Just in case some of us have forgotten.

[Spursfan092120]

AyJTIXKI1mA

[mookie2001]

boomer sooner

[Spursfan092120]

boomer sooner
yeah he is...but that's not the point..lol

[tlongII]

So you like Toby Keith?

[Spursfan092120]

So you like Toby Keith?
Yes..I like Toby Keith...and his music.

[Kermit]

VJ_E7Vce8vU

[dickface]

Actually I hadn't forgotten how shitty Toby Keith's music is, but thanks anyways.

[Spursfan092120]

VJ_E7Vce8vU
actually that's supposed to be Alan Jackson..lol

[Kermit]

i think you missed the point.

[jman3000]

woosh

[Spursfan092120]

i think you missed the point.
No..I got the point completely...you think he released the song to make money off the war. And if his father hadn't lost his eye fighting in the Army, I might actually believe you, if that's what you're saying...And maybe all the USO shows he's done...for free...might have a little something to do with it as well. Have you ever stopped to think maybe these people just love their country and respect their military? Both American Soldier and The Angry American were songs that the military had to convince him to release on his album. He didn't want to put them out on albums for sale...he only performed them for the soldiers at the shows. Read up before you insult people, please...if that is indeed what you're doing

[Kermit]

he should have lost his dick. that way we wouldn't have to listen to his son's shitty music. god bless him for his service though.

[Spursfan092120]

he should have lost his dick. that way we wouldn't have to listen to his son's shitty music. god bless him for his service though.
Hmm..unsure why you don't like his music..guess it's just not your style...but to say his music is shitty when he's one of the most popular singers of the most popular genres in music is pretty far fetched.

[Kermit]

Hmm..unsure why you don't like his music..guess it's just not your style...but to say his music is shitty when he's one of the most popular singers of the most popular genres in music is pretty far fetched.

to be fair, i didn't like big & rich either. or journey. or britney spears. or kelly clarkson. or faith hill's husband. all of those qualify as being popular in a popular genre. so no. it's not my style.

[clambake]

he should have lost his dick. that way we wouldn't have to listen to his son's shitty music. god bless him for his service though.

this

[Spursfan092120]

to be fair, i didn't like big & rich either. or journey. or britney spears. or kelly clarkson. or faith hill's husband. all of those qualify as being popular in a popular genre. so no. it's not my style.
it's all good..but to be honest, this thread was not about liking Toby Keith, it was about respecting and appreciating our soldiers.

[Kermit]

then dammit, do it the american way.

RINqibpWOzQ

[exstatic]

Have you ever stopped to think maybe these people just love their country and respect their military?
Is that why he wanted to bag on the Dixie Chicks? Part of loving this country is free speech, and part of free speech is people get to say things you don't like. I guess they didn't get to that civics lesson before he failed out of 4th grade.

[Kermit]

No..I got the point completely...you think he released the song to make money off the war. And if his father hadn't lost his eye fighting in the Army, I might actually believe you, if that's what you're saying...And maybe all the USO shows he's done...for free...might have a little something to do with it as well. Have you ever stopped to think maybe these people just love their country and respect their military? Both American Soldier and The Angry American were songs that the military had to convince him to release on his album. He didn't want to put them out on albums for sale...he only performed them for the soldiers at the shows. Read up before you insult people, please...if that is indeed what you're doing


he should have lost his dick. that way we wouldn't have to listen to his son's shitty music. god bless him for his service though.

[Spursfan092120]

Gotcha Kermit..and I understand where you're coming from. But some people in here..shit...the point of this thread is not to talk about Toby Keith...it's to remind you about the soldiers fighting for your freedom. I swear, some people in this damn forum think it's just so cool to be negative in every fucking thread...it's beyond ridiculous. If you don't like Toby..that's fine..whatever..but this thread isn't about him...so get over it.

[CuckingFunt]

Gotcha Kermit..and I understand where you're coming from. But some people in here..shit...the point of this thread is not to talk about Toby Keith...it's to remind you about the soldiers fighting for your freedom. I swear, some people in this damn forum think it's just so cool to be negative in every fucking thread...it's beyond ridiculous. If you don't like Toby..that's fine..whatever..but this thread isn't about him...so get over it.

The soldiers are fighting for my freedom? Really? I had no idea that my freedom was being threatened by anyone in Afghanistan or Iraq. Well, then, thank goodness we got over there and bombed the shit out of all the women and children trying to take it away from me.

Phew.

I feel better.

[Spursfan092120]

The soldiers are fighting for my freedom? Really? I had no idea that my freedom was being threatened by anyone in Afghanistan or Iraq. Well, then, thank goodness we got over there and bombed the shit out of all the women and children trying to take it away from me.

Phew.

I feel better.
0UFVrt7sOCo

Not getting into a war of words..this isn't about that. And don't forget one thing. Those soldiers aren't fighting over there because they choose to..that's their job...you can hate the government...but respect the people doing what they're doing over there. As a soldier who lost his legs once said..this isn't about the war..it's about the warrior.

[tlongII]

Dude, I don't think anyone has forgotten about our soldiers.

[xellos88330]

The soldiers are fighting for my freedom? Really? I had no idea that my freedom was being threatened by anyone in Afghanistan or Iraq. Well, then, thank goodness we got over there and bombed the shit out of all the women and children trying to take it away from me.

Phew.

I feel better.

If you had a relative that died from terrorist attacks you would probably understand better.

How would you react if someone ended say.. your child, mother, father or someone very close to your life prematurely due to some ridiculous claim that it was justified by a religious cause.

Now ask yourself how would you deal with other people trying to hide the terrorists from justice?

How does this pertain to your personal freedom? Did you ever think to yourself that at any given moment someone could kill you for your beliefs. Don't you have the right to live the way you feel is best for you? You may not think that your freedom was attacked, but wake up and smell the coffee man. It was, whether you deny it or not.

Those soldiers over there are fighting the people not only the ones responsible, but the ones who could possibly affect your right to live as you see fit in the future. Therefore, they ARE defending your freedom.

As far as the women and children getting killed, I do not like that one bit. It pisses me off even more because the cowards are hiding behind them using them as human shields.

[Spursfan092120]

Dude, I don't think anyone has forgotten about our soldiers.
My reason for posting this thread is because I dealt with someone at work today who got starting talking about Afghanistan and started bashing the soldiers....it pissed me off because one of my best friends just got back from Iraq and has two destroyed rotator cuffs and PTSD...and they're trying to send him to Afghanistan now, but he can't even put the armor on with his shoulders, so they're trying to force him to have surgery so he can go back. He has 3 sons, and a wife that just left him, so his boys are being taken care of by his mother, who already has to take care of an illness of her own. And this fucking hippy bitch from Austin who drove up in an Escalade has a problem with people over there...I wanted to stab her in the face with a fork.

[Spursfan092120]

Now ask yourself how would you deal with other people trying to hide the terrorists from justice?

This is what gets me the most...that's why most soldiers that I've spoken to believe they're doing the right thing.

[dickface]

Those soldiers aren't fighting over there because they choose to..that's their job

My job blows too, but Toby Keith isn't gonna write a song about it.


respect the people doing what they're doing over there.

The people raping women and throwing puppies over the sides of mountains? No thanks.

[xellos88330]

This is what gets me the most...that's why most soldiers that I've spoken to believe they're doing the right thing.

Most people claim that they care about the soldiers and want to bring them home safe, but then turn their backs on them when they say that they are fighting for nothing.

My brother and I are both disabled veterans of this war and it pisses me off to no end knowing that people here are clueless and so damn shortsighted that they cannot see the bigger picture.

I still believe that the right thing is being done, I would rather have our soldiers stay over there and fight. It may sound pretty dumb, but it keeps the innocent people safe here in the states. It focuses the radicals attention on the military shooting at them rather than terrorist attacks.

Moths to a flame my friend.

[xellos88330]

My job blows too, but Toby Keith isn't gonna write a song about it.



The people raping women and throwing puppies over the sides of mountains? No thanks.

You are a fucking idiot.

[ploto]

I care about the soldiers so much that I want them to come home and to get out of a place where I think they should not be.

[CuckingFunt]

And don't forget one thing. Those soldiers aren't fighting over there because they choose to..that's their job...you can hate the government...but respect the people doing what they're doing over there. As a soldier who lost his legs once said..this isn't about the war..it's about the warrior.

Odd that you felt the need to point this out, considering that my post was very clearly and specifically questioning the war itself and not the people fighting it.


If you had a relative that died from terrorist attacks you would probably understand better.

How do you know that I haven't?


Those soldiers over there are fighting the people not only the ones responsible, but the ones who could possibly affect your right to live as you see fit in the future. Therefore, they ARE defending your freedom.

Specious reasoning. That's like suggesting that the trees in my parking lot are protecting me from vicious condor attacks -- must be true because the trees are there and I've seen no condors.

I understand and respect that as a veteran of this war it is likely important for you to believe that your time in service was spent doing something worthwhile. And, depending on your definition of "worthwhile," it very possibly was. But it's just silly to assume that a) the terrorist attacks in 2001 posed a direct threat to our personal freedoms, or that b) the wars currently being fought in Iraq and Afghanistan have done/will do anything to solve that supposed problem. I don't, personally, feel any more or less safe from terrorist attacks than I did eight years ago. Additionally, the jingoisitic, 'murrican, "patriotic," Homeland Security bullshit of the last few years has had far more impact on our personal liberties than anything the terrorists did.

[xellos88330]

I understand and respect that as a veteran of this war it is likely important for you to believe that your time in service was spent doing something worthwhile. And, depending on your definition of "worthwhile," it very possibly was. But it's just silly to assume that a) the terrorist attacks in 2001 posed a direct threat to our personal freedoms, or that b) the wars currently being fought in Iraq and Afghanistan have done/will do anything to solve that supposed problem. I don't, personally, feel any more or less safe from terrorist attacks than I did eight years ago. Additionally, the jingoisitic, 'murrican, "patriotic," Homeland Security bullshit of the last few years has had far more impact on our personal liberties than anything the terrorists did.

Homeland Security annoys the shit out of me too.

However, the reason why it is necessary is so that way the terrorists cannot exploit our very own freedoms as a means to carry out acts of war. By them using that freedom to attack us, the government was forced to supervise it to ensure the safety of everyone. The attacks did have a direct effect on everyone in the US. It is your basic 'cause and effect' scenario.

I understand that people do not feel safe yet. I do hope that you find some comfort in that the military is trying to do something about it.

I do not think this war will end quickly. It is like trying to kill cockroaches. Kill one there are probably 100 more hiding somewhere. War, unfortunately, seems the only thing that is possible at the moment. Hopefully someone in the future will figure out a way to solve this.

[Spursfan092120]

My job blows too, but Toby Keith isn't gonna write a song about it.

The fact that you compare any job you could possibly doing to what soldiers do makes you a complete idiot.

[Spursfan092120]

The soldiers are fighting for my freedom? Really? I had no idea that my freedom was being threatened by anyone in Afghanistan or Iraq. Well, then, thank goodness we got over there and bombed the shit out of all the women and children trying to take it away from me.

Phew.

I feel better.


Odd that you felt the need to point this out, considering that my post was very clearly and specifically questioning the war itself and not the people fighting it.
I'm not sure where in this post you clearly showed that you were not questioning the people fighting the war. All I see is that you believe they are not fighting for your freedom.

[dickface]

The fact that you compare any job you could possibly doing to what soldiers do makes you a complete idiot.

You being a Toby Keith fan makes you the same.

[Spursfan092120]

You being a Toby Keith fan makes you the same.
yeah..because preference of music has a lot to do with a person's intelligence. The fact that the fucking name you picked to be known by is dickface just shows me that you're not even worth speaking to...the fact that you compare your job (I assume cooking fries at Burger King) to the job of a soldier shows me that you're beyond ignorant.

[chode_regulator]

The soldiers are fighting for my freedom? Really? I had no idea that my freedom was being threatened by anyone in Afghanistan or Iraq. Well, then, thank goodness we got over there and bombed the shit out of all the women and children trying to take it away from me.

Phew.

I feel better.
Well CF I like to look at it this way. I joined so that chodes like you don't have to. Do I think the war is justified? No. But I do feel a military is necessary and someone has to be in it. To say the military doesn't protect your freedom is just plain and simple ignorance. Looking back on it, I wouldn't have joined and subjected myself to chronic lifetime pain for douche bags such as yourself.

My job blows too, but Toby Keith isn't gonna write a song about it.



The people raping women and throwing puppies over the sides of mountains? No thanks.Yes because non military citizens behave so perfectly. Get off your high horse. I was unaware that rapist were limited to our military. I guess I should have gotten mine while I had the chance. I hope if you haven't alreadythat you don't reproduce. And if you have that you don't produce any more brainiacs into our country.

[CuckingFunt]

I'm not sure where in this post you clearly showed that you were not questioning the people fighting the war. All I see is that you believe they are not fighting for your freedom.


Well CF I like to look at it this way. I joined so that chodes like you don't have to. Do I think the war is justified? No. But I do feel a military is necessary and someone has to be in it. To say the military doesn't protect your freedom is just plain and simple ignorance. Looking back on it, I wouldn't have joined and subjected myself to chronic lifetime pain for douche bags such as yourself.

I genuinely don't know what was so difficult to understand about my initial comments in this thread.

I wasn't in any way questioning the motivations of those who have joined the armed forces. I wasn't suggesting that they don't care about my freedoms or this country. I wasn't questioning or making light of the hardships they face or the difficulty of their decision to serve.

It was suggested that the soldiers are currently fighting for my freedom. I was merely responding that, in my opinion, the war they are fighting has very little to do with my personal freedoms. If you back away from the immediate defensiveness, I'm sure you'll see that my comments were disparaging only to the job the troops have been told to do, and not their decision to do it.

[Spursfan092120]

I genuinely don't know what was so difficult to understand about my initial comments in this thread.

I wasn't in any way questioning the motivations of those who have joined the armed forces. I wasn't suggesting that they don't care about my freedoms or this country. I wasn't questioning or making light of the hardships they face or the difficulty of their decision to serve.

It was suggested that the soldiers are currently fighting for my freedom. I was merely responding that, in my opinion, the war they are fighting has very little to do with my personal freedoms. If you back away from the immediate defensiveness, I'm sure you'll see that my comments were disparaging only to the job the troops have been told to do, and not their decision to do it.
whether or not I understood makes no difference...if you appreciate the troops, then I have no problems. I completely understand you not agreeing with the war, though I disagree with your opinions..agree to disagree...

[Dr. Gonzo]

Toby Keith sucks more than Creed.

I don't need a douchebag wannabe "badass" to tell me to appreciate the troops. If he cared so much why doesn't he enlist and fight. He's a big fucking pussy if you ask me.

[Dr. Gonzo]

It was suggested that the soldiers are currently fighting for my freedom. I was merely responding that, in my opinion, the war they are fighting has very little to do with my personal freedoms. If you back away from the immediate defensiveness, I'm sure you'll see that my comments were disparaging only to the job the troops have been told to do, and not their decision to do it.

I completely agree. I can give 2 shits about whether Mohammed in Iraq can vote. When another country invades the US, and don't give me that 9/11 bullshit it was obviously an inside job, then and only then are my personal freedoms at stake.

[LnGrrrR]

The soldiers are fighting for my freedom? Really? I had no idea that my freedom was being threatened by anyone in Afghanistan or Iraq. Well, then, thank goodness we got over there and bombed the shit out of all the women and children trying to take it away from me.

Phew.

I feel better.

Hey, I'm all for ending the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's a bit flippant to posit all of our soldiers as psychopathic murderers of women and children, don't you think?

[LnGrrrR]

I genuinely don't know what was so difficult to understand about my initial comments in this thread.

I wasn't in any way questioning the motivations of those who have joined the armed forces. I wasn't suggesting that they don't care about my freedoms or this country. I wasn't questioning or making light of the hardships they face or the difficulty of their decision to serve.

It was suggested that the soldiers are currently fighting for my freedom. I was merely responding that, in my opinion, the war they are fighting has very little to do with my personal freedoms. If you back away from the immediate defensiveness, I'm sure you'll see that my comments were disparaging only to the job the troops have been told to do, and not their decision to do it.

I believe the point CF is that, even though we both feel our soldiers' efforts are misdirected, that without them we COULD be attacked, ya know?

The majority of our focus is Iraq/Afghanistan, but it is by no means the military's ONLY focus, and to assume that we AREN'T also performing functions that help secure our freedom is somewhat short-sighted, I feel.

[Eminem]

what's dickface's deal? I bet he wouldn't like it if I called pussyface in this thread to regulate his chode like he usually does.

[Pistons < Spurs]

http://www.wpclipart.com/armed_services/ribbons/support_our_troops_ribbon_multi.png

[chode_regulator]

I genuinely don't know what was so difficult to understand about my initial comments in this thread.

I wasn't in any way questioning the motivations of those who have joined the armed forces. I wasn't suggesting that they don't care about my freedoms or this country. I wasn't questioning or making light of the hardships they face or the difficulty of their decision to serve.








Specious reasoning. That's like suggesting that the trees in my parking lot are protecting me from vicious condor attacks -- must be true because the trees are there and I've seen no condors.

I understand and respect that as a veteran of this war it is likely important for you to believe that your time in service was spent doing something worthwhile. And, depending on your definition of "worthwhile," it very possibly was.


From your own keyboard.
trees protecting you from condors...etc etc

If you don't feel Iraqis hate us, would you walk down the street of downtown baghdad unprotected? I bet not.
If you really feel taht a military is not needed, again, can't help you there but I would have to stronly disagree.

Thankfully soldiers aren't getting treated at home the way they were after 'nam but I mean come on. "We don't need a military." :downspin:
I guess the world is all roses and rainbows to some. :rolleyes

And yes you are right, Marines and soldiers love killing women and children. Like the quote says "you just lead them less"

[CuckingFunt]

Hey, I'm all for ending the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it's a bit flippant to posit all of our soldiers as psychopathic murderers of women and children, don't you think?

Again, that's reading something into my post that simply isn't there.

There are a lot of ways that women, children, and generally innocent civilians can be killed during a war -- bombs being dropped where they shouldn't be, suicide bombers reacting to our continued unwanted presence, unavoidable casualties of a war that shouldn't be happening, psycho soldiers who think Iraq is a video game, and countless others. It's a pretty big assumption, and an unfair one, to claim that I'm talking specifically about one of those things.


I believe the point CF is that, even though we both feel our soldiers' efforts are misdirected, that without them we COULD be attacked, ya know?

Well, yeah. And my next door neighbor COULD scrape my car tomorrow morning backing out of the parking lot, but I'm not going to go knock on his door and preemptively punch him in the face.



You and I typically agree on political issues, and I don't think we're terribly far off on this one so I'm not going to spend a lot of time arguing it, but I still think there is an emotional response to my initial comments that is simply not warranted. I'll readily admit it was flippant, and it was intended to be, but it was so in response only to the Toby Keith-ish version of patriotism that says everything the U.S. military (as an institution) does is good and important and honorable just because someone, somewhere, said so.

[chode_regulator]

Again, that's reading something into my post that simply isn't there. ..

You're right. Seems country stars are quick to jump on the bandwagon of patriotism but it speaks louder about the people who consume this than the pepole who put it out. Consumer stops buying crap, companies stop putting out crap.

your condor and car scrape examples are apples and oranges.
Are you seriously comparing a condor swoopiong down and carrying you away to the possibility of a country being invaded? :lol

[CuckingFunt]

From your own keyboard.
trees protecting you from condors...etc etc

If you don't feel Iraqis hate us, would you walk down the street of downtown baghdad unprotected? I bet not.

Is the purpose of this war, then, to ensure that Iraq is a more accommodating tourist destination? There are tons of countries that hate us, why are we not at war with all of them?

The specific comment to which I was responding was that our troops were currently at war to protect my freedoms. Being liked and welcomed with warm hugs and puppy dogs in every corner of the globe isn't a freedom.


If you really feel taht a military is not needed, again, can't help you there but I would have to stronly disagree.

Thankfully soldiers aren't getting treated at home the way they were after 'nam but I mean come on. "We don't need a military." :downspin:
I guess the world is all roses and rainbows to some. :rolleyes

And yes you are right, Marines and soldiers love killing women and children. Like the quote says "you just lead them less"

If you can find me a single post where I said specifically that we don't need a military or that soldiers love killing women and children, I'll stop posting in this thread.

[CuckingFunt]

Are you seriously comparing a condor swoopiong down and carrying you away to the possibility of a country being invaded? :lol

No. I'm not.

I'm suggesting that we have no more proof that our presence in either Iraq or Afghanistan has successfully stopped a terrorist attack than I have proof that the trees in my parking lot have successfully prevented a condor attack.

[marini martini]

I heard Iran is offering the cheapest sex change operations!!!!

[phyzik]

My brother comes home in February. He did 2 tours in Iraq. Im glad I told him what I did and still feel the same way.... fuck the Geneva Conventions, if you feel a threat, fucking shoot first, shoot again, shoot some more and ask questions after all the threats are dead.

he has survived countless IED's and ambushes. I already know he needs therapy.

for those that know military, he is 88-mike. transportation. He hits IED's on a daily basis. I attribute it to luck. this fucker would be walking with me and a friend and would find money along the side of a ditch. Im not talking a few dollars.... he would find $50 to $100 almost everytime!

I cant wait for him to come home. Me, him and another adopted brother are all that is left of our direct family. Our father passed away January 6th of 2000, our mother passed away November 16th 2006.

Im the one taking care of the family house.

[duncan228]

Your brother will stay in my thoughts phyzik. Hope he stays safe.

[xellos88330]

No. I'm not.

I'm suggesting that we have no more proof that our presence in either Iraq or Afghanistan has successfully stopped a terrorist attack than I have proof that the trees in my parking lot have successfully prevented a condor attack.

Well, the United States hasn't been attacked since. So I suppose that it is working.

On another note, why a condor. It's a scavenger. It will just float above the trees waiting for you to die, then flutter down all happy like and commence to feast. What a goofy analogy :lol

[CuckingFunt]

Well, the United States hasn't been attacked since. So I suppose that it is working.

Then so are my trees. Cool.


On another note, why a condor. It's a scavenger. It will just float above the trees waiting for you to die, then flutter down all happy like and commence to feast. What a goofy analogy :lol

The ridiculousness of a vicious condor attack was a big reason I chose that example, but since you don't get the very basics of the point I was making I wouldn't expect you to have picked up on that.

[xellos88330]

Then so are my trees. Cool.



The ridiculousness of a vicious condor attack was a big reason I chose that example, but since you don't get the very basics of the point I was making I wouldn't expect you to have picked up on that.

I got your point from the very beginning. You have basically been saying that everything being done overseas isn't doing anything here, and it creates an illusion of safety.

Well there is one solid point I can make against this argument.

1 dead terrorist = 1 less threat to US security.

I think that is protection.

[DMX7]

I got your point from the very beginning. You have basically been saying that everything being done overseas isn't doing anything here, and it creates an illusion of safety.

Well there is one solid point I can make against this argument.

1 dead terrorist = 1 less threat to US security.

I think that is protection.

Only if that "terrorist" actually had the capacity to harm us which few do. Not to mention many of the people attacking us over there are doing so simply because we're occupying their land, not because they hate America.
We're probably at greater risk from collapsing in war debt than we are from plenty more terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. Fighting in Afghanistan forever helped both the British and Russian empires crumble. It seems to be having a dangerously similar effect here.

[xellos88330]

Only if that "terrorist" actually had the capacity to harm us which few do. Not to mention many of the people attacking us over there are doing so simply because we're occupying their land, not because they hate America.
We're probably at greater risk from collapsing in war debt than we are from plenty more terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. Fighting in Afghanistan forever helped both the British and Russian empires crumble. It seems to be having a dangerously similar effect here.

War is definitely expensive. Can't say anything about that. The terrorists seem to be using political warfare being used kinda like in Vietnam. The evil man in me just wants to turn all those nations into a big shiny sheet of glass and be done with it. On the other hand, I don't think the innocent people should pay for the stupidity of the few.

All terrorists have the capacity of pushing a button, or pulling a trigger. That is all that is necessary to commit acts of terror. I mean they have suicide bombers who kill themselves for 72 virgins or whatever. That is all they need.

[DMX7]

All terrorists have the capacity of pushing a button, or pulling a trigger. That is all that is necessary to commit acts of terror. I mean they have suicide bombers who kill themselves for 72 virgins or whatever. That is all they need.

Yeah, but they need a plan to actually get here and finance their operation. It took a lot of planning and money for the 9/11 highjackers to do what they did. I doubt many of them could pull it off again especially with the increased security here at home (which still isn't perfect). Let's not forget that these are still people living in a third world country and they're trying to break through the security of the world's only superpower. They did it once but that looks more and more like a fluke everyday. They're really not the most concerning thing to me. I'm more afraid of teen drivers on their cell phone than I am of terrorists.

[LnGrrrR]

Again, that's reading something into my post that simply isn't there.

By specifically listing only women and children, you invited that implication. From your post, one could assume that no actual terrorists were being killed.


There are a lot of ways that women, children, and generally innocent civilians can be killed during a war -- bombs being dropped where they shouldn't be, suicide bombers reacting to our continued unwanted presence, unavoidable casualties of a war that shouldn't be happening, psycho soldiers who think Iraq is a video game, and countless others. It's a pretty big assumption, and an unfair one, to claim that I'm talking specifically about one of those things.

I agree, which is why I am against war in many cases. However, again though, to list only the deaths of women and children, and leave out the 'bad guys' we have killed, seems one-sided.


Well, yeah. And my next door neighbor COULD scrape my car tomorrow morning backing out of the parking lot, but I'm not going to go knock on his door and preemptively punch him in the face.

A poor analogy. I didn't say anything about preemptive war, did I? If the United States had no military, or a weak one, do you or do you not think that the chances of us being attacked would be greater?

The proper analogy would be, if there were no cops, would you think there's a greater or worse chance that your car could be vandalized?


You and I typically agree on political issues, and I don't think we're terribly far off on this one so I'm not going to spend a lot of time arguing it, but I still think there is an emotional response to my initial comments that is simply not warranted. I'll readily admit it was flippant, and it was intended to be, but it was so in response only to the Toby Keith-ish version of patriotism that says everything the U.S. military (as an institution) does is good and important and honorable just because someone, somewhere, said so.

I think the flippancy was the main point I was bringing up. I definitely don't agree with the Toby Keith-ish version of patriotism either. But I don't think swinging it to the other extreme, where our soldiers are considered idiots in the hands of an evil puppet master, or that soldiers are all monsters, etc etc is very fair either.

[LnGrrrR]

The ridiculousness of a vicious condor attack was a big reason I chose that example, but since you don't get the very basics of the point I was making I wouldn't expect you to have picked up on that.

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[chode_regulator]

Fighting in Afghanistan forever helped both the British and Russian empires crumble. It seems to be having a dangerously similar effect here.
Hmmm...I was unaware taht Britain was no longer a player in the international field. Interesting. As for Russia, a hell of a lot more than just Afghanistan caused their crumble. I would say two factors bigger would the be the cold war with the US as well as the corruption in all levels of their govt.

No. I'm not.

I'm suggesting that we have no more proof that our presence in either Iraq or Afghanistan has successfully stopped a terrorist attack than I have proof that the trees in my parking lot have successfully prevented a condor attack.
Actually, when you made the reference about your car being scratched you did exactly this. You quoted Lngrrr who said a military is needed to prevent attacks, he didn't say anything about terrorists. He simply said attacks. I wouldn't expect you to remember all teh way back a few posts though.

Is the purpose of this war, then, to ensure that Iraq is a more accommodating tourist destination? There are tons of countries that hate us, why are we not at war with all of them?

The specific comment to which I was responding was that our troops were currently at war to protect my freedoms. Being liked and welcomed with warm hugs and puppy dogs in every corner of the globe isn't a freedom.



If you can find me a single post where I said specifically that we don't need a military or that soldiers love killing women and children, I'll stop posting in this thread.

Well why only reference the innocents killed? It's a fucking war, shit happens.

Why don't you get on the internet and complain about how McChrystals faggotty rules directly led to 8 Marines getting killed because they weren't allowed to call in a direct air support attack due to them being too close to a village. 8 Americans died because that douche didn't want to risk losing one collateral damage casualty. 8 Americans that whether or not they wanted to be in Afghanistan or not died. Go bitch about that, oh wait, you don't care...that's right.

Take a look back in history jsut a short while ago to 'nam. How many innocents died then? What about WWII? It continually goes down yet will never be perfect. Thankfully we have people like you to point this out though. :rollin We could be flying B 52's over there and dropping thousands of lbs of bombs at a time and completely decimating their country, but we don't. Shit, even if those fucks are in a mosque and shooting at us, can't return fire and sure as shit can't go in after.

As the great Jack Nicholson says, "I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post."