Is Keith Bogans... Jacque Vaughn 2?! [Archive]

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ceperez

10-11-2009, 08:27 PM

Okay... looks like another bad day for Mr. Bogans.

Box score shows: 21 minutes of play, 0-6 from the field, 1 assist, 2 turnovers.

Saving grace: 3 rebounds and 1 steal.

Can some one explain to me why Bogans is not the second coming of Jacque Vaughn.

HarlemHeat37

10-11-2009, 08:31 PM

djohn14

10-11-2009, 08:31 PM

Better Player...Taller...Better Shooter...

tp2021

10-11-2009, 08:32 PM

Don't belittle JV. He was a great 3rd string point guard, no more no less.

Chomag

10-11-2009, 08:33 PM

Well just because he is a so called (proven) player I don't think that should him a free ride. Hairston is outplaying him in every way right now and at this point it would be highway robbery if He was kept, and Hairston is waved.

Allthough Hairston is not near the established player as Bogans he has a hell of alot more talent even at this point and can only improve that as he is still at the beginning of his career. Where as Bogans is on his decline.

ceperez

10-11-2009, 08:39 PM

Don't belittle JV. He was a great 3rd string point guard, no more no less.

I think we all know what we're talking about when we compare someone with JV.

We are talking about a veteran without much talent, but because he doesn't do much (and therefore doesn't make errors) eats up playing time to the detriment of other more talented players.

Riverwalkman

10-11-2009, 08:44 PM

Udoka2.0 is all right.

thispego

10-11-2009, 08:54 PM

Don't belittle JV. He was a great 3rd string point guard, no more no less.

:tu

ceperez

10-11-2009, 08:54 PM

Udoka2.0 is all right.

Good point... any good team will always need an enforcer.

EricB

10-11-2009, 09:15 PM

ChumpDumper

10-11-2009, 09:20 PM

Can some one explain to me why Bogans is not the second coming of Jacque Vaughn.He's not a point guard.

AussieFanKurt

10-11-2009, 09:24 PM

i wouldnt take it that far

ulosturedge

10-11-2009, 09:28 PM

It's difficult to judge without watching the game..Bruce had a lot of games with empty stats in his career, and we all know his impact..so Bogans better have been playing good defense in this game, or else his presence is pointless..

His spot really isn't safe IMO..Hairston is simply a better player than Bogans, there's just no way around that..I'm going to be extremely disappointed if Bogans makes it over him..there simply isn't anything Bogans does better than Hairston IMO..

I agree 100%. But I never thought the fight for the last roster spot was between Bogans and Hairston. I thought it was more so between Hairston and Williams. Regardless Malik is playing better then either of them. I'm pretty sure Marcus Williams will be seeing the door by the time preseason is over. I don't see the FO tossing a mil away and waiving Bogans. As i'm pretty sure his money is guaranteed.

If some how Hairston doesn't make this team; I will be tossing chairs and whatever else I can find across the room.

mookie2001

10-11-2009, 09:31 PM

vaughn was a point guard and he sucked for us

djohn14

10-11-2009, 10:02 PM

Nick Van Exel > Keith Bogans > Jacque Vaughn

EricB

10-11-2009, 10:13 PM

Nick Van Exel > Keith Bogans > Jacque Vaughn

Spoken like someone who didn't watch the 2007 playoffs.

Spursfan 87

10-11-2009, 11:06 PM

the battle for the last roster spot is between Hairston and Williams, Bogans contract is guaranteed.

djohn14

10-11-2009, 11:15 PM

spoken like someone who didn't watch the 2007 playoffs.

Shit lol:lol

TimmehC

10-11-2009, 11:19 PM

the battle for the last roster spot is between Hairston and Williams, Bogans contract is guaranteed.
Not neccessarily. It isn't like the Spurs are going to be on the hook for a shitload of money if they were to waive someone like Bogans or Haislip.

angelbelow

10-12-2009, 01:04 AM

Just stay positive geez

benefactor

10-12-2009, 06:31 AM

Can some one explain to me why Bogans is not the second coming of Jacque Vaughn.
How about because he has only played three preseason games in a Spurs uniform.

Bogans has never been an offensive juggernaut and he never will be. He was signed for the minimum for the exact same reason Ratliff was...to be a veteran defensive presence. We all pretty much agree that Hairston will make the team and that there is a good chance he can beat out Bogans for minutes if he continues to play like he has. The only certainties within our wing rotation are Manu, Mason, Hill and RJ. After that it becomes dependent on who is playing well enough to earn minutes. He is cheap insurance and nothing more.

TJastal

10-12-2009, 10:40 AM

How about because he has only played three preseason games in a Spurs uniform.

Bogans has never been an offensive juggernaut and he never will be. He was signed for the minimum for the exact same reason Ratliff was...to be a veteran defensive presence. We all pretty much agree that Hairston will make the team and that there is a good chance he can beat out Bogans for minutes if he continues to play like he has. The only certainties within our wing rotation are Manu, Mason, Hill and RJ. After that it becomes dependent on who is playing well enough to earn minutes. He is cheap insurance and nothing more.

Timvp here seems to think Bogans is a lock to be ahead of Hairston and might even beat out Finley too.

Hmm.., so far in the pre-season he's shooting 9% overall and 14% from long distance... if that's an indication of things to come he's going to be getting alot of DNP's this year.

Its really puzzling to me why this journeyman scrub was signed in the first place and given guaranteed money when the spurs have a young talented player like Hairston who has been groomed straight up the spurs pipeline and done nothing but impress and by any indication is primed to be a key contributor....

TJastal

10-12-2009, 10:51 AM

Bogans does have an illustrious collegiate career, perhaps I shouldn't be too judgemental here and give the guy a chance.

Agloco

10-12-2009, 11:18 AM

benefactor

10-12-2009, 01:45 PM

Timvp here seems to think Bogans is a lock to be ahead of Hairston and might even beat out Finley too.

Hmm.., so far in the pre-season he's shooting 9% overall and 14% from long distance... if that's an indication of things to come he's going to be getting alot of DNP's this year.

Its really puzzling to me why this journeyman scrub was signed in the first place and given guaranteed money when the spurs have a young talented player like Hairston who has been groomed straight up the spurs pipeline and done nothing but impress and by any indication is primed to be a key contributor....
Don't call me timvp...I am my own person and post my own thoughts. I'm not like some posters on here that need someone to feed them thoughts about the games in order to develop opinions.

The fact that you are calling him a journeyman scrub and putting him behind a player that spent the whole season last year in the D-league shows how little you actually know about him. Again...you are taking statistics from three preseason games with a brand new team where Bogans knows very little about the offensive or defensive schemes. Hairston has not even shown that he can be an NBA player yet...while Bogans has been getting rotation minutes on NBA teams for 6 years, including the playoffs. Can Hairston break out this year? He most certainly can...and I am pulling for him to do so. I even said that Hairston had a good chance to get minutes head of Bogans, even though you lied and said that I said otherwise.

But it all comes down to where we are right now. Labeling players this or that before they have even seen a minute of the regular season this year is pretty shortsighted.

duhoh

10-12-2009, 02:16 PM

yes, please don't turn into those few ignorant fans like the rockets have about how poor ariza has been playing.

wait till the regular season before we say anything.

K-State Spur

10-12-2009, 02:44 PM

Vaughn gave us exactly what we signed him to do. A third string point who could go out on the floor and not embarrass himself if/when Beno decided to shat himself in that role.

Boggans will be asked to provide nothing more than situational defense...unless players ahead of him crap themselves and/or get injured.

Arggg, some fans will never be happy until the 15th guy on the bench is a recent all-star.

superbigtime

10-12-2009, 04:32 PM

senorglory

10-12-2009, 06:21 PM

Don't belittle JV. He was a great 3rd string point guard, no more no less.

Amen, brother. JV did his job and made his contribution.

Marcus Bryant

10-12-2009, 06:57 PM

I hate Spurs fans.

benefactor

10-13-2009, 02:16 AM

I hate Spurs fans.
:tu

TJastal

10-13-2009, 07:53 AM

Don't call me timvp...I am my own person and post my own thoughts. I'm not like some posters on here that need someone to feed them thoughts about the games in order to develop opinions.

The fact that you are calling him a journeyman scrub and putting him behind a player that spent the whole season last year in the D-league shows how little you actually know about him. Again...you are taking statistics from three preseason games with a brand new team where Bogans knows very little about the offensive or defensive schemes. Hairston has not even shown that he can be an NBA player yet...while Bogans has been getting rotation minutes on NBA teams for 6 years, including the playoffs. Can Hairston break out this year? He most certainly can...and I am pulling for him to do so. I even said that Hairston had a good chance to get minutes head of Bogans, even though you lied and said that I said otherwise.

But it all comes down to where we are right now. Labeling players this or that before they have even seen a minute of the regular season this year is pretty shortsighted.

I have to admit I really didn't know much about Bogans when I posted my opinion which was a poor choice on my part. I now know that he was a stud in college but seems to have had an unremarkable career in the NBA so far. His career numbers aren't exactly impressive to me, 39% from the field and 35% from 3. His entire playoff experience of 10 games his numbers dipped even more. Maybe he just hasn't found his niche yet. Some ppl here have said he was signed to be a "defensive specialist". From what I've seen of him he doesn't seem to overwhelming in that area either.

As far as Hairston goes, just because he hasn't seen NBA action on a regular basis does not mean anything. Look at Von Wafer last year, he came in from the D leagues and gave the rockets a very solid backup wing. Now why couldn't Hairston do the same for the spurs? I think Popovich sometimes doesn't put enough faith in his young players, look what happened to George Hill last year. And it cost the spurs in the end, when Hill proved he belonged all along. I'd much rather invest in a young player with a high ceiling than settling for a journeyman scrub just because he has played 6 years in the league and seen the playoffs.

K-State Spur

10-13-2009, 08:04 AM

I have to admit I really didn't know much about Bogans when I posted my opinion which was a poor choice on my part. I now know that he was a stud in college but seems to have had an unremarkable career in the NBA so far. His career numbers aren't exactly impressive to me, 39% from the field and 35% from 3. His entire playoff experience of 10 games his numbers dipped even more. Maybe he just hasn't found his niche yet. Some ppl here have said he was signed to be a "defensive specialist". From what I've seen of him he doesn't seem to overwhelming in that area either.

As far as Hairston goes, just because he hasn't seen NBA action on a regular basis does not mean anything. Look at Von Wafer last year, he came in from the D leagues and gave the rockets a very solid backup wing. Now why couldn't Hairston do the same for the spurs? I think Popovich sometimes doesn't put enough faith in his young players, look what happened to George Hill last year. And it cost the spurs in the end, when Hill proved he belonged all along. I'd much rather invest in a young player with a high ceiling than settling for a journeyman scrub just because he has played 6 years in the league and seen the playoffs.

sometimes, all you want from that last wing on the bench is a guy who can come in and hold his own without embarrassing himself. the rest of the team is strong enough that you can go for stretches with a guy who can play in certain situations without making any monumental errors.

once he gets his feet under him, i expect we will be able to consistently get from him what we saw from udoka at his best. that may disappoint some people if that's all he's worth, but there is a place for that on this team.

there are no young players with high ceilings out there for us. hairston certainly has a higher ceiling than bogans at this stage...but malik's not likely to ever sniff an all-star team.

that said, it's not an either/or proposition, we should be keeping both.

Mel_13

10-13-2009, 09:09 AM

I think we all know what we're talking about when we compare someone with JV.

We are talking about a veteran without much talent, but because he doesn't do much (and therefore doesn't make errors) eats up playing time to the detriment of other more talented players.

Using this formula, can we refer to Haislip as James White! 2? You know, the youtube dunking sensation with some success at levels below the NBA that occupies a roster spot and a minumum salary slot to be a practice player?

BG_Spurs_Fan

10-13-2009, 09:16 AM

Using this formula, can we refer to Haislip as James White! 2? You know, the youtube dunking sensation with some success at levels below the NBA that occupies a roster spot and a minumum salary slot to be a practice player?

No no! That was the Dirk/Gasol stopper! How dare you!

benefactor

10-13-2009, 10:19 AM

I have to admit I really didn't know much about Bogans when I posted my opinion which was a poor choice on my part. I now know that he was a stud in college but seems to have had an unremarkable career in the NBA so far. His career numbers aren't exactly impressive to me, 39% from the field and 35% from 3. His entire playoff experience of 10 games his numbers dipped even more. Maybe he just hasn't found his niche yet. Some ppl here have said he was signed to be a "defensive specialist". From what I've seen of him he doesn't seem to overwhelming in that area either.

I've watched him some over the last couple of seasons, and every team I have seen him on he seems to hustle well and play good defense while knocking down a few threes here and there. As we get into the season we will know more about what we have in him.

As far as Hairston goes, just because he hasn't seen NBA action on a regular basis does not mean anything. Look at Von Wafer last year, he came in from the D leagues and gave the rockets a very solid backup wing. Now why couldn't Hairston do the same for the spurs? I think Popovich sometimes doesn't put enough faith in his young players, look what happened to George Hill last year. And it cost the spurs in the end, when Hill proved he belonged all along. I'd much rather invest in a young player with a high ceiling than settling for a journeyman scrub just because he has played 6 years in the league and seen the playoffs.
As K-State Spur said, we will probably be keeping both...so there is really not much of a discussion in regards to either/or. It's as simple as putting them both out there and the player that plays better will earn the minutes. Hairston showed some flashes last year but he wasn't ready and it was the right decision to leave him on the Toros to develop. This year he looks much more comfortable and has a much better shot at being in the rotation.

ceperez

03-26-2010, 06:01 PM

Posted on October 2009.

My predictions have come true!

Keith Bogans is indeed Jaque Vaughn 2!

For all those naysayers out there, eat your words!!!

Man In Black

03-26-2010, 06:30 PM

While I don't think you got it right, considering that JV fit his role fine and Keef hasn't, shows that didn't get it right. AND ...
with YOU, as opposed to someone else who remembers your perceived brilliance, bringing up an old thread instead of linking to it just seems self-serving.

I could be wrong...but what if I'm right?