8-4 without TD: Lottery team?

[smeagol]

The Spurs' record without TD is a respectable .667.

In all four losses, the team did not play well. Against Dallas, the Spurs were horrible. The losses against NY and IND were also pretty bad, and against DEN they were outplayed in the 1st Q and played catch up for the rest of the game.

On the W column, there were some noteworthy games: Houston and Seattle come to mind, and the back to back double OT games against LAC and GS, on the road. The list of Ws also included @ home wins against ATL, LAC, LAL and POR.

Some posters, such as the beloved rascal , have said many times that without TD this is a lottery team, .500 at best.

I claim that if TD were to be replaced by a decent big (Chandler or a healthy Curry come to mind), this team, if Manu and TP stay healthy, would still make the playoffs.

The other question is: How many teams can afford to lose their superstar and still be as competitive as the Spurs are? Look at what happened to the Suns earlier in the season when they lost Nash for a couple of games. MIA has lost the last two games without Snaq. The Lakers already suck with Kobe; without him they would be horrible (I know they did not do that bad when Kobewas injured but tey were playing the easy part of their schedule).

[mookie2001]

naturally
the best backcourt in the nba would have to prove it

[ducks]

good post


I think it shows how deep this team is
it does help though the spurs did get big dog

[timvp]

The only problem is that Manu would be on a respirator by December if he tried to carry a team by himself. Duncan makes things a whole lot easier for him.

[T Park]

you mean,

some clowns on a message board who dont know the difference between a grapefruit and a basketball, are wrong?

Nahhhhh.

[BigVee]

The only problem is that Manu would be on a respirator by December if he tried to carry a team by himself. Duncan makes things a whole lot easier for him.

Amen.

[kskonn]

I just had a mental image of Manu walking out with one of those IV machines. Seriously he would have to stop all the extracurricular playing.

[Useruser666]

They should have oxygen masks like the NFL.

[smeagol]

The only problem is that Manu would be on a respirator by December if he tried to carry a team by himself. Duncan makes things a whole lot easier for him.
Did we not learn from the GS game that TP can carry the team too?

Some games it can be Manu, others TP and others the entire team playing well should be enough to make it at least to the first round of the playoffs.

[kskonn]

Did we not learn from the GS game that TP can carry the team too?

Some games it can be Manu, others TP and others the entire team playing well should be enough to make it at least to the first round of the playoffs.


Yea I totally agree, I just thought the vision of Manu coming out of the game and sitting on the bench with an oxygen mask and IV was funny. It could all be breakaway like their unis. they would have an IV boy instead of Ball boy.

[kskonn]

I also think that TP is better at getting easy shots. It seams that all of Manus shots at the rims are hard and physical, tony usually has a clean shot more than he has a physical shot.

[timvp]

Did we not learn from the GS game that TP can carry the team too?

Some games it can be Manu, others TP and others the entire team playing well should be enough to make it at least to the first round of the playoffs.

Yeah but Manu not being able to play back-to-backs would probably hurt the team in the long run.

No?

[smeagol]

Yeah but Manu not being able to play back-to-backs would probably hurt the team in the long run.

No?
I'm convinced that this "not being able to play back-to-backs" is a temporary thing and has to do with the non-stop B-ball he has played for more than 3 years. He could play back-to-backs the last two years, and he could do it at the beginning of the season; he will definetly do it next year again.

[ducks]

timvp you better be carefully
alot of posters here think manu can play 35 + minutes
even with duncan

[whottt]

I think the job Bruce Bowen has done in some of these games is being overlooked...we don't beat the Lakers or Seattle without Bruce taking their best player out of the game completely...probably a couple of the other games as well...


On paper this team doesn't look like a lottery team without Duncan...but the way they played earlier in the season with him out, especially on the road, certainly made it seem like they were.

However the team went from playing way below it's capabilities early, to way beyond them in the last two games...

Still, on the whole, this Spurs team has underachieved all season IMO based on the talent they had on paper....even with Duncan healthy...and they've also been unlucky...

But it's all moot now....the goal is in sight and ultimately that's all that matters.

[smeagol]

timvp you better be carefully
alot of posters here think manu can play 35 + minutes
even with duncan
Are you referring to me, oh feathered one?

[bigzak25]

lets not get carried away. over a full season, this is a .500 team w/o duncan. maybe just above .500.

shitload of heart though.

[ducks]

no
just half of the manu lovers :lol

[LilMissSPURfect]

The other question is: How many teams can afford to lose their superstar and still be as competitive as the Spurs are? Look at what happened to the Suns earlier in the season when they lost Nash for a couple of games. MIA has lost the last two games without Snaq. The Lakers already suck with Kobe; without him they would be horrible (I know they did not do that bad when Kobewas injured but tey were playing the easy part of their schedule).
:lol :lol

[timvp]

I'm convinced that this "not being able to play back-to-backs" is a temporary thing and has to do with the non-stop B-ball he has played for more than 3 years. He could play back-to-backs the last two years, and he could do it at the beginning of the season; he will definetly do it next year again.

Manu's numbers in back-to-back situations have been drastically lower in all three years he's been in the NBA. I just looked it up and it's a huge drop off. I'll post the numbers if you are interested.




P.S.

After a summer off, perhaps he'll be able to handle them next season.

Perhaps.

Believe.

[Phenomanul]

I think we're also overlooking the fact that the mindset the Spurs play with when Duncan is not on the floor would be different than what they would play with if we had no Duncan at all....

For example, let's imagine that we were like the Knicks.... where:

Marbury = Parker
Crawford <= Manu

The rest of the players are pish posh.... (for the purposes of this example).

Well, talent wise the teams would match up. The problem is that when you know you have a hard season ahead of you... meaning you have to bring it every game in order to win, the team would likely break down and fall short. Like the Knicks' season this year.

The Spurs have put in every inch of effort into producing their wins without Duncan because they know that when their star comes back everything will be much easier again. An 82-game season playing under the former mode would likely reveal that we were merely a .500 team.

A 12 game stint playing without your star would still produce a couple of losses in the transition period (which happened to us) but in order to win consistently or as title contenders, the Spurs would have to play a style of basketball that would wear them down... they wouldn't make the 82-game marathon. The Spurs in this case knew it would only be a temporary thing. They over exerted themselves in order to win and they owed it to Duncan not to let him down.

[TwoHandJam]

I see no reason to believe that Manu wouldn't have more stamina if he took at least one summer off. He has played an incredible amount of basketball in the past 3 years.

Duncan himself has been injured and missed numerous games each season he's played summer ball. Why the double standard?

[ShoogarBear]

I'll post the numbers if you are interested.


Duuuh.

What do you think?

[smeagol]

I'll post the numbers if you are interested.
No need.


After a summer off, perhaps he'll be able to handle them next season.

Perhaps.

Believe.

I believe.

[kskonn]

I see no reason to believe that Manu wouldn't have more stamina if he took at least one summer off. He has played an incredible amount of basketball in the past 3 years.

Duncan himself has been injured and missed numerous games each season he's played summer ball. Why the double standard?


When duncan has been healthy he has performed well in Back to Backs when Manu has been healthy he has not performed well in Back to backs. I don't think it is a double standard.


If we said it was cool for tim to sit out because he had injuries but said Manu could not sit out then that would be a double standard.

[ducks]

timpvp is it a worse drop off then with david robinson at the end of his career

[Useruser666]

If the Spurs wouldn't have Duncan, they would be a different team. They would have different plays, and be setup to use the personal they did have to their fullest. It's hard to say where they would be. I believe they would be above .500. Probably better than the Lakers and even make the bottom of the playoffs.

[Phenomanul]

If the Spurs wouldn't have Duncan, they would be a different team. They would have different plays, and be setup to use the personal they did have to their fullest. It's hard to say where they would be. I believe they would be above .500. Probably better than the Lakers and even make the bottom of the playoffs.


It's hard to say... but let's put it this way..

I'm glad we do have Duncan.

[TwoHandJam]

When duncan has been healthy he has performed well in Back to Backs when Manu has been healthy he has not performed well in Back to backs. I don't think it is a double standard.


If we said it was cool for tim to sit out because he had injuries but said Manu could not sit out then that would be a double standard.
Again, Tim has not played basketball in the summer for the past 3 years so it is not a fair comparison. The fact is, every summer Tim has played ball, either something drastic has happened (2000) or he's missed numerous games with injury (this year). Pop even played Tim a career low in minutes this year and he was still injury prone. We should be thankful Manu has been as durable as he has been this year considering his three years of virtually nonstop play.

[ducks]

he was injured prone when he went to the brand of shoes he wears
has nothing to do with the fact he played in the games


he needs to tape his ankles

[TwoHandJam]

he was injured prone when he went to the brand of shoes he wears
has nothing to do with the fact he played in the games


he needs to tape his ankles
That's just pure speculation on your part ducks. You can't possibly prove that. Was it Tim's shoes that blew out his knee in the summer of 2000 as well when he was still with Nike or do you think playing in the men's Olympic qualifier had something to do with it? Please.

There is a high correlation between Tim missing games/being injured and playing in the summer. Just look at his games played in his career stats at NBA.com.

[waly.mg]

And without Manu too in how many?

[SequSpur]

Since the Spurs lost by 40 to Dallas, I would say they are worse than a lottery team.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

he was injured prone when he went to the brand of shoes he wears
has nothing to do with the fact he played in the games


he needs to tape his ankles

Did you see the closeup shot of his ankles last night when he was shooting free throws in the 3rd quarter? They had so much tape that the right one in particular looked like my 90 year old grandma's. I was wondering how he kept the shoe on it was bulging so much.

[smeagol]

Since the Spurs lost by 40 to Dallas, I would say they are worse than a lottery team.
They lost to SEA by 20 pts with Duncan.

Does that mean they are a lottery team with Duncan too?

[SequSpur]

There is a big difference between 20 and 40. Don't they teach Math in Argentina?

[Athenea]

There is a big difference between 20 and 40. Don't they teach Math in Argentina?
:huh
Sequ= PHD in etiquette & protocol :td