TP among the top 10 go-to player in the NBA...

[Pauleta14]

... for "Dime Magazine"

http://dimemag.com/2009/10/the-nbas-30-best-go-to-players-10-deron-williams/

Deron Williams has just been ranked 10th and it's a count down (1 by day by team)
He seems to finaly gets some consideration by some media!

At what spot do you think he'll end? Top 5?

[duncan228]

Maybe Duncan still gets the nod as the 'go to' guy for the Spurs. :stirpot:

[Mel_13]

Maybe Duncan still gets the nod as the 'go to' guy for the Spurs. :stirpot:

Or Manu :stirpot::stirpot:

[duncan228]

:lol

[Pauleta14]

Maybe Duncan still gets the nod as the 'go to' guy for the Spurs. :stirpot:


It's not about the best player...

Everybody agrees (even Tim and Manu in their interviews) that since last year, TP has become the Spurs go-to player

I though it was a no-brainer...

[Pauleta14]

:lol

I think I answered to quickly and didn't get the sarcasme :lol

[MB20]

At what spot do you think he'll end? Top 5?

mmm....top 5 will be hard. Maybe around 8.

Kobe
Lebron
Dirk
CP3
Duncan

[mazerrackham]

Or Manu :stirpot::stirpot:

Or maybe all 3 are in the top 10!!!!!!

[Pauleta14]

mmm....top 5 will be hard. Maybe around 8.

Kobe
Lebron
Dirk
CP3
Duncan


Even if he is the next on the list (9th), it will be better than expected!
Not because he does deserve it, but because he FINALY is seen as one of the best by some media (I guess "Dime mag" has some credibility)...

That was the point of my thread...

[MB20]

Even if he is the next on the list (9th), it will be better than expected!
Not because he does deserve it, but because he FINALY is seen as one of the best by some media (I guess "Dime mag" has some credibility)...

That was the point of my thread...

This is not surprising to me. Tony had a hell of a season in 2008/2009
And I bet he will be the leading scorer for the Spurs again this year.

[Allanon]

Unfortunately, there's only 1 player allowed per team in this list. So it's going to be Duncan. Manu and TP won't get any mention unless it's in Tim's article.

Unless of course things have REALLY changed and TP is the #1 go-to player on the Spurs.

[Pauleta14]

Unfortunately, there's only 1 player allowed per team in this list. So it's going to be Duncan. Manu and TP won't get any mention unless it's in Tim's article.

Unless of course things have REALLY changed and TP is the #1 go-to player on the Spurs.

well...

1- Things have indeed change ...

2- As I said before (not a too long thread ... yet! :lol), it not a matter of who is the best or who is the leader, it's who "takes in charge" who handles the heaviest load...

I can't see anybody else but TP to be this guy...

[da_suns_fan]

What a freaking joke.

I havent seen every Spurs game, but Ive seen enough to know Popovic gives the ball to Ginobili to create in the final minute. You dont want to give Tony "Turnover" the ball.

[Allanon]

well...

1- Things have indeed change ...

2- As I said before (not a too long thread ... yet! :lol), it not a matter of who is the best or who is the leader, it's who "takes in charge" who handles the heaviest load...

I can't see anybody else but TP to be this guy...

That would be quite a statement if you are correct. If so, I don't think it would be a #9, probably #5-#7.

[it's me]

well...

1- Things have indeed change ...

2- As I said before (not a too long thread ... yet! :lol), it not a matter of who is the best or who is the leader, it's who "takes in charge" who handles the heaviest load...

I can't see anybody else but TP to be this guy...

TP is definitely the go to guy……………………………..while Manu and Tim are injured lol

[Pauleta14]

What a freaking joke.

I havent seen every Spurs game, but Ive seen enough to know Popovic gives the ball to Ginobili to create in the final minute. You dont want to give Tony "Turnover" the ball.



You should replace "every" by "many" or even "any!

Talking about TO...
I love Manu and until a couple years ago, he was that guy, but now?
It's asking him too much

It's funny that this comes from a suns fans who should be used to see Tony destroy his team again and again and again.... and again ...:lol

[dirk4mvp]

If Chris Bosh is your closer, you've got problems.

[da_suns_fan]

TP is definitely the go to guy……………………………..while Manu and Tim are injured lol

Exactly.

[ElNono]

Who cares????... start the season already!!!

[Nathan Explosion]

Silly Spurs fans, don't you know, based on this preseason, DeJuan Blair is the new it guy. He doesn't need to be fed the ball he just takes it.

I'd be shocked if Blair is ranked lower than #5.

[hater]

well Manu was injured last year. he still best NBA player in 4th quarter

[anakha]

You dont want to give Tony "Turnover" the ball.

Parker clutch stats:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08SAS1.HTM

Nash clutch stats:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08PHO1.HTM

Overall:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Would you look at that. Parker performed better in the clutch than Nash this past season.

Guess d_s_f was wrong... yet again.

[Nathan Explosion]

Parker clutch stats:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08SAS1.HTM

Nash clutch stats:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08PHO1.HTM

Overall:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Would you look at that. Parker performed better in the clutch than Nash this past season.

Guess d_s_f was wrong... yet again.

According to the last link, when it comes to FG% in the clutch, you'd want Gasol, Ariza and Odom (in that order) taking shots before Kobe if you're a Lakers fan. Throw Ariza out of there because 1) He's in Houston now and 2) he was a role player and the list is still interesting.

But if you want to talk Ariza, he shot .588 on 11.7 FGA in the clutch last season. That's 6.88 shots made in the clutch.

Artest was .255 in clutch FG% with 20.7 FGA. That's 5.28 shots made in the clutch, or less shots than Ariza despite shooting 9 more shots.

Uh yeah, that doesn't really look like a good trade off. I found that interesting.

[da_suns_fan]

Parker clutch stats:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08SAS1.HTM

Nash clutch stats:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08PHO1.HTM

Overall:
http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

Would you look at that. Parker performed better in the clutch than Nash this past season.

Guess d_s_f was wrong... yet again.


Thanks for the links. Click on them and you'll see Parker's passer rating in the clutch is 5.4. Compare that to 16.6 for Nash. Thus the name "Tony Turnover".

You dont want Parker making decisions in the clutch.

Kudos on the self ownage. :lol

[anakha]

Thanks for the links. Click on them and you'll see Parker's passer rating in the clutch is 5.4. Compare that to 16.6 for Nash. Thus the name "Tony Turnover".

You dont want Parker making decisions in the clutch.

Kudos on the self ownage. :lol

Look at the links again.

Parker's assist per bad pass: 7.0. Nash's assist per bad pass: 3.7.
Parker's total turnovers: 186. Nash's total turnovers: 248.

Parker's a scorer first and foremost. Congrats on the selective vision. :lol

[da_suns_fan]

I dont know why anakha brought up Steve Nash out of nowhere and turned into a competition between Nash and Parker. I thought we were talking about Parker versus Duncan or Ginobili.

Also, the links are pretty dumb because they consider the last 5 minutes of the game "clutch time". Ive never heard someone say "that was clutch" when a player drills a shot with any more than one minute to go.

[anakha]

I dont know why anakha brought up Steve Nash out of nowhere and turned into a competition between Nash and Parker. I thought we were talking about Parker versus Duncan or Ginobili.

Also, the links are pretty dumb because they consider the last 5 minutes of the game "clutch time". Ive never heard someone say "that was clutch" when a player drills a shot with any more than one minute to go.

:lmao at the Suns fan who thinks he can judge Parker's clutchness when his own star is not even anywhere near as clutch.

:lmao :lmao :lmao at the Suns fan diregarding clutch stats because they don't fit his own definition of what 'clutch' is.

[da_suns_fan]

Look at the links again.

Parker's assist per bad pass: 7.0. Nash's assist per bad pass: 3.7.
Parker's total turnovers: 186. Nash's total turnovers: 248.

Parker's a scorer first and foremost. Congrats on the selective vision. :lol

Apparently you dont know what selective vision is otherwise youd understand why they even calculate the passer rating and why Nash's blows away Parkers.

[da_suns_fan]

:lmao at the Suns fan who thinks he can judge Parker's clutchness when his own star is not even anywhere near as clutch.

:lmao :lmao :lmao at the Suns fan diregarding clutch stats because they don't fit his own definition of what 'clutch' is.

Wow..i really pissed you off by pointing out the self ownage, huh? :lol

[anakha]

Apparently you dont know what selective vision is otherwise youd understand why they even calculate the passer rating and why Nash's blows away Parkers.

d_s_f doesn't even know what 'selective vison' means. :lmao

You claim that Parker's a turnover machine in the clutch. The numbers prove that wrong, and that Parker turns the ball over less than your boy Nash. Where's your proof otherwise? Or are you going to hide behind semantics again?

[anakha]

Wow..i really pissed you off by pointing out the self ownage, huh? :lol

Nope, :lmao at you trying to backpedal your way out of the statement you can't even back up with proof.

[da_suns_fan]

Interstig link. It appears that my boy Grant Hill is mutch more clutch than any Spur:

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT6.HTM

I would like to see that list filtered by players who played at least 100 minutes or took X amount of shots.

[da_suns_fan]

d_s_f doesn't even know what 'selective vison' means. :lmao

You claim that Parker's a turnover machine in the clutch. The numbers prove that wrong, and that Parker turns the ball over less than your boy Nash. Where's your proof otherwise? Or are you going to hide behind semantics again?

Parkers assist/turnover ratio in the clutch: 2.5

Nash's assist/turnover ratio in the cluth: 3.2

Stop owning yourself man.

[hater]

LOL suns

[da_suns_fan]

This one is interesting too:

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT5.HTM

The only player who shoots more in the last five minutes but at a better percentage than TP is Lebron James. So Ill give parker that he takes good shots in the last five minutes.

He's still just not a good decision maker though (see assist/turnover ratio).

Also, look at that column. You see the numbers slowly creep up and up except for the gap between number one and two. :lol

Oh Kobe, so predictable.

[da_suns_fan]

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT14.HTM

Another interesting one. All these are pretty good.

[anakha]

Parkers assist/turnover ratio in the clutch: 2.5

Nash's assist/turnover ratio in the cluth: 3.2

Stop owning yourself man.

Parker's turnovers in the clutch: 1.3.
Nash's turnovers in the clutch: 3.6

Parker takes more shots than passes in the clutch, and still averaged less turnovers, accounted for more points and generated a better +/-.

Stop seeing only what you want to see.

[anakha]

In the end, d_s_f's 'analysis' comes down to looking only at assists again, and judging everything based on that. Typical. :lol

[ducks]

well Manu was injured last year. he still best NBA player in 4th quarter

parker is more clutch then manu
stats prove it

[da_suns_fan]

You think it might be hard to get a rebound against the Spurs with five minutes to go nw that they have Duncan AND Dice?

http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT13.HTM

Jesus. I knew Duncan's rebounding was much better than his numbers indicate.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Here's one really interesting stat:

Richardson, Shaq, Amare and Hill all have higher per 48 minutes of clutch time +/- than Nash does.

Duncan, Ginobili, Mason, Finley and Bonner all have a higher per 48 minutes of clutch time +/- than Parker does.

So regardless of who is the more clutch individual player, it's clear neither one helped his team out all that much in crunch time last year.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

parker is more clutch then manu
stats prove it


No he's not, please post these stats you're referring to.

And hater brings up a good point that when he is at his best, Manu can close games just as well as all top tier wing players.

[da_suns_fan]

In the end, d_s_f's 'analysis' comes down to looking only at assists again, and judging everything based on that. Typical. :lol

Actually I said you dont want "Tony Turnover" handling the ball. And you can see by his poor assist, assist to turnover ratio and passer ratings in the clutch that he's not a good decision maker, correct? Ill say that he's definitely an efficient scorer in the last five minutes.

I never even brought Nash into the debate. You did. But I dont mind since all you did was own yourself. :lol

[hater]

parker is more clutch then manu
stats prove it

wrong again

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/slamonline-top-50/2009/09/top-50-manu-ginobili-no-29/

Forbes did a study chronicling the top players in the last five minutes of a game including overtime. It wasn’t even close. Manu topped the list and shoots lights out at a 57.4% clip. Your boy Kobe? 44.8%. Do I have your attention yet?"

[DPG21920]

Actually I said you dont want "Tony Turnover" handling the ball. And you can see by his poor assist, assist to turnover ratio and passer ratings in the clutch that he's not a good decision maker, correct? Ill say that he's definitely an efficient scorer in the last five minutes.

I never even brought Nash into the debate. You did. But I dont mind since all you did was own yourself. :lol

You realize you can't keep losing arguments and then post "you owned yourself" correct?

Since when does ast/to ratio dicatate decision making in the clutch? TP is a better scorer than passer, so therefor it is a good decision to shoot the ball more instead of pass. THAT IS A GOOD DECISION. Also, only having slightly above 1 turnover in crunch time means you are a good decision maker. Ast/to ratio does not say otherwise.

[anakha]

Actually I said you dont want "Tony Turnover" handling the ball. And you can see by his poor assist, assist to turnover ratio and passer ratings in the clutch that he's not a good decision maker, correct? Ill say that he's definitely an efficient scorer in the last five minutes.

I never even brought Nash into the debate. You did. But I dont mind since all you did was own yourself. :lol

All the three statistics you pointed out are based on assists, which ends up actually proving my point:


In the end, d_s_f's 'analysis' comes down to looking only at assists again, and judging everything based on that. Typical. :lol

[da_suns_fan]

You realize you can't keep losing arguments and then posting "you owned yourself" correct?

Since when does ast/to ratio dicatate decision making in the clutch? TP is a better scorer than passer, so therefor it is a good decision to shoot the ball more instead of pass. THAT IS A GOOD DECISION. Also, only having slightly above 1 turnover in crunch time means you are a good decision maker. Ast/to ratio does not say otherwise.

Im done destroying you. Quit following me around.

[da_suns_fan]

All the three statistics you pointed out are based on assists, which ends up actually proving my point:

Passer rating and assist to turnover detail decision making. Tony Turnover can be considered "poor" in both.

ESPECIALLY for a point guard.

[DPG21920]

Im done destroying you. Quit following me around.

You have done nothing but act the fool on a Spurs board. Just sit back and observe for a while troll.

You are not fooling anyone and I demanded you stop trolling.

[da_suns_fan]

wrong again

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/slamonline-top-50/2009/09/top-50-manu-ginobili-no-29/

Forbes did a study chronicling the top players in the last five minutes of a game including overtime. It wasn’t even close. Manu topped the list and shoots lights out at a 57.4% clip. Your boy Kobe? 44.8%. Do I have your attention yet?"

Not only that, but he sets up for others phenomenally.

If Im Popovic and theres a minute to go (which is only what should count for "Clutch"), my options would be:

1) Ginobili
2) Ginobili
3) Duncan

[da_suns_fan]

You have done nothing but act the fool on a Spurs board. Just sit back and observe for a while troll.

You are not fooling anyone and I demanded you stop trolling.

If Im a troll, then stop feeding me. Watch and learn, troll.

[DPG21920]

If Im a troll, then stop feeding me. Watch and learn, troll.

Listen to what I say. Stop trolling. I am telling you to stop trolling. You are embarrassing the good Suns fans on the board. No wonder they all hate you.

[ducks]

wrong again

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/slamonline-top-50/2009/09/top-50-manu-ginobili-no-29/

Forbes did a study chronicling the top players in the last five minutes of a game including overtime. It wasn’t even close. Manu topped the list and shoots lights out at a 57.4% clip. Your boy Kobe? 44.8%. Do I have your attention yet?"

manu was better but the last year and the year before
tp is better

[anakha]

Passer rating and assist to turnover detail decision making. Tony Turnover can be considered "poor" in both.

ESPECIALLY for a point guard.

Again, in case you haven't figured it out after repeated attempts at educating you:

Parker looks to score in the clutch. Hence the lower assist numbers.

The lower passer rating and assists/turnover are a result of lower assist numbers.

Your claim of Parker being a 'bad decision maker' in the clutch is proven utterly wrong by the facts that:
a) Parker averages less turnovers than Lebron, Wade, Kobe, and *gasp* Nash.
b) Parker's points accounted for in the clutch are easily within the top 20 in the league.

So yet again, your claim is completely baseless.

[ducks]

nash has to many 7 turnover games
some games he is great others he sucks

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

wrong again

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/slamonline-top-50/2009/09/top-50-manu-ginobili-no-29/

Forbes did a study chronicling the top players in the last five minutes of a game including overtime. It wasn’t even close. Manu topped the list and shoots lights out at a 57.4% clip. Your boy Kobe? 44.8%. Do I have your attention yet?"


It's not even a question. This isn't really a big sample size, but as a Suns fan, when I think back to all the late game disappointment against the Spurs since 2005, it's always Duncan and/or Manu right at the center of the Spurs closing the game out. I can't remember a game the Suns lost because of Tony Parker 4th quarter heroics.

Meanwhile, I'll always remember Manu making the game winning shot in the game when Duncan hit the three, or when he was the driving force that comeback to force OT in 2005 and then sealed it, or when he made clutch play after clutch play to steal the game Amare was suspended for, and of course his performance in game 6 to seal the series, where everytime Phoenix cut it close he'd answer back. The fact Ducks is trying to make this an argument is laughable.

[DPG21920]

D_S_F, if you are not a troll answer this simple riddle:

What creature wears Orange, runs without a plan, and averages more turnovers in the clutch than Tony Parker?

[ducks]

parker is alot better since 2005 HELLO
and manu has not been the same since 2005

[ducks]

I rember going to phoenix and watching tp hit the game winner
no it was the playoffs

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

manu was better but the last year and the year before
tp is better


The fact you have to use the time Manu was playing on one foot as your main talking point that Parker is more clutch shows how flawed your argument is.

[da_suns_fan]

Again, in case you haven't figured it out after repeated attempts at educating you:

Parker looks to score in the clutch. Hence the lower assist numbers.

The lower passer rating and assists/turnover are a result of lower assist numbers.

Your claim of Parker being a 'bad decision maker' in the clutch is proven utterly wrong by the facts that:
a) Parker averages less turnovers than Lebron, Wade, Kobe, and *gasp* Nash.
b) Parker's points accounted for in the clutch are easily within the top 20 in the league.

So yet again, your claim is completely baseless.

Do you know how pointless this is? Parker doesnt decide to pass often, but when he does, the results arent good. This is why I said you dont want to be giving him the ball.

As for your "points accounted for in the clutch", all that stat says is how many points players average in the last five minutes on a per 48m basis. So all thats telling me is that Parker takes a lot of shots in the last five minutes. His shooting percentage is actually good (but not close to tops) but youre too stupid to even figure that out!! Its even better than Nash's but youre too stupid to figure that out.

Stop OWNING yourself!! This is turning into a "Tony Parker is the best player in the NBA" thread redux!!! My guess is you will never learn when to quit and keep trying to spin Parker's poor assist and turnover numbers. Its almost PAINFUL, MAN!!!
































Almost. :lol

[ducks]

manu has not been healthy in the playoffs for 2 years
that is not flawed that is a fact

[ducks]

you know if you let manu play 25 minutes before the 4 quarter
he would be fucking spent to play in the 4 quarter

[sonic21]

tony's clutchness is underrated because of 2003. Manu's clutchness is a little overrated here (everyone only remember the 2005 playoffs).

But he's still clutcher than tony though.

[ElNono]

you know if you let manu play 25 minutes before the 4 quarter
he would be fucking spent to play in the 4 quarter

Manu still managed to lead the team in scoring the last season he played in it's entirety (2007-2008), while averaging less minutes than Tony.
So your point is retarded to say the least.

The difference is that Ginobili is on the decline, and Tony is in his prime.

[anakha]

Do you know how pointless this is? Parker doesnt decide to pass often, but when he does, the results arent good. This is why I said you dont want to be giving him the ball.


So again, you're basing your judgements on assist numbers, even if the turnover stat doesn't care if you were looking to pass or shoot in the clutch.

Parker's lower turnover numbers than many of the 'franchise players' is what it is, no matter how much you try to spin it.



As for your "points accounted for in the clutch", all that stat says is how many points players average in the last five minutes on a per 48m basis. So all thats telling me is that Parker takes a lot of shots in the last five minutes. His shooting percentage is actually good (but not close to tops) but youre too stupid to even figure that out!! Its even better than Nash's but youre too stupid to figure that out.


Your original claim was that Parker is a turnover machine and makes bad decisions in the clutch. The numbers I showed proved that wasn't the case. Then you state something else entirely, then call me an idiot for not going along with you on your tangent?

That has got to be the worst way to conduct an argument I've ever seen. :lmao



Stop OWNING yourself!! This is turning into a "Tony Parker is the best player in the NBA" thread redux!!! My guess is you will never learn when to quit and keep trying to spin Parker's poor assist and turnover numbers. Its almost PAINFUL, MAN!!!

Almost. :lol

I already stated outright why he has lower assist numbers. Where's the spin in that?

And you're calling his turnover numbers poor? Who's spinning Parker's numbers again? :lmao

[DPG21920]

D_S_F, if you are not a troll answer this simple riddle:

What creature wears Orange, runs without a plan, and averages more turnovers in the clutch than Tony Parker?


So again, you're basing your judgements on assist numbers, even if the turnover stat doesn't care if you were looking to pass or shoot in the clutch.

Parker's lower turnover numbers than many of the 'franchise players' is what it is, no matter how much you try to spin it.



Your original claim was that Parker is a turnover machine and makes bad decisions in the clutch. The numbers I showed proved that wasn't the case. Then you state something else entirely, then call me an idiot for not going along with you on your tangent?

That has got to be the worst way to conduct an argument I've ever seen. :lmao



I already stated outright why he has lower assist numbers. Where's the spin in that?

And you're calling his turnover numbers poor? Who's spinning Parker's numbers again? :lmao

Anakha, don't bother. He clearly failed my troll test.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

parker is alot better since 2005 HELLO
and manu has not been the same since 2005


I agree he hasn't, but he's still been better at sealing games out, in particular playoff games/series.

In 2007, who actually showed up to play against the Suns with 26 points and 10 rebounds when Amare and Diaw were suspended and carried his back court counter part to what was basically a must win.

The next game, which was also a game you figure is a must win to avoid game 7 in Phoenix, which player needed 27 shots to score 30 points, and which player needed 17 shots to score 33 points?

In 2008, game 7 was the only game in the Hornets series decided by single digits, who dominated the 4th quarter of that game and sealed it?

Against the Lakers in 2008, who was playing on one foot when the Spurs turned into a team that blew big leads in the fourth quarter largely because they didn't have a 4th quarter go to option?

[da_suns_fan]

What a freaking joke.

I havent seen every Spurs game, but Ive seen enough to know Popovic gives the ball to Ginobili to create in the final minute. You dont want to give Tony "Turnover" the ball.

Just to show my original post. And as the numbers have shown, you dont want Parker to create in the last minute (or five).

[anakha]

Just to show my original post. And as the numbers have shown, you dont want Parker to create in the last minute (or five).

:lmao at d_s_f claiming yet another baseless 'victory'.

[dirk4mvp]

:lol manu fan vs. parker fan

[lefty]

:lol manu fan vs. parker fan
We're used to it :lol

[hater]

:lol manu fan vs. manu hater

fixed

[anakha]

The funny part is that DoK took up the cudgels for Manu this time.

It looks like ducks' Manu hate is enough to unite even fans of differing teams.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

manu has not been healthy in the playoffs for 2 years
that is not flawed that is a fact


No, it's a flawed argument to reach the conclusion Parker is more clutch than Manu only using examples when Manu has been injured as your premise.

Either way, Parker wasn't more clutch than Manu in 2008 against the Lakers.

Game 1 against the Lakers, SA scores 27, 24 and 21 in the first 3 quarters. Quarter 4, the Spurs score only 13 points. When Manu was injured and SA needed Parker to step up as the 4th quarter closer, he didn't.

Game 2 the game was over by the end of quarter 3 so there was no clutch factor.

Game 3 the Spurs explode for 34 4th quarter points. Oddly enough, this is the game Manu gets hot and the injury isn't a factor. Parker, meanwhile, put up comparable numbers to game 1.

Game 4 the 4th quarter is again the Spurs lowest scoring quarter. Manu can't produce with his injury, they need Parker to step up and engineer a 4th quarer comeback, but deja vu, the Spurs come up short offensively in the 4th quarter with Parker as the go to perimeter threat.

Game 5 is the one game the Spurs do well in the 4th quarter offensively with Parker as the main perimeter thread, unfortunately the Spurs have to push the tempo to get Parker going and get quick points, and this leads to LA errupting for 36 points. So while this was in a more indirect manner, the loss of Manu's ability to lead a half court offense through the 4th quarer hurt SA because it forced them to push the tempo against a team that favored an up tempo game a lot more than they did.

[mathbzh]

Do you know how pointless this is? Parker doesnt decide to pass often, but when he does, the results arent good.
Most of Parker turnover don't come from passing (check his assist/bad pass ratio he has the 2 best in the league behind Paul).
He generally turns the ball over trying to score, not to pass.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lol manu fan vs. parker fan


This isn't a legit Manu fan vs. Parker fan argument. This is just Ducks saying retarded shit. Yeah the Manu homers are fun to argue with, but the fans like Ducks who to seem want to trade Manu for nothing and turn the Spurs into a PG dominated offense so they can circle jerk to Parker after watching the Spurs expose countless PG dominated offenses over the years makes no sense to me.

[mathbzh]

Apparently you dont know what selective vision is otherwise youd understand why they even calculate the passer rating and why Nash's blows away Parkers.

You should contact 82games.com and asked them how the passer rating is calculated (they don't talk about it on the site). I did it once, and had a reply like "This is a work in progress and not really a valid indicator". That being I have no problem saying Nash is better than Parker when it comes to passing.

[mathbzh]

...turn the Spurs into a PG dominated offense
I can't wait to see our big 2 playing, but to be honest last year the Spurs were a "PG dominated offense" for much of the season and Parker was not too bad (clutch time or not).

[in2deep]

that "PG dominated offense" got spanked by Dallas in the 1st round

[DPG21920]

DOK:

Even though TP is the focal point, it is not a system designed completely for the PG like Nash or Paul. The Spurs still run a lot of plays and they have a legit scoring option down low. Also, the Spurs don't play at a fast pace like the Suns and they actually defend.

[mathbzh]

that "PG dominated offense" got spanked by Dallas in the 1st round

Come on... this was a 2 vs. 5 series... (should I say 2 vs. 12?)
All I am saying is that Parker proved he can be a go to guy and rather clutch.

[Manufan909]

I agree he hasn't, but he's still been better at sealing games out, in particular playoff games/series.

In 2007, who actually showed up to play against the Suns with 26 points and 10 rebounds when Amare and Diaw were suspended and carried his back court counter part to what was basically a must win.

The next game, which was also a game you figure is a must win to avoid game 7 in Phoenix, which player needed 27 shots to score 30 points, and which player needed 17 shots to score 33 points?

In 2008, game 7 was the only game in the Hornets series decided by single digits, who dominated the 4th quarter of that game and sealed it?

Against the Lakers in 2008, who was playing on one foot when the Spurs turned into a team that blew big leads in the fourth quarter largely because they didn't have a 4th quarter go to option?

Damn, I didn't remember all that.

I hereby :toast to you, good sir.

[Manufan909]

Come on... this was a 2 vs. 5 series... (should I say 2 vs. 12?)
All I am saying is that Parker proved he can be a go to guy and rather clutch.

Yep, Mason and Bonner failing to show did not help. And Pop not being able to get his head out of his ass until Game 5 concerning Hill was also a huge reason.

Fuck, I'm going to be thinking about hypothetical rotations again. Like Ian, Williams, and Hill all getting 20+ minutes because CIA Pop knows the Spurs stand a 1% chance of winning it all. Oh yeah, and starting Ian, so Tim can get some minutes alongside a god damn 7 footer, not a poor mans Dirk.

[ElNono]

:lol manu fan vs. parker fan

:lol dirk & mav fan

[dirk4mvp]

:lol Dirk being better than both Manu and Parker.

[ElNono]

:lol mavericks

:lmao Nowinzki

:loser

[dirk4mvp]

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[ElNono]

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/build%20a%20mavs%20bear.jpg

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

America, eatin' my lunch from a single bowl in my parents basement, where I'm livin'. Happy Birthday, I'm forty-three.

Don't want to waste those precious calories...chewin'. Jesus come move my jaw for me, help me get my sloppy food down my throat.

[dirk4mvp]

America, eatin' my lunch from a single bowl in my parents basement, where I'm livin'. Happy Birthday, I'm forty-three.

Don't want to waste those precious calories...chewin'. Jesus come move my jaw for me, help me get my sloppy food down my throat.

America, eatin' my lunch from a single bowl in my parents basement, where I'm livin'. Happy Birthday, I'm forty-three.

Don't want to waste those precious calories...chewin'. Jesus come move my jaw for me, help me get my sloppy food down my throat.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

DOK:

Even though TP is the focal point, it is not a system designed completely for the PG like Nash or Paul. The Spurs still run a lot of plays and they have a legit scoring option down low. Also, the Spurs don't play at a fast pace like the Suns and they actually defend.


Well I didn't watch a whole lot of them last year (only nationally televised) so you'd know way better than me.

If Parker understands that when the fourth quarter comes around he's going to have to give the ball to one of the better closers on the team, then I'll take back everything I said about how him being the focal point would ruin them. If it's comparable to the showtime Lakers where Magic was the focal point for three quarters, but he knew that late in close games, Kareem was getting the ball, then that'd work. Obviously they won't be an up tempo team, but you get my point.

Keep in mind, I don't say this about Parker just to find reasons to say the Spurs are done. Boston is going nowhere if Rondo dominates the ball anywhere near like he did last season.

I have doubt mainly cause the Suns brought Shaq in with the idea Nash and Amare could have their "fun" for 40 minutes and then Shaq and Grant Hill would close the games out as the better half court offensive players, unfortunately this failed because Nash couldn't handle someone else getting the ball late in close games. It's dumb of me to use one situation to judge another, in one situation the PG has the coach by the balls, and in the other the coach has the PG by the balls and has the sac to bench a player for not sticking to a gameplan.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

America, eatin' my lunch from a single bowl in my parents basement, where I'm livin'. Happy Birthday, I'm forty-three.

Don't want to waste those precious calories...chewin'. Jesus come move my jaw for me, help me get my sloppy food down my throat.

America, eatin' my lunch from a single bowl in my parents basement, where I'm livin'. Happy Birthday, I'm forty-three.

Don't want to waste those precious calories...chewin'. Jesus come move my jaw for me, help me get my sloppy food down my throat.

[DPG21920]

Well I disagree, just because guys like Parker and Manu can do so much more offensively. It is not about positions as much as it is decision making. If TP and Manu have the ball, just like a player such as Kobe would, they can either get a high % shot for themselves or have the option to defer if they are doubled or someone is open.

They can break down defenses and run plays. TP and Manu are better offensive options right now. It makes sense to have a balanced offense (which the Spurs do) and to have the ball in the best playmakers hands. Difference between you saying Rondo, is that TP is an absolute stud on the offensive end. He is one of the best, if not the best offensive option on the Spurs.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Well I disagree, just because guys like Parker and Manu can do so much more offensively. It is not about positions as much as it is decision making. If TP and Manu have the ball, just like a player such as Kobe would, they can either get a high % shot for themselves or have the option to defer if they are doubled or someone is open.

They can break down defenses and run plays. TP and Manu are better offensive options right now. It makes sense to have a balanced offense (which the Spurs do) and to have the ball in the best playmakers hands.


Again, I said I'm comparing apples to oranges and it's wrong of me.

[Brazil]

that "PG dominated offense" got spanked by Dallas in the 1st round

:lol are you talking about the serie when TP was the second best rebounder of his team ? that serie really ? I repeat during that serie TP was the SECOND best rebounder of the team (I'm exagerating a little but it was close) ?

[NoOptionB]

Tony is easily the go-to guy.

Spurs quit going through duncan seasons ago.

[Dro210]

I think the go-to guy in Detroit is Ben Gordan now, not Rip.... and it's probably Hedo in Toronto, not Bosh

Also... Stephen Jackson at 27? Come on, that's just hate. Jack is in my top15 easy.

[Dro210]

also, this was in the Chris Bosh writeup:


But when you really look closely at Bosh, when it really comes down to it, do you trust him as The Man on your team like you would a D-Wade, Duncan or even Dirk?

I think that means they will be naming Duncan the Spurs go-to guy

[Pauleta14]

waow...
I didn't think this thread would be so long... lol

The subject changed into a tp/manu or spurs/suns debate... weird guys!

There are no debate about our go-to guy, TP has the ball in his hands all the time and has shown these last couple years that his decision making improved and his "clutchness" too. (thks 4 the stats...)
As long as Manu isn't getting younger and TP keeps improving, threre are no other scenarios!
It doesn't mean Tony will ALWAYS take the last shot, it depends on the match ups and how they are feeling the game (see tp's buzzer beater against Philly last year, the first play was a great assist by tp to manu...).

Manu is still the best (by far) at the FT line, and will ALWAYS be our primary weapon in that area at the end of games...
But go-to guy means much than that...

[Pauleta14]

by the way,

CP3's just been ranked 9th...
I'm surprised, he is usualy a bit more overated! lol

[Mel_13]

Still Tim's team:

http://dimemag.com/2009/10/the-nbas-30-best-go-to-players-5-tim-duncan/

[lefty]

WGAF

Spurs win as a team !!! (as long as Bonner and Finley are not playing)

[portnoy1]

And it always will be until he hangs it up.

[mazerrackham]

When I saw that it was only 1 player per team, I figured that this thread was probably going to be premature...

[Freeze]

... for "Dime Magazine"

http://dimemag.com/2009/10/the-nbas-30-best-go-to-players-10-deron-williams/

Deron Williams has just been ranked 10th and it's a count down (1 by day by team)
He seems to finaly gets some consideration by some media!

At what spot do you think he'll end? Top 5?

:lmao