America First!! Texas somewhere after that.

[EVAY]

Having been gone for several months, I returned here in the last two weeks to folks all over the place talking gleefully about Texas 'seceding' from the U.S. No, I don't believe it literally. I'm sure it is just their way of saying they are unhappy with Washington, but these are the same folks who are going to 'tea parties' and and waving American flags all over the place. It fankly makes me angry, and I don't often get angry.

A very little bit of Texas chauvanism goes a very long way with most of us who are not native Texans, and unfortunately, most native Texans don't limit themselves to 'a little bit".


There is simply no way that you can claim to be an American patriot and simultaneously say that you are in favor of secession, figuratively or not. Members of my family have given their lives and treasure for American freedoms (including the freedoms of these fools to threaten secession) since the inception of the country. I do not consider any "Texas Firster" an American patriot. There is a serious lack of internal cohesion in their arguments.

Mostly, what I want to say is...stop yakking about it with smug faces and DO IT OR SHUT UP ABOUT IT!!!! And stop pretending you are American Patriots while you are doing it.

[Winehole23]

is pro-Texas, anti-secession. I like being part of the US.

[DarrinS]

Texas envy

[jman3000]

wtf? I don't want Texas to secede from the Union, but with that being said, all the other 49 states are pretty much a bunch of pussies. We're not perfect, but once you get past all the inbreds everyone's pretty nice.

[DarrinS]

wtf? I don't want Texas to secede from the Union, but with that being said, all the other 49 states are pretty much a bunch of pussies. We're not perfect, but once you get past all the inbreds everyone's pretty nice.

:lol

[Winehole23]

But I will be as belligerently pro-Texas as I want.

I'm not sure I'd condescend to secessionists figuratively, like our Governor has, but I'll be civil to them. I do meet one now and then.

[Winehole23]

It's hard to hold loving Texas too much against someone.

[doobs]

You can all go to hell. I'm going to Texas.

[EVAY]

wtf? I don't want Texas to secede from the Union, but with that being said, all the other 49 states are pretty much a bunch of pussies. We're not perfect, but once you get past all the inbreds everyone's pretty nice.

See, this is NOT what I'm talking about. I don't care if you like/love Texas more than any of the other states. I care if you like it more than America. I care about that a lot. I'm talking about the people who think that Texas is so much better than the UNION of the ALL the states put together that they want to pull out.

Those of you who are responding so far are mostly just being defensive about Texans. It is unneccessary and not on point.

State pride does not necessarily equal state chauvinism. State chauvinism is when you put down any other state because it is NOT Texas. State chauvinism is the tiresome, tedious, inane jingoism that asserts that anyone from anywhere else wishes they were Texans. Please.

State pride does not necessarily call for secession from the United States.

Calling for secession does, however, mean that you are saying that your state is too good for the rest of this country. That is offensive. That is even beyond chauvinism. Simultaneously wearing your American patriotism on your sleeve while 'threatening' secession from those you consider 'beneath' you is simply incoherent and insulting to others.

Any of you who start with "I don't want to secede" are not the folks I'm talking about.

And if you feel you have to respond to this with a defense of Texas pride (not chauvinism) you are evidencing an inability to separate pride and chauvinism. Every state in the nation has its defenders and people who are proud of it. Many believe their state is better than all the others. Having lived in lots of them, I've heard a lot of their arguments. I have never heard the kind of smugness in other states that I have heard here, though. I have never heard the trash talking about states other than one's own that I hear here. It is simply not Texas' finest trait. But that is merely tiresome...it is not necessarily treason. I don't know what talk of secession is if it is not treasonous.

[SpurNation]

I don't know what talk of secession is if it is not treasonous.

Any more treasonous than what the beurocrats in DC are doing to this country's own constitution?

[Winehole23]

That is offensive. That is even beyond chauvinism. Simultaneously wearing your American patriotism on your sleeve while 'threatening' secession from those you consider 'beneath' you is simply incoherent and insulting to others. Yeah. It probably is. I'm used to it though.


It is simply not Texas' finest traitProbably not. That's not my main reason for loving it.


Many believe their state is better than all the others. Having lived in lots of them, I've heard a lot of their arguments. I have never heard the kind of smugness in other states that I have heard here, though. I have never heard the trash talking about states other than one's own that I hear here.Yeah, that's true, too. Can I plead nolo?


But that is merely tiresome...it is not necessarily treason. I don't know what talk of secession is if it is not treasonous.Ambivalent about the sincerity of avowed devotees? I can understand that too.

Calling secessionists traitors is probably overkill as a rule of thumb. But you might meet one who fits the bill, someday.

Do you live in Texas, EVAY?

[Bender]

Any more treasonous than what the beurocrats in DC are doing to this country's own constitution?

that says it all...

[EVAY]

Yeah. It probably is. I'm used to it though.

Probably not. That's not my main reason for loving it.

Yeah, that's true, too. Can I plead nolo?

Ambivalent about the sincerity of avowed devotees? I can understand that too.

Calling secessionists traitors is probably overkill as a rule of thumb. But you might meet one who fits the bill, someday.

Do you live in Texas, EVAY?

I do. I live in San Antonio more than 6 months of the year. However, during my life I have lived in 8 other states. I was not born in Texas. I was born in a state other than Texas (Alabama) and left it when I was 17 years old before I started college and never lived there again. (And don't want to). Since then I have lived in Missouri, Maryland, Kentucky, Colorado, and Kansas. I now live in a state other than Texas close to half of the year. (Colorado). My family fought in the wars of Independence, the Civil War, the War of 1812, the Indian Wars, ) in the Southeast) the World Wars (I and II), the Iraq war, and the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. My family helped found many of the Texas cities and fought for Texas independence, however.
My family fought on both sides of the Civil War. My family's home county was the only county in Alabama to vote AGAINST secession. We tend to feel pretty strongly against it.

[spurster]

Any more treasonous than what the beurocrats in DC are doing to this country's own constitution?

What are they doing that's any worse than what Bush did?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What are they doing that's any worse than what Bush did?

:lol Obama and his liberal buddies in Congress have already racked up more debt this year than Bush did in all of his. And I guess you've missed what they have planned in crap & trade and the health care bill, too.

[Def Rowe]

This is an interesting topic. To me the idea of any state seceding is over the top... Needless.

Perhaps the reason the idea is kinda popular in Texas is because of the state's proximity to the rest of the country. The perception among some extremists is that you've got east coast liberals in Washington and New York to the right of you, and Hollywood liberals to the left. They are controlling you with their media and are going to take your guns! paranoia like that sells in rural areas.

Maybe Texas has too many rural areas. Maybe that's your problem.

[CosmicCowboy]

Actually, secession is an interesting concept. As best I remember it Texas would immediately become the 8th largest economy in the world. And it's an economy that is pretty well balanced between energy, petrochemical, medical, tech, and agriculture.

The US government (with the collusion of BOTH political parties) is simply out of control.

Spending is out of control. Our politicians only care about being re-elected and not how they are destroying the country long term and leaving our kids a mountain of debt that they will never be able to overcome.

Quite honestly, this would be a great time to bail. Join NAFTA. Have open borders with Mexico and USA. Keep a relatively low tax environment, have a fiscally responsible government and our own currency that's not linked to the dollar. Have reasonable environmental rules that really protect the environment and tell the USA to stick cap and trade up their ass.

Productive A list Americans would be swarming to Texas for the chance to live a better life in a country that is not determined to destroy it's currency and bury itself under a mountain of debt that can only be paid by continuing to increase taxes on it's citizens.

[CosmicCowboy]

I will even take it a step further...

Have a flat income tax.

Agree to assume all social security and medicare benefits for Texas retirees...let the US "keep" their contributions to the "trust fund" LOL

Re-think welfare benefits so that they don't reward having babies that can't be financially supported by the parent. If they don't like it, give them a one time cash settlement and a plane ticket to New Jersey.

Expand work permits for mexican citizens. Get these guys registered and into the mainstream economy instead of being underground and not paying taxes...Make the permit/labor/tax laws simple to comply with and fine the shit out of any employer that cheats.

Have state run health clinics available for everyone. Staff them with Doctors and Nurses that got a free medical education from the State in exchange for working for 5-10 years at a reasonable salary in the clinics before going into the private sector.

I know that I personally am paying 35%+ of my income to Federal taxes, 8.125% sales taxes, and about $20,000 a year in property taxes for personal and company property.

I am confident that a fiscally responsible Texas government could do a much better job of spending my taxes than is being done now.

[boutons_deux]

"flat income tax"

ah yes, the rich peoples' tax solution. How about a flat income tax WITH NO DEDUCTIBLES or LOOPHOLES? And of course the flat income tax is always less than the top tax rate, and always hits the lower brackets harder than the the top bracket, aka, regressive.

"don't reward having babies (by poor people)" eugenics

How much would TX military need to spend to match the Fed's $600B wasted on the federal military?

Rich, very comfortable people with more money than they'll ever need, and with more money than 99% of everybody else, always complain about not having enough because of TAXES!, because they're greedy bastards depending on everybody else, including the protection and subsidies of fed govt, to keep them safe and wealthy.

[CosmicCowboy]

"flat income tax"

ah yes, the rich peoples' tax solution. How about a flat income tax WITH NO DEDUCTIBLES or LOOPHOLES? And of course the flat income tax is always less than the top tax rate, and always hits the lower brackets harder than the the top bracket, aka, regressive.

"don't reward having babies (by poor people)" eugenics

How much would TX military need to spend to match the Fed's $600B wasted on the federal military?

Rich, very comfortable people with more money than they'll ever need, and with more money than 99% of everybody else, always complain about not having enough because of TAXES!, because they're greedy bastards depending on everybody else, including the protection and subsidies of fed govt, to keep them safe and wealthy.

I'm OK with a sliding scale of flat taxes (NO deductions) where the poor (up to the poverty line) don't pay anything and the middle class pay a lower percentage than the rich. I just think that everyone should have a little skin in the game so they vote for fiscally responsible politicians, not just the politician that promises them something for nothing. I think that letting people keep more of their own money is a better plan than taking it from them and then letting a central government decide how to split the spoils. It's called giving people an incentive to work and improve their own lives instead of depending on the "government" for their sustenance.

As for the military, I really don't see much point in Texas having a military. If we felt threatened by Mexico we could just pay the US a flat fee for "protection". If we feel threatened by the US theres really nothing we can do about it...we sure can't (and don't want to) out spend them. We just need to make sure that it is in the US best interest politically not to mess with us.

[Marcus Bryant]

What are they doing that's any worse than what Bush did?

True. It's a continuation. I suppose Medicare Part D was a strike for freedom against the evil socialism.

The face has changed, but the government is the same.

[Hook Dem]

I'm OK with a sliding scale of flat taxes (NO deductions) where the poor (up to the poverty line) don't pay anything and the middle class pay a lower percentage than the rich. I just think that everyone should have a little skin in the game so they vote for fiscally responsible politicians, not just the politician that promises them something for nothing. I think that letting people keep more of their own money is a better plan than taking it from them and then letting a central government decide how to split the spoils. It's called giving people an incentive to work and improve their own lives instead of depending on the "government" for their sustenance.

As for the military, I really don't see much point in Texas having a military. If we felt threatened by Mexico we could just pay the US a flat fee for "protection". If we feel threatened by the US theres really nothing we can do about it...we sure can't (and don't want to) out spend them. We just need to make sure that it is in the US best interest politically not to mess with us.

That does it! Cosmic Cowboy for president of TEXAS!:lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Are we seceding because there's a negro in the White House?

Now if you want to secede because it's apparent that our elections seem to be sham affairs and federal politicians appear to be owned by wealthy individuals and commercial and financial interests, I don't necessarily condone it, but I understand. It wasn't Obama's treasury secretary who came up with TARP. Of course, this isn't anything new. There has been a substantial anti-democratic power in control of this nation for a long time, and no, I am not referring to the Constitution, which is all but dead today.

Also, is there really that much doubt that a McCain administration wouldn't have pursued the same general course as the current one with respect to Detroit, Wall Street, and, yes, the health care industry? If anything, McCain would likely have sought a more intrusive regulatory framework for the financial services industry.

It's amusing how some get worked up about "socialism" when it comes to redistribution down. But when it's redistribution up the food chain, then it's just good ol' fashioned American free enterprise.

[boutons_deux]

Here's some good ol' cracka Texan culture (esp strong in east TX)

Texas DA tries to use illegally seized assets for own legal defense

By Muriel Kane (http://rawstory.com/2009/author/murielkane/)
Friday, October 2nd, 2009 -- 10:00 pm



http://www.rawstory.com/images/other/russell100209.jpg


The American Civil Liberties Union on Friday filed a brief with the Texas Attorney General's office arguing that either the county or state must be forced to represent a county district attorney accused of illegally seizing money from mainly black motorists -- in amounts ranging from $4000 to $50,000 -- under the pretext of anti-drug forfeiture laws.

Shelby County District Attorney Lynda K. Russell is the subject of a federal lawsuit (pdf) (http://www.aclu.org/pdfs/racialjustice/morrowvwashington_secondamendedcomplaint.pdf), along with the Deputy City Marshall, the mayor, and other local officials.

According to the ACLU, "Russell is accused of participating in a scheme in which authorities pull over mostly African-American motorists driving along a state highway in Tenaha, TX without cause, ask if they are carrying cash and, if so, order them to sign over the cash to the town or face felony charges of money laundering or other serious crimes."

Reports of similar cases are common throughout Texas, but legislation to tighten up the asset forfeiture laws has been stalled in the state legislature. :lol

(how many blacks in TX legislature vs blacks as %age of state population?)

Shelby County has refused (http://www.aclu.org/pdfs/racialjustice/aclulettertotxag.pdf) to represent Russell because she is a state employee, and the state Attorney General has also refused. Russell is therefore asking permission to use the seized money that is the subject of the lawsuit for her own defense.:lol

[Trainwreck2100]

If texas were to secede we'd just get invaded or our oil

[CosmicCowboy]

"don't reward having babies (by poor people)" eugenics



Do you REALLY want to debate this?

I have a 25 year old daughter that works, makes $15 an hour, rents a house, and makes a car note. She is a responsible citizen. She also knows she can't afford to have a baby right now.

On the other hand, you have 16 year old single mothers with no jobs, no income and no education having baby after baby because every time they have one their check from the Federal government gets bigger...

You think this is RIGHT???? How the fuck can you possibly defend giving them incentives to have babies they can't afford? It is self-perpetuating poverty at a geometrically increasing number and the responsible tax paying citizens are deferring and or limiting their children because they know how expensive/difficult it is to give a child a good start in life.

[CosmicCowboy]

Are we seceding because there's a negro in the White House?

Now if you want to secede because it's apparent that our elections seem to be sham affairs and federal politicians appear to be owned by wealthy individuals and commercial and financial interests, I don't necessarily condone it, but I understand. It wasn't Obama's treasury secretary who came up with TARP. Of course, this isn't anything new. There has been a substantial anti-democratic power in control of this nation for a long time, and no, I am not referring to the Constitution, which is all but dead today.

Also, is there really that much doubt that a McCain administration wouldn't have pursued the same general course as the current one with respect to Detroit, Wall Street, and, yes, the health care industry? If anything, McCain would likely have sought a more intrusive regulatory framework for the financial services industry.

It's amusing how some get worked up about "socialism" when it comes to redistribution down. But when it's redistribution up the food chain, then it's just good ol' fashioned American free enterprise.

Matt, I am totally disgusted with Republicans AND Democrats. Bush sold his fiscally responsible soul to get bipartisan support for the war on terror.

[SnakeBoy]

Are we seceding because there's a negro in the White House?


Nice theory except that there has been a small Texas secession movement as long as I've been alive.

[CosmicCowboy]

The only reason I am taking the position that secession would be good is that Texas MIGHT be on a small enough scale that we could fix a lot of the problems facing the US. Politicians will still look out for their best interests and the citizens will have to be vigilant and involved to keep them from fucking things up. I just think the US is irrevocably fucked up and on a downward death spiral.

[fyatuk]

Hey, I'm a citizen of Texas first. I'm only a citizen of the US because Texas is a part of it. If the US isn't serving the needs of Texas, then we should look at secession. It's certainly not the ideal solution though.

[NoOptionB]

Texas and Alaska should form an alliance and gank California.

Then give it back to Mexico.

[Nbadan]

Texas needs to STFU.....it currently gets about $1 in Federal benefits for every dollar Texans pay in Federal taxes....northern elitists states have paid 2-3 dollars for every dollar it receives in Federal benefits for years and the biggest recipients? Southern states...

[CosmicCowboy]

Texas needs to STFU.....it currently gets about $1 in Federal benefits for every dollar Texans pay in Federal taxes....northern elitists states have paid 2-3 dollars for every dollar it receives in Federal benefits for years and the biggest recipients? Southern states...

Documentation?

[NoOptionB]

Texas needs to STFU.....it currently gets about $1 in Federal benefits for every dollar Texans pay in Federal taxes....northern elitists states have paid 2-3 dollars for every dollar it receives in Federal benefits for years and the biggest recipients? Southern states...

If the northern elitist states would wise up to screwing the Federal government, maybe they would not be going bankrupt.

[Nbadan]

google is your friend...

Data: The Tax foundation (http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html)

[CosmicCowboy]

google is your friend...

Data: The Tax foundation (http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html)

OK, we are 35th and get less back than we send in. I still think we can spend our tax dollars more wisely than Washington. More bang for the buck so to speak.

[Nbadan]

Those were 05 numbers, I'm sure the gap has tightened with more retirees moving to Texas and increased military spending in Texas..and think what you will, but the Military is not cheap..

[Winehole23]

Texas and Alaska should form an alliance and gank California.

Then give it back to Mexico.What would we need the Alaskans for?

And why in the world would you give California back to Mexico, after killing so many of its patriotic sons?

Why not invest it with Texans instead?



Long live Texafornia!

[DarkReign]

If texas were to secede we'd just get invaded or our oil

At least some of you Texans get it.

You secede, the Union would declare war and you'd lose in historic fashion.

[DarkReign]

Hey, I'm a citizen of Texas first. I'm only a citizen of the US because Texas is a part of it.

Un-fucking believable.

[rjv]

not the first time i've been embarassed by fellow texans-and it will not be the last.

[CosmicCowboy]

At least some of you Texans get it.

You secede, the Union would declare war and you'd lose in historic fashion.

I personally don't think it has to be that way. It is quite possible that a secession could be negotiated. World opinion would simply not allow the US to roll tanks/troops into Texas...A reasonable analogy would be when the USSR broke apart...

[DarkReign]

I personally don't think it has to be that way. It is quite possible that a secession could be negotiated. World opinion would simply not allow the US to roll tanks/troops into Texas...A reasonable analogy would be when the USSR broke apart...

Youre stretching the meaning of the word "reasonable" to unreasonable degree here.

Mind you, I am of the libertarian slant and more or less hope to see the downfall of the world in my lifetime, so take it for what its worth...

Secession in the United States is nothing like the separatists in say, Quebec, Canada.

Texas is too mineral rich and one of the few states in the Union who know how balance a fucking budget (mostly).

If Texas secedes, the residual effect would be felt across the nation in short order. Lets just assume for a moment that there was somehow, miraculously an amicable secession from the United States (not very united anymore, are we?).

Over a short period of time, the nation would falter even faster while Texas does well. Off the top of my head, two things could happen:

1) Other states in similar positions would secede to strike their own lot. This is the rapid collapse of the United States in a nutshell.

2) The envious eyes of a nation would be fixated on meagerly protected former state bent on reaquiring her.

Either way, youre fast-forwarding an already deteriorating situation. More I think about it, I guess I should be for a Texas secession. We would all be warring with each other in less than 15 years. Interesting thought experiment, nonetheless.

[boutons_deux]

"World opinion would simply not allow the US to roll tanks/troops into Texas"

ha! You think even the US military GAF about world opinion?

The USSR broke apart because USSR invaded non-Russian countries and occupied them against their will, so when the USSR went bankrupt from low-oil-dollars and spending in Afganistan, the occupeid countries were more than ready to become independent again.

Absolutely no comparison with a US state seceding.

[Winehole23]

Either way, youre fast-forwarding an already deteriorating situation. More I think about it, I guess I should be for a Texas secession. We would all be warring with each other in less than 15 years. Interesting thought experiment, nonetheless.I think of it more from the standpoint of a broader social breakdown. If the US fell apart, could Texas cohere?

Extra Stout seems to think not; we'd all be plunged into a Mad Max-style free for all. He could be right.

I'd hate to think that Texas chauvinism is totally worthless apart from how it fires up our athletes. I'd like to think come the big social breakdown, that it would still mean something.

For some reason, I think it would.

[fyatuk]

Un-fucking believable.

What can I say? Given that the original idea behind the USA was independent countries in a permanent alliance with shared economic and military areas, I am perfectly comfortable with that statement.

It's no different than someone born in Berlin saying they are a citizen of Germany first, EU second. Except of course for the original ideals of the US being utterly devastated and all that.

Like I said, though, I'm not a secessionist. I'd rather reform the US back closer to its original ideals and bring back the 10th Amendment to some real meaning instead of words on parchment the government has wiped its ass with.

[rjv]

i'd go and fight with the illegals so we could fight for getting texas back for mexico

[Shastafarian]

i'd go and fight with the illegals so we could fight for getting texas back for mexico

Fuck you and your Mexican rebels. I fight for Spain!!!

[rjv]

Fuck you and your Mexican rebels. I fight for Spain!!!

spain is on my mercenary list although if i could round up enough comanches i may be persuaded to go that way.