Three Little Things That Can Throw off Lakers

[duncan228]

Three Little Things That Can Throw off Lakers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=tsn-threelittlethingstha&prov=tsn&type=lgns)
Sean Deveney
SportingNews

—> —> In the NBA's annual survey of its general managers, it was little surprise which team was picked to win this year's trophy: the Lakers, with a whopping 60.7 percent of the vote, a monumental percentage-point bulge over Cleveland and Boston at 17.9 percent. Picking the Lakers these days is a bit like picking the weed whacker to beat the dandelion. But surely there's reason to think that maybe, just maybe, something can pop up that will throw L.A. off-kilter. There are only three such things that come to mind-all of which are far from sure bets.

Ron Artest's head. This is an understandable concern for most because Artest has a sullied past. But although many who have been around Artest concede that he is screwy, they say that he is not destructive to a team. Houston coach Rick Adelman said of Artest, "In practice and in games, you're not going to find a guy who works harder. I loved working with Ron."

Artest himself says he can't figure out what all the worry about him in L.A. is about. "Why would I come into a championship situation and try to make trouble or anything?" Artest told Sporting News. "That is not what I do. I am going to do what Kobe (Bryant) tells me. I am going to do what Phil (Jackson) tells me. That is all I am worried about."

Andrew Bynum's knees. Injuries to each of his knees have cost Bynum 79 games the last two years. It's not really the amount of time he has missed that's the problem, though. It's when he missed that time-in the midst of his third and fourth seasons, at crucial times in his development. Now, Bynum has said he is moving away from Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's individual tutelage, and is also without coach Kurt Rambis (now in Minnesota), who worked with Bynum on a daily basis. Still, Bynum's potential remains so high that, Jackson said, "Every coach on my staff wants a piece of Andrew."

Bynum's knees were a concern when he was drafted, and the two major injuries in two years certainly count as a red flag. The Lakers need him to be a solid presence on defense and on the boards, but he can't comfortably get into that role unless his knees are 100 percent.

The motivation deficit. One of the difficult things about winning a championship is getting up and winning one again the next season. Last year, the Lakers were motivated by their disappointing loss to Boston in the 2008 Finals. Now that Kobe and Co. have a championship to their credit and have exorcised the Celtics demons, they will have to find a way to summon the same focus they had last year. Won't they?

"I don't think anybody here is worried about motivation," said forward Lamar Odom. "To me, winning a championship only makes you want to do it more."

[DPG21920]

I don't think motivation will be a problem. I don't think Ron Artest's head will be a problem. Bynum is the only real concern, but they won last year despite minimal production from him anyways.

[jonnybravo]

The guy made an article out of THAT? Those three factors have been repeated ad nauseum. Must be nice to be a writer these days. Just copy/paste forum posters.

[JoeTait75]

I think a plane crash or an earthquake are the only two things that can throw off the Lake Show, and in the latter case they can just shift the operation to Vegas and keep rolling.

[in2deep]

Celtics or Spurs

[all_heart]

I don't see the Lakers as being an improved team this year. Sure they added Artest but they lost Ariza. Their bench isn't great. They were able to stay healthy last year and were good enough to win it, I'll say that much. However the Spurs upgraded their roster, as did the Celtics, Cavs, and Orlando. A repeat won't be easy, it will be dam hard actually. I'll be suprised if they don't upgrade a spot or two before the new year.

[JoeTait75]

I'm not so sure Orlando upgraded. Yeah, the Vince is probably a better pure player than Turk, but they're more conventional now than they were before. They no longer pose the unique matchup problem they did when they had Turk running things.

Of course, they will have Jameer back healthy, so all that could be moot.

[all_heart]

I'm not so sure Orlando upgraded. Yeah, the Vince is probably a better pure player than Turk, but they're more conventional now than they were before. They no longer pose the unique matchup problem they did when they had Turk running things.

Of course, they will have Jameer back healthy, so all that could be moot.

They also got Brandon Bass too, he's a decent player.

[Culburn369]

Bynum is the only real concern, but they won last year despite minimal production from him anyways.

Though Bynum did put the screws to Howard in the Finals.

[Morg1411]

Though Bynum did put the screws to Howard in the Finals.

You've pointed this out once or twice...or twelve times...

:deadhorse

[2Cleva]

Motivation a factor on a Phil/Kobe team? He really was reaching on number 3.

Number 1 and 2 would be a real issue if both occurred.

[Culburn369]

[[[You've pointed this out once or twice...or twelve times...]]]

Ok, I'll give it a rest.

[usdane]

Well, Both Phil and Kobe likes Championships in 3's.

So the rest of the league might as well pack it up for a couple of years.

[Mavs_man_41]

the lakers are invincible, ron ron isn't crazy he's just misunderstood and bynum's knees are 100% healthy it was all just a fake plot to fool everyone the lakers have already won the west for the next 15 years they're just waiting to see if the celtics are healthy

/lakerfan

[TheMACHINE]

I don't see the Lakers as being an improved team this year. Sure they added Artest but they lost Ariza. Their bench isn't great. They were able to stay healthy last year and were good enough to win it, I'll say that much. However the Spurs upgraded their roster, as did the Celtics, Cavs, and Orlando. A repeat won't be easy, it will be dam hard actually. I'll be suprised if they don't upgrade a spot or two before the new year.

Spurs upgraded..i agree...still doesnt make them par with the Lakers. :downspin:

[Allanon]

Ron's problem isn't that he's crazy (which he is). Ron's craziness has never really hurt his team...and yes, I think Ron going into the stands at the Palace was a perfectly normal human reaction.

Ron's problem is that he's been a ball-hog, ball-chucker and ball-pounder in the past. If he can get past this part of his game, he'll be a great fit. This is up to Phil, Kobe and Ron.

Injuries to Bynum or any other key Laker players can certainly derail a championship run, but that can happen to any team.

Kobe, Pau, Fisher are all very professional players, I doubt motivation is much of an issue for them. Odom generally cruises anyways but he has alot of heart and steps up when needed. TheMachine and Farmar all had sucky years, they'll be fired up this year. Shannon Brown is still a nobody that wants to be somebody. And Phil of 3x 3-peat fame is probably the best player motivator in the NBA.

[noob cake]

Just make the Lakers play Portland, Memphis, and Charlotte for 82 games a year.

You got the injury, hax, and guaranteed loss all taken care of.

[da_suns_fan]

Three Little Things That Can Throw off Lakers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=tsn-threelittlethingstha&prov=tsn&type=lgns)
Sean Deveney
SportingNews

—> —> In the NBA's annual survey of its general managers, it was little surprise which team was picked to win this year's trophy: the Lakers, with a whopping 60.7 percent of the vote, a monumental percentage-point bulge over Cleveland and Boston at 17.9 percent. Picking the Lakers these days is a bit like picking the weed whacker to beat the dandelion. But surely there's reason to think that maybe, just maybe, something can pop up that will throw L.A. off-kilter. There are only three such things that come to mind-all of which are far from sure bets.

Ron Artest's head. This is an understandable concern for most because Artest has a sullied past. But although many who have been around Artest concede that he is screwy, they say that he is not destructive to a team. Houston coach Rick Adelman said of Artest, "In practice and in games, you're not going to find a guy who works harder. I loved working with Ron."

Artest himself says he can't figure out what all the worry about him in L.A. is about. "Why would I come into a championship situation and try to make trouble or anything?" Artest told Sporting News. "That is not what I do. I am going to do what Kobe (Bryant) tells me. I am going to do what Phil (Jackson) tells me. That is all I am worried about."

Andrew Bynum's knees. Injuries to each of his knees have cost Bynum 79 games the last two years. It's not really the amount of time he has missed that's the problem, though. It's when he missed that time-in the midst of his third and fourth seasons, at crucial times in his development. Now, Bynum has said he is moving away from Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's individual tutelage, and is also without coach Kurt Rambis (now in Minnesota), who worked with Bynum on a daily basis. Still, Bynum's potential remains so high that, Jackson said, "Every coach on my staff wants a piece of Andrew."

Bynum's knees were a concern when he was drafted, and the two major injuries in two years certainly count as a red flag. The Lakers need him to be a solid presence on defense and on the boards, but he can't comfortably get into that role unless his knees are 100 percent.

The motivation deficit. One of the difficult things about winning a championship is getting up and winning one again the next season. Last year, the Lakers were motivated by their disappointing loss to Boston in the 2008 Finals. Now that Kobe and Co. have a championship to their credit and have exorcised the Celtics demons, they will have to find a way to summon the same focus they had last year. Won't they?

"I don't think anybody here is worried about motivation," said forward Lamar Odom. "To me, winning a championship only makes you want to do it more."

1) Artest can be dismissed by Jackson the second thinks he's causing a problem. He can do this because he's Phil Jackson.

2) They didnt need Bynum to do anything last year and they won pretty easily.

3) I doubt motivation is going to be a factor in the playoffs. Especially considering the talent gap between the Lakers and everyone else. Gasol and Odom up front with Kobe in the back is just too much to handle.

[da_suns_fan]

Spurs upgraded..i agree...still doesnt make them par with the Lakers. :downspin:

The Spurs would have to get KG to be on par with the Lakers. I give Spurs fans ten games before a small minority starts admitting that Jefferson was a mistake.

[djohn2oo8]

Ron's problem isn't that he's crazy (which he is). Ron's craziness has never really hurt his team...and yes, I think Ron going into the stands at the Palace was a perfectly normal human reaction.

Ron's problem is that he's been a ball-hog, ball-chucker and ball-pounder in the past. If he can get past this part of his game, he'll be a great fit. This is up to Phil, Kobe and Ron.

Injuries to Bynum or any other key Laker players can certainly derail a championship run, but that can happen to any team.

Kobe, Pau, Fisher are all very professional players, I doubt motivation is much of an issue for them. Odom generally cruises anyways but he has alot of heart and steps up when needed. TheMachine and Farmar all had sucky years, they'll be fired up this year. Shannon Brown is still a nobody that wants to be somebody. And Phil of 3x 3-peat fame is probably the best player motivator in the NBA.

Finally, a Laker fan who understands that Ron can be a ball hog, and if he somehow becomes a team player, then Lakers repeat

[tlongII]

Actually there are three BIG things that can throw off the Lakers. Roy, Aldridge, and Oden.

[DPG21920]

Richard Jefferson a mistake? Yes, because KT, Bowen and Oberto were so much better than him. The Spurs did risk a lot taking on a head case like RJ and letting go of proven talent.

[mingus]

Ron going into the stands at the Palace was a perfectly normal human reaction.

no it's not perfectly normal human reaction. for two reasons.

1. if i get an empty cup thrown at me, i'm not going to slug anybody. the reaction isn't proportional to the offense, or even close to it. no need to fight. i think the normal reaction might be to shove the guy, or give him a heavy piece of your mind, and that's without the wieght of have to be suspended. with all that Ron had on the line, he overreacted BIG TIME. it was a crazy reaction by a crazy man, and anyone who disagrees with that is crazy, crazy.

2. he slugged who he wrongly thought was the guy that threw the cup. so not only did he overreact. he fuckin subjected the wrong guy to his reaction.

conclusion: what Ron Artest did is not by any means normal.

[DJB]

Spurs bench > Lakers bench

[DJB]

The Spurs would have to get KG to be on par with the Lakers. I give Spurs fans ten games before a small minority starts admitting that Jefferson was a mistake.

How's Robin Lopez working out for you?

[da_suns_fan]

Richard Jefferson a mistake? Yes, because KT, Bowen and Oberto were so much better than him. The Spurs did risk a lot taking on a head case like RJ and letting go of proven talent.

No, because the Spurs put all their eggs in one basket by agreeing to take on a one-dimensional player with a huge contract who doesnt fill any of their needs.

[da_suns_fan]

How's Robin Lopez working out for you?

Robin Lopez sucks. And?

[iggypop123]

there is only 1 thing that can throw off the lakers. injuries. thats it. they won not at 100% last yr but you dont want to go into a finals at less than full strength

[DJB]

Robin Lopez sucks. And?

Your entire franchise sucks. Quit talking shit about other teams when the one you represent tanked harder than the titanic. Fucking suns, lmao.

[da_suns_fan]

Your entire franchise sucks. Quit talking shit about other teams when the one you represent tanked harder than the titanic. Fucking suns, lmao.

:lol

Well I didnt know that the Suns "tanked". Im not sure you understand what that means in an NBA context.

Regardless, I can change my team affiliation. If Im da_Celtics_fan, would that change the fact that Richard freaking Jefferson aint gonna matter against Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom?

btw - Gratz on coming up with a new definition of "talking shit". Im stating my opinion, jackass. Dont get your panties in a wad because you dont like it.

[da_suns_fan]

there is only 1 thing that can throw off the lakers. injuries. thats it. they won not at 100% last yr but you dont want to go into a finals at less than full strength

I'd agree with that.

[completely deck]

Whats funny is the media is giving the Lakers all the motivation they need. We should be the favorites, but they way the media is writing it, it seems we're the underdog. I love it when they say Artest is going to go Jihad in LA.

:violin

Shut the fuck up

[all_heart]

The Spurs would have to get KG to be on par with the Lakers. I give Spurs fans ten games before a small minority starts admitting that Jefferson was a mistake.

Yea right, wishful thinking on your part. You'll be surprised how just a couple talented players can close the gap significantly.. and add in a healthy Manu. The Lakers bench is going to get exposed big time this year.

[tlongII]

The Lakers and their fans know who their biggest threat is. I'll leave it at that.

[Agloco]

Well, the biggest X-Factor for the Lakers this year is Ron Ron. lol @ Lakerfans who don't comprehend that:


Whats funny is the media is giving the Lakers all the motivation they need. We should be the favorites, but they way the media is writing it, it seems we're the underdog. I love it when they say Artest is going to go Jihad in LA.

He's off to a great start by laying out his plans for becoming a professional boxer in about 4 years time. Sign of a really focused mind........

He's not gong Jihad, just boxing. But hey, what's the difference right? :lmao

[daslicer]

I actually think this is the last year the Lakers will be favored to go the finals. I don't think they will be able to do it next year because its literally impossible to go to the finals 4 times in a row during this era due to injuries and trades. They have already gone 2 years in a row I would say this is the last time if they do before either trades,injuries,free agency happens and the league adjusts to them.

[da_suns_fan]

Yea right, wishful thinking on your part. You'll be surprised how just a couple talented players can close the gap significantly.. and add in a healthy Manu. The Lakers bench is going to get exposed big time this year.

Wait..so I WANT the Lakers to have the talent gap?

If the Lakers lost Odom, I would have said that Spurs had a pretty good shot of dethroning them.

But I just dont see it happening now. Theres too much talent and basketball IQ in the front court and back court. And Richard Jefferson was NOT the answer.

[21_Blessings]

The Lakers and their fans know who their biggest threat is. I'll leave it at that.

A driveby shooting grazing the Lakers team bus?

[j.dizzle]

The Lakers and their fans know who their biggest threat is. I'll leave it at that.
The Lakers biggest threat is that nobody on the team falls into Bynums knee again :lol

[Culburn369]

I actually think this is the last year the Lakers will be favored to go the finals. I don't think they will be able to do it next year because its literally impossible to go to the finals 4 times in a row during this era due to injuries and trades. They have already gone 2 years in a row I would say this is the last time if they do before either trades,injuries,free agency happens and the league adjusts to them.

tee, hee.

[all_heart]

Wait..so I WANT the Lakers to have the talent gap?

If the Lakers lost Odom, I would have said that Spurs had a pretty good shot of dethroning them.

But I just dont see it happening now. Theres too much talent and basketball IQ in the front court and back court. And Richard Jefferson was NOT the answer.

I don't care what you want.
Obviously any team that loses a quality player will go downhill, especially w/out a decent backup. You can't possibly be talking about the Lakers bench, sure they got a good core group but that's about it. RJ is a quality player so I don't know how he doesn't help the Spurs. So it sounds to me like you were just talking shit at that point.

[da_suns_fan]

I don't care what you want.
Obviously any team that loses a quality player will go downhill, especially w/out a decent backup. You can't possibly be talking about the Lakers bench, sure they got a good core group but that's about it. RJ is a quality player so I don't know how he doesn't help the Spurs. So it sounds to me like you were just talking shit at that point.

Well I dont doubt RJ is a "quality" NBA player. My thoughts are that his arrival completely removes the Spurs from the Bosh discussion for next season (or any othe marquee free agent) and thus, they are putting all their eggs in one basket.

Further, in the areas where the Spurs needed help (playmaking, rebounding, capable role-playing), Jefferson fills none of these needs. He's a pretty weak creator of offense and does better finishing for others in an up-tempo system.

Further, Tony Parker likes to finish himself and isnt known for setting up teammates. Ginobili is very good and drive and pitch but then we're just talking about three point shooting. In addition, Jefferson's numbers are going to come way down this year as his number of shot attempts will go down. Given his bloated salaray, he'll be pretty much un-tradeable for anything other than expiring contracts.

Personally, I thought the Spurs should have gotten after Ariza which would have filled the rebouding and role-playing needs while leaving them with enough cap space to be a player in the free agent market next summer.

We'll just have to wait and see.

[Flux451]

Ron's problem isn't that he's crazy (which he is). Ron's craziness has never really hurt his team...and yes, I think Ron going into the stands at the Palace was a perfectly normal human reaction.

Ron's problem is that he's been a ball-hog, ball-chucker and ball-pounder in the past. If he can get past this part of his game, he'll be a great fit. This is up to Phil, Kobe and Ron.

Injuries to Bynum or any other key Laker players can certainly derail a championship run, but that can happen to any team.

Kobe, Pau, Fisher are all very professional players, I doubt motivation is much of an issue for them. Odom generally cruises anyways but he has alot of heart and steps up when needed. TheMachine and Farmar all had sucky years, they'll be fired up this year. Shannon Brown is still a nobody that wants to be somebody. And Phil of 3x 3-peat fame is probably the best player motivator in the NBA.

Good take.

I think the same about Artest. I am curious to see what happens when the game is on the line. I know the stipulations will vary but I wonder if he will really listen to Kobe when he feels its Artest time. When you watch the Lakers, there really aren't a lot of ill-advised shots going on. Vujacic is a person that comes to mind but his PT was not around last year. Artest must keep his ball chucking to a minimum.

I think he will be a target for some opposing players trying to get under his skin, but I think, mentally, he will be 70/30 on the court. Where 70 is controlled by Phil/Kobe and 30 by the bright lights of LA and becoming a celebrity. We saw how that changed Rodman.

[all_heart]

Well I dont doubt RJ is a "quality" NBA player. My thoughts are that his arrival completely removes the Spurs from the Bosh discussion for next season (or any othe marquee free agent) and thus, they are putting all their eggs in one basket.

Further, in the areas where the Spurs needed help (playmaking, rebounding, capable role-playing), Jefferson fills none of these needs. He's a pretty weak creator of offense and does better finishing for others in an up-tempo system.

Further, Tony Parker likes to finish himself and isnt known for setting up teammates. Ginobili is very good and drive and pitch but then we're just talking about three point shooting. In addition, Jefferson's numbers are going to come way down this year as his number of shot attempts will go down. Given his bloated salaray, he'll be pretty much un-tradeable for anything other than expiring contracts.

Personally, I thought the Spurs should have gotten after Ariza which would have filled the rebouding and role-playing needs while leaving them with enough cap space to be a player in the free agent market next summer.

We'll just have to wait and see.

One of the Spurs problems was scoring droughts, RJ should help alleviate this. While he won't put up big numbers, he'll contribute on both sides of the ball, so big numbers aren't really required. It's not like Bowen and Udoka were scoring and rebounding machines. As far as rebounding, Dice and some young guy named Blair will help that.
As far as next year's free agency, the Spurs most likely weren't going to land an over the top player. Spurs are in a win now mode. RJ will be fine, so will the Spurs.

[Culburn369]

Where 70 is controlled by Phil/Kobe and 30 by the bright lights of LA and becoming a celebrity. We saw how that changed Rodman.

How do you splain Rodman changin' in San Antonio?

[DPG21920]

No, because the Spurs put all their eggs in one basket by agreeing to take on a one-dimensional player with a huge contract who doesnt fill any of their needs.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I guess that comes with being a Suns fan and watching that garbage team with that garbage front office.

Adding RJ might not be enough to beat the Lakers, but that does not mean it was a mistake.

[Flux451]

How do you splain Rodman changin' in San Antonio?

The Madonna relationship, headbutting fools, sitting down on the court during a game, refusing to leave after being ejected. He changed a lot after Detroit. He was one of the bad boys but in SA he went south for sure.

It was a product of environment and personal issues combined. I am sure Artest won't follow suit. It was an extreme scenario I put out there.

[2Cleva]

Adding RJ might not be enough to beat the Lakers, but that does not mean it was a mistake.

Agreed.

[hater]

the 4th thing:
slutty white hotel workers

[Culburn369]

the 4th thing:
slutty white hotel workers

Though the cad did ring/sans Daddy in spite of your 4th thing.

tee, hee.

[da_suns_fan]

You have no idea what you are talking about. I guess that comes with being a Suns fan and watching that garbage team with that garbage front office.

Adding RJ might not be enough to beat the Lakers, but that does not mean it was a mistake.

So I dont know what Im talking about but you dont refute any of my arguments?

I just dont see Jefferson mixing in well with the Spurs. Given his salary, I think Spurs fan will eventually come to the realization the trading for him was a mistake.

A lot of Spurs fans only look at the trade from a Oberto/Bowen/Udoka vs. Jefferson perspective which is pretty short-sighted. Keeping those guys and letting their contracts expire would have put the Spurs in position to go after a marquee free agent. With Ginobili and Duncan getting older, next summer would have been the perfect time to get a franchise type player to pair with Parker for the next decade.

But according to you, being that Im a Suns means that I made the decisions the front office of the team that I root for made, thus I have no credibility. :rolleyes

Grow up, douche.

[all_heart]

So I dont know what Im talking about but you dont refute any of my arguments?

I just dont see Jefferson mixing in well with the Spurs. Given his salary, I think Spurs fan will eventually come to the realization the trading for him was a mistake.

A lot of Spurs fans only look at the trade from a Oberto/Bowen/Udoka vs. Jefferson perspective which is pretty short-sighted. Keeping those guys and letting their contracts expire would have put the Spurs in position to go after a marquee free agent. With Ginobili and Duncan getting older, next summer would have been the perfect time to get a franchise type player to pair with Parker for the next decade.

But according to you, being that Im a Suns means that I made the decisions the front office of the team that I root for made, thus I have no credibility. :rolleyes

Grow up, douche.

So Suns fan, if you think you are so smart, why aren't you working in some front office somewhere?! Like I mentioned before, Spurs weren't winning with the roster they had last year, even Pop admitted it. But now all the players including coach Pop are feeling good about their chances.... however you being the armchair GM think you know better?! You sound like a closet bandwagon Lakers fan, I guess it still hurts 2 years later huh?!:rollin

[da_suns_fan]

So Suns fan, if you think you are so smart, why aren't you working in some front office somewhere?! Like I mentioned before, Spurs weren't winning with the roster they had last year, even Pop admitted it. But now all the players including coach Pop are feeling good about their chances.... however you being the armchair GM think you know better?! You sound like a closet bandwagon Lakers fan, I guess it still hurts 2 years later huh?!:rollin

Wow.

Yeah, Im a closet Laker fan. Because everyone knows now is NOT the time to be open about your allegiance to the Lakers since they did so horrible last year. I have to hide behind the shining beacon of championships that is the Phoenix Suns, but deep down I wish I could let everyone know how much I love Kobe, the most arrogant, phony jackass ever to play sports.

Im glad you think I should be working as a GM somewhere, though.

And again, no one refutes my points, just more ad-hominem arguments.

[hater]

No, because the Spurs put all their eggs in one basket by agreeing to take on a one-dimensional player with a huge contract who doesnt fill any of their needs.

he is a near allstar, can create his own plays, can defend the bigger guards/SF, can score 20ppg and shoots 40%+ from 3.

yeah, he does not fit our needs at all :rolleyes

[da_suns_fan]

he is a near allstar, can create his own plays, can defend the bigger guards and shoots 40%+ from 3.

yeah, he does not fit our needs at all :rolleyes

1) He's NEVER been an all-star and I doubt he ever will be in his career.

2) He cant create his own plays. He has poor ball handling, makes bad decisions and cant go to his left. Hes more athlete than basketball player.

3) Defend bigger guards? Better than who? Ginobili? Finley? Certainly not Bowen. You think Jefferson is gonna make a difference against Kobe Bryant? You think he's gonna defend Nash as well as Bowen did? Bowen is retired so that point might be completely mute, but Jefferson is no elite defender. Hollinger's latest scouting report points out how little effot he gives chasing through screens. If Boston and LA are the Spurs' main competition, I'll take Ray Allen and Kobe's chances against Richard Jefferson any day of the week.

4) Im sure he'll shoot 40% from 3 in the corners. And it only cost you 29 million dollars (for two seasons).

Now lets say the Spurs signed Ariza. T.A. plays defense just as good as RJ. In fact, I'd say hes more natural defender than RJ. Ariza can hit the three pointer and he's even proven he can do it in clutch times like the finals. Ariza rebounds very well for a 3 and runs the floor just as well as RJ.

Biggest difference? Ariza does a lot more when he's not scoring and costs about 1/3 the price.

[DPG21920]

So I dont know what Im talking about but you dont refute any of my arguments?

I just dont see Jefferson mixing in well with the Spurs. Given his salary, I think Spurs fan will eventually come to the realization the trading for him was a mistake.

A lot of Spurs fans only look at the trade from a Oberto/Bowen/Udoka vs. Jefferson perspective which is pretty short-sighted. Keeping those guys and letting their contracts expire would have put the Spurs in position to go after a marquee free agent. With Ginobili and Duncan getting older, next summer would have been the perfect time to get a franchise type player to pair with Parker for the next decade.

But according to you, being that Im a Suns means that I made the decisions the front office of the team that I root for made, thus I have no credibility. :rolleyes

Grow up, douche.

There is no need to explain things to someone like you. You can say throw away lines such as "grow up, douche", but the fact of the matter is you are either trolling or you are so dumb with regards to basketball nothing anyone will say can help you.

Being a Suns fan has certainly not helped you.

[da_suns_fan]

There is no need to explain things to someone like you. You can say throw away lines such as "grow up, douche", but the fact of the matter is you are either trolling or you are so dumb with regards to basketball nothing anyone will say can help you.

Being a Suns fan has certainly not helped you.

Sounds like your upset because I bust your bubble. I would love to hear any additional reasons you think Jefferson was a good move or worth the price.

Then again, you think Im too stupid to understand.

I guess Hollinger is too stupid too:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=sf&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtr ue%26pos%3dsf%26seasonType%3d2

Maybe I should apply at ESPN. I didnt even need any fancy SQL queries to come to my conclusions. :lol

[Morg1411]

Sounds like your upset because I bust your bubble. I would love to hear any additional reasons you think Jefferson was a good move or worth the price.

Then again, you think Im too stupid to understand.

I guess Hollinger is too stupid too:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=sf&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtr ue%26pos%3dsf%26seasonType%3d2

Maybe I should apply at ESPN. I didnt even need any fancy SQL queries to come to my conclusions. :lol

Yeah, you're awesome. You've also convinced yourself that your right, you're not actually listening to other people's arguments as opposed to just shooting them down out of spite, and you apparently love to agree with yourself.

[phyzik]

Sounds like your upset because I bust your bubble. I would love to hear any additional reasons you think Jefferson was a good move or worth the price.

Then again, you think Im too stupid to understand.

I guess Hollinger is too stupid too:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=sf&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtr ue%26pos%3dsf%26seasonType%3d2

Maybe I should apply at ESPN. I didnt even need any fancy SQL queries to come to my conclusions. :lol

I dont know about you, but I'll take the 15th best SF (based off of PER) in the league as my 4th man. Hell, chances are, him not being the go to guy will probably help him increase his PER if anything. Nevermind that him and the GREAT Artest are only separated by a mere 2 tenths of a point in that category.

[hater]

1) He's NEVER been an all-star and I doubt he ever will be in his career.

I said near allstar. that is a fact



2) He cant create his own plays. He has poor ball handling, makes bad decisions and cant go to his left. Hes more athlete than basketball player.


mmm your word vs. Pop's and RC Bufords... I'll take theirs :lol



3) Defend bigger guards? Better than who? Ginobili? Finley? Certainly not Bowen. You think Jefferson is gonna make a difference against Kobe Bryant? You think he's gonna defend Nash as well as Bowen did? Bowen is retired so that point might be completely mute, but Jefferson is no elite defender. Hollinger's latest scouting report points out how little effot he gives chasing through screens. If Boston and LA are the Spurs' main competition, I'll take Ray Allen and Kobe's chances against Richard Jefferson any day of the week.


didn't say he is elite. He can hold his own vs. bigger guards/sf that is a fact



4) Im sure he'll shoot 40% from 3 in the corners. And it only cost you 29 million dollars (for two seasons).


that's just one of the things he brings



Now lets say the Spurs signed Ariza. T.A. plays defense just as good as RJ. In fact, I'd say hes more natural defender than RJ. Ariza can hit the three pointer and he's even proven he can do it in clutch times like the finals. Ariza rebounds very well for a 3 and runs the floor just as well as RJ.

Biggest difference? Ariza does a lot more when he's not scoring and costs about 1/3 the price.

RJ >>> Ariza

oh and take Hollinger's dick out of your mouth before posting

[hater]

let's see, had RJ been traded to Suns, he'd instantly be the 3rd best player

[da_suns_fan]

let's see, had RJ been traded to Suns, he'd instantly be the 3rd best player

We already have a Richard Jefferson. His name is Jason Richardson. I would trade him in a heart beat (but not for Richard Jefferson).

[hater]

We already have a Richard Jefferson. His name is Jason Richardson. I would trade him in a heart beat (but not for Richard Jefferson).

funny, I would not trade Jefferson for Richardson in 1000000 years

[da_suns_fan]

I said near allstar. that is a fact

:lol

This one is funny. Do you know what the word "fact" means? I dont want to be too mean, but the idiocy is someone claiming that it is a "fact" that anyone is a "near" all-star is humorous. Whether or not he is a near all-star is completely subjective. The only FACT is that he's never made an all-star team. And I doubt he ever will.




mmm your word vs. Pop's and RC Bufords... I'll take theirs :lol

Not just mine. Dont forget that two teams have already bailed on Jefferson. One for cap space.




didn't say he is elite. He can hold his own vs. bigger guards/sf that is a fact
:lol

More with the "facts" game. I cant disprove that Jefferson defends bigger guards/sf anymoe than you can prove it so I'll leave it alone. But Im pretty sure Kobe's gonna do whatever he wants against Richard Jefferson.




that's just one of the things he brings

It actually one of two needs I think he fills for the Spurs. Corner three point shooting and runs the floor well.




RJ >>> Ariza

Are we talking about salaries? Cuz RJ makes well over twice as much. Ariza certainly rebounds and produces a greater amount of steals than RJ. RJ is a better jump shooter. Thats probably it.




oh and take Hollinger's dick out of your mouth before posting

Just cuz you slob all over anyone in sliver and black doesnt mean I have any man love for Hollinger. Im not the biggest Hollinger fan, but I have to give Kudos for PERFECTLY stating my point. Maybe theres something to his analysis. :lol

[phyzik]

We already have a Richard Jefferson. His name is Jason Richardson. I would trade him in a heart beat (but not for Richard Jefferson).

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=sg&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtr ue%26pos%3dsg%26seasonType%3d2

Keep in mind, RJ was often the first option on his last team. I hope I dont have to explain myself by saying that.

Was Jason richardson ever the first option on a team? and if so, what was his PER at that time?

[DPG21920]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=sg&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtr ue%26pos%3dsg%26seasonType%3d2

Keep in mind, RJ was often the first option on his last team. I hope I dont have to explain myself by saying that.

Was Jason richardson ever the first option on a team? and if so, what was his PER at that time?

So Leandro Barbosa is > Joe Johnson. It is also funny how DSF said the Spurs should have waited to get Joe Johnson. Why not Barbosa? Because Hollinger says Barbosa is better than Joe Johnson by PER and Joe is way overpaid compared to what a guy like Barbosa can give you. Just like the Ariza vs RJ comparison.

[Culburn369]

[[[This one is funny. Do you know what the word "fact" means? I dont want to be too mean, but the idiocy is someone claiming that it is a "fact" that anyone is a "near" all-star is humorous. Whether or not he is a near all-star is completely subjective. The only FACT is that he's never made an all-star team. And I doubt he ever will.]]]

da is correct here, hater. You look like a dipshit saying "near" like that.

[da_suns_fan]

So Leandro Barbosa is > Joe Johnson. It is also funny how DSF said the Spurs should have waited to get Joe Johnson. Why not Barbosa? Because Hollinger says Barbosa is better than Joe Johnson by PER and Joe is way overpaid compared to what a guy like Barbosa can give you. Just like the Ariza vs RJ comparison.

I guess that true. But one thing, if you go to phxsuns.net, you'll see that Ive been on a crusade to trade J-Rich because Ive been trying to point out how ridiculously awesome LB's numbers were as a starter (they completely blow away J-Rich and he's not gonna come off the bench). I feel that LB has paid his dues and deserves to start. So while I dont agree that LB is a better player than JJ, I would say I could understand that their contributions on a per minute basis were similar considering LBs stats are pretty fantastic on a per minute basis. Further, If I had to make a choice between having LB at 6 million versus having JJ at 14, I think you gotta take LB, right? Especially if taking LB meant it would position me to get ANOTHER superstar the following season (as taking Ariza would have positioned the Spurs for next summer).

Also, LB isnt a free agent next season (thank god). Joe Johnson is. Thats why I picked out JJ. Plus, everyone seems to have come to conclusion that Bosh was a pipe-dream (which is convenient considering RJ took them out of the free agent market for next year), so I pointed out that theres a completely obtainable All-Star available who will go ANYWHERE for the right price. But that option is history because the Spurs "put all their eggs in one basket" by trading for RJ even though a cheaper, younger, better suited player was available in Trevor Ariza.

[da_suns_fan]

da is correct here, hater. You look like a dipshit saying "near" like that.

Thank you, Cubby.

[da_suns_fan]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=sg&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtr ue%26pos%3dsg%26seasonType%3d2

Keep in mind, RJ was often the first option on his last team. I hope I dont have to explain myself by saying that.

Was Jason richardson ever the first option on a team? and if so, what was his PER at that time?

Not sure but thanks for posting this. As I said in an earlier post, Ive been trying to convince my fellow Suns fans that we dont need J-Rich and we should dump him for the first offer we get!! PER shows LB was the fifth best SG in the league and was MUCH more effective than J-Rich. So many Suns fans are so used to having LB off the bench they just cant fathom him starting.

[Culburn369]

Thank you, Cubby.

You're most welcome, old horse.

I am flabbergasted that he left himself that weak. I had to read it about 5 times before I realized he'd actually said it.

[phyzik]

Not sure but thanks for posting this. As I said in an earlier post, Ive been trying to convince my fellow Suns fans that we dont need J-Rich and we should dump him for the first offer we get!! PER shows LB was the fifth best SG in the league and was MUCH more effective than J-Rich. So many Suns fans are so used to having LB off the bench they just cant fathom him starting.

No Problem, I like Richardson. Just dont discredit what RJ can bring to the Spurs as a FOURTH option, doing so is rediculous. I would agree with your arguement if he was MAYBE the 2nd or 3rd option, but he is not.

the 15th best SF in the league (acording to PER which I dont follow religiously) is the Spurs 4TH option!!! Im not saying its a guaranteed LOB at all, but just think about that. A 1st option on another team is the Spurs 4th option. Seriously... think about that.

Also, not to discredit your eye for talent as far as chamionships go, but you ARE a fucking Suns fan. :downspin:

[Culburn369]

Im not saying its a guaranteed LOB at all, but just think about that.

phy, are you saying: "it's near an LOB and that's a fact?"

[all_heart]

phy, are you saying: "it's near an LOB and that's a fact?"

yea, like the Lakers 2 yrs ago:lol

[phyzik]

phy, are you saying: "it's near an LOB and that's a fact?"

no, more like:

The Spurs will most likely win it, but shit happens sometimes.

tee, hee.

[Culburn369]

no, more like:

The Spurs will most likely win it, but shit happens sometimes.

tee, hee.


:toast

[Mr. Body]

The Lakers will have been one of the more unworthy repeat champions if they win it this year. But, maybe they will.

[Culburn369]

The Lakers will have been one of the more unworthy repeat champions if they win it this year. But, maybe they will.

You'd give yer left nut (to Jazzy for his Corn Flakes) to be so unworthy a repeat champion.

[da_suns_fan]

No Problem, I like Richardson. Just dont discredit what RJ can bring to the Spurs as a FOURTH option, doing so is rediculous. I would agree with your arguement if he was MAYBE the 2nd or 3rd option, but he is not.

the 15th best SF in the league (acording to PER which I dont follow religiously) is the Spurs 4TH option!!! Im not saying its a guaranteed LOB at all, but just think about that. A 1st option on another team is the Spurs 4th option. Seriously... think about that.

Also, not to discredit your eye for talent as far as chamionships go, but you ARE a fucking Suns fan. :downspin:

Wow. That went right over your head. You like Richardson? I dont! That was my point. He's a completely one-dimensional player just like Richard Jefferson.

Also, any team with Jefferson as a first option would win 10 games. Any team with Jefferson as a second option would win whatever Milwaukee won last year (actually, maybe he was the thid option). They whole "options" talk is LAZY because basketball is not football. Theres no quarterback looking at different receivers, making reads. If Richard Jefferson only gets to take shots when the "option" of Parker, Ginobili and Duncan have fallen through, then Spurs are really fucked considering Jefferson doesnt do anything besides take shots! They'll basically have a useless player anytime all four are out there. Lastly, before you get too giddy about having the 15th best SF as your "fourth option", take a look at the list and see how many players ABOVE Jefferson in PER that are the respective "fourth options" for their team:

Artest (actually, I guess he's the "fifth" option for the Lakers), Corey Maggette (or STephen Jackson..take ur pick), Marvin Williams, John Salmons, Josh Howard (maybe...Kidd, Dirk and Terry are a higher priority?), Caron Butler (same).

Also, youre a fucking idiot. My eye for talent is bad because Im a Suns fan? So you werent a Spurs fan until they won a championship? Are you calling yourself a band-wagon fan. Nice job, douche-bag.

[Allanon]

Also, youre a fucking idiot. My eye for talent is bad because Im a Suns fan? So you werent a Spurs fan until they won a championship? Are you calling yourself a band-wagon fan. Nice job, douche-bag.

Clueless sunfan. :lol

[da_suns_fan]

Some takes from Spurs fans angry at me for calling the Jefferson trade a mistake:



he is a near allstar, can create his own plays, can defend the bigger guards/SF, can score 20ppg and shoots 40%+ from 3.

yeah, he does not fit our needs at all :rolleyes


So Suns fan, if you think you are so smart, why aren't you working in some front office somewhere?! Like I mentioned before, Spurs weren't winning with the roster they had last year, even Pop admitted it. But now all the players including coach Pop are feeling good about their chances.... however you being the armchair GM think you know better?! You sound like a closet bandwagon Lakers fan, I guess it still hurts 2 years later huh?!:rollin


You have no idea what you are talking about. I guess that comes with being a Suns fan and watching that garbage team with that garbage front office.

Adding RJ might not be enough to beat the Lakers, but that does not mean it was a mistake.


One of the Spurs problems was scoring droughts, RJ should help alleviate this. While he won't put up big numbers, he'll contribute on both sides of the ball, so big numbers aren't really required. It's not like Bowen and Udoka were scoring and rebounding machines. As far as rebounding, Dice and some young guy named Blair will help that.
As far as next year's free agency, the Spurs most likely weren't going to land an over the top player. Spurs are in a win now mode. RJ will be fine, so will the Spurs.


I dont know about you, but I'll take the 15th best SF (based off of PER) in the league as my 4th man. Hell, chances are, him not being the go to guy will probably help him increase his PER if anything. Nevermind that him and the GREAT Artest are only separated by a mere 2 tenths of a point in that category.


Yea right, wishful thinking on your part. You'll be surprised how just a couple talented players can close the gap significantly.. and add in a healthy Manu. The Lakers bench is going to get exposed big time this year.


There is no need to explain things to someone like you. You can say throw away lines such as "grow up, douche", but the fact of the matter is you are either trolling or you are so dumb with regards to basketball nothing anyone will say can help you.

Being a Suns fan has certainly not helped you.

Just the typical shit Im used to dealing with. Im the bringer of truth.

[DPG21920]

You are wrong. The trade itself was not a mistake - re-signing him was.

[midnightpulp]

All those posters, aside from DPG, are irrelevant or consistently bring bad takes (hater).

And DPG tends to be optimistic about things, so I can understand him propping up RJ.

Furthermore, you're on a Spurs forum. Of course fans here are going to be hopeful about their new high-profile free agent. But any objective fan knew RJ was a big gamble. I wasn't too thrilled with the signing at the time.