How far we've come

[SpurNation]

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Wild Cobra]

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."
Abraham Lincoln
If only he could see today's liberals. I wonder if he knew he was predicting the destruction of this nation?

[clambake]

....and we must enrich the rich with new riches and tax cuts when their stealing and squandering are revealed....

[ChumpDumper]

That would have been a great post if Lincoln had actually said that.

Attribution fail.

[clambake]

That would have been a great post if Lincoln had actually said that.

Attribution fail.

who said it, booth?

[ChumpDumper]

who said it, booth?
:lol

[baseline bum]

epic fail :lol

[sonic21]

lol

[LnGrrrR]

http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_blog/William.Boetcker.Quote.C3F9

[ChumpDumper]

Damn foreigners.

[clambake]

If only he could see today's liberals. I wonder if he knew he was predicting the destruction of this nation?

:rollin

[ChumpDumper]

A real quote from Lincoln:

The legitimate object of government is to do for the people what needs to be done, but which they can not, by individual effort, do at all, or do so well, for themselves.

Of course that's open to various interpretations from both sides of the political fence, but I guess the important lesson here is to not believe everything you read in a chain email.

[sonic21]

Right propaganda would like us to believe that Lincoln said that.

[SpurNation]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._H._Boetcker
An outspoken political conservative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism), Rev. Boetcker is perhaps best remembered for his authorship of a pamphlet entitled The Ten Cannots. Originally published in 1916, it is often misattributed to Abraham Lincoln (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln). The error apparently stems from a leaflet printed in 1942 by a conservative political organization called the Committee for Constitutional Government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Committee_to_Uphold_Constitutional_Govern ment). The leaflet bore the title "Lincoln on Limitations" and contained some genuine Lincoln quotations on one side and the "Ten Cannots" on the other, with the attributions switched. The mistake of crediting Lincoln for having been the source of "The Ten Cannots" has been repeated many times since, most notably by Ronald Reagan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan) in a speech he gave at the 1992 Republican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Republican_Party) convention in Houston (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston,_Texas)
__________________________________________________ _

Point is...most people are left shaking their heads in agreement that first hear this quote before even knowing who wrote it.

I've seen this happen in person without an attributed author being mentioned. Many shaking their heads in approval being democrat voting people.

I just thought it was amusing myself to see people who were so staunchly party affiliated to shake their head in approval of something said by somebody who held a different party belief.

It gave me hope at that time that people just might put political differences aside.

NAH!!!

[clambake]

A real quote from Lincoln:

The legitimate object of government is to do for the people what needs to be done, but which they can not, by individual effort, do at all, or do so well, for themselves.

Of course that's open to various interpretations from both sides of the political fence, but I guess the important lesson here is to not believe everything you read in a chain email.

:lol

[clambake]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._H._Boetcker
An outspoken political conservative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism), Rev. Boetcker is perhaps best remembered for his authorship of a pamphlet entitled The Ten Cannots. Originally published in 1916, it is often misattributed to Abraham Lincoln (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln). The error apparently stems from a leaflet printed in 1942 by a conservative political organization called the Committee for Constitutional Government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Committee_to_Uphold_Constitutional_Govern ment). The leaflet bore the title "Lincoln on Limitations" and contained some genuine Lincoln quotations on one side and the "Ten Cannots" on the other, with the attributions switched. The mistake of crediting Lincoln for having been the source of "The Ten Cannots" has been repeated many times since, most notably by Ronald Reagan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan) in a speech he gave at the 1992 Republican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Republican_Party) convention in Houston (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston,_Texas)
__________________________________________________ _

Point is...most people are left shaking their heads in agreement that first hear this quote before even knowing who wrote it.

I've seen this happen in person without an attributed author being mentioned. Many shaking their heads in approval being democrat voting people.

I just thought it was amusing myself to see people who were so staunchly party affiliated to shake their head in approval of something said by somebody who held a different party belief.

It gave me hope at that time that people just might put political differences aside.

NAH!!!

64 minute crafted response?

[ChumpDumper]

Point is...most people are left shaking their heads in agreement that first hear this quote before even knowing who wrote it.Point is...you attributed this quote to Lincoln and Lincoln said no such thing.

[LnGrrrR]

I think this one is apropos...



"I believe it is an established maxim in morals that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false, is guilty of falsehood; and the accidental truth of the assertion, does not justify or excuse him."
-- August 11, 1846 - Letter to Allen N. Ford


http://www.topicsites.com/abraham-lincoln/quotes.htm

:lol

[Yonivore]

I think this one is apropos...

http://www.topicsites.com/abraham-lincoln/quotes.htm

:lol
Judgment of the utterer notwithstanding, the accidental truth is no less true.

[LnGrrrR]

What about this quote SpurNation?



I don't believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good. So while we do not propose any war upon capital, we do wish to allow the humblest man an equal chance to get rich with everybody else.
--March 6, 1860 Speech at New Haven, Connecticut


If a politician said that today, what side of the political spectrum would you place him on?

[LnGrrrR]

Judgment of the utterer notwithstanding, the accidental truth is no less true.

Eh, to me it's all sound and fury signifying nothing. Those words SOUND nice to conservatives, of course. But they don't really help determine policy or anything of the sort, in my mind. There's words in that paragraph that are designed to illicit a sort of "Hell yeah!" reaction, but in reality they're strawmen. "Destroying the rich"... "weakening the strong"... "inciting class hatred", etc etc.

[sonic21]

"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice."

Abraham Lincoln



so...how far we've come???

[SpurNation]

LOL.
Point is...the message is powerful enough for people to recognize as truthful from inside themselves regardless of their political affiliation or knowing who the author may or may have not been.

[ChumpDumper]

Judgment of the utterer notwithstanding, the accidental truth is no less true.Lying about who said it is lying.

[Yonivore]

"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice."

Abraham Lincoln



so...how far we've come???

We've come farther in the last fifty than we did in the 100 years preceding the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

[Yonivore]

Lying about who said it is lying.
I get that. My point being it doesn't make what was said any less true.

[ChumpDumper]

I get that. My point being it doesn't make what was said any less true.That's an opinion -- an opinion people from SpurNation to Ronald Reagan lied about whose opinion it was.

[Yonivore]

That's an opinion -- an opinion people from SpurNation to Ronald Reagan lied about whose opinion it was.
Okay.

[SpurNation]

That's an opinion -- an opinion people from SpurNation to Ronald Reagan lied about whose opinion it was.

You are right. But the reprinting of a misquote was not lying on my part.
Lying would emply I knew it was false. That I didn't until you said it was a misquote and I looked into it.

But I have seen people who have heard this before and saw their acknowledgement and agreement to the quote.

So I should not be moved by a quote on the words of the quote if it was misquoted or not attributed properly?

[clambake]

you thought it was something it wasn't.

the purpose fell flat.

[ChumpDumper]

You are right. But the reprinting of a misquote was not lying on my part.
Lying would emply I knew it was false. That I didn't until you said it was a misquote and I looked into it.

But I have seen people who have heard this before and saw their acknowledgement and agreement to the quote.

So I should not be moved by a quote on the words of the quote if it was misquoted or not attributed properly?I am moved by your gullibility. It simply didn't sound like something Lincoln would say, so I verified my suspicions. This isn't the first time conservatives faked an attribution in an attempt to add gravitas to a quote.

Does that mean I know Lincoln better than you?

Probably.

[clambake]

actually....the creation of the thread was for the purpose of attribution.

"...after further review, the call on the field stands."

[SpurNation]

actually....the creation of the thread was for the purpose of attribution.

"...after further review, the call on the field stands."

I'm glad you put it in current official's review of a bad call from a sporting context.

A bad call can still be (and has been) upheld even upon further review.

My post was made because it has been a quote that I have been moved by since first being allowed to vote.

Though it has been a misquote or incorrectly attributed quote (thanks you Chump)...the quote still stands as a base for which I believe.

Just as I believe in this quote...

"Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country"

I wouldn't care if JFK originated that or not...I believe in it.

[NoOptionB]

Every man for himself.

-Tupac Shakur

[clambake]

you should stop going at this.

if this quote had meant so much to you, you would have posted it without attribution.

"....now, leave the field before you are ejected."

[NoOptionB]

SpurNation's Thread is admissible in the Political Forum due to the Good Faith Exception.

[SpurNation]

you should stop going at this.

if this quote had meant so much to you, you would have posted it without attribution.

"....now, leave the field before you are ejected."

I posted it thinking it was a real quote from Lincoln....I've been told as much by much greater people than myself. But I invite your ejection proposal since I know you don't have authority to do so...:lol

[clambake]

"....and your ejection will be followed with a fine and possible suspension from the league. Good day,sir."

[SpurNation]

"....and your ejection will be followed with a fine and possible suspension from the league. Good day,sir."

Great game...look forward to the next.

[PEP]

Opinions are like assholes, yes, you're all assholes.

[DarkReign]

We've come farther in the last fifty than we did in the 100 years preceding the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Very true.

[DarkReign]

Opinions are like assholes, yes, you're all assholes.

Because someone misattributed a quote to a roundly respected President?

[rjv]

this is a great thread. it certainly demonstrates how propaganda can be used.

[DarrinS]

I don't know how quotes like that end up getting attributed to the wrong people, but it happens.


You'd be surprised at some of the things Linoln DID say that aren't that flattering.

[Wild Cobra]

Here is the original Lincoln quote:

Property is the fruit of labor; property is desirable; is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence, is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built.
From The Ten "You Cannots" Abraham Lincoln Did Not Say (http://www.cincinnatiskeptics.org/blurbs/lincoln-cannots.html):
In 1942, a group called the Committee for Constitutional Government gave out a great many leaflets entitled "Lincoln on Limitations" that contained on one side a real Lincoln quote and on the other side the 10 Boetcker statements. Boetcker was credited with his statements on the leaflet, but their proximity in print to one real quote by Lincoln, plus the title of the leaflet, led people to think that Lincoln had said the ten listed statements.http://www.biblemoneymatters.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lincolnquotes1.jpg (http://www.biblemoneymatters.com/2009/03/thoughts-on-prosperity-from-abe-lincoln.html)

[spursncowboys]

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[ChumpDumper]

I disagree with the "Abraham Lincoln" part.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I disagree with the "Abraham Lincoln" part.

that part is an independent thought, completely seperate from the preceeding sentences. completely off topic on my part: abe lincoln.

[spursncowboys]

What about this quote SpurNation?



If a politician said that today, what side of the political spectrum would you place him on?
Sounds like Rush Limbaugh to me.

[hater]

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that."

"Removing Saddam Hussein was the right decision early in my presidency, it is the right decision now, and it will be the right decision ever."

To Pope Benedict
"Thank you, your Holiness. Awesome speech."

"We've got a lot of relations with countries in our neighborhood."

"I've abandoned free market principles to save the free market system."

"I'm telling you there's an enemy that would like to attack America, Americans, again. There just is. That's the reality of the world. And I wish him all the very best."

"In terms of the economy, look, I inherited a recession, I am ending on a recession."

"This is my maiden voyage. My first speech since I was the president of the United States and I couldn't think of a better place to give it than Calgary, Canada."

[spursncowboys]

“We, and all others who believe in freedom as deeply as we do, would rather die on our feet than live on our knees (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/we-and_all_others_who_believe_in_freedom_as/164469.html)” FDR

A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. JFK

What political party does this sound like if this was said nowadays.

[coyotes_geek]

that part is an independent thought, completely seperate from the preceeding sentences. completely off topic on my part: abe lincoln.

The preceding sentences aren't important. All that's important is that by falsely attributing the quote to Abraham Lincoln blue team wins a point in the wingnut pissing contest. :cheer

[rjv]

you know, i have never given too much credence to jacques derrida and the deconstructionalists, but after reading this thread i can see their point about how meaning and truth are lost in language.

[Oh, Gee!!]

you know, i have never given too much credence to jacques derrida and the deconstructionalists, but after reading this thread i can see their point about how meaning and truth are lost in language.

nah, you're just in the throes of an existential crisis

[rjv]

nah, you're just in the throes of an existential crisis

:toast that would explain how i feel so much of a sense of absurdity when reading some of these posts.

[SpurNation]

The preceding sentences aren't important. All that's important is that by falsely attributing the quote to Abraham Lincoln blue team wins a point in the wingnut pissing contest. :cheer

I hold you and your opinions in high regard. Just through reading your posts I would like to immulate your responses in the same manner. I have a long way to go to being able to do that.

But with regards to this post...I couldn't disagree more.

There has already been favorable response to the sentences of the quote by those that would otherwise normally denounce. The focus on "misattribution" is what is being focused on by that same group.

If that is the way humanity exists...is there any wonder world human is F'd up?

I give you this scenario...

Johnny says that Mary said there's a fire in the kitchen. But Billy says no Jane said there's a fire in the kitchen...all dispute and argue about who said there's a fire in the kitchen... in the mean time...the fire rages.

Everybody looses. :depressed

[clambake]

i don't know about johnny and mary or billy and jane.........but if your premise can't stand the heat, you should keep it out of the kitchen.

[ChumpDumper]

What if Abe Lincoln said there was a fire?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Abe Lincoln put an asterisk on the Spurs '99 Championship run

[rjv]

I hold you and your opinions in high regard. Just through reading your posts I would like to immulate your responses in the same manner. I have a long way to go to being able to do that.

But with regards to this post...I couldn't disagree more.

There has already been favorable response to the sentences of the quote by those that would otherwise normally denounce. The focus on "misattribution" is what is being focused on by that same group.

If that is the way humanity exists...is there any wonder world human is F'd up?

I give you this scenario...

Johnny says that Mary said there's a fire in the kitchen. But Billy says no Jane said there's a fire in the kitchen...all dispute and argue about who said there's a fire in the kitchen... in the mean time...the fire rages.

Everybody looses. :depressed

i think this analogy fails. there is nothing for the listener to be gained by who expresses the fact that there is a fire. mary has no more credence than johnny. but if you have the boy who cried wolf yelling fire and honest abe doing the same then honestly one defers to the more credible individual. by attributing the remarks that are the subject of this thread to lincoln one is clearly trying to add something more to the text itself. if the text is so categorically applicable to today's political climate then why would one have to associate it with lincoln at all ?

[101A]

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."
Abraham Lincoln



What would you expect from a Republican?

OF COURSE that's what HE would say! Racist, bigoted, elitist fascist homophobe!!!!!

[101A]

Johnny says that Mary said there's a fire in the kitchen. But Billy says no Jane said there's a fire in the kitchen...all dispute and argue about who said there's a fire in the kitchen... in the mean time...the fire rages.

Everybody looses. :depressed

That's the definition, now, of the function of our two-party system (I've actually read the thread now, not just the OP).

It is working; this thread is a GREAT example; sucks nearly all of us in:

Us vs. Them

Red Vs. Blue

Never mind the guy behind the curtain.....

[DarkReign]

“We, and all others who believe in freedom as deeply as we do, would rather die on our feet than live on our knees (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/we-and_all_others_who_believe_in_freedom_as/164469.html)” FDR

A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. JFK

What political party does this sound like if this was said nowadays.

I understand your question is rhetorical, but I always understood people being proud to be a Democrat in those days.

Neither party has anything to be proud of these days. Well, check that, supporters get awfully excited when they win elections...but thats just about where the party starts and ends.

[ChumpDumper]

What would you expect from a Republican?

OF COURSE that's what HE would say! Racist, bigoted, elitist fascist homophobe!!!!!He didn't say it.


That's the definition, now, of the function of our two-party system (I've actually read the thread now, not just the OP).

It is working; this thread is a GREAT example; sucks nearly all of us in:

Us vs. Them

Red Vs. Blue

Never mind the guy behind the curtain.....The guy behind this particular curtain was not Abe Lincoln.