If it were Tony's decision, Manu and McDyess would start

[lurker23]

At least, that's what he says on his Facebook.

http://www.facebook.com/tp9network

"hi everybody!! little game of the day... if u are... gregg popovich, what will be your starting five for the spurs version 2009 2010 ? at the end of the day i will give u mine. waiting for your answers!!!!"

"my starting 5: 1 tony parker 2 manu ginobili 3 richard jefferson 4 tim duncan 5 antonio mcdyess voila a tres bientot et merci pour votre soutien!!!!!!"

[HarlemHeat37]

I still wouldn't start Manu, we really wouldn't have anybody to create for the 2nd unit..

I don't like Roger creating for himself, so I think he's fine as a starter with other guys to get him shots..

I love the 2nd unit with Manu though..Hill-Ginobili is the best bench backcourt or even backup combo in general in the NBA, without any doubt, they're going to be a scary combination IMO..

Depending on who makes the team, our 2nd unit could potentially be very explosive and athletic..Manu, Hill, Blair, Ian, Haislip, Hairston..a lot of athletes there for high quality defense and running the court..

I fully agree with McDyess starting though, and I really hope he does over Bonner..I wouldn't be surprised to see Matt start the first few games though, but we'll see..

[coyotes_geek]

With a Big 4 I don't think it's nearly as important that Manu comes off the bench anymore. Pop can work the rotations where there's always at least two guys out of the Parker/Manu/RJ/Duncan quartet on the floor at all times and with the upgrades to the supporting cast that's going to be enough to prevent things from grinding to a halt when Tony & Tim are getting their rest. I'd start Manu.

[Interrohater]

I disagree. Manu off the bench has already been a proven philosophy. It's unnecessary and almost a waste to have that much talent in the starting lineup, there's only one ball. Manu leading the charge with a severely upgraded 2nd unit makes me feel angry, it's that badass

[EricB]

Parker
Mason
Jefferson
Duncan
McDyess


Rinse and repeat.

[benefactor]

I still wouldn't start Manu, we really wouldn't have anybody to create for the 2nd unit..

I don't like Roger creating for himself, so I think he's fine as a starter with other guys to get him shots..

I love the 2nd unit with Manu though..Hill-Ginobili is the best bench backcourt or even backup combo in general in the NBA, without any doubt, they're going to be a scary combination IMO..

Depending on who makes the team, our 2nd unit could potentially be very explosive and athletic..Manu, Hill, Blair, Ian, Haislip, Hairston..a lot of athletes there for high quality defense and running the court..

I fully agree with McDyess starting though, and I really hope he does over Bonner..I wouldn't be surprised to see Matt start the first few games though, but we'll see..
I agree completely. I was looking forward to this last year but after Manu got hurt a lot of things changed. Now that Hill has a year under his belt and Manu seems ready to go we get to see it in full force. They should give plenty of headaches to opposing coaches.

[tmtcsc]

Manu and Dice will start. Book it. The Manu off the bench days are officially over.

Duncan
Dice
Parker
Ginobili
Jefferson

[coyotes_geek]

It's not like the Spurs sub in 5 guys at a time. You can start Manu and bring Hill off the bench and still have the two of them sharing court time together.

[EJFischer]

I expect to see that lineup, but not at the start of the game until at least 2010. They want Manu for the end of games, and his conditioning likely isn't there yet to play starter minutes.

[hater]

goddam it who gives a shit who starts. It's all about who finishes

[Brazil]

Parker
Mason
Jefferson
Duncan
McDyess

Manu off the bench for christ sake. Every year this is the same story, Manu is in the starting 5 and 2 months later everybody realizes that the second unit needs a boost and Manu goes back off the bench. waste of time to try otherwise IMHO.

[DPG21920]

There are only so many shots to go around in the starting 5. Why would you minimize what RJ can give you by having Manu out there? Manu off of the bench would mean more shots for Manu and RJ.

[lefty]

WTF Parker.

Pop is gonna go so Pop on your ass

[coyotes_geek]

I disagree. Manu off the bench has already been a proven philosophy.

That philosiphy was proven on a roster that no longer exists.


It's unnecessary and almost a waste to have that much talent in the starting lineup, there's only one ball.

So that means that Manu and the other three guys don't have to work as hard. Not a bad situation IMO.


Manu leading the charge with a severely upgraded 2nd unit makes me feel angry, it's that badass

That can still happen with Manu in the starting lineup. Start all 4, let Tim and Tony get their rest together. During that time you've got Manu and RJ out there with Hill, Blair and another big. Hill, Manu and RJ can all attack the rim, and you've got Blair there to clean the glass.

When it's time to give Manu and RJ a rest, get Tony & Tim out there with Mason, Finley/Bogans and McDyess and you can just let Tim & Tony pick and roll teams to death, with shooters out there to keep the floor spread.

[EricB]

You bring Manu off the bench to make him more of a focal point on the offensive end ot get him going for the end of said games.

The beginning of games is to get Duncan and Parker going as well as Mason and Jefferson.

Let Manu come off the bench to get the majority of shots and set up Hill, Blair, and others.

[ElNono]

I still wouldn't start Manu, we really wouldn't have anybody to create for the 2nd unit..

What do you mean???? We have Bonner and Finley...

[/sarcasm]

[EricB]

Well talking about our second unit, in the halfcourt scrimmages today Haislip played very well. Ian did some low post defense drills and defended well. Bonner was hitting shots.

Hot damn....

[Morg1411]

Parker
Mason
Jefferson
Duncan
McDyess

Manu off the bench for christ sake. Every year this is the same story, Manu is in the starting 5 and 2 months later everybody realizes that the second unit needs a boost and Manu goes back off the bench. waste of time to try otherwise IMHO.

+1 this

[hater]

Manu will definitely come off the bench to start the season.

[ElNono]

starters:
Parker
Mason
Finley
Duncan
Bonner

2nd unit:
Hill
Ginobili
Jefferson
McDyess
Blair

[EricB]

starters:
Parker
Mason
Finley
Duncan
Bonner

2nd unit:
Hill
Ginobili
Jefferson
McDyess
Blair


I would only wish that so the goofballs on here would have a coronary and go away.

[ElNono]

I would only wish that so the goofballs on here would have a coronary and go away.

LOL, I can already envision the 'Fscking Pop, why is Finley starting?!?!?!' threads...

[dbestpro]

I'd prefer Manu to start. I think he is more likely to get hurt coming off the bench as he tries to do too much and is more likely to be tripped or maimed by the other team's scrubinies.

[TMTTRIO]

I'd prefer Manu to start. I think he is more likely to get hurt coming off the bench as he tries to do too much and is more likely to be tripped or maimed by the other team's scrubinies.


That's what I was thinking. If Manu starts he won't have all the pressure to produce right away or do as much as he does coming off the bench and he can preserve some of that energy towards the end of the game. Also it could keep him healthier this way. Why is it that Manu's always supposed to be the main 'spark off the bench because that's what he's always done and he needs to be? What if Manu leaves next year? Eventually that's going to stop. We need someone else to be this main spark off the bench and I think we have a great bench this year with plenty of guys that can bring it especially Hill.

[EricB]

I'd prefer Manu to start. I think he is more likely to get hurt coming off the bench as he tries to do too much and is more likely to be tripped or maimed by the other team's scrubinies.


WTF...

So you want him to not do anything or alot.

Great.

[EricB]

That's what I was thinking. If Manu starts he won't have all the pressure to produce right away or do as much as he does coming off the bench and he can preserve some of that energy towards the end of the game. Also it could keep him healthier this way. Why is it that Manu's always supposed to be the main 'spark off the bench because that's what he's always done and he needs to be? What if Manu leaves next year? Eventually that's going to stop. We need someone else to be this main spark off the bench and I think we have a great bench this year with plenty of guys that can bring it especially Hill.


So you start him, he doesn't get any shots or hardly involved in the offense and he's not in a rhythm for the 4th.

Makes sense.

[coyotes_geek]

So you start him, he doesn't get any shots or hardly involved in the offense and he's not in a rhythm for the 4th.

Makes sense.

There have been plenty of teams who have found ways to be successful with their 4 best players in the starting lineup. If you go look at Manu's stats you will see there is zero difference in his productivity between when he starts and when he comes off the bench. Ultimately, that fact is why I think this whole issue of whether or not Manu starts is overblown. I just don't see any problem with starting him because he can still play minutes with the 2nd unit and that 2nd unit is upgraded significantly from years past. I'd just like to see him start because when crunch time in the playoffs come he's going to be out there with Tim, Tony and RJ. So why not start him and be working on getting the chemistry between those 4 to where it needs to be?

[dbestpro]

WTF...

So you want him to not do anything or alot.

Great.

I want him to play team ball with the best players on the floor and not feel like he has to carry the team. The more weapons that we have on offense the harder it is to defend any one part of our offense.

[#2!]

WTF...

So you want him to not do anything or alot.

Great.

I don't think that's what he meant, but way to sneak in a couple of douchebag comments unnecessarily. :tu

Anyways, the argument for manu coming off the bench would be that if he starts he won't get cold sitting on the bench. That's how injuries happen, trying to go full out(which is all manu does) w/ out being properly stretched and warmed up. However i don't really care which way it happens b/c on the spurs the rotations are always so mixed that it doesn't really matter.

[Bruno]

It isn't easy to limit minutes for a player if he starts end ends game.
I can see Pop putting Manu and Dice on the bench for that reason.

[JamStone]

I think it's an option, but not only does Manu have a purpose coming off the bench being the focal point on offense in that second unit, I thought Pop has done that in part to help control his minutes throughout the season. Keeping Manu off the bench allows Pop to make sure he stays around that 26-30 mpg. I don't see why you need to start Manu especially with more offensive options with Jefferson and McDyess so that the starters shouldn't struggle offensively.

[timaios]

It isn't easy to limit minutes for a player if he starts end ends game.
I can see Pop putting Manu and Dice on the bench for that reason.

Or you play them at the beginning of the game and it's a blowout win... so no 4th quarter for starters and big minutes at the end for the young players.

Ok, maybe i'm dreaming too much. :p:

[TIMMYD!]

Manu is coming of the bench because we need somebody to create shots for our 2nd unit.

[024]

manu doesn't need to start. before, i believed he needed to start because there isn't enough offense present in the starting lineup. by the time ginobili enters the game, the spurs would be down 5-10 points. with jefferson and mcdyess now, ginobili can be better utilized off the bench, like always. mason is a good compliment to jefferson and parker's inside drives.

[Manufan909]

Or you play them at the beginning of the game and it's a blowout win... so no 4th quarter for starters and big minutes at the end for the young players.

Ok, maybe i'm dreaming too much. :p:

Cooler dream than mine usually are.:toast

And I love the idea of Manu starting so as to develop chemistry with the first unit. He'll be the first of the Big 4 to come out, with Mason going in. Then Blair/Ian can come in for Duncan. Then Hill can go in for Tony, and Hairston/MW can go in for RJ. Something like that, I almost confused myself.:downspin:

Hopefully the starters can creat a nice 7pt lead and the youngins can add to it, or at least tread water til Pop decides to put 3 or all of the Big 4 in.

[DPG21920]

I think it's an option, but not only does Manu have a purpose coming off the bench being the focal point on offense in that second unit, I thought Pop has done that in part to help control his minutes throughout the season. Keeping Manu off the bench allows Pop to make sure he stays around that 26-30 mpg. I don't see why you need to start Manu especially with more offensive options with Jefferson and McDyess so that the starters shouldn't struggle offensively.

Agreed. Especially when you would be diminishing Mason's role. You can maximize the production you get from Mason/RJ/Manu by having Manu come off the bench. It will result in the most/best shots for everyone involved.

[024]

Manu is coming of the bench because we need somebody to create shots for our 2nd unit.
it isn't really even that. the spurs will now always have at least 1-2 members of the big 4 on the floor at all times. they will be the ones creating shots. plus, hill can kind of do it. ginobili off the bench will help in limiting his minutes. if he was playing, either he or jefferson probably will be camping the three point line anyways, something mason can easily do.

[Brazil]

Well talking about our second unit, in the halfcourt scrimmages today Haislip played very well. Ian did some low post defense drills and defended well. Bonner was hitting shots.

Thanks Phila your insiders are precious to us.
Really happy to read something positive about Ian especially on D, I really hope he can prove to Pop he can contribute. Come on Ian this is your chance right now !

[Mr. Body]

Blair in the second unit setting crushing picks for Manu and Hill.

[Solid D]

Blair in the second unit setting crushing picks for Manu and Hill.

Yeah, I like the notion of Blair on the floor with Manu and Hill....but just give me Manu on the floor 30 mpg for 78 games with this roster and Stern will be be using that "Pantheon" word again about the Spurs.

[spursfan1000]

goddam it who gives a shit who starts. It's all about who finishes

It does matters who starts. If we have all our best players starting we wouldent have enough fire power off the bench.

[BillMc]

I like tony's team as the "crunch time" team, but agree Manu should come off the bench as Roger is more valuable when other's create for him. Manu will be (as always) a dynomo on the second team.

[exstatic]

Yeah, I like the notion of Blair on the floor with Manu and Hill....but just give me Manu on the floor 30 mpg for 78 games with this roster and Stern will be be using that "Pantheon" word again about the Spurs.
While I'd love 30 minutes as a concept, Manu's playing style means a physical breakdown is in the offing if he plays that much. I thought Pop said something about 24 mpg.

[ducks]

good
even 24 might be pitching it with injury prone manu

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Dice will start, and Manu will lead the bench as he should.

As has been stated by others above, there's only one ball, so starting Manu would be a waste. Mason is PERFECT for the starting lineup - TP, Tim and RJ create, Money and Dice hit the open Js. Off the bench, Manu can also play fewer minutes - I'd like to see him playing half a game until April.

One thing you don't have to worry about is that Manu will be on the court at the end - that's a no-brainer. :D

[Chieflion]

If Richard Jefferson could lead the 2nd unit effectively, I am actually all for it, seeing that it was how it was in scrimmages.

PG: Parker
SG: Ginobili
SF: Finley (Do we have a choice?)
PF: Duncan
C: McDyess

2nd unit:

PG: Hill
SG: Mason
SF: Jefferson
PF: Blair/Haislip (Depending on matchups)
C: Ratlff/Ian (Depending on matchups)

[Solid D]

While I'd love 30 minutes as a concept, Manu's playing style means a physical breakdown is in the offing if he plays that much. I thought Pop said something about 24 mpg.

He's never made it to 78 games in the regular season, either, but a guy can dream, can't he? :lol

[ducks]

He's never made it to 78 games in the regular season, either, but a guy can dream, can't he? :lol

48 games and healthy for playoffs is better then 78 regular season games

[Solid D]

48 games and healthy for playoffs is better then 78 regular season games

First non-hater thing you've said about Manu in a while. I knew you had it in you, ducks. I agree with you, too.

[Obstructed_View]

Manu coming off the bench with an energetic second unit that can rebound and defend would be downright scary for other teams.

[Bambililos]

It's interesting to know that TP said he prefers to play with Manu rather than Mason Jr. I think that's the main reason he picked Manu in his starting lineup, but he may agree with Pop's decision to make him play with the second unit.

[ducks]

tp has played more with manu then mason

[venitian navigator]

I'm starting to think that the failure of the play making/play offs Mason experiment could mean he became expendable...
It's indoubtable that, if we don't want a third playmaker, at least we need an insurance like a player that is normally a guard but when necessary can be the playmaker...Gino has been that player before, but we had Voughn too...and the year before we had Barry.
The point is I'm not so sure that M. Williams could make a lot better than Mason...

[PDXSpursFan]

A no brainer for me. The best 5 players should start:

Duncan
Manu
Parker
Jefferson
McDyess

No need for Manu to come/spark the bench anymore. Instead, Pop can simply always keep at least 2 out of the big 4 on the court. And of course bothe TD and Manu's minutes need to be managed. With that starting lineup a lot of times we can take an early lead and coast the rest of the game with the bench.

[Indazone]

Bonner!! Now starting at center!!!

[lotr1trekkie]

Manu off the bench with Hill, Blair/Ratliff, Finley & Bonner/Haipslip. IMO Pops wants the first unit to play SpursBall. The second unit will now have more freedom to run and gun. No more hold the lead until the #1 unit gets back. How about extending the lead!! At the end of each game it will be the BIG 3 and whoever works best with them to finish that particular game. Pop will mix and match.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Manu starting, lol

let's take baby steps and just hope he can stay off the IR for the whole season.

[SenorSpur]

I still wouldn't start Manu, we really wouldn't have anybody to create for the 2nd unit..

I don't like Roger creating for himself, so I think he's fine as a starter with other guys to get him shots..

I love the 2nd unit with Manu though..Hill-Ginobili is the best bench backcourt or even backup combo in general in the NBA, without any doubt, they're going to be a scary combination IMO..

That's the best point of all. Manu energizes the team, whenever he plays. However, you'd want him out there as chief playmaker for the 2nd unit. Of course, he'll be on the floor to close quarters and close games.

[xmas1997]

I'm starting to think that the failure of the play making/play offs Mason experiment could mean he became expendable...
It's indoubtable that, if we don't want a third playmaker, at least we need an insurance like a player that is normally a guard but when necessary can be the playmaker...Gino has been that player before, but we had Voughn too...and the year before we had Barry.
The point is I'm not so sure that M. Williams could make a lot better than Mason...

I think Williams is going to surprise a lot of us this year, inscluding me. I've read lots of good things about him on this site, his versitility at positions, his huge improvement offensively and defensively, and his familiarity with the Spurs system. He might surprise and become the 1st playmaker off the bench supplanting Manus' usual role.
Thus I tend to agree with TP and his starters for this year.
Besides, it's well known now from all the posts here and the reports from Pop that it's time Manu was the starter.

[mingus]

the last time i saw Bogans play I liked his defensive tenacity. he shoots the three at a respectable 35% for his career. Mason is too soft on the defensive end for my tastes. if Bogans can hit the three a bit more consistently this year (and he'll have a lot of wide open ones) i wonder if his ability to do that along with play defense would at least earn him Pop's consideration to take the starting spot from Mason, who i think will start at the start of the season.

i think the starting two-guard spot will be faught out by Bogans and Mason more than Mason and Manu. i think Manu coming of the bench is the best option with the starting lineup as good as it is this year.

[Lady M]

on Tony's facebook, we can see a little video with Manu before U2 show in Dallas
and Tony don't pass the ball to Manu :stirpot::rollin

[DaBears]

Pop, has already stated in previous interviews that he would like to have the option to start Ginobli and jefferson at same time given ginobli's health is not an issue..

My preferred starting five would be:

TP
MG
JR
TD
McD

Bench is much better than last yr more athletic and much better on offensive.....

[mexpurs21]

I agree with Parker, that should be the starting 5, but i dont think popovich will agree with him.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3540043&postcount=50

My thoughts on the matter haven't changed much in the last three months. Manu, even in limited minutes, can be the guy to elevate this bench to something special.

[Allanon]

I know it's been cliched to death but I'm gonna repeat it because it applies.

It's not who starts the game that matters, it's who ends it". Starting 5 is more about glory than effectiveness when it comes to teams like the Spurs/Lakers/Mavs. Coaches sometimes use it to get a player to be more effective. Much like Luke Walton starting over Lamar Odom the year before. It builds confidence in shittier players. Much like Bonner "He's a starter", improves his confidence.

End of a game, I'm sure Tony gets his wish with a Tony/Manu/Dick/Tim/Dice