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View Full Version : Best PFs of the decade. No duncan??



SinBAD
10-01-2009, 01:05 AM
I guess they put him as a C but he didnt start playing C till later in the decade.weird

10. Karl Malone
Malone only played until 2004, but the (arguable, if Bob Pettit's in the room) greatest power forward ever was pretty damn potent when he did suit up. Averaged in the low 20s per game, about 8.5 boards, four assists, and provided a staunch, ornery, defensive effort.
The Mailman could have easily played on after 2003-04, when he registered a 17.8 PER at age 40 while working in a new offense with the Lakers for the first time in nearly 20 years. But after a campaign that saw him miss 40 games (after missing 10, mostly by suspension, in the 18 seasons previous), a frustrated Malone moved on. To shooting things.

9. Chris Bosh(notes)
This spindly scorer was an immediate hit in Toronto, showcasing a veteran's knack for putting the ball in the hole almost right away. Though Vince Carter(notes) complained that the Raptors could have used a 2003 lottery pick in a trade to secure veteran talent, Raptor fans knew what they had.
He's averaged 19.6 points and nine rebounds a game so far, and he just turned 25 last March.

8. Chris Webber(notes)
Remember, this list isn't a ranking of all-time power forwards, just the ones that played from 1999-00 until last season. And as great as Webber was at his peak, early in the decade, he was more or less done by late 2005-06; he missed most of 2003-04, and was one of the league's worst defenders from 2004 until his final sprint with the Warriors in 2007-08.
At that peak, though, he was masterful. An all-around terror who worked the low and high post to perfection, setting screens, finding cutters, scoring with the hook or jumper ... he was fantastic.

7. Rasheed Wallace(notes)
Wallace looked like a washout last season, and he hasn't really ventured into the post since the first George W. Bush administration, but his sound shooting and defensive aptitude made him a stalwart contributor on several great Trail Blazers and Pistons teams.
He also put those teams in peril with selfish play (under the guise of acting selfless), repeated technical fouls and a churlish attitude that left him at odds with teammate after teammate in Portland. But you can't deny his on-court accomplishments. Unfortunately.

6. Antawn Jamison(notes)
Jamison gets a lot of stick for the things he doesn't do — move bodies in the paint, grab ferocious rebounds, dominate defensively — but he's so damn good at what he does do that you can't deny him a significant placement on this list.
He can score. About 20 a night. Eight rebounds, rarely turns it over. Very rarely — 1.7 turnovers per game on his career, in almost 37 minutes a contest. And he works defensively, while trying to find the open man. There's a reason the similarly scoring Zach Randolph(notes) didn't make the top 10, while Jamison is all the way up at No. 6, and it has to do with the lack of team-killing ideals in areas outside of putting the ball in the hole.
And unlike Wallace and Malone, Jamison is still going strong. And unlike Bosh, he put in a few years of going strong before Chris even made it to the NBA.

5. Elton Brand(notes)
We're fully aware that Brand has missed nearly two full seasons recently, and that he may never return to the form that saw him mentioned as an MVP candidate in 2005-06, but his peaks were just so good that we couldn't drop him any lower.
Even in the face of constant double-teaming while stuck on lousy Bulls or Clippers teams, Brand has still averaged 20 and 10 on his career, with a combined three blocks/steals and 2.6 assists. And yet, he's unfairly maligned as if it were his fault he tore his Achilles, hired Tim Floyd or drafted Michael Olowokandi(notes).

4. Shawn Marion(notes)
It's an oft-repeated cliché, but it remains the truth — Shawn Marion rarely, very rarely, has a play called for him.
And yet, in a career that started the season this list began, he's averaged almost 18 points per game. It doesn't end there, as he's grabbed about 10 rebounds, averaged a combined 3.1 blocks/steals, dished two assists and turned the ball over a miniscule 1.6 times a contest. Alongside fantastic defense and an ability to spread the floor that helps a team but doesn't always show up in newspaper box scores.

3. Pau Gasol(notes)
This isn't a case of someone just coming into his own. Gasol's per-minute, pace-adjusted stats from last season were about what he was averaging back in 2004-05. Sure, his defense has markedly improved, to the point of being nearly dominant in the playoffs last spring. But this man has been a beast for years. Great to see the rest of the world catch up.
Gasol has averaged 18.8 points, 8.7 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 2.2 combined blocks/steals, in 35.7 minutes per game. And he's only 28. The guy's presence in your high or low post makes your offense much, much better, even if he isn't scoring or registering an assist. That counts.

2. Dirk Nowitzki(notes)
It would be a pity if Nowitzki ended his career as undervalued, overall, because it's hard to find a greater decade of power forward work in the annals of NBA history.
Nowitzki has averaged 23.6 points on about 48 percent shooting on the decade, with 8.9 rebounds, a steal, a block and a shockingly low amount of turnovers. Only about 8.5 percent of the possessions that Nowitzki has used up over the course of the decade have ended in turnovers, a sterling number.

1. Kevin Garnett(notes)
Somehow, Dirk is topped. By a player who still doesn't seem to get the credit he deserves.
Despite the hype, the yelling, the commercials, the fawning on-air tributes from Bill Russell, and (a second time, just to be sure) all the yelling. I still don't think people appreciate how great Kevin Garnett has been over these years, especially defensively.
That's OK, though. Because, despite all the yelling (have you heard the yelling?), I don't think KG cares much. I don't think he gives a toss where he's ranked, even if he is ranked as the greatest power forward of the last decade.

iggypop123
10-01-2009, 01:08 AM
already a thread about it. he has played center in my opinion for the last 5,6 yrs so it makes sense

phyzik
10-01-2009, 01:32 AM
already a thread about it. he has played center in my opinion for the last 5,6 yrs so it makes sense

your opinion is wrong.

David.

Rasho.

Nazr.

If at most Tim has played spot minutes as a center for 3 years.

his natural position has always been PF, regardless if he plays post up ball.

His play style doesnt dictate his position, just like every other player.

People who deny this are just detractors of his greatness.

None of them will ever admit it (as a good fan should not) but they are scared of the Spurs this year.

kobyz
10-01-2009, 01:41 AM
Tim is a PF, no metter which position he play on the floor he still PF, even if he play the positin C he still a power forward!

qiuyizeng
10-01-2009, 02:22 AM
moronic!

CubanSucks
10-01-2009, 02:29 AM
Jamison? Marion? Really? If they are gonna be that flexible with labeling PF then they shouldn't have been so picky with Duncan. Don't know whose list this is but it's totally ameteur

wekko368
10-01-2009, 02:40 AM
his natural position has always been PF, regardless if he plays post up ball.

His play style doesnt dictate his position, just like every other player.


Out of curiosity, could you elaborate on what you think the roles of a PF and a C are and how they are different?

And actually, play style does dictate position. Do you think if Duncan were listed as PG, people would refer to him as such?

CubanSucks
10-01-2009, 02:59 AM
Out of curiosity, could you elaborate on what you think the roles of a PF and a C are and how they are different?

And actually, play style does dictate position. Do you think if Duncan were listed as PG, people would refer to him as such?

Uh there pretty much isn't any distinction. It's really all about the letters by your name on the roster: PF or C.

I've yet to hear any difference between the 2 positions

wekko368
10-01-2009, 03:10 AM
Uh there pretty much isn't any distinction. It's really all about the letters by your name on the roster: PF or C.

I've yet to hear any difference between the 2 positions

Think about some of the great PF's the game has seen: Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Dennis Rodman, Chris Webber.

There's a big difference between those players' games and Duncan's.

IMO, power forwards are generally shorter than centers but far more mobile and will usually have better shooting ranges.

CubanSucks
10-01-2009, 03:20 AM
Think about some of the great PF's the game has seen: Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Dennis Rodman, Chris Webber.

There's a big difference between those players' games and Duncan's.

IMO, power forwards are generally shorter than centers but far more mobile and will usually have better shooting ranges.

If size is the issue then Ben Wallace and Rasheed should have switched positions when they were together and Dirk would most definately be a center. If it's shooting ability then Duncan and David Robinson are both PF. I guess when I think about it the only difference is centers can't shoot the 3, but if one wants to get that picky when labeling then I could care less

wekko368
10-01-2009, 03:54 AM
If size is the issue then Ben Wallace and Rasheed should have switched positions when they were together and Dirk would most definately be a center.

If I make a point, I'd appreciate it if you didn't alter it to suit your agenda. I clearly said that I felt PFs were shorter than C's but more mobile and generally have better shooting ranges.

So no, I don't think size is the sole indicator of position and I don't Dirk should be considered a center.

In regards to the Wallaces, I feel that Rasheed actually played like a center for the Pistons, but since the team wanted Ben to guard the opposing center, they listed Ben at center. Also, isn't Rasheed widely considered a PF/C?



If it's shooting ability then Duncan and David Robinson are both PF. I guess when I think about it the only difference is centers can't shoot the 3, but if one wants to get that picky when labeling then I could care less

Have you considered mobility? Aside from Olajuwon and Robinson, who were both athletic freaks, can you think of any centers who have ever run the floor on fast break attempts? There's not very many (if any at all). IMO, this lack of mobility is one of the biggest attributes that separate a center and power forward.

Players like Barkley, Rodman, Malone, Webber, and Kemp relied on speed, strength, and athleticism to be effective.

Players like Yao, Ewing, Shaq, Kareem, and Howard rely on strength, height, and a dependable interior game to be effective.

Of the two groups, which is Duncan more similar to?

CubanSucks
10-01-2009, 04:07 AM
You said strength on both positions. All their heights are pretty much the same (besides Yao and Barkley) and both need an inside game (otherwise they would just be SF). So it sounds like you're saying it all depends on athleticism? Then why the fuck is Dwight Howard a center and Gasol a PF?

wekko368
10-01-2009, 04:14 AM
You said strength on both positions. All their heights are pretty much the same (besides Yao and Barkley) and both need an inside game (otherwise they would just be SF). So it sounds like you're saying it all depends on athleticism? Then why the fuck is Dwight Howard a center and Gasol a PF?

Yes, I'm aware I said strength for both positions because I believe both positions require strength. The PF's I listed are about 6'9 or 6'10. The C's I listed are 7' or more, so no, the heights are not pretty much the same.

Of the PF's I listed (Barkley, Rodman, Malone, Webber, and Kemp), only Barkley had an inside game because he was wide and strong enough to back his opponent down.

Gasol should be listed as a C.

sabar
10-01-2009, 05:24 AM
The positions are outdated.

You have bigs, guards, and swingmen. Theres some other tweener positions that are rarely seen. With a lack of definitive big men these days, the center position is often played by shorter guys that would have been forwards. Most teams seem to just ram inside-playing big men in C/PF and surround them with shooters. There aren't a lot of pure PGs either. Lots of combo guards. Positions are very flexible. Bigs are always wanted, even undersized ones. Why? They're rare. Not a lot of Hakeems/Robinsons/Shaqs to go around.

As has been done many times, just try to make a list of the top centers in the league currently. The list starts to look very mediocre after just a few entries.

The game has just changed as rules and the kinds of people change.

I-Ball
10-01-2009, 08:14 AM
The positions are outdated.

You have bigs, guards, and swingmen. Theres some other tweener positions that are rarely seen. With a lack of definitive big men these days, the center position is often played by shorter guys that would have been forwards. Most teams seem to just ram inside-playing big men in C/PF and surround them with shooters. There aren't a lot of pure PGs either. Lots of combo guards. Positions are very flexible. Bigs are always wanted, even undersized ones. Why? They're rare. Not a lot of Hakeems/Robinsons/Shaqs to go around.

As has been done many times, just try to make a list of the top centers in the league currently. The list starts to look very mediocre after just a few entries.

The game has just changed as rules and the kinds of people change.

+1
good post.

on a sidenote, the nba should change the voting ballots for the all-star-game to go along with this development of positions.

#2!
10-01-2009, 08:28 AM
Sucks. this means they'll put duncan on the c's list in 2nd right behind shaq(who is obviously the best Center of the decade). Tim has been playing the inside game more but like others have said, if TD is a center then why bring in guys like Rasho and Nazr? Of course I think timmy's a PF though, i'm a spurs fan, but timmy said on media day that there will be a concerted effort to become a clear PF again, which means he's been switching over the last few seasons(not 5 or 6 as some have suggested though).

Also, the deciding factor for a position cannot be athleticism. thats fucking retarded.

#2!
10-01-2009, 08:33 AM
combine threads?

Obstructed_View
10-02-2009, 05:59 PM
So since the Spurs don't run a fast break, that means they have no power forwards on their roster.

mookie2001
10-02-2009, 06:15 PM
fascinating stuff

i dont anyones ever discussed this on spurstalk