The Top 10 Power Forwards Of The Last Decade, No Mention Of Duncan

[Duncan2177]

The top 10 power forwards of the last decade

By Kelly Dwyer



OK, we know the first decade of the 21st century doesn't really end until 2011. We think. But we also know there have been 10 full NBA seasons played since the phrase "Y2K" was on all of our lips (1999-2000), and here at Ball Don't Lie we've decided to use this as an offseason excuse to rank some of the best and not-so-brightest of the 10 campaigns in question. The result? Why, top 10 lists!

Bob Pettit more or less created this one.

Big forwards can be rebounding specialists. They can be shot-blockers. They can, and have, been role players. But if you have a starting power forward plugged in to just sop up minutes and get out of the way, then your team is in trouble.

Because this is the position that needs to score. We'd like to see the position player in question do it all — score, rebound, defend, pass — but scoring is of paramount importance, especially while that 7-foot lunkhead you line up with every night is struggling to run and chew gum at the same time.

So, for your consideration, the 10 finest power forwards of the last decade.

10. Karl Malone

Malone only played until 2004, but the (arguable, if Bob Pettit's in the room) greatest power forward ever was pretty damn potent when he did suit up. Averaged in the low 20s per game, about eight and a half boards, four assists, and provided a staunch, ornery, defensive effort.

The Mailman could have easily played on after 2003-04, when he registered a 17.8 PER at age 40 while working in a new offense with the Lakers for the first time in nearly 20 years. But after a campaign that saw him miss 40 games (after missing 10, mostly by suspension, combined games in the 18 seasons previous), a frustrated Malone moved on. To shooting things.

9. Chris Bosh(notes)

This spindly scorer was an immediate hit in Toronto, showcasing a veteran's knack for putting the ball in the hole almost right away. Though Vince Carter(notes) complained that the Raptors could have used a 2003 lottery pick in a trade to secure veteran talent, Raptor fans knew what they had.

19.6 points and nine rebounds a game so far, and he just turned 25 last March.

8. Chris Webber(notes)

Remember, this list isn't a ranking of all-time power forwards, just the ones that played from 1999-00 until last season. And as great as Webber was at his peak, early in the decade, he was more or less done by late 2005-06; he missed most of 2003-04, and was one of the league's worst defenders from 2004 until his final sprint with the Warriors in 2007-08.

At that peak, though, he was masterful. An all-around terror who worked the low and high post to perfection, setting screens, finding cutters, scoring with the hook or jumper ... he was fantastic.

7. Rasheed Wallace(notes)

Wallace looked like a washout last season, and he hasn't really ventured into the post since the first George W. Bush administration, but his sound shooting and defensive aptitude made him a stalwart contributor on several great Trail Blazer and Pistons teams.

He also put those teams in peril with selfish play (under the guise of acting selfless), repeated technical fouls, and a churlish attitude that left him at odds with teammate after teammate in Portland. But you can't deny his on-court accomplishments. Unfortunately.

6. Antawn Jamison(notes)

Jamison gets a lot of stick for the things he doesn't do — move bodies in the paint, grab ferocious rebounds, dominate defensively — but he's so damn good at what he does do that you can't deny him a significant placement on this list.

He can score. About 20 a night. Eight rebounds, rarely turns it over. Very rarely — 1.7 turnovers per game on his career, in almost 37 minutes a contest. And he works defensively, while trying to find the open man. There's a reason the similarly-scoring Zach Randolph(notes) didn't make the top 10, while Jamison is all the way up at number six, and it has to do with the lack of team-killing ideals in areas outside of putting the ball in the hole.

And unlike Wallace and Malone, Jamison is still going strong. And unlike Bosh, he put in a few years of going strong before Chris even made it to the NBA.

5. Elton Brand(notes)

We're fully aware that Brand has missed nearly two full seasons recently, and that he may never return to the form that saw him mentioned as an MVP candidate in 2005-06, but his peaks were just so good that we couldn't drop him any lower.

Even in the face of constant double-teaming while stuck on lousy Bulls or Clippers teams, Brand has still averaged 20 and 10 on his career, with a combined three blocks/steals, and 2.6 assists. And yet, he's unfairly maligned as if it were his fault he tore his Achilles, hired Tim Floyd, or drafted Michael Olowokandi(notes).

4. Shawn Marion(notes)

It's an oft-repeated cliché, but it remains the truth — Shawn Marion rarely, very rarely, has a play called for him.

And yet, in a career that started the season this list began, he's averaged almost 18 points per game. It doesn't end there, as he's grabbed about 10 rebounds, averaged a combined 3.1 blocks/steals, dished two assists, and turned the ball over a miniscule 1.6 times a contest. Alongside fantastic defense, and an ability to spread the floor that helps a team and doesn't always show up in newspaper box scores.

3. Pau Gasol(notes)

This isn't a case of someone just coming into his own, Gasol's per-minute, pace-adjusted stats from last season were about what he was coming through with back in 2004-05. Sure, his defense has markedly improved, to the point of being nearly dominant in the playoffs last spring, but this man has been a beast for years. Great to see the rest of the world catch up.

18.8 points, 8.7 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 2.2 combined blocks/steals, in 35.7 minutes per game. And he's only 28. The guy's presence in your high or low post makes your offense much, much better, even if he isn't scoring or registering an assist. That counts.

2. Dirk Nowitzki(notes)

It would be a pity if Nowitzki ended his career as undervalued, overall, because it's hard to find a greater decade of power forward work in the annals of NBA history.

23.6 points on about 48 percent shooting on the decade, with 8.9 rebounds, a steal, a block, and a shockingly low amount of turnovers. Only about eight and a half percent of the possessions that Nowitzki has used up over the course of the decade have ended in turnovers, a sterling number.

1. Kevin Garnett(notes)

Somehow, Dirk is topped. By a player who still doesn't seem to get the credit he deserves.

Despite the hype, the yelling, the commercials, the fawning on-air tributes from Bill Russell, and (a second time, just to be sure) all the yelling. I still don't think people appreciate how great Kevin Garnett has been, over these years, especially defensively.

That's OK, though. Because, despite all the yelling (have you heard the yelling?), I don't think KG cares much. I don't think he gives a toss where he's ranked, even if he is ranked as the greatest power forward of the last decade.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-top-10-power-forwards-of-the-last-decade;_ylt=AoWrSxXM8ZGp0boz4K7hHgS8vLYF?urn=nba,1 93073

[DisAsTerBot]

wow

[Pero]

Omg

[Pero]

How did she get this job???

[ShoogarBear]

Probably give some stupid answer like "Duncan isn't a power forward".

But Pau Gasol is?

[Pero]

The only reason for this (other than her being a complete moron) I can think of is that she puts him under center.

[bobby4germany]

:pimpslapWTF????
You can NOT leave Tim out of this list! He IS the best PF EVER!
:bang:bang:bang

[WildcardManu]

That's probably it, this is top 10 power forwards right after THE best PF which is Timmy.

[portnoy1]

No big deal. I'm almost sure he'll be mentioned as one of the top 10 centers of the decade. He is a 2time mvp finals winner and a 2time league mvp winner in this decade. Nobody would be stupid/ignorant enough to list Malone/Bosh/Jamison and so on as top 10 especially if they are not accomplished. None of those guys won a ring. Gasol/Garnett just got one, so he will be on the top 10 centers list for sure. No worries.

[The_Game]

maybe she thinks tim is a center

stupid though if not

[JamStone]

I'm pretty sure Kelly Dwyer is a guy.

And, I'm pretty sure if Duncan isn't on the list, Dwyer must consider him a center.

Otherwise, he'll feel really retarded when he realizes he left him off the list.

[coyotes_geek]

One thing to try and make the case that when Oberto or Bonner were starting next to Duncan they were really playing power forward and Duncan was really playing center. But there's no way in hell you can say that about David Robinson and Rasho Nesterovic. Even if you want to disqualify Duncan from the PF spot for the last few years (and I'm not saying you should), there's still no denying that the majority of the past decade Duncan played PF and his body of work during just those years still earns him the #1 spot on this list.

[mardigan]

I think the author is a dude, and if you have seen some of his other lists, this wouldn't surprise you.

[BillMc]

Obviously, the omission of Duncan was done by the author to get people talking about his list and generate interest.

Duncan is a PF, and the greatest of all time at that position. If his argument is that Duncan is really a center, I would counter with this.

When we had David, who was taller and also played the post, obviously he was our center and Tim was the power forward. No "subjectivity" there. During that time Tim won 2 MVPS and a championship (and another in 99 before the decade began.) So even if Kelly believes Tim switched to center "for real" when David retired, I would think a title and 2 MVPS would get him on the decade list at the position.

But its BS by this Kelly fellow, all meant to get us talking about his writing. And of course it is.

[nkdlunch]

:lol

she is getting a lot of shit in the comments. thank God for comments section

Marion and Jamison above Malone????

:lmao

that bitch needs to go back to the kitchen!

[JamStone]

Some, probably most of you Spurs fans, will argue against this opinion, but I think Tim Duncan has been playing center basically his entire career, despite what position he wants to be labeled and what other players he's played with.

Even with David Robinson, D-Rob didn't play like a center. He ran the floor like a guard and in half-court sets, he played more of the (traditionally PF) high post, especially with Duncan. From day 1, Duncan has been the main low post threat on the block. PF or C, he was the pivot on offense. And, even though D-Rob defended centers, Duncan shared in those defensive assignments, maybe not equally, but they were basically interchangeable in how they defended PFs and centers. And Rasho was more of a spot up midrange jumper on offense as well.

Duncan can be called a power forward. It's what he wants. But, for all intents and purposes and how he played, he's pretty much been a center his entire NBA career.

[Nathan Explosion]

Chat going on right now.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/BDL-mini-chat-10-best-big-forwards-of-the-last-?urn=nba,193133#remaining-content

[nkdlunch]

Some, probably most of you Spurs fans, will argue against this opinion, but I think Tim Duncan has been playing center basically his entire career, despite what position he wants to be labeled and what other players he's played with.

Even with David Robinson, D-Rob didn't play like a center. He ran the floor like a guard and in half-court sets, he played more of the (traditionally PF) high post, especially with Duncan. From day 1, Duncan has been the main low post threat on the block. PF or C, he was the pivot on offense. And, even though D-Rob defended centers, Duncan shared in those defensive assignments, maybe not equally, but they were basically interchangeable in how they defended PFs and centers. And Rasho was more of a spot up midrange jumper on offense as well.

Duncan can be called a power forward. It's what he wants. But, for all intents and purposes and how he played, he's pretty much been a center his entire NBA career.

Dirk plays like a SF most of his career, yet he is still made the list and is called a PF. so no

[coyotes_geek]

Some, probably most of you Spurs fans, will argue against this opinion, but I think Tim Duncan has been playing center basically his entire career, despite what position he wants to be labeled and what other players he's played with.

Even with David Robinson, D-Rob didn't play like a center. He ran the floor like a guard and in half-court sets, he played more of the (traditionally PF) high post, especially with Duncan. From day 1, Duncan has been the main low post threat on the block. PF or C, he was the pivot on offense. And, even though D-Rob defended centers, Duncan shared in those defensive assignments, maybe not equally, but they were basically interchangeable in how they defended PFs and centers. And Rasho was more of a spot up midrange jumper on offense as well.

Duncan can be called a power forward. It's what he wants. But, for all intents and purposes and how he played, he's pretty much been a center his entire NBA career.

Vlade Divac spent most of his career in the high post. Yet no one disputes that he was a center.

[Nathan Explosion]

Guy also claimed Shawn Marion was a PF. Just because you play out of position doesn't mean you're a player in that position. Shawn's a SF who had the freakish athleticism to play the 4 decently, that is, until he met a good PF.

Duncan used to destroy Marion in the postseason.

[angelbelow]

this is a horrible list. the fact that duncan is listed at PF should be enough, regardless of how he decides to play.

[Manufan909]

Dirk plays like a SF most of his career, yet he is still made the list and is called a PF. so no

Damn Jamstone, your shit got wrecked. And you had such a strong argument too.:lol Unless you don't believe Dirk is a PF, then we're back to square one.

And I believe if Duncan says he's a PF, he is a goddamn PF. It's not like he's claiming to be a guard or something. He's a b2tb PF, like Parker is a scoring PG. Or like Bonner is a short, weak, 3-ball loving C. Or like Manu, who is a 30+ mpg 6th man. Spurs players just defy labels.
:flag:

[resistanze]

Some, probably most of you Spurs fans, will argue against this opinion, but I think Tim Duncan has been playing center basically his entire career, despite what position he wants to be labeled and what other players he's played with.

Even with David Robinson, D-Rob didn't play like a center. He ran the floor like a guard and in half-court sets, he played more of the (traditionally PF) high post, especially with Duncan. From day 1, Duncan has been the main low post threat on the block. PF or C, he was the pivot on offense. And, even though D-Rob defended centers, Duncan shared in those defensive assignments, maybe not equally, but they were basically interchangeable in how they defended PFs and centers. And Rasho was more of a spot up midrange jumper on offense as well.

Duncan can be called a power forward. It's what he wants. But, for all intents and purposes and how he played, he's pretty much been a center his entire NBA career.

I think an argument can be made for this. However, as ShoogarBear implied, Dwyer contradicts his reasoning by putting Pau Gasol on the list. He was the pivot in Memphis and even on the Lakers. He played center all of his first year with Bynum injured and continued to play more than half of the season at center last year with Bynum either injured/ineffective.

[Nathan Explosion]

KD had to resort to insulting me (I'm Art in the chat) by saying I molested collies because I shoved it in his face that the common perception was that Duncan was a PF, whether he liked it or not.

Did a google search, and had to go to the second page to find a list that didn't have Duncan as #1.

[iggypop123]

duncan is a center. he has played it for the last 6 yrs

[nkdlunch]

duncan is a center. he has played it for the last 6 yrs

so you agree Gasol is a C also and should not be on the list, correct?

[mardigan]

He says he is a power forward, the team says he is a power forward, what do I care if some laker fans want to argue that he is a center?

[Nathan Explosion]

duncan is a center. he has played it for the last 6 yrs

Funny thing is, in the court of popular opinion, one opinion doesn't matter.

No matter what all the naysayers think, Tim Duncan will go down as the greatest PF to ever play the game.

Here's a good idea of what position people think Duncan plays.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS331US331&q=greatest+power+forward+of+all+time&start=0&sa=N

[xellos88330]

wow... talk about a dumb list. no tim. glad the writer was getting hounded in the chat because of it.

[hater]

lakerfan, just because Kobe Bryant also plays the position of Rapist does not take him off the list of Best SG Ever :rolleyes

[rjv]

this hack has a job? even if you grant him the extremely lenient and lame excuse that he regards tim a center how the hell does he list shawn marion and antwan jamison above karl malone ?

hopefully this guy finds his niche as a writer because sports is not for him.

[redzero]

+1,000,000 respect points for Dwyer.

Duncan isn't a Power Forward. Gasol is a Power Forward who is occassionally asked to play Center.

[hater]

+1,000,000 respect points for Dwyer.

Duncan isn't a Power Forward. Gasol is a Power Forward who is occassionally asked to play Center.

check NBA info Pages...
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/pau_gasol/


Duncan listed as Forward

Gasol listed as Forward - Center

not to mention Gasol played mostly center for 7 years of this decade in Memphis

FAIL

:lol

[Nathan Explosion]

+1,000,000 respect points for Dwyer.

Duncan isn't a Power Forward. Gasol is a Power Forward who is occassionally asked to play Center.

Occasionally, or was asked to play center for his entire stay with the Grizz?

The list is lame and the guy knew it. He had to defend an egregious error and caught hell for it. He wanted the chat to be about the list, said so in the beginning, and got hounded about it the whole time.

The fact that he had to resort to insults shows he knew that he was defeated.

[DJB]

No Duncan? Oh, and Marion is a SF not a PF. This list is bogus. I've seen trolls on this forum that make up better lists than this ruhtard.

[hater]

Give him a break, he has a pf that plays like a sg on his team, he doesn't know any better.

:lol so true. David West softest "PF" ever. Hornet fans should not even be allowed to post on the subject

[redzero]

check NBA info Pages...
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/pau_gasol/


Duncan listed as Forward

Gasol listed as Forward - Center

not to mention Gasol played mostly center for 7 years of this decade in Memphis

FAIL

:lol

And? Duncan still plays Center. Oh, I forgot--Matt Bonner was the Center for the Spurs last year. Him and Oberto.

[Nathan Explosion]

And? Duncan still plays Center. Oh, I forgot--Matt Bonner was the Center for the Spurs last year. Him and Oberto.

Still can't combat the issue that Gasol made a PF list even though he's played center most of his career (is even listed as one) while Duncan has been listed as a PF his whole career.

[hater]

And? Duncan still plays Center. Oh, I forgot--Matt Bonner was the Center for the Spurs last year. Him and Oberto.

and? dumbass. how did you come up with Gasol "occasionally" playing Center when it's a fact he mostly did for 7 years. :downspin:

[BlackSwordsMan]

:lmao
''So in what decade would Tim Duncan be considered a top 10 power forward....considering his is the greatest power forward of all time and has played the majority of his career in this decade...''

[2muchDuncan]

Author is getting bashed!!!! I love it!!!

[rjv]

he is getting slammed.

the best point is that david was with tim for 4 seasons and then nazr and rasho were at the center position for the next 3 combined.

[coyotes_geek]

duncan is a center. he has played it for the last 6 yrs

3 years, debateable. 6 years, definitely not. Rasho sure as hell wasn't a power forward.

[Pero]

duncan is a center. he has played it for the last 6 yrs

There was Rasho/Nazr till 2006. And Oberto is IMO more of a center as well. So 6 years is wrong for sure.

[BlackSwordsMan]

I just read all the comments, lol

[redzero]

and? dumbass. how did you come up with Gasol "occasionally" playing Center when it's a fact he mostly did for 7 years. :downspin:

He occassionally plays a Center on the Lakers, but is more of a Power Forward/Center hybrid. Timmy D. is a Center and has played Center for years. Yes, Gasol did play Center in Memphis, but he's a natural Power Forward.

[polandprzem]

I can read intresting things in this thread like that Dave was a guard

[hater]

He occassionally plays a Center on the Lakers, but is more of a Power Forward/Center hybrid. Timmy D. is a Center and has played Center for years. Yes, Gasol did play Center in Memphis, but he's a natural Power Forward.

first you say Gasol in this list is a good pick, yet now you agree that Gasol played C for 7 years this decade... :bang

the list is Top 10 Power Forwards Of The Last Decade

how old are you?

[redzero]

And even if Dwyer thinks Duncan isn't a Power Forward, why so butthurt? He's obviously going to be on the Center list, and nobody's actually belittling his accomplishments.

[galvatron3000]

:rollin
The top 10 power forwards of the last decade

By Kelly Dwyer



OK, we know the first decade of the 21st century doesn't really end until 2011. We think. But we also know there have been 10 full NBA seasons played since the phrase "Y2K" was on all of our lips (1999-2000), and here at Ball Don't Lie we've decided to use this as an offseason excuse to rank some of the best and not-so-brightest of the 10 campaigns in question. The result? Why, top 10 lists!

Bob Pettit more or less created this one.

Big forwards can be rebounding specialists. They can be shot-blockers. They can, and have, been role players. But if you have a starting power forward plugged in to just sop up minutes and get out of the way, then your team is in trouble.

Because this is the position that needs to score. We'd like to see the position player in question do it all — score, rebound, defend, pass — but scoring is of paramount importance, especially while that 7-foot lunkhead you line up with every night is struggling to run and chew gum at the same time.

So, for your consideration, the 10 finest power forwards of the last decade.

10. Karl Malone

Malone only played until 2004, but the (arguable, if Bob Pettit's in the room) greatest power forward ever was pretty damn potent when he did suit up. Averaged in the low 20s per game, about eight and a half boards, four assists, and provided a staunch, ornery, defensive effort.

The Mailman could have easily played on after 2003-04, when he registered a 17.8 PER at age 40 while working in a new offense with the Lakers for the first time in nearly 20 years. But after a campaign that saw him miss 40 games (after missing 10, mostly by suspension, combined games in the 18 seasons previous), a frustrated Malone moved on. To shooting things.

9. Chris Bosh(notes)

This spindly scorer was an immediate hit in Toronto, showcasing a veteran's knack for putting the ball in the hole almost right away. Though Vince Carter(notes) complained that the Raptors could have used a 2003 lottery pick in a trade to secure veteran talent, Raptor fans knew what they had.

19.6 points and nine rebounds a game so far, and he just turned 25 last March.

8. Chris Webber(notes)

Remember, this list isn't a ranking of all-time power forwards, just the ones that played from 1999-00 until last season. And as great as Webber was at his peak, early in the decade, he was more or less done by late 2005-06; he missed most of 2003-04, and was one of the league's worst defenders from 2004 until his final sprint with the Warriors in 2007-08.

At that peak, though, he was masterful. An all-around terror who worked the low and high post to perfection, setting screens, finding cutters, scoring with the hook or jumper ... he was fantastic.

7. Rasheed Wallace(notes)

Wallace looked like a washout last season, and he hasn't really ventured into the post since the first George W. Bush administration, but his sound shooting and defensive aptitude made him a stalwart contributor on several great Trail Blazer and Pistons teams.

He also put those teams in peril with selfish play (under the guise of acting selfless), repeated technical fouls, and a churlish attitude that left him at odds with teammate after teammate in Portland. But you can't deny his on-court accomplishments. Unfortunately.

6. Antawn Jamison(notes)

Jamison gets a lot of stick for the things he doesn't do — move bodies in the paint, grab ferocious rebounds, dominate defensively — but he's so damn good at what he does do that you can't deny him a significant placement on this list.

He can score. About 20 a night. Eight rebounds, rarely turns it over. Very rarely — 1.7 turnovers per game on his career, in almost 37 minutes a contest. And he works defensively, while trying to find the open man. There's a reason the similarly-scoring Zach Randolph(notes) didn't make the top 10, while Jamison is all the way up at number six, and it has to do with the lack of team-killing ideals in areas outside of putting the ball in the hole.

And unlike Wallace and Malone, Jamison is still going strong. And unlike Bosh, he put in a few years of going strong before Chris even made it to the NBA.

5. Elton Brand(notes)

We're fully aware that Brand has missed nearly two full seasons recently, and that he may never return to the form that saw him mentioned as an MVP candidate in 2005-06, but his peaks were just so good that we couldn't drop him any lower.

Even in the face of constant double-teaming while stuck on lousy Bulls or Clippers teams, Brand has still averaged 20 and 10 on his career, with a combined three blocks/steals, and 2.6 assists. And yet, he's unfairly maligned as if it were his fault he tore his Achilles, hired Tim Floyd, or drafted Michael Olowokandi(notes).

4. Shawn Marion(notes)

It's an oft-repeated cliché, but it remains the truth — Shawn Marion rarely, very rarely, has a play called for him.

And yet, in a career that started the season this list began, he's averaged almost 18 points per game. It doesn't end there, as he's grabbed about 10 rebounds, averaged a combined 3.1 blocks/steals, dished two assists, and turned the ball over a miniscule 1.6 times a contest. Alongside fantastic defense, and an ability to spread the floor that helps a team and doesn't always show up in newspaper box scores.

3. Pau Gasol(notes)

This isn't a case of someone just coming into his own, Gasol's per-minute, pace-adjusted stats from last season were about what he was coming through with back in 2004-05. Sure, his defense has markedly improved, to the point of being nearly dominant in the playoffs last spring, but this man has been a beast for years. Great to see the rest of the world catch up.

18.8 points, 8.7 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 2.2 combined blocks/steals, in 35.7 minutes per game. And he's only 28. The guy's presence in your high or low post makes your offense much, much better, even if he isn't scoring or registering an assist. That counts.

2. Dirk Nowitzki(notes)

It would be a pity if Nowitzki ended his career as undervalued, overall, because it's hard to find a greater decade of power forward work in the annals of NBA history.

23.6 points on about 48 percent shooting on the decade, with 8.9 rebounds, a steal, a block, and a shockingly low amount of turnovers. Only about eight and a half percent of the possessions that Nowitzki has used up over the course of the decade have ended in turnovers, a sterling number.

1. Kevin Garnett(notes)

Somehow, Dirk is topped. By a player who still doesn't seem to get the credit he deserves.

Despite the hype, the yelling, the commercials, the fawning on-air tributes from Bill Russell, and (a second time, just to be sure) all the yelling. I still don't think people appreciate how great Kevin Garnett has been, over these years, especially defensively.

That's OK, though. Because, despite all the yelling (have you heard the yelling?), I don't think KG cares much. I don't think he gives a toss where he's ranked, even if he is ranked as the greatest power forward of the last decade.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-top-10-power-forwards-of-the-last-decade;_ylt=AoWrSxXM8ZGp0boz4K7hHgS8vLYF?urn=nba,1 93073

Glad I didn't read this, laughable:rollin

[redzero]

first you say Gasol in this list is a good pick, yet now you agree that Gasol played C for 7 years this decade... :bang

the list is Top 10 Power Forwards Of The Last Decade

how old are you?

Gasol did play Center because he was called upon to do so. Duncan played Power Forward early in his career for the same reason. Gasol is a Power Forward/Center hybrid, who can play either position. On the Lakers, he alternates between roles when Bynum is on and off the court. It's quite simple.

[InK]

Acting like a bunch of whining bitches will, as allways solve an issue. Who gives a flying fuck what some mediocre sportswriter says....

[HarlemHeat37]

I love how we Spurs fans get so angry about where Duncan is listed LOL..

Timmy is past the point of top 10 lists for his position..he's in arguments for the overall greatest 10 players in NBA history..this position by decade shit is irrelevant when it comes to a legend like Duncan..

[Pero]

Acting like a bunch of whining bitches will, as allways solve an issue. Who gives a flying fuck what some mediocre sportswriter says....

Hey, no giving compliments to Kelly in this thread. :ihit

[Pero]

I love how we Spurs fans get so angry about where Duncan is listed LOL..

Timmy is past the point of top 10 lists for his position..he's in arguments for the overall greatest 10 players in NBA history..this position by decade shit is irrelevant when it comes to a legend like Duncan..

:tu

[redzero]

I love how we Spurs fans get so angry about where Duncan is listed LOL..

Timmy is past the point of top 10 lists for his position..he's in arguments for the overall greatest 10 players in NBA history..this position by decade shit is irrelevant when it comes to a legend like Duncan..

Spurs fans have to cling on that "Greatest Power Forward of All Time" label, just like they cling on the "Team of the Decade" label.

[hater]

Gasol did play Center because he was called upon to do so. Duncan played Power Forward early in his career for the same reason. Gasol is a Power Forward/Center hybrid, who can play either position. On the Lakers, he alternates between roles when Bynum is on and off the court. It's quite simple.

well Gasol was called upon to do so for 7 years which means he played C for most of this decade, which means he cannot be named in the top PF of this decade.

thanks for clearing that up

[resistanze]

He occassionally plays a Center on the Lakers, but is more of a Power Forward/Center hybrid. Timmy D. is a Center and has played Center for years. Yes, Gasol did play Center in Memphis, but he's a natural Power Forward.

Gasol played the entire 2007-08 season with the Lakers at center, and more than half of the 2008-09 season. And you admit before that, he played center in Memphis. I know you're trying to get under Spurs fan skin, but your argument is a fail.

[redzero]

Gasol played the entire 2007-08 season with the Lakers at center, and more than half of the 2008-09 season. And you admit before that, he played center in Memphis. I know you're trying to get under Spurs fan skin, but your argument is a fail.

I'm not trying to get under anybody's skin. I'm still baffled by these Spurs fans' hostility towards Duncan being called a Center. They take it as an insult.

[bobby4germany]

The thing is you would at least think they'd spend a line explaining why they left TD off the list at the position he has played a decade of all star games at.

[mardigan]

I'm not trying to get under anybody's skin. I'm still baffled by these Spurs fans' hostility towards Duncan being called a Center. They take it as an insult.

It's not an insult, it's just wrong. People will let you know when your wrong around here.

[hater]

I'm not trying to get under anybody's skin. I'm still baffled by these Spurs fans' hostility towards Duncan being called a Center. They take it as an insult.

yup. you are not getting into anyone's skin. and noone here is pissed at what some dumb reporter thinks.

It's just that the writer's logic, as well as yours is flawed. and we are just pointing that out. carry on.

[tp2021]

WGAF. Tim is one of the greatest ever regardless of position.

[BlackBellamy]

reasons to be "angry" at that list...
It was just to deny Tim his rightful #1 PF status, puts KG at #1, Kelly D. trying to be provocative and failing, TD will be listed behind Shaq (and with the way these lists look prolly plenty of other C.'s) on the Center list, It's a recently popular sentiment putting TD @ C, Gasol places as a PF so it negates the list being comprehensive of the entire last decade, cause he/she had to make a rude baseless comment to a Spurstalker to defend his/her idiotic list... Lots of reasons to shit all over this list. S'kinda redundant though, like shitting on someone else's still steaming shit. Kelly, don't quit yer day job... oh wait...

[Nathan Explosion]

well Gasol was called upon to do so for 7 years which means he played C for most of this decade, which means he cannot be named in the top PF of this decade.

thanks for clearing that up

In another sport, something similar happened, albeit, to a far more significant player.

ARod was going to do down as the greatest shortstop to ever play. That wasn't in doubt. Now it may not happen because he's been playing 3rd base since he joined the Yankees. He may have been brought up as a shortstop, but he's a 3rd baseman by trade. Therefore he cannot be considered the best shortstop.

Pau played center, whether you like it or not. He was listed as a center and played the position. Can't be on a top 10 PF list as a center.

Duncan on the other hand played PF. Guarded Webber, Sheed and KG for most of the decade, all PFs. Duncan is a PF as he is listed.

About the only claim you can have at this point is that Duncan guarded Gasol and he was a center, but the problem is, if Duncan is a center, Gasol is a center.

Kind of defeats your argument.

[manufan10]

This dude has lost his mind, from the chat:


3:33
KDonhoops: Shaq's not a center.

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL @ Spurs fans clinging onto "greatest PF" and "team of the decade"..

what do Hornets fans have to cling onto?.."..."..I can't even think of a joke, that's how bad it is..

[hater]

This dude has lost his mind, from the chat:

saw that. Also in the same chat he said "Who is Timmy?"

:lol

[resistanze]

I'm not trying to get under anybody's skin. I'm still baffled by these Spurs fans' hostility towards Duncan being called a Center. They take it as an insult.

I could care less what he's called. PF or C, WGAF. That's not restricted to Duncan. But you can't put Gasol on that list by that logic, no way to rationalize that.

[BlackBellamy]

Spurs fans have to cling on that "Greatest Power Forward of All Time" label, just like they cling on the "Team of the Decade" label.

Deron Williams at 100% is the best PG in the game.

[Nathan Explosion]

This dude has lost his mind, from the chat:

Shaq's a CENTER according to him. Does that mean that Wilt's a CENTER?

[manufan10]

3:36
[Comment From Art]
Point is, Duncan is a PF whether you want to admit it or not. 3:36
KDonhoops: You molest collies, whether you want to admit it, or not.

[will_spurs]

And even if Dwyer thinks Duncan isn't a Power Forward, why so butthurt? He's obviously going to be on the Center list, and nobody's actually belittling his accomplishments.

Well nobody's belittling his accomplishments, but looking at the lists so far I guess Duncan will be behind Shaq, Yao and Jerome James on the top 10 centers list (because, you know, Jerome grabbed 12 rebounds once in a playoff games and that was enough for Kelly to get a lifetime crush on him).

From a rational point of view if I had to make the same top 10 lists I'd start with center, realize there are only 3 guys in that top 10, and add Duncan to make it at least 4.

[manufan10]

His defense of using Marion:


Marion does the same things a PF typically does. When was the last time you saw Marion break down a defense with a dribble, or run a 1/3 screen and roll?

[Nathan Explosion]

3:36
[Comment From Art]
Point is, Duncan is a PF whether you want to admit it or not. 3:36
KDonhoops: You molest collies, whether you want to admit it, or not.

I was about to nail him on that one before he quit his chat. I was going to basically call him a hack who can objectively defend his position, so he has to resort to insults. In a debate, failure to argue a point is a major concession to the opponent and basically admits defeat.

But the comments section of the column basically argues my point for me. He's absolutely getting killed about his "list".

[manufan10]

He gets off on the wrong foot by putting Jamison and Marion in front of Chris Webber, then he claims TD isn't a PF, but puts Gasol on the list. FAIL.

[TIMMYD!]

He/She must think of him as a center altough why would you do that If HE is called the Best Power Forward of ALL-TIME all the time

[alchemist]

Just enjoy however much time Tim plays because as you can see by Kobe getting the decade award and KG getting the top PF position his legacy is going to be diminished almost completely by the media.

[redzero]

LOL @ Spurs fans clinging onto "greatest PF" and "team of the decade"..

what do Hornets fans have to cling onto?.."..."..I can't even think of a joke, that's how bad it is..

So, Spurs fans don't cling onto those monikers? Are you going to answer the question or resort to ad hominem?


Deron Williams at 100% is the best PG in the game.

Okay, he's still not better than Chris Paul.

[Mal]

lol @ no Duncan
lol @ Brand over Sheed
lol @ Gasol is PF
lol @ Marion over Stoudemire
lol @ no Stoudemire

[spursfan09]

Spurs fans have to cling on that "Greatest Power Forward of All Time" label, just like they cling on the "Team of the Decade" label.

Thats actually something to be proud of dummy. Knowing the greatest PF played for your team is great.

[JR3]

im speachless.

[redzero]

Thats actually something to be proud of dummy. Knowing the greatest PF played for your team is great.

No, it's not great when Spurs fans bitch about Tim Duncan not being listed as number one "something" of all time. Everybody's mad that Duncan's not on the Power Forward list because maybe--just maybe--he might be listed as 2nd best Center.

Oh, the horror.

Dwyer already stated that he thinks Duncan is better than Garnett--the Power Forward of the decade, according to him. There's nothing to be mad about.

[hater]

No, it's not great when Spurs fans bitch about Tim Duncan not being listed as number one "something" of all time. Everybody's mad that Duncan's not on the Power Forward list because maybe--just maybe--he might be listed as 2nd best Center.

Oh, the horror.

Dwyer already stated that he thinks Duncan is better than Garnett--the Power Forward of the decade, according to him. There's nothing to be mad about.

so funny that you stopped talking about Gasol.

again, the logic in that article is flawed.

you still have not answered why Gasol who played 7 years as a C should be in that list before Duncan. you yourself admitted Gasol played C for 7 years of this decade.

[spursfan09]

I think we can all agree that Tim is the best PF ever and of this decade yada yada yada. All this writer really did was make a list that was a slap in the face to Timmy, but in the grand scheme of things who really cares? We know what he is and where he stands at.

[spursfan09]

No, it's not great when Spurs fans bitch about Tim Duncan not being listed as number one "something" of all time. Everybody's mad that Duncan's not on the Power Forward list because maybe--just maybe--he might be listed as 2nd best Center.

Oh, the horror.

Dwyer already stated that he thinks Duncan is better than Garnett--the Power Forward of the decade, according to him. There's nothing to be mad about.

Who said I was mad? I'm referring more to your commment about our clinging on to Timmy being the best PF. It's not clinging on when its true.

[Spurminator]

Manny Ramirez isn't really a left fielder...

[JamStone]

Dirk plays like a SF most of his career, yet he is still made the list and is called a PF. so no


Vlade Divac spent most of his career in the high post. Yet no one disputes that he was a center.


I think an argument can be made for this. However, as ShoogarBear implied, Dwyer contradicts his reasoning by putting Pau Gasol on the list. He was the pivot in Memphis and even on the Lakers. He played center all of his first year with Bynum injured and continued to play more than half of the season at center last year with Bynum either injured/ineffective.

I think Dirk plays like a small forward sometimes on offense, but by in large his game is of a power forward with perimeter skills. Dirk isn't going to defend small forwards. And, Dirk can and does on occasion post up, even though it's more of a midpost or sometimes a high post backdown. I guess it's which position does he fit best as? I would still say PF. Whereas if you ask me what position best describes how Tim Duncan plays, I would say rather certainly that the center position describes his game best.

Vlade Divac did play a lot of high post especially in Sacramento since Chris Webber was very capable in the low post. But, not sure I would say he spent most of his career in the high post. And, he was quite adept at playing in the low post if asked and required. And, once again, it's not just the offensive side of the ball. Divac was not a PF defender. Rarely would he guard PFs and if he did, it wasn't by design. Again, which position suited his game and/or described his game best? I would say center.

With Pau Gasol, I would agree for the most part that he should viewed more as a center than a PF. I wasn't arguing that Dwyer and his article wasn't stupid. I was merely saying that in reality Tim Duncan has always played like a center. I'm not saying he shouldn't be considered a power forward or that he won't be when history remembers him. That's what he wants to be called, so be it. And, if he is going to be viewed as a power forward, then of course he's the best power forward in the history of the game. I'm just saying he really hasn't been a power forward his entire career. Call him a PF for whatever reason you want. But, he really isn't one.

[SpurCharger]

Kelly Dwyer Should be Fired, And Deported To the Middle East And dropped In A Mine Field for not having Tim Duncan on that List

[Agloco]

LOL @ Spurs fans clinging onto "greatest PF" and "team of the decade"..

what do Hornets fans have to cling onto?.."..."..I can't even think of a joke, that's how bad it is..

http://www.dieshellsuit.co.uk/uploads/deeznuts-repyourhood-cd.jpg

[spursfan1000]

Who gives a fuck, he is the best power foward of all time and we all know it.

[samikeyp]

Some, probably most of you Spurs fans, will argue against this opinion, but I think Tim Duncan has been playing center basically his entire career, despite what position he wants to be labeled and what other players he's played with.

Even with David Robinson, D-Rob didn't play like a center. He ran the floor like a guard and in half-court sets, he played more of the (traditionally PF) high post, especially with Duncan. From day 1, Duncan has been the main low post threat on the block. PF or C, he was the pivot on offense. And, even though D-Rob defended centers, Duncan shared in those defensive assignments, maybe not equally, but they were basically interchangeable in how they defended PFs and centers. And Rasho was more of a spot up midrange jumper on offense as well.

Duncan can be called a power forward. It's what he wants. But, for all intents and purposes and how he played, he's pretty much been a center his entire NBA career.


Rarely do I disagree with Jamstone but this is one of those times. Basically you are saying that because Duncan calls himself a PF, he is one even though, in your opinion, he isn't one. Ok but then on the other side, you saying he is a center also doesn't make him one.

[JamStone]

Rarely do I disagree with Jamstone but this is one of those times. Basically you are saying that because Duncan calls himself a PF, he is one even though, in your opinion, he isn't one. Ok but then on the other side, you saying he is a center also doesn't make him one.

I consider Tim Duncan's game one of a center, and even when he was playing alongside David Robinson and Rasho Nesterovic. That's how I personally view his game. And, as I initially said, it's fine if you disagree with that. It's my opinion.

And, yes, I also say if Tim Duncan wants to be considered a power forward, then it's fine. If that's how he wants to be viewed and labeled and remembered, I don't have a problem with it. I don't agree with it, but it is what it is. That's what he wants.

[FromWayDowntown]

Manny Ramirez isn't really a left fielder...

While with the Falcons, Michael Vick wasn't really a quarterback.


I don't really give a damn about the view of Kelly Dwyer or who ends up where on his completely subjective lists. But if your intent is to detract, ever so slightly, from Tim Duncan (and there are those who have that agenda) about the only way to do it is call him a center and argue that he hasn't been "as good" as Shaq.

What's funny about that canard here is that if you're going to argue that Tim playing mostly center over the last few seasons makes him a center for all of the last decade, then don't you have to consider that Tim (by and large) has been a better player/center than Shaq since at least 2005?

[Sense]

Duncan is beyond a PF and a C.

[Dex]

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk155/omgscottlikewoah/kanye.jpg

[macong1989]

What a funnt joke!No TIM?I think she must be drunk!

[crc21209]

WOW. Who gives a fuck about this jackass anyway?

[badfish22]

so you agree Gasol is a C also and should not be on the list, correct?
No because the Spurs start Duncan and Bonner (or now mcdyess) while the Lakers start Pau and Bynum.
Bynum is more of a Center than anyone the spurs have started there in years.
You guys are just too attached to calling Duncan "the best pf ever" :lol

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Kelly Dwyer is a guy, not a Spurs-hater, and usually not a bad writer, although these top 10 lists are not great.

Anyway, he's obviously thinking of Duncan as a C. Duncan was a PF until DRob left, and since then has mostly (although not exclusively) played centre. Let's not get our panties in a twist over nothing.

[HarlemHeat37]

I agree that Tim has been a C for a while, but I also agree with the logic that he should be listed at PF if Gasol is listed at PF..the Lakers start Bynum, but he's missed most of the last 2 years, and Odom-Gasol was the main frontcourt when it mattered..

[DPG21920]

People get too hung up on positions. I agree with Jam on certain points. Who cares what title you give someone, how do they play?

[Nathan Explosion]

No because the Spurs start Duncan and Bonner (or now mcdyess) while the Lakers start Pau and Bynum.
Bynum is more of a Center than anyone the spurs have started there in years.
You guys are just too attached to calling Duncan "the best pf ever" :lol

Gasol started as center for the Grizz while he was there. And he's played more games as the Lakers center than he has as their PF. He hasn't played PF enough to be considered a PF in this decade. Your argument is mute because if Dwyer believes that Duncan is a center, then by his logic Gasol is a center because he started at center for 7 years with the Grizz.


Kelly Dwyer is a guy, not a Spurs-hater, and usually not a bad writer, although these top 10 lists are not great.

Anyway, he's obviously thinking of Duncan as a C. Duncan was a PF until DRob left, and since then has mostly (although not exclusively) played centre. Let's not get our panties in a twist over nothing.

So Rasho and Nazr were PFs then?

[barbacoataco]

After reading most of this thread I would say in the end it doesn't really matter whether a few people want to call Duncan a C even though he has always been listed as a PF. Like several pointed out, Dirk plays like a SF. Gasol is more of a C. In the Spurs system there are usually (hopefully) 2 bigs on the court, and it doesn't really matter whether they are C's or PF's.

But ultimately if a player plays for years and is listed as a certain position, that is there position. What is really the difference between a SG and SF anyway? Often the SF's just exaggerate their height by a couple more inches and claim to be 6'6".

[samikeyp]

When all is said and done, Duncan will be remembered as one of the top 10 best ever...regardless of position.

[ezau]

Holy Mother of God. I'm so pissed right now I'm gonna kick Dwyer's ass if I see him

[carrao45]

wow


Omg


The only reason for this (other than her being a complete moron) I can think of is that she puts him under center.


:pimpslapWTF????
You can NOT leave Tim out of this list! He IS the best PF EVER!
:bang:bang:bang

She is probably categorizing him as a center (wrongly)

[SouthTexasRancher]

Kelly Dwyer is an idiotic, imbecilic, moronic, ignoramus!

[BlackBellamy]

Every point Nathan Explosion made on this thread = win.

[phyzik]

Laker fans and other haters are just clinging on for dear life to discount Ducan and the Spurs greatness even though its a meaningless title. That should tell you something about the haters.

[kobyz]

i think the writer is a Kevin Garnett homer so he try to find a way to put KG first.

[TDMVPDPOY]

either fagot writer is downplaying duncans accomplishments or switching him to C, so he/she can put KG the best pf to play the game....i see it all the time, dont fuck around with mind games...whether duncan is a c or pf, his still in the top10 goat list

[024]

since nazr, rasho, oberto, elson and robinson are all considered traditional centers, duncan is a power forward. the two positions are practically interchangeable. i usually think of the PF as the scoring big man while the center compliments the PF by getting rebounds and putbacks. the only exception to this over the last decade is shaq, yao, and howard. think the mavs, celtics, raptors, lakers, jazz, hornets, and the blazers. all their primary scoring bigmen are power forwards. duncan pretty much does it all on the spurs so he can be PF if he wants to or C if he wants to. it's ridiculous to call him a center when he obviously wants to be called a power forward.

[ambchang]

The title should have been "Top 10 players of the last decade who played PF in his most recent game".

[eisfeld]

Despite Duncan not being on the list, it's horrible. Leaving out Tim and maybe including him in the Center list would be quite ok, but why the hell is Marion on the list then? He's a SF/PF and he ranks above way better players in the past decade.

[elbamba]

What she meant to say is the best PF not named Tim Duncan because we all know his greatness is beyond any arbitrary top ten list.

[manufan10]

Kelly Dwyer is a guy, not a Spurs-hater, and usually not a bad writer, although these top 10 lists are not great.

Anyway, he's obviously thinking of Duncan as a C. Duncan was a PF until DRob left, and since then has mostly (although not exclusively) played centre. Let's not get our panties in a twist over nothing.

Duncan was a PF until the 2007 season, and even that is debatable. 2007-2008, 2008-2009 seasons I'll agree that he played center.

1999-2003 Robinson C, Duncan PF.
2004-2007 Rasho/Nazr/Elson/Oberto (split time with Elson) C Duncan PF.
2008-2009 Duncan C Oberto/Bonner/Thomas PF

[greensborohill]

Cry babies


Obviously if he was on the list he would be #1

He's been a center for the last 3 years. It's a joke to try and pass Matt Bonner off as your center.

[WildcardManu]

Cry babies


Obviously if he was on the list he would be #1

He's been a center for the last 3 years. It's a joke to try and pass Matt Bonner off as your center.

Just like the mavs try to pass Dirk as a PF when he runs around like a SF.

[coyotes_geek]

Cry babies


Obviously if he was on the list he would be #1

He's been a center for the last 3 years. It's a joke to try and pass Matt Bonner off as your center.

Fair enough, but the other 7 years he was playing PF. And he did more in those 7 years than anyone on that list did in 10.

[manufan10]

Cry babies


Obviously if he was on the list he would be #1

He's been a center for the last 3 years. It's a joke to try and pass Matt Bonner off as your center.

Here let me show it to you in terms you will understand:

7>3

or

:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:>:lobt::lobt::lobt:

You see that, the left side has more trophies than the right side. That means the left side is greater than the right side. The same simple equation fits Duncan playing PF/C. 7 years of PF > 3 years of C.


Fair enough, but the other 7 years he was playing PF. And he did more in those 7 years than anyone on that list did in 10.

+1