Man Fired for Voting for Obama

[nuclearfm]

KANSAS CITY, Kan. - A salesman says he was fired for voting for Barack Obama, after his boss sent an email to all employees warning that he would fire them if they dared to do that.
He claims Matthew Brandt, the owner of KK Office Solutions, sent the email threat to "All Employees" on Oct. 29, 2008 warning them "to rethink your vote on November 4th."
Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ Snell sued KK Office Solutions in Wyandotte County Court. The email warned that if Obama were elected, all salespeople will have to pool their sales commissions to give underachieving salespeople a "fair shake;" that hourly employees will pool their wages, including overtime, to help those who are "too busy to for overtime;" that top management was to be referred to as "the government," and would be exempt from pooling because the law doesn't apply to it; and that the last few people hired "should clean out their desks."
The email, included in the complaint, continued: "Don't feel bad though, because President Obama will give you free healthcare, free handouts, free oil for heating your home, free food stamps, and he'll let you stay in hour home for as long as you want even if you can't pay your mortgage. If you appeal directly to our democratic congress [sic], you might even get a free flat screen TV and a coupon for free haircuts ..." It concludes: "If for any reason you are not happy with the new policies, you many want to rethink your vote on November 4th," followed by Brandt's signature and title.
Snell says he openly supported Obama, and was fired on Nov. 20, 2008, despite acquiring more than $300,000 in accounts during his 6 months with KK Office Solutions.
He seeks reinstatement, lost pay and damages of $1.2 million. He is represented by Lawrence Williamson.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/10/13/_center_Man_Says_Boss_Carried_Out_Threat_To_Fire_H im_for_Voting_for_Obama_center_.htm

[Oh, Gee!!]

hilarious

[LnGrrrR]

Hm.. brings up the question: Should a boss be able to fire his employers for any reason? I'm on the fence on this issue.

At least the boss gave him two weeks before he was fired. I never thought it fair that workers had to give two weeks notice for good etiquette, but workers could be let off in a day.

[jman3000]

I saw a lot of this kind of talk from employers on the Hannity board around the election. They kept saying how they'd find out who voted for him and replace him with a good conservative.

[koriwhat]

I never thought it fair that workers had to give two weeks notice for good etiquette, but workers could be let off in a day.

no doubt and that is why i always give the middle finger and say peace out when i am spent working for some douche. fuck 2 wk notices! time is money!

[balli]

Hm.. brings up the question: Should a boss be able to fire his employers for any reason? I'm on the fence on this issue.

Probably not and this company should be held liable.

But if I were a small business owner, I'd most likely find an ulterior reason to fire a qualified employee if I knew they were a Republican- depending on the brand. Or just not hire them in the first place.

Being explicit and crazy about it shouldn't be legal though.

[doobs]

Probably not and this company should be held liable.

But if I were a small business owner, I'd most likely find an ulterior reason to fire a qualified employee if I knew they were a Republican- depending on the brand. Or just not hire them in the first place.

Being explicit and crazy about it shouldn't be legal though.

So you're just as bad as this asshole. Good to know.

[NoOptionB]

Probably not and this company should be held liable.

But if I were a small business owner, I'd most likely find an ulterior reason to fire a qualified employee if I knew they were a Republican- depending on the brand. Or just not hire them in the first place.

Being explicit and crazy about it shouldn't be legal though.

Bingo.

[lefty]

Although the boss is an asshole, the victim should have been aware of one major basic rule:
Votes are confidential

[balli]

So you're just as bad as this asshole. Good to know.

Subversively. He was explicit and crazy about it.

Quite frankly, I don't want Palinites working on my hypothetical company's behalf, for the same reason I don't want mormon doctors working on my body's behalf. There are a handful of basic litmus tests in life- and if people come up crazy on the political/religious test, how can their decision making be trusted in any other capacity? I shouldn't have used the word 'qualified' earlier.

Anybody watch Curb the other night?

[LnGrrrR]

I guess my question is: as an employer, should you have the right to fire someone freely, whenever you want? I mean, it is YOUR business. If you want to fire someone because they piss you off, why should one be forced to lie about it?

Of course, using that logic, you get into the very real fact that if people could fire for nearly anything, you'd have lots of gay/minority/etc etc having trouble finding jobs. Libertarian (and some conservative) thought would have us say that's the free market at work, but the truth is that the free market is not always rational.

So, where should the linebe drawn? Should political leanings be protected the same as racial/sexual orientation/etc etc issues?

(Note: i'm not saying I disagree the man has a case; I'm just wondering what the board thinks is acceptable for hiring/firing purposes, and if anyone has knowledge on the actual law, that's great too.)

[boutons_deux]

"Should a boss be able to fire his employers for any reason"

This Is America. Employees have NO rights, no recourse, no unions, no solidarity from other intimidated employees.

Employers can abuse them any old way and get away with it.

Employers LOVE high unemployment rates, it keeps the employees scared and compliant, letting the boss fuck up to his heart's content, employees taking no responsibility or initiative, keeping their heads down.

[boutons_deux]

There was story this week about a high-up guy on Wall St who refused to "think positively" and warned about the impending subprime toxic mess his company was facing. He was fired.

[nuclearfm]

I saw a lot of this kind of talk from employers on the Hannity board around the election. They kept saying how they'd find out who voted for him and replace him with a good conservative.

Yeah, I hear that stuff around me too. Hannity isn't even a conservative, he's a neoconservative.

[jack sommerset]

If that is true the guy who was shit canned will win. Hopefully the boss doesn't own the company and he gets shit canned for sending out a piece of shit e-mail like that. Everyone knows the 3 rules of work, Don't talk sex,religion or politics. I gurantee you noone I ever have worked with knows I think gays are gross, what religion I am and perhaps a few can guess who I voted for.

[fyatuk]

Hm.. brings up the question: Should a boss be able to fire his employers for any reason? I'm on the fence on this issue.

Personally, I say.... sort of.

I have no problems with people firing someone due to just about any reason (big exception being in cases surrounding sexual harassment). If a boss doesn't get along with someone, they should be able to replace them with someone they will.

[clambake]

it's called "at will".

[101A]

I have many employees who voted for Obama. I have employees that voted for McCain.

If they are still employees, they are good at their jobs, and I could give two shits if they voted for LaRouche! Business owners who operate differently won't be business owners for long; no need for it to be illegal.

[DarkReign]

Next headline will read:

Business Owner Sued into Bankruptcy!

There is "at will" employment all across the nation, I realize that. But this is the easiest slam dunk case ever.

Im no lawyer, bet I could win this one.

[clambake]

Next headline will read:

Business Owner Sued into Bankruptcy!

There is "at will" employment all across the nation, I realize that. But this is the easiest slam dunk case ever.

Im no lawyer, bet I could win this one.

i don't think what this guy did has a thing to do with "at will".

[101A]

Next headline will read:

Business Owner Sued into Bankruptcy!

There is "at will" employment all across the nation, I realize that. But this is the easiest slam dunk case ever.

Im no lawyer, bet I could win this one.

Depends on the State. In Texas the business owner wins that one - although he'd probably have to pay a portion of the unemployment benefit.

[101A]

i don't think what this guy did has a thing to do with "at will".

At will means for any damn reason the employer chooses. Doesn't like your socks; see ya. What you ate for breakfast? Bye. That's not hyperbole. Just can't discriminate based on the stuff explicitly stated (unless you want to challenge that you are not subject to Federal control under the 14th amendment through the Interstate Commerce clause - and some have successfully done that).

[NoOptionB]

Plenty of small business owners do not hire women simply to avoid any potential sexual harassment drama that may arise. Just as police can manipulate the discretion game to hit an exception to the 4th amendment, business owners can play the game too.

[clambake]

At will means for any damn reason the employer chooses. Doesn't like your socks; see ya. What you ate for breakfast? Bye. That's not hyperbole. Just can't discriminate based on the stuff explicitly stated (unless you want to challenge that you are not subject to Federal control under the 14th amendment through the Interstate Commerce clause - and some have successfully done that).

you know i know.

hell, one time i fired a french guy because he smelled nice. i did it just to reinforce the sterotype.

however, i wouldn't demand that my employees vote for my guy. thats a bit too anti-american..... wouldn't you agree?

[101A]

you know i know.

hell, one time i fired a french guy because he smelled nice. i did it just to reinforce the sterotype.

however, i wouldn't demand that my employees vote for my guy. thats a bit too anti-american..... wouldn't you agree?

I already posted about that:


I have many employees who voted for Obama. I have employees that voted for McCain.

If they are still employees, they are good at their jobs, and I could give two shits if they voted for LaRouche! Business owners who operate differently won't be business owners for long; no need for it to be illegal.

[jack sommerset]

I already posted about that:

:lol

[clambake]

If they are still employees, they are good at their jobs, and I could give two shits if they voted for LaRouche! Business owners who operate differently won't be business owners for long; no need for it to be illegal.

you ever been to the south? thats a pretty broad statement regarding owner behavior.

[101A]

[/b]you ever been to the south?


My company is located in the office complex at 410 and Callaghan.


thats a pretty broad statement regarding owner behavior.Just saying; people who run business by not making business decisions get their asses kicked eventually.

[clambake]

My company is located in the office complex at 410 and Callaghan.
i mention mindset, you supply an address....ok


Just saying; people who run business by not making business decisions get their asses kicked eventually.
...broad....

[101A]

i mention mindset, you supply an address....ok

South = mindset.

Got it.

(I live in Pa, and have mentioned it, thought you were asking literally.



...broad....O.K.

[Yonivore]

Democrats aren't a protected class. If he wants to share with his boss for whom he voted, after being told he'd be fired for it, he's an idiot.

[coyotes_geek]

Yes you should be able to hire or fire anyone from a business that you own for any reason of your choosing. That being said, you're only asking for trouble if you're blatant about doing specifically over political views. But yoni is right. Democrats aren't a protected class so I don't see how this guy has a case.

[iggypop123]

oh oh Mussolini should be next to come. whites are going to be lynched. we are doomed as a nation!

[Wild Cobra]

Wow... You liberals never cease to amaze me at your reaction to only part of the facts. You allow a story that tells you what to think, make you think that way. You all like being good little lemmings?

How many of you read the e-mail?

It said nothing about firing someone who disagree. It was a parody of bringing to the workplace Obama ideals.

Hm.. brings up the question: Should a boss be able to fire his employers for any reason? I'm on the fence on this issue.

At least the boss gave him two weeks before he was fired. I never thought it fair that workers had to give two weeks notice for good etiquette, but workers could be let off in a day.
My instinct tells me he was fired for being outspoken about Obama and probably was a disruption to the workplace environment.

Probably not and this company should be held liable.
Liable for what? True or not, they will have a reason why he was fired. The e-mail alone will have no merit in such a consideration, especially as far fetched as it was.

Being explicit and crazy about it shouldn't be legal though.
Who was crazy? The boss writing a joke email, or the fanatic who disrupts the workplace? Yes, I know he might not be a fanatic, but that scenario is more likely to me.

I guess my question is: as an employer, should you have the right to fire someone freely, whenever you want? I mean, it is YOUR business. If you want to fire someone because they piss you off, why should one be forced to lie about it?
I agree that a small business owner should be able to do as he or she pleases in that regard. Once it's a corporate entity with stock holders, or a government position, other considerations come into play. I'm on the fence with that, but when it's no longer a solely, partnered entity, etc. I think the standards can change.

So, where should the linebe drawn? Should political leanings be protected the same as racial/sexual orientation/etc etc issues?
Even though we conservatives are more likely to be fired for our beliefs by liberals than the other way around, I say no. I disagree with all special rights.

(Note: i'm not saying I disagree the man has a case; I'm just wondering what the board thinks is acceptable for hiring/firing purposes, and if anyone has knowledge on the actual law, that's great too.)
What case?

Did you read the e-mail?

This is a frivolous lawsuit.

If that is true the guy who was shit canned will win. Hopefully the boss doesn't own the company and he gets shit canned for sending out a piece of shit e-mail like that. Everyone knows the 3 rules of work, Don't talk sex,religion or politics. I gurantee you noone I ever have worked with knows I think gays are gross, what religion I am and perhaps a few can guess who I voted for.
I only talk politics with the three others in my work group, and not other employees. Being a technical field dealing with real sciences, only one is a liberal, so it's 3:1!

He sometimes asks us to stop, but we try not to piss each other off.

[elbamba]

Hm.. brings up the question: Should a boss be able to fire his employers for any reason? I'm on the fence on this issue.

At least the boss gave him two weeks before he was fired. I never thought it fair that workers had to give two weeks notice for good etiquette, but workers could be let off in a day.

Well I would recommend not putting it in writing if that is the case.

[Wild Cobra]

The man must have been an under performing salesman. How many of you think that sales of $300,000 of sales is good for six months? If he gets as high as a 10% commission, that's $60,000 annual. Why isn't the previous six months listed I wonder for and annual determination?

Oh...

KK Office Solutions wins "Best Workplace Awards."

Field set for 2009 Best Places to Work honors (http://wichita.bizjournals.com/wichita/stories/2009/01/26/story4.html)

Best Places to Work winners selected (http://wichita.bizjournals.com/wichita/stories/2008/01/21/story3.html) (2008)

Supports my thought this guy was a disruption at the workplace.

[Wild Cobra]

Why are you liberas such lemmings? Don't you ever fact check?

Response to ABC news by the owner (http://www.abc2news.com/mostpopular/story/Man-Says-Voting-for-Obama-Cost-Him-His-Job/d-qJTJ55m0qHe7nJJvy6XA.cspx):


Mr. Snells claim of being terminated because he voted for Obama is complete nonsense. I have no idea who he voted for and don't care.

Mr. Snell was terminated for his sales performance. I wasn't even in the meeting when it was decided to let him go, nor was I in the actual meeting to let him go.

Both the descion and actual termination were done by my management in KC. I have 40 employees in my company and assuming that Mr. obama was voted in by 53% of the popular vote it would only stand to reason that half of my company voted for him.

Why them would I only fire Mr. Snell and not half of the company? Mr. Snell knows fully well why he was fired and is very clear that it wasn't because of who he voted for.

Thanks for hearing our side.


Matthew Brandt
President/CEO
KK Office Solutions Inc.

[nuclearfm]

The man must have been an under performing salesman. How many of you think that sales of $300,000 of sales is good for six months? If he gets as high as a 10% commission, that's $60,000 annual. Why isn't the previous six months listed I wonder for and annual determination?

Oh...

KK Office Solutions wins "Best Workplace Awards."

Field set for 2009 Best Places to Work honors (http://wichita.bizjournals.com/wichita/stories/2009/01/26/story4.html)

Best Places to Work winners selected (http://wichita.bizjournals.com/wichita/stories/2008/01/21/story3.html) (2008)

Supports my thought this guy was a disruption at the workplace.

I haven't seen the e-mail or how his vote was disclosed but his complaint/suit is specifically towards the e-mail thread that if he voted for Obama, he would be fired, despite voter confidentiality protections and prsecutions provided under law.

If there was in fact a threat, It does have merit under the law.

[spurster]

Regardless of the facts in this case, I don't think employers should have the right to fire employees who use their freedom of speech while off the job, with some exceptions. An employer should not have the right to control any legal behavior while you are off the job, with some exceptions. The exceptions would be wrt confidential information of the employer (trade secrets, customer list, etc.) and deliberately harming the employer's reputation.

Not long ago, there was a thread about Obama wanting an insurance company, which had Medicare contracts, to shut up. According to some here, Obama should be able to "fire" the company at will.

[Wild Cobra]

I haven't seen the e-mail or how his vote was disclosed but his complaint/suit is specifically towards the e-mail thread that if he voted for Obama, he would be fired, despite voter confidentiality protections and prsecutions provided under law.

If there was in fact a threat, It does have merit under the law.
Wow... There was no such threat in the email.

You started the thread, but you didn't read the linked material to what you started?

Bad form...

Wait... That's the normal liberal lemming Modus operandi... I'm sorry, that's just how you guys operate. Silly me. I forgot you guys don't fact check. Must have got it from the Huffington Post also?

There was no threat. What you linked is for gossip girls.

Here. This link was in the article you linked:

Case # 09CV1714 (http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/10/13/NoHope.pdf)

[balli]

Liable for what? True or not, they will have a reason why he was fired. The e-mail alone will have no merit in such a consideration, especially as far fetched as it was.
Yeah, true or not? No matter. I disagree about the email- it didn't seem far fetched at all. It seemed fairly typical of the conservative base.


Who was crazy? The boss writing a joke email, or the fanatic who disrupts the workplace? Yes, I know he might not be a fanatic, but that scenario is more likely to me.I have no idea. Both. It's an inappropriate subject.

If the fired employee were such a fanatic that it caused disruption in the workplace, it's a way different argument than if the employee was fired based on his or her vote alone. Personally, I think you should be able to fire someone for either, but each case merits a totally different level of discretion. And probably legality.


I agree that a small business owner should be able to do as he or she pleases in that regard. Once it's a corporate entity with stock holders, or a government position, other considerations come into play. I'm on the fence with that, but when it's no longer a solely, partnered entity, etc. I think the standards can change.this.

[nuclearfm]

The funny thing is that I actually Know an "El-liot" Snell. However, he is more rightwing (more nutjob, less conservative) than most.

[nuclearfm]

Wow... There was no such threat in the email.

You started the thread, but you didn't read the linked material to what you started?

Bad form...

Wait... That's the normal liberal lemming Modus operandi... I'm sorry, that's just how you guys operate. Silly me. I forgot you guys don't fact check. Must have got it from the Huffington Post also?

There was no threat. What you linked is for gossip girls.

Here. This link was in the article you linked:

Case # 09CV1714 (http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/10/13/NoHope.pdf)

There was a threat in the "recently rehired should clean out there desks", and "if they dispute such an act, they should reconsider their vote."

[Oh, Gee!!]

Democrats aren't a protected class. If he wants to share with his boss for whom he voted, after being told he'd be fired for it, he's an idiot.

the suit alleges a contract, and a breach of that contract. if that's true, it's not a simple case of an at-will employee being fired.

[RandomGuy]

It would be interesting to compare the comments made here by the usual conservative crowd to what they said when that girl faked being attacked by an Obama supporter during the election.

I am sure it went something along the lines of "how crappy obama supporters must be to do something like this...".

Does ANYBODY here doubt for a nanosecond that Yonivore et al. would be SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER if it had been someone with a Palin bumper sticker fired because their boss was an Obama supporter?

[ElNono]

It would be interesting to compare the comments made here by the usual conservative crowd to what they said when that girl faked being attacked by an Obama supporter during the election.

I am sure it went something along the lines of "how crappy obama supporters must be to do something like this...".

Does ANYBODY here doubt for a nanosecond that Yonivore et al. would be SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER if it had been someone with a Palin bumper sticker fired because their boss was an Obama supporter?

My god man!!!... oh wait... :lol

[xrayzebra]

Fired for voting for Obama, hey makes perfect sense to me. The guy who voted for
him has to be dumb as dumb can be. He obviously couldn't perform. I think it would
hold up in any court. Bet the fired guy wanted his check mailed to his house so he
would have to go pick it up at the end of the week while he watched Oprah.

[ElNono]

Black guys are dumb and dishonest, ok?

[ChumpDumper]

It would be interesting to compare the comments made here by the usual conservative crowd to what they said when that girl faked being attacked by an Obama supporter during the election.

I am sure it went something along the lines of "how crappy obama supporters must be to do something like this...".

Does ANYBODY here doubt for a nanosecond that Yonivore et al. would be SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER if it had been someone with a Palin bumper sticker fired because their boss was an Obama supporter?I think whottt was bitching about something similar in his event services job. That would be a fun thread to revisit.

[mookie2001]

whottt says frank irwin jr, his boss is a hardcore ron paul supporter and he gives him floor seats next to kevin durant for not being a neolib

[ploto]

I only talk politics with the three others in my work group, and not other employees. Being a technical field dealing with real sciences, only one is a liberal, so it's 3:1!

He sometimes asks us to stop, but we try not to piss each other off.

Seems to me like he could complain to HR that you are creating a hostile work environment for him, especially if he has asked you to stop multiple times.

[Wild Cobra]

There was a threat in the "recently rehired should clean out there desks", and "if they dispute such an act, they should reconsider their vote."
Doesn't matter. It was an obvious parody of following Omobanomics. Now considering the new hire part, are you saying he was a recent hire? He has six months of documented sales. He doesn't make that claim in the suit.

I have had similar emails during election season that cut both ways. Haven't you?

Look at the economy and how many people lost their jobs. This was a sales job, for goods and services, and they likely had to scale back and let someone go.

It is ridiculous to think that an email, that is obviously a joke, carries such weight. Really now, is $300,000 is sales enough to carry a salesman, to pay his wages out of? That seems like a rather low amount to me.

[Wild Cobra]

Seems to me like he could complain to HR that you are creating a hostile work environment for him, especially if he has asked you to stop multiple times.
I guess I wasn't clear. He willingly participates, but doesn't like to cover some topics.

[Wild Cobra]

I would like you all to remember, this is a parody email, like one of thousands send across the workplace between people. I cannot recall the thousands I have received at one particular employer of jokes, political satire, etc. You can bet the owner send other joke emails to his employees if he sent this one.

The email in question is dated 10/29/08. Check these out:

How would you like to get this memo from your boss? (http://www.privatewealthmanagementor.com/wealth-management-companies/how-would-you-like-to-get-this-memo-from-your-boss/comment-page-1); 9/26/09

I got this email-memo at my job this morning (http://agoracom.com/ir/edigital/forums/discussion/topics/280670-hold-on/messages/983136); 10/23/08

Cockytalk political forum (http://www.cockytalk.com/showthread.php?t=78291); 10/27/09

You can find this all over the internet, so many thousands with some slightly modified words.

[LnGrrrR]

Regardless of the facts in this case, I don't think employers should have the right to fire employees who use their freedom of speech while off the job, with some exceptions. An employer should not have the right to control any legal behavior while you are off the job, with some exceptions. The exceptions would be wrt confidential information of the employer (trade secrets, customer list, etc.) and deliberately harming the employer's reputation.

I could see issues with this. Let's say you have an employee who is a proud supporter of NAMBLA, or the KKK, or something else that's heinous on their off-hours. If people who patronized your company discovered this out, they would absolutely hound you.


Not long ago, there was a thread about Obama wanting an insurance company, which had Medicare contracts, to shut up. According to some here, Obama should be able to "fire" the company at will.

I'd say the difference is that I believe the Medicare/Medicaid is under contract. Plus it's a government action, so that puts more spin on it.

[Oh, Gee!!]

My instinct tells me he was fired for being outspoken about Obama and probably was a disruption to the workplace environment.


The boss writing a joke email, or the fanatic who disrupts the workplace? Yes, I know he might not be a fanatic, but that scenario is more likely to me.


This is a frivolous lawsuit.



well, my instinct tells me that he was the best employee who ever worked for this two-bit company, and that he was completely respectful and polite every second of the day. my instinct tells me that he has a good case and will get every single penny prayed for in his suit. Yes, I know that this is complete conjecture on my part, but that scenario is more likely to me

[Wild Cobra]

well, my instinct tells me that he was the best employee who ever worked for this two-bit company, and that he was completely respectful and polite every second of the day. my instinct tells me that he has a good case and will get every single penny prayed for in his suit. Yes, I know that this is complete conjecture on my part, but that scenario is more likely to me
LOL...

What a joker you are today.

Please notice that I revised my opinion after that initial posting.