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RobinsontoDuncan
10-13-2009, 02:50 PM
Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28235.html)


The Senate Finance Committee has approved an $829 billion health care reform bill on a 14-9 vote, with Maine Sen. Olympia Snowe the only Republican who voted “yes.”

The vote moves President Barack Obama’s goal of overhauling the nation’s health care system one step closer to reality.

The bill would require all Americans to own health insurance or pay a fine of up to $1,500 per family. It doesn’t require employers to offer health coverage – as the House version of the bill does – and would create health-care co-operatives for purchasing insurance, not the publicly run health insurance option many liberals hoped for.

Now Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) will huddle with Finance Chairman Max Baucus and Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) of the Senate Health committee to meld the Finance and Health bills. White House aides are expected to be part of those meetings, as Obama’s team steps up its involvement in the health-care talks.

Then the Senate bill would have to be merged with a House version that includes the public option and a different way to paying for health reform – one of the key differences between the bills. The House would pay for health reform with a so-called millionaires’ tax on families earning at least $1 million. The Senate would use an excise tax on insurers who offer so-called Cadillac plans worth at least $21,000 per family.

Tuesday’s vote is a major victory for Baucus, who has withstood criticism from progressives in the Democratic party who said his bill wasn’t liberal enough – because it omitted the public health insurance option – even as Baucus argued that his legislation has the best chance of passing the Senate.

Baucus’s hand was strengthened markedly when Snowe became the only Senate Republican to vote for health reform —- ending weeks of speculation about whether any Republicans would sign onto the Democratic reform bill.

“Is this bill all that I want? Far from it. Is it all that it could be? No,” Snowe said. “But when history calls, history calls. And I happen to think that the consequences of inaction dictate the urgency of Congress to take every opportunity to demonstrate its capacity to solve the monumental issues of our time.”

She said she supports the bill with reservations, and shares the Republican concerns about how Democrats will shape the bill after it leaves the committee.

In a subtle warning, Snowe said: “My vote today is my vote today, it doesn’t forecast what my vote will be tomorrow.”

Snowe’s vote was the only mystery surrounding the vote Tuesday in the Finance Committee. Baucus worked hard for Snowe’s vote, spending hours in recent days and weeks trying to allay her concerns.

He was practically speechless after Snowe finished her statement. “Thanks senator, for that thoughtful statement,” Baucus said, offering an understatement that drew chuckles from the audience in the hearing room.

It was clearly the outcome Baucus was rooting for, as he made a lot of concessions to bring her on board, including cutting the no-insurance penalties by more than half. The bipartisan nod Snowe brings to the bill strengthens Baucus’s hand as he, Reid and Dodd merge the Health and Finance committee bills.

Snowe’s buy-in could make it easier for Baucus and Reid to sell reform to moderate Democrats — think Sens. Mary Landrieu (La.), Ben Nelson (Neb.) and Evan Bayh (Ind.) — who are arguably more conservative than their colleague from Maine.

And it positions Snowe to grab a bigger seat at the decision-making table as Reid crafts a bill to send to the Senate floor. Not to mention, the headlines all laud Baucus for landing a Republican vote and give Democrats the “big mo.”

Democrats could overplay their hands, however: Look for Republicans to push back hard against any narrative that suggests a solitary GOP vote suddenly makes the bill bipartisan.

Snowe’s announcement came several hours into the meeting – and a vote remains a potentially a few hours away. The action Tuesday is expected to give Obama the best chance for enacting universal health care coverage since Theodore Roosevelt proposed it during the 1912 campaign.

“This is our opportunity to make history,” Baucus said. “Our actions here will determine whether we extend better health care to more Americans.”

Reid will now begin the tough work of merging the Finance bill with a more liberal version passed by the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. Democratic leaders will no longer be able to put off decisions on issues that divide the party – chief among them, establishing a government insurance plan to compete with private insurers.

Of the five committees considering health care bills, the Senate Finance Committee was the toughest forum to pass the Democratic version of health care reform. Baucus spent months trying to negotiate a bipartisan compromise, far longer than congressional leaders and the White House would have liked. In seeking a moderate approach, Baucus was skewered on the left.

Democrats acknowledged problems with the proposal. Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) said he wants a mandate on employers to provide health insurance. Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) said the bill doesn’t provide enough insurance choices for consumers. Sen. Robert Menendez (D-N.J.) criticized the lack of a government insurance plan.

But even some of Baucus’s toughest Democratic critics described the bill as a major step in the push for health care reform. Kerry said it will “significantly improve the coverage of millions of Americans.” Menendez said the bill was fair to consumers and families.

The debate took on familiar contours. Democrats argued that something needs to be done, and passed through the committee, even if the bill in front of them falls short. Republicans argued that the bill fails to meet the president’s promises, and Democrats were eager to ram something through Congress.

Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) acknowledged the bill contains provisions that are bipartisan. “There is a lot in the bill that is just a consensus of what needs to be done,” he said.

But repeating the concern he’s had for months about the process, Grassley said Democratic Senate leaders will shape the bill into a more liberal version during the merger with the Senate health committee bill.

“With this markup nearing its conclusion we can now see clearly that the bill continues its march leftward,” said Grassley, the committee's ranking Republican.

Democrats took multiple hits at a report commissioned by America’s Health Insurance Plans, while Republicans largely kept their distance from. Kerry launched the first attack, making plain that Democrats will use it to vilify the insurance industry as a greedy, dishonest player that is only out for its own bottom line.

“The insurance industry ought to be ashamed of this report,” Kerry said, portraying it reason to create a government insurance plan -- to keep the industry honest.

Wyden continued to voice his concern that not everyone will be allowed to participate in the insurance exchanges that are supposed to help people buy insurance. People, Wyden said, are not holding rallies in support of exemptions, but in support of coverage.

“People want coverage,” Wyden said. “They want coverage to be affordable.”

101A
10-13-2009, 03:48 PM
I am no longer capable of being amazed by what the government does, but does this bill amount to putting a mandate on people to buy insurance - and clean up waste in Medicare?

Really?

How is this going to save dollar one (beyond the aforementioned "waste" savings that shouldn't have been, by definition, spend in the first place)?

And after this we STILL have 18 million uninsured?

Really?

And this is "sweeping" reform? What makes it "sweeping"?

I also cannot for the life of me understand why the insurance industry would come out OPPOSED to a bill that demands people buy insurance? Almost looks staged, frankly.

"Y'all come out criticizing this bill to give us cover, since it's really just a pay-off to big insurance and pharma. Make a good show of it, now. We'll call you names and all, say your evil, but, you know, sticks and stones and all that. Yeah, make your announcement, be on all the shows, we'll have a real "brave" vote the next day - it's all good."

Geez.

DarrinS
10-13-2009, 03:53 PM
$829 billion dollars? No problem.

Just go back to the cash cow -- the American tax payer.

2centsworth
10-13-2009, 03:53 PM
The only question I have is whether I can wait to buy insurance until I'm sick?

DarrinS
10-13-2009, 03:58 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_18XkaPdQZu4/SjCcM9K1QrI/AAAAAAAARbU/dRrtYWLml8U/s400/geico-eyes.jpg

Aggie Hoopsfan
10-13-2009, 04:16 PM
We are so screwed with this bill.

Ten years of taxes to pay for six years of benefits is the only way they could come out deficit neutral. What happens after ten years?

And does anyone really buy the savings bullshit? This is all about consolidating more power in the hands of the government. Funny how when Bush does things like the Patriot Act, Dems are outraged, but they're all thrilled with shit like this.

The only thing I can take a small, albeit dark bit of joy in, is the fact when the financial ramifications of this thing completely bankrupt us and crash the dollar in the next 30-40 years, all the liberal sycophants dependent on the government for anything and everything will be the first ones to get F'ed.

I just wish somehow the liberal trash in D.C. responsible for this mess (Obama, Pelosi, Reid, et. al.) would somehow get to reap the 'benefits' of what they've doomed us all to by cramming this down our throats.

baseline bum
10-13-2009, 05:09 PM
This bill is garbage; to completely pass on the public option and call this healthcare reform is an enormous slap in the face to the people of this nation. If this passes and is signed into law I will not vote for a single Democrat in the next two elections. Fuck the entire US senate.

TheProfessor
10-13-2009, 05:18 PM
This bill is garbage; to completely pass on the public option and call this healthcare reform is an enormous slap in the face to the people of this nation. If this passes and is signed into law I will not vote for a single Democrat in the next two elections. Fuck the entire US senate.
This isn't the bill that will ultimately be passed. They've simply gotten it out of committee. You may still have some outrage to vent, but you'll have to wait a bit.

spursncowboys
10-13-2009, 05:19 PM
Is there an actual bill to read? If so did the Senators read the bill?

spursncowboys
10-13-2009, 05:21 PM
This isn't the bill that will ultimately be passed. They've simply gotten it out of committee. You may still have some outrage to vent, but you'll have to wait a bit.
A senator on the Hannity radio show said that Snowe said to him that the real bill will be more to the left and she wouldn't vote for anything farther left than what they have. Thank god the Libs are gonna overplay their hand. They can't even get blue dogs to agree to this bill.

TheProfessor
10-13-2009, 05:25 PM
A senator on the Hannity radio show said that Snowe said to him that the real bill will be more to the left and she wouldn't vote for anything farther left than what they have. Thank god the Libs are gonna overplay their hand. They can't even get blue dogs to agree to this bill.
The dogs will ultimately fall in line, I think. They've put up their mandated resistance already. No clue about Snowe, though they'll desperately want her vote to keep this "bipartisan" BS going. There will be further compromise before the whole thing is over, but there will probably be some vague, ineffective simulacrum of a public option.

MannyIsGod
10-13-2009, 05:27 PM
OP posts


Senate Finance approves health bill

then SnC posts:


Is there an actual bill to read? If so did the Senators read the bill?

:lol

Just lol

Its so funny how quickly and deeply meme's catch on.

spursncowboys
10-13-2009, 05:50 PM
OP posts

[/b]

then SnC posts:



:lol

Just lol

Its so funny how quickly and deeply meme's catch on. Don't you have a class to indoctrinate, socrates?

coyotes_geek
10-13-2009, 05:56 PM
More crap legislation that will solve little and cost much. Not that the celebrity president gives a shit. He just wants his headline of getting health care "reform" passed. Never mind what it actually looks like, how much it actually costs, or most importantly (and most neglected by the obamabots on this forum) whether or not it will actually work.

And nice job by the cowardly democrats to make sure that the requirement to buy insurance doesn't kick in until 2013. Gee, I wonder why not 2012?

coyotes_geek
10-13-2009, 11:08 PM
Politics as usual............

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/us/politics/29reid.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

MiamiHeat
10-14-2009, 12:07 AM
What happens to the people who can't afford to buy insurance and can't afford to pay the fine?

boutons_deux
10-14-2009, 05:23 AM
With no strong public option, and clearly a mandate with no public option, the private insurance cartel will continue to suck $Bs of excess profits out of citizens pockets forever.

In 10 years, national health bill is 10 x $3T = $30T

even if the subsidies too poor to buy insurance is $900B/10 years, that's 3%, of the total health bill.

$900B is about what dubya's tax cuts for the super-wealth amounted, without even considering the couple $Ts for Iraq-for-oil bogus war.

There is easily $100B/year in waste and fraud to be cut from Defense budget.

Any wrongie bitching about cost is reflexively in bad faith and dishonest.

I have do doubt that the rats in corps will get a reform bill that will not touch their cheese, or no reform bill at all.

SouthernFried
10-14-2009, 05:57 AM
I think everything will be fine...for the rest of my lifetime at least.

The next generations...they're fuked.

boutons_deux
10-14-2009, 08:06 AM
you're fucked now with so much of your salary going to enrich the docs, hospitals, and for-gouging-profit insurers.

you're also fucked now because Americans are "free" to give themselves avoidable diseases.

SouthernFried
10-14-2009, 08:24 AM
Why do you want govt to take care of you?

boutons_deux
10-14-2009, 08:33 AM
"Why do you want govt to take care of you?"

straw man, govt isn't taking care of anybody with health reform. Offering a serious public option/Medicare-for-anybody and allowing everybody to access to it (employees with employer plans are forbidden from going to the public option) are key to screwing the for-profit insurance companies and greedy docs and hospitals out of their excessive revenues.

govt public option is the ONLY way to have a cheaper alternative to for-profit insurance.

Note, there is very little real emphasis on reducing costs, because costs are the health system's profits, and the health system will buy Congressmen like hell to protect their profits and keeping gouging the entire country.

A huge way to reduce costs is for people, not the govt, to take care of themselves, but that's off the table, too, since people being both "free" AND "responsble" is not The American WAy.

And feeding people shitty industrial food-like substances is big business for BigFarma, then when people eat themselves sick, BigPharma takes over and feeds them drugs for the rest of their lives.

The country is fucking dysfunctional and the corps LOVE it that way, and fight like hell to keep it that way.

jman3000
10-14-2009, 10:57 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,564501,00.html?test=health

This has less to do with the kid getting rejected by the insurance company... and more to do with his mom's tigole bitties.

They must be gargantuan.

NoOptionB
10-14-2009, 11:01 AM
negged for no pics of said tigole bitties :(

jman3000
10-14-2009, 11:03 AM
You can just look at his face and tell he's used to sucking on watermelon's all day.

DarrinS
10-14-2009, 11:05 AM
You can just look at his face and tell he's used to sucking on watermelon's all day.

wtf

SouthernFried
10-14-2009, 12:18 PM
govt public option is the ONLY way to have a cheaper alternative to for-profit insurance.

Why do you want govt to take care of you?

coyotes_geek
10-14-2009, 06:04 PM
With no strong public option, and clearly a mandate with no public option, the private insurance cartel will continue to suck $Bs of excess profits out of citizens pockets forever.

In 10 years, national health bill is 10 x $3T = $30T

even if the subsidies to poor to buy insurance is $900B/10 years, that's 3%, of the total health bill.

$900B is about what dubya's tax cuts for the super-wealth amounted, without even considering the couple $Ts for Iraq-for-oil bogus war.

There is easily $100B/year in waste and fraud to be cut from Defense budget.

Any wrongie bitching about cost is reflexively in bad faith and dishonest.

I have do doubt that the rats in corps will get a reform bill that will not touch their cheese, or no reform bill at all.

Maybe this would be relevant if this was how the democrats actually intended on paying for this. But that's not what democrats are proposing. And :lol at the notion of the government "cutting fraud and waste".

coyotes_geek
10-14-2009, 06:10 PM
govt public option is the ONLY way to have a cheaper alternative to for-profit insurance.

............because nobody delivers value for your money like the United States federal government does.

NoOptionB
10-14-2009, 06:19 PM
Obama is being very negligent by not attempting to attack the expansive fraud and waste until a bill is passed.

antimvp
10-14-2009, 06:29 PM
Health Insurance companies have antitrust exemption.......isn't that funny how the media has not let the public know this until now LOL.

antimvp
10-14-2009, 06:30 PM
Public option here we come!

antimvp
10-14-2009, 06:31 PM
just goes to show just how the media controls the mind. this has been public for a long time but no one says anything until a politician mentions it......fucking media is a waste of time.

boutons_deux
10-14-2009, 07:35 PM
"Health Insurance companies have antitrust exemption"

.... goes back back to 1945 law.

spursncowboys
10-14-2009, 08:26 PM
So the govt. will pay for people to kill babies.

Yonivore
10-14-2009, 08:33 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted but, I think it's important to point out that "honest" Democrats do believe nationalized health care will involve "death panels"

IT7Y0TOBuG4


"We're going to have to, if you're very old, we're not going to give you all that technology and all those drugs for the last couple of years of your life to keep you maybe going for another couple of months. It's too expensive...so we're going to let you die."
By the way, he's a Democrat. A pretty big one, if I'm not mistaken.

spursncowboys
10-14-2009, 08:44 PM
rationing will be death panels.

Yonivore
10-14-2009, 08:51 PM
rationing will be death panels.
Yep.

But, I think the Obamacare plan is even more insidious...

Dr. Ezekial Emanuel, brother of Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel and a White House health care policy adviser.

Emanuel does not use the term “death panels” and the term does not appear in the Obamacare bill. That would be political suicide. Instead he argues in favor of “The Complete Lives System,” a system that “produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated.”

In 1996, Emanuel said health care should be rationed for those who are not “participating citizens,” that is to say the old, the infirm, and those suffering from irreversible medical conditions.

As a good liberal, Emanuel would like to avoid the perception that he proposes killing old people simply because they are old — that would be “ageist” — and instead argues that they have used up their “life-years” and basically need to get out of the way and stop using up precious medical resources.

Robert Reich reduces the academic gobbledygook of Emanuel’s “Complete Lives System” down to language the average person can understand. In the video, he spells it out — the government will intervene in medical decisions made by you and your family. Grand daddy is a burden on society and has nothing left to contribute because he no longer works and pays half or more of his income to the government in the form of confiscatory taxes.

boutons_deux
10-14-2009, 09:25 PM
"nationalized health care"

You Lie

Spending $200K on chemo with no change in overall survival, and to gain on avg 3 months more living (in chemo hell and chemo fog) is pretty stupid, but that's where the cancer industrial complex is.

Repugs are maliciously making nasty, hateful politics with extremely difficult questions that are above mere politics.

I don't expect anything positive or truthful from the Repugs, just divisive, lying, polarlizing politics, all the time, on every issue.

Yonivore
10-14-2009, 09:27 PM
"nationalized health care"

You Lie

Spending $200K on chemo with no change in overall survival, and to gain on avg 3 months more living (in chemo hell and chemo fog) is pretty stupid, but that's where the cancer industrial complex is.

Repugs are maliciously making nasty, hateful politics with extremely difficult questions that are above mere politics.

I don't expect anything positive or truthful from the Repugs, just divisive, lying, polarlizing politics, all the time, on every issue.
Okay, you disagree but, you didn't exactly say who is lying or what is the lie.

Some would argue three more months of life is three more months of hope.

symple19
10-14-2009, 09:34 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted but, I think it's important to point out that "honest" Democrats do believe nationalized health care will involve "death panels"

IT7Y0TOBuG4


By the way, he's a Democrat. A pretty big one, if I'm not mistaken.

midgets are democrats too

antimvp
10-15-2009, 09:25 AM
Health Insurance companies have an antitrust exemption. So they engage in Fascism and the Teabaggers defend these guys???????

what dumb fucking asses LOL

ElNono
10-15-2009, 09:31 AM
Death Panels already exist. Interestingly enough, Texas, of all states, knows everything there's to know about them:


In 1999, the state of Texas passed the Texas Futile Care Law. Under the law, in some situations, Texas hospitals and physicians have the right to withdraw life support measures, such as mechanical respiration, from terminally ill patients when such treatment is considered to be both futile and inappropriate.
In 2005, a six-month-old infant, Sun Hudson, with a uniformly fatal disease thanatophoric dysplasia, was the first patient in which "a United States court has allowed life-sustaining treatment to be withdrawn from a pediatric patient over the objections of the child's parent."

boutons_deux
10-15-2009, 01:01 PM
"three more months of life is three more months of hope"

yeah, Think Positively. Works every time (for the 500K cancer deaths/year).

Hope for what? There isn't a cure for end-stage cancer, and when you factor in Quality of Life (there ain't none), GAMEOVER.

Every hospital and every nursing home medical staff LOVES those $25K/day ICU bills, and $5K/month nursing home bills. String 'em along with "hope" and suck every penny out of them, their family, their insurance company. Brilliant, civilized "free market" capitalism doing its beautiful job.

101A
10-15-2009, 03:13 PM
Health Insurance companies have antitrust exemption.......isn't that funny how the media has not let the public know this until now LOL.

I'm in the business; had no idea such a thing existed; in SA, where I do business; this isn't an issue; plenty of carriers/plenty of competition.

Where I live, however - in PA, the market is dominated by BC/BS - but the premiums aren't inordinately high....gonna look into the "exemption" - because it certainly isn't anything Ma-Bell-esque in the industry; there are major, and minor players - lots of competition in most places. I know that the big part of that law is that it gives most power of insurance regulation to the states; and takes it from the Fed. States might have a problem with a sweeping change in that; or maybe they'll welcome it.

Really kind of ridiculous anyway, the Health Insurance company profits are public knowledge, and they are, literally, a drop in the bucket of healthcare expenses. Garner 100% of them, and you haven't done ANYTHING to "fix" the system. Until some politician starts talking price controls on Docs, Hospitals and Pharma, and restricting procedures; we ain't gonna save any real money. Instead, apparently, the Senate is considering paying doctors MORE. That'll control costs....