Call of Duty MW 2 will NOT be moddable for PC; will NOT allow dedicated servers. [Archive]

balli

10-19-2009, 08:25 AM

worf is IW is pissed at how many PC users aren't playing a bought game but rather just a cracked one
I remember reading a stat once that said well over half of all PC copies are pirated. So I understand. Perhaps when things like this happen, the piracy crazed PC community should take a good, hard look at themselves. Point those fingers back at the voluminous gaggle of their less than honest peers.

That being said, if I were a PC gamer, I'd be furious. As is my understanding, the PC community built CoD and the things that made CoD for PC great, on a fundamental level, will no longer exist. So while I'm sympathetic to the developers, I'm also sympathetic to the community who collected tens of thousands of petition signatures over this, over the course of one day, over a weekend.

Also, I'm calling everybody's bluff who says they're not buying. I've played console CoD and managed to pump 20+ days of my life into it, so yeah, while the PC version might not be the entirely different game it once was, I reject the elitist sentiment that having dedicated servers and customization are a MUST in order for a good time.

Has anybody heard conclusively whether this is an Activision or IW decision, or both?

z0sa

10-19-2009, 08:52 AM

No dedicated servers is some major bullshit, but don't be lame. Console gamers deal with that shit all the time.

DarkReign

10-19-2009, 10:27 AM

Wasnt getting it anyway, but now at least I wont have a single regret about it.

z0sa

10-19-2009, 11:54 AM

I don't mind. Back when everyone had 56k modems it was a problem. Nowadays, its still not as good as dedicated servers and never will be, but is pretty much a non-issue. The main problem is running custom maps etc/.

DarkReign

10-19-2009, 01:59 PM

The main problem is running custom maps etc/.

Bingo.

But really, how different can this game really be when compared to MW1.

Sure, cool new features like customizable streak bonuses, new maps, new weapons, new lvl-ing system, but gameplay-wise...?

Not so much.

Moreover, it just isnt re-inventing the wheel like MW1 did. I dont have a problem with the devs decision to not try anything really different as they have a loyal fanbase that expects only "bigger, better, faster", but when this sort of game gets released amongst the plethora of other games that completely tear their respective genre to threads, its passable for me.

Cry Havoc

10-19-2009, 03:20 PM

I remember reading a stat once that said well over half of all PC copies are pirated. So I understand. Perhaps when things like this happen, the piracy crazed PC community should take a good, hard look at themselves. Point those fingers back at the voluminous gaggle of their less than honest peers.

Actually, this is precisely the kind of thing that leads people to download/pirate games in the first place. THE BEST selling video game franchises are still PC games. The Sims, WoW, and the Half-Life series have all sold over 6 million games a piece. Hmm, strange, doesn't seem to me that piracy has hurt them much.

More than likely it's a developer being pissed off that PC gamers will pirate shitty games instead of buying them, in which case the developer can lose money.

As IronMexican has demonstrated, 360 owners are actively pirating their games... do you see any industry backlash? Was there ever a complaint when the original XBox was hacked?

Furthermore, how is this "resolution" going to prevent people from cracking MW2? So pissing off gamers will lead to LESS piracy? Since when? Obviously the mod community really devastated the sales of CoD4. :rolleyes

That being said, if I were a PC gamer, I'd be furious. As is my understanding, the PC community built CoD and the things that made CoD for PC great, on a fundamental level, will no longer exist. So while I'm sympathetic to the developers, I'm also sympathetic to the community who collected tens of thousands of petition signatures over this, over the course of one day, over a weekend.

CoD owes nearly all of it's massive commercial success due to the PC community. They are pissing right on their faces.

Also, I'm calling everybody's bluff who says they're not buying. I've played console CoD and managed to pump 20+ days of my life into it, so yeah, while the PC version might not be the entirely different game it once was, I reject the elitist sentiment that having dedicated servers and customization are a MUST in order for a good time.

I might still buy it -- however, it had better receive rave reviews from every VG critic before I decide to throw money down on it.

If I were to pose the thought to you that because the design team decided they didn't want to put the effort forth, that CoD:MW2 would only run in 480p, could you make the same suggestion that the game is still fun? Of course you could. That does not make this an understandable or defensible move. Of course the game will still likely be a lot of fun to play -- that's entirely not the point.

No dedicated servers is some major bullshit, but don't be lame. Console gamers deal with that shit all the time.

Exactly, console gamers deal with the shit. One of the many reasons PC offers a better hardcore gaming experience. Dedicated servers are more reliable, faster, and serve as a meeting point for gaming. They foster a sense of community that is impossible to get through localhost. I would have stopped playing CoD4 quite some time ago if I hadn't found a server (with custom content) that had a really, really cool population within it. I still talk to people from the Counterstrike 1.6 days that I met through some awesome dedicated servers.

This, of course, is to say nothing of the ability of dedicated servers to host games with administrative privileges which allow hackers/griefers or other malcontents to be insta-banned.

I don't mind. Back when everyone had 56k modems it was a problem. Nowadays, its still not as good as dedicated servers and never will be, but is pretty much a non-issue. The main problem is running custom maps etc/.

Yes, and so do Left 4 Dead users on the PC. I have a very fast cable modem connection. Last night my entire team was pinging at >200 thanks to the awesome power of the local host. It sucks, and is a massive step BACKWARD for gaming.

And there is no WAY I'm ever paying IF or Activision $10 for 3 freaking maps when I could have paid someone who loves the game $0 for 50-100 better, custom built maps to play on.

z0sa

10-19-2009, 03:34 PM

This, of course, is to say nothing of the ability of dedicated servers to host games with administrative privileges which allow hackers/griefers or other malcontents to be insta-banned.

Admin power also leads to admin abuse, first of all - and I'd say its as commonplace as hacking. I'm not quantifying the two measurably, just making a comparison.

Second, its a positive thing you can leave at any time and discover another completely random assortment of people with the touch of a button. Sure, you may have 40 favorite servers but how many are empty, or which ones aren't filled with bullshit mods that distort the gameplay, which one just got hacked, or is about to go under, or attracts tons of the same morons day after day because its "their" favorite server too.

There's a certain beauty to all strangers, all the time.

Yes, and so do Left 4 Dead users on the PC. I have a very fast cable modem connection. Last night my entire team was pinging at >200 thanks to the awesome power of the local host. It sucks, and is a massive step BACKWARD for gaming.

Oh step off it, Havoc. Millions of console gamers deal with this same issue. It can't be a massive step backward for the entirety of gaming if tons of games use it. I'm sorry it doesn't have it, really I am, but its not going to destroy your gaming experience unless you let it.

And there is no WAY I'm ever paying IF or Activision $10 for 3 freaking maps when I could have paid someone who loves the game $0 for 50-100 better, custom built maps to play on.

Well that's your choice, I don't have that choice and haven't had it for several releases now, besides I like playing the same sets of maps when they're good. You don't see leagues with custom maps, because the officials can be almost universally trusted for balance.

Cry Havoc

10-19-2009, 03:52 PM

Admin power also leads to admin abuse, first of all - and I'd say its as commonplace as hacking. I'm not quantifying the two measurably, just making a comparison.

If I'm on a server where the admins are abusive, I go elsewhere. Simple.

Second, its a positive thing you can leave at any time and discover another completely random assortment of people with the touch of a button. Sure, you may have 40 favorite servers but how many are empty, or which ones aren't filled with bullshit mods that distort the gameplay, which one just got hacked, or is about to go under, or attracts tons of the same morons day after day because its "their" favorite server too.

There's a certain beauty to all strangers, all the time.

And all of the above is possible with dedicated servers, too. You just pick a random server and go. I like knowing that when I connect to a server I'm a reg on that it's not going to consist of people shouting "fag" or mic spamming all of the time.

Oh step off it, Havoc. Millions of console gamers deal with this same issue. It can't be a massive step backward for the entirety of gaming if tons of games use it. I'm sorry it doesn't have it, really I am, but its not going to destroy your gaming experience unless you let it.

So let me get this straight..... if something is highly propagated in the gaming community, it must be a good thing? So you'd call the plethora of games that use Quick-Time Events good? The hundreds of RPGs released every year where you play for 5 minutes and and then watch a 5-10 minute cutscene with absolutely no role-playing element to it is good?

Your reasoning here is just fallacious. There is a very specific reason PC games typically use dedicated servers. Because they rock. How can you possibly suggest that localhosting provides even CLOSE to the same quality of gameplay that a dedicated server does? This is not up for debate. Dedicated >>>>>> Localhost. The fact that IW/Activision is removing the OPTION for PC gamers to enjoy something that is VERY easily included in the game is what is ridiculous. The idea that "well console gamers have to put up with it" is a non-argument. I could care less what console gamers have to deal with. There's a reason I play on PC, and that's because it's superior. More options ALWAYS > less options.

z0sa

10-19-2009, 04:05 PM

its not going to destroy your gaming experience unless you let it.

And besides, if there's enough uproar they could very well reinsert the option..

xellos88330

10-19-2009, 05:24 PM

I prefer to play on console anyways. Less chance of running into hacked players.

eyeh8u

10-19-2009, 07:28 PM

kotick hates his customers having fun.

jman3000

10-19-2009, 08:45 PM

http://games.on.net/article/7188/Modern_Warfare_2_shock_No_servers_or_mods_for_PC_v ersion

I think I'm canceling my pre-order and not buying the game. That's unreal. They're going to lose so much support because of this.

Bring on Battlefield: Bad Company 2.

BF:BC was better than CoD: MW to begin with. Prettier, better sound effects, destructable environments, huge maps, great physics, etc.

Only thing that CoD had on it was the SP.

DarkReign

10-19-2009, 09:27 PM

Also, I'm calling everybody's bluff who says they're not buying.

Actually, I never planned on buying MW2. This little tidbit just sealed the deal.

DarkReign

10-20-2009, 11:17 AM

I was reading Gamespy about this, I liked this comment.

Kay_Tannee on Oct 20, 2009 00:20 PDT

But I'm most certinaly not [going to buy this game] if this turns out to be true. I've been a PC gamer for a very very long time. And companies have been shitting on it, bit by bit, dumbing down and turning ruining it with stupid console ideals.

If people don't refuse to buy this game, then more companies may follow suit. And I really really don't want that.

I like picking which server I play on, fuck off with match making.

Last line seals it for me. I dont want to play with random strangers all the time. I have always found a home or a few homes, so to speak, and stuck with them.

Console players dont know any better, but thats like "PC Gaming 101".

Oh well, one game I wont buy or play...I am quite sure I'll live. But if this becomes a trend, or the PC really does die its death in the name of console (in)equality, I'll just quit gaming period.

Heath Ledger

10-20-2009, 11:35 AM

Oh noes the sky is falling the sky is falling.

Im sure there will be quite a backlash from the pc gamers and something will eventually be done to allow the dedicated servers in the form of a patch or something. If you listen to the full length of that podcast they aren't even totally sure about the no dedicated servers. It's long as fuck though.

MiamiHeat

10-20-2009, 06:46 PM

PC gaming is better than console gaming when it comes to customization and all that stuff

but console gaming > PC gaming in my opinion. i don't want the headaches of upgrading my PC everytime a new game comes out, dealing with cheaters and hackers, pc errors, blah blah blah

PM5K

10-20-2009, 07:03 PM

Over 100K signatures:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?dedis4mw

DarkReign

10-21-2009, 09:15 AM

MiamiHeat, you have the scariest avatar ever. That is all.

Cry Havoc

10-21-2009, 11:16 AM

but console gaming > PC gaming in my opinion. i don't want the headaches of upgrading my PC everytime a new game comes out, dealing with cheaters and hackers, pc errors, blah blah blah

I don't understand this myth.

I still game on my laptop. It will run CoD4 more than competently.

I bought it in the fall of 2006. I haven't upgraded a thing on it since I bought it.

Now, I'm not going to try to run Crysis on it, but since consoles can't run the game either, would you rather have the OPTION of upgrading parts to play the newest games at the highest resolutions, or not have the option to do so?

It's a complete fabrication that PCs need to be upgraded all the time. Usually all that needs to be done is to buy a new graphics card every couple years, and that's if you want to stay ahead of the games.

High-end GPUs are now MUCH cheaper than consoles, and one will last up to 3 years, minimum, and they vastly outperform consoles for graphical quality. Right now you can buy a 4870 for ~$120-130 and it will last you well into 2011.

sabar

10-21-2009, 01:05 PM

I don't understand this myth.

I still game on my laptop. It will run CoD4 more than competently.

I bought it in the fall of 2006. I haven't upgraded a thing on it since I bought it.

Now, I'm not going to try to run Crysis on it, but since consoles can't run the game either, would you rather have the OPTION of upgrading parts to play the newest games at the highest resolutions, or not have the option to do so?

It's a complete fabrication that PCs need to be upgraded all the time. Usually all that needs to be done is to buy a new graphics card every couple years, and that's if you want to stay ahead of the games.

High-end GPUs are now MUCH cheaper than consoles, and one will last up to 3 years, minimum, and they vastly outperform consoles for graphical quality. Right now you can buy a 4870 for ~$120-130 and it will last you well into 2011.

No doubt. My PC is running a processor from 2005 (Athlon XP San Diego). I could easily game on it into 2010 and you could probably get one for $5 these days (if you could find it). I've been running the same memory for the same time too (and memory is dirt cheap). I swapped out my video card for a 4870 and that will last years. This is no different than dropping $400-500 on a new console, hard drive, controllers, cables, wireless adapter, etc. Plus dropping all that cash on a single console when there will be 2-3 different ones you probably want.

Maybe people think that dropping $3000 on a i7 processor, mobo, and bleeding edge memory with 2 gfx cards is a standard upgrade? :lol

On topic, this is just the continuation of the death of PC gaming. The golden era of the 90s is dead. Say hello to the nickle-and-dime world of console gaming where DLC and internet access cost you cash. Perhaps the investors want to pull dedicated servers so that they can bear the brunt of the matchmaking bandwidth cost and use it as an excuse to charge for stuff that should be free.

velik_m

10-22-2009, 03:05 AM

On topic, this is just the continuation of the death of PC gaming. The golden era of the 90s is dead. Say hello to the nickle-and-dime world of console gaming where DLC and internet access cost you cash. Perhaps the investors want to pull dedicated servers so that they can bear the brunt of the matchmaking bandwidth cost and use it as an excuse to charge for stuff that should be free.

http://www.geeks.co.uk/7282-activision%E2%80%99s-bobby-kotick-hates-developers-innovation-cheap-games-you

DarkReign

10-22-2009, 10:14 AM

http://www.geeks.co.uk/7282-activision%E2%80%99s-bobby-kotick-hates-developers-innovation-cheap-games-you

I hope this game falls flat on its fucking face based on reading that cretin.

Sadly, it wont because console-exclusive players dont know the damn difference.

Oh well, I look at it like I am saving $60.

z0sa

10-22-2009, 10:30 AM

I hope this game falls flat on its fucking face based on reading that cretin.

Sadly, it wont because console-exclusive players dont know the damn difference.

Oh well, I look at it like I am saving $60.

It's not the only factor, but a major contributor to the problem is the fact our favorite developers have been forced to band together into conglomerates due to piracy.

Fucking assholes downloading your games is what causes this shit to happen. They need more money. Just imagine if everyone had bought all their games. I bet you we wouldn't have as many advocating penny pinching, widely appealing franchises, and pay to play online.

balli

10-22-2009, 10:35 AM

Sadly, it wont because console-exclusive players dont know the damn difference.
There are plenty of console gamers who know the difference and just don't care.

You're suggesting a boycott of the 360/PS3 versions, on behalf of pc gamers and the pc features console gamers are perfectly entitled to dismiss?

I'm sorry if you feel consoles have lowered the bar for PCs, but shit, as consumers, were entitled to the lower bar, be that our wont. Your community is going to have to fight its own battle.

Heath Ledger

10-22-2009, 10:47 AM

What drove me away from pc gaming (and i was very fond of it)
Too many glitchers/cheaters. And punkbuster booting me off of servers when I had no modified files.

DarkReign

10-22-2009, 11:16 AM

There are plenty of console gamers who know the difference and just don't care.

You're suggesting a boycott of the 360/PS3 versions, on behalf of pc gamers and the pc features console gamers are perfectly entitled to dismiss?

I'm sorry if you feel consoles have lowered the bar for PCs, but shit, as consumers, were entitled to the lower bar, be that our wont. Your community is going to have to fight its own battle.

Totally true. To be honest, I hope CoD/InfinityWard/Activision become console exclusive games, so that I dont have to care.

But the truth is, without the PC community, CoD doesnt even exist for console gamers.

It would be a helluva lot better if IW just came out and said in plain-speak that theyre abandoning the PC as a gaming platform.

Instead, theyre trying to dumb-down whats left of the PC community. Personally, I dont think its going to work. It will sell, it will sell well and there will be a HUGE CoD game coming out in the future to encourage their strategy.

I just think that sucks. Plenty of developers will cater to the PC FPS market making games not capable of being played on consoles (crysis, JOPs, BF, etc) and the clans will find their home somewhere else.

It just bums me out that the pinnacle of personal gaming is being ignored, and somewhat endorsed by console gamers. It almost seems console gamers want the PC to die out of spite. Short-sighted doesnt even being to do justice to that sentiment....more like "utterly fucking imbecile".

But again, Im 30 years old in less than 10 months. I shouldnt be playing this bullshit anyway at my age. Gaming keeps going this way and it will just accelerate the Coming of Age I have been avoiding for about a decade.

Shit, maybe I might have a kid, too.

DarkReign

10-22-2009, 11:19 AM

What drove me away from pc gaming (and i was very fond of it)
Too many glitchers/cheaters. And punkbuster booting me off of servers when I had no modified files.

I have been PC gaming since I Doom. I used to compete in CAL leagues for SoF2, good clan, months of time played in FPS games.

Ive seen....maybe 30 cheaters in all these years. Maybe.

Thats less than 2 a year. Granted, I never played CounterStrike, so that could be where you and I differ. CS was bullshit on a stick.

Heath Ledger

10-22-2009, 11:28 AM

I have seen plenty more than that especially in SOF2 which was one of my all time favorite pc games. Medal of Honor as well. For a short time I modded some files right before i threw in the towel on pc gaming.

I havent totally abandoned it as I have a semi decent rig and will pick up a game every once in a while. (just dl'd Operation Flashpoint and it is mehhh..)

z0sa

10-22-2009, 11:33 AM

CS was bullshit on a stick.

CS was where I did most of my league-level competing. Problem is that hacking was so prevalent, if you had a really good game the other team accused you of it and the evidence for you or against you was incredibly subjective. It's hard to prove your innocence when you are right on a gut instinct.

balli

10-22-2009, 12:19 PM

It just bums me out that the pinnacle of personal gaming is being ignored, and somewhat endorsed by console gamers. It almost seems console gamers want the PC to die out of spite. Short-sighted doesnt even being to do justice to that sentiment....more like "utterly fucking imbecile".
I certainly don't want the PC to die out of spite. I truly do feel bad about what's happening to the industry. And I shouldn't have said I'm sorry if you feel the bar is being lowered by consoles, because it is being lowered by consoles.

Still, I'm a console gamer. Have been since before I got my first Nintendo 22 years ago. Besides the occasional foray into PC, gaming, my entire life, has involved a console, my TV, a controller and quite often a cartridge. I'm a victim of habit and after two decades- ingrained culture.

I'd like to change up in theory, but fuck it, pretty soon I'll be saying:

Im 30 years old in less than 10 months. I shouldnt be playing this bullshit anyway at my age.

Heath Ledger

10-22-2009, 01:21 PM

Im closely pushing 35 and although I don't play as much as I used to I don't see myself not gaming for many years to come.

z0sa

10-22-2009, 01:37 PM

Im closely pushing 35 and although I don't play as much as I used to I don't see myself not gaming for many years to come.

Gaming has been a part of my life since I was in the womb (assuming I heard mario bros. theme since my mom played it a lot while she was pregnant). It will always be a commonly used form of entertainment by me, and that medium is everexpanding. I'm hoping in 25 years I can enter my fullbody VR suit and actually touch and smell the world I'm playing in..

PM5K

10-22-2009, 02:01 PM

Cry Havoc

10-22-2009, 02:16 PM

Fucking assholes downloading your games is what causes this shit to happen. They need more money. Just imagine if everyone had bought all their games. I bet you we wouldn't have as many advocating penny pinching, widely appealing franchises, and pay to play online.

Ah, so you're buying into the whole, "Piracy on the PC is what ruined PC gaming".

This is the same argument as what the RIAA has made that "Napster/Torrenting has ruined music sales."

Because, you know, nothing says, "WE'RE GOING OUT OF BUSINESS ZOMG PIRATES" like absolutely record breaking sales EVERY year.

Again. 6,000,000+ copies of Half Life 2.
100,000,000 (one hundred million) copies of The Sims/Sims 2/Sims 3.
11,000,000+ copies of World of Warcraft.

Left 4 Dead sold so exceedingly well that Valve decided to release a sequel a year later, despite the fact that people are still buying the original.

I'm now playing League of Legends, a game that is COMPLETELY FREE TO OWN AND PLAY, and yet the developers are sure they're going to make money from people buying the optional collectors edition and extra revenue from the other merchandising they're putting into the game.

Even Crysis, a game maligned for it's brutality on GPUs, and a game that was initially purported to be losing money and sales due to piracy, sold over 1,500,000 copies by the mid-point of 2008, which surpassed EA's sales expectations. Amazing. A game that was publicized by EA for sluggish sales due to piracy ended up selling MORE games than they projected to. Perhaps sales sucked because no one had a computer that could run Crysis on high settings (let alone maximum) in 2007?

The argument that "piracy is killing PC gaming" is absolutely trash. It is industry hoopla generated purposely in order to allow lazy development of games without adapting it specifically for the PC, all while the massively rich gaming mega-companies can play the "woe is me" victim card.

z0sa

10-22-2009, 02:21 PM

Did you not understand my argument? They are encouraging mainstream gaming in order to increase sales.

Half life 2 = huge franchise
The Sims = hugest franchise
WoW = huge franchise.

Additionally, the companies themselves get rich but the employees from middle management down (where all the actual work happens) are nowhere near it. When their games don't produce sales, they are the ones who feel the pressure, not the conglomerates. And even so, games are extremely expensive to make. It's a very difficult business to be profitable in, and even more difficult to break into independently. These huge companes owning all our developers are going to muddy the waters.

besides, you're stealing. Just balls up and say you don't mind stealing what the majority of people worked hard for and are not getting rich off.

DarkReign

10-22-2009, 02:27 PM

Maybe we've gotten to a point where the advances in technology aren't coming as often as they used to, but there's no question there was a time that you had to get a new video card every six to twelve months when the newest games came out.

I would say you do not. Now, there will always be bleeding edge games made (like Crysis) that push the upper limits of the newest techs.

But by and large, PC games are designed in two distinct ways:

1) Scalability - allows the engine to scale to whatever settings the user wants/needs
2) Modular - allows users to customize their play experience from small (interface changes to Oblivion) to huge (console commands).

So even a mid-range system (thats well under $600) can play everything new to almost max settings and should be good-to-go for at least 2 years with only a GPU upgrade needed after that 2 year period.

Cry Havoc

10-22-2009, 02:30 PM

Did you not understand my argument? They are encouraging mainstream gaming rather than

Half life 2 = huge franchise
The Sims = hugest franchise
WoW = huge franchise.

Okay, so what about Crytek? They were a nowhere company before releasing Far Cry. Now they're one of the major players and pioneering graphical advances that are pushing the limits of PCs like never before.

It's amazing that this discussion is even coming up in a Call of Duty thread. Considering that CoD would not even EXIST if PC gamers didn't go out and buy millions of copies of the game.

Blizzard is obviously huge now -- but how is that the case considering they are entirely a PC based gaming company? Yet the Starcraft/Warcraft/Diablo series has had incredibly good sales since they're inception.

Piracy is NOT a problem if you make games people want to play and pay money for.

Additionally, the companies themselves get rich but the employees from middle management down (where all the actual work happens) are nowhere near it. When their games don't produce sales, they are the ones who feel the pressure, not the conglomerates.

Gaming companies go out of business all the time. And guess what? Console-based companies fail too! The trickle-down effect can hardly be limited to -- or blamed on -- piracy.

DarkReign

10-22-2009, 02:31 PM

besides, you're stealing. Just balls up and say you don't mind stealing what the majority of people worked hard for and are not getting rich off.

Absolutely true. I have never pirated any game, music or piece of software.

Never will.

My rationale is, if you like something, why dont you support it by buying it? Why steal the newest White Stripes album, when you like the band?

Why steal the new CoD game when you know its going to rock?

Software like Photoshop.....meh, I dont care that people steal that shit. That doesnt bother me in the slightest....waaaaaaaay overpriced.

velik_m

10-22-2009, 02:34 PM

In the end PC will prevail. The open platform always wins.

Cry Havoc

10-22-2009, 08:28 PM

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=225744&site=pcg

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3176593

symple19

10-22-2009, 09:19 PM

In the end PC will prevail. The open platform always wins.

this

Plus, in Europe PC is pretty much the main thing going from my understanding. There are more and more badass production houses in Europe, especially in Eastern Europe and Russia. Even if they slow down making games stateside, the slack will be picked up elsewhere. This is fine with me, because some of the most interesting games are already coming out of that region anyway, like Cryostasis and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. I can't wait for Call of Pripyat.

The real future though, IMO, is in online MMO/MMOFPS with free-play and then paying for certain additional content. I'm playing the A.V.A. beta right now, and then you have Huxley coming out at some point also.

PC will be fine, and it will always pwn console.

mouse

10-23-2009, 05:03 AM

.
besides, you're stealing. Just balls up and say you don't mind stealing what the majority of people worked hard for and are not getting rich off.

How can you steal something if the original person stills has their copy? It's called borrowing. I suppose if I use my neighbors lawnmower Sears can say I'm stealing from them? You tree huggers have it all wrong.

leemajors

10-23-2009, 09:07 AM

Maybe we've gotten to a point where the advances in technology aren't coming as often as they used to, but there's no question there was a time that you had to get a new video card every six to twelve months when the newest games came out.

you could always get by by lowering picmip and other gfx settings, and only upgrade when absolutely necessary every other year.

leemajors

10-23-2009, 09:15 AM

This kind of stuff is why I am such a huge fan of Carmack, and Valve to a lesser extent. They realize and appreciate the contributions of the community to their games, and even absorb mods into permanent game modes. The Quake community produced the ctf mod, and iD ended up hiring Zoid (creator of CTF for Q1) to help with Quake 2 ctf, which was released after with a free patch. I had no problem buying games like that, because I knew they were made to be played for years and would keep growing and being developed. As much as I dislike CS, it started out as a Half Life mod, which used a heavily modified Q2 engine, and ended up being an officially supported and developed mod, even basically turning into its own game. Team Fortress was a great Quake 1 mod, later bought by Valve and bastardized into Team Fortress Classic (which I thought sucked), and then Team Fortress 2 came out and recaptured the spirit of the original. No mods = biting the hand that fed your industry for years, and although the original modding/PC gaming community is spread out over dozens of different games, they don't hesitate to band together and be very vocal about something like this. I have never even played Modern Warfare, and never plan on doing so, but this story really irritates me.

balli

10-23-2009, 09:34 AM

How can you steal something if the original person stills has their copy? It's called borrowing. I suppose if I use my neighbors lawnmower Sears can say I'm stealing from them? You tree huggers have it all wrong.
You're not stealing if you use your neighbors lawnmower, no, but if you invented some fabulous piece of techno-machinery that could make near-free replications of Black&Decker lawnmowers, you couldn't blame Sears for responding with some sort of draconian protectionism.

And I'm not saying that from some holier than thou perspective. I steal all sorts of media... its just, I do consider it stealing.

balli

10-23-2009, 09:43 AM

I have never even played Modern Warfare, and never plan on doing so, but this story really irritates me.
As far as I understand, its a bit of a misnomer to say mw2 won't be modable, etc. Almost nothing is known about IWNET, except that people won't be able to host on their privately rented or owned server space.

If someone's heard otherwise, I'm open to rebuttal, but it might could be and is somewhat plausible that iwnet will be very heavily influenced by the Steam/Valve model. MW might operate much like it did before, just through the iwnet client and iwnet servers. Then again, maybe not.

But anyways you're 100% right in saying Valve has proved that pc gaming and judicial developer oversight can co-exist; it might not be ideal and I'm not saying that's where iw is going, but IMO that scenario wouldn't be as bad a thing as the mw2 community's response would indicate.

DarkReign

10-23-2009, 10:37 AM

How can you steal something if the original person stills has their copy? It's called borrowing. I suppose if I use my neighbors lawnmower Sears can say I'm stealing from them? You tree huggers have it all wrong.

Thats the dumbest damn analogy I have heard since whottt.

When you borrow a lawnmower, there is only one lawnmower in existence. When you borrow it from your neighbor, he cannot cut his grass because you have it.

An IP is a copyrighted form of creative product. You steal it when you dont pay for it.

In the past, you could borrow a CD or cassette, then give it back.

But now you have torrent sites streaming artists, creators, developers, movie studios hard-work right to hard drives across the globe.

Its the "me! me!" mentality of this world. You dont deserve shit on a shingle. You want to see Transformers 2? Go fucking pay for it like every other human being.

Naw, just steal it. Just dont bitch about any misfortune's you may endure by way of theft. The more people steal from you, the more you'll understand what its like.

I dont what you do for a living, mouse, but IIRC you do repair some computer shit for peeps around ST. Furthermore, I *think* youre more of the bartering type than a strict pay service.

Well, lets pretend like you owned your own computer repair shop. You fixed peeps computers, then they refused to pay.

Thats what you are...the person not paying for someone else's work. Thats called being a thief, a goniff, a gypsy.

Hiding behind the internet and digital software doesnt change what youre doing. Downloading DragonAge from a torrent site is exactly like going to Best Buy and jocking the box.

velik_m

10-23-2009, 11:14 AM

As much as I dislike CS, it started out as a Half Life mod, which used a heavily modified Q2 engine

iirc Half-life was based on a heavily modified Quake1 engine.

velik_m

10-23-2009, 11:17 AM

You steal it when you dont pay for it.

The law disagrees. It's copyright infringment, not stealing.

Cry Havoc

10-23-2009, 11:25 AM

Thats what you are...the person not paying for someone else's work. Thats called being a thief, a goniff, a gypsy.

I agree with most of your post, however what if I have NO intentions to buy a game, because either there are better games out, or I just don't want to spend money on it?

In which case, the developer loses ZERO money, because I wouldn't have bought their game in the first place.

In ANY case, the measures being taken for Modern Warfare 2 will not prevent piracy -- and they were not designed to do so. Infinity Ward said as much. So the piracy argument is pointless here because IW didn't implement these new measures to stop piracy.

leemajors

10-23-2009, 11:35 AM

iirc Half-life was based on a heavily modified Quake1 engine.

doh, you're right. i always thought it looked more like q2 as far as engine/physics went.

Cry Havoc

10-23-2009, 12:00 PM

doh, you're right. i always thought it looked more like q2 as far as engine/physics went.

The point is that Counterstrike is unarguably one of the greatest and most influential First-Person Shooters of all time (Obligatory Kanye West reference). That game would never exist with this kind of stupidity. Taking away options that gamers want and can put to use is never a good thing.

DarkReign

10-23-2009, 12:39 PM

I agree with most of your post, however what if I have NO intentions to buy a game, because either there are better games out, or I just don't want to spend money on it?

In which case, the developer loses ZERO money, because I wouldn't have bought their game in the first place.

In ANY case, the measures being taken for Modern Warfare 2 will not prevent piracy -- and they were not designed to do so. Infinity Ward said as much. So the piracy argument is pointless here because IW didn't implement these new measures to stop piracy.

I wasnt referring to any particular game and the current methods used to prevent piracy are just plain stupid.

There will always be a market for pirated games. Doesnt matter the platform, there are plenty of 360 .iso files floating around the www and a step-by-step instruction for modding your box to play pirated software.

Sure, you cant play them online (I would think, dont know), but for most games like Uncharted 2, who gives a shit? Especially when its free.

Look, I dont care that people steal shit (copyright infringement...whatever, to me there is no difference between d/ling a pirated version and grabbing the box off a shelf from Best Buy).

But dont ever bitch about theft is all I am saying.

In which case, the developer loses ZERO money, because I wouldn't have bought their game in the first place.

Thats true, but what right do you have to play their product if you never had an intention to buy it?

Obviously, you have interest enough in it to d/l and play. But not enough to interest to buy, I guess.

Whatever, thats your prerogative (never can spell that word right). I honestly dont care that pirates exist and that people almost exclusively pirate games/movies/music.

I just say, dont ever pretend to be a fan of something you stole, be it music or otherwise. Because youre not helping what you claim to be a fan of, youre contributing to its decline.

Really, I am done with this conversation. Believe it or not, it isnt something I feel strongly about one way or the other. But what I do feel strongly about is a pirate's opinion about the products they "sample" in that I dont put much weight behind any complaints they may have because theyre not a paying customer, therefore any legimate concerns they raise are completely invalidated by their rationalized view of their activities.

Cry Havoc

10-23-2009, 12:44 PM

I wasnt referring to any particular game and the current methods used to prevent piracy are just plain stupid.

There will always be a market for pirated games. Doesnt matter the platform, there are plenty of 360 .iso files floating around the www and a step-by-step instruction for modding your box to play pirated software.

Sure, you cant play them online (I would think, dont know), but for most games like Uncharted 2, who gives a shit? Especially when its free.

Look, I dont care that people steal shit (copyright infringement...whatever, to me there is no difference between d/ling a pirated version and grabbing the box off a shelf from Best Buy).

But dont ever bitch about theft is all I am saying.

Thats true, but what right do you have to play their product if you never had an intention to buy it?

Obviously, you have interest enough in it to d/l and play. But not enough to interest to buy, I guess.

Whatever, thats your prerogative (never can spell that word right). I honestly dont care that pirates exist and that people almost exclusively pirate games/movies/music.

I just say, dont ever pretend to be a fan of something you stole, be it music or otherwise. Because youre not helping what you claim to be a fan of, youre contributing to its decline.

Really, I am done with this conversation. Believe it or not, it isnt something I feel strongly about one way or the other. But what I do feel strongly about is a pirate's opinion about the products they "sample" in that I dont put much weight behind any complaints they may have because theyre not a paying customer, therefore any legimate concerns they raise are completely invalidated by their rationalized view of their activities.

Oh, I completely agree. I would NEVER complain about a game I download for free (although I'm definitely thinking about not paying for MW2, but then again I don't even know if I want to play it either). I think I've done a total of four times. F.E.A.R. (which I beat last night, AMAZING ENDING) because my ex g/f took a bunch of game discs from me when we broke up and that happened to be one of them, I did pay for it though. Another with X-com UFO Defense because I bought the game online and it wouldn't run on my computer. And yes, I've downloaded a few games... definitely not more than 5 or 6. But 99% of the games I've owned I've either won (heh) or paid for in full price. I have probably owned over ~750+ titles during my lifetime, which probably puts me into the very top % of gamers. I used to have an entire RACK of Nintendo/SNES/Genesis games that went to my ceiling and was 3 deep. Crazy.

At the same time, there is simply no way to afford every game being made today -- heck, it's impossible to afford even just the fantastic titles. Put a game out that's AWESOME and innovative and I guarantee I will put up my money for it, and never give pirating a though. C'est la vie.

leemajors

10-23-2009, 02:01 PM

The point is that Counterstrike is unarguably one of the greatest and most influential First-Person Shooters of all time (Obligatory Kanye West reference). That game would never exist with this kind of stupidity. Taking away options that gamers want and can put to use is never a good thing.

That's pretty much what i said.

mouse

10-23-2009, 03:55 PM

Thats the dumbest damn analogy I have heard since whottt.

When you borrow a lawnmower, there is only one lawnmower in existence. When you borrow it from your neighbor, he cannot cut his grass because you have it.

An IP is a copyrighted form of creative product. You steal it when you dont pay for it.

In the past, you could borrow a CD or cassette, then give it back.

But now you have torrent sites streaming artists, creators, developers, movie studios hard-work right to hard drives across the globe.

Its the "me! me!" mentality of this world. You dont deserve shit on a shingle. You want to see Transformers 2? Go fucking pay for it like every other human being.

Naw, just steal it. Just dont bitch about any misfortune's you may endure by way of theft. The more people steal from you, the more you'll understand what its like.

I dont what you do for a living, mouse, but IIRC you do repair some computer shit for peeps around ST. Furthermore, I *think* youre more of the bartering type than a strict pay service.

Well, lets pretend like you owned your own computer repair shop. You fixed peeps computers, then they refused to pay.

Thats what you are...the person not paying for someone else's work. Thats called being a thief, a goniff, a gypsy.

Hiding behind the internet and digital software doesnt change what youre doing. Downloading DragonAge from a torrent site is exactly like going to Best Buy and jocking the box.

Sorry but you took the long way around the barn to make your point.

Well, lets pretend like you owned your own computer repair shop. You fixed peeps computers, then they refused to pay.

How can you compare duplicating a plastic disc to fixing a PC? If the makers of the game came to my house and installed the game and I didn't pay them then I stole from them. They took their time and hard work and did not get paid.

But if someone happens to look over my shoulder as i fix a PC and learns how to fix their own PC, how is that stealing? Your assuming that 50% of all the people who "Borrow" the games on line were going to purchased them in the first place.

Your like those tree huggers who make those silly commercials you see before you view a DVD from blockbuster, they show some guy breaking into a car to steal the radio. How is making a copy of a DVD stealing it Your taking back the original DVD to blockbuster?
It's like saying a man opens your car takes your CD player then goes home copies your CD player and puts your cd player back in your car. How are you going to make a police report if your CD player is still in your car?

Where will this shit end?
next you people will be suing anyone who happens to be singing a U2 song at the bus stop. "hey you! stop singing that song you don't have permission!"

Sorry brah you can spend the rest of your life trying to prove to me what your definition of stealing is but at the end of the day if the product is still in the hands of the original owner you have no case and I am sure if you call the police to tell them your neighbor saw how your wife made her famous apple pie and is making pies at home and you want to press charges they will laugh at you. And there are millions of users at the the torrent sites right now that will join in on the laughter.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/game.jpg

velik_m

10-24-2009, 01:02 AM

Where will this shit end?
next you people will be suing anyone who happens to be singing a U2 song at the bus stop. "hey you! stop singing that song you don't have permission!"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/tayside_and_central/8317952.stm

mouse

10-24-2009, 04:20 PM

^ great research! :tu

I was going to read DarkReign's postings to my friends but I may be breaking some sort of copyrighted issues.

AussieFanKurt

10-24-2009, 04:51 PM

Its the "me! me!" mentality of this world. You dont deserve shit on a shingle. You want to see Transformers 2? Go fucking pay for it like every other human being.

Naw, just steal it. Just dont bitch about any misfortune's you may endure by way of theft. The more people steal from you, the more you'll understand what its like.

When music, movies and whatever else is stolen, there is really hardly a change at the moment. I mean how many times do you think Britney Spear's song '3' has been downloaded and yet shes still bringing in the cash. Same with film as well. New Moon will be downloaded on a freakish scale but it is still going to make a fuck load

mouse

10-24-2009, 05:18 PM

One day we will be charged if we think to much.

balli

10-24-2009, 06:11 PM

Mouse. You make artwork right? You paint?

Why don't you send me a bunch of your paintings? You'll get them back, I'd just like to borrow them so I can make a bunch of full size prints at Kinkos. I plan on selling them for a hefty price at next year's SLC Art Fest. Thanks for doing all the real work for me. :tu

mouse

10-24-2009, 09:51 PM

Mouse. You make artwork right? You paint?

Why don't you send me a bunch of your paintings?

Sure!

You'll get them back,

This will be the quote that makes the difference later...

I'd just like to borrow them so I can make a bunch of full size prints at Kinkos.

Knock yourself out!

I plan on selling them for a hefty price at next year's SLC Art Fest.

here is where your wrong. No one in this topic said we would copy games or movies and sell them. That would be taking money from someone else's hard work. You need to figure out the difference from stealing and borrowing.

You'll get them back,

You see the difference? I get back my originals no one wants copies they want original art.find another example.

Thanks for doing all the real work for me. :tu

Your welcome thank you for promoting my art. I'm sure you will have to give them my phone number or email if they want the original and with my signature? I think your a little off on your interpretation of this topic but I give you an E for effort! :tu

Or maybe they are cheap flea market shoppers that want to pay only 10 dollars for a copy of art work? go right ahead and keep it since it cost you 19.00 dollars to 29.00 dollars just to make a 15 x 30 print. you just lost 9.00 dollars :lmao