0.4 Vol. Where were you?

[Kool Bob Love]

http://www.laballtalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/fisher-4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/punkboi/fisher.jpg



seeing the game with my family...
duncan shot had me like :hat...
Fisher shot :wow there is no way it went in!..:nope
replay...:depressed
LA WINS!...:bang:cuss
cried myself to sleep...:oops:(
share your story...

[duncan228]

I just remember Duncan's shot and forget everything else.

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan makes the shot, I thought the game was over..celebrated..changed the channel and watched something else, while being very happy..I turn the channel back on a few minutes later, and I see the Lakers celebrating..shock for the rest of the night..still can't believe it..

[xellos88330]

Disbelief... even now. I was at home screaming and hopping around after the Duncan shot. I knew that it was impossible to catch shoot and score on a jumper in that short of time. Time started late and the rest is history.

[Kool Bob Love]

I just remember Duncan's shot and forget everything else.

damn still :( about duncan shot not being the game winner?...

[Spursfan 87]

That was the only time that I cried after a game

[Spursfan 87]

I hate derek fisher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FromWayDowntown]

Section 212.

Unfortunately, I'm the dope who said to everyone sitting around me, after Duncan's shot, "Damn, .4 is enough time to catch and shoot."

:shootme

[bigfish22]

Classy sports bar in Times Square, NYC. Visiting my brother who just graduated from NYU. Surrounded by my entire family (all Laker fans from LA), and I was wearing a fresh new authentic Duncan Nike jersey (as seen below). I was the only 'true' Spurs fan in the entire bar. People had my back throughout the game because everyone in NY hates the Lakers. A bunch of people came over to my table to celebrate with me when Duncan hit his Jordan over Ehlo shot at the top of the key. They all disappeared about 2 minutes later. FML!

[CubanSucks]

Worst sports moment of my life, hands down...and yeah I cried :( but not in the "bawling my eyes out/someone just died" type cry, but pretty damn close :depressed

[bringbackmario]

I pissed everyone off at Crabby Jacks off 281 by running around the bar screaming and hollaring. then tried to convince everyone the nba would overturn the game the next day after review. i really lost it.... it was pretty sad

[Summers]

I pissed everyone off at Crabby Jacks off 281 by running around the bar screaming and hollaring. then tried to convince everyone the nba would overturn the game the next day after review. i really lost it.... it was pretty sad

:lol

I was on the phone with my friend Tricia, watching it and talking about it with her and after Duncan made that shot, we screamed at each other and my husband, who's not a basketball fan, said, "Good. They won. Can I change the channel now?" And I said, "Absolutely not. The game's not over!". I wish I'd let him change the channel.

[Spursmania]

I jumped up and down and screamed with my spouse. We were hugging eachother and celebrating and then Fisher threw up the dagger! I felt the timekeeper should have been fired and lashed a few times...Seriously, I was so mad!

[The Truth #6]

House sitting in Topanga Canyon. Walked around outside for about 3 hours in a daze, calling friends around the country to discuss.

[Samr]

I was at the game. When we were walking out, a Laker fan started a fight with a Spurs fan. The next day I sent a 3-page letter to the NBA and a few others, utilizing online articles about human reaction times to explain why .4 seconds was not enough time to shoot (and also that human error had to be accounted for).

I heard back from two places. The NBA basically told me to stfu. Mark Cuban said he actually agreed with my letter, but that the NBA was basically going to tell me to stfu.

If I ever meet Derek Fisher in person, I'm going to kick him in the shins.

[B-Hath]

Pacing frantically in front of my tv. I went bonkers when Tim's shot went in. But I immediately looked at the game clock. I knew there was enough time for a shot. When Fisher's shot went in, I knew it shouldn't have counted, but I also knew it would. I went fetal for literally an hour. And I was pretty comatose all that night. Those bastard Lakers devoured my basketball soul. I hate them with the fire of a thousand suns.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

I was 15, living overseas in Greece with my family. Had to get up at like 2:30 AM to watch the game (we were homeschooled, and my mom let my brother and I watch the games as long as we kept up our grades and didn't fall asleep during schooltime). My dad (a hardcore, but extremely intelligent laker fan) was there too, watching the end of the game before leaving for work that morning. I remember being down 20+, the Spurs' stirring comeback, and that ridiculously magical shot by Timmy--must've screamed myself hoarse. Then the absolute worst sports-related feeling in the world when fisher hit his shot--even my dad was in disbelief that it went in. Then being too stunned to cry (even though I wanted too--I'd created a name for myself in the household as a Spurs fanatic after shedding tears following the Spurs' failed title defense in 2000 lol). Don't even remember much but that numb feeling and just going through the motions that whole day.

Hurt so bad I couldn't bring myself to watch a replay of that game until after game 7 of the '05 Finals.

[spursnatic]

I was actually living in Dallas, well Coppell at the time...I was so confident it was gonna be another Championship year?...Spurs were up 2-0 in the series, on our way....And then it all fell apart...Lakers were on the come back..I was freaking out....Fisher hit that shot and I knew that would hurt the Spurs confidence...I still to this day, don't think that shot should have counted though?...0.4 seconds and the way Fisher shoots with that super high release and arch?...I think it was not off in time, because he had to catch the ball...Go up super high to get the shot off, and then the high release?....IMO he didn't get it off in time?...But it is over and there is nothing that could be done now...I think Sacramento found that out the hard way back in the early 2000's?.....Fuck the Lakers...FAKERS

[BlackBellamy]

I was living in Boston and watched it at a local bar. Needless to say, I was in good company as far as a cheering section (buncha fuckin' townies). My buddies from up there were all patting me on the back and ordering shots. Then Fisher's shot went down and from that point on I have car crash memory. I can only assume it's the feeling that one gets when they have a stroke. I proceeded to get bombed and then attempted to not tear up from rage (with a squirt here or there) on the Night-Owl Bus home while replaying that motherficking shot over and over in my mind. Imagine having to take a late night bus home, in Boston (tough guy stabbie central), (basically) crying with the occasional drunk expletive. Luckily I had friends 'cause I was a mess.

[CubanSucks]

Wow I've always thought I was being a baby for how painfully bad I felt after that game but from the other posts in here it's obvious I'm not the only one who was so bad off. Can you imagine if all of us in here were together during this; it would have made things a WHOLE lot easier for us when it happened. :lol

[Udokafan05]

I was and still am in denial. Its physically impossible to do that shot in .4.

[cornbread]

At the game. It sucked.

Great thread topic BTW. I love reliving bad memories.

[eyeh8u]

i remember seeing the replay and seeing them start the clock way late

[jdev82]

i was young, but still a die hard spurs fan, not to the point i am now, following stats and the rest of the league and whatnot, but still. all i remember is fishers shot and him being so happy afterwards and i hated him. i also remember rick foxs face, and to this day i hate rick fox. i hate him so much. shouldntve counted, did, and the lakers are happy about it. i cried.

[Carie]

If you look at your picture from the top right corner, I was about an inch down and six seats to the right. With both hands I was grabbing people around me screaming at them, "Did it he get it off in time? DID HE GET IT OFF IN TIME?"

Then I was calling my husband screaming at him to watch the replay. I probably called Summers somewhere in there screaming at her too.

Bad night.

[Obstructed_View]

I just remember feeling empty. Duncan's shot was one of the most clutch plays I'd ever seen, and would probably be on all those highlight playoff countdown shows today if not for Fish's shot. I watched that replay with my PVR about a thousand times trying to find a way that I could say it wasn't a good shot or that the Spurs had been robbed. There was just no way to do it. Fish got the shot off in time over good defense after the refs mistakenly gave them .4 instead of .8.

The big consolation for me was that the Spurs were going to come back strong and win the series, and they didn't even bother to show up.

[cnyc3]

I had a basketball game that started before the spurs/lakers game ended, so i decided to stay late and finish watching. After Timmy hit that shot, I jumped for joy and started getting my things for my game. As i had everything ready to go, i wanted to see final buzzer and after fisher hit that shot, i just stared blankly at the tv for a good 10 minutes, and drove to my game all dejected.

the worst part is some of my teammates were laker fans, and i had to tell them what happened since they did not watch

[Blackjack]

I just remember feeling empty. Duncan's shot was one of the most clutch plays I'd ever seen, and would probably be on all those highlight playoff countdown shows today if not for Fish's shot. I watched that replay with my PVR about a thousand times trying to find a way that I could say it wasn't a good shot or that the Spurs had been robbed. There was just no way to do it. Fish got the shot off in time over good defense after the refs mistakenly gave them .4 instead of .8.

The big consolation for me was that the Spurs were going to come back strong and win the series, and they didn't even bother to show up.

You're right that there should have been closer to .8 on the shotclock and not the .4 that they ended up with, but that's human error that at that point in time -- a non end-game or quarter situation where 0.0 shows on the clock -- can't be reviewed under NBA policy.

End-game situation's, like .4 where 0.0 shows on the clock are reviewable and subject to scrutiny; unfortunately, that scrutiny, for whatever reason, doesn't consist of whether a clock started the precise moment the ball hits a players hand.

It's been proven over the years that it takes no less than .5 seconds to secure and shoot the ball in a relatively normal motion. Tips and one-handed/unnatural shots can be executed in less time but not a shot like the one Fisher executed.

The fact of the matter is, in the grand scheme of things the right team won the game. There should have been more time on the clock and Fisher's shot would have easily got off in .8.

But by the rules the NBA's set forth, the shot should have never counted; it may look like he got it off in .4 by the replay -- and I've seen it a million times -- but that clock didn't start when the ball made contact with Fisher.

He came to the ball, the ball made contact with his hand, he secured the ball as his feet hit the ground, and just as he exploded and started the motion of his shot, the clock started.

The refs and the NBA rationalized the shot getting off in .4 because of the reaction-time, .2, it takes for the ref to hit the timer on their belt. And that's what had me laughing this year, because I was hearing the Tirico and Breen's saying you technically only need .3 showing on the clock to get a shot off..

Ridiculous...

[SpurCharger]

.4 Never heard of it!! Derek Fisher??? Who The Hell Is That?

[50Bestspurever]

I was stationed at Luke AFB at the time in phoenix. Was at a bar crowed with LA fans wearing all of my Spurs gear. I was yelling at the top of my lungs when Timmy hit his shot and talking shit. I had to practically crawl out of the bar after Fisher’s shot. Fuking sucked.

[xellos88330]

GROUP THERAPY SESSION!!! :lol

[alamo50]

Listening to the game and being in a Spurs forum chat room in front of my pc in the middle of the night.

[#2!]

watching w/ my family and telling everyone how Tim's shot would go down as one of the top 5 most clutch shots in history, and the shot of his career, and then got STFU by Fisher. I remember saying that it didn't go down in time b/c all the Lakers were running off the court as if they didn't believe it themselves. Took a long time to get over that one...if I am that is

[Muser]

Watched it with my friend who's a Laker fan, never have I been so depressed in my life.

[td_tp_manu]

It was relatively easier for me. It was in the morning here, and I was in university. I got back from the first class and saw spurs down a lot (mid 2nd/3rd quarter?). Adding that to the two losses before that, I kind of give up. So when I'm back from the 2nd class and saw Spurs only lost by 1, I was even a bit positively surprised...

Having said that, both shots are truly unbelievable in human history.

[21_Blessings]

http://hingedman.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/040513_derekfisher_vmed_8pwidec.jpg

[Mel_13]

One thing that's not debatable about that game is that Shaq delivered one of the great impromptu post game quotes ever.

[Spurs Brazil]

I was in my room, the game was on ESPN Brazil.
Duncan made the shot and I went CRAZY. For me the game was over
I was stand for the last quarter and then Fisher made that one and I remember I sit on the bad and I stayed looking and thinking nothing for the next 10 minutes or so. After that I tried to slept but couldn't.
The funny thing is when Horry made the big shot in Detroit the first thing that I thought was, wait to the game end to celebrate and that time it worked :)

[Kermit]

Easily one of the worst sports days of my entire life. Easily.

I worked as a bartender at a country club in Austin at the time. We had a function, either a wedding or a giant law firm dinner. I don't remember which as I have tried to burn this night out of my memory forever. Back in the day, I couldn't afford cable and so dvr was out of the question. I would record the game on my vcr, hope like hell I made it home without anyone at work telling me the score (which is really hard to do in a place that employs about 1000 workers), and watch the game as if it was happening in real time.

So, throughout the night people around me (patrons and co-workers) are talking about the game and I keep telling them that I'm recording it and I don't want to know anything. Amazingly enough, they acquiesce. Then, around 12, some guys are walking through talking about this amazing ending and I run around the corner with my fingers in my ears going lalalalalalalalalalalalala. I peek around the corner and they're gone. My heart is racing. "Amazing ending? Holy shit!" I say to myself, and I start getting amped for this game. About three I make it home knowing only that something magnificient is waiting for me on the end of that tape.

So cue to the end of the game and I'm fucking juiced. They're inbounding the ball and I'm telling myself, "This is it!" Duncan gets it, throws up some lucky shit and bam!!!!!! I'm running around my house, fucking screaming at 5 in the morning. I'm jumping off couches, I'm running around outside, I'm slamming my beer, I'm dry-humping the t.v. screaming "FuckyouPhilyouFuckingassholeFuckyouKobeCryYouLittl eBitchahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah a"

Just then my roomate walks out.

"What the fuck is going on?"

"Dude. OhMYGod! Duncan just hit the most amazing shot to win the game!!!!"

"It's not over."

"What do you mean?"

"Nothing. (He knew I hated to have anyone ruin it for me. I wish he would have.) Enjoy your win."

.4

Inbound play. Wait, why isn't anyone guarding the ball?

To Fisher. Holy shit that looks.....

To this day, I think my heart is still in that apartment.

To have made it home without knowing the score and having to endure that bullshit..

Fuck that game. Fuck Derek Fisher. Fuck L.A.

From now one I always follow in real time.

[CGD]

Why start a thread asking us to relive one of the most painful moments in Spurs history? (Unless of course you are deep down a lakers fan...)

The saving grace that years was that the Pistons smacked the Lakers in the finals...

[widowmaker]

I was somewhere in the pacific ocean on a USS ship watching the game with a few other people from San Antonio. It was a good game but I really believe that shot was bullshit no way on earth someone can get a shot off in 0.4. Someone do it again and I'll believe it.

[silverblackfan]

I was at home in Seattle sitting on the floor after Duncan's shot praying that the defense would hold. I thought for sure that the shot was impossible to make and went into full denial mode for about an hour. Hate even thinking about the game to this day.

[HarlemHeat37]

Just think about how Pistons fans felt during the Horry stretch..the Fisher shot was quick and painful..the Horry sequence was long and painful..must have sucked being on the other side of that..

[Spursmania]

GROUP THERAPY SESSION!!! :lol


For real...:lol

[Kool Bob Love]

Why start a thread asking us to relive one of the most painful moments in Spurs history? (Unless of course you are deep down a lakers fan...)

The saving grace that years was that the Pistons smacked the Lakers in the finals...

Spurs fan for life...:flag:

Also to see if i was the only who cried...guess am not...


Just think about how Pistons fans felt during the Horry stretch..the Fisher shot was quick and painful..the Horry sequence was long and painful..must have sucked being on the other side of that..

NO Fisher shot >>>>>> Horry Shot
No one knew fisher shot would go in....Horry you already knew his background...

[Kermit]

the pistons won the game after the horry shot. spurs, not so lucky.

[in2deep]

for some reason losing to the mavs in game 7 in OT was more painful to me

[HarlemHeat37]

for some reason losing to the mavs in game 7 in OT was more painful to me

easily..

at least with the Fisher shot, he still had to make an incredible play, probably the luckiest player in NBA history(considering the circumstances)..he still had to make the tough shot..

the Dallas game was over if Manu puts his hand back..we handed that title to Miami..

[Kool Bob Love]

for some reason losing to the mavs in game 7 in OT was more painful to me

maybe because you didn't see it live, or you were not a fan that season...
that mavs game is #2 in hard losses the spurs had....

[Sissiborgo]

I had just arrived to florida to meet my brother! came in the doors when there were last chance for Lakers.. And Fisher had it! bad income to florida!

[Baseline]

Still the worst officiating in the history of American sports.

The fact that Stern didn't overule that shot will be the largest stain on an already stained resume.

Stern's legacy wil be that he would jump in front of a train for the big market teams, and would never hesitate topush the small market teams in front of a train. Like he did to us that year.

[ATRAIN]

First time in sports I felt sick to my stomach.

I was watching and celebrating with my roomates at the time and saying no way he has enough time to shoot it and I still believe it. no way Fish had enough time the way he shoots. Fucking BULLSHIT. That and the Manu foul and we would have 2 more championships under our belt. Oh well guess we will just have to get one this year.:flag:

[Kermit]

Still the worst officiating in the history of American sports.

The fact that Stern didn't overule that shot will be the largest stain on an already stained resume.

Stern's legacy wil be that he would jump in front of a train for the big market teams, and would never hesitate topush the small market teams in front of a train. Like he did to us that year.

blame the time-keeper guy. it's not stern's fault. overriding that shot would've caused mass riots in l.a. think of the children.

[bdictjames]

In my home, 2nd floor, watching the Spurs game by myself while the family was having a nice lunch downstairs.

Jumped in excitement of how Tim's shot went in. Thoughts came to my head, I can't believe we're one game away from winning the series.

Then Fish shot came in.

To be honest, I said, oh well, damn Lakers too powerful anyway. Another title for Kobe and Shaq.. I was more of in shock that they lost to the Pistons in 5 games.

[Crookshanks]

I was in San Antonio, and my husband was in LA. We were both watching the game and talking on the phone. I was a nervous wreck and then Timmy made that miracle shot. My husband started screaming "we won, we won"! But I said no, it's not over yet and this is the Lakers. Boy was I right - when that Fisher shot went in, I was in shock and just couldn't believe it. I started crying and cried most of the night. I was so distraught that I called in sick the next day!

I still haven't gotten over that loss - and I hate Derek Fisher with a passion. I think that's when I really, really started hating the Lakers. But at least I got some measure of satisfaction because I grew up in Michigan and it was pure pleasure watching the Pistons destroy the Lakers.

[z0sa]

I was just sickened, literally sickened. I couldn't sleep that night. I was in utter shock and disbelief the refs didn't start it on time. It just doesn't even compare with the Manu foul, I mean it was so much worse to see that shot swish through the net. I'll never understand why Pop decides to not guard inbounds passers with no time on the clock. Yeah just get a free, crisp chest pass to whomever you choose!

[Obstructed_View]

But by the rules the NBA's set forth, the shot should have never counted; it may look like he got it off in .4 by the replay -- and I've seen it a million times -- but that clock didn't start when the ball made contact with Fisher.

He came to the ball, the ball made contact with his hand, he secured the ball as his feet hit the ground, and just as he exploded and started the motion of his shot, the clock started.

I'm going to make this very, very clear if I can. I didn't look at when the clock started, and I only used the tenths of a second ticking down to make sure that it took three frame advances on my PVR to equal a tenth of a second. From the moment he touched the ball to the time the ball left his hands was less than 12 frame advances, which would equal four tenths of a second. Whether the clock started late or not isn't relevant, because he'd still have gotten it off if he had. I probably rewound and did the same thing several dozen times trying to find a way to invalidate that shot in some way.

Fish did not pause, he did not collect the ball, he did not gather himself. Payton hit him in the perfect spot and he caught the ball and shot it in the same motion.

[Obstructed_View]

I was just sickened, literally sickened. I couldn't sleep that night. I was in utter shock and disbelief the refs didn't start it on time. It just doesn't even compare with the Manu foul, I mean it was so much worse to see that shot swish through the net. I'll never understand why Pop decides to not guard inbounds passers with no time on the clock. Yeah just get a free, crisp chest pass to whomever you choose!

Manu was right in his face. Not sure how it could have been defended any better.

[FkLA]

I'm going to make this very, very clear if I can. I didn't look at when the clock started, and I only used the tenths of a second ticking down to make sure that it took three frame advances on my PVR to equal a tenth of a second. From the moment he touched the ball to the time the ball left his hands was less than 12 frame advances, which would equal four tenths of a second. Whether the clock started late or not isn't relevant, because he'd still have gotten it off if he had. I probably rewound and did the same thing several dozen times trying to find a way to invalidate that shot in some way.

Fish did not pause, he did not collect the ball, he did not gather himself. Payton hit him in the perfect spot and he caught the ball and shot it in the same motion.

Technically you can catch and shoot in .4 seconds.

But Fish didnt do that. He catches the ball at his lap in the air, lands, jumps up and brings the ball up, all while slightly fading away...than releases. Whats done is done but personally I will never admit that shot was good. That wasnt a clean catch and shoot, there were other small motions that simply make that shot impossible to get off in such a small amount of time. As far as LA needing .8 before the shot, that stuff happens practically every possesion...a few tenths/seconds are always lost after a shot. So not only would we have to put back LA's .8 seconds shot but also the other seconds lost, it would be too complicated and slow the game down way too much. Thats why reviews are limited to last second plays. I sometimes wonder if the Lakers were on the wrong end of this shot if Stern wouldve overturned it.

Anyways I was at home, thrilled when the TD shot down...than followed up with the worst sports related feeling Ive ever felt. I said two words total the next day at school. 'Fuck Fisher' to my Laker fan buddy.

[HarlemHeat37]

I understand what O_V is saying, and I can't disagree with him, since he seems to have the facts down..but I agree with those that are questioning what would have happened had the Lakers been in our situation..

[Obstructed_View]

Anyways I was at home, thrilled when the TD shot down...than followed up with the worst sports related feeling Ive ever felt. I said two words total the next day at school. 'Fuck Fisher' to my Laker fan buddy.

That about sums it up. Whether or not it should or should not have counted sort of wore off pretty fast, as I realized that the Spurs were never going to get that game back.

And I'm sure we all share my sentiment when I say: Thank God for the Pistons.

[Fdawg07]

i was at the at&t center in the box suites....and i just sat there after the whole arena emptied...it was sad...

[Mr.Robinson]

Watching at home with about 6 friends and my two brothers who are all Lakers fans. I still think Shaq fouled Tim in the shot prior to 0.4. I was waiting for a tip to a big or something. Never thought they'd actually let a player shoot a turn around jumper with so little time. It didn't hurt that much. I didn't think the Spurs could win it all that season.
2006 now that loss haunted me for weeks. To the point of waking up at night and crying.

[Carie]

And I'm sure we all share my sentiment when I say: Thank God for the Pistons.

I became a Piston's fan that year. My motto was "anyone but the Lakers".

[z0sa]

Manu was right in his face. Not sure how it could have been defended any better.

I remember. He threw both arms straight at him. There was no WAY that shot could even be clo--swish

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

I was watching it at my house upstairs, my dad came upstairs to watch the last few plays of the game. I was going crazy when Duncan's shot went in and my dad was pretty damn happy as well. We were both saying that it would be impossible for the lakers to get a shot off.... well we all know what happened

[CubanSucks]

I was watching it at my house upstairs, my dad came upstairs to watch the last few plays of the game. I was going crazy when Duncan's shot went in and my dad was pretty damn happy as well. We were both saying that it would be impossible for the lakers to get a shot off.... well we all know what happened

Reverse rolls for me. I had left the living room and gone to my room pissed cause of how bad they were playing that game (and cause i'm superstitious and wanted to change things up). After Duncan's shot I ran downstairs going crazy with my dad. Jokingly he told me to go back to my room since their comeback started the first time I went to my room. When fisher's shot went I let out a quick, very loud NO!

[Summers]

Still the worst officiating in the history of American sports.

The fact that Stern didn't overule that shot will be the largest stain on an already stained resume.

Stern's legacy wil be that he would jump in front of a train for the big market teams, and would never hesitate topush the small market teams in front of a train. Like he did to us that year.

It's been 5 years... let the Stern conspiracies go! :)

As for the debate over whether it's physically possible, I think Kori said once she and the woai guys actually slo-mo'd it and timed it and it was a legit basket, even if the timer had started on time.

[Spursmania]

for some reason losing to the mavs in game 7 in OT was more painful to me

Oh man, let's not even go there. I wanted to choke Joey Crawford in that series and have hated his guts ever since!!!!

[Summers]

I probably called Summers somewhere in there screaming at her too.



I don't recall that, but I do remember you calling me from game 7 of the 07 finals as the final seconds counted down. We couldn't hear each other, but I listened to the screaming from your phone for about 9 minutes before I hung up. :downspin:

[Old School 44]

I was at home in Austin (in SA now) watching with my wife. Right after Duncan's shot my brother in SA called. It took me a while to answer since I was trying to watch the replay. I picked up the same time my old cassette driven answering machine did. I didn't bother to turn it off, it continued to record.

My brother and I started celebrating, I forget his exact words, but as I'm talking to him, in the background, I could hear his wife screaming "Oh no! Oh no!" Followed by my brother screaming numerous explicatives. I looked at our living room TV and couldn't believe it. I hung up and waited for the review and overrule that never came.

Even though it made me sick to my stomach at the time, I still kept the cassette recording. It was just raw emotion, from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows.

[TDMVPDPOY]

that was the worst time keeping

and stern cant afford to have the fakers hof4 team ousted early in the 2nd round...

wouldve prefer to see spurs v wolves td v kg to settle the debate.

[Blackjack]

That about sums it up. Whether or not it should or should not have counted sort of wore off pretty fast, as I realized that the Spurs were never going to get that game back.

First off, just so we're straight, we're in complete agreement on whether or not it should have counted. That was never the major contention of mine and I only ventured into this subject after your response to my, what was supposed to be, flippant comment.

Had you not said I was wrong on every level, I wouldn't even have bothered; like you, I accepted and moved on from it pretty fast.


I'm going to make this very, very clear if I can. I didn't look at when the clock started, and I only used the tenths of a second ticking down to make sure that it took three frame advances on my PVR to equal a tenth of a second. From the moment he touched the ball to the time the ball left his hands was less than 12 frame advances, which would equal four tenths of a second. Whether the clock started late or not isn't relevant, because he'd still have gotten it off if he had. I probably rewound and did the same thing several dozen times trying to find a way to invalidate that shot in some way.

Fish did not pause, he did not collect the ball, he did not gather himself. Payton hit him in the perfect spot and he caught the ball and shot it in the same motion.

I don't believe you're a liar or a moron and I'll respect your findings, but I can't honestly take it as the gospel; I remember Don Harris and his crew doing the same thing in his newsroom, breaking it down frame-by-frame with what I suspect was some pretty decent technology, and stating that it took 0.5 at best but they believed it to be 0.6.

Now, am I gonna sit here and say I take Don Harris' opinion as the gospel? Of course not. But when you're dealing with tenths-of-a-second and a subjective-eye judging when the ball makes contact with a players fingertip, finding consensus isn't all that easy.

The problem I have with 0.4, is that the conventional wisdom and widely accepted conclusion was that it took 0.5 to catch and shoot. After Trent Tucker and a couple others, the researchers came to the finding of 0.5 as their magic number. That same 0.5 would permeate to all the big-time and lesser announcers calling end-game situations: 'Now, you only have to have 0.5 on the clock to catch and shoot.' and it might have even influenced a little bit of pop culture with the likes of NBA Jam; remember how long it takes to get a last-second shot off?

0.4 was never the number prior to that year to get a shot off; I might be wrong, but I just don't recall it. If you asked anyone calling or playing the game, they'd all tell you 0.5 was what was needed to catch and shoot.

Again, it was accepted.

Could they all have been wrong and maybe behind the times in clock accuracy, technologically speaking? I suppose; I mean, it's not out of the realm given the advancements. But I tend to lean towards the pre-'04/.4 line of thinking. People smarter than I came up with the number without any extenuating circumstance, so I really have no reason to question it.

Now, to my real point of contention.

Why 0.4?

Would we even have ever asked that had Fisher's shot not gone down; honest question. I mean, if you remember how the league explained to the Spurs, and eventually the league, how a shot could get off in 0.4, you'd remember the 'reaction-time.' -- The league stated that the device worn on the belt of the three officials to start the clock, the quickest one to trigger being the one that initiated the start of the clock, had a 0.2 lag because of reaction-time. --

This is where it becomes laughable.

Forget everything I've written above and just actually think about that. It takes 0.2 in reaction-time to initiate the start of the clock, so it's perfectly reasonable that a shot that takes 0.5 -- if you're in my line of thinking -- or 0.4 would only need to have 0.3 or 0.2 showing on the clock to successfully catch and shoot.

What?

Well, that's the rationale, and there's nothing rational about it.

Call me a cynic, but if that's not a league cash-cow hitting a shot with 0.4, I'm guessing it's waved off.

The rationale being: 'You have to have 0.5 to successfully catch-and-shoot.'

And in my eyes, they would have been right; it would have at least saved them the trouble of explaining a successful 0.3 catch-and-shoot.

[Baseline]

Two Questions

1. Are timekeepers supplied by the NBA or from the home team?

2. Who were the three refs in that game?

[Bigzax]

blanco tavern. worst .4 seconds of my life.

[disciple]

The most __________ sports day of my entire life.

Just fill in the blank and I went through that emotion.

exilerating
angered
sad
confused
depressed
and on and on

[Obstructed_View]

The problem I have with 0.4, is that the conventional wisdom and widely accepted conclusion was that it took 0.5 to catch and shoot. After Trent Tucker and a couple others, the researchers came to the finding of 0.5 as their magic number. That same 0.5 would permeate to all the big-time and lesser announcers calling end-game situations: 'Now, you only have to have 0.5 on the clock to catch and shoot.' and it might have even influenced a little bit of pop culture with the likes of NBA Jam; remember how long it takes to get a last-second shot off?

Okay, I hate to beat this dead horse into the ground, and I mean no disrespect at all, but one of the reasons for my earlier statement is that your facts don't fit with mine on this. Tucker caught the ball and shot it with .1 on the clock and it was counted. The NBA later amended their rules that it takes at least .3 to catch and shoot, and unless a ball is a tip-in or alley-oop, there must be .3 or more on the clock. Check the NBA rulebook and Google the "trent tucker rule" for more info. What Fisher did was far less than a catch-and-shoot since he did it in one motion, and he had 33 percent more time to do it in. By all logic without ever having to watch a slo-mo replay, he got the shot off in plenty of time.


0.4 was never the number prior to that year to get a shot off; I might be wrong, but I just don't recall it. If you asked anyone calling or playing the game, they'd all tell you 0.5 was what was needed to catch and shoot.
Again, the NBA rulebook has stated for years that you must tip the ball in with less than .3 on the clock, but that you may catch and shoot if there is .3 or more on the clock.


Would we even have ever asked that had Fisher's shot not gone down; honest question. I mean, if you remember how the league explained to the Spurs, and eventually the league, how a shot could get off in 0.4, you'd remember the 'reaction-time.' -- The league stated that the device worn on the belt of the three officials to start the clock, the quickest one to trigger being the one that initiated the start of the clock, had a 0.2 lag because of reaction-time. --

Now you have my interest piqued with this, because I'm willing to admit that I actually don't remember this at all. I don't doubt you, I simply have no memory of this. It makes zero sense to me that the league would attempt to justify a guy getting off a shot in 4/10 of a second when the rules clearly state that it's possible to do. There shouldn't be any fudging of numbers about reaction times or any of that. "Look at the rule book" should have been as far as the NBA went with it when pressed for an explanation.

Anybody have a link to the NBA's explanation to the Spurs about the .4 shot? Sounds like they shot themselves in the foot from a PR standpoint. Wouldn't surprise me in the least, since they always seem to get panicky when there's any kind of controversy. Since the NBA didn't overturn Trent Tucker catching, turning around and hitting a three pointer with .1 on the clock, I'm puzzled as to why the Spurs would even have bothered asking the league about it.

[Blackjack]

Okay, I hate to beat this dead horse into the ground, and I mean no disrespect at all, but one of the reasons for my earlier statement is that your facts don't fit with mine on this. Tucker caught the ball and shot it with .1 on the clock and it was counted. The NBA later amended their rules that it takes at least .3 to catch and shoot, and unless a ball is a tip-in or alley-oop, there must be .3 or more on the clock. Check the NBA rulebook and Google the "trent tucker rule" for more info.

My point with Tucker wasn't the amount of time, I was aware of it being 0.1, it was the research and findings that came from the incident. I wish I could point to the studies and the people that came to the 0.5 number, but I'm not sure if there was anything ever done 'officially' or if it was just a number thrown out by some people thought to be in the know.

I happened to hear it reinforced by respected commentators and others in the league for years, so, naturally, I assumed it to be true; I didn't have a 0.4 incident to pique my interest enough in order to question it.


What Fisher did was far less than a catch-and-shoot since he did it in one motion, and he had 33 percent more time to do it in. By all logic without ever having to watch a slo-mo replay, he got the shot off in plenty of time

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one; it's much easier and less time-consuming than arguing over something we both feel was irrelevant; 0.8 should have been on the clock.


Again, the NBA rulebook has stated for years that you must tip the ball in with less than .3 on the clock, but that you may catch and shoot if there is .3 or more on the clock.

If it has, that's fine. I'm not going to argue it. But it does make me wonder how I, someone who's followed the league closely, was never made aware of it..

Again, 0.5 was the number I was told from commentators and NBA-types for years.

I've never heard anyone mention 0.3 to successfully catch-and-shoot prior to this last year, but I'm perfectly aware that you can tip or shoot an unnatural/heave-type shot in 0.3 or less.



Now you have my interest piqued with this, because I'm willing to admit that I actually don't remember this at all. I don't doubt you, I simply have no memory of this. It makes zero sense to me that the league would attempt to justify a guy getting off a shot in 4/10 of a second when the rules clearly state that it's possible to do. There shouldn't be any fudging of numbers about reaction times or any of that. "Look at the rule book" should have been as far as the NBA went with it when pressed for an explanation.

Anybody have a link to the NBA's explanation to the Spurs about the .4 shot? Sounds like they shot themselves in the foot from a PR standpoint. Wouldn't surprise me in the least, since they always seem to get panicky when there's any kind of controversy. Since the NBA didn't overturn Trent Tucker catching, turning around and hitting a three pointer with .1 on the clock, I'm puzzled as to why the Spurs would even have bothered asking the league about it.


I'm sure it's out there, after all, it was something I heard about on TV and read in the E-N -- IIRC-- so there should be something to find.

I've got a pretty damn good memory and the story of how the clock is initiated by a mechanism on the refs belt, all three have one and the quickest reaction starts the clock, is something I remember too vividly to be that off about.

Come to think of it, I think I remember David Aldridge on TNT(?) and one of the ESPN guys doing a segment on it shortly after the incident. Pop's complaint/protest to the league's office immediately following the game had them arguing/explaining the league's decision.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm sure it's out there, after all, it was something I heard about on TV and read in the E-N -- IIRC-- so there should be something to find.

I've got a pretty damn good memory and the story of how the clock is initiated by a mechanism on the refs belt, all three have one and the quickest reaction starts the clock, is something I remember too vividly to be that off about.

Come to think of it, I think I remember David Aldridge on TNT(?) and one of the ESPN guys doing a segment on it shortly after the incident. Pop's complaint/protest to the league's office immediately following the game had them arguing/explaining the league's decision.

And I'm sure you're correct, but I didn't live in San Antonio at the time, so I'd have missed out on any local coverage of it. Your explanation of the clock mechanism is dead-on, so that confirms that you obviously saw something of the kind relating to it. I'd be interested in seeing the explanation from the NBA, if for no other reason its comic value, since one would assume the league office would know their own rulebook.

Perhaps the people that seem to have a knack for finding old E/N articles online could help with this one. I've had about as much luck searching mysanantonio.com as I have searching Spurstalk.

[Blackjack]

And I'm sure you're correct, but I didn't live in San Antonio at the time, so I'd have missed out on any local coverage of it. Your explanation of the clock mechanism is dead-on, so that confirms that you obviously saw something of the kind relating to it. I'd be interested in seeing the explanation from the NBA, if for no other reason its comic value, since one would assume the league office would know their own rulebook.

Perhaps the people that seem to have a knack for finding old E/N articles online could help with this one. I've had about as much luck searching mysanantonio.com as I have searching Spurstalk.

:lol

You too; this search thing might as well be something from NASA.

I'll see if I can get someone to help out.

[duncan228]

The search on MySA is useless. :lol

[Blackjack]

The search on MySA is useless. :lol

All of a sudden I'm not feeling like the complete moron I thought myself to be; maybe a bit more of an incomplete moron? :hat

[nadroj117]

Like the rest of you, I'll never forget this night...

So earlier in the day my brother and I had moved out of our apartment in San Marcos, but didn't need to turn the keys in for a couple more days. A week prior, my then girlfriend moved in to the connecting apartment on the same floors as mine. So I watched the game there while my brother watched at a friends house.

In college my brother seemed to always have the worst luck. If I wanted to bet, I'd ask who he liked, and bet the opposite. Worked like a charm. I'm very superstitious and would always get mad at my bro prematurely calling victories, Longhorns or Spurs. When Duncan's shot went in I was yelling like crazy, then my phone rang.... My brother's named popped up, I answered the phone and all I said was "what the fu** are you calling for, Kobe still has 1 more shot left," and hung up on him. At this point i'm still excited but was hoping he didn't jinx it. Sure enough, although fisher and not kobe, 0.4 seconds later my phone flew across the wall and smashed into it shattering. Then I walked over to the apartment I had just moved out of and proceeded to put a fist through the wall. My brother later apologized, and we have an agreement... until the clock says 0.0 in any sport we will not call each other.


Basically I still believe it was my brother's fault and not Fisher's lol kidding

[tlongII]

I was laughing my ass off! :lol

[CubanSucks]

I was laughing my ass off! :lol

Yeah cause with the team that you root for you had nothing else to do :wakeup

[Obstructed_View]

I was laughing my ass off! :lol

This is why I enjoy season-ending injuries to Trailblazer players so much.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

This is why I enjoy season-ending injuries to Trailblazer players so much.

LOL. Tou-freaking-che! :downspin: