How has Artest played against Ginobili?

[honestfool84]

I don't remember having seen this topic come up, excuse me if it is has.

How has Ron Artest played against Manu Ginobili, though, in the past?

I can't specifically think of a time when he just took (Manu) out of the game, leaving him completely useless.

I suppose the same question could go for how he's played against Richard Jefferson, too.

Thanks.
:lobt2:

[Amuseddaysleeper]

He did a very commendable job against him in the 2006 playoffs when he was with the Kings. I'm not crazy about an Artest/Ginobili matchup, but then again, a lot has happened to both since 2006

[completely deck]

He did a very commendable job against him in the 2006 playoffs when he was with the Kings. I'm not crazy about an Artest/Ginobili matchup, but then again, a lot has happened to both since 2006

I agree with you. I think that it's a huge mismatch. Advantages at both sides of the court for each player

[Hemotivo]

Artest can defend Manu very well

[ducks]

Artest can defend Manu very well

how
manu is on the bench facebooking

[pjjrfan]

The times that they have faced each other, Manu has struggled. Manu is extremely smart however and if someone is really bodying him or countering him he will find something to create. In the kings playoff round Manu's best game came when Artest got egected for hitting him with an elbow. The rest of the series he struggled and eventually both he and Tony came out limping out of that series. Artest and Miller had a lot to do with the hard play in that series.

[HarlemHeat37]

It'll pretty much come down to officiating..Artest is a pretty useless defender on the perimeter if he isn't allowed making significant contact, so it'll pretty much come down to that..I don't know which way it'll go..David Stern doesn't like him, so he might not get away with it, but he's a Laker now, so he has that going for him in regards to officiating..

it should be interesting..

[Cherry]

how
manu is on the bench facebooking

Oh lala, someone is joining him! :lol

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2166/tonyfb.jpg

[diego]

Unfortunately there's no reason to expect manu to light artest up. But as long as manu and RJ are keeping kobe and artest off of tony parker and stretching the D we should be fine.

[Leetonidas]

Artest will probably be guarding Jefferson anyway.

[honestfool84]

how
manu is on the bench facebooking

i don't know what you like more:
a) beating a dead horse
b) beating off to tony parker

-_-

[Phenomanul]

how
manu is on the bench facebooking

Your act is tiring... grow up.

[baseline bum]

Artest DESTROYED Manu in the 06 playoffs. Manu could not get good shots off and could not drive on him at all. Artest is the only player I have ever seen do that to Manu consistently.

In the 5 games they played (Artest was suspended game 2):

PTS: 11.6
FG: 22/47 (46.8%)
3FG: 2/12 (16.7%)
REB: 5.0
AST: 3.8
TOV: 3.2

In the game Artest didn't play, Manu went off:
32 points, 10/20 FG, 3-8 3FG, 2 REB, 9AST, 0 TOV

[portnoy1]

also he had a terrible game 4. Artest threw his stuff back and Manu was like 1-4fg with 3pts for the game from what I remember. I just remember him sitting on the bench and Tnt's Coach Collins said "what has happened to this guy" referring to Manu. If Kobe Bryant guards Manu the Im cool with that cause Manu if healthy can give Kobe the same amount of problems Kobe gives the spurs.

[HarlemHeat37]

Kobe is allowed, that's true, but Manu hasn't really had any problems torching Kobe in the past, so I don't think that will be a problem..let's just hope Manu will be healthy when it matters, that's the first step here..

[mookie2001]

i don't know what you like more:
a) beating a dead horse
b) beating off to tony parker

-_-talking stuff too soon


you gotta wait til manu has 18 points one time this season in november then you can say haha manus back and i told you so, best euro ever and hes got so much heart, all that bullshit, just wait a month or two

[TDMVPDPOY]

with ron

if you get into his head, he tends to play complacent....

[iggypop123]

will be guarding jefferson. he said artest gave him trouble and if they dont allow physicality thats good for kobe cause he should get calls.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It depends on how much the refs allow Artest to body up on Manu on the perimeter.

[draft87]

I don't think so. Referees repeatedly allow Kobe to play WAY over-aggressive on-ball defense when he feels like it and arm-bar and foul the shit out of people.


First- there's a chance that as of today Kobe is just as good a defender as Artest. We haven't really seen his stuff against us cause he was usually guarding Bowen but he's an excellent all around defender and as you guys have pointed out he's ridiculous when allowed to play like Bowen/Artest.
Whether it's Bryant or Artest on Manu the game won't be easy.

Second-not competely related to this thread but on the topic of Lakers/Spurs matchups.....both teams have new 3s in the lineup....and still questions about rotations but it's a gimme that all players in question will be on the court at same time at some point in the game(4th quarter anyone?)
....
anyway, is it considered fact that for most of the Spurs/Lakers meetings of recent the Bruce Bowen strategy backfired? Bruce was able to put pressure on Kobe but the latter was able to put pressure on the entire Spurs offense by guarding the former, cheating off him, and providing excellent off-the-ball defense(sneaky steals on a posting Duncan, blocks, traps, etc). I think it nullified our defensive-stopper and rendered him an offensive-stopper for his own team.

Regardless of Artest's presence I still think we have a better shot at besting the Lakers. Yes there's a lot of question marks about Duncan's health AND he's gonna be facing Gasol, Bynum, AND Odom BUT he should have a better shot at starting the game off setting the tone of the game testing out the Lakers one-on-one and establish his presence. Most possible lineups for the Spurs have much more potential "firepower(skill set wider than a corner 3)" and should make the 1-3 Lakers play honestly.

Let's just wait and see?

[daslicer]

..David Stern doesn't like him, so he might not get away with it, but he's a Laker now, so he has that going for him in regards to officiating..

it should be interesting..


Thats the most important part which is he wears the purple and piss now which gives him a get out of jail free card with Stern. I suspect he will be able to hold and grab at will without the whistle being blown.

[HarlemHeat37]

Kobe doesn't guard Manu well when he actually has to defend him..I'm not gonna go back to prime Manu, since Manu obviously isn't there anymore, but even during last year's regular season game vs. the Lakers where Manu was healthy, he completely torched both Kobe and Ariza..Ariza is much quicker than Artest, so his defense will be missed against players like Manu and Tony..

Kobe and Artest are both heavily overrated defensively, especially Kobe..making them playing defense obviously helps either way though..

[callo1]

Artest has lost more than a step, and the bottom line is Kobe won't be able to rest on defense anymore. Will be fun to see.

[The_Game]

artest has lost a step at age 29 yet Manu and Duncan havn't lost a step? funny stuff.

[TimDunkem]

artest has lost a step at age 29 yet Manu and Duncan havn't lost a step? funny stuff.

Old news.

[adidas11]

Manu being guarded by Artest is a mismatch. Artest is a small forward, with a power forward physique. In 2006, he physically manhandled Manu with his defensive pressure throughout that series. And he has decent lateral movement to be able to stay with Manu on the perimeter.

An even better question is: Who guards Artest on the defensive end for the Spurs? Artest creates matchup problems with his post game (due to his upper body strength), something that neither Manu of RJ can cope with effectively.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Manu being guarded by Artest is a mismatch. Artest is a small forward, with a power forward physique. In 2006, he physically manhandled Manu with his defensive pressure throughout that series. And he has decent lateral movement to be able to stay with Manu on the perimeter.

An even better question is: Who guards Artest on the defensive end for the Spurs? Artest creates matchup problems with his post game (due to his upper body strength), something that neither Manu of RJ can cope with effectively.

When Artest starts posting up and not chucking threes you let me know. Kobe is going to handle the ball most of the time and with Gasol and Bynum --assuming he stops sucking-- out there he just isnt going to do post up. Hes not exactly nimble slashing to the basket either.

Artest has definitely lost quite a bit of lateral quickness. You can delude yourself all day long if you want to but the truth remains the same. The key to any matchup between him and Manu is how healthy Manu is.

Manu hasnt really played all that much these last two years. He also played extensively for his national team. He hasn't done that this year and with all this considered it bears to reason he will be fine assuming that his foot/ankle is healed.

[The Franchise]

Manu being guarded by Artest is a mismatch. Artest is a small forward, with a power forward physique. In 2006, he physically manhandled Manu with his defensive pressure throughout that series. And he has decent lateral movement to be able to stay with Manu on the perimeter.

An even better question is: Who guards Artest on the defensive end for the Spurs? Artest creates matchup problems with his post game (due to his upper body strength), something that neither Manu of RJ can cope with effectively.

Well to bad it isn't 2006 anymore. Artest hasn't lost a step...he's lost about 3 or 4. He is also about 15 pounds heavier which never helps when you are older. I personally suffered through Brandon Roy looking like MJ because Artest was to slow to stay in front of him. At this point the man is living off past accomplishments. He is not the defender he once was. As far as the offensive mismatches, the man shoots 40% from the floor so I would not worry about those being to much of an issue. If Manu is healthy he will Rape the Artest of today, because he is no longer a lockdown defender. He is now only slightly (very slightly and I think I'm being nice) above average.

[The_Game]

laughable comments

Artest will not shoot 40% in L.A's system....more like 44-45%...being in Laker will only help him.

Artest is still an elite defender has he lost a step? maybe but not by much...he will be defending guys like Lebron, Melo, Pierce the guys that matter. Manu is good but the way he has struggled with injury he won't be that big a threat anymore anyway. Manu is a good all-star level player but he certainly isn't any better than that.

[Ditty]

i rather artest be jacking up 3's in the lakers system but if he trys to post guys up i would love to see blair rape artest in the post

artest played decent on ginobili 4 years ago lol

ginobili will be probably guarded by vujabitch or kobe

ginobili would tire out artest fat ass and burn him at will

[duhoh]

ive watched ron ron all season this past year.

he's still an above average defender, still knows how to guard people extremely well, but with last season, he was trying to score as much as defend with t-mac out.

i'd have to say that battier did more of the dirty work, but crazy pills still took care of business.

if he plays rafer alston-esque, (chucking 3s) we will be in good shape. LA is still the champs, but the watching brooks torch them gives me confidence that Parker is gonna own. But still, on the physical end, they are bigger and faster, with the best 2 guard in the game right now. but they are beatable.

regardless of the results, this coming season is gonna be incredible to watch, that's for sure. here's to hoping that tim and pop gets one for the thumb.

[noob cake]

Manu being guarded by Artest is a mismatch. Artest is a small forward, with a power forward physique. In 2006, he physically manhandled Manu with his defensive pressure throughout that series. And he has decent lateral movement to be able to stay with Manu on the perimeter.

An even better question is: Who guards Artest on the defensive end for the Spurs? Artest creates matchup problems with his post game (due to his upper body strength), something that neither Manu of RJ can cope with effectively.

1) Artest doesn't post up, ever basically
2) I don't know much about Manu's quickness, but Artest can't guard quick SG anymore. Elite shooting guards will burn him.
3) Nevertheless, Artest is still an elite defensive player, who is the best LeBron "stopper" in the game. Having the ability to check LeBron makes him a worthwhile addition to the Lakers even if he does NOTHING else the whole season. Lets face it, Lakers/Spurs are the most likely WCF champion. Nuggets are crazy overrated. Blazers are good but lacks something found in Lakers/Spurs.

Stop worrying about Ginobli. Parker will own the Lakers; only Kobe going off can keep the game tight. If Fisher/whoever can't guard Brooks, try Parker.

[The_Game]

i rather artest be jacking up 3's in the lakers system but if he trys to post guys up i would love to see blair rape artest in the post

artest played decent on ginobili 4 years ago lol

ginobili will be probably guarded by vujabitch or kobe

ginobili would tire out artest fat ass and burn him at will

LMAO Blair? that 2nd round scrub? what a joke

manu will tire out artest? newsflash this isn't 2006...

parker will be a tough cover for L.A but even in 05 parker still only averaged like 20 a game...he will need to go off for 25 at least to beat L.A in a best of 7 series.

[Ditty]

LMAO Blair? that 2nd round scrub? what a joke

manu will tire out artest? newsflash this isn't 2006...

parker will be a tough cover for L.A but even in 05 parker still only averaged like 20 a game...he will need to go off for 25 at least to beat L.A in a best of 7 series.

lol blair is actually better than any second round scrub yall have right now he'll even last more than that overated scrub in bynum

artest fatass wont do any post up crap blair will out muscle artest and make him his bitch this time :lol

ginobili would shit on artest if he dare guards ginobili

parker will have a field day with the lakers knowing that theres a soft center and glass center in the paint with a point guard who should of retired 5 years ago:rollin

[picc84]

Parker never owns the Lakers. We do an decent job containing him.

The spur i'm worried about is Duncan, as it should be. If he's truly back and healthy he will be the largest concern, not Parker.

[picc84]

Also, I have a feeling that like every other player that comes to LA, Artest will all of a sudden break out and message board posters everywhere will be like "where did this come from?", just like what always happens with our acquisitions. It never fails, players are scrubs, Phil, Kobe, and our coaching staff get ahold of them, and all of a sudden they're getting lucrative FA contract offers.

Artest will probably revert back to 2006 form just to piss people off.

[My Fault]

LMAO Blair? that 2nd round scrub? what a joke

manu will tire out artest? newsflash this isn't 2006...

parker will be a tough cover for L.A but even in 05 parker still only averaged like 20 a game...he will need to go off for 25 at least to beat L.A in a best of 7 series.

Come on you know Parker always goes off come playoff time and has taken his game to a different level since 05. Although I agree Blair as a rookie is unlikely to be a factor come playoff time.

[Agloco]

how
manu is on the bench facebooking

.......and you were doing so well. Crawl back under the rock please.

[baseline bum]

Also, I have a feeling that like every other player that comes to LA, Artest will all of a sudden break out and message board posters everywhere will be like "where did this come from?", just like what always happens with our acquisitions. It never fails, players are scrubs, Phil, Kobe, and our coaching staff get ahold of them, and all of a sudden they're getting lucrative FA contract offers.

Artest will probably revert back to 2006 form just to piss people off.

Just like JR Rider?

[ducks]

.......and you were doing so well. Crawl back under the rock please.

I am doing well thank you
fixing computers all day and night :toast

[SpurCharger]

Artest has lost more than a step, and the bottom line is Kobe won't be able to rest on defense anymore. Will be fun to see.

I disagree, Where Has Artest Lost A step??? He played Great In the playoffs last year.... And Kobe Is Gonna Be able to rest Because Artest Will Be Guarding the Best Perimeter Player for the other Team.

[Agloco]

I disagree, Where Has Artest Lost A step??? He played Great In the playoffs last year.... And Kobe Is Gonna Be able to rest Because Artest Will Be Guarding the Best Perimeter Player for the other Team.

You've been watching too many re-runs from 04-06. Manu will eat Artest alive on the offensive end.

[daslicer]

Just like JR Rider?

Also add Dennis Rodman to that list.

[lennyalderette]

artest has lost a step at age 29 yet Manu and Duncan havn't lost a step? funny stuff.
umm sorry bro but stats speak well for duncan, manu and tim use their brain cells, and of course theyre slower but artest doesnt have the smarts to compensate for age lets put all b.s aside here all of a sudden artest goes to l.a and hes a genius give me a brake! on the other hand we might have the perfect match for artest with blair dropping pounds this summer and doesnt appear to be scared of anyone.

[The_Game]

i wish spurs fans would stop mentioning Blair like he could actually bring something

the guy was a 2nd rounder on one of the worse drafts EVER..the guy is a scrub until proven otherwise.



You've been watching too many re-runs from 04-06. Manu will eat Artest alive on the offensive end.

I wish spurs fans would stop overrating Manu....you are acting like he is some unstoppable force..Artest is still an elite defender he will give manu problems. the fact kobe has some help on the permeter is only going to be good for him and L.A.

[Spursmania]

.......and you were doing so well. Crawl back under the rock please.
:lol

[honestfool84]

I wish spurs fans would stop overrating Manu....you are acting like he is some unstoppable force..Artest is still an elite defender he will give manu problems. the fact kobe has some help on the permeter is only going to be good for him and L.A.



you're overrating artest as much as you claim some spurs' fans are overrating manu...so why don't you just STFU?

[Mr.Robinson]

I disagree, Where Has Artest Lost A step??? He played Great In the playoffs last year.... And Kobe Is Gonna Be able to rest Because Artest Will Be Guarding the Best Perimeter Player for the other Team.

Good thing the Spurs have 2 good perimeter players this season.

[The_Game]

you're overrating artest as much as you claim some spurs' fans are overrating manu...so why don't you just STFU?

Artest has always been an elite defender, Manu has never destroyed anybody. He is all-star level player..nothing more. He may have big games against artest but wouldn't do it consistantly.

[21_Blessings]

Artest has lost more than a step, and the bottom line is Kobe won't be able to rest on defense anymore. Will be fun to see.

And the Spurs have absolutely nobody on the roster to guard Kobe. Will be fun to see.

[Chieflion]

i wish spurs fans would stop mentioning Blair like he could actually bring something

the guy was a 2nd rounder on one of the worse drafts EVER..the guy is a scrub until proven otherwise.



I wish spurs fans would stop overrating Manu....you are acting like he is some unstoppable force..Artest is still an elite defender he will give manu problems. the fact kobe has some help on the permeter is only going to be good for him and L.A.
Watch some games. Blair was even top 10 in most of the mock drafts. No one wants him because of his knees, but it is not affecting him. Best rebounding rates this decade in NCAA and rebounding translates the most in the NBA, more efficient than Blake Griffin and people think he is a 2nd round scrub. Carlos Boozer was also a 2nd round scrub once too.

[Lars]

Artest is slow as fuck and was carried last year by Battier. The only exception was Lebron, Artest did a decent job on him.

[Phenomanul]

The loss of Ariza hurts the Lakers chances of containing Parker...

[spurspf]

Artest has always been an elite defender, Manu has never destroyed anybody. He is all-star level player..nothing more. He may have big games against artest but wouldn't do it consistantly.

Seriously, Manu has never destroyed anybody? How about Manu 27 Atlanta 24. Have you seen him in a game against the Suns. How about the Lakers? There is a reason Kobe says his favorite player to watch is Manu.

[picc84]

The loss of Ariza hurts the Lakers chances of containing Parker...

We contained him fine in 2008 with Ariza on the bench in street clothes.

[mingus]

Manu Ginobili will basically murder Artest, or anyone who attempts to guard him. he is one of the most offensively potent, unguardable wings in the league. he and he alone will determine whether he plays great. same with Parker, same with Duncan. the series will come down to whether or not all these guys can stay healthy and play up to or close to their highest potential.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Artest was a beast against SA in the Sacto series in '06. I think he's still a great defender and a great player, and a tough matchup for the Spurs.

It will be interesting to see how he gels in the Lakers' system. If I'm the Lakers, or their opponents, I think you're not as concerned about his skills as much as you're concerned about his mentality. Pop needs to figure out how the Spurs can get into Artest's head in a seven game series as much as determining how to physically match up with him.

All that being said, it seems to me that Manu has played better against Artest the more he's faced him since that Sacto series. Manu is such a smart player at figuring out how to beat a guy that I think he's going to do fine against Artest and the Lakers this year. A healthy Manu will fare much better in that matchup with Artest should they be pitted against each other this year.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

We contained him fine in 2008 with Ariza on the bench in street clothes.

Phil does come up with good game plans to contain Parker. He's probably the most successful coach in the league at doing that. Hopefully our new weapons will help free TP up more this year.

[LakeShow]

We contained him fine in 2008 with Ariza on the bench in street clothes.

and in 04 with No Ariza.

[LakeShow]

Manu Ginobili will basically murder Artest, or anyone who attempts to guard him. he is one of the most offensively potent, unguardable wings in the league. he and he alone will determine whether he plays great. same with Parker, same with Duncan. the series will come down to whether or not all these guys can stay healthy and play up to or close to their highest potential.

Then you WOKE UP! :lol

[My Fault]

umm sorry bro but stats speak well for duncan, manu and tim use their brain cells, and of course theyre slower but artest doesnt have the smarts to compensate for age lets put all b.s aside here all of a sudden artest goes to l.a and hes a genius give me a brake! on the other hand we might have the perfect match for artest with blair dropping pounds this summer and doesnt appear to be scared of anyone.
Blair is a PF not a SF, nor has he shown to be great defender.

[My Fault]

And the Spurs have absolutely nobody on the roster to guard Kobe. Will be fun to see.
Lakers have absolutely nobody on the roster to guard Parker. See how that works?

[The_Game]

Lakers have absolutely nobody on the roster to guard Parker. See how that works?

Difference is Parker can be contained purely because he is good but not a great player..as mentioned Phil has came up with good gameplans to contain parker over the years.

Kobe is a GREAT player who can't be stopped by anybody on the Spurs.

big difference.

[Phenomanul]

and in 04 with No Ariza.

That was before his jumper was money... before his work with Chip... that scheme wouldn't work now... Not that I'd expect you to understand, considering you would even mention 2004 as being relevant to the argument...



We contained him fine in 2008 with Ariza on the bench in street clothes.

Because Ginobili couldn't cut to the basket, or wreak havoc inside... other than Game 3, Ginobili was relegated to being pretty much a three point shooter... for the Lakers that's a much easier defensive game plan to execute than having to worry about two slashers... by the way Parker averaged 19.4 ppg and 5.6 apg against the Lakers in that series shooting 47.7% from the field... (other than the fg%, Parker pretty much got his season averages against the Lakers). That's hardly "contained him fine"....

Two days ago, when they re-aired the Lakers vs. Spurs game where Mason hit the game winning bucket and 1... it was Ginobili who killed the Lakers... Parker was noticeably frustrated by Ariza's length in the 4th Q... and you all don't have anyone else like Ariza anymore; that's all I was saying...

[Agloco]

I wish spurs fans would stop overrating Manu....you are acting like he is some unstoppable force..Artest is still an elite defender he will give manu problems. the fact kobe has some help on the permeter is only going to be good for him and L.A.

Put the crack pipe down for just a minute......

Artest is a good defender and he might be able to contain R Jeff or Mason, but step off of these if you're thinking he's got any chance against Manu iso on the perimeter.

[picc84]

Phil does come up with good game plans to contain Parker. He's probably the most successful coach in the league at doing that. Hopefully our new weapons will help free TP up more this year.

I agree on both. Phil gameplans for Parker excellently, and the new Spurs could possibly free him up. We'll see. Should be fun.

[picc84]

Because Ginobili couldn't cut to the basket, or wreak havoc inside... other than Game 3, Ginobili was relegated to being pretty much a three point shooter... for the Lakers that's a much easier defensive game plan to execute than having to worry about two slashers... by the way Parker averaged 19.4 ppg and 5.6 apg against the Lakers in that series shooting 47.7% from the field... (other than the fg%, Parker pretty much got his season averages against the Lakers). That's hardly "contained him fine"....

He played decently, but he didnt go off and was kept around his season average. Thats what I mean by contain. I dont recall him playing all that well and I distinctly remember several of your fellow spurs fans criticizing his performance.

This isnt to say I think he sucks or that we can shut him down. Just that we can stop him from exploding, regardless of personnel.


Two days ago, when they re-aired the Lakers vs. Spurs game where Mason hit the game winning bucket and 1... it was Ginobili who killed the Lakers... Parker was noticeably frustrated by Ariza's length in the 4th Q... and you all don't have anyone else like Ariza anymore; that's all I was saying...

I hear you. I'd love to have Ariza back. But our ability to contain Parker is not contingent upon him, he only enhances it. As long as Phil is around I trust him to make our defense effective against Tony, as he always has.

[Phenomanul]

We've been handing out ass kickings to Parker and Manu for years. They should worry about us, because this will be the best Laker team they have ever faced.

Like it or not... the Spurs are the only Western Conference team that is championship testested enough, or capable enough, to give the Lakers trouble... you wouldn't be here, on a Spurs forum, if you didn't think that was the case...

[4down]

We've been handing out ass kickings to Parker and Manu for years. They should worry about us, because this will be the best Laker team they have ever faced.

disagree. The best Laker teams those guys faced had shaq, Rob, and a younger derek Fisher. Pau+Bynum < Shaq in his prime. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a bit delusional.

I think this Laker team is great, with lots of matchup problems, but not as great as the three peat lakers.

[rjv]

this laker team has no where near the depth of some of the better ones that they have had in the past.

[Ocotillo]

I don't know why I read this thread, I knew pretty much how it would go.

Laker Fan would be in here saying Artest would eat Manu's lunch, Spurs Fan would be playing the crazy card or Artest has lost a step.

That's why they lace 'em up and play 'em, we'll see........

Also, I am suprised no one has glossed Bynum "Ian" Bynum seeing his injury history.

[bbarry]

Like it or not... the Spurs are the only Western Conference team that is championship testested enough, or capable enough, to give the Lakers trouble... you wouldn't be here, on a Spurs forum, if you didn't think that was the case...

haha yeah. exactly what i was thinking. clearly we are on the laker fan's minds if they've been hanging out around here all summer. no question about it.

[DPG21920]

Artest is still a good defender, but Laker fans thinking he is the same as a few years ago will be sorely mistaken. He has lost quite a bit of his lateral quickness.

[picc84]

this laker team has no where near the depth of some of the better ones that they have had in the past.

Out of curiousity, which teams are you thinking about, and why?

[picc84]

Of course laker fans are concerned about the spurs. I'm concerned about a number of teams. I'm here because unlike the celtics or cavs, I actually like SA. I'd hang out at a magic forum too, their team is cool.

[cd98]

People are relying too heavily on the Sacramento/Spurs 2006 match up to assess Artest's ability to guard Ginoboli. Ginoboli was injured in that series, even missing a game. He played like crap during the entire round one and half of round two (versus the Mavs). Unless Jason Terry became an awesome defender in games 1-3 of 2006 and all of a sudden could guard Ginoboli, health was the main factor. Of course, Artest also was injured in in round 1.

Artest vs. Ginoboli won't be the most important match up when the Lakers play. It will be Duncan (and other bigs) vs. Gasol (and other bigs) and whoever guards Parker vs. whoever guards Kobe. In other words, Defense vs. Defense.

Ginoboli/Artest probably cancel each other out.

[cd98]

By the way, Artest has always been an overrated defender, and Bruce has always been an underrated defender (considering their abilities).

The media gets something in their minds and then can't shake it. For example, how do you explain Nash as a two-time MVP and Stockton never even coming close. The media bought into Artest's physicality as proof of his prowess as a defender. He was never the quick-footed, active player. You can't hold guards in the NBA, so I think his ability to guard Ginoboli will have a lot more to do with team defense then his individual ability.

[mingus]

there's no one that can distress Parker or Manu on the defensive on the L.A. Lakers. both those guys will eat up whoever wants (or needs - no one on that team wants to guard either one of these guys, unless they want to get humiliated) to guard them.

Spurs in 6.:king

[iggypop123]

Artest is still a good defender, but Laker fans thinking he is the same as a few years ago will be sorely mistaken. He has lost quite a bit of his lateral quickness.

if thats what spurs fans think then why all of a sudden ginobli has added steps to his quickness.

[DPG21920]

if thats what spurs fans think then why all of a sudden ginobli has added steps to his quickness.

What does that have to do with the fact Artest is not the same defender anymore? Artest has clearly lost a significant amount of his lateral quickness.

I don't see anyone saying Manu "has added to his quickness".

[honestfool84]

Last time Manu and Artest played in the playoffs Manu had...

10 points on 5-10 shooting
32 points on 10-20 shooting. Artest didn't play
8 points on 3 of 9 shooting
3 points on 1-4 shooting
27 points on 9-14 shooting
10 point on 4-10 shooting

last time was also almost four years ago.

[iggypop123]

What does that have to do with the fact Artest is not the same defender anymore? Artest has clearly lost a significant amount of his lateral quickness.

I don't see anyone saying Manu "has added to his quickness".

if you guys are saying artest has lost a step due to age why has manu not lost several steps due to injury?

[honestfool84]

I think that was the last time Manu was healthy too. Artest won that battle, and his team sucked.

well we'll see this year.

if manu is healthy, and artest is at his best, i think manu wins.


there is definitely a lot of biased crap going on, from both sides. i don't think manu will tear up artest...and i don't think artest is the defender he used to be.

i guess we can only wait and see.

[DPG21920]

if you guys are saying artest has lost a step due to age why has manu not lost several steps due to injury?

Once again, the fact is people are acting like Artest has not lost a step. He has. Manu has been injured and the last time he was healthy he had not lost a step. Ron has been healthy and we know he has. Now that Manu is back we will see where he is at.

[21_Blessings]

well we'll see this year.

if manu is healthy, and artest is at his best, i think manu wins.


there is definitely a lot of biased crap going on, from both sides. i don't think manu will tear up artest...and i don't think artest is the defender he used to be.

.

Artest doesn't have the lateral quickness he used to but he is still a top tier defender in this league. Still defended Lebron James better than anyone else in the league did. What he lost in speed he's gained in muscle and defensive IQ. Maybe he won't be able to chase every quick SG but he excels at defending bigger SFs like Pierce, Melo and Bron.

The scary thing about this Lakers team is they don't even really need Artest's offense. They are going to turn him loose on the defensive end much like the Spurs use to do with Bowen.

So maybe Manu beats Artest off the dribble a few teams. He'll still be running into two, long 7 footers in the paint. A combination of Pau/Bynum, Odom/Pau, Bynum/Odom will be on the floor most of the time. And we haven't talked about Kobe playing the free safety role (which he's great at) since he doesn't have to chase around the other team's best offensive option anymore.

[Man In Black]

Artest doesn't have the lateral quickness he used to but he is still a top tier defender in this league. Still defended Lebron James better than anyone else in the league did. What he lost in speed he's gained in muscle and defensive IQ. Maybe he won't be able to chase every quick SG but he excels at defending bigger SFs like Pierce, Melo and Bron.

And we haven't talked about Kobe playing the free safety role (which he's great at) since he doesn't have to chase around the other team's best offensive option anymore.

I'd like to take this opportunity to tell you that these 2 points in your post are opposed.
On 1 hand, Artest isn't as fast as used to be and that he excels at defending rugged forwards. On the other hand, Kobe doesn't have to chase around the team's best offensive option anymore but what if that option is a quick SG or combo guard like say Brandon Roy? Since Ron can't guard these guys and Kobe is better at playing free safety who guards these types of players? Turnstile Derek Fisher? Maybe Luke Walton? WHO?

[21_Blessings]

On 1 hand, Artest isn't as fast as used to be and that he excels at defending rugged forwards. On the other hand, Kobe doesn't have to chase around the team's best offensive option anymore but what if that option is a quick SG or combo guard like say Brandon Roy? Since Ron can't guard these guys and Kobe is better at playing free safety who guards these types of players? Turnstile Derek Fisher? Maybe Luke Walton? WHO?

Ron can guard players like Brandon Roy. Just not his most effective matchup.

[z0sa]

artest is a question mark til its all said and done. he seems good right now, but who knows what is going on in that dude's head. at any time, including a game 7, he could revert into crazy mode

[cd98]

Artest doesn't have the lateral quickness he used to but he is still a top tier defender in this league. Still defended Lebron James better than anyone else in the league did. What he lost in speed he's gained in muscle and defensive IQ. Maybe he won't be able to chase every quick SG but he excels at defending bigger SFs like Pierce, Melo and Bron.

The scary thing about this Lakers team is they don't even really need Artest's offense. They are going to turn him loose on the defensive end much like the Spurs use to do with Bowen.

So maybe Manu beats Artest off the dribble a few teams. He'll still be running into two, long 7 footers in the paint. A combination of Pau/Bynum, Odom/Pau, Bynum/Odom will be on the floor most of the time. And we haven't talked about Kobe playing the free safety role (which he's great at) since he doesn't have to chase around the other team's best offensive option anymore.

You're omitting that everytime guards got into the paint against the Lakers, it spelled trouble. All their bigs were available against Houston and everytime Aaron Brooks got in the lane, he killed them. And he didn't have Yao or McGrady to pass off to when the bigs rotated. If Parker and Ginoboli get into the paint against the Lakers, it will spell trouble as both are top notch finishers and both Tim Duncan and McDyess can finish. It also opens the floor for the Spurs 3 point shooters.

Lakers biggest defensive weakness was keeping guards out of the lane. That made them vulnerable to Houston. Fortunately for them, every other team they played did not have a speedy point guard (Billups, injured Nelson).

[21_Blessings]

You guys keep using Houston as a example like it means anything. You might as well substitute Houston for Charlotte.

If Yao never went down the Lakers would have ended that series in 5 or 6.