Frederick Douglass on Slavery & the US Constitution

[Spurtacular]

That's not the Constitution

Are you saying that the EP was unconstitutional when Lincoln issued it?

[Pavlov]

It freed all slaves in the union.

:lol "did nothing for the slaves in the union.":lol no

You really don't know anything.

Derp.

[Pavlov]

Are you saying that the EP was unconstitutional when Lincoln issued it?I'm saying it's not the Constitution and it did nothing for the slaves in the union.

Period.

What part do you not understand?

[Spurtacular]

I'm saying it's not the Constitution and it did nothing for the slaves in the union.

Period.

What part do you not understand?

It's the Constitution that allowed for the freeing of the slaves unless you're saying that EP was unconstitutional.

[Spurtacular]

:lol no

You really don't know anything.

Derp.

Legally, yes.

":lol"

[Winehole23]

Derptacular persistence is derptacular.

[Winehole23]

I'm not sure I've ever seen such studious avoidance of the plain meaning of what other people say.

[Spurtacular]

I'm not sure I've ever seen such studious avoidance of the plain meaning of what other people say.

Standard stuff for chump.

[Winehole23]

Standard for you.

Your avoidance of plain vanilla questions is remarkable.

[Pavlov]

It's the Constitution that allowed for the freeing of the slaves unless you're saying that EP was unconstitutional.those slaves weren't in the union.

lol derp

[Spurtacular]

those slaves weren't in the union.

lol derp

Tell that to Abraham Lincoln. He seems to have been under the impression that he had jurisdiction.

[Pavlov]

Tell that to Abraham Lincoln. He seems to have been under the impression that he had jurisdiction.Tell that to the confederates that kept their slaves after that.

It did nothing for the slaves in the union.

And it wasn't the Constitution.

Period.

[Spurtacular]

Tell that to the confederates that kept their slaves after that.

It did nothing for the slaves in the union.

And it wasn't the Constitution.

Period.

Ah, poor chumpy. The law's the law 'cept when it's not.

:lmao

[Spurtacular]

Don't worry; you're fluffer(s) will come by and tell you this is a W for you.

:lmao

[Pavlov]

Ah, poor chumpy. The law's the law 'cept when it's not.

:lmao:lmao Derp doesn't know what the Civil War was.

You're wrong about the proclamation then.

It's not the Constitution and it did nothing for the slaves in the union.

Period.

[Spurtacular]

:lmao Derp doesn't know what the Civil War was.

You're wrong about the proclamation then.

It's not the Constitution and it did nothing for the slaves in the union.

Period.

All law is either supported by the Constitution or it's not, numb nuts. You haven's said that EP was unconstitutional. You're trying to insult your way out of a giant L.

Par.

:lol "Period"

[Blake]

All law is either supported by the Constitution or it's not, numb nuts.

Seriously, you're a fucking idiot. Seriously. No lol.

[Bleke]

Seriously, you're a fucking idiot. Seriously. No lol.

Can you believe that guy? OMG!

[Blake]

Seriously, you're a fucking idiot. Seriously. No lol.

[Pavlov]

All law is either supported by the Constitution or it's not, numb nuts. You haven's said that EP was unconstitutional. You're trying to insult your way out of a giant L.

Par.

:lol "Period"I never claimed it was unconstitutional. The EP only freed slaves because they were still considered property and the confiscation of property was allowed.

It's not the Constitution and it did nothing for the slaves in the union.

Period.

You simply have no idea what you're talking about.

[Spurtacular]

I never claimed it was unconstitutional.

Ah. So, the Constitution worked for blacks after all. :tu

[Pavlov]

Ah. So, the Constitution worked for blacks after all. :tuActually no.:tu

The Constitution didn't work for them until it was amended.

[Spurtacular]

Actually no.:tu

The Constitution either allowed the freeing of the blacks or it didn't. This is fundamental stuff, psychopav.

[Pavlov]

The Constitution either allowed the freeing of the blacks or it didn't. This is fundamental stuff, psychopav.:lol allowed

It had to be amended to free the slaves.

[Spurtacular]

It didn't. That's why it had to be amended.

Oh, so now it was unconstitutional you've decided pscyhopav.

[Pavlov]

Oh, so now it was unconstitutional you've decided pscyhopav.No. Loss of property by people in rebellion was allowed.

Outright freeing of slaves was not.

That's why the constitution had to be amended. This is fundamental stuff.

[Spurtacular]

No. Loss of property by people in rebellion was allowed.

Outright freeing of slaves was not.

That's why the constitution had to be amended. This is fundamental stuff.

Ah. So, show us in the Constitution in which it says blacks had to be slaves.

[Pavlov]

Ah. So, show us in the Constitution in which it says blacks had to be slaves.:lmao straw man. I accept your white flag.

[Spurtacular]

:lmao straw man. I accept your white flag.

You can't do it. I accept your white flag.

[Pavlov]

You can't do it. I accept your white flag.I never claimed it said that.

Why do you have to lie, derp?

[Winehole23]

Ah. So, show us in the Constitution in which it says blacks had to be slaves.It was legal to import slaves until 1808. There were fugitive slave acts in 1793 and 1850.

Black birth was not a guarantee of involuntary servitude, but slave birth almost certainly was until the 1863 emancipation.

In the south, free blacks ran the risk of becoming slaves again:


"Southerners came to believe that the only successful means of removing the threat of free Negroes was to expel them from the southern states or to change their status from free persons to ... slaves."[34] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro#cite_note-Smith-34):112 Free Negroes were perceived as "an evil of no ordinary magnitude,"[34] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro#cite_note-Smith-34):119 undermining the system of slavery. Slaves had to be shown that there was no advantage in being free; thus, free Negroes became victims of the slaveholders' fears. Legislation became more forceful; the free Negro had to accept his new role or leave the state. In Florida, for example, legislation of 1827 and 1828 prohibited them from joining public gatherings and "giving seditious speeches", and laws of 1825, 1828, and 1833 ended their right to carry firearms. They were barred from jury service and from testifying against whites. To manumit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manumit) (free) a slave, a master had to pay a tax of $200 each, and had to post a bond guaranteeing that the free negro would leave the state within 30 days.[35] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro#cite_note-35)Eventually, some citizens of Leon County (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantations_of_Leon_County), Florida's most populous[36] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro#cite_note-36) and wealthiest[34] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro#cite_note-Smith-34):140 county, which wealth was because Leon County had more slaves than any other county in Florida, who in the 1860 census constituted 73% of its population,[37] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro#cite_note-37) petitioned the General Assembly to have all free Negroes removed from the state.[34] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro#cite_note-Smith-34):118


In Florida, legislation passed in 1847 required all free Negroes to have a white person as legal guardian;[34] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro#cite_note-Smith-34):120 in 1855, an act was passed which prevented free Negroes from entering the state.[34] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro#cite_note-Smith-34):119 "In 1861, an act was passed requiring all free Negroes in Florida to register with the judge of probate in whose county they resided. The Negro, when registering, had to give his name, age, color, sex, and occupation, and had to pay one dollar to register ... All Negroes over twelve years of age had to have a guardian approved by the probate judge ... The guardian could be sued for any crime committed by the Negro; the Negro could not be sued. Under the new law, any free Negro or mulatto who did not register with the nearest probate judge was classified as a slave and became the lawful property of any white person who claimed possession."[34] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro#cite_note-Smith-34):121
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro


http://legisworks.org/sal/2/stats/STATUTE-2-Pg426.pdf
https://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/slave02.htm
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/fugitive.asp

[Winehole23]

btw, Derptacular, was there ever any significant number of nonwhite slaves in the USA?

[Spurtacular]

It was legal to import slaves until 1808. There were fugitive slave acts in 1793 and 1850.

Black birth was not a guarantee of involuntary servitude, but slave birth almost certainly was until the 1863 emancipation.

In the south, free blacks ran the risk of becoming slaves again:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Negro


http://legisworks.org/sal/2/stats/STATUTE-2-Pg426.pdf
https://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/slave02.htm
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/fugitive.asp

Cool stories, bruh. Now do you have anything from the Constitution that directly requires blacks to be slaves?

[Winehole23]

The US Constitution did not require slavery, but did recognize and protect it.

Federal and state laws enforced involuntary servitude until the US Constitution was amended to prohibit it except for convicts.

Customarily, this meant the bondage of people of African heritage to others. There never was any significant population of non-black slaves.

[Winehole23]

So then, your straw man has failed at inception. No one claimed the Constitution mandated African American servitude, but it's undeniable that was the custom.

First by slavery, then by convict leasing and debt peonage until 1941.

[Pavlov]

:lol Derp working det strawman hard.

[Blake]

Cool stories, bruh. Now do you have anything from the Constitution that directly requires blacks to be slaves?

Seriously, nobody anywhere made that assertion.

Seriously, you're an idiot.

[Spurtacular]

Seriously, nobody anywhere made that assertion.

Seriously, you're an idiot.

What assertion are you making, cuck?

[Blake]

What assertion are you making, cuck?

That you're an idiot, idiot.

I can't dumb down the phrase "you're an idiot" any further than that for you. Sorry.

[Pavlov]

That you're an idiot, idiot.

I can't dumb down the phrase "you're an idiot" any further than that for you. Sorry.Oh yeah? Well...what phrase are you making?

[Spurtacular]

That you're an idiot, idiot.

I can't dumb down the phrase "you're an idiot" any further than that for you. Sorry.

There's nothing you can't dumb down further, cuck.

And yea, you're not saying anything on the subject. Par.

[Pavlov]

There's nothing you can't dumb down further, cuck.

And yea, you're not saying anything on the subject. Par.You proved you're an idiot by failing to understand anything relating to the subject and making up and repeating a straw man fallacy when you knew you failed to understand anything about the subject.

[Spurtacular]

You proved you're an idiot by failing to understand anything relating to the subject and making up and repeating a straw man fallacy when you knew you failed to understand anything about the subject.

:lmao Lashing out to defend your cuck's lashing out.

[Pavlov]

:lmao Lashing out to defend your cuck's lashing out.No. I explained it fully.

Is there any part of that you don't understand?

[Spurtacular]

No. I explained it fully.

Is there any part of that you don't understand?

I understand your need to lash out.

[Pavlov]

I understand your need to lash out.You're done here too.:tu

I accept your white flag.

[Spurtacular]

You're done here too.

So, many times you have that comeback that. I question that you're even above blake level, tbh.

[Pavlov]

So, many times you have that comeback that. I question that you're even above blake level, tbh.Ok, if you're not done the you can explain what the Emancipation Proclamation of January 1, 1863 did in full.

Go.

[Avant]

Ok, if you're not done the you can explain what the Emancipation Proclamation of January 1, 1863 did in full.

Go.

No end to it, hahaha~~~~

[boutons_deux]

O Brother, Where Art Thou?

Convicts are returning to farming – anti-immigrant policies are the reason

Prison inmates are picking fruits and vegetables at a rate not seen since Jim Crow.

Convict leasing for agriculture – a system that allows states to sell prison labor to private farms – became infamous in the late 1800s for the brutal conditions (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/07/sugar-land-imperial-prison-farm-cemetery-prisoners-remains) it imposed on captive, mostly black workers.

Federal and state laws prohibited convict leasing (https://www.jstor.org/stable/2210349?casa_token=Ko7PNTxzDzYAAAAA:Th0QwXMGeU9uHh oaPmE4xWQvTNgbP73v1NxaVHTv3ImdvjCJWxyKquIboIlK-GlcobbMTf1ZnBJRqx5VB6jEfO0Ao8MYEj445jTqifCAycm7687 bSeC2&seq=1) for most of the 20th century, but

the once-notorious practice is making a comeback.

Under lucrative arrangements,

states are increasingly leasing prisoners to private corporations

to harvest food for American consumers.

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/convicts-are-returning-to-farming-anti-immigrant-policies-are-the-reason/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29 (https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/convicts-are-returning-to-farming-anti-immigrant-policies-are-the-reason/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29)

[Winehole23]

^^^just guessing, this would be in one or many of the five states that still have involuntary servitude for convicts.

[Winehole23]

In the news this week:

https://abc13.com/society/fbisd-drops-legal-actions-linked-to-graves-on-school-site/5149995/rest in power, Reginald Moore.


Reginald Moore passed away on July 3 (https://abc13.com/reginald-moore-death-sugar-land-activist-dead-fort-bend/6313692/) at the age of 60 due to heart failure. Although he is best known for the discovery of the Sugar Land 95, Moore’s mission to honor the victims of the convict leasing system began 30 years before that fateful summer. Since partnering with the Woodson Research Center and Rice’s history department in 2015, his wealth of groundbreaking research will be available to scholars for years to come. Armed with a voice and passion both larger than life, Moore began a community’s crusade to demand historical recognition from city officials, and pioneered a new chapter in Texas history. https://www.ricethresher.org/article/2020/07/reginald-moore-sugar-land-95-activist-and-a-peoples-historian-leaves-behind-a-legacy-of-endurance

[boutons_deux]

Bill by Sen. Tom Cotton targets curriculum on slavery

https://wehco.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2020/01/05/resized_250499-7acotton5x8bw_52-28271_t800.JPG?90232451fbcadccc64a17de7521d859a8f8 8077d

A New York Times-based school curriculum emphasizing American slavery instead of American independence has been targeted by U.S. Sen. Tom Cotton.

The Little Rock Republican introduced legislation Thursday that would prevent the use of federal tax dollars to spread the historical reinterpretation in the nation’s classrooms.


If the Saving American History Act of 2020 becomes law, however, school districts using the 1619 Project curriculum could face financial consequences.

Cotton’s legislation labels the project “a distortion of American history.”

“The 1619 Project is left-wing propaganda. It’s revisionist history at its worst,” he said in an interview Friday.

If Cotton’s legislation passes, school districts that embrace the curriculum would no longer qualify for federal professional development funds, money that is intended to improve teacher quality.

Cotton said the role of slavery can’t be overlooked.

“We have to study the history of slavery and its role and impact on the development of our country because otherwise we can’t understand our country. As the Founding Fathers said,

it was the necessary evil upon which the union was built,

but the union was built in a way, as Lincoln said,

to put slavery on the course to its ultimate extinction,” :lol yes! Lincoln beat the shit out of traitorous slavers

Instead of portraying America as “an irredeemably corrupt, rotten and racist country,” :lol truth!

the nation should be viewed “as an imperfect and flawed land, but

the greatest and noblest country in the history of mankind,” Cotton said. :lol right-wing mythical propaganda!

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/jul/26/bill-by-cotton-targets-curriculum-on-slavery/?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_ArkansasOnline&ncid=newsltushpmgnews

Why are Americans so insecure, so ignorant that they MUST ALWAYS believe these shitty myths about themselves?

[Winehole23]

Sen. Cotton wants his high school history back. Apparently it falls to pieces on contact with the work of professional historians.

[Winehole23]

Best take I've seen on this so far:

1287725090025676801

[ElNono]

I'm generally not a fan of opinion pieces, but I thought this was well written, and interesting. Gonna have to check out that 1619 project.

How Tom Cotton accidentally told an appalling truth

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/opinions/tom-cotton-slavery-comments-1619-project-bailey/index.html

[Winehole23]

There's a personal element to this.

Sen. Cotton's family were slaveholders. The US government also gave the Cottons 40 acres of Indian territory that it had promised to the Creek forever by treaty, only to dispossess the Creek again and push them into Oklahoma.

Without slavery and the trail of tears, there probably would be no Senator Cotton.

[boutons_deux]

The Clear Connection Between Slavery And American Capitalism

The slave economy of the southern states had ripple effects throughout the entire U.S. economy,

more than half of the nation’s exports in the first six decades of the 19th century consisted of raw cotton, almost all of it grown by slaves,

with plenty of merchants in New York City, Boston, and elsewhere helping to organize the trade of slave-grown agricultural commodities—

and enjoying plenty of riches as a result.

“In the decades between the American Revolution and the Civil War, slavery—

as a source of the cotton that fed Rhode Island’s mills,

as a source of the wealth that filled New York’s banks,

as a source of the markets that inspired Massachusetts manufacturers—

proved indispensable to national economic development,”

“… Cotton offered a reason for entrepreneurs and inventors to build manufactories in such places as Lowell, Pawtucket, and Paterson,

thereby connecting New England’s Industrial Revolution to the advancing plantation frontier of the Deep South.

And financing cotton growing, as well as marketing and transporting the crop, was a source of great wealth for the nation’s merchants and banks.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge/2017/05/03/the-clear-connection-between-slavery-and-american-capitalism/#6b22e3a07bd3 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge/2017/05/03/the-clear-connection-between-slavery-and-american-capitalism/#6b22e3a07bd3)

[elbamba1]

I'm generally not a fan of opinion pieces, but I thought this was well written, and interesting. Gonna have to check out that 1619 project.

How Tom Cotton accidentally told an appalling truth

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/opinions/tom-cotton-slavery-comments-1619-project-bailey/index.html

If you ignore the title, which kind of misleads the actual point of the article, this opinion piece is actually really interesting.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/06/1619-project-new-york-times-mistake-122248

[boutons_deux]

Best take I've seen on this so far:

1287725090025676801

where is 1619 censoring that "point"?

[Winehole23]

where is 1619 censoring that "point"?Read again, I think you missed a word

[boutons_deux]

Read again, I think you missed a word

yep, I missed it, thanks

[ElNono]

If you ignore the title, which kind of misleads the actual point of the article, this opinion piece is actually really interesting.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/06/1619-project-new-york-times-mistake-122248

Thank you!

[Winehole23]

Steven Miller turned in his final exam.



https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/The-Presidents-Advisory-1776-Commission-Final-Report.pdf

[Winehole23]

Steven Miller turned in his final exam.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/The-Presidents-Advisory-1776-Commission-Final-Report.pdfThere's no bibliography. Skimming it quickly I saw zero references to the work of any historian, living or dead.


,

[ElNono]

There's no bibliography. Skimming it quickly I saw zero references to the work of any historian, living or dead.
,

Yeah, it’s a terrible read. The notion that progressivism is as much of an evil as fascism or communism is flat out idiotic.

[ElNono]

At the same time, it is important to note that by design there is room in the Constitution for significant change and reform. Indeed, great reforms—like abolition, women’s suffrage, anti-Communism, the Civil Rights Movement, and the Pro-Life Movement—have often come forward that improve our dedication to the principles of the Declaration of Independence under the Constitution.

Uh?

[Winehole23]

1351322390966497280

[boutons_deux]

‘Of Course They Released It on MLK Day’:

Trump Admin’s ‘1776 Commission’ Report Roundly Condemned for ‘Historical Amnesia’

released a report on the nation’s history by its 1776 Commission — and

it was quickly condemned by historians and others online for attempting to whitewash the country’s history of slavery and institutional racism.

The commission was announced by Trump on Constitution Day four months ago,

in a highly partisan proclamation (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-white-house-conference-american-history/) that went to great lengths to attack “cancel culture” and “mobs” tearing down statutes,

saying “the left has warped, distorted, and defiled the American story with deceptions, falsehoods, and lies.”

Trump then singled out the New York Times’ Pulitzer-Prize winning essay collection, The 1619 Project, making little pretense that

his commission was to produce a culture war rebuttal to that piece.

came under immediate criticism from historians and others for downplaying the nation’s sordid sin of endorsing slavery in its founding document and

for trying to indict the Civil Rights Movement and “identity politics” as having distorted American principles.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/of-course-they-released-it-on-mlk-day-trump-admins-1776-commission-report-roundly-condemned-for-historical-amnesia/

Repugs, unrepentant RACISTS, always have been for 60 years, at least.

American govt is racist, discriminating against blacks at every opportunity.

That's Who We Are.

But White, Blue-Eyed, Blond God Loves Christian America The Most

Trash releasing (Stephen Himmler Miller's?) 1776 to counter 1619 is "Fuck the knitters, and fuck the knitter lovers", the official policy of the Repug party rabidly endorsed by its cult mob.

[Winehole23]

about a quarter of Steven Miller's book report was plagiarized. like definitive histories do.

1351328889029668864

1351331998493782018

[Winehole23]

Steven Miller turned in his final exam.



https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/The-Presidents-Advisory-1776-Commission-Final-Report.pdf..and now it's scrubbed from the White House website

1351941117672124420