Jermaine O'neal- master of rhetoric

[mookie2001]

man Jermaine is smart, he makes the arguement why you don't need college
on NBA Nation tonight

"that situation in Detroit wasn't what it was"

"NBA basketballl is just like any other business, if they ain't getting the job done, they gots to go after the younger, brighter, smarter players, thats just the nature of the game"

"was the highest ratings since the post-Jordan era"

"in college, they teach you about college"

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I posted about this in the NBA forum.


he younger, brighter, smarter players, There is very few HSers turning pro that you could say are brighter or smarter than anyone who's been in the league for at least a year.

I want to see Jermaine explain to me:
Leon Smith (living on a street corner somewhere?)
Sean Livingston (yeah, he's gonna be a player, but he's been hurt all year b/c he's too thin for the league)
Robert Swift (yeah, he's making a huge impact in Seattle)
Ndudi Ebi (really helping the Wolves)
Kendrick Perkins (bench fodder in Boston)
Tskitishvili (bust)
Kwame Brown (for a #1 pick... bust)
DeSagana Diop
Kedrick Brown
William Avery

That's going back to '98. Some of those guys were college fish or sophomores. None would have been eligible to be drafted if the NBA had an age limit of 20.

Suck it Jermaine.

[adidas11]

A list of players who went to college for 4 years:

Anderson Hunt (UNLV)-- didn't make it past preseason with the Celtics
Trajan Langdon (Duke) ---jerking off in Alaska
Cherokee Parks (Duke)---didn't he used to play for the Spurs?
Bobby Hurley (Duke)---he struggled even before his car accident
Chris Carawell (Duke) ---bust

And the list goes on, and on, and on....

Some players make it, and some players don't. Doesn't matter when they jump to the pros.

[Guru of Nothing]

I posted about this in the NBA forum.

There is very few HSers turning pro that you could say are brighter or smarter than anyone who's been in the league for at least a year.

I want to see Jermaine explain to me:
Leon Smith (living on a street corner somewhere?)
Sean Livingston (yeah, he's gonna be a player, but he's been hurt all year b/c he's too thin for the league)
Robert Swift (yeah, he's making a huge impact in Seattle)
Ndudi Ebi (really helping the Wolves)
Kendrick Perkins (bench fodder in Boston)
Tskitishvili (bust)
Kwame Brown (for a #1 pick... bust)
DeSagana Diop
Kedrick Brown
William Avery

That's going back to '98. Some of those guys were college fish or sophomores. None would have been eligible to be drafted if the NBA had an age limit of 20.

Suck it Jermaine.


There isn't.

Why are we questioning the intelligence of players and not the GMs who draft them?

[spurs_2108]

Parks use to be my main man....

[boutons]

I caught him tonight on ESPN. Forgetting about the racism issue, the guy really has troubles getting his thoughts and mouth together. If he wants to be a spokesman for a cause, he's gotta spend some time preparing his thoughts, rather than taking an emotional stance and fucks it up try to articulate it extemporaneously.

[dcole50]

A list of players who went to college for 4 years:

Anderson Hunt (UNLV)-- didn't make it past preseason with the Celtics
Trajan Langdon (Duke) ---jerking off in Alaska
Cherokee Parks (Duke)---didn't he used to play for the Spurs?
Bobby Hurley (Duke)---he struggled even before his car accident
Chris Carawell (Duke) ---bust

And the list goes on, and on, and on....

Some players make it, and some players don't. Doesn't matter when they jump to the pros.
they have college degrees, though (assuming they graduated). these other guys who went pro lost their potential scholarships. they have nothing to fall back on, except playing in the nbdl or overseas. i'm not saying you can't make a good living without a college degree, but it's always helpful to have the opportunity to obtain one.

[Guru of Nothing]

I caught him tonight on ESPN. Forgetting about the racism issue, the guy really has troubles getting his thoughts and mouth together. If he wants to be a spokesman for a cause, he's gotta spend some time preparing his thoughts, rather than taking an emotional stance and fucks it up try to articulate it extemporaneously.

It's contagious!

[Guru of Nothing]

they have college degrees, though (assuming they graduated).

Please diagram your sentence.

[bonesinaz]

At the very least, raising the age to 20 will give young players a chance to mature a little before the pressure of the NBA hits them, college or no college.

Of course there are exceptions, as I think JO would have always been ignorant, even if he had attended college. But that has more to do with his attitude, not the color of his skin. He comes off as unprofessional in a professional league.

[hunter-thereckoning]

guru youre a guru of dicks

[Guru of Nothing]

guru youre a guru of dicks

It helps to have one.

[hunter-thereckoning]

your mom would know that

[IcemanCometh]

Jermaine speaks more coherently and with greater intelligence than most of you

[hunter-thereckoning]

iceman your mom speaks my dick

[hunter-thereckoning]

hunter this is a family site

[boutons]

"young players a chance to mature a little"

There was study of varsity athletics a couple years ago. Varsity players were seen to isolated from general student life, practicing and training year round in their varsity tunnel life, pampered living and dining together in privileged facilities separate from academic students. Taking cakewalk courses, all the tutoring they want, and getting C's or less. And the angle about sports builiding character is pure BS in the high-pressure atmosphere where winning at any cost is the only value.

All of the above tends to worsen every year as major varsity teams become huge businesses with 10's of $Ms sloshing around above and below the table. Character, maturity? more like corruption of values and ego inflation to maniac levels.

More basketball maturity and physical growth? ok, but emotional growth? no way.

[hunter-thereckoning]

thanks

[Guru of Nothing]

hunter this is a family site

Mouse has jumped the shark.

[adidas11]

So NBA players need "more maturing" before they come into the league, but baseball players and tennis players don't? Very interesting.

Heck, what about entertainers like Brittney Spears? Her redneck ass is already pregnant, to some guy who already has a kid with someone else. No one seemed to care when she was a teenager who need "more maturing" before hitting the big time.

Come to think of it, I see the distinct line, and it's precisely the point that Jermaine O'neal hit on. Race.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

adidas,

Baseball has a minor league system, where basically every HSer ends up. And 90% of them don't make it to the pros. I had two teammates in HS who also played baseball who went "pro" right out of HS and rode around the country playing A, AA ball for a few years, now they're back in my home town with not much to show for it and going to a local juco.

Tennis? The average age for the end of a career for a tennis player is 27. The really old ones make it to 31. NBA players don't hit their prime til' they're 29 or so.

HSers can't come straight into the NFL, they shouldn't come into the NBA either.

[Guru of Nothing]

So NBA players need "more maturing" before they come into the league, but baseball players and tennis players don't? Very interesting.

Heck, what about entertainers like Brittney Spears? Her redneck ass is already pregnant, to some guy who already has a kid with someone else. No one seemed to care when she was a teenager who need "more maturing" before hitting the big time.

Come to think of it, I see the distinct line, and it's precisely the point that Jermaine O'neal hit on. Race.

With regards to fans, it's racial; but insofar as Stern is concerned, it's all about bad contracts. Again, it's not about 18 years-old vs. 20 years-old; it's about 22 years-old vs 24 years-old and max contracts.

[bonesinaz]

"young players a chance to mature a little"

There was study of varsity athletics a couple years ago. Varsity players were seen to isolated from general student life, practicing and training year round in their varsity tunnel life, pampered living and dining together in privileged facilities separate from academic students. Taking cakewalk courses, all the tutoring they want, and getting C's or less. And the angle about sports builiding character is pure BS in the high-pressure atmosphere where winning at any cost is the only value.

All of the above tends to worsen every year as major varsity teams become huge businesses with 10's of $Ms sloshing around above and below the table. Character, maturity? more like corruption of values and ego inflation to maniac levels.

More basketball maturity and physical growth? ok, but emotional growth? no way.

You are stereotyping now.

I can do that too. Let's replace 'rich kids' with your varsity althetes study. Rich kids at college don't go to class either and they have tutors and don't eat with the general population of the colleges. Rich kids take easy classes and get Cs or Ds and still pass (BTW- a C is a passing grade- even in medical school).

Secondly, a 'study' that you pull out of thin air means little to me.

Maturity is taught by time, experience and patience. Waiting 2 years won't kill anyone and hopefully they will be better prepared to act in a professional manner when they can play.

[adidas11]

Well Aggie, let the GM's of the teams determine who they can and can not pick. As far as I can tell, the high school kids have been doing just fine in the NBA since Kevin Garnett jumped, with a success rate equal to the players who come into the league after several years in college.

And I agree Guru, Stern's stance on the issue isn't racial by any means. But I don't agree about the age limit (seeing as the NBA doesn't provide a true minor league anyhow), and they'll run into trouble the second the next Lebron James decides to take the league to court over this issue.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Gimme a fucking break adidas.

The GMs of the league that are stuck in the lotto year after year draft on potential, not who can help them in year 1.

There's a perfect minor league for the NBA. It's called college basketball. Fuck, things were so much simpler when Magic and Larry were going at it in the Final Four.

[adidas11]

Quote: "Maturity is taught by time, experience and patience. Waiting 2 years won't kill anyone and hopefully they will be better prepared to act in a professional manner when they can play."

What bullshit. The high school kids have been representing the league just fine, with a *success* rate the same as for the players who played several years in college.

Like I said before, no one seemed to blink an eye about how "professional" players in other sports seem to act. Jennifer Capriati tripping out on ectasy in Tampa, Wayne Rooney getting into it with fans and getting into fights in bars, etc.

[bonesinaz]

You are obviously under 40.

[adidas11]

I see, the wonderful minor league of college basketball, which coincidentally, the NBA pays $0.00 in order to support. Lebron James would have definitely been better off playing at Univ of Cincinnati. LMAO.

Come on Aggie, I know you can do better than that.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This isn't about the successful high school players versus successful college graduates.

This is about all the Leon Smiths of the world flipping burgers for the rest of their lives with nothing to show for it.

Like I said, other sports have different "peak" years. How many 30 year old track stars do you know? It's the same thing for tennis. In those sports, raw power and speed are all that matters.

The tennis stars of the last 20 years and for the rest of time all start at private tennis academies when they're like 10-12 years old and get professional instruction for 5-7 hours a day, plus an in-house nutritionist and weight/cardio trainers.

The only way your tennis v. basketball comparison would hold any ground is if the NBA started little basketball homes for the 10 year old playground ballers of the world to live at, eat, and breathe basketball for all of their teenage childhood.

But that will never happen (and would be ludicrous if it did), so drop it.

[jalbre6]

A list of players who went to college for 4 years:

Anderson Hunt (UNLV)-- didn't make it past preseason with the Celtics
Trajan Langdon (Duke) ---jerking off in Alaska
Cherokee Parks (Duke)---didn't he used to play for the Spurs?
Bobby Hurley (Duke)---he struggled even before his car accident
Chris Carawell (Duke) ---bust

And the list goes on, and on, and on....

Some players make it, and some players don't. Doesn't matter when they jump to the pros.

I love the irony in listing four Dukies (Coach K's guys were notorious for not living up to their college billing until Elton Brand rolled around) and Anderson Hunt in the same statement on full eligibility busts. People forget though that Hunt scored 29 in the title game over the Blue Devils, and just fell off the face of the earth after the drug bust.

But you're dead on about making it. Some guys can do it and some can't.

[SequSpur]

This is not Spurs related. Is illiteracy a requirement to post here?

[jalbre6]

How many 30 year old track stars do you know?
http://img.infoplease.com/images/michaeljohnson.jpg

[bonesinaz]

This is not Spurs related. Is illiteracy a requirement to post here?

Ok, that was kind of funny. :lol

[Guru of Nothing]

Maturity is taught by time, experience and patience. Waiting 2 years won't kill anyone and hopefully they will be better prepared to act in a professional manner when they can play.

Bites lip.

I'll leave the easy lobs for someone else.

[jalbre6]

This is not Spurs related. Is illiteracy a requirement to post here?

Unintentional Comedy Rating Bonus:

A question regarding literacy in a thread talking about O'Neal's rhetorical skills and players going/not going to college.


:lol

[adidas11]

Aggie, Leon Smith can still go to college if he wants do (as long as he qualifies academically).

You live the life that you choose. Don't feel sorry for him.

And now you're saying that you're only allowed to go pro at a young age, as long as you grow up in a secluded and pampered lifestyle (i.e. the tennis acadamies)? If the NBA is so worried about those potential players, why don't they put their money where their mouth is, and provide and support basketball acadamies?

[Leetonidas]

Remember this, Tony Parker was 19 when he came to the Spurs. If they had a 20 year old age limit, we might not have him now.

[Guru of Nothing]

This is about all the Leon Smiths of the world flipping burgers for the rest of their lives with nothing to show for it.


BULLSHIT!

It's much more about Tim Thomas than it is Leon Smith.

Didn't Leon Smith get a contract? What did he miss out on?

[bonesinaz]

Guru-
You can point out my mistakes until kingdom come. I make typos all the live long day. But I am not on national television as a role model to millions. I am not even doing anything here except stating my opinion.

I do not like JO, that is no secret. So go ahead and keep up the good work.;)

[boutons]

Bone-in-azz shudda gone to college. He's emotionally and intellectually stunted at 16 years old. Bad takes on bball, bad takes on anything. He thinks a "stereotype" is always inaccurate.

[bonesinaz]

Remember this, Tony Parker was 19 when he came to the Spurs. If they had a 20 year old age limit, we might not have him now.

Yes, he is an exception to the rule. There are probably many exceptions.

[samikeyp]

You guys are right...it is about color...but the color is green. As long as the owners see these high school kids as a ticket to win, they will continue drafting them.

Personally I think there should be an age limit in all sports, 18.

[bonesinaz]

Bone-in-azz shudda gone to college. He's emotionally and intellectually stunted at 16 years old. Bad takes on bball, bad takes on anything. He thinks a "stereotype" is always inaccurate.

I am not a man, I have 3 college degrees and my name is bones in Arizona. You have proven that you cannot have a polite discourse and have resorted to personal attacks.

bye

[Guru of Nothing]

Guru-
You can point out my mistakes until kingdom come. I make typos all the live long day.

I was not drawing attention to a typo.

[bonesinaz]

OK,
I re-read my post. Guru, I don't care what color a player is. Please do not read anything else into it. thanks

[jalbre6]

Didn't Leon Smith get a contract? What did he miss out on?

College eligibility. But as a first round pick he got guaranteed money, right? I'm not going to cry over someone who tried to OD on aspirin after going to his old high school in Chicago to confront his (ex?) girlfriend.

The Mavs took a gamble on him and lost. He gambled on his skills instead of going to college and honing his game, and maybe growing up a little. Sad, yeah. But he got paid.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

And now you're saying that you're only allowed to go pro at a young age, as long as you grow up in a secluded and pampered lifestyle (i.e. the tennis acadamies)?

That's not what I'm saying at all, but thanks for missing the point completely.

My point was that you can't compare tennis to pro basketball because the whole developmental process of a youth tennis player is substantially different than that of a basketball player.

[Guru of Nothing]

College eligibility. But as a first round pick he got guaranteed money, right? I'm not going to cry over someone who tried to OD on aspirin after going to his old high school in Chicago to confront his (ex?) girlfriend.

The Mavs took a gamble on him and lost. He gambled on his skills instead of going to college and honing his game, and maybe growing up a little. Sad, yeah. But he got paid.

Pardon the Bill Hicks rip-off, but a card trick means more to a dog than college eligibility could have ever meant to Leon Smith.

[IcemanCometh]

leon smith was crazy, no amount of waiting would ever fix that

[jalbre6]

Pardon the Bill Hicks rip-off, but a card trick means more to a dog than college eligibility could have ever meant to Leon Smith.

:lol

You got a point there, GoN. But if he wanted to, he could have gone to college. Someone (Bob Huggins and John Calipari, please stand up) would have gotten him in school and kept him eligible for at least one season.

I personally don't think that option ever even crossed Smith's mind, but it was there if desired. He did the right thing for himself at that point in time, especially if you consider when he was drafted six years ago HS'ers weren't that popular in the draft.

[samikeyp]

Why aren't we questioning the intelligence of the editors of Time magazine? Jebron got voted one of the top 100 most influential people of the year.
Why, because he influences gas prices in cleveland by setting an example by driving an H2?

You forgot that he also owns a closet full of throwbacks! :lol