bynum. You're basically a Lakers message board cliche that overreacts to everything you read on the internet.

[21_Blessings]

Oh and Kobe was totally right dude. Ship out a 20 year old center with plenty upside for a 3 year rental of the corpse of Jason Kidd.

[Allanon]

There was no manipulation of the stats. At basketball-reference.com they project a players numbers over 36 mins as a stat to better compare players that play different amounts. It's not rocket science.

Bynum's career isn't long enough and his growth has been exponential. The career numbers don't tell the story because it includes his bench warming rookie/sophomore years.

Simply put, Bynum averaged 14 pts and 8 rebounds last year in just 29 minutes.

Those are excellent numbers.

[cobbler]

Bynum's career isn't long enough and his growth has been exponential. The career numbers don't tell the story because it includes his bench warming rookie/sophomore years.

Simply put, Bynum averaged 14 pts and 8 rebounds last year in just 29 minutes.

Those are excellent numbers.

No argument here. Even with his rookie/soph bench years included... his numbers are far better than the "he sucks the majority of the time" BS J-Money is spewing.

[NBAfan83]

I don't think he sucks, but i guess you can consider him crap for all the hype lakers fans give him.

Do I think he'll be top 50 all time? absolutely not.

Do I think he'll be a serviceable big for the lakers or any other championship team? absolutely, he's better than more than half the scrub big men out there, even if it's just on the offensive end.

Spurs fans needs to stop trashing this kid like he's going to be the next oden, or kwame and Laker fans need to stop hyping this kid to be the next KAJ or Wilt, your never going to be able to build around Bynum, EVER!

[Amaso]

I don't think he sucks, but i guess you can consider him crap for all the hype lakers fans give him.

Do I think he'll be top 50 all time? absolutely not.

Do I think he'll be a serviceable big for the lakers or any other championship team? absolutely, he's better than more than half the scrub big men out there, even if it's just on the offensive end.

Spurs fans needs to stop trashing this kid like he's going to be the next oden, or kwame and Laker fans need to stop hyping this kid to be the next KAJ or Wilt, your never going to be able to build around Bynum, EVER!

Maybe I just don't read these forums frequently enough, but I haven't seen a Laker fan saying he'd be a top 50player at any point. I think its safe to assume he's going to be an all-star, and he probably will be next year with the injury to Yao... but he definitely has potential especially on a team built around him to be a perennial all-star year in and year out.

I guess I'll have to look harder, but I haven't really seen any Laker fans calling him the next KAJ, maybe i've just been unlucky. Even on lakersground.net no one is saying absurd things about that.

[daslicer]

He reminds me a lot of a solid lakers center that was traded to the Charlotte Hornets a decade ago. That centers name was Elden Campbell and Bynum definitely reminds me a lot like him with his gameplay and attitude. Just like Campbell he will have his moments where he looks like an all-star and then will have a stretch of games where he is trash

[Culburn369]

He reminds me a lot of a solid lakers center that was traded to the Charlotte Hornets a decade ago. That centers name was Elden Campbell and Bynum definitely reminds me a lot like him with his gameplay and attitude. Just like Campbell he will have his moments where he looks like an all-star and then will have a stretch of games where he is trash

And a stretch of games in June where he'll make Howard cry "uncle."

tee, hee.

[Dunc n Dave]

There was no manipulation of the stats. At basketball-reference.com they project a players numbers over 36 mins as a stat to better compare players that play different amounts. It's not rocket science.

Actually, his career avg is 21 mins. He rarely played (7 mins a game) his rookie year. The last two years, he averaged around 29 mins but as we all know, those years were interrupted by major injuries. Not many players avg 36 mins a game... maybe 20 or so in the NBA.
So i really don't get your point. Are you saying if he actually played 7 more minutes a game that his averages would drop dramatically? I don't think so. I think they would stay pretty much in the average range he has produced.

My original and subsequent posts were only to show that Bynum is far from being the player that "sucks the majority of the time" the orginal poster stated.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bynuman01.html

That's exactly why "per 36 minute averages" are bullshit. Stars average 35+ minutes per game. Duncan has a career average of 37 minutes a game. Unless Bynum learns to foul less, he'll never reach 36 minutes a game for us to find out if his "averages per 36 minutes" are as legit as basketball-reference.com make them out to be.

Bynum has shown flashes of brilliance and has shown his youth at other times. No one denies the "potential" is there, but injuries and foul trouble could be his undoing, as well.

As stated by another poster in an earlier thread, when a big man loses knee cartilage early in his career he usually has reoccuring knee problems through out his career, and many times his career is cut short. Those 260+ pound bodies can't take the pounding on their knees, especially with less cartilage to cushion the impact of all the running and jumping.

[cobbler]

Maybe I just don't read these forums frequently enough, but I haven't seen a Laker fan saying he'd be a top 50player at any point. I think its safe to assume he's going to be an all-star, and he probably will be next year with the injury to Yao... but he definitely has potential especially on a team built around him to be a perennial all-star year in and year out.

I guess I'll have to look harder, but I haven't really seen any Laker fans calling him the next KAJ, maybe i've just been unlucky. Even on lakersground.net no one is saying absurd things about that.

99% of the Laker fans say he has "potential" and all we need from him is to play D... block some shots and score his 10 points a game. These yahoos who claim laker fans think Bynum is the next coming of Wilt take one or two posts and assume all laker fans think the same way.

[cobbler]

That's exactly why "per 36 minute averages" are bullshit. Stars average 35+ minutes per game. Duncan has a career average of 37 minutes a game. Unless Bynum learns to foul less, he'll never reach 36 minutes a game for us to find out if his "averages per 36 minutes" are as legit as basketball-reference.com make them out to be.

Bynum has shown flashes of brilliance and has shown his youth at other times. No one denies the "potential" is there, but injuries and foul trouble could be his undoing, as well.

As stated by another poster in an earlier thread, when a big man loses knee cartilage early in his career he usually has reoccuring knee problems through out his career, and many times his career is cut short. Those 260+ pound bodies can't take the pounding on their knees, especially with less cartilage to cushion the impact of all the running and jumping.

Pick 20 mins then. 12? 32? Its just a way to create a reference point... nothing more.

[Culburn369]

As stated by another poster in an earlier thread, when a big man loses knee cartilage early in his career he usually has reoccuring knee problems through out his career, and many times his career is cut short. Those 260+ pound bodies can't take the pounding on their knees, especially with less cartilage to cushion the impact of all the running and jumping.

Dunc, that poster was a Spurs fan who still feels taken advantage of by the Mavs. + you & he crossin' your fingers & toes 24/7 ain't helpin' Andrew much. Knock it off.

tee, hee.

[wekko368]

99% of the Laker fans say he has "potential" and all we need from him is to play D... block some shots and score his 10 points a game. These yahoos who claim laker fans think Bynum is the next coming of Wilt take one or two posts and assume all laker fans think the same way.

There have been a few lengthy threads on lakersground comparing Bynum to Olajuwon and the tandem of Bynum/Gasol to Duncan/Robinson.

There are far more idiots on lakersground than you think.

[Culburn369]

There have been a few lengthy threads on lakersground comparing Bynum to Olajuwon and the tandem of Bynum/Gasol to Duncan/Robinson.

There are far more idiots on lakersground than you think.

& now one less since you transferred over.

[cobbler]

There have been a few lengthy threads on lakersground comparing Bynum to Olajuwon and the tandem of Bynum/Gasol to Duncan/Robinson.

There are far more idiots on lakersground than you think.

Never been there.

[daslicer]

And a stretch of games in June where he'll make Howard cry "uncle."

tee, hee.

I didn't see Bynum do anything special in the finals other then being on the winning side. His contributions were even below what Nazr Mohammaed did for the spurs in the '05 finals. The kid is overatted he's a solid player nothing more nothing less.

[wekko368]

& now one less since you transferred over.

Actually, I was banned after participating in the Olajuwon/Bynum thread. It doesn't matter how eloquent, logical, or polite you are, if you're not 100% pro-Laker, you're gone.

And out of curiosity, why are you insulting me? Have I ever disrespected you in any way?

[Dunc n Dave]

Dunc, that poster was a Spurs fan who still feels taken advantage of by the Mavs. + you & he crossin' your fingers & toes 24/7 ain't helpin' Andrew much. Knock it off.

tee, hee.

Who's crossin fingers? I hope the Spurs and Lakers meet in the WCF with both teams at full strength. Then we'll finally see who the best team in the West really is...

You don't want excuses from Spurs fans anymore than we want excuses from Laker fans when the Spurs win...

[wekko368]

Comes with the territory, BITCH!

Nice...internet tough guys. Pathetic.

[Def Rowe]

All athletic bigs are overpaid.

Back to lurking

[wekko368]

Nice... internet sensitive guy. Pathetic.

Not really. For you to offend me in any way means that I'd first have to respect you enough to take your words to heart. I don't.

Since we're on a basketball fan board, you earn that with knowledge, logic, and eloquence....not blind homerism.

I was just curious as to why I was being insulted without any provocation.

[Allanon]

I was just curious as to why I was being insulted without any provocation.

That is PAR for the course here, you'll get used to it :lol

Shit, I had an argument with Findog last year over Derrick Rose, now I kinda miss his posts :lmao

[c@t]

There have been a few lengthy threads on lakersground comparing Bynum to Olajuwon and the tandem of Bynum/Gasol to Duncan/Robinson.

There are far more idiots on lakersground than you think.

your flakes hit your own ass first.

[c@t]

That is PAR for the course here, you'll get used to it :lol

Shit, I had an argument with Findog last year over Derrick Rose, now I kinda miss his posts :lmao
Arguing with dog is probably the stupidest thing you've ever done since you got bred, I would argue with a mouse instead of dog if I were you. Plus, I don't need using my superb sensibilities and eyesight to know you got badly owned by dog and ultimately fled that argument with your tail between legs.

[xellos88330]

The prior injuries slowed his development, so it remains to be seen if he will prove himself to be an actual factor in every game for the Lakers. Personally I think he has the tools, just haven't seem him really use them consistently.

[Chieflion]

Arguing with dog is probably the stupidest thing you've ever done since you got bred, I would argue with a mouse instead of dog if I were you. Plus, I don't need using my superb sensibilities and eyesight to know you got badly owned by dog and ultimately fled that argument with your tail between legs.
Trust me, C@t, you would not want to argue with mouse and his gang of trolls.

[NBAfan83]

Cmon though laker fans, you can't say "Well, this isn't lakergrounds, and we are not the fairweather unknowledgeable fans that make lakergrounds their home"

Laker fans, are Laker fans, that can range from Surprisingly vast bball knowledge to just outright blind homerism.

If you guys feel defensive by being pointed out that way, then we can group you under the laker fans who know about bball and aren't blind homers.

BUT

you gotta admit, the minute bynum scores 20/10 in a stretch of games, regardless of who he is playing, more than half of those so called "knowledgeable bball laker fans" are going to jump ship into the bynum - duncan - hakeem boat.

It's the truth, but it's just what comes with being a fan of any sport.

[NBAfan83]

And spurs fan gotta stop with those degrading comments saying Laker fans are like dogs are lower than that or garbage.

What is it about spurs fans and their superiority complex of trying to sound smarter than the average NBA fan. Last time i checked san antonio texas wasn't the hub of intelligence.

Intelligence isn't based on how much you know about basketball, or by the big words you use. At least I hope spurs fans don't think that way, cuz that would be stupid.

[Culburn369]

Laker fans, are Laker fans, that can range from Surprisingly vast bball knowledge to just outright blind homerism.

I just wish you & your people had more than trace range, 83. This Forum would be much more enjoyable. Carrying our end & your end of the log grows tiresome, daddy-O.

[Culburn369]

What is it about spurs fans and their superiority complex of trying to sound smarter than the average NBA fan.

You can damn well bet the farm it has something to do with your rank insecurity over your total inability to go back-to-back. + that ass whippin' at the hands of the Mavs a few months back didn't help.

tee, hee.

[IronMexican]

And spurs fan gotta stop with those degrading comments saying Laker fans are like dogs are lower than that or garbage.

What is it about spurs fans and their superiority complex of trying to sound smarter than the average NBA fan. Last time i checked san antonio texas wasn't the hub of intelligence.

Intelligence isn't based on how much you know about basketball, or by the big words you use. At least I hope spurs fans don't think that way, cuz that would be stupid.

You're combibulation is simply outrightingly stupidly.

[da_suns_fan]

The worst part of Bynum was his CONTRACT. And that problem has already been mitigated. I thought it might cause the Lakers to lose their REAL MVP in Lamar Odom, but Buss did the right thing and paid him.

Now anyting that Bynum gets them is just a bonus. If he's playing bad (which he often does), Phil Jackson has no problems benching his ass now that he has Gasol and Odom.

[Culburn369]

The worst part of Bynum was his CONTRACT. And that problem has already been mitigated. I thought it might cause the Lakers to lose their REAL MVP in Lamar Odom, but Buss did the right thing and paid him.

Now anyting that Bynum gets them is just a bonus. If he's playing bad (which he often does), Phil Jackson has no problems benching his ass now that he has Gasol and Odom.

See, what'd yer old Dad tell ya's=Suns Fandom are the most knowledgeable in NBA arts & letters than the rest of the kit & kaboodle.

Just bomb diggity, da!

[da_suns_fan]

See, what'd yer old Dad tell ya's=Suns Fandom are the most knowledgeable in NBA arts & letters than the rest of the kit & kaboodle.

Just bomb diggity, da!


Your welcome. :toast

[Morg1411]

I don't think Bynum sucks, but it doesn't appear he has much interest in finding his own potential, either.

[21_Blessings]

I don't think Bynum sucks, but it doesn't appear he has much interest in finding his own potential, either.

Well how can he do that when he's hurt with a knee injury? Both which were very flukish of nature.

He's barely 22 or will be in a month. Would be a senior at UCONN right now if he went to college.

[DPG21920]

The people ragging on Bynum are foolish. If he is healthy, he has already shown the ability. I would question his heart before his talent.

[NBAfan83]

I just wish you & your people had more than trace range, 83. This Forum would be much more enjoyable. Carrying our end & your end of the log grows tiresome, daddy-O.

Log carrying might be tiresome, but not as bad as the system in place for log carriers to log their hours.

[NBAfan83]

Well how can he do that when he's hurt with a knee injury? Both which were very flukish of nature.

He's barely 22 or will be in a month. Would be a senior at UCONN right now if he went to college.

He could very well figure the answer to that question when his contract with the lakers is over though.

[Morg1411]

The people ragging on Bynum are foolish. If he is healthy, he has already shown the ability. I would question his heart before his talent.

What I was trying to say, but worded much better. Thanks. :tu

[Culburn369]

Well how can he do that when he's hurt with a knee injury? Both which were very flukish of nature.

The second one being the most flukish:::Kobe driving to the rim? First time in like 2 seasons (he'd categorically refused in the '08 Finals) and Bynum has to be standing there. I still can't believe it. Either could Bynum.

[Morg1411]

The second one being the most flukish:::Kobe driving to the rim? First time in like 2 seasons (he'd categorically refused in the '08 Finals) and Bynum has to be standing there. I still can't believe it. Either could Bynum.

Didn't his injury in '08 result from bumping into Odom? Dude needs to stay out of the way of his own teammates.

[21_Blessings]

He came down on Odom's foot.

In the time period Bynum was actually playing he never really struggled with little various injuries that most "injury prone" players deal with it. Which why it's way too early to write his career off like many people around here do daily.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I wouldn't really question Bynum's heart. Yeah, maybe he's got a self-entitlement issue most straight out high school players have, but you can't deny the improvements he's made since entering the NBA. His rookie year he shot 30% from the line, and now he's a consistent 70% free throw shooter. That doesn't just happen naturally.

I don't agree with 21 on a whole lot of things, but it's undeniable that Bynum looked like he had completely busted onto the scene right before his injury this year. It'd be impossible to say otherwise.

[TheMACHINE]

i wouldnt call him injured prone..its not like he was runing by himself and his knee broke.

bad luck maybe. lol

[Culburn369]

I don't agree with 21 on a whole lot of things, but it's undeniable that Bynum looked like he had completely busted onto the scene right before his injury this year. It'd be impossible to say otherwise.

Yes, I agree, but, part of the process is overcoming manufactured obstacles. His talent is tangible. That is the over-riding savior here. The Lakers thankfully don't have to wait for Bynum in order to prevail. That's good for the Lakers, but, bad for Bynum. In order for him to flourish, he needs not only to be whole, but, to be granted a path to flourish. He's already a little bushy-tailed not having some importance attached to his game, a dedicated portion of the Lakers strategy just for him. It's a dicey situation.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yes, I agree, but, part of the process is overcoming manufactured obstacles. His talent is tangible. That is the over-riding savior here. The Lakers thankfully don't have to wait for Bynum in order to prevail. That's good for the Lakers, but, bad for Bynum. In order for him to flourish, he needs not only to be whole, but, to be granted a path to flourish. He's already a little bushy-tailed not having some importance attached to his game, a dedicated portion of the Lakers strategy just for him. It's a dicey situation.

I agree completely it's a dicey situation, as it always is when a front line contender has to balance out how much patience they'll have with a developing player and how many wins it will cost to get him the touches he needs.

[21_Blessings]

Getting a healthy Bynum touches won't be costing the Lakers any wins. They were winning just fine pre-Gasol trade as they sat at top of the West at one point.

Last season the Lakers were looking unbeatable when Bynum was posting 25/14/3 the couple weeks before he was injured.

Really, Bynum just needs to stay on the floor. Which starts with his health, then his foul rate and defense. That's what he'll need to flourish on this Lakers team.

[Culburn369]

Really, Bynum just needs to stay on the floor. Which starts with his health, then his foul rate and defense. That's what he'll need to flourish on this Lakers team.

His mental state is what concerns me, 21. He's already a might lit over the treatment he's received. I genuinely believe we're not privy to all of his "outbursts"...that they've been able to keep some in-house. We're content to win the ring with him on the edges. He does not share our contentments. He signed that large contract and now wants the payoff. Not only the money, but, the prestigious position within the team hierarchy the contract assures. I don't think he's really keen on Gasol's presence stealing his light. He wants to be Gasol and let Gasol be him. He did not sign on for this. And he ain't gonna take it sitting down, or, in silence. As even a keel as last season played out for the Lakers Bynum still managed to make his dissatisfaction a major issue. Sooner or later we'll have to confront these issues with him.

[2Cleva]

His mental state is what concerns me, 21. He's already a might lit over the treatment he's received. I genuinely believe we're not privy to all of his "outbursts"...that they've been able to keep some in-house. We're content to win the ring with him on the edges. He does not share our contentments. He signed that large contract and now wants the payoff. Not only the money, but, the prestigious position within the team hierarchy the contract assures. I don't think he's really keen on Gasol's presence stealing his light. He wants to be Gasol and let Gasol be him. He did not sign on for this. And he ain't gonna take it sitting down, or, in silence. As even a keel as last season played out for the Lakers Bynum still managed to make his dissatisfaction a major issue. Sooner or later we'll have to confront these issues with him.

There has been not even a rumor of an outburst from him. Problems with his agent and some family? Yes. But not from Bynum at all.

How did Bynum make himself an issue last year?

[Culburn369]

There has been not even a rumor of an outburst from him. Problems with his agent and some family? Yes. But not from Bynum at all.

How did Bynum make himself an issue last year?

Cleva, please. Jackson admonished him on the court. Kobe had to admonish him on the court during the Finals for Christ sake.

[2Cleva]

His play not being up to par, especially coming back from injury, and having guys try to push him is not the same as him pouting about his role.

Now, Bynum did talk early on in the 1st round about him not getting enough minutes but he swallowed his pride and by the WCF was talking and doing whatever for the team - including sacrificing his own fouls and PT to protect the basket. Even his teammates were giving him props (I recall Fisher and Kobe) of how he was giving himself up for the team.

I worry about Bynum having bad luck and a dumbass agent, not his attitude.

[lil_penny]

Bynum has potential.. way too early to write him off.. keep from getting injured, and getting consistent are really his two biggest problems.. I see him solving those this year. He can be a solid center for the lakers imo.

[2Cleva]

Also, Phil is going to limit Gasol's minutes in the first half of the season especially to compensate for him playing national ball the past 2 summers. Bynum will have plenty of opportunity to do his thing.

[lefty]

Who is that guy wearing #17 for the Lakers?

Did Rick Fox take steroids ?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

2Cleva could be onto something here. I've seen Bynum's face when he's playing well. The kid loves being good at basketball too much to make me believe he has a bad attitude. It's different than Oden who even when playing well seems like he could care less. His problems could have a lot to do with who he surrounds himself with, as well as his pre NBA career. A money grubbing agent who could give two shits about how his client's career turns out, having a high school coach who never said no to him and did a horrible job teaching him how to be a complete basketball player, and a family that wanted money so they told him to skip college even though a 17 year old kid with little to no skill or polish would benefit greatly from 1-2 years of college.

[Culburn369]

But, a player's agent is an extension of themselves. In Bynum's eyes this agent has done him solid returns. He's Bynum's agent, he ain't there to serve the Lakers. It's not a cozy friendship twixt team\player\agent. No. It's adversarial in nature. That is how the model was struck decades ago and "we" can't pick & choose when "we" want to go [cozy] versus the status quo. Bynum is not looking at his agent with a jaundiced eye. No, Bynum is looking at the Lakers with a perhaps dangerous amount of derision. His expectations in the backwash of that contract have not been delivered. Money is not a motivator past about 10 seconds. He wants his place in the sun now. Him taking those 7 shots (1st quarter) in that Finals game (I forget which one) was a broadside to the organization. Bynum was declarin' his line.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Cubby, why is it you don't have a problem with Farmar bitching about his role and demanding to be the starter, but you somehow have a problem with Bynum when he really hasn't done a lot of public whining at all.

[Culburn369]

Cubby, why is it you don't have a problem with Farmar bitching about his role and demanding to be the starter, but you somehow have a problem with Bynum when he really hasn't done a lot of public whining at all.

I don't really have a problem with Bynum and his "cause". I'm just casting some light upon the event. Bynum has legit points of view, he's just caught in bad timing. It's fascinating to me the ying & yang of this particular Laker's situation. I look forward to seeing how they solve it. They're not going to be able to short stroke Bynum as they did Odom (hiring Artest). Bynum wants the dais that Kobe and the rest stand up on. He wants up there.

[21_Blessings]

He signed that large contract and now wants the payoff. Not only the money, but, the prestigious position within the team hierarchy the contract assures. I don't think he's really keen on Gasol's presence stealing his light. He wants to be Gasol and let Gasol be him. He did not sign on for this.

This is all baseless speculation.

To the point though, in your theory Bynum wouldn't have signed a contract with the Lakers if he was worried about Gasol's presence. The trade happened before contract negotiations were even in motion.


Bynum still managed to make his dissatisfaction a major issue. Sooner or later we'll have to confront these issues with him.

It was never a major issue.

[Culburn369]

This is all baseless speculation.

To the point though, in your theory Bynum wouldn't have signed a contract with the Lakers if he was worried about Gasol's presence. The trade happened before contract negotiations were even in motion.



It was never a major issue.

Sure, I'm reading twixt the lines, 21. I've seen enough of this behavior though to form an opinion of import.

I have hunch that in the near end Bynum will be playing for another team. They're currently making their efforts to bring him back onto the reservation, get him to soldier in cadence. They'll pull the trigger quick with him though if they feel he's not salvageable.

[2Cleva]

Culburn - you really are on something. Crack maybe?

LA, is one team, that has in their mentality to always be based on the big man. That's why they got Bynum nor wouldn't give him up even though they could have gotten others for him.

LA was willing to deal Kobe for dealing Bynum. They were willing to let LO walk. No way they are dealing Bynum.

[Culburn369]

Culburn - you really are on something. Crack maybe?

The pressure of a decent give & take discussion get to ya, huh, Clev?

[2Cleva]

No pressure, but some of your takes defy reason.

[tlongII]

I gotta agree with cleva on this one. The Lakers have always been built around the big man. Bynum has the chance to be their next great center and he's only 21. No way in hell would they deal him at this point.

[Culburn369]

I gotta agree with cleva on this one. The Lakers have always been built around the big man. Bynum has the chance to be their next great center and he's only 21. No way in hell would they deal him at this point.

Just a hunch based partly on Jackson's proclivity that once one is banished to his doghouse it's damn near impossible to emerge. I'm not sure Bynum isn't in there already. Jabbar has moved away from him is another red flaggish kneel.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Just a hunch based partly on Jackson's proclivity that once one is banished to his doghouse it's damn near impossible to emerge. I'm not sure Bynum isn't in there already. Jabbar has moved away from him is another red flaggish kneel.


Is Jabbar no longer an assistant coach?

And idk why you think Bynum and Jackson are on such bad terms. Phil IMO is still learning what buttons to push with Bynum to get his defensive intensity up during games. Based on the stuff I read in his book (great book if you haven't read it cubby) and based on what I saw in the finals, Bynum's touches in the 1st quarter are going to increase a lot this year, and that could lead to a breakout from him.

And 21 is kinda right that the reward outweighs the risk of getting Bynum touches. The Lakers will be nearly impossible to beat if Bynum steps up to the plate. God help the other 29 teams if he does.

[2Cleva]

Just a hunch based partly on Jackson's proclivity that once one is banished to his doghouse it's damn near impossible to emerge. I'm not sure Bynum isn't in there already. Jabbar has moved away from him is another red flaggish kneel.

Jabbar moved away from Bynum? Where do you come up with this stuff?

We saw Bynum back in the starting lineup in the playoffs. If he was truly in the doghouse no way Phil lets him start again.

As for Jackson, his future is uncertain as well. But he knows he won every ring thanks to having a defensive big man who controlled the paint. Bynum did that for LA in the playoffs, even with the fouls.

[2Cleva]

Bynum hits hook on the baseline-that's my boy!
8:43 PM Jun 14th from txt

http://twitter.com/kaj33

[21_Blessings]

Bynum will improve, considering how young he is and the fact the he has a history of working hard in the summer.

Odom will continue to age and now his contract is actually movable. If anyone gets dealt or loses minutes it in the near future it will be Lamar, not Bynum.

And Cul, your idea that Bynum desperately seeks validation and recognition would take care of itself assuming Bynum can stay healthy. If he plays like he did before he was hurt last year he will receive more than enough praise and adulation from the media/fans. It's a win/win.

If Bynum plays for another team it will be in 3 years when his contract is up. No point in worrying about that now. Championships to win.

[Culburn369]

Christ, I feel like Daniel Larusso by the chain link fence and you Cobra Kai f'ers dressed in yer skeleton tights kickin' my ass.

F'k, I knew the jig was up when tlong sided ya's.

Where the Hell is that white flag I used back in the Summer of '08 in MA.?

[Morg1411]

Christ, I feel like Daniel Larusso by the chain link fence and you Cobra Kai f'ers dressed in yer skeleton tights kickin' my ass.



:lol

[xellos88330]

Christ, I feel like Daniel Larusso by the chain link fence and you Cobra Kai f'ers dressed in yer skeleton tights kickin' my ass.

F'k, I knew the jig was up when tlong sided ya's.

Where the Hell is that white flag I used back in the Summer of '08 in MA.?

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[DPG21920]

Bynum will beast. I wish he was a Spur.

[Culburn369]

Bynum will beast. I wish he was a Spur.

So, DPG, you would trade Duncan to the Lakers for Bynum? Just twixt you & me, money qualifiers waived. I'll even give you this year with Duncan, then after this year the trade goes down no matter what happens in the interim. You'd do it?

[DPG21920]

So, DPG, you would trade Duncan to the Lakers for Bynum? Just twixt you & me, money qualifiers waived. I'll even give you this year with Duncan, then after this year the trade goes down no matter what happens in the interim. You'd do it?

No. I would not trade Duncan for Bynum. I would never want to trade Duncan (for respect or franchise reasons). If it came down to a basketball decision, the only players worth trading Duncan for imo are Dwight and Lebron. Bynum could be excellent, but not enough potential to trade Duncan for.

If the Spurs were offered Lebron or Dwight for Duncan, I don't know if they would do it for loyalty reasons, but that is what it would take from a talent standpoint and no one would do that.

[Culburn369]

No. I would not trade Duncan for Bynum. I would never want to trade Duncan (for respect or franchise reasons). If it came down to a basketball decision, the only players worth trading Duncan for imo are Dwight and Lebron. Bynum could be excellent, but not enough potential to trade Duncan for.

If the Spurs were offered Lebron or Dwight for Duncan, I don't know if they would do it for loyalty reasons, but that is what it would take from a talent standpoint and no one would do that.

Good stuff, DPG. Thank you for seriously entertaining my presentation.

[jazzypimp]

This thread is turning into a lakerfan anal orgy, No Thanks!

[baseline bum]

Its do or die for Bynum this season. His fifth year, and if he doesn't live up to his self-proclaimed hype, or gets injured, he's trade bait. Especially with the amount of free agents on the market next season.

If he gets injured again, no way he's going to have any trade value with that enormous contract. He's going to be a Laker for a while.

[Culburn369]

If he gets injured again, no way he's going to have any trade value with that enormous contract. He's going to be a Laker for a while.

Hey, bum, what kind of odds do you think exists for us jettisoning Bynum now (getting back $12 million in wampum) and NOT living to legtimately regret it (he blows up)?

[baseline bum]

Hey, bum, what kind of odds do you think exists for us jettisoning Bynum now (getting back $12 million in wampum) and NOT living to legtimately regret it (he blows up)?

Trading Bynum now would be ridiculously stupid. His injuries the last two years ensure LA will never get anything approaching equal talent in trade. He's way too talented to just salary dump. I think the odds are pretty good he'll become a top-tier center in this league, so yeah, Kupchack would most likely be kicking himself (down to the unemployment line no less) if he unloaded him.

[Culburn369]

Trading Bynum now would be ridiculously stupid. His injuries the last two years ensure LA will never get anything approaching equal talent in trade. He's way too talented to just salary dump. I think the odds are pretty good he'll become a top-tier center in this league, so yeah, Kupchack would most likely be kicking himself (down to the unemployment line no less) if he unloaded him.

Food for thought.