Bogans vs Hairston - Tale of the Tape

[ceperez]

Bogans

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Keith-Bogans-1715/

Height Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert Bench Press Lane Agility 3/4 Court Sprint Class Rank
6' 4.25" 6' 5.75" 213 6' 9.25" 8' 5" 8.0 29.5 35.0 10 11.43 3.25 36

Hairston

Height Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert Bench Press Lane Agility 3/4 Court Sprint Class Rank
6' 4.25" 6' 5.25" 204 6' 9" 8' 7.5" 6.9 30.5 38.0 13 11.33 3.08 NA

Summary:

Same height.
Hairston longer with a 2" reach advantage
Hairston higher with a 3" max vertical leap advantage
Hairston stronger with 3 more bench presses
Hairston faster with a quicker 3/4 sprint

So what is it with Bogans that makes him a better player? Is it just 'heart'?

Or could it be because of this:

http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/4145641 ?

I'm beginning to feel like this is a "Jacque Vaughn"-like signing!!!

[Steve-O-Matic]

Tale

[antimvp]

Tale


:lol

Where do people get their education these days?

[I. Hustle]

:lol

Where do people get their education these days?

No tailing

[coyotes_geek]

No tailing

:lol

/thread

[ceperez]

Tale

no telling if tell is any different from tale.

[TIMMYD!]

Joking aside, a trade has to be in the works. The Spurs treat their players better than that. Why would they make Malik the first signing of the summer to fight for a roster spot and then a few months later make it next to impossible for him to make the team. Malik is good enough to contribute to any team and could get some solid off the bench minutes for a bad team.

Something has to be in the works.

It's moments like these when I wish I had direct contact with the FO.:flag:

[exstatic]

no telling if tell is any different from tale.

Except that it is.

Bogans has experience, is a known quantity on defense, and can knock down the three. He's also on a guaranteed contract. I wouldn't put much money on Hairston making the team now. Marcus was smart to pick up those PG skills. They may give him the edge on Hairston.

[BlackBellamy]

You might as well delete this thread. The 'Tell' is far too distracting to the topic. But, if at first you don't succeed...

[exstatic]

Bogans

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Keith-Bogans-1715/

Height Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert Bench Press Lane Agility 3/4 Court Sprint Class Rank
6' 4.25" 6' 5.75" 213 6' 9.25" 8' 5" 8.0 29.5 35.0 10 11.43 3.25 36

Hairston

Height Height w/shoes Weight Wingspan Standing Reach Body Fat No Step Vert Max Vert Bench Press Lane Agility 3/4 Court Sprint Class Rank
6' 4.25" 6' 5.25" 204 6' 9" 8' 7.5" 6.9 30.5 38.0 13 11.33 3.08 NA

Summary:

Same height.
Hairston longer with a 2" reach advantage
Hairston higher with a 3" max vertical leap advantage
Hairston stronger with 3 more bench presses
Hairston faster with a quicker 3/4 sprint

So what is it with Bogans that makes him a better player? Is it just 'heart'?

Or could it be because of this:

http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/4145641 ?

I'm beginning to feel like this is a "Jacque Vaughn"-like signing!!!

I've got two words for you: Mike Mamula.

Dude had the most ridiculous NFL combine, EVER. His numbers were all off the charts. Can't miss, right? Wrong. One of the biggest stiffs in recent NFL draft history. It's not about workouts or times or measurements. It's about being able to play the sport. Bogans has shown he can. Hairston hasn't, at least not yet.

[polandprzem]

It's moments like these when I wish I had direct contact with the FO.:flag:
You think they would tale you ?

[mystargtr34]

If only basketball were about measurements. Patrik O'Bryant would be a beast. Seriously though, its a good comparison - but there are plenty of factors that weigh in favour of Bogans, mainly defending the NBA's best scorer's, and veteran factor which will probably help with calls and leniency from refs...

It would be asking alot of Hairston to be the defensive stopper Pop calls upon when guys like Kobe and Wade are lighting the Spurs up as usual. I dont think he would be the right option for that.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Bogans is what Hairston might become someday. The Spurs are looking to win a championship, not developing players with borderline NBA skills. He might become a good pro, hell, he might even stick with the Spurs if there's a trade coming up, but currently Bogans helps us much more than either Hairston or Williams.

[Blackjack]

Except that it is.

Bogans has experience, is a known quantity on defense, and can knock down the three. He's also on a guaranteed contract. I wouldn't put much money on Hairston making the team now. Marcus was smart to pick up those PG skills. They may give him the edge on Hairston.

I really don't think there's a may about it.

Marcus is an RC pick, who also happens to possess a unique skill set that Bogans' addition does nothing to threaten.

I'd actually be somewhat surprised if Marcus wasn't on the roster for the upcoming year; I just hope that Hairston remains in the Spurs' plans and program.

[xellos88330]

Off seasons scare me!

[ceperez]

Bogans is what Hairston might become someday. The Spurs are looking to win a championship, not developing players with borderline NBA skills. He might become a good pro, hell, he might even stick with the Spurs if there's a trade coming up, but currently Bogans helps us much more than either Hairston or Williams.

Well you are right, if Bogans can hit the three with consistency, then there's no need for another similar player... the verdict then is....

SAYONARA MALIK HAIRSTON!

[Darkwaters]

Measurements are all that matters.

[wildbill2u]

Pop loves vets because they are a known commodity. For an inexperienced player to get any minutes with Pop they have to be really outstanding like TP, not a development project. That's just the way he is and the way he coaches.

[benefactor]

I've got two words for you: Mike Mamula.

Dude had the most ridiculous NFL combine, EVER. His numbers were all off the charts. Can't miss, right? Wrong. One of the biggest stiffs in recent NFL draft history. It's not about workouts or times or measurements. It's about being able to play the sport. Bogans has shown he can. Hairston hasn't, at least not yet.
I didn't think of that exact same player but I had pretty much the same idea when I read the OP.

Bogans is already an NBA player and Hairston is working towards being one. I like Hairston a lot, but with all the money that has been spent this off season I am sure the FO would rather not throw too many chips in at an unproven player. As others have said, there may be more moves brewing. We will know much more after training camp.

[boutons_deux]

Should be a very competitive October.
The scrimmages could be as competitive as the pre-season games.

[HarlemHeat37]

Measurements aren't as important as this thread makes them out to be, but Hairston clearly has better physical tools than Bogans, there's no doubt about that..the only thing Bogans has going for him in this case is experience..that's it..he isn't a better shooter, they both have flaws when it comes to ball-handling and passing..Hairston is a much, much better athlete, and he obviously has less mileage and more hunger at this point..Bogans might be slightly stronger..

Bogans isn't a guy Hairston will be aspiring to become, since Malik should be better than him by the end of this season, at least IMO..

Getting rid of Bogans after acquiring him wouldn't be too difficult, so we'll how what happens in training camp..

[tomtom]

Agreed with most posters. Bogan's has already proven himself in the league especially with his stint in Orlando. He's a good defender and shoot the 3 at a reasonable clip. Hairston has not proved much yet though his potential is there.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think Bogans gets the nod for putting those 1/2 inch insoles in his shoes.

[UnWantedTheory]

The title was great, but I felt the material was lacking. Beep Beep.

[ceperez]

This is all economics.

Bogans gets the minimum salary which apparently is exempt of the luxury tax.

Hairston if signed will be taxed.

Now since Bogans has only a 1 year salary, there's still the possibility of Hairston coming back next year. (That's of course if he sticks it out in the D-league with the Toros).

But it's clear as day, the Spurs get a more experienced player (with less potential) for half price.

[coyotes_geek]

Hairston is signed. His deal is mostly unguaranteed though.

The portion of Bogans salary that the Spurs end up paying does count against the luxury tax.

[Mel_13]

This is all economics.

Bogans gets the minimum salary which apparently is exempt of the luxury tax.

Hairston if signed will be taxed.

Now since Bogans has only a 1 year salary, there's still the possibility of Hairston coming back next year. (That's of course if he sticks it out in the D-league with the Toros).

But it's clear as day, the Spurs get a more experienced player (with less potential) for half price.


Choosing to sign Bogans and eventually cut Hairston will cost about 280K more than just keeping Hairston without signing Bogans. The choice is not about economics.

[ceperez]

Choosing to sign Bogans and eventually cut Hairston will cost about 280K more than just keeping Hairston without signing Bogans. The choice is not about economics.

Let me check here:

Hairston: $736,420 $854,389 $1,091,100
Bogans $1.03m

Now let's treat Hairston salary as being taxed... that makes that $1.47m.
Bogans veteran minimum salary is partially paid by the league, is also not taxed, so Spurs are really on the hook for only $825,497.

In short, that savings of around $400K.

[Mel_13]

Let me check here:

Hairston: $736,420 $854,389 $1,091,100
Bogans $1.03m

Now let's treat Hairston salary as being taxed... that makes that $1.47m.
Bogans veteran minimum salary is partially paid by the league, is also not taxed, so Spurs are really on the hook for only $825,497.

In short, that savings of around $400K.

Read the rules, then post. Your calculations are quite wrong.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#94

[coyotes_geek]

Key point 1: Any player on a league min contract, regardless of years of experience, hits the luxury tax at the value of a 2yr vet min player. This year that is $825,497.

Key point 2: For players with more than 2 years of experience on league min contracts the league will reimburse the team for the amount over that of a 2yr vet min player. In other words, the team ends up only having to pay that player the amount for a 2yr vet min guy.

What Bogans will actually get paid = $1,033,342
Portion of Bogans' salary that the Spurs will end up having to pay = $825,497 (see #2)
Luxury tax hit on Bogans' salary = $825,497 (see #1)

Total amount spent on Bogans = $1,650,994

Hairston's salary (if he were kept on the team the entire season) = $736,420
Luxury tax hit on Hairston's salary = $825,497 (see #1)

Total amount spent on Hairston = $1,561,917

Difference = $89,077

[DPG21920]

Yes, but if Bogans is waived, they will pay Hairston's salary + Bogan's buyout, correct?

[Mel_13]

Yes, but if Bogans is waived, they will pay Hairston's salary + Bogan's buyout, correct?

Yes, and if Hairston is waived they will still have to pay his 50K guarantee and another 50K in tax.

[DPG21920]

Ya, but 100K has got to be much less than Bogan's buyout. But it is still a small amount either way relatively speaking.

[coyotes_geek]

At league minimum I'd doubt there would be any kind of a buyout. Basically the Spurs are going to pay Bogans his full salary, and lux tax on it, whether he's on the team or not.

[Mel_13]

Ya, but 100K has got to be much less than Bogan's buyout. But it is still a small amount either way relatively speaking.

I don't think there's any chance that Bogans is cut to keep Hairston. I think Hairston is going to have to outplay Williams or hope for a trade that opens a slot.

[coyotes_geek]

I don't think there's any chance that Bogans is cut to keep Hairston. I think Hairston is going to have to outplay Williams or hope for a trade that opens a slot.

Agreed.

[mountainballer]

I don't think there's any chance that Bogans is cut to keep Hairston. I think Hairston is going to have to outplay Williams or hope for a trade that opens a slot.

even if he outplayed MW, (who then is the one who's cut), without a trade Hairston will be just the #6 in the wing rotation. this means (barring injuries) d-league or DNPs. a trade of Fin would likely move him to #5 and get him some garbage minutes (plus some more in B2B games). he almost needs to pray for a Fin trade.

[HarlemHeat37]

We all need to pray for a Finley trade..

[ceperez]

Read the rules, then post. Your calculations are quite wrong.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#94

Okay, looks like my interpretation of the rules were off. My bad.

So if isn't economics, then for the life of me, I can't figure out why we even bothered with signing Bogans. I guess it's the same logic as the Spurs signing Vaughn... I've never understood it.

[loveforthegame]

We all need to pray for a Finley trade..

I don't think it's going to happen. I think the Spurs hope he plays in Austin another year and sign with the team next summer when more roster spots are available.

[Blackjack]

So if isn't economics, then for the life of me, I can't figure out why we even bothered with signing Bogans. I guess it's the same logic as the Spurs signing Vaughn... I've never understood it.

Because they needed a proven wing-defender on the roster to back-up RJ.

Bogans is taking Udoka's place, while RJ is taking Bowen's. He's not coming in to be a good locker room guy and insurance poilcy as a third point, he fills a need.

Now, I don't like the idea of losing Hairston, especially since the only thing Bogans has on him is his experience and a more prototypical game for the role, but it's understandable that they'd be looking to fill in the roster with proven, known commodities to compliment all the added talent.

I'm guessing that Hill, Mahinmi and Williams will be more than enough talent in the Spurs' eyes to develop over the course of the season and provide them with a possible wildcard or two. Everyone else on the roster they should pretty much know what they have and what they're going to get night-in and night-out.