Hey Whinehole

[Nbadan]

Looks like the Democrats have finally had enough of the party of NO!

Harkin: No place for GOP at Senate health-bill table
By Tom Beaumont • [email protected] • October 1, 2009



Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin said today Republicans will not be at the table when the Senate merges the health-care bills from two committees before sending one to the floor.

Harkin, a Democrat and chairman of one of the committees, also said any bill that passes Congress will include a government-run insurance option for Americans to buy.

“We will have a bill on the president’s desk before Christmas, a health-reform bill. It will have a lot of good stuff in it. It will have a lot of prevention and wellness programs in there that I’ve been fighting for,” Harkin told reporters in a morning conference call. “And it will have a public option.”

“The question of if it doesn’t isn’t even an option,” he added.

Harkin was elected chairman of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee this month after the death of Sen. Edward M. Kennedy. Harkin had a lead role in writing prevention language in the health-care bill passed by that panel in July.

Asked whether Republicans would be at the table when Harkin’s committee’s bill is merged with legislation pending in the Senate Finance Committee, Harkin said no.

“No, this will be a proposal by the Democrats to bring a bill on the floor. And that’s what I have said before, that the people of this country — I keep saying — the people of this country pretty overwhelmingly elected Barack Obama last fall and to make changes,” he said. “The people of this country overwhelmingly elected Democrats to the House and Senate.”

“We should be proposing the changes to be made,” he added.


Link (http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2009/10/01/harkin-sees-no-gop-at-senate-bill-table/)

Let's hope Harkin keeps his word..

[clambake]

this country is fucked.

[Winehole23]

Wow. Freezing the GOP out of reconciliation and adding public option back in. Bold.

[Winehole23]

Leaky drawers in 3, 2, 1...

[Nbadan]

:lol

[mogrovejo]

Meh... when is Harkin up for re-election? I bet it's not in 10 or even in 12. Wait for the elections in VA and NJ; if things don't go well for Democrats, you'll see how many of them are willing to go the "I'm a proud liberal" route before Christmas.

Btw, I think he's giving a strong ammunition to the Republicans, with the "the people of this country pretty overwhelmingly elected Barack Obama last fall" reasoning. The bi-partisanship stuff was a very big part of the Obama/Dem platform. Very easy grounds to play the victim here.

[Wild Cobra]

Wow. Freezing the GOP out of reconciliation and adding public option back in. Bold.
Like I keep saying, if the democrats keep up their tactics, the public will have a severe backlash against them in 2010!

[clambake]

Like I keep saying, if the democrats keep up their tactics, the public will have a severe backlash against them in 2010!

you should get the unions involved.

......and you owe us money.

[Nbadan]

If the Democrats kept this up, they wouldn't need lobbyist money to get re-elected..

[MannyIsGod]

Meh... when is Harkin up for re-election? I bet it's not in 10 or even in 12. Wait for the elections in VA and NJ; if things don't go well for Democrats, you'll see how many of them are willing to go the "I'm a proud liberal" route before Christmas.

Btw, I think he's giving a strong ammunition to the Republicans, with the "the people of this country pretty overwhelmingly elected Barack Obama last fall" reasoning. The bi-partisanship stuff was a very big part of the Obama/Dem platform. Very easy grounds to play the victim here.

That 2nd point might be valid had the GOP not been playing victim the day after the November elections. The Tea Parties and Town Halls of 09 are all beautiful examples of this.

I think the reason nothing substantial has been done so far is just because the Democrats have been catering to the fear of our point. Enough is enough, they got elected to govern so its about time they got down to do some governing.

[Nbadan]

I think the reason nothing substantial has been done so far is just because the Democrats have been catering to the fear of our point. Enough is enough, they got elected to govern so its about time they got down to do some governing.

Yep...there's no bipartisanship with Republicans...they want to stall everything till 2010 and hope they win back either house of Congress...obstructionist...either version (house/Senate) of the health-care proposal will likely wind up costing more than is projected, but health-care costs can also spiral out of control too...families are paying anywhere from $1200 - $800 per month and Ins. companies hold virtual monopolies in states, keeping competition, that free-market Republican worship, locked out...

[SpurNation]

“No, this will be a proposal by the Democrats to bring a bill on the floor. And that’s what I have said before, that the people of this country — I keep saying — the people of this country pretty overwhelmingly elected Barack Obama last fall and to make changes,” he said. “The people of this country overwhelmingly elected Democrats to the House and Senate.”



1 results for: desperate
desperate | adjective Main Entry: desperate http://o.aolcdn.com/esp/en/US/esp/010411/001/img/audio.png!des-p(u-)rut
Pronunciation: \ ˈdes-p(ə-)rət, -pərt \
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin desperatus, past participle of desperare
Date: 15th century
Results
1 having lost hope - a spirit crying for relief b. giving no ground for hope 2 moved by despair - victims made by abuse b. involving or employing extreme measures in an attempt to escape defeat or frustration - made a leap for the rope

[Nbadan]

..it's a crisis...and all the GOP wants to do is stall, stall, stall....

[SouthernFried]

September 30, 2009

Congress's Secret Plan to Pass Obamacare
by Brian Darling

President Obama and Congress seem intent on passing comprehensive health care reform, even though polls suggest it is unpopular with the American people. And despite the potential political risks to moderate Democrats, the President and left-wing leadership in Congress are determined to pass the measure using a rare parliamentary procedure.

The Senate plans to attach Obamacare to a House-passed non-healthcare bill. Ironically, nobody knows what that legislation looks like, because it has not yet been written. Yet many members plan to rubber-stamp Obamacare without reading or understanding the bill.

The Senate Finance Committee worked furiously last week to mark up a "conceptual framework" of health care reform. The committee actually rejected an amendment by Sen. Jim Bunning (R.-Ky.) to mandate that the bill text and a final cost analysis by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) be publicly available at least 72 hours before the Finance Committee votes on final passage.

The following four-step scenario describes one way liberals plan to work the rules in their favor to get Obamacare through the Senate:

Step 1: The Senate Finance Committee must first approve the marked-up version of Sen. Max Baucus' (D.-Mont.) conceptual framework. Then Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D.-Nev.) can say that two Senate Committees have passed a health care bill, which will allow him to take extraordinary steps to get the bill on the Senate floor.

During the mark-up last week, members had difficulty offering amendments and trying to make constructive changed because they lacked actual legislative text and Baucus made unilateral last minute changes. For example, the AP reported that "under pressure from fellow Democrats, the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee decided to commit an additional $50 billion over a decade toward making insurance more affordable for working-class families."

Step 2: Sen. Reid will take the final product of the Senate Finance Committee and merge it with the product of the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions (HELP) Committee, which passed on a party-line vote in July.

Usually, a bill is voted out of committee, and then the Senate takes up the final product of the committee so that all 100 senators can have a hand in the process. With some help from the Obama administration, Reid will decide what aspects of the HELP and Finance Committee bills to keep.

Step 3: Now, Obamacare will be ready to hitch a ride on an unrelated bill from the House. Sen. Reid will move to proceed to H.R. 1586, a bill to impose a tax on bonuses received by certain TARP recipients. This bill was passed by the House in the wake of the AIG bonus controversy and is currently sitting on the Senate Legislative Calendar.

The move to proceed needs 60 votes to start debate. After the motion is approved, Sen. Reid will offer Obamacare as a complete substitute to the unrelated House-passed bill. This means that the entire healthcare reform effort will be included as an amendment to a TARP bill that has been collecting dust in the Senate for months.

Step 4: For this strategy to work, the proponents would need to hold together the liberal caucus of 58 Democrats (including Paul Kirk who was named last Thursday to replace Sen. Kennedy), and the two Independent senators (Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and Bernie Sanders of Vermont). These members will have to all hold hands and vote against any filibuster. Once the Senate takes up the bill, only a simple majority of members will be needed for passage. It's possible one of the endangered moderate Democrats, such as Sen. Blanche Lincoln (Ark.), could vote to stop a filibuster then vote against Obamacare so as not to offend angry constituents.

Once the Senate passes a bill and sends it to the House, all the House would have to do is pass the bill without changes and President Obama will be presented with his health care reform measure. If this plan does not work, the Senate and House leadership may go back to considering using reconciliation to pass the legislation.

Adopting this secret plan will not strike most Americans as a transparent, bipartisan, effective way to change how millions of Americans get their health care.

[Wild Cobra]

..it's a crisis...and all the GOP wants to do is stall, stall, stall....
It's not a crisis. Do you believe everything by the M$M's?

[boutons_deux]

"considering using reconciliation"

Like the Repugs did to pass dubya's tax cut bill.

One smash-mouth deserves another in return. yay!

Kill some ass, Dems. The Repugs are NEVER gonna play ball, and everybody knows it.

Now, with the stock prices of the health insurance companies crater Friday, just as they rose earlier on earlier rumors in their favor?

[mogrovejo]

That 2nd point might be valid had the GOP not been playing victim the day after the November elections. The Tea Parties and Town Halls of 09 are all beautiful examples of this.

I think the reason nothing substantial has been done so far is just because the Democrats have been catering to the fear of our point. Enough is enough, they got elected to govern so its about time they got down to do some governing.

I think their appeal would be quite broader and more convincing if such a drastic move was made.

I don't even believe Harkin believes his own words though. This stuff may excite hardcore liberals, but there aren't enough hardcore liberals in Nevada to re-elect Reid.

[Nbadan]

Let's not get panties in a wad just yet....Democratic law-makers have made promises before...

[boutons_deux]

Here's some more Dem kickass of the Repugs:


http://www.alternet.org/images/site/logo.gif
3 Important Lessons Dems Should Learn From Grayson

By Chris Bowers, Open Left
Posted on October 1, 2009, Printed on October 1, 2009

http://www.alternet.org/bloggers/http://www.openleft.com/143035/


Usually when Republicans and conservative media join together to throw a coordinated hissy fit against something "outrageous" a Democrat has said, it resulted in apologies (John Kerry in 2006), resignations (Van Jones) and public condemnations in Congress (MoveOn.org). Yesterday, however, Republicans actually backed down from their hissy fit when Rep. Alan Grayson stood up to them. Even as Grayson intensified his rhetoric, Republicans withdrew their resolution to condemn him on the House floor (http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/10/01/rep-price-punts-on-effort-to-discipline-rep-grayson/).

There were several important differences between this and most of the other attacks from the Republican manufactured outrage machine. Other Democrats in Congress could stand to learn from them:



Grayson specifically chose to use rhetoric that echoed earlier rhetoric used by many prominent Republicans. Lesson: Throwing Republican rhetoric back at them can potentially be more effective then just condemning Republican rhetoric.
Too often, Democrats allow policy discussions to be derailed by Republican rhetorical excess. By contrast, Grayson used his rhetorical moment to shift to a policy argument about tens of thousands of people dying from lack of health insurance. Lesson: rhetorical moments like these can allow you to control the debate, as Republicans long ago learned
Many Democrats in congress are oblivious to the existence of the progressive netroots or even progressive media. As such, they think no one will be around to support them if they pick a fight like this. Alan Grayson, by contrast, hired Matt Stoller, thus making his office more aware of the netroots than anyone else in Congress. His non-apology yesterday was targeted directly at the progressive netroots, and earned him $100,000. Further, progressive media like the Huffington Post and the Daily Show immediately produced reams of quotes and video showing Republicans using the same sort of rhetoric over the summer. Lesson: If you want to pick a fight, and if you understand the medium, progressive media and the progressive netroots can help you.

It is a landmark moment for a freshman Democrat from a marginal, R+2 district to win a rhetorical fight with the Republican smear machine like this. Hopefully, it will become a teachable moment for other Democrats in Congress.

[Nbadan]

Ouch..

3H3gND4M9HA

[MannyIsGod]

I think their appeal would be quite broader and more convincing if such a drastic move was made.

I don't even believe Harkin believes his own words though. This stuff may excite hardcore liberals, but there aren't enough hardcore liberals in Nevada to re-elect Reid.

I'm not so sure the first point is true. I do think that long term a bad health care bill could be good or bad depending on how it turns out, but I definitely believe in the short run being able to point to it and show that they got it done is important. The long run is more important on whether or not it actually works.

Public opinion shows that more Americans - by a large margin - view the democrats as the party that is working towards bipartisanship. The GOP really does a have a problem with being currently branded the party of no. If health care reform gets done without them I believe they will regret missing the boat.


Now, I don't necessarily disagree with your 2nd point. The supposed party of our Marxist president has proven time and time again it is anything but progressive. I'm not holding my breath on this getting done in that manner but we'll see how affective Emanuel and Obama are at working over the people that are supposedly on their side.

[Nbadan]

Ouch!

dn9361OuMQA

[mogrovejo]

Here's the Orlando Sentinel (endorsed Kerry, Obama) editorial today:


Grayson's bombast

U.S. Rep. Alan Grayson, the first-term Democrat from Orlando, already has a well-deserved reputation for overheated rhetoric. But he outdid himself Tuesday night when he declared — on the floor of the House — that the "Republican plan" for health care was for Americans to not get sick, or to "die quickly" if they do.

There is no place in a congressional debate for this kind of hyperbolic, hyperpartisan attack. It's toxic. Mr. Grayson owes the House a sincere apology.

But is it any surprise that pugnacious Democrats (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/politics/parties-movements/democratic-party-ORGOV0000005.topic) like Mr. Grayson are fighting back in the escalating war of words of health-care reform? Some Republicans (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/politics/parties-movements/republican-party-ORGOV0000004.topic), after all, have been hurling their own over-the-top charges at Democrats for weeks, like accusing them of favoring "death panels" to deny care to the elderly and disabled. Republican Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/topic/politics/ginny-brown-waite-PEPLT000720.topic) of Brooksville said on the House floor that the Democrats' health bill "essentially said to America's seniors: Drop dead."

A pox on both their houses.

We understand the mounting frustration among Democrats who are convinced that Republicans have no goal other than torpedoing health-care reform. That doesn't mean, however, that there can be no reasonable objections to the approach favored by leading Democrats and the president. The right way to sort it all out is with a robust but respectful debate.

Mr. Grayson actually has a pretty good grasp of health-care issues. That makes his histrionics on the House floor even less excusable. He knows better.

A slash-and-burn approach to debate on both sides will doom any hope for bipartisan reform.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-edpquickhits01100109oct01,0,2183574.story

That stuff just don't sell outside the "progressive netroots".

[Nbadan]

Eh, If it lights a fire under Democrat ass's, it's a gamble well-played....guy could have kept his mouth shut and bank-rolled to another election...

[MannyIsGod]

Here's the Orlando Sentinel (endorsed Kerry, Obama) editorial today:



http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-edpquickhits01100109oct01,0,2183574.story

That stuff just don't sell outside the "progressive netroots".

I'm not buying it. Results sell more than anything, and getting health care legislation is the bottom line. No one will care how it gets done if it gets done.

[boutons_deux]

"There is no place in a congressional debate for this kind of hyperbolic, hyperpartisan attack. It's toxic"

What was the Sentinel's take on "You Lie!" :lol
As always the bullying, dickless Repugs and conservatives spew nasty stuff non-stop, but when somebody sends it back, they whine like little bitches.

[LnGrrrR]

Wow. Freezing the GOP out of reconciliation and adding public option back in. Bold.

Makes sense. The GOP already admitted that they're going to oppose any bill with "health care" in the title, even if it introduced a flat tax, eliminated Medicaid/Medicare, and brought Reagan back to life.

It's nice to see some Dems show a spine, at the least.

[Winehole23]

Lots of moving parts: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aIrf9uoyT0Rw

[DarrinS]

As if republicans could actually stop anything the dems want to do.

Don't they have a supermajority?


I smell incompetence. Evidently, so does Jon Stewart.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-september-30-2009/democratic-super-majority

[LnGrrrR]

This stuff may excite hardcore liberals, but there aren't enough hardcore liberals in Nevada to re-elect Reid.

Actually, hardcore liberals don't like Reid, because he tends to waffle on most progressive issues.

[Winehole23]

As if republicans could actually stop anything the dems want to do.It's their job to try, and to break the 60-40 supermajority, they only need to peel off one Democratic senator.

[coyotes_geek]

Lots of moving parts: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aIrf9uoyT0Rw

So basically they're softening up the fines for not having insurance, thus creating a greater incentive to just pay the fines and not get insurance.

Still no mention of how to pay for this either.

[boutons_deux]

"60-40 supermajority"

false, Blue Dogs kill any supermajority, on health care reform and very probably immigration reform next year. reconciliation is the only way Dems will get anything done.

[DarrinS]

It's their job to try, and to break the 60-40 supermajority, they only need to peel off one Democratic senator.


They don't have to do much. The American people can see what a train wreck this current congress is.

[Winehole23]

Limit the excise, pad out the benefits. Classic Capitol Hill arithmetic.

[hope4dopes]

If the Democrats kept this up, they wouldn't need lobbyist money to get re-elected.. Hell no they got George Soros.

[SnakeBoy]

..it's a crisis...and all the GOP wants to do is stall, stall, stall....

It's such a crisis that the Dems don't want any changes they come up with to take effect until 2013.

[Winehole23]

They don't have to do much. The American people can see what a train wreck this current congress is.You should have whiplash, Darrin.

First you suggest the GOP is powerless to stop the Dems, and then you turn around and suggest in the very next post that their downfall is already complete -- that people can already see it, and the GOP could easily get a singleton vote from the Dems.

Which is it?

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

He did vote for Obama and then turn around and do nothing but bash him. What do you expect WH? This is Darrin's MO.

[Winehole23]

redacted.

[NoOptionB]

I respect a politician who does not apologize.

[mogrovejo]

I'm not so sure the first point is true. I do think that long term a bad health care bill could be good or bad depending on how it turns out, but I definitely believe in the short run being able to point to it and show that they got it done is important. The long run is more important on whether or not it actually works.

Public opinion shows that more Americans - by a large margin - view the democrats as the party that is working towards bipartisanship. The GOP really does a have a problem with being currently branded the party of no. If health care reform gets done without them I believe they will regret missing the boat.

Now, I don't necessarily disagree with your 2nd point. The supposed party of our Marxist president has proven time and time again it is anything but progressive. I'm not holding my breath on this getting done in that manner but we'll see how affective Emanuel and Obama are at working over the people that are supposedly on their side.

I doubt that Americans will keep seeing the Democrats as the party of bipartisanship if they pursuit this kind of modus operandis, unless the Republicans are very clumsy. It's going to be difficult to campaign on change and bi-partisanship when you're the status quo and were unable to achieve any kind of bipartisanship compromises - in fact, aggravating the diviseness and soureness between the lines. Trying to blame the other side when you're the one with the power simply won't work.

There won't be any kind of consensus about the sucess of a health-care bill, especially if the republicans are smart enough to link the threshold to the most ardent campaign rethoric.


Actually, hardcore liberals don't like Reid, because he tends to waffle on most progressive issues.

Of course they don't, hardcore liberals are ideological fanaticists and they tend to dislike everybody except those of their own brand and Reid isn't one of them - if he was, he wouldn't be a Senator for Nevada. That's exactly my point: what excites hardcore liberals isn't what excites Reid's voting coalition.

[Winehole23]

I doubt that Americans will keep seeing the Democrats as the party of bipartisanship if they pursuit this kind of modus operandisThe same was said of their predecessors but they did it efficiently, for awhile.

See them now.

Is there a connection? Who knows?

Sometimes the opposition is told to go away, while the law is written by the majority. This isn't a first ever, by a long shot. It happened in the previous administration.

Tax cuts? Reconciliation rules, 51 votes wins? Am I wrong about this having happened fairly recently?

[boutons_deux]

"the Democrats as the party of bipartisanship"

Tast time I looked, it "bi-" takes two parties.

Magic Negro/Dems have clearly, for anybody who bothers to look, been trying to work with the Repugs. The Repugs clearly have refused to cooperate on anything, while offering nothing, like a health plan or a budget with numbers. The title for the Repugs is the Pary of No. They can't shake it. Sorta like the "Christians" can't shake racist label, esp. now they they've aliged with the racist tea-partiers.

If the Dems force through stuff without the Repugs, including reconciliation in the Senate, they will only be doing to the Repugs what the Repugs did to them for 6 years. Fair enough.

[MannyIsGod]

I doubt that Americans will keep seeing the Democrats as the party of bipartisanship if they pursuit this kind of modus operandis, unless the Republicans are very clumsy. It's going to be difficult to campaign on change and bi-partisanship when you're the status quo and were unable to achieve any kind of bipartisanship compromises - in fact, aggravating the diviseness and soureness between the lines. Trying to blame the other side when you're the one with the power simply won't work.

There won't be any kind of consensus about the sucess of a health-care bill, especially if the republicans are smart enough to link the threshold to the most ardent campaign rethoric.



The poll numbers are what they are. The GOP is weak and you'd be hard pressed to find a weaker opposition in quite some time. The public opinion is on the side of the Democrats and its going to take a hell of a lot more than this after month after month after month of stalling by the GOP to change that.

What you're saying makes sense only if you take it out of the context that the majority of this country wants health care reform, wants it to come with a public option, and sees the GOP as nothing more than blocking it.

[DarrinS]

The poll numbers are what they are. The GOP is weak and you'd be hard pressed to find a weaker opposition in quite some time. The public opinion is on the side of the Democrats and its going to take a hell of a lot more than this after month after month after month of stalling by the GOP to change that.


Manny,


The GOP can't stall shit. The dems finally have complete control and you are witnessing what they're doing with it.

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/assessing_the_gop_brand.php





In short, there's no question that the GOP party brand is in worse shape than any opposition party in recent memory. The question, however, is whether this difference in party valence will (a) persist through next November and (b) translate into fewer GOP House seats at the polls, especially once we account for the generic Congressional ballot (http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/10-us-house-genballot.php), which should (in principle) take much of this difference into account (see Alan Abramowitz's model (http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/article.php?id=AIA2009090301), for instance). Those questions remain to be addressed.


The Democrats have political capital to spend right now. Mogro is right in that they're likely to lose that, but doing nothing is worthless because you're not likely to retain that capital even if you do what the GOP wants. Thats not the way the game works.


You either get your shit done now while you can, or you can forget about ever getting it done.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny,


The GOP can't stall shit. The dems finally have complete control and you are witnessing what they're doing with it.

Yes, I know this the latest meme you've latched onto but that doesn't make it any more true.

[Winehole23]

Manny,


The GOP can't stall shit. The dems finally have complete control and you are witnessing what they're doing with it.That was the horn you blew last time. Nice to know where you come out on this.

The timekeeper on the home court shouldn't call the game too quick, if we're behind.

I'm guessing you're just a fan, rooting for the loss so the winners can be blamed. The dems could still be stopped, though. Peel off one guy or gal. Getting to 60 votes is hard.

You're for giving up on beating the bill now? Letting it pass?

Huh?

[mogrovejo]

The same was said of their predecessors but they did it efficiently, for awhile.

See them now.

Is there a connection? Who knows?

Sometimes the opposition is told to go away, while the law is written by the majority. This isn't a first ever, by a long shot. It happened in the previous administration.

Tax cuts? Reconciliation rules, 51 votes wins? Am I wrong about this having happened fairly recently?

Well, and Bush campaigned as a uniter and conciliator in 2000 just to run as the decider and being seen as an extremely divisive and polarizing character in 2004. Of course this happens, I'm just saying they can't expect to eat the cake and keep it.


The poll numbers are what they are. The GOP is weak and you'd be hard pressed to find a weaker opposition in quite some time. The public opinion is on the side of the Democrats and its going to take a hell of a lot more than this after month after month after month of stalling by the GOP to change that.

What you're saying makes sense only if you take it out of the context that the majority of this country wants health care reform, wants it to come with a public option, and sees the GOP as nothing more than blocking it.

http://www.pollster.com/blogs/assessing_the_gop_brand.php


The Democrats have political capital to spend right now. Mogro is right in that they're likely to lose that, but doing nothing is worthless because you're not likely to retain that capital even if you do what the GOP wants. Thats not the way the game works.

You either get your shit done now while you can, or you can forget about ever getting it done.

I wouldn't puch much stock in brand polls. People perceive the country going into the wrong direction and see the Congress with despise. Whoever holds the power will be punished. The Party of No is partisan vitrol as convincing to the regular voter as the Party of Death.

Political cycles are getting smaller and smaller. The more a party is seen as governing in a partisan fashion, the more independents and centrists will run away from that party, even if the policies aren't really radical.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, and Bush campaigned as a uniter and conciliator in 2000 just to run as the decider and being seen as an extremely divisive and polarizing character in 2004. Of course this happens, I'm just saying they can't expect to eat the cake and keep it.



I wouldn't puch much stock in brand polls. People perceive the country going into the wrong direction and see the Congress with despise. Whoever holds the power will be punished. The Party of No is partisan vitrol as convincing to the regular voter as the Party of Death.

Political cycles are getting smaller and smaller. The more a party is seen as governing in a partisan fashion, the more independents and centrists will run away from that party, even if the policies aren't really radical.

Sure taken out of context brand polls can be misread. But when you compare them to other brand polls in the past its completely possible to see how today's opinions compare to those of the past and when you do that it becomes apparent what bad shape the GOP was in. I mean com'on, this isn't even a reach. There's a reason the Democrats have the most seats they've had in quite some time.

You advocate caution because it might come back to bite them in the ass. I don't see it that way. I see right now as an opportunity before the GOP gains seats back. Barring something extraordinary, the GOP will gain seats in congress. It is the typical swing of the political pendulum. Playing to stop that swing is far worse than using the advantage to pass your agenda while you have it.

To adapt your analogy: They'd better eat the cake while they have it.

[Wild Cobra]

Peel off one guy or gal. Getting to 60 votes is hard.

I doubt it. There are enough RINOs to make up for the Blue Dogs.

[Winehole23]

Who all is a RINO?

[Winehole23]

I heard Sen. Snowe is a probable yea. But I didn't hear of any others from the GOP in the Senate.

And for some reason the press keeps reaching for Sen. Lincoln as an example of the sort of imperilled moderate democrat who might vote nay. There must be others.

Which other Republicans in the Senate besides Sen. Snowe are gonna break down and vote for this shitty thing, WC?

Why not let the Dems own it 100 %?

[mogrovejo]

Sure taken out of context brand polls can be misread. But when you compare them to other brand polls in the past its completely possible to see how today's opinions compare to those of the past and when you do that it becomes apparent what bad shape the GOP was in. I mean com'on, this isn't even a reach. There's a reason the Democrats have the most seats they've had in quite some time.

You advocate caution because it might come back to bite them in the ass. I don't see it that way. I see right now as an opportunity before the GOP gains seats back. Barring something extraordinary, the GOP will gain seats in congress. It is the typical swing of the political pendulum. Playing to stop that swing is far worse than using the advantage to pass your agenda while you have it.

To adapt your analogy: They'd better eat the cake while they have it.

Bon appétit.:toast

[TeyshaBlue]

Lost in the boutonsian diatribe of partisan fueled bovine incomprehension is the fact that this Healthcare Reform bill isn't.
If there were anybody left supporting this bill with a room temprature IQ, they'd send it back to the House and start over....small steps, well thought-out and succinctly transparent. Of course, I drink alot too.