Will Pop give up small ball?

[Dex]

Ah, small ball. Whether bred out of a wine-induced fantasy or simply out of necessity, Spurs fans have had to periodically cringe over the past couple years as in the heart of the game, Pop swapped Duncan to center and replaced the four with players who should never be respectfully considered fours...namely, Michael Finley or *gulp* Ime Udoka.

I'm not sure exactly when this experiment was first conducted, or how Pop got the notion that it was a great idea, but for some reason I remember it with mostly bad results. Such as Nowitzki completely ripping apart the smaller wing players, or any tandem of taller guys easily owning the boards.

Granted, it's been a while since the Spurs have had an athletic big man to step in at center. When his other options included bigman bomber Bonner, and Kurt Thomas and Fab Oberto fresh off the Bingo circuit, I guess Pop decided he'd rather go with talent and experience over size. Unfortunately, players like Finley were no longer fast or athletic enough to exploit the size mismatch, but they were still small enough to get owned by it.

Now, the Spurs have re-hauled their big man lineup. Instead of Kurt Thomas, Fabricio Oberto, and Drew Gooden, they've got Antonio McDyess, DeJuan Blair, and Theo Ratliff (plus Bonner and Mahinmi still waiting in the wings). All three of these guys should be able to shore up the rebounding front and give the coach viable options at the four and five. However, none of them are particularly agile or athletic, and could struggle in the same aspects the last candidates did.

Do you think Pop will go back to his small ball ways (perhaps a new and improved small ball lineup of Parker/Mason/Ginobili/Jefferson/Duncan?) or will the upgrades in the front line allow him to leave that card up his sleeve?

[coyotes_geek]

No, he won't give it up. Nor should he. The Spurs are one of the better small ball teams in the league.

[SpurNation]

Pop will always have something up his sleeve. Small ball is a viable option against some of the fast paced teams in the league...and has been more effective than not in the past...AE: Suns, Warriors, Hornets and in some cases Lakers.

I wouldn't doubt a combination of Parker, Ginobilli, Jefferson, Hill and Blair or Haislip wouldn't be better than the player options they've had in the past to run such a scheme.

We'll see. It's going to be fun to watch how all this develops.

[Samr]

Personally, I thought that was the reason for bringing in Haislip.

Parker, Manu, Haislip, RJ, and Blair could do some damage on offense. Or for defense, make it Hill, Bogans, Williams/Hairston, RJ, Duncan.

And as far as Blair not being athletic, uh.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSkGqewiSqA

[elbamba]

This team is being assembled to run with different styles of basketball. That is why the Spurs are loading up at the 5 and 3 spots.

[kskonn]

Personally, I thought that was the reason for bringing in Haislip.

Parker, Manu, Haislip, RJ, and Blair could do some damage on offense. Or for defense, make it Hill, Bogans, Williams/Hairston, RJ, Duncan.

And as far as Blair not being athletic, uh.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSkGqewiSqA

Yea I agree, I think we will see it a little more often worth our current roster than in the past. I also think it will be more effective than in the past.

[mookie2001]

No, he won't give it up. Nor should he. The Spurs are one of the better small ball teams in the league.


it makes me sad that youre a spurs fan

[xcoriate]

Duncan
RJ
Manu
Mason/Hill
Parker

Tell me that wont be a lineup we see this season.. I think with RJ @ the 4 it might be a legitimate lineup too depending on matchups. Previously when we have gone small its been Duncan and a bunch of SG's at least RJ is a legitimate 3.

[coyotes_geek]

it makes me sad that youre a spurs fan

PG - Parker/Hill/Williams
SG - Manu/Mason/Bogans
SF - RJ/Finley/Haislip
PF - Duncan/Blair/Bonner
C - McDyess/Ratliff/Mahinmi

[mookie2001]

^^the dude ahead of you said RJs playing power forward asshole

[coyotes_geek]

Interesting. Let me check the depth chart again.

PG - Parker/Hill/Williams
SG - Manu/Mason/Bogans
SF - RJ/Finley/Haislip
PF - Duncan/Blair/Bonner
C - McDyess/Ratliff/Mahinmi

Nope, RJ's a small forward.

[mookie2001]

hes an original member with more posts, his made up lineups are more reliable

[coyotes_geek]

Good for him.

[Dex]

:lol

Don't make me separate you two.

I'm not the one who chose to play Finley at the four: Pop was. Obviously, Jefferson is a small forward, but I would not be surprised to see him having to make the same stretch.

[mookie2001]

we've seen it all, we saw manu hobble around and lose playoff series for, we saw horry be the bigman in small ball, 2006 vs the mavs he caved and his last resort was small ball, nothing pop does would surprise me, the man is arrogant and often puts his ego above the team, yes hes a great coach, but nobody can explain the stupid shit he has done

[coyotes_geek]

:lol

Don't make me separate you two.

I'm not the one who chose to play Finley at the four: Pop was. Obviously, Jefferson is a small forward, but I would not be surprised to see him having to make the same stretch.

I wouldn't either. There are going to be a lot of opportunities for the Spurs to go small and create mistmatches. Fortunately this year the upgrades to the bigs mean that the Spurs won't be stuck having to stick with smallball against better rebounding teams because that's the only lineup that can score enough points to keep up. The Spurs roster this year is much improved because they have more options on what styles they can play. Smallball is still one of them.

[SenorSpur]

I seem to remember the "small-ball" strategy first rearing its head during the ill-fated 2006 WCSF versus the Mavs.

[raspsa]

The Spurs are known for being able to play multiple ways, whether it be a grind-it-out slugfest with the likes of the Pistons or a run-and-gun shootfest vs. the Suns. The game is basketball and you need to have the flexibility to matchup against the different teams and I hink this team now has the talent to do so.

[ajh18]

When the Mavs run out a lineup like this:
Kidd
Terry/Barea
Howard
Marion
Nowitski

I could definitely see us running small ball. For better or worse, Pop likes to match up with the other team's lineups. And the Mavs can field a pretty good one.

[coyotes_geek]

I seem to remember the "small-ball" strategy first rearing its head during the ill-fated 2006 WCSF versus the Mavs.

Didn't work against the mavs in 06, worked just fine against the suns in 07. It all depends on the matchup.

[VivaPopovich]

If Pop ever starts Matt Bonner at PF or play Michael Finley at PF again he really does deserve to get fired.

[portnoy1]

Small ball sucks for the spurs. The spurs can play small ball against a certain group of teams. None of which are contenders though. I'd figure Pop would know that. I;m sure he realizes that to beat the legit teams ( NOT THE SUNS ) he will have to have 2 or more legit bigs. Lakers - Gasol/Bynum/Odom Cavs - Oneal/Varejo/Ilgauskas Celtics - Garnett/Wallace/Perkins. All the good teams have 2 bigs. The only way small ball will work is if haislip pans out. Other than that small ball will mean the usual 1 - getting posted up 2 - the rim not being defended = no rebounds / layups for the other team.

Small ball Lineup

Pg - Parker
Sg - Manu ( could be Hill )
SF - RJ ( could be Manu/Mason there )
PF - Haislip ( he is 6-10 and mobile/Athletic )
C - Duncan ( thats his position anyway )

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

^^ How is this small ball??

[lefty]

Mini-ball !!!!! Do it pop

[portnoy1]

^^ How is this small ball??
Well thats why the 2-3 positions are interchangable with guards. Also when you say small ball I think of it being done cause of the matchup problems the spurs have faced in the past. The Nowitzki/Odom matchup situations. Playing small ball Doesn't have to mean having four 6-5 and under guys on the court it with a 7-0 footer. It could mean having players go a position higher than what their accustomed to. Example Manu playing the 3 or Hill playing the 2 or better yet When Danny Ferry ( height 6-10 ) would start at SF and then play PF next to Tim/David it would not affect the game in a bad way but could still be consider small ball since Ferry's natural position was SF although he was 6-10. Haislip is SF/PF that is 6-10 so he has the height/athleticism/mobility to guard the Odoms in the league at PF and can also give pop an added option to play big ball with him at the SF position.

[xellos88330]

I think the Spurs have another "ameoba" team again this year. Judging by the players it looks like they will be able to match any style of play they come up against.

Season please start already!!!

[Nathan Explosion]

People talk about how small ball didn't work against the Mavs. The Mavs won the series, but the lineup wasn't the disaster everyone is making it out to be.

The small ball lineup was 1 foul away from closing out the Mavs in 7 after being down 3-1. Not a terribly bad "experiment" if you ask me.

However, if the Mavs go small, the Spurs have the athletes now to keep up, especially if Hill and RJ are prominently involved.

Although, I though Haslip was brought in to help combat small ball lineups with size and still maintain some quickness at the 4.

[EricB]

The small ball lineup was 1 foul away from closing out the Mavs in 7 after being down 3-1. Not a terribly bad "experiment" if you ask me.

Pish posh.

[Nathan Explosion]

Pish posh.

I didn't say it was a success. What I was saying was that it wasn't some flame out everyone made it out to be. The Spurs were ahead with 30 some odd seconds to play. They didn't lose in 4 or 5 games.

If you want to talk about this year, then you'd have an argument.

[portnoy1]

The problem in that series was that the spurs usually are dominant in the paint, however the mavs made them adjust to a style of play the spurs weren't use to. I hate losing to the Mavs cause the FO/Pop starts to knee jerk. Instead of Competing with the elite teams they start trying to compete with the Mavs the next season. The small became a big part of our Lineup after that series in 06' verses the Mavs. Parker/Ginobili/Bowen/Duncan/Finley or Udoka at the 4 was the lineup that was seen alot during the next 3 seasons. This year we lose to the Mavs ( SFJosh Howard has a good series ) and go out and spend $14million on a SF - Richard Jefferson when A solid bigman was the real problem in the series. I like RJ but I think we still need a bigman ( a 7footer ) to compete with the Elite teams. Getting RJ didn't gear us up to beat the Lakers. Getting RJ was Manu insurance, that way there is another Perimeter creator/play maker/Defender ( Jury is still out on his defense too ). Outlaw/Marion/G. Wallace would have been good as versatile SF and then Pryzbilla/Camby would have been nice additions for C that defend the paint along with a solid 4 ( Mcdyess ). This small ball nonsense is also the reason why Duncan is called a Center.

[Bruno]

Pop has mainly used small ball not by choice but because "normal ball" didn't work.

[mookie2001]

its still his choice

[SCdac]

I really hope small ball is a thing of the past. Signing guys like Theo Ratliff and Antonio McDyess, I'm hoping, is a sign of that. Looking at any of the recent championship teams, they all had a traditional PF - C kind of lineup up front. Spurs need to regain their identity as a lock down team defensively, and a big part of that is putting a shotblocker next to Tim and not making him the only true big out there. When we had Nazr and Rasho battling each other for starting center all season, was when we had a franchise best 63-19 record. Yeah, they were slow and couldn't keep up with Dirk, but it produced the kind of basketball the Spurs thrive in IMO. Oberto too was a solid 6-10 and didn't lack toughness in the paint.

[cherylsteele]

Didn't work against the mavs in 06, worked just fine against the suns in 07. It all depends on the matchup.
Actually, if not for a Manu brain fart, small ball would have been successful against the Mavs in 2006, the Spurs would have come back after being down 1-3.

[SpursPreacher]

I think small ball is good at times and not good at others.I just hope pop uses good judgement when to pull the trigger on it and when not.

[mookie2001]

small ball is never good

[sabar]

2006.

I blame the Nazr 3-pointer.

[mountainballer]

Interesting. Let me check the depth chart again.

PG - Parker/Hill/Williams
SG - Manu/Mason/Bogans
SF - RJ/Finley/Haislip
PF - Duncan/Blair/Bonner
C - McDyess/Ratliff/Mahinmi

Nope, RJ's a small forward.

:lol damn CG, you are really an asshole to use such a killer argument:lol

[Fabbs]

People talk about how small ball didn't work against the Mavs. The Mavs won the series, but the lineup wasn't the disaster everyone is making it out to be.

The small ball lineup was 1 foul away from closing out the Mavs in 7 after being down 3-1. Not a terribly bad "experiment" if you ask me.
Small Balls is what put us down 3-1. Yes, the Spurs almost came back but why go down 3-1 with a roster that just won the title in 2005. Adjusting to a rookie coach? :rollin Dipstick Pop got owned.

[tp2021]

Small ball will be loads improved, simply by putting RJ in at the 4 instead of Finley/Udoka like in seasons past. Parker/Hill/Manu/RJ/Tim is a great lineup.

[Fabbs]

Pop has mainly used small ball not by choice but because "normal ball" didn't work.
63-19 regular season record, #1 seed.
1-0 vs Sacramento in the playoffs with Man From Nazr getting 25 minutes, going 6-6 with 8 boards (6 offensive) in a 122-88 blowout.
2-0 after we win Gm 2 with Nazy doing 24 min. Granted it was an OT win.:lol
So, 63-19 record #1 seed, 2-0 after two playoff games. How could one think we needed to shrink to small balls?

Artest and Wells get injured so we pull out that series 4-2 even with Mike Finley doing 30+ minutes the last couple games.

At this point in time on to Dallas whereupon Dipstick Popped the arrogant wino decides to go small ball. Basically benches Man From Nazr and Rasho (Rasho wasnt getting many minutes anyways but he was getting minutes as in 9 vs Dallas Gm 1, oh yeah a win) and freakin Mike "Boifriend" Finley. Finley gets huge minutes, including 47 minutes in an OT loss (as Nazr and the talls get a "DNP roaches decision" for 4 straight games and we get our asses run out 4-3 by a rookie coach.

Say what you want about Tall Ball, we won with it. Did not "have" to change.

On to this year, yes Jefferson and Blair is a HUGE upgrade over Boyfriend Finley. If Wino will play him. :depressed