Could be my last day at work. Hopefully the Baby Jesus can hold me down.

[BacktoBasics]

Its taking every ounce of everything I got to hold back. I'm smack dab in the middle of working out a construction loan to build my house otherwise I would have exploded by now. Not really sure if I truly have it in me to keep the demons down. Wasn't planning on quitting this job until I closed or shortly after.

Situation.

Saturday I had a guy come in from Houston to pick up and pay for his nice new pop-up camper. Cash buyer. We had the deal in place for the last two weeks and we were just waiting for it to come in since we were out of stock. These prices are preset and not negotiable like everything else on the lot.

He paid with his credit card. In full about 8k dollars. I didn't charge him an extra 3% for using his card because Texas state law on the Attorney General's website clearly states that its illegal to charge extra for using a credit card. I was just informed that since I didn't charge the 3% back to the customer that it would be deducted in full out of my commission. Basically it cuts my take in half. My response was that had this been a regular item I would have just kicked up the price or charged him a dealer prep or freight to cover the expense but since its a fixed advertised price I had no option.

The Law


Charging Extra For Credit Card Use

In Texas, a business can not penalize you for paying with a credit card. Businesses that add a surcharge to those who pay by credit card might be violating provisions of the Texas Finance Code. However, businesses can discount the regular retail price of an item for consumers who pay cash. If you believe a business is charging extra for credit card purchases, please a file a consumer complaint with our office.



I don't think I should have to cover this expense.

Sincerely,

Boiling Over

[chreph]

The situation sucks, but it is what it is, unfortunately. I don't think the fee is actually 3%, though, but it may be considering the fact that this is a pretty big-ticket item. I know in the restaurant biz, some of them are beginning to charge back the credit card fee for server tips left on a credit card. For example, if a server had $100 in credit card tips at the end of their night, the restaurant would hold back anywhere from 1.9% - 2.1% (depending on their merchant fees contract) from the tips and pay them out $97.90-$98.10 at the end of their night (assuming they had no cash transactions). The credit card companies are really banking on the new way of life (everything is electronic) and it just makes sense to use your card for everything to rack up rewards points rather then hand over your cash. If companies wanted to do themselves a favor, they'd offer a 1% off discount to cash buyers so everyone wins. The business doesn't have to eat 2%+ cost to the credit card companies, the customer who can pay in cash gets the 1% break, and the credit card companies get nothing. It's win-win-win :lol

Sucks that you have to take the $240 hit, though

[PakiDan]

Have you shown that clause to your employer?

[DarkReign]

Lawyer up, cowboy.

[PM5K]

Don't shit your pants over 240.00.

You've never been in that situation before?

[BacktoBasics]

Have you shown that clause to your employer?
Oh yeah. Response "interesting" then silence.

[mrsmaalox]

I can understand not being able to negotiate the purchase price of an item, but why can't you still add a freight or dealer prep charge as long as you don't officially call it a "credit card processing fee"? How has your employer handled this in the past?

[PM5K]

Oh yeah. Response "interesting" then silence.

That would have pissed me off way more than having to pay 240.00

[BacktoBasics]

I can understand not being able to negotiate the purchase price of an item, but why can't you still add a freight or dealer prep charge as long as you don't officially call it a "credit card processing fee"? How has your employer handled this in the past?
Yeah that would have been possible if we hadn't advertised a "drive out" price. Usually one or two trailers and our pop-up see some type of "drive out" advertising through out the year.

[angel_luv]

Sorry to hear about that B2B. You worked hard for that sale and carefully followed the law and deserve your full commission.

I will pray something unexpected and great happens to you that will reimburse you plus some for what you lost. :)

[mrsmaalox]

Yeah that would have been possible if we hadn't advertised a "drive out" price. Usually one or two trailers and our pop-up see some type of "drive out" advertising through out the year.

Well then that has to be a cost your dumbass employer should absorb! He needs to add some "cash only" fine print to his ad.

[Bigzax]

well dude, that really sucks, but at least your out of there soon...you've dealt with all kinds of shit for this long, what's a little bit longer...

don't put yourself in a bind because you work for a money grubbing dumb fuck.

[s0ldEONs0ul]

Fuck 'em.

[phyzik]

Burn the trailers when you leave.

Better yet, let me just drive off the lot with one.

[PM5K]

He needs to add some "cash only" fine print to his ad.

Right on the money, your boss fucked up and he's the one that should be eating it.

[BacktoBasics]

Credit card payments are considered cash.

[Cry Havoc]

Credit card payments are considered cash.

Uh. Wow. lol

That makes no sense at all.

[PM5K]

Sounds like you no more than all of us, and your boss, open your own fucking place.

[BacktoBasics]

Sounds like you no more than all of us, and your boss, open your own fucking place.
Would love to. Got an extra 300-400k I can borrow.

[BacktoBasics]

Uh. Wow. lol

That makes no sense at all.Actually it does. Any form of payment outside of financing is considered cash buying. For years they would just add a credit card fee to all bottom lines to recoup the cost. Then they made it illegal but places still do it.

You won't see it much anymore but gas station used to advertise prices on their big signs just like we see now. You go to the pump and the pump reads the correct price. Then you swipe your card and the price at the pump changes to cover the cost. Their answer to this was once you swiped your card the digitally changed price at the pump would suffice at written notice of the agreed upon price. Some places still do this despite the fact that its illegal. I always look to see if it happens but you just don't see it anymore.

[PM5K]

There has to be a way to get around this right?

[BacktoBasics]

Uh. Wow. lol

That makes no sense at all.To better explain.

Cash vs. other options was originally brought about because a lot of places would handle the financing themselves in house. Which isn't done much these days because most financing is done by a third party.

People asked for "cash" discounts because the place of business received the full amount upfront vs. a payment plan.

So a credit card, bank draft or cold hard cash were all considered cash because it was payment in full upfront.

Since this is an old way of doing business and really isn't applicable anymore you really shouldn't ever ask for a cash discount. Sets you up for a massive fuck job.

[Wild Cobra]

That is fucked.

remember when credit card fees were only 1%? Well, since then, they have more people defaulting. Interest rate increases are going out the window by laws, and now maybe credit card companies are charging the retailers more.

3%... Wow...

Just another reason why I will continue to use cash at restaurants. I never felt it was the employers need to know how well I tip the cute waitresses.

[BacktoBasics]

There has to be a way to get around this right?Doesn't appear so. Like all of my happenings here I simply make copies of everything. Write good notes and one day I'll turn the ship around, bail out and go public or go the police about it.

I have a pretty impressive list of wrong doings and/or illegal, immoral or unethical happens here.

[mrsmaalox]

But if there is actually a clause somewhere that says if you add a fee for credit cards you can be in violation of something, but that you can give a discount for cash purchases, doesn't that imply that in the eyes of the law, that there is a difference in credit card and cash?

[BacktoBasics]

But if there is actually a clause somewhere that says if you add a fee for credit cards you can be in violation of something, but that you can give a discount for cash purchases, doesn't that imply that in the eyes of the law, that there is a difference in credit card and cash?Well the law or common sense for that matter would differentiate a credit card transaction from dollar bills but ultimately it doesn't matter. The law as far as I know doesn't have a clause for charging back the fees from said sales commission. So whether the law differentiates them or not doesn't matter.

My guess is that what he's doing is legal. Shitty but legal.

For the sake of sales talk the word "cash" is considered to be any form of upfront payment where the seller doesn't have to set up a payment plan. Even that's fucked because if I set up financing through say US Bank we get paid in full by them just the same as if someone walked in with a bag of money. (this is why I tell people to not open their mouths when they're paying cash) The only transactions that cost us extra are the credit card ones.

Like everything in this country....the system is broke and retarded.

[PM5K]

Sounds like your boss would have asked you to try to impose the fee and if they balked pull that let me talk to my boss BS and then waive the fee.

Or rather that's what he'll do in the future.

As far as I see it, worst case scenario is you pay 1.5 and he pays the other.

[BacktoBasics]

Sounds like your boss would have asked you to try to impose the fee and if they balked pull that let me talk to my boss BS and then waive the fee.
That has happened before but its rare, very rare. We usually just add it to freight, title and license, road and bridge tax or dealer prep. People are too stupid to know what fees should run what and what fees shouldn't even be on there.

[Goliadnative]

Maybe your boss is trying to get some money back for the tire you traded for the shrimp.

[BacktoBasics]

Maybe your boss is trying to get some money back for the tire you traded for the shrimp.Nice burn.

[manufan10]

(this is why I tell people to not open their mouths when they're paying cash)

Out of curiosity, and me not knowing, why do you tell people this?

[BacktoBasics]

Out of curiosity, and me not knowing, why do you tell people this?Because if you pay cash I can carry a larger margin without worrying about a bank asking for money down to close the gap on the loan advance.

If someone has the time to find it I wrote an entire thread about it here. Much more detailed.

[manufan10]

Because if you pay cash I can carry a larger margin without worrying about a bank asking for money down to close the gap on the loan advance.

If someone has the time to find it I wrote an entire thread about it here. Much more detailed.

:toast

I'll look for it.

[BacktoBasics]

here


The part about not paying cash is the fact that you want your salesperson to think he'll have to overcome securing financing for you. Banks only advance a certain percentage based on dealer invoice. Say 13k on a 10k car. Thats an advance of 3k. But salesguy wants to sell it to you for 15k and you don't have the 2k difference in down payment then the deal is squashed or he'll have to lower his price.

Its highly likely he won't shoot for the homerun unless you're cash buying because no one wants to come down after a deal is done, that leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths. Most people would be "well fuck it why didn't you come down in the first place". If they try and sell you something thats too expense the salesperson is stuck having to ask you for some big money down to close the gap. If you cash buy there is no gap to close all he has to do is get you to make the purchase and if you like what he has he can charge you an arm an leg for it without having to overcome a bank or the worry of a downpayment.

Everyone wants little to no down so a salesperson will write skinny to medium size deals to keep from having issues. Less issues = quicker close.

Thats why they ask you if you have a downpayment. They can bump the price without a bank getting in the way.

mark it

You need financing and you probably need 0 down. Then go from there.

[BacktoBasics]

So as a salesman I ask myself. Why is this person going to buy? Or better yet what will it take for them to buy?

I don't care what anyone says its almost always in this order.

1. Because you have what they want.

2. The price is right

3. The terms work

So if you're paying cash all I really have to do is convince you that I have what you want and you'll buy it. Deal done. Write it up.

Now if you're financing I have to do the above and also make sure that my margin isn't too high otherwise the bank is going to come back and ask that my customer put some money down. Most people don't have or aren't prepared for 3k or more down. So I price it fair upfront to avoid the deal getting squashed in financing.

Never a concern if you're a cash buyer so I can swing for the fences and go from there.

[I. Hustle]

So when I go buy my truck I can call you up and have you go with me?

[Alex Jones]

I thought all this bullshit with people getting fucked was over after OBamma took over?

[BacktoBasics]

So when I go buy my truck I can call you up and have you go with me?Anything to get out of the house.

[nuclearfm]

Its taking every ounce of everything I got to hold back. I'm smack dab in the middle of working out a construction loan to build my house otherwise I would have exploded by now. Not really sure if I truly have it in me to keep the demons down. Wasn't planning on quitting this job until I closed or shortly after.

Situation.

Saturday I had a guy come in from Houston to pick up and pay for his nice new pop-up camper. Cash buyer. We had the deal in place for the last two weeks and we were just waiting for it to come in since we were out of stock. These prices are preset and not negotiable like everything else on the lot.

He paid with his credit card. In full about 8k dollars. I didn't charge him an extra 3% for using his card because Texas state law on the Attorney General's website clearly states that its illegal to charge extra for using a credit card. I was just informed that since I didn't charge the 3% back to the customer that it would be deducted in full out of my commission. Basically it cuts my take in half. My response was that had this been a regular item I would have just kicked up the price or charged him a dealer prep or freight to cover the expense but since its a fixed advertised price I had no option.

The Law



I don't think I should have to cover this expense.

Sincerely,

Boiling Over


You can always decline that form of payment. The only thing you cant decline is cash.

[BacktoBasics]

You can always decline that form of payment. The only thing you cant decline is cash.
I'm not in position to decline anything.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Credit card payments are considered cash.
you have an idiot for an employer if that's what his definition is. anyone who thinks that is. credit card payments aren't cash. that's why it's called credit card payments. my employer rolls into the customers total. you're being hoodwinked.

[BacktoBasics]

you have an idiot for an employer if that's what his definition is. anyone who thinks that is. credit card payments aren't cash. that's why it's called credit card payments. my employer rolls into the customers total. you're being hoodwinked.
My employer isn't the one that considers credit cards to be cash its a universal idea across the board. For the sake of the argument its sales people talk. I know you're too stupid to look around but I explained the thought process in a few posts above.

Cash is anything taken up front as payment in full.

IE credit cards, bank drafts and dollar bills. Yeah bank drafts are financing. We aren't setting it up so its looked upon as cash.

You can't roll the expense in, its illegal. Well you can do it but you're breaking the law.

No surprise to see Viva coming in with some pointless post.

No shit I'm getting fucked.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

My employer isn't the one that considers credit cards to be cash its a universal idea across the board. For the sake of the argument its sales people talk. I know you're too stupid to look around but I explained the thought process in a few posts above.

Cash is anything taken up front as payment in full.

IE credit cards, bank drafts and dollar bills. Yeah bank drafts are financing. We aren't setting it up so its looked upon as cash.

You can't roll the expense in, its illegal. Well you can do it but you're breaking the law.

No surprise to see Viva coming in with some pointless post.

No shit I'm getting fucked.

you're just an idiot. my employer owns 4 warehouses across the country for more than 25 years and we don't get screwed like you're about to be. who's the idiot now?

[BacktoBasics]

you're just an idiot. my employer owns 4 warehouses across the country for more than 25 years and we don't get screwed like you're about to be. who's the idiot now?I don't care what he owns. If he's rolling the credit card fees into his billing he's breaking the law.

The idiot is always you.

[BacktoBasics]

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/credit_cards.shtml

Scroll down to the bottom smart one. I also posted the blurb on the front page of this thread.


Charging Extra For Credit Card Use

In Texas, a business can not penalize you for paying with a credit card. Businesses that add a surcharge to those who pay by credit card might be violating provisions of the Texas Finance Code.

but but but he owns warehouses.

[mrsmaalox]

Hey B2B, just out of curiosity, what kind of financing could you have gotten for this guy? Paying with a credit card (average interest about 15% right?) seems crazy to me---unless he got one of those 12 month no interest type deals.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

The idiot is always you.


you just let me know when you're umemployed e-tough guy. will you do me that favor?

[BacktoBasics]

you just let me know when you're umemployed e-tough guy. will you do me that favor?Sure thing e-know-it-all.

[BacktoBasics]

Hey B2B, just out of curiosity, what kind of financing could you have gotten for this guy? Paying with a credit card (average interest about 15% right?) seems crazy to me---unless he got one of those 12 month no interest type deals.Unless he works with a credit union the best rates on financing under 10k dollars start at around 11%. He said he could have been at 6.49% with his bank but opted for 5.99 on the card. Now whether that's true I don't know. I personally, even with a better rate, wouldn't have put it on the card because of the credit score hit you would take by carrying such a high balance.

Unless he pays it off within a year and doesn't plan on needing his credit to make a major purchase between now and then.

[mrsmaalox]

And Viva's company might be doing it as a freight or prep charge, and not as a credit card fee or they don't advertise a "drive out price" like your stupid ass employer does.

[Wild Cobra]

Hey B2B, just out of curiosity, what kind of financing could you have gotten for this guy? Paying with a credit card (average interest about 15% right?) seems crazy to me---unless he got one of those 12 month no interest type deals.
There are people out there that pay for everything on a card, then pay off the balance every month. He might not be paying any interest.

[mouse]

Being unemployed for the last 10 years I really have no insight or advice on these matters, But I do know when someone should have their own column in the express news newspaper.

[BacktoBasics]

And Viva's company might be doing it as a freight or prep charge, and not as a credit card fee or they don't advertise a "drive out price" like your stupid ass employer does.Yeah they might be. Only he's too stupid to have read through the thread and see why it was that I couldn't get away with the same.

[mrsmaalox]

There are people out there that pay for everything on a card, then pay off the balance every month. He might not be paying any interest.

Well shit, if I had the $8000 cash to pay the credit card balance, I would have just paid for the camper in cash and negotiated a cash discount! :lol

[BacktoBasics]

There are people out there that pay for everything on a card, then pay off the balance every month. He might not be paying any interest.If that's the case then I don't think it was a bad idea but his reason (Lower Card Rate) leads me to think otherwise.

[BacktoBasics]

Well shit, if I had the $8000 cash to pay the credit card balance, I would have just paid for the camper in cash and negotiated a cash discount! :lolI see what you did there and I don't approve.

[baseline bum]

Its taking every ounce of everything I got to hold back. I'm smack dab in the middle of working out a construction loan to build my house otherwise I would have exploded by now. Not really sure if I truly have it in me to keep the demons down. Wasn't planning on quitting this job until I closed or shortly after.

Situation.

Saturday I had a guy come in from Houston to pick up and pay for his nice new pop-up camper. Cash buyer. We had the deal in place for the last two weeks and we were just waiting for it to come in since we were out of stock. These prices are preset and not negotiable like everything else on the lot.

He paid with his credit card. In full about 8k dollars. I didn't charge him an extra 3% for using his card because Texas state law on the Attorney General's website clearly states that its illegal to charge extra for using a credit card. I was just informed that since I didn't charge the 3% back to the customer that it would be deducted in full out of my commission. Basically it cuts my take in half. My response was that had this been a regular item I would have just kicked up the price or charged him a dealer prep or freight to cover the expense but since its a fixed advertised price I had no option.

The Law



I don't think I should have to cover this expense.

Sincerely,

Boiling Over

What a fucked up law. I hate (as a cash buyer for almost everything from my car to my groceries) having to subsidize the people buying on credit and debit. 3 fucking percent is the tribute the credit companies take on our purchases!?! Fuck that shit. I know that cost is being passed directly to me, as every time I go to the grocery store plastic usage is almost fucking universal.

[Crookshanks]

I've done payroll and the Texas Employment law says an employer cannot deduct anything from your check, except for federal and state taxes and health insurance premiums, without having your written consent. Even if an employer knew you had stolen from the company, he couldn't deduct any amount from your check without your permission.

Maybe you should contact the Texas Workforce commission - it sure couldn't hurt.

[BacktoBasics]

I've done payroll and the Texas Employment law says an employer cannot deduct anything from your check, except for federal and state taxes and health insurance premiums, without having your written consent. Even if an employer knew you had stolen from the company, he couldn't deduct any amount from your check without your permission.

Maybe you should contact the Texas Workforce commission - it sure couldn't hurt.Thanks for that bit of info. I'll log it and save it for a later date. I've calmed down enough to just let it go for now. I'm not in the best position to rock the boat since I'm working to get this construction loan going.

[baseline bum]

Maybe your boss is trying to get some money back for the tire you traded for the shrimp.

:lol

[ploto]

Seems the owner loses the difference for taking credit cards.

[BacktoBasics]

Seems the owner loses the difference for taking credit cards.Not sure exactly what you mean but yeah money is still lost regardless of my deduction.

[Bartleby]

3 fucking percent is the tribute the credit companies take on our purchases!?! Fuck that shit. I know that cost is being passed directly to me, as every time I go to the grocery store plastic usage is almost fucking universal.

As a habit, I pretty much pay everything with credit card out of convenience and as a way to rack up FF miles, but when I go to small mom-and-pop stores (like the local butcher) I try to pay cash because I know they're taking a hit.

[CosmicCowboy]

I had one last week that got my attention. It was a normal business to business transaction and I give this business credit because they have always paid their bills on time. The business owed us about $10,000 and the owners wife called and paid off their balance with her personal "rewards" card which whacks us 3% so the bitch cost us $300 so she could get her fucking points. Those points are gonna cost them dearly the next time they need us to do something they can't do.

[byrontx]

From now on the boss needs to hide the charge as a "doc" fee. He is crazy to whack a good salesperson for $240 then tell you have a positive attitude. As someone that directs a salesforce he is not getting much respect from me. What type of work are you going into when the loan is done?

[Wild Cobra]

I've done payroll and the Texas Employment law says an employer cannot deduct anything from your check, except for federal and state taxes and health insurance premiums, without having your written consent. Even if an employer knew you had stolen from the company, he couldn't deduct any amount from your check without your permission.

Maybe you should contact the Texas Workforce commission - it sure couldn't hurt.
This isn't coming out of his check. It's a reduction of what he expected to get in a commission.

[Wild Cobra]

Seems the owner loses the difference for taking credit cards.
Businesses have been paying credit card fees for years. just a nature of the game. In this case, it reduced the profits on the sale.

[Jacob1983]

You should go John Q. on the guy.

[TDMVPDPOY]

could sell him fake insurance on top of it :D

[BacktoBasics]

From now on the boss needs to hide the charge as a "doc" fee. He is crazy to whack a good salesperson for $240 then tell you have a positive attitude. As someone that directs a salesforce he is not getting much respect from me. What type of work are you going into when the loan is done?The law only allows DOC fees to be up to but not exceed 50 dollars. The law is actually written on the contract. Which is required by law.

The wife and I own a cleaning/janitorial company. Planning to get water restoration/flood mitigation equipment along with a carpet cleaning van. Which will require a small loan or possibly a series of small loans. I didn't want to carry the debt until after I closed on the house. Its hard enough to buy.

[mouse]

I'm working to get this construction loan going.

Will you post pics of your project as it comes along?

[BacktoBasics]

Will you post pics of your project as it comes along?Kinda boring and self-indulgent so yeah.