Great QB or Greatest QB?

[dirk4mvp]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/08/fullj.ad094f154cc614369720aaff0c66f87f/ad094f154cc614369720aaff0c66f87f-getty-88971943db007_indianapolis_.jpg

Last 2 drives were so cash.


Fuck you wildcat.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

As bushleague as the wildcat is......Arizona should be taking notes about it against the Colts for next week :lol, Boldin is a perfect fit to run it.

[dirk4mvp]

As bushleague as the wildcat is......Arizona should be taking notes about it against the Colts for next week :lol, Boldin is a perfect fit to run it.

No doubt Boldin would toss the puny Colts' defenders around.


People can gush over Drew Brees and him throwing 75 td's this year, but games like tonight is why I'll take Peyton and be happy about it.

[monosylab1k]

Now that Brady currently sucks, Manning is the best QB in the game by a mile.

[IronMexican]

Greatest QB of all time. He's just unreal.

[monosylab1k]

greatest qb of all time.

rofl

[J.T.]

Fuck you wildcat.

I keep telling myself the last time the Colts were this bad at stopping the run, they won a Super Bowl.

We need Sanders bad. Though I will say if Gonzalez is out the full 8 weeks and the Colts are 9-0 when he comes back, Manning better be first on everyone's MVP ballot at that point.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Peyton is first on my MVP ballot right now. I agree with Dirk, stats are a lot less important than a QB who can take what is given to him and put his team in the best position to win. It's not even a question right now who the best QB in the NFL is.

[IronMexican]

Manning is the Colts. dirk tries to give props to Wayne on Live. No, its all Peyton.

[monosylab1k]

All-time I'll still take Montana, Brady, Staubach, and Favre over Manning.

[J.T.]

Its all Manning. Wayne was basically shut down by a noob rookie.

More like Miami was afraid of Wayne since they double covered him the whole game.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I'm tired of ESPN gushing all over this wildcat bullshit. This gimmick offense just lost the game, stop talking about it, Steve Young is right, it's nothing more than a fad, like 2005-2007 Nashketball.

[IronMexican]

The WC lost it? You havee to be kidding. Its no gimmick. it works.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Its not a fad when Ronnie Brown runs it



It's a fad until it demonstrates success in the playoffs. Until then, it's a gimmick that took the NFL by surprise for a short period of time and is completely useless in the fourth quarter of a close game.

[monosylab1k]

The WC lost it? You havee to be kidding. Its no gimmick. it works.

The wildcat is absolutely a bullshit little gimmick. It worked great for 3 months but it's already getting exposed. By next season nobody will be running it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

it works.


In the regular season against crappy teams.

[balli]

Its not a fad when Ronnie Brown runs it, hes a fucking beast. I have him behind AP and Gore in the top 3 of the NFL.

Ronnie Brown and the wildcat swung my fantasy game in my favor. It also generated a win for the Colts. It may not be a fad when Ronnie Brown runs it, but in terms of helping the team, I'm with Jaws and Young, there is not much of an advantage. Sure it's nice to eat up the time and defense with chunks of yardage, but damn, if you can't throw the ball downfield out of a traditional formation, what good does that do for you in the end?

[monosylab1k]

The wildcat is only viewed as a success cuz it was unleashed on the Patriots and Belichick got curbstomped by it. Everybody forgets that the next time the Dolphins & Patriots met, the wildcat was about as useful as an asshole on your elbow.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The wildcat is only viewed as a success cuz it was unleashed on the Patriots and Belichick got curbstomped by it. Everybody forgets that the next time the Dolphins & Patriots met, the wildcat was about as useful as an asshole on your elbow.


:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The Wildcat raped the entire Colts defense tonight


For the first 58 minutes of the game. Where was this awesome spectacular offense when the team needed it most?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

if you can't throw the ball downfield out of a traditional formation, what good does that do for you in the end?


It's just like run and gun basketball. Great, you can run the Memphis Grizzlies off the court just by pushing the tempo, now go run a set play against the Boston Celtics when you need a score.

[monosylab1k]

They used it twice and tried to run a spread offense with Chad Pennington, I watched the game.

So no, it didnt get curbstomped by them.

Maybe you need to review the game tape.

first meeting with NE last year, they ran the Wildcat 6 times and got 4 TD's.

second meeting with NE, they ran the Wildcat 8 times for 25 yards and 0 TD's.

[balli]

You are criticizing the wrong thing. Its not the WC that needs to go, its Chad Pennington who can barely stretch the field.
I'd agree that the wildcat doesn't need to go, but if they were to develop a real passing game and lose the wildcat, they'd be in a lot better shape than if they kept the WC and never learned how to pass the ball.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You are criticizing the wrong thing. Its not the WC that needs to go, its Chad Pennington who can barely stretch the field.


I never said the wildcat needs to go completely, I'm saying it can't be the focal point and first scoring option of an offense. If it's something used to compliment an already good offense, that's fine. When it's something a team over uses due to it's inability to run a real offense, it's a gimmick.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Why would you blame Pennington? It isn't his fault Ginn really isn't a #1 WR. Teddy's attempt at catching that ball in the end zone was laughable.

You simply have to make that catch.

[Spurs rock]

Brett Favre is the greatest QB of all time.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Brett Favre is the greatest QB of all time.

:lmao

[dirk4mvp]

You all may think I'm overrating him, but if Sanders plays tonight, it's not nearly as successful. He's built to blow stuff like that up. Especially since there's no threat of throwing it. And that last 2 minute drive by Miami was the worst attempt at offensive football I've ever seen.

[slayermin]

Don't forget about Johnny U.

http://imagecache5.art.com/p/LRG/12/1248/U31T000Z/johnny-unitas--passing-action-b-w.jpg

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You all may think I'm overrating him, but if Sanders plays tonight, it's not nearly as successful. He's built to blow stuff like that up. Especially since there's no threat of throwing it. And that last 2 minute drive by Miami was the worst attempt at offensive football I've ever seen.


I completely agree it's not nearly as effective, just like the run in general against the Colts when Sanders is healthy. Regardless, when your in the playoffs against the Jets and Rex Ryan has a week to prepare blitzing schemes, the wildcat will be useless.

[dirk4mvp]

I completely agree it's not nearly as effective, just like the run in general against the Colts when Sanders is healthy. Regardless, when your in the playoffs against the Jets and Rex Ryan has a week to prepare blitzing schemes, the wildcat will be useless.
Bart Scott would make Brown look like a sissy cuckold. I can't wait for MNF in a couple weeks.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Bart Scott would make Brown look like a sissy cuckold.


He'd get the sloppy seconds of what Kris Jenkins didn't take care of.

[Ditty]

elway>manning

give elway mannings reciever in the past and he would be a 40 passing touchdown quaterback every year

[stretch]

I'll take Peyton over anyone. No QB has ever made an entire offense look exponentially better the way Peyton Manning does. He made a 5'11 posession receiver in Marvin Harrison (who is not any better than say Derrick Mason) even look better than Randy freaking Moss for a lot of his career. If it wasn't for Manning, Harrison wouldn't have had NEAR the success that he has had. Same for Reggie Wayne. Seriously, the majority of the players on the Colts offense right now are rather mediocre, but Manning makes them all look like Pro-Bowlers. The guy makes amazing reads, puts the ball on the money, and simply knows football like no one else. It's too bad that the Colts have consistently put shitty players around him, but think that they are good because Manning makes them look a lot better than they seem. Can you imagine if he had Randy Moss to throw to? He would have had well more than 50 TD passes.

Manning is simply the best QB ever.

[IronMexican]

I'll take Peyton over anyone. No QB has ever made an entire offense look exponentially better the way Peyton Manning does. He made a 5'11 posession receiver in Marvin Harrison (who is not any better than say Derrick Mason) even look better than Randy freaking Moss for a lot of his career. If it wasn't for Manning, Harrison wouldn't have had NEAR the success that he has had. Same for Reggie Wayne. Seriously, the majority of the players on the Colts offense right now are rather mediocre, but Manning makes them all look like Pro-Bowlers. The guy makes amazing reads, puts the ball on the money, and simply knows football like no one else. It's too bad that the Colts have consistently put shitty players around him, but think that they are good because Manning makes them look a lot better than they seem. Can you imagine if he had Randy Moss to throw to? He would have had well more than 50 TD passes.

Manning is simply the best QB ever.

:tu

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Great post Stretch. The game I actually began to respect him was actually game they lost to the Chargers, 21-23. I'm pretty sure Starvin' Marvin, Clark and Gonzalez were all injured. Their D was also banged up as could be. So yeah, he had a horrible statistical game (6 interceptions). Even with all these injuries and being down 0-16 after the first quarter, he still managed to put his team in a position where all it needed to win was a dinky FG from the most clutch kicker of all time, which he happened to miss.

Even though his stats have been down the last two years, these are the years that show just how good Peyton is. Even with the left tackle who's been protecting his entire career gone, his favorite target since he entered the league being worthless/injured, injuries and inconsistencies from the defense, O-line and running game, they still won 12+ games each of the last two years. Right now, I say Brady and Manning are about on the same level. Neither one gets the props they should get for the two year period where their team was horrible and they kept it afloat (Brady in 2005 and 2006).

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Great post Stretch. The game I actually began to respect him was actually game they lost to the Chargers, 21-23. I'm pretty sure Starvin' Marvin, Clark and Gonzalez were all injured. Their D was also banged up as could be. So yeah, he had a horrible statistical game (6 interceptions). Even with all these injuries and being down 0-16 after the first quarter, he still managed to put his team in a position where all it needed to win was a dinky FG from the most clutch kicker of all time, which he happened to miss.



Gonzo wasn't on the team and if this isn't swallowing the chode, I don't know what is.

The Colts D kept them in that game and was the sole reason they had a chance to win in that game.

They guy is great, but let's not swallow the gravy all at once, eh?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Gonzo wasn't on the team and if this isn't swallowing the chode, I don't know what is.

The Colts D kept them in that game and was the sole reason they had a chance to win in that game.

They guy is great, but let's not swallow the gravy all at once, eh?


My mistake. Still, he was led a 4th quarter comeback against once of the best teams that year with no name receivers who have done nothing since that game.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Reggie Wayne had 10 catches for 140 yards and a TD.

[LnGrrrR]

I'll take Peyton over anyone. No QB has ever made an entire offense look exponentially better the way Peyton Manning does. He made a 5'11 posession receiver in Marvin Harrison (who is not any better than say Derrick Mason) even look better than Randy freaking Moss for a lot of his career. If it wasn't for Manning, Harrison wouldn't have had NEAR the success that he has had. Same for Reggie Wayne. Seriously, the majority of the players on the Colts offense right now are rather mediocre, but Manning makes them all look like Pro-Bowlers. The guy makes amazing reads, puts the ball on the money, and simply knows football like no one else. It's too bad that the Colts have consistently put shitty players around him, but think that they are good because Manning makes them look a lot better than they seem. Can you imagine if he had Randy Moss to throw to? He would have had well more than 50 TD passes.

Manning is simply the best QB ever.

I would argue that the relative non-existence of Branch and Givens once they left the Pats would also bolster Brady using the same logic.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I would argue that the relative non-existence of Branch and Givens once they left the Pats would also bolster Brady using the same logic.


Also that he led a team with Reche Caldwell as its best receiver to a conference championship game.

[LOL texans]

Peyton is first on my MVP ballot right now. I agree with Dirk, stats are a lot less important than a QB who can take what is given to him and put his team in the best position to win. It's not even a question right now who the best QB in the NFL is.

QFT!

Manning is so cerebral. I love watching him quarterback. Love him or hate him, if you don't appreciate his game you don't "get" football.He has such a mastery of the position and doesn't need a gimmick, pass 50 times a game offense to win. His play action, his accuracy. He also didn't need to run up scores on games to achive 50 TD tosses.

The run D will come around, that I am sure of. Especially once Bob comes around.

LOL @ texan fans thinking they are "competition" for us. :lmao

LOL @ Saints fans thinking Brees is a better QB. :lol

[mookie2001]

Now that Brady currently sucks, Manning is the best QB in the game by a mile.
better than brees by a mile?

[LnGrrrR]

Speaking of play-action, that's one thing I've noticed was missing from the Pats game plan. I think I've seen it once this season.

I'm sure part of it is they can't get a consistent running game, but still, I'd expect to see it more often.

[LOL texans]

better than brees by a mile?

Yes, and Petyon has proven it.

[stretch]

After some more deep statistical research, I don't think there is any question that Peyton Manning has proven to be the best QB the game has seen. And I would have to say that Tom Brady is probably the next best QB of all time.

check www.pro-football-reference.com and compare Peyton to other great QBs... he pretty much either has already, or is about to blow everyone else away in pretty much all categories.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I don't think it's extremely likely, but if Peyton gets another ring, he's easily the best QB of all time.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I don't think he'll ever be considered better than Montana. Montana's play in the playoffs, especially in the SBs, was ridiculous.

[LOL texans]

I don't think he'll ever be considered better than Montana. Montana's play in the playoffs, especially in the SBs, was ridiculous.

I think people will look beyond that when all is said and done because of his sheer mastery. However, I wouldn't argue if someone disagrees with me and says that Montana is the best of all time because that their are valid arguments on both sides.

[dirk4mvp]

better than brees by a mile?

Uh, yeah.

Has Brees ever actually been in a pressure situation?

[dirk4mvp]

I'll take Peyton over anyone. No QB has ever made an entire offense look exponentially better the way Peyton Manning does. He made a 5'11 posession receiver in Marvin Harrison (who is not any better than say Derrick Mason) even look better than Randy freaking Moss for a lot of his career. If it wasn't for Manning, Harrison wouldn't have had NEAR the success that he has had. Same for Reggie Wayne. Seriously, the majority of the players on the Colts offense right now are rather mediocre, but Manning makes them all look like Pro-Bowlers. The guy makes amazing reads, puts the ball on the money, and simply knows football like no one else. It's too bad that the Colts have consistently put shitty players around him, but think that they are good because Manning makes them look a lot better than they seem. Can you imagine if he had Randy Moss to throw to? He would have had well more than 50 TD passes.

Manning is simply the best QB ever.


Good post except for the bolded which I don't think any sane person would say. Harrison is the best route runner and has arguably the best hands of all time. But he's not any better than Mason. rofl.

[LnGrrrR]

After some more deep statistical research, I don't think there is any question that Peyton Manning has proven to be the best QB the game has seen. And I would have to say that Tom Brady is probably the next best QB of all time.

check www.pro-football-reference.com (http://www.pro-football-reference.com) and compare Peyton to other great QBs... he pretty much either has already, or is about to blow everyone else away in pretty much all categories.

Which is what's so great about the annual Pats/Colts game. We get to see a rivalry of two stars in their prime, and the game nearly always has post season implications.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

better than brees by a mile?

What has Brees ever done other than shit all over really bad pass defenses?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

So he's pre-2005 Manning?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

So he's pre-2005 Manning?

Pre-2005 Manning still made the playoffs every year. The Saints have made it one outa three times with Brees.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Not only is he probably the greatest QB of all time, he is already the greatest actor on a skit show ever.

[monosylab1k]

Pre-2005 Manning still made the playoffs every year. The Saints have made it one outa three times with Brees.

:tu pre-2005 Manning still took his team to AFC Championship Games with one of the worst defenses in the league. Brees leads his all offense/no defense teams to regular 8-8 showings.

[stretch]

Good post except for the bolded which I don't think any sane person would say. Harrison is the best route runner and has arguably the best hands of all time. But he's not any better than Mason. rofl.

What is even funnier is his "great route running" and "best hands of all time" didn't do shit for him in the playoffs. I think people most definitely could make an argument that Marvin Harrison is amongst the most overrated players of all time, and there isn't a doubt in my mind that guys like Derrick Mason, Hines Ward, or others could put up the same kinds of numbers. Hell, Reggie Wayne is doing it right now. Randy Moss and T.O. would have been hauling in 20+ TDs every other year.

Harrison = overrated.

[Ghazi]

:tu pre-2005 Manning still took his team to AFC Championship Games with one of the worst defenses in the league. Brees leads his all offense/no defense teams to regular 8-8 showings.

Maybe cause uh, his teams have no defense?


If the Chargers kept him he would have had a ring guys!!

[symple19]

better than brees by a mile?
YES

For those trying to compare Peyton to Joe Montana, I won't even listen to that until he has another ring

[monosylab1k]

Maybe cause uh, his teams have no defense?

Are you even paying attention to what the hell is going on?

Someone compared Brees to pre-2005 Peyton. Which is crap, because alot of Peyton's teams never played defense and he still got them to the playoffs every year, while Brees doesn't.

Don't be a dumbshit, Ghazi.

[Phillip]

why is ghazi such a moron?

and where the fuck has beefanus been? i want to see him tell us how worthlessburger is the best ever

[LOL texans]

Maybe cause uh, his teams have no defense?


If the Chargers kept him he would have had a ring guys!!

Thats a stupid excuse. Quit resting Brees nuts on your chin.

When have the Colts had a good defense? Never mattered because Manning always got them in the playoffs and won a game or 2 or 3.


If the Chargers had kept him he would still be ringless! AND have lesser stats that you are so in love with

[Dr. Gonzo]

Stats aside, what makes him the best QB ever is his ability to read a defense before the snap and command his offense. I have never seen a QB pretty much be the OC on the field and nail almost any pass imaginable. He has a great football IQ, great arm and is more mobile that he is given credit for. He will have a couple more rings before he retires and there will be no argument.

[bostonguy]

Manning is a great QB. Due to Bradys shaky start, I have to say he is the best in the league. If/When Brady gets it going again, he will slide back to #1 and Manning will be 1a. Brady at the moment is no where near Peyton or any other pro bowl QB.

[bostonguy]

Oh and Montana is the best QB of all time.

[Phillip]

If/When Brady gets it going again, he will slide back to #1 and Manning will be 1a.

Wrong.


Oh and Montana is the best QB of all time.

Wrong.

[LOL texans]

Manning is a great QB. Due to Bradys shaky start, I have to say he is the best in the league. If/When Brady gets it going again, he will slide back to #1 and Manning will be 1a. Brady at the moment is no where near Peyton or any other pro bowl QB.

Brady is rusty as hell but no doubt in my mind he'll shake it off. He'll be back to form by their 6th game I predict, setting up another classic Brady-Manning duel in November. :ihit

[bostonguy]

Wrong.



Wrong.


lol raiders
lol Brady>Manning
lol Montana>Brady>Manning

[bostonguy]

Brady is rusty as hell but no doubt in my mind he'll shake it off. He'll be back to form by their 6th game I predict, setting up another classic Brady-Manning duel in November. :ihit

I love those Colt/Patriot games. By then MAYBE we will see the 2 best qbs duke it out in Indy. Should make for a great Sunday Night game if Brady finally gets going by then.:toast

[IronMexican]

2007 AFC Championship is on ESPN2. Not the whole game, but most of the good stuff in a hour and thirty minute thing.

[monosylab1k]

Great as Peyton is, there's still no denying that the guy is a world-class choker. The only clutch performance I can think of is the last Championship Game against the Patriots. He sucked ass in the Super Bowl but lucky for him, Rex Grossman sucked more ass.

[bostonguy]

2007 AFC Championship is on ESPN2. Not the whole game, but most of the good stuff in a hour and thirty minute thing.

Classic yet heartbreaking game. I won't lie, I rooted for the Colts in the superbowl that year. I wanted Peyton to get that ring.

[monosylab1k]

Classic yet heartbreaking game. I won't lie, I rooted for the Colts in the superbowl that year. I wanted Peyton to get that ring.

:lol at the time, I seriously would rather have eaten a pound of fresh dog shit than see Peyton win that ring. Looking back now, I've got more respect for Peyton and the Colts than any other Pats rival, so I'm happy he got his ring.

[IronMexican]

Classic yet heartbreaking game. I won't lie, I rooted for the Colts in the superbowl that year. I wanted Peyton to get that ring.

I never root for any team I hate. I wanted Elway to end his career with none.

[bostonguy]

:lol at the time, I seriously would rather have eaten a pound of fresh dog shit than see Peyton win that ring. Looking back now, I've got more respect for Peyton and the Colts than any other Pats rival, so I'm happy he got his ring.

:lmao:lmao I know the feeling. I just didn't want to see Rex Grossman with a ring.

[IronMexican]

It would have sucked to see Rex win a ring. He could be an analyst on ESPN like Trent Dilfer 10 years from now and talk about what it takes to be a Super Bowl champion QB :lmao

[bostonguy]

I never root for any team I hate. I wanted Elway to end his career with none.

I used to "hate" the Colts but I don't anymore. It is probably because Manning is my second favorite QB behind Brady. I hate all our divisional rivals, the Broncos for the years they owned us, and the Steelers. That is for the AFC.

[Phillip]

Peyton > Brady

[J.T.]

Stick 'em in the mouth!

[J.T.]

I never root for any team I hate. I wanted Elway to end his career with none.

Wouldn't you have been like three years old when Elway won his Super Bowls?

[IronMexican]

I was 8 and 9 when he won them. I already learned to hate the Chiefs and Broncos by then.

[Horry For 3!]

He isn't the greatest QB but he is a great one.

[xellos88330]

Joe Montana

[SpuronyourFace]

I only saw Joe play at the end of his career. But Peyton is clearly the best I have ever seen play.

[LnGrrrR]

:lol at the time, I seriously would rather have eaten a pound of fresh dog shit than see Peyton win that ring. Looking back now, I've got more respect for Peyton and the Colts than any other Pats rival, so I'm happy he got his ring.

This. :lol

But honestly, I've also got more respect since he finally gutted out a win in the playoffs. I don't hate him or disrespect him... as much.

[LnGrrrR]

I'm not sure if I "hate" the Colts. I mean, I don't want to see them beat us, and I hate losing to them. But I don't want them to go, say, 4-12, like I do the Dolphins or Jets.

[dirk4mvp]

Great as Peyton is, there's still no denying that the guy is a world-class choker. The only clutch performance I can think of is the last Championship Game against the Patriots. He sucked ass in the Super Bowl but lucky for him, Rex Grossman sucked more ass.

He's had his bad moments, but he's also had his great clutch moments. Did you expect him to throw 400 yards and 4 tds against the Bears in the SB? If the Saints would've made it he would have.

[dirk4mvp]

What is even funnier is his "great route running" and "best hands of all time" didn't do shit for him in the playoffs. I think people most definitely could make an argument that Marvin Harrison is amongst the most overrated players of all time, and there isn't a doubt in my mind that guys like Derrick Mason, Hines Ward, or others could put up the same kinds of numbers. Hell, Reggie Wayne is doing it right now. Randy Moss and T.O. would have been hauling in 20+ TDs every other year.

Harrison = overrated.


:lmao Ward


Wayne is up there with Harrison, but he's never caught 140 balls while having another legit #1 reciever on his other side.

[stretch]

:lmao Ward


Wayne is up there with Harrison, but he's never caught 140 balls while having another legit #1 reciever on his other side.

Wayne > Harrison

[manufan10]

Stats aside, what makes him the best QB ever is his ability to read a defense before the snap and command his offense. I have never seen a QB pretty much be the OC on the field and nail almost any pass imaginable. He has a great football IQ, great arm and is more mobile that he is given credit for. He will have a couple more rings before he retires and there will be no argument.

This.

[DAF86]

The fact that Manninng could arguably be the greatest QB ever, makes me think that the NFL needs its Michael Jordan.

[stretch]

The fact that Manninng could arguably be the greatest QB ever, makes me think that the NFL needs its Michael Jordan.

They do. His name is Jamarcus Russell.

[LnGrrrR]

The fact that Manninng could arguably be the greatest QB ever, makes me think that the NFL needs its Michael Jordan.

Only the NBA and NHL can have those figures. (And both do. Jordan and Gretzky.)

Baseball and football rely too much on teamwork for their to be one player who obviously dominates above all. (That's why Babe Ruth is considered the 'best' player... he was one of the greatest hitters of all time, and a great pitcher for awhile too.)

[DAF86]

Only the NBA and NHL can have those figures. (And both do. Jordan and Gretzky.)

Baseball and football rely too much on teamwork for their to be one player who obviously dominates above all. (That's why Babe Ruth is considered the 'best' player... he was one of the greatest hitters of all time, and a great pitcher for awhile too.)

I can't think of any other sport (well maybe baseball with the pitcher but I don't really follow baseball that much) where a team relies so much in only one player. You can have the best players in an NFL team but if your QB sucks, chances are that 90% of the time your team isn't going to win.

[Spurs rock]

Brett Favre is the Michael Jordan of the NFL. Or should I say, Michael Jordan in the Brett Favre of the NBA.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

^Michael Jordan would never have a 29 interception season.

[exstatic]

Greatest QB of all time. He's just unreal.

Nope.
http://www.meetingtent.com/MeruMadeEasy/images/(SC)Joe_Montana_Photo.jpg

[bostonguy]

Nope.
http://www.meetingtent.com/MeruMadeEasy/images/(SC)Joe_Montana_Photo.jpg

:toast

[exstatic]

No one has run the full package of the Single Wing. When they start really implementing the passing portions, it will bloom. To defend the run section, you need gap discipline, MAJOR gap discipline. That means if you master the passing part, there is no team in the league that can run the dime DB package on you. If they do, you run 10-15 yard chunks on them. Then, when they finally start honoring the line of scrimmage, you pass into a sparse 4 man DB backfield. It's one formation where you can run ANY kind of play: a dive, a pitch, a short pass, a long bomb. There's no tip off, and you're not committed to the called play. How do you set up a defense when the formation is the same on every play? The Single Wing FEEDS upon over aggressive defenses, and that's what's in vogue today. It forces you to play a very vanilla, plain conventional defense.

[slayermin]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aSeRfedvwdg/SHLMRbfMnwI/AAAAAAAAAFE/Ba7mxOFoYL8/s320/Dan%2520Marino.jpg

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/2/23286/1040963-steveyoung_large.jpg

Two more to consider.

[callo1]

Montana all time...hands down.

[samikeyp]

Otto Graham.

[Phillip]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_aSeRfedvwdg/SHLMRbfMnwI/AAAAAAAAAFE/Ba7mxOFoYL8/s320/Dan%2520Marino.jpg

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/2/23286/1040963-steveyoung_large.jpg

Two more to consider.

No and no.

The only three to consider is Manning, Brady, and Montana. And I think Manning and Brady both surpassed Montana, who benefited greatly from playing in an era where heavy passing had just started to take the league by storm, a system that no one had seen before (west coast offense), and great weapons such as Rice, Taylor, and more. Most teams were still geared to stop the run more than anything. Remember the 85 Bears? Hard-nosed, smash mouth defense, that suffered their only loss to a Dolphins team that utilized a heavy passing, spread attack... something they hadn't seen much of all year.

Manning and Brady both have been able to be successful in multiple systems.

Plus, are you really going to tell me that Brady and Manning couldn't have done what Montana did? Going back and forth between letting Rathman pound the shit out of their opponent, and throwing short, accurate, timed passes to guys like Jerry Rice?

Please. :rolleyes

[kamikazi_player]

No and no.

The only three to consider is Manning, Brady, and Montana. And I think Manning and Brady both surpassed Montana, who benefited greatly from playing in an era where heavy passing had just started to take the league by storm, a system that no one had seen before (west coast offense), and great weapons such as Rice, Taylor, and more. Most teams were still geared to stop the run more than anything. Remember the 85 Bears? Hard-nosed, smash mouth defense, that suffered their only loss to a Dolphins team that utilized a heavy passing, spread attack... something they hadn't seen much of all year.

Manning and Brady both have been able to be successful in multiple systems.

Plus, are you really going to tell me that Brady and Manning couldn't have done what Montana did? Going back and forth between letting Rathman pound the shit out of their opponent, and throwing short, accurate, timed passes to guys like Jerry Rice?

Please. :rolleyes
Uhhh..no. Maybe par with Montana, at least for Brady, but Manning is not that far behind.

[Ghazi]

do we all agree that the Vikings are the best team in the NFL?

[Phillip]

Uhhh..no. Maybe par with Montana, at least for Brady, but Manning is not that far behind.

You have got to be kidding.

Enough with all the Montana knob-slobbing in here.

Hell, Dan Marino, Warren Moon, Rich Gannon, or Jim Kelly probably all could have done as good of a job as Montana. There are probably at least 10 other precise passers that could have done his job and won rings with that team, that system, at that time in history. The guy was fantastic, no question. But he benefited from a great system and great timing more than any QB ever has. Stick him in today's NFL with a west coast offense, he wouldn't do nearly as much. Back then, the west coast was something no one had really seen. While still effective today, its not nearly as great or beneficial as it was in the 80s.

[mojorizen7]

You are criticizing the wrong thing. Its not the WC that needs to go, its Chad Pennington who can barely stretch the field.

Exactly, put a QB who can make a play downfield at all in there and MIAMI has a legit chance to pull that game out.
CP did make a perfect pass to Ginn who choked but still......
Pennington reminds me of Marc Bulger....a guy who's accurate,can manage a game for you, but can't necessarily make plays with his arm or feet.
MIAMI needs some more team speed and a better QB.

INDY needs to name their next dome after Peyton Manning. The dude was fucking brilliant and said to MIAMI's 45:00 time of possession...well, see my sig below basically.

[slayermin]

No and no.

The only three to consider is Manning, Brady, and Montana. And I think Manning and Brady both surpassed Montana, who benefited greatly from playing in an era where heavy passing had just started to take the league by storm, a system that no one had seen before (west coast offense), and great weapons such as Rice, Taylor, and more. Most teams were still geared to stop the run more than anything. Remember the 85 Bears? Hard-nosed, smash mouth defense, that suffered their only loss to a Dolphins team that utilized a heavy passing, spread attack... something they hadn't seen much of all year.

Manning and Brady both have been able to be successful in multiple systems.

Plus, are you really going to tell me that Brady and Manning couldn't have done what Montana did? Going back and forth between letting Rathman pound the shit out of their opponent, and throwing short, accurate, timed passes to guys like Jerry Rice?

Please. :rolleyes

Dan Marino, Steve Young, and Johnny Unitas are in the argument.

Defenses have evolved but we are talking different eras. QB's are much more protected than in the past. I want a QB that was able to excel when the game was much more violent for his position.

In my humble opinion, the greatest pure passer was Dan Marino. Steve Young was the greatest statistical quarterback ever, and you throw in his running ability and Super Bowl ring, and he deserves much more respect than he gets.

And if you don't know anything about Johnny Unitas and you love football, read a biography about him. To me, I don't know how you can talk about the greatest quarterbacks of all time and not have him in your discussion.

Maybe Brady and Montana could rival Johnny U in clutch situations but they were no way his equal as a football player. You want to talk about a golden arm? Strategist? Toughness? Winner?

[Phillip]

Dan Marino, Steve Young, and Johnny Unitas are in the argument.

Defenses have evolved but we are talking different eras. QB's are much more protected than in the past. I want a QB that was able to excel when the game was much more violent for his position.

In my humble opinion, the greatest pure passer was Dan Marino. Steve Young was the greatest statistical quarterback ever, and you throw in his running ability and Super Bowl ring, and he deserves much more respect than he gets.

And if you don't know anything about Johnny Unitas and you love football, read a biography about him. To me, I don't know how you can talk about the greatest quarterbacks of all time and not have him in your discussion.

Maybe Brady and Montana could rival Johnny U in clutch situations but they were no way his equal as a football player. You want to talk about a golden arm? Strategist? Toughness? Winner?

:flypig

[dirk4mvp]

Nope.
http://www.meetingtent.com/MeruMadeEasy/images/(SC)Joe_Montana_Photo.jpg

opinions, assholes, and such.

[dirk4mvp]

Wayne > Harrison

That's not the point.

[dirk4mvp]

btw, Young isn't even close to guys like Manning and Brady.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Rathman, Rice and Taylor weren't on either the '81 or '84 SB teams.

And if new means a system that the NFL had seen for almost a decade before the 9ers won their 1st SB, then you have a point.

Kenny Anderson ran Walsh's WCO in the mid-70s.

[vander]

Nope.
http://www.meetingtent.com/MeruMadeEasy/images/(SC)Joe_Montana_Photo.jpg

QB's today are better than they were even 10 years ago, the entire game of football is evolving and improving in every area.

Manning > Montana

in today's NFL, Montana would be like Tony Romo

and yeah, I really just said that :hat

[stretch]

That's not the point.

Ward > Wayne

Wayne > Harrison

Ward > Harrison

[stretch]

Rathman, Rice and Taylor weren't on either the '81 or '84 SB teams.

And if new means a system that the NFL had seen for almost a decade before the 9ers won their 1st SB, then you have a point.

Kenny Anderson ran Walsh's WCO in the mid-70s.

The system hadn't been perfected the way it had by time that Montana came around. At first, it was clearly something the league wasn't used to dealing with. Then as the league started to come around a bit more, the 49ers added tools such as Craig, Rice, and Rathman. Come on now.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

You're basically saying that guys like Parcells, Buddy Ryan and Belichik needed 5+ years to figure out how to stop this offense. And that's with game film from Stanford, SD, Cincy and the first two years in SF.

By chance do you think it was perfected in SF because of Joe Montana?

Regardless, the guy was a stone cold killer in those SBs. Accounted for 13 TDs, no turnovers and completed close to 70% of his passes.

Plus, he took KC to the AFCCG with a washed up Allen and guys like JJ Birden and Keith Cash as his WRs. At 37 years old.

As great as Manning is, he has to win another SB to even get in the conversation in my eyes.

Johnny U? Never saw him play so it's tough to gauge.

[stretch]

You're basically saying that guys like Parcells, Buddy Ryan and Belichik needed 5+ years to figure out how to stop this offense. And that's with game film from Stanford, SD, Cincy and the first two years in SF.

And Walsh was also making adjustments as time went on. Fact is, a lot of it was also personnel based. Most teams weren't built to handle such heavy passing offenses.


By chance do you think it was perfected in SF because of Joe Montana?

No question about it. But it was also perfect for him. I don't see him being able to run a complex and complete passing system like Peyton Manning runs, also calling plays and basically running the entire offense by himself.


Regardless, the guy was a stone cold killer in those SBs. Accounted for 13 TDs, no turnovers and completed close to 70% of his passes.

Yeah, he was fantastic.


Plus, he took KC to the AFCCG with a washed up Allen and guys like JJ Birden and Keith Cash as his WRs. At 37 years old.

In a weak AFC.


As great as Manning is, he has to win another SB to even get in the conversation in my eyes.

What more can the guy do? Block for himself, because his offensive line has major holes? Catch his own passes because anyone other than Reggie Wayne suddenly unlearns how to catch passes and run routes? Stop the run on defense? The guy has done everything he could do. Winning SB's is a TEAM accomplishment.


Johnny U? Never saw him play so it's tough to gauge.

Eh, only old fogies that can't accept the fact that predecessors will eventually be surpassed think he's in the discussion.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I have no idea if he could or couldn't run another offense. No one does. They say he was one of the smartest QBs to ever play the game so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt if I was forced to make a decision.

The guy just had an uncanny knack for making the big play in the biggest moments of the biggest games.

He's my clear #1 and Manning #2. I don't see that changing for the time being.

[monosylab1k]

it's just the younger generation doesn't respect the generation previous as much as they should. I personally think 70's football is way overrated, because I grew up watching football in the 80's and 90's. I'm convinced the 90's Cowboys & 80's 49ers would absolutely destroy the 70's Steelers, even though probably nobody who grew up watching 70's football would think that.