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George Gervin's Afro
10-07-2009, 10:15 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33214558/ns/politics-health_care_reform/page/2/


CBO: Health care bill to cost $829 billion
Budget experts say proposal would cover 94 percent of Americans

Baucus bill estimated at $829 billion
Care harder to afford for women
Health care by the numbers
A bad day to oppose health reform


WASHINGTON - Health care legislation drafted by a key Senate committee would expand coverage to 94 percent of all eligible Americans at a 10-year cost of $829 billion, congressional budget experts said Wednesday, a preliminary estimate likely to power the measure past a major hurdle within days.

The Congressional Budget Office added that the measure would reduce federal deficits by $81 billion over a decade and probably lead to "continued reductions in federal budget deficits" in the years beyond.

The report paves the way for the Senate Finance Committee to vote as early as Friday on the legislation, which is largely in line with President Barack Obama's call for the most sweeping overhaul of the nation's health care system in a half-century.

At the White House, spokesman Reid Cherlin said the analysis "confirms that we can provide stability and security for Americans with insurance and affordable options for uninsured Americans without adding a dime to the deficit and saving money over the long term."

Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., the committee chairman and principal architect of the measure, hailed the estimates within moments of receiving them.

"This legislation, I believe, is a smart investment on our federal balance sheet. It's an even smarter investment for American families, businesses and our economy," he said on the Senate floor.

Middle of the road
The committee Baucus chairs is the fifth and last of the congressional panels to debate health care. The Senate Finance version has a decided middle-of-the-road flavor, shunning any provision for the government to sell insurance in competition with private industry. That provision, strongly favored by many Democrats and just as strongly opposed by Republicans, is still alive in proposed House versions of the legislation.

The Finance Committee bill does not require businesses to offer coverage to their workers, either, although large firms that do not would be required to offset the cost of any government subsidies going to those employees.


While generally positive about the legislation's effects, the report contained important caveats.


One noted that the estimate does not include the costs of proposed payment increases for doctors serving Medicare patients, roughly $200 billion through 2019. Additionally, a so-called fail-safe mechanism to hold spending in line could result in cuts as large as 15 percent in federal subsidies designed to help the poor afford insurance, CBO said.


Beginning in 2013, the measure would require that millions of Americans purchase private insurance for the first time, and would set up a new marketplace where policies would be available. Failure to obey the requirement would result in penalties of up to $750 per family.

Oct. 7: The Congressional Budget Office estimates the cost of the Senate Finance Committee's health care reform plan at $829 billion over 10 years, lower than analysts had expected.
Nightly News


Federal subsidies would be available to millions of lower-income individuals and families to help defray the cost of coverage that would otherwise be out of their reach. The alternative to government-sold health care, a proposal for nonprofit co-ops that would compete with private companies, was judged largely ineffective by budget officials. Such arrangements "seem unlikely to establish a significant medical presence in many areas of the country," they wrote.

The legislation also would ban current insurance industry practices that deny coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions, and restrict companies' ability to charge vastly higher premiums on the basis of age, gender or other factors.

Compromise legislation
The measure would be paid for through a variety of tax increases and spending cuts, including savings of hundreds of billions of dollars from Medicare, the federal health care program for seniors.

Democratic leaders in both houses are hoping to hold votes on health care on the floor of the House and Senate within a few weeks.

Anticipating approval by the Finance Committee this week, Majority Leader Harry Reid is already overseeing efforts to merge that bill with an alternative approved by the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions.

Reid is subject to intense cross-pressures, not only from the members of the two committees, but also from the Obama administration and rank-and-file senators seeking to mold the legislation to their liking.

Reid also must take into account the likely need to amass 60 votes behind any legislation., the majority needed to overcome any Republican filibuster.

'Under the proposal'
Baucus has expressed confidence he has the votes for his measure inside the Finance Committee, and the major lingering question there is whether Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, will break ranks with fellow Republicans and vote for it. She has been steadily noncommittal in public statements, but is under pressure from her own party to oppose the legislation.

Wednesday's report to Baucus from CBO's director, Dr. Douglas Elmendorf, stressed that the estimates were preliminary.

It said that by 2019, "the number of nonelderly people who are uninsured would be reduced by about 29 million," either through private insurance or by enrolling in federal programs. That would leave an additional 25 million uninsured, about one-third of them illegal immigrants who are not eligible for coverage under the bill.

"Under the proposal, the share of legal nonelderly residents with insurance coverage would rise from about 83 percent currently to about 94 percent," Elmendorf said. Elderly Americans are eligible for coverage under the federal Medicare program.

The report was released as House Democrats met privately to consider ways to hold the cost of their version of the legislation to the $900 billion 10-year limit that Obama has set.

Officials said one of the options under review would add as many as 7 million lower-income individuals to Medicaid, the federal-state health care program for the poor. It would be cheaper for the government to cover costs under that program than to pay subsidies designed to make private insurance affordable for the same group. Aides put the savings at about $25 billion over 10 years.


Separately, House Republicans held a news conference Wednesday to criticize proposals for trimming Medicare, the federal health care program for seniors, by more than $500 billion over a decade. Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo., said the effect would be to "put Medicare in jeopardy to put money into a new program" of health care.

Blunt and Reps. Nathan Deal, R-Ga., and Adam Putnam, R-Fla., said Medicare could be trimmed to eliminate waste and fraud, but they did not say how much could safely be saved. Rep. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., said she opposed any cuts in projected spending under the program.


dead enders you guys are f*cked..:lmao

MiamiHeat
10-08-2009, 01:04 AM
the measure would require that millions of Americans purchase private insurance for the first time, and would set up a new marketplace where policies would be available. Failure to obey the requirement would result in penalties of up to $750 per family.

what the f? lol

so families don't really have a choice. buy health care or we fine you

what the fuck is that shit. someone explain that one

baseline bum
10-08-2009, 01:17 AM
I'm writing my congress right now to tell them they'll never get another vote of mine if this fucking blowjob to the insurance companies happens. Baucus should be hanged right in front of the capitol. The senate can all go fuck themselves with an AIDS-infected dildo, and so can Obama if he signs this piece of shit into law. I'm done with the democratic party if this becomes law. No public option means no reason for the insurance companies to stop taking huge tributes from our medical payments. Fuck Baucus for this huge subsidy to the paper pushers.

j.dizzle
10-08-2009, 03:10 AM
hahaha our government must be joking will all this shit right??? hahaa 829 billion..more like double that..the government cant even handle cash for clunkers, who the hell thinks they can handle this??

MiamiHeat
10-08-2009, 03:23 AM
I'm writing my congress right now to tell them they'll never get another vote of mine if this fucking blowjob to the insurance companies happens. Baucus should be hanged right in front of the capitol. The senate can all go fuck themselves with an AIDS-infected dildo, and so can Obama if he signs this piece of shit into law. I'm done with the democratic party if this becomes law. No public option means no reason for the insurance companies to stop taking huge tributes from our medical payments. Fuck Baucus for this huge subsidy to the paper pushers.

can you explain this part to me?

the measure would require that millions of Americans purchase private insurance for the first time, and would set up a new marketplace where policies would be available. Failure to obey the requirement would result in penalties of up to $750 per family.

is that saying what it sounds like? are they fucking crazy? I even read somewhere that it will be a misdemeanor charge?

boutons_deux
10-08-2009, 04:01 AM
the health insurance companies are bitching about the puny penalty of $1500, they want it nearer $4000 to force more victims into their greedy clutches.

Repugs defending the for-exorbitant-profit insurance companies in every way.

Exchanges, if they pass, will even be forbidden to people who have employer insurance, so they can't go shopping for cheaper insurance (aka less profits for insurers). I'd call that restraint of trade, but the business-friendly Repug/conservative whores call that "free market".

CosmicCowboy
10-08-2009, 08:31 AM
Insurance for individuals averages $300+ a month. A $750 fine for not having insurance is ridiculously low.

And the 829 billion cost assumes they are going to find 500 BILLION in savings in Mecicare?

what the fuck? They know theres not 500 billion of waste in medicare. Even a better question, is IF there really is 500 billion of fraud and abuse in medicare WHY THE FUCK haven't they already fixed it?

101A
10-08-2009, 09:08 AM
OK - let's just assume all these number are accurate - the government can, for the first time in history, deliver something for the cost estimated by the CBO - AND that included in that is $500,000,000 SAVINGS in Medicare (don't understand why we don't just DO that).

That is STILL nearly $6500 per month for each additional person receiving coverage - even though MANY people are going to be paying for their OWN coverage; not with govt. subsidy!!!!

What's great about that? I agree, looks like a big cash payout INTO the healthcare industry; NOT controlling costs; increasing them exponentially!

AND it leaves 18 million people STILL uninsured!!!!

balli
10-08-2009, 09:20 AM
so families don't really have a choice. buy health care or we fine you

what the fuck is that shit. someone explain that one
While I don't agree with this bill, I like it a whole lot more with that clause in it. One of the primary reasons the insured have such a high cost to bear (premiums/copays/declining coverage/etc), is that they're subsidizing losses that the hospitals and insurance companies take on by treating the uninsured and/or providing coverage for people who have no chance of paying back their debt.

It's no different than car insurance. You want to drive? You get insured. You don't just put your fellow insured citizens at monetary risk.

Same with healthcare. You want to breathe American air? You get insured. You don't just put your fellow insured citizens at monetary risk.

boutons_deux
10-08-2009, 09:36 AM
On NPR this morning, was a San Antonio doc saying for every $1 his Bexar county PUBLIC service spends on caring sick people without insurance, including assigning them to primary care docs, it saves the county $20 that would be needed if these sickos got no care until they ended up in the ER really, really sick.

If there is no strong public option to give people a no-profit choice for insurance, the health care reform will be nothing but welfare, a taxpayer subsidy to the health care industry that will have NO INCENTIVE to reduce costs, since there would be no public option for them to compete with.

MiamiHeat
10-08-2009, 10:46 AM
Same with healthcare. You want to breathe American air? You get insured. You don't just put your fellow insured citizens at monetary risk.

and what say ye, will ye do, if those who are uninsured right now and going without, cannot afford health care.

fine them money they don't have? or fine them their savings account, yet they still can't afford it on a monthly basis?

kick them out of the USA and strip them of their birth right to US citizenship because they can't afford to breathe american air ?

this is far from the coverage for everyone obama was talking about

coyotes_geek
10-08-2009, 05:35 PM
One noted that the estimate does not include the costs of proposed payment increases for doctors serving Medicare patients, roughly $200 billion through 2019.

So, in other words, the price tag really isn't $829 billion, it's $1.029 trillion.


Additionally, a so-called fail-safe mechanism to hold spending in line could result in cuts as large as 15 percent in federal subsidies designed to help the poor afford insurance, CBO said.

Since it's damn near undisputed fact that no government program can hold spending in line, this will result in new tax increases because there's no way in hell politicians are going to take away federal subsidies from voters they put on the taxpayer's teet.


Beginning in 2013, the measure would require that millions of Americans purchase private insurance for the first time, and would set up a new marketplace where policies would be available. Failure to obey the requirement would result in penalties of up to $750 per family.

The fine is still cheaper than the insurance.



The legislation also would ban current insurance industry practices that deny coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions, and restrict companies' ability to charge vastly higher premiums on the basis of age, gender or other factors.

Banning denial based on pre-existing conditions is good. Restricting the ability to charge higher premiums based on those pre-existing conditions is not. The smoker should be paying more for his insurance than the marathon runner.


Compromise legislation
The measure would be paid for through a variety of tax increases and spending cuts, including savings of hundreds of billions of dollars from Medicare, the federal health care program for seniors.

:lol


Wednesday's report to Baucus from CBO's director, Dr. Douglas Elmendorf, stressed that the estimates were preliminary.

What are the odds that as those estimates become less and less "preliminary" the price tag goes up? Pretty good I'd say.

boutons_deux
10-08-2009, 08:15 PM
Cancel the tax cuts on estate taxes, at least $800B more in tax revenue.

make the equity/money fund managers pay normal income tax rather than 15% capital gains tax, a $B more revenue.

cut the defense budget in half, $3T saved in 10 years.

get out of Afganistan and Iraq, $125B/year saved.

If if not offset by other revenues and cuts, $85B/year is a tiny %age of $2.5T/year national rip-off health bill.

BigPharma spends $60B/year on marketing.

Wild Cobra
10-08-2009, 08:21 PM
Cancel the tax cuts on estate taxes, at least $800B more in tax revenue.

etc.
etc.
etc.

No, no, and no!

Don't you liberals get it?

Anytime you remove money from the people, the economy declines, and other tax revenues decline. To raise revenue is not to raise taxes, but to grow the economy. More taxes will just shrink the economy.

coyotes_geek
10-08-2009, 08:37 PM
Cancel the tax cuts on estate taxes, at least $800B more in tax revenue.

make the equity/money fund managers pay normal income tax rather than 15% capital gains tax, a $B more revenue.

cut the defense budget in half, $3T saved in 10 years.

get out of Afganistan and Iraq, $125B/year saved.

If if not offset by other revenues and cuts, $85B/year is a tiny %age of $2.5T/year national rip-off health bill.

BigPharma spends $60B/year on marketing.

I've got a better idea. Let's drop this healthcare nonsense, cut the entire federal government in half and start paying for some of the "goodies" that democrats and republicans have been running up on the taxpayer's credit card. Maybe that way we can avoid having to explain to our grandchildren how we sold them out so that we could bail ourselves out of the mess we created.