Is Bonner being treated unfairly?..

[HarlemHeat37]

Is Matt Bonner really that bad of an option to have off the bench?..I've criticized him as well, and he definitely frustrated me a lot of the time..I wouldn't be able to handle seeing him as the starter again, or playing big minutes..I don't think we could be successful with Bonner playing big minutes..

Is he a bad option off the bench though?..I don't really see it..I'm all for it if he gets outplayed by Haislip and loses his minutes, but I think a lot of people are being too premature with that assumption..we've fallen in love with the dunks and potential of Haislip, and we've forgotten what Bonner can actually bring to this team..

The issue with Bonner has obviously been confidence, and that will never change..that's just him..he was also overmatched physically by the other team's starting big men..let's look at the positive though..

He's a wet shooter from pretty much anywhere on the floor..he ended the season shooting 44% from 3s, and was shooting around 50% at one point, which is just ridiculous for a big man..it's not like he was taking 1 attempt per game too, he was taking over 3 a game..the only 3 big men in this era to have had a season with a higher 3% point than Bonner have been Troy Murphy, Mehmet Okur, and Toni Kukoc..

If a trade comes, Bonner would be a main piece IMO, and I'd obviously pursue it..but if he remains on this team, would he really be a bad option to have off the bench against other bench players?..at least in situational moments..

[lefty]

No

[ElNono]

I rather give his minutes to Blair or Ian...

[HarlemHeat37]

Blair getting minutes is a given, but I feel like it's a good luxury to have a couple of big men that excel at different aspects..Blair is a banger, while Bonner could come in and give us a guy that can effectively stretch the defense and shoot a high % from the outside..

If Haislip can do it, I'm all for him taking Bonner's minutes..that isn't a given at all though..

Ian's competition is Ratliff IMO..

[Spurs Brazil]

I think Bonner is a good option for 10-15 minutes off the bench.

He knows the system and can shot I only don't want to see him finishing games

[angelbelow]

Nope.. hes a great 8th-10th type player. This year he might be pushed back to 12th or inactive.

[xtremesteven33]

Bonner cant rebound/defend/rotate/pass/dribble/steal/block/dunk/layup....anymore??

[ulosturedge]

Defense > Offense

He is a liability on defense. With all the offensive weapons we have right now we don't need much from him. I will be pissed if Pop continues to give him alot of minutes this year. All our championships were predicated around our defense. Fix the defense first and then make adjustments to spark our offense if necessary.


Bonner, mason, and finley are all defensive liabilities imo. These guys need to seriously get there minutes cut back. If our offense is suffering substantially then give these guys more minutes.

[lefty]

He had a good game in Boston last season
He had a good game

[CubanSucks]

I rather give his minutes to Blair or Ian...

Based off of what?

[CubanSucks]

I think Bonner is a good option for 10-15 minutes off the bench.

He knows the system and can shot I only don't want to see him finishing games

Exactly. The only time I don't want him in is in the 4th quarter of a tight game

[lefty]

Exactly. The only time I don't want him in is in the 4th quarter of a tight game
He made a big shot in Boston last season (before Mason's)
He made a big shot

[coyotes_geek]

There's always going to be room in the Popovich system for a 6-10 guy who can shoot the 3.

[elbamba]

Bonner will not be traded until the deadline. No team will want him except for one of those trades for an imaginary second round pick.

[EricB]

Defense > Offense

He is a liability on defense. With all the offensive weapons we have right now we don't need much from him. I will be pissed if Pop continues to give him alot of minutes this year. All our championships were predicated around our defense. Fix the defense first and then make adjustments to spark our offense if necessary.


Bonner, mason, and finley are all defensive liabilities imo. These guys need to seriously get there minutes cut back. If our offense is suffering substantially then give these guys more minutes.



Yeah lets keep perpetuating the myth that Bonner is this "pathetic" defender.

He's not Bruce Bowen, but he's not Jack freaking Haley either.

[lefty]

There's always going to be room in the Popovich system for a 6-10 guy who can shoot the 3.
Yeah, Pop will use him as a backup SG

[HarlemHeat37]

Bonner will not be traded until the deadline. No team will want him except for one of those trades for an imaginary second round pick.

expiring contract that can stretch the floor at a high level..if we need a trade, he can definitely be moved for value..

[thispego]

bonner couldnt miss for a stretch last year. but all these dumbass spurs fans think we should have big man rotation of duncan/duncan/duncan/mcdyess/duncan

[TIMMYD!]

Yeah we are being critical but if he can play about 10 minutes a game and hit some threes i'm cool with it

[The Truth #6]

His value might be letting his contract expire and then move in another direction in the off season. I understand he doesn't have a huge role with the team now, but before we dump him, it's probably important to ask: what does the team need?

I'm not sure what we would get for him that would be helpful other than a future draft pick. His knowledge of the System makes him somewhat useful for a 10th man. I suppose we could use another defender, but we need to see if Jefferson and Bogans can be the wing defenders the team needs. If Bogans sucks, then maybe pursue a trade. Nothing left to do now but wait for the players to gel...or not.

[Bruno]

Bonner was damn horrible during the playoffs, it puts a huge question mark on him.

[Manufan909]

If Duncan, McDyess, and Theo take up 60 minutes like I assume they will, I want Blair, Ian, and Haislip to fight over the other 36.

If it's a tight game, I want Duncan and Dyess.

If the opponents frontline is gigantic, I want Timmy and Theo.

If it's garbage time Blair, Ian, and Haislip should all be in.

I can't think of when Bonner should be in, unless the opposing frontline is horrible on O and leaving the paint on D. Only then is the Red Rocket truly valuable. But if Haislip can hit 3s around 37% of the time, the Red Rocket is well and truly fucked.

[lurker23]

Yes, Bonner always has been, and probably always will be, underrated by SpursTalk. Many on this board have a tendency to pour too much love on some players, while pouring too much hate on others; Bonner is one that they have chosen to hate.

Bonner isn't a great defender, but he showed some nice flashes of defense last year, and is better than many give him credit for. He's not a great rebounder, but on-the-whole statistically he's not bad either. He's probably not a starting center on a championship caliber team, but he's certainly a nice piece to have in the rotation.

[ElNono]

Based off of what?

Based on the fact that we already know what Bonner brings to the table and we need to see what the ceiling is on those other guys.

[ElNono]

Yeah lets keep perpetuating the myth that Bonner is this "pathetic" defender.

You forgot to mention you were being sarcastic. People might think you're actually being serious.



Bonner was damn horrible during the playoffs, it puts a huge question mark on him.

+1

[Interrohater]

I think "the Mad Bomber" can be used in a specialty role, definitely. When the Spurs are needing a three pointer, or they're going to be getting fouled as time is expiring. It'll be good to have another shooter on the floor, another threat so the defense can't hone in on Mason, or Manu, or Finley. While I would NOT want the ball in his hands to win the game, the opposing team will still have to respect his 3 point ability, opening up things for other players. I honestly think this will be his role, if he's not traded before the season is up.

[024]

I think "the Mad Bomber" can be used in a specialty role, definitely. When the Spurs are needing a three pointer, or they're going to be getting fouled as time is expiring. It'll be good to have another shooter on the floor, another threat so the defense can't hone in on Mason, or Manu, or Finley. While I would NOT want the ball in his hands to win the game, the opposing team will still have to respect his 3 point ability, opening up things for other players. I honestly think this will be his role, if he's not traded before the season is up.
teams don't really respect bonner's shot. if the spurs REALLY need a three, a lineup without bonner is more than possible of mason, ginobili, finley, jefferson, and duncan.

[thispego]

If Duncan, McDyess, and Theo take up 60 minutes like I assume they will, I want Blair, Ian, and Haislip to fight over the other 36.

If it's a tight game, I want Duncan and Dyess.

If the opponents frontline is gigantic, I want Timmy and Theo.

If it's garbage time Blair, Ian, and Haislip should all be in.

I can't think of when Bonner should be in, unless the opposing frontline is horrible on O and leaving the paint on D. Only then is the Red Rocket truly valuable. But if Haislip can hit 3s around 37% of the time, the Red Rocket is well and truly fucked.

lol, ian hasnt done shit but be injured and develop slowly

[thispego]

teams don't really respect bonner's shot. if the spurs REALLY need a three, a lineup without bonner is more than possible of mason, ginobili, finley, jefferson, and duncan.

:rolleyes you're retarded

[rayray2k8]

I thought this was gonna be about the Forwards on our team already abusing this poor bastard. :lol

[coyotes_geek]

lol, ian hasnt done shit but be injured and develop slowly

Believing that young guys who haven't proven anything at the NBA level are always going to better than veterans who can't dunk is one of the 10 Commandments to being a Spurs fan. Save us James White!!!

[phxspurfan]

Bonner or Mahinmi? I take Ian.

[coyotes_geek]

I rest my case.

[thispego]

Believing that young guys who haven't proven anything at the NBA level are always going to better than veterans who can't dunk is one of the 10 Commandments to being a Spurs fan. Save us James White!!!

:lol

[EricB]

Bonner or Mahinmi? I take Ian.

Yeah he's proven soooooo much.

[thispego]

all i know is that booner rained from upon for like 40 straight game last year until we signed gooden

[yavozerb]

Bonner was damn horrible during the playoffs, it puts a huge question mark on him.

Who wasn't horrible other than parker? The guy is not a starter, but he is a very good role player for 10-12 minutes a night.

[EricB]

Who wasn't horrible other than parker? The guy is not a starter, but he is a very good role player for 10-12 minutes a night.

Exactly right. When given and told a role at the beginning of the year that he will be a situational big and to let it fly in those minutes, he will be fine.

[Fabbs]

Exactly right. When given and told a role at the beginning of the year that he will be a situational big and to let it fly in those minutes, he will be fine.
Like a good coach would have done with him all along?
Yeah, it would/will be interesting to see what Bonner could do used properly.

[EricB]

Like a good coach would have done with him all along?
Yeah, it would/will be interesting to see what Bonner could do used properly.


Yeah shame the Spurs didn't keep around Bob Hill.

Kill your fucking self you pathetic taint.

[Brazil]

Who wasn't horrible other than parker? The guy is not a starter, but he is a very good role player for 10-12 minutes a night.

you have a point everybody has been horrible in this serie vs. Dallas. When you think that TP was almost our 2nd best rebounder during this serie... :bang

[spursfan1000]

I could go either way on this one, but it all comes down to how Blair and Haslip play during this season.

[SCdac]

Matt Bonner didn't make a single three pointer in 4 of the 5 playoff games against Dallas, going 3-13 in total. It may be unfair, but if he's not making three pointers, I don't think there should be alot of minutes waiting for him as a big in our system. What made Robert Horry so great was his intangibles, his defense, his steals, his occasional weak-side blocks, not just his three point shooting. We need guys who know how to win, and I'm not sure if Bonner is one of those guys. He's a hard worker and I like him off the bench, but him being an integral part of the rotation worries me, and I'm not just saying that after the fact, it worried me last season too.

[sonic21]

Bonner's D was decent against Dirk in the PO, he's not an "horrible" defender.

[Bruno]

Who wasn't horrible other than parker? The guy is not a starter, but he is a very good role player for 10-12 minutes a night.

Bonner was the worst of the worst.

And other players being horrible in the Mavs series also draw question marks about their ability for the playoffs (it's the case for Mason). It also surely isn't a coincidence if half of the team that played against Mavs is gone.

[Bruno]

During the last playoffs, 140 players have played more than 60 minutes.
Among these 140 players, only 2 have a worse PER than Bonner.

[Brazil]

Bonner's D was decent against Dirk in the PO, he's not an "horrible" defender.

+1 he is horrible on one on one but for the rest he is defending decently.

[024]

:rolleyes you're retarded
and you lack reading comprehension. don't tell me if the spurs are down by 3 with under 30 seconds, bonner won't be the odd man out.

[CubanSucks]

and you lack reading comprehension. don't tell me if the spurs are down by 3 with under 30 seconds, bonner won't be the odd man out.

That's completely fucking irrelevant! No shit, if we're talking about the last 30 sec., he wouldn't be taking the shot. As for the other 47 minutes?...

No one in hear is saying the guy is starter worthy, but it seems like everyone wants a team with 12 guys averaging 20-10

[yavozerb]

During the last playoffs, 140 players have played more than 60 minutes.
Among these 140 players, only 2 have a worse PER than Bonner.

I agree with you 100% on his playoff peformance from last year bruno...With that said I would like to see a game from the regular season where bonner carried the spurs team to victory by himself. It didn't happen, this guy depends on others to raise his level of play. If his team peforms poorly then there is probably a 99% chance that bonner will also struggle. Bonner is your prototypical below average big man with an above average motor..

[The Truth #6]

Bonner didn't respond well when Gooden arrived last year. It will interesting to see how he reacts to: Ian, Antonio, Haislip, and Blair all joining the team this year. It's a contract year and I'm sure he wants to try and earn another one but there's no proof that he'll be great in some small 10 mpg role. If anything he could come in and start jacking up horrible shots a la Beno, NVE, and a host of other players who tried to overdo the limited minutes they received.

[byrontx]

A confident Bonner is a huge asset. He has talent. A Bonner full of self-doubt and busy in his head needs to go.

He started passing up his shots and looked terrible at the end of the season but for a while ther he was showing his potential.

[EricB]

Bonner was the worst of the worst.

And other players being horrible in the Mavs series also draw question marks about their ability for the playoffs (it's the case for Mason). It also surely isn't a coincidence if half of the team that played against Mavs is gone.


The guy is gonna be a 10 minute a game guy and most likely squeezed out of the playoffs.

Making the guy out to be the gringo osama bi laden and trying to trade him every five seconds is freaking stupid.

[Fabbs]

The guy is gonna be a 10 minute a game guy and most likely squeezed out of the playoffs.

Making the guy out to be the gringo osama bi laden and trying to trade him every five seconds is freaking stupid.
You babbled the same thing last year about your idol Michael and yet Mrs. Finley had him in 30 a game, again.

[Bruno]

The guy is gonna be a 10 minute a game guy and most likely squeezed out of the playoffs.

Making the guy out to be the gringo osama bi laden and trying to trade him every five seconds is freaking stupid.

Well, I'm not making Bonner the "gringo osama bi laden". You should confuse me with someone else.

My point is just that:
- For vets players with Spurs, it's all about the playoffs.
- Bonner has been horrible in last year playoffs.

So I wonder if Bonner can be good in the playoffs with a more limited role than last year and with a better team around him ?

I don't have the answer at that question.

[Thompson]

I joke about Bonner occasionally because a lot of people can't stand him for some reason, but I actually like him. He seems like a good guy and is a great 3 point specialist. I don't see why other teams wouldn't want him in a trade, I think he's a good trade asset if they decide they need to address some flaw in the team.

Also, now that Duncan has slimmed down, Bonner might be the biggest guy on our team.

[ElNono]

The guy is gonna be a 10 minute a game guy and most likely squeezed out of the playoffs.

Making the guy out to be the gringo osama bi laden and trying to trade him every five seconds is freaking stupid.

He has an expiring contract (IIRC). There's nothing stupid about trying to trade him.

[EricB]

Well, I'm not making Bonner the "gringo osama bi laden". You should confuse me with someone else.

My point is just that:
- For vets players with Spurs, it's all about the playoffs.
- Bonner has been horrible in last year playoffs.

So I wonder if Bonner can be good in the playoffs with a more limited role than last year and with a better team around him ?

I don't have the answer at that question.


I didn't say you were.

Was just re stating a position.

[EricB]

He has an expiring contract (IIRC). There's nothing stupid about trying to trade him.

You trade him for what.

Another shooting guard for small forward?

Please.

Theres nothing out there that you'd get in equal value.

[TheSullyMonster]

No one in hear is saying the guy is starter worthy, but it seems like everyone wants a team with 12 guys averaging 20-10

I wouldn't mind.

[EricB]

You babbled the same thing last year about your idol Michael and yet Mrs. Finley had him in 30 a game, again.


Miss the whole Ginobili missing 80% of the season fucktard?


Root for another goddamn team.

[diego]

i dont think bonner is being treated unfairly. Many of us like him despite his flaws. The problem is, no matter how hard he tries, he makes bad mistakes and is inconsistent. If bonner were a consistently bad player, he would have more fans (a la scalabrine- goofy guys that try hard are easy to root for). but he has flashes where he plays good, and he plays a lot of minutes with the best PF of all time next to him so you have to wonder, what does this guy need to consistently play well?

I dont think its unfair. He got a great chance to cement his place in the rotation and he didnt produce consistently. he still gets lost on rotations and he still bricks the occasional open shot despite being a shooting specialist. and then when a new player was brought in, instead of taking the motivation he lost his confidence. Dont see anything unfair in any part of that situation.

Now of course if you were expecting a double double with 2 blocks you could call that unfair, but I think that is more stupid than unfair.

[ElNono]

You trade him for what.

Another shooting guard for small forward?

Please.

Theres nothing out there that you'd get in equal value.

There's always something out there. Maybe something along the lines of a 3rd string PG and a lottery pick.

[EricB]

There's always something out there. Maybe something along the lines of a 3rd string PG and a lottery pick.

Pass me some of what your smoking.

BTW, you trade a three point shooting bigman for a 3rd string point guard that can be signed out fo the D League?

Really?

I mean, really!?

[Fabbs]

Miss the whole Ginobili missing 80% of the season fucktard?


Root for another goddamn team.
Miss the whole Mason at SG while GNob was out?
Miss the whole Bowen outshooting your homo crush Finley while not playing sieve D to boot?

You're a Spurs opponents dream come true.
We don't know how Bonner will do this years playoffs. Shut your piehole about the simple idea of floating his expiring for a trade offer.

[DesignatedT]

honestly, i would be perfectly content with just releasing bonner straight up. this shits about winning not treating some choke job fairly.

[ulosturedge]

Yeah lets keep perpetuating the myth that Bonner is this "pathetic" defender.

He's not Bruce Bowen, but he's not Jack freaking Haley either.

Yeah he's not a center either.

[mookie2001]

no

[barbacoataco]

Bonner is weak player. But the Spurs could be keeping his expiring contract to make rook for Tiago. Their salaries and roster spot look like a pretty good match.

As far as this year. I wish Bonner could be a dependable 10-12 mpg player with the high 3%. But in the end I don't think he has what it takes. If Haislip outplays him, he should get those minutes. The Spurs need a more athletic vibe at the C/PF to compete with the best teams in the NBA.

[timvp]

Am I the only one who has a flashback to the Mavs series every time I see a training camp picture or video featuring Bonner? Him falling flat on his face in his first true test with the Spurs isn't something easy to forget.

That said, I've been of the opinion that the Spurs should hold onto him. I would never trust him in a clutch situation because he's proven he can't handle pressure but there will be some situations where he'll be useful. Bonner plays well in the pick-and-roll, especially when guarded by an immobile big. He can also spread the court against a zone or if Duncan is getting doubled by the opposing big.

If he can recover from last season's disaster of a playoffs and learn to play a spot role off the bench, Bonner could be an asset. If he is mentally damaged by his playoff failure or can't find his stroke without consistent playing time, Bonner will probably be viewed as filler contract #1 come the trade deadline.

[coyotes_geek]

The luxury of depth. If Bonner isn't producing, he doesn't have to keep playing. Unlike last year.

[NRHector]

Bonner will be an excelent option from 0.01 sec. to 0.05 sec. of playing time

[ElNono]

Pass me some of what your smoking.

BTW, you trade a three point shooting bigman for a 3rd string point guard that can be signed out fo the D League?

Really?

I mean, really!?

Nick Van Exel, Anthony Carter, Jack Vaughn, Beno Udrih...
Those have been all our 3rd string PGs, so obviously there's something you know that the Spurs FO doesn't, since they can't seem to be able to pick up a 3rd string PG from the D League, but you can... :rolleyes

But you're missing the point. The 3rd string PG fills a spot in our current roster where we don't have a lot of depth, but it's also the filler in the trade. If Bonner is going to play scared like he did in the playoffs, then I rather have a 1st round pick to trade next season.

Then again, the FO might be keeping him as insurance. If halfway through the season we have an injury, they can trade him then for a piece to replace the injured guy. This could actually work well, since some teams might want to shred more salary if they already know they won't be competing for the title and want to be in next year's sweepstakes for the free agent star players, so you might get a steal at that point.

[ElNono]

Bonner will be an excelent option from 0.01 sec. to 0.05 sec. of playing time

Human victory cigar a la Jack Vaughn??? :lol

[mfanatic]

There's always going to be room in the Popovich system for a 6-10 guy who can shoot the 3.

He's not 6'10, if he was, he would be a hell of a player. He's 6-7, 6'8 max.

[ss1986v2]

He's not 6'10, if he was, he would be a hell of a player. He's 6-7, 6'8 max.

bonner came in at 6' 8.5" barefoot, and 6' 10" in shoes at the predraft camp.

[024]

That's completely fucking irrelevant! No shit, if we're talking about the last 30 sec., he wouldn't be taking the shot. As for the other 47 minutes?...

No one in hear is saying the guy is starter worthy, but it seems like everyone wants a team with 12 guys averaging 20-10
did i mention anything about bonner not deserving to be on the team? you also lack reading comprehension. look at the post i was responding to. my response looks pretty relevant to me.

I think "the Mad Bomber" can be used in a specialty role, definitely. When the Spurs are needing a three pointer, or they're going to be getting fouled as time is expiring. It'll be good to have another shooter on the floor, another threat so the defense can't hone in on Mason, or Manu, or Finley.
i believe my original response said a mason, ginobili, finley, jefferson, and duncan lineup would be better than having bonner in the game during this time.

[mountainballer]

That said, I've been of the opinion that the Spurs should hold onto him. I would never trust him in a clutch situation because he's proven he can't handle pressure but there will be some situations where he'll be useful.


I guess we all agree that we never ever want to see Bonner play a single PO minute for the Spurs again. right?
that's where the dilemma starts.
in this case he must not be higher than #9 or #10 in the regular season rotation. but if you don't want that he is the next big in the rotation in case an injury happens to one of the top 3 bigs, you need another guy (who you trust more) and IMO this player should already have got some quality minutes in the regular season. so this guy also needs to be ahead of Bonner in the RS rotation, which pushes Bonner to #11 or #12, playing only garbage minutes.
but don't we want this garbage minutes taken by guys, who need it for their development (namely Ian and Haislip) and who might have a future with the team that Bonner doesn't have?
hope I could make my point somehow comprehensible. I agree that there will be situations and match ups in the regular season, when Bonner in fact is useful. but IMO he just doesn't fit in the bigger picture and I don't see the niche for him, WITHOUT hamper the development of the team.
best case will be, Bonner gets some regular minutes in November and December, to keep the minutes of Tim and Dice low and while guys like Blair, Haislip and Ian adjust to the team (and the NBA). in January he should lose most of his minutes to the mentioned guys and then get traded at deadline. either will one of the other bigs have developed and impressed enough, that there isn't a need to boost the frontline (then a quality back up wing might be the target), or they need to package for a big, who is good enough to take the #3 spot in the PO.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I think he's been treated unfairly.

OK, it's true that he's not a starting caliber big for a championship team. It's true he can't really handle pressure and that he disappointed in his first playoffs with Spurs. No one can deny that.

However, the premise that some guy who has never done anything in the NBA, like Haislip, Mahinmi and even Blair, will jump straight into the action and be superior to a NBA veteran, is something I don't find realistic. We know what Bonner can do and we know what he can't do but we know nothing about these younger guys, they're like blank sheets , there are no bad memories of failiure that we remember, but it doesn't really make them better. By all means, give them a chance to develop and eventually become good and claim minutes, but disregarding a player who has, whithout a doubt, proven to be a NBA player, is unfair. If we take Bonner's career as a benchmark, who thinks Mahinmi, Haislip, Hairston or Williams will have a better one? I think the odds are against these young guys.

Bonner is limited, but it's not his fault he was forced in the situation he was against the Mavs. Used in his proper role, as the 3rd/4th big, he'll provide quality minutes for any NBA team.

[SenorSpur]

About the only way Bonner is treated unfairly is forcing him into playing more than 10-12 minutes per game. His knowledge of the Spurs system and his tenure with the team automatically puts him ahead of the newcomers - for now.

However having a veteran, 3-pt shooting big, who is a regular season wonder, yet fails to deliver during playoff time isn't a luxury.

I fully expect either Ian, Blair and even Haislip to eat into his minutes - eventually. In fact, I'd be disappointed if they didn't.

[timvp]

a la Beno Udrih(who is, not surprisingly, a very good player for the Kings now):lol

Yeah so good the Kings drafted and traded for point guards this summer and would salary dump him in a second if any team were dumb enough to eat his contract.

[timvp]

I think you're still angry that he lights up George Hill... or Tony Parker for that matter. But who doesn't light up Tony Parker outside of Luke Ridnour? Oh wait...

Good one. The Kings drafted and traded for point guards and are openly shopping Beno because timvp is angry. Well done.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Beno a good player for the Kings? :rollin

And you have the audacity to tell people they don't watch much basketball? Unbelievable!

[timvp]

Who else would they take? They drafted the best player available. That hardly proves anything. There's one thing that's proof and that's the stats. He shot 46% from the field last year with 11PPG and 5 assists. If the Spurs front office wasn't full of overrated fuck-ups they would have kept him instead of dealing him for nothing. Now, they wasted a first round pick on a guy they're not even sure can play point guard and played no meaningful minutes in the playoffs last season. Good going.

Make no mistake about it.

Beno Udrih > George Hill.
Sounds like someone needs a tissue. :violin

[polandprzem]

:dramaquee

[mountainballer]

a la Beno Udrih(who is, not surprisingly, a very good player for the Kings now).

oh, this is a surprise! especially for all Kings fans. they will ask when he turned into this "very good player". this morning ?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Do you have the audacity to say Beno Udrih is not better than George Hill? Moreover; do you have the audacity to say giving Beno Udrih away for nothing, then drafting a player(in the first round) to replace him, who they are not sure can play PG, and they couldn't rely on in front of JACQUE VAUGHN is a good move?

Yes Hill>Beno, especially considring their contracts. Hill will spend the next couple of seasons being the back up of an all star PG on a championship caliber team, whereas Beno will be the back up of a rookie and constantly on the trading block.

Beno was traded away because the Spurs wanted to get under the lux tax and they did, but that might be a bit too deep for you.

George Hill has the tools and mindset to become a very good pro and contribute to a championship, while Beno will always be remembered being scared shitless by a 50 year old Lindsay Hunter and missing training camps because of a broken nail or something. So, yea, rightfully the Spurs dumped the dead weight and drafted a guy with the better tools to be their back up PG, nothing wrong with that.

Moreover, this is a bit of a reality check - the fact that you disagree with timvp, mountainballer and me clearly shows everything's right in the world, I'd be concerned for my sanity if you agreed with me.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Really? How is that exactly? Because of timvp's strong retort of emoticons? Or mountainballer's terrible attempt at sarcastic wit?

Nope, because of your posting history.

[Muser]

Bonner of the bench for 10 minutes a night sounds good to me.

[mountainballer]

What I find funny is RARELY and I mean RARELY does anyone ever challenge any of the points that I make. It's basically just mindless, terrible attempts at shit talking.

:lol this must be the KBP sydrome.
what kind of challenge do you want?
you really need an argument, why Beno is not "a very good player" as you tell us?
your claims are just absurd.

btw. challenge......
you try to use stats to back up your points. well....
a A/TO ratio of 2.1 is NOT good for a PG. to tell you the awful truth, it's not even average.
6.0 APG per 40 minutes is NOT good for a PG. it's average at best.
a 3pt shooting of 31% is NOT good.
1.15 PPS is NOT good. 0.87 PPP is NOT good. it's ugly.
2.6 FTs per 40 minutes is NOT good.
11 PPG for a starting PG is NOT good, especially not when considering that he is neither an above average playmaker, nor does he defend at all.
sorry, but there isn't a single stat that would indicate that Beno is at least an average player. so, how to discuss with someone who claims this is a "very good player"? how do you challenge total nonsense?

[Sam]

Matt is working out with the first team right now. They are expecting 15-20 minutes from him. The Spurs have already talked to his agent about a new contract. Not saying they wouldn't trade him but right now doesn't appear to be a possibility. Pop loves Matt.

[Mel_13]

Matt is working out with the first team right now. They are expecting 15-20 minutes from him. The Spurs have already talked to his agent about a new contract. Not saying they wouldn't trade him but right now doesn't appear to be a possibility. Pop loves Matt.

I have a feeling that this little tidbit of inside info will provoke quite a reaction.

:toast

[Bruno]

What Olivier Pheulpin (French journalist who follows Spurs in SA) writes in today newspaper is that Bonner will start with Duncan, McDyess will be the first big from the bench and Mahinmi/Blair will fight for the rest of the minutes.

However, I guess nothing is set in stone and there is a whole training camp to change that.

[benefactor]

It's good that Bonner is starting to start the season. That way it can be understood early on that he has no business being the starter.

[Spurs Brazil]

What Olivier Pheulpin (French journalist who follows Spurs in SA) writes in today newspaper is that Bonner will start with Duncan, McDyess will be the first big from the bench and Mahinmi/Blair will fight for the rest of the minutes.

However, I guess nothing is set in stone and there is a whole training camp to change that.

DAMN

That would be bad

I'm fine with Bonner off the bench, but I don't want to see him starting.

[Muser]

Bonner starting

Fuuuuuuccckkkk

[coyotes_geek]

Relax people. Bonner's not going to start.

[KuntryDude]

Pop would definitely give Boner plenty of PT. He obviously sees some sort of hidden talent in these weak links and will continue to give them big minutes until it's exposed (whenever that may be)...........remember Danny Ferry???????


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/244/535919566_33d8211661_o.jpg

[Dr Cox]

i could see bonner starting at the first of the season..and he will be playing alot with the spurs resting duncan and mcdyess ....

pop loves how he spreads the floor...so i think he will play alot more than people think...especially at first..

[anakha]

:lmao at Spurstrodamus carrying the banner for a player who is currently bitching about his team. Misery loves company, I guess.

[Agloco]

What I find funny is RARELY and I mean RARELY does anyone ever challenge any of the points that I make. It's basically just mindless, terrible attempts at shit talking.

Kinda hard to challenge nonsensical bullshit.....

Anyone who would argue that Bonner = Jefferson based on PER is just being dumb. Straight up dumb. If you insist on going that route though...... Beno's PER wasn't much better than Hill's (12.35 to 11.6). So what now?

Apparently in your world that's worth the extra 5 million he's getting this year.

You also keep pulling Scola out of your ass. He's your sole exhibit as to why the Spurs FO fucked up and continue to be fuckups. It's quite lame really since he's done nothing of note in this league, yet there you are with your raging hardon for him. :lobt:x4 and the fact that the Spurs are still contenders is all the evidence you need as to how the FO is doing.

Try skydiving with lead bricks attached to your ankles or perhaps scuba diving in a shark tank. The world would be a better place for it.

[Chieflion]

Bonner can just play spot minutes. Seriously, what the heck in the argument about anyway?

[timvp]

Matt is working out with the first team right now. They are expecting 15-20 minutes from him. The Spurs have already talked to his agent about a new contract. Not saying they wouldn't trade him but right now doesn't appear to be a possibility. Pop loves Matt.


What Olivier Pheulpin (French journalist who follows Spurs in SA) writes in today newspaper is that Bonner will start with Duncan, McDyess will be the first big from the bench and Mahinmi/Blair will fight for the rest of the minutes.

However, I guess nothing is set in stone and there is a whole training camp to change that.

Thanks for the info.

Yeah, on Day 1 of training camp, Bonner was playing with the rest of the starters (Big 3 + RJ). I'm 99% sure this is a move by Pop try to keep Bonner's confidence at a high level. He knows Bonner's game is all about confidence so he has to be gentle with him if he wants any production out of him at all this season.

Additionally, McDyess is well-known for using the early part of the season to get back in shape. He takes off the whole summer to help preserve his legs for the end of the NBA season.

Those facts added together will likely result in Bonner playing in a starting role for the time being. However, eventually Bonner will be demoted to the bench and McDyess will rise the starting level. I expect the move will take place at the end of the exhibition season at the latest.

Pop knows Bonner would be worthless if he makes Bonner uncomfortable or unsure in himself. We'll see if this move helps Bonner become a decent bench player.

[OrEmuN]

All I want to say is that I am disappointed that after 5 pages, no one has posted the famous Matt Bonner crossover move yet. :lol

[ElNono]

Looks like this year's Bonner is last year's Finley...

When everybody here were saying last summer that "I'll take Finley as a 10-15 minute guy off the bench", he ended up playing 20+ minutes, as a starter, bricking everything and getting abused by guys like Durant, all the while Hill, who is 10x a better defender, was warming up the bench.

Are we really going to have Ian, Blair and Haislip warming up the bench while Dampier abuses Bonner? Have we learned anything from last season?

[mookie2001]

Am I the only one who has a flashback to the Mavs series every time I see a training camp picture or video featuring Bonner?im the same way with manu

[timvp]

Looks like this year's Bonner is last year's Finley...

When everybody here were saying last summer that "I'll take Finley as a 10-15 minute guy off the bench", he ended up playing 20+ minutes, as a starter, bricking everything and getting abused by guys like Durant, all the while Hill, who is 10x a better defender, was warming up the bench.

Are we really going to have Ian, Blair and Haislip warming up the bench while Dampier abuses Bonner? Have we learned anything from last season?

Thankfully, there is a difference. Pop absolutely loves Finley. He has a long history of finding room for Finley no matter what.

Bonner is a different case. Pop went with him last year basically because he didn't have a better option. He's benched Bonner before and eventually benched him in the playoffs. I don't think Pop will play Bonner any more than he has to as long as he has options.

And really, if you read between the lines this summer, Duncan all but blamed lst season's struggles on Bonner. He talked about needing more size and more toughness in the middle. Pop had similar comments.

I would be shocked if Bonner starts as long as McDyess is healthy. I'd be shocked if Bonner plays 25 minutes per game regardless. On the other hand, I was laughing last summer at the people who thought that Pop wouldn't overplay Finley.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i dunno how you can say bonner is treated unfairly

do you SEE any other fkn club out there throwin 3m a season to him? NO.

[Brazil]

Great ! Bonner starting.. finally our dream come true fo the beginning of the season: mason running the point to launch the bonner rocket for a dunk parade or to pass the ball to finley for an open 3.

[Blackjack]

Probably better suited for this thread..


Ya know, I wouldn't be shocked if Bonner did start some games to start the season.

Obviously you want to throw the best starting-5 you've got out there night-in and night-out, but the age of the team and the length of the season could dictate otherwise.

Let's take the Manu argument for example.

I've always believed his 6th-man role was the best way to utilize him. Not because he's any less effective one way or the other, but because of how it effects the flow of the game for those around him.

You let Tony and Tim do their thing to start and get into a nice rhythm, and the lesser players thrive off of their doubles and penetration. Once they've got the game going into a decent flow, you unleash Manu to come in and pick up where one or both left off.

Manu now comes in as the focal point and gets more touches to find his rhythm. By that time, he'll usually be playing with role players that have already broken a sweat and found a rhythm in the first-unit and/or reserves that will only be made better by Manu's presence. Having Manu to come in and face most teams' second-unit is just such a luxury. Not only because of what he can do individually but he almost gives the Spurs' second-unit the confidence of playing with the proverbial playground bully. He's like the Danny Almonte of the NBA. -- He can't possibly be eligible to play with those guys, can he? -- And let's not forget, it's a whole lot easier to monitor and limit a players' minutes coming off the bench; a point that's surely never been lost on Pop.

So that's been my rationale, but there's something that Pop said last year that I just can't get out of my head.

When Pop stated that Manu would be starting in 'perpetuity', I really think that was his intention. Pop wanted his best players on the floor and Manu on the bench wasn't really a preference but a ploy of necessity to create a decent bench.

There's another reason Manu starting would make sense for Pop, as well.

Playing with the starting-5 not only puts his best players on the court, but it also gives Manu a less taxing role playing alongside better talent that he doesn't have to do as much for. Sure, he's a playmaker by nature and is going to end up being one no matter whom he's on the floor with, but he'd also be allowed to play off the ball and camp out at the 3-point line more often that would only help to ease the physical burden.

So it's really an eye-of-the-beholder-type situation.

Is it better on Manu's body to have him coming off the bench playing a more taxing role, but probably fewer cumulative minutes?

Or, is it better for Manu to start in a less taxing role, with probably a fewer more cumulative minutes?

That's really the context of how all of the decisions on roles will be made on this team.

Should 'Dyess probably start, at least from a pure basketball standpoint?

Absolutely.

Does that mean he will and that it will be in perpetuity?

Well, given his age, history of knee problems and importance to the team..

Probably not.

So, it wouldn't surprise me if the Spurs did actually start the year with Bonner for a stretch. The familiarity is there and with so many new faces and the Spurs looking to steal minutes in order to keep an older team fresh and ready for a title-run... It's something that, well, let's just say, is not out of the realm.

I can't say I'd be real enthusiastic about seeing Bonner starting but I wouldn't be too worried about it during the regular season when you're not going to be seeing the elite teams of the league on a nightly basis. The team was good enough to hold the second-seed for a good part of the year before the injuries really caught up to them and if they can buy a little time with Bonner, or any of their younger guys for that matter, I'd be all for it.

As the regular season comes to an end, the rotation will shorten, the chemistry will be honed, and the roles -- fingers crossed -- should all be defined.

Bonner and the guys that helped to buy a little time will have served their role, and the Spurs will, hopefully, be all the better for it..

[ElNono]

Well Bonner as a starter would obviously be horrible, so let's hope something different comes up..it's still really early in training camp though, so there will be plenty of chances for Haislip, Ian, and Blair to show their stuff..

Well, I personally don't think that him being a starter is the horrible part. I think the really cruel part is if he plays over 10-15 minutes...

[Blackjack]

If Bonner becomes a token starter similar to how Rasho became, where they try to keep him confident and allow him to absorb a couple of minutes in order to keep someone like 'Dyess fresh, than it's not so horrible.

If it became a Fin-like scenario, well, that'd be more of an abortion than horrible.. But if he were just to say play starter minutes, that'd definitely be horrible.

The Spurs have to take a long-term approach and if it means playing Bonner, Haislip, Blair or Mahinmi more minutes than they probably warrant early in the season, I've really got no problem with it. Like I said before, this team has enough talent to capture the second or third seed without having to risk running their older players into the ground..

In terms of Harlem's OP, I pretty much agree.

Bonner is what he is and he's fine if you're asking him to do what he can do. He's a regular-season, situational player that got cast in a starter's role he had no business in. If he's at the bottom of your rotation and not counted upon night-in and night-out, he's an asset to have; definitely more of a luxury-item than a necessity.

[jb4g]

I think there is much worse options to have at the 9th or 10th spot on your squad. And as said before, there is always room in pops offensive scheme for a big guy that can knock down the three, proven by the fact that everyone of his three pointers last season came off an assist. He has a place in a limited role as long as he is willing to let it fly. If he becomes hesitant, then he gets buried on the bench.

[Spurs Brazil]

Thankfully, there is a difference. Pop absolutely loves Finley. He has a long history of finding room for Finley no matter what.

Do you think Pop will do it again?

Knowing Pop I think there's a chance of Finley starting in place of Mason Jr.

[thispego]

<------------ preparing to laugh at all you chodes when you start worshipping bonners taint when he leads the nba in 3pt% for half the year again.

[Agloco]

If you can call making 3.25 million in about 9 months time unfair then, sure.......

[BillMc]

Bonner is a useful rotation guy and a big who can hit the three. He stepped up and played as well as he could last year. He will be an asset coming off the bench as it gives us a guy with starter's experience to add depth. People (in my opinion) are way too hard on him. This year he'll be very valuable in limited minutes.

[MaNu4Tres]

People on here really are hilarious. Hey guys Bonner had the same PER as Jefferson. O M G guys that makes Jefferson so over paid. Hey you dumbass Jefferson had Ramon Sessions and Charlie Villanueva as his main players next to him in time for battle. Bonner had Tim Duncan and Tony Parker.

Hmmm I wonder why their PER was the same. Lets see Jefferson teaming up with Sessions and Villanueva or Bonner teaming up with TD and TP? Who has the better support? Go google Hollinger's picture and jerk off you statistical idiot.

[MaNu4Tres]

Yes, it does. I'm glad you see things my way.

Glad you ignored everyting else that made your argument laughable.

[Rummpd]

Nice guy but ship him out of here as soon as possible along with Finley please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wildbill2u]

Is Matt Bonner really that bad of an option to have off the bench?..I've criticized him as well, and he definitely frustrated me a lot of the time..I wouldn't be able to handle seeing him as the starter again, or playing big minutes..I don't think we could be successful with Bonner playing big minutes..

Is he a bad option off the bench though?..I don't really see it..I'm all for it if he gets outplayed by Haislip and loses his minutes, but I think a lot of people are being too premature with that assumption..we've fallen in love with the dunks and potential of Haislip, and we've forgotten what Bonner can actually bring to this team..

The issue with Bonner has obviously been confidence, and that will never change..that's just him..he was also overmatched physically by the other team's starting big men..let's look at the positive though..

He's a wet shooter from pretty much anywhere on the floor..he ended the season shooting 44% from 3s, and was shooting around 50% at one point, which is just ridiculous for a big man..it's not like he was taking 1 attempt per game too, he was taking over 3 a game..the only 3 big men in this era to have had a season with a higher 3% point than Bonner have been Troy Murphy, Mehmet Okur, and Toni Kukoc..

If a trade comes, Bonner would be a main piece IMO, and I'd obviously pursue it..but if he remains on this team, would he really be a bad option to have off the bench against other bench players?..at least in situational moments..

I know it is a short sample, but Bonner is playing pretty damn good this year and has improved his defense and rebounding. He's not Kareem or Shaq--but he can hit the 3.

In 21 mpg, he is averaging 8.2 ppg with 42.6 % 3pt and 5 rpg. He deserved some props.

[The Truth #6]

Bonner has occasionally tried to get tougher this year. So far its been random, sporadic, and comical. But it's a good direction.

[angelbelow]

Bonner has occasionally tried to get tougher this year. So far its been random, sporadic, and comical. But it's a good direction.

I agree, there are some moments where he plays tough.

I think that hes too laid back. Always joking around during interviews. I think some of that carries over onto court with him and that's why he doesnt have that mean streak. Im sure he has it in him, he just needs to bring it with him on court.

[benefactor]

He seems to be embracing his bench role...which is a very good thing. He is scoring in a variety of ways and he is competing on defense. He is even fighting for rebounds now.

Many have said, and I agree, that Bonner can be effective when in the right lineups when he is hitting his shots. As long as we don't wind up with the same situation we had last year I think he will be fine. We have enough options now that we don't have to worry about long stints of him and bad match ups that expose his physical shortcomings.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Bonner is what he is. His lack of foot speed makes him a defensive liability. But everything else is pretty good. And you can't fault his effort and hustle. He definitely stretches and challenges the other team's defenses.

[4>0rings]

:lmao

[HarlemHeat37]

I guess the answer was no, he wasn't being treated unfairly LOL..it's sad, I really like the guy, it looks like the playoffs is something he'll never get over..

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Bonner can't play at this level. Sorry but he's a huge liability - he doesn't hit the 3 anymore. he passes the ball on open looks and he can't guard the bigs of the other team.

Just being fair here - When Bonner is in the game the Spurs plays with 4 people.

[cherylsteele]

Based off of what?
Based on it they couldn't be any worse than Bonner is now.