Don't tell me Matt Bonner is starting C again

[VivaPopovich]

F*** that s***!

I don't care how many 3's he makes, THAT'S NOT SPURS BASKETBALL AND IT'S NOT GOING TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP

WE NOW HAVE MAHINMI, BLAIR, RATLIFF, MCDYESS AND MATT BONNER IS GOING TO START?

So much for doomsday defense military Pop. If he starts Bonner all year long and they dont win a ring he really does deserve to get fired. A position once dominated by David Robinson, something that stood for getting rebounds, blocking shots, and showing toughness in the paint has been replaced by some weak POS that doesn't do much but shoot kickout jumpers

at that spot we're going to have to D up on the likes of Bynum/Gasol, Rasheed/KG, Shaq, Dwight and Matt f***** Bonner is our starting center. great.

[NASpurs]

How cute.

Sequ has another screen name.

[My Fault]

Ok we won't tell ya... However your gonna be in for quite the shock

[Leetonidas]

Jesus Christ quit whining. It doesn't matter who starts, only who is closing out games. And we know it's not gonna be Bonner.

[bless1187]

yeah, unfortunately it seems that Pop still has a big role in mind for M. Bonner; and it looks like he might even be our starting C once again come regular season. i'm not against starting M. Finley over R. Mason, since i'm one of the few on the forum that think M. Finley contributes more than R. Mason.

i really hope that Pop wakes up since i would rather start either A. McDyess or D. Blair rather than M. Bonner.

[NASpurs]

Personally I could care less if Bonner starts right now or even four weeks into the season. We all know it takes time for players to become knowledgeable over the Spurs' system. Finley and Bonner have been here the longest I guess so that's why they're starting. Three or four months into the season (or sooner) when the other players know what Pop wants out of them, they'll move both of the aforementioned players back to the bench where they belong.

[ooshmay]

Jesus Christ quit whining. It doesn't matter who starts, only who is closing out games. And we know it's not gonna be Bonner.


So true... Besides Bonner for the time he does play spreads the court for Timmy. Ur center has to mark him at the 3 point line, leaving Tim with a 1 on 1..

[duncan228]

Given it was the first game Popovich went with some semblance of a plausible rotation, he was pleased with what he saw in his veterans.

“It was good for them,” Popovich said. “They needed to see what it was like to play with each other, and adjust to each other. It takes a while to put that together.”

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137147

[TDMVPDPOY]

bonner and ian have no business being on the spurs roster

time to put the rabbit back in the hat pop

[TJastal]

Jesus Christ quit whining. It doesn't matter who starts, only who is closing out games. And we know it's not gonna be Bonner.

I disagree with your opinion.

I think it does matter who starts. You want your starting 5 to forge your team's identity and set the tone that will permeate for the rest of the game.

If Popovich wants to forge a defensive tone for the rest of the game he will not start Matt Bonner. It's that simple.

[Mel_13]

I disagree with your opinion.

I think it does matter who starts. You want your starting 5 to forge your team's identity and set the tone that will permeate for the rest of the game.

If Popovich wants to forge a defensive tone for the rest of the game he will not start Matt Bonner. It's that simple.

No, it's not.

[DJB]

F*** that s***!

I don't care how many 3's he makes, THAT'S NOT SPURS BASKETBALL AND IT'S NOT GOING TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP

WE NOW HAVE MAHINMI, BLAIR, RATLIFF, MCDYESS AND MATT BONNER IS GOING TO START?

So much for doomsday defense military Pop. If he starts Bonner all year long and they dont win a ring he really does deserve to get fired. A position once dominated by David Robinson, something that stood for getting rebounds, blocking shots, and showing toughness in the paint has been replaced by some weak POS that doesn't do much but shoot kickout jumpers

at that spot we're going to have to D up on the likes of Bynum/Gasol, Rasheed/KG, Shaq, Dwight and Matt f***** Bonner is our starting center. great.

Amen. :bang

[Em-City]

I don't have a problem with Bonner..

My issue is when bonner and finley are on the court at the same time

[sabar]

It doesn't matter who starts. What matters is how many minutes the guy gets and if those minutes are cutting into someone else's. Same deal with Finley.

[Leetonidas]

I disagree with your opinion.

I think it does matter who starts. You want your starting 5 to forge your team's identity and set the tone that will permeate for the rest of the game.

If Popovich wants to forge a defensive tone for the rest of the game he will not start Matt Bonner. It's that simple.

The Spurs can get stops when it counts. Often times there offense is what lags in the beginning of games and it takes them awhile to get going. If you have your team's best 3 point shooter out there next to Duncan it's going to open up the floor and make things easier in the beginning to get the offense flowing. So, I disagree with you still. It's more important to get the offense going early and the defense will follow.

[Juanobili]

The dude blocked Shaq. Nuff said.

[EricB]

oh noes, preseason lineup!!!!

[TJastal]

The Spurs can get stops when it counts. Often times there offense is what lags in the beginning of games and it takes them awhile to get going. If you have your team's best 3 point shooter out there next to Duncan it's going to open up the floor and make things easier in the beginning to get the offense flowing. So, I disagree with you still. It's more important to get the offense going early and the defense will follow.

And how did this strategy work last year, when it counts? This strategy only works well if Bonner is shooting extremely well. With Bonner out there, the spurs are losing alot of defense & rebounding. Once Bonner goes cold as he did in the latter half of the season and into the playoffs this strategy backfires.

And with Richard Jefferson in the fold now, the spurs shouldn't have as much problem getting the offense goin. Furthurmore, McDyess is no slouch on offense. He can also space the floor his deadly 15-20 foot jumpers. It's a total waste of his talent to sign and pay the more versatile McDyess 6 million a year to play spotty minutes off the bench.

[Mel_13]

And how did this strategy work last year, when it counts? This strategy only works well if Bonner is shooting extremely well. With Bonner out there, the spurs are losing alot of defense & rebounding. Once Bonner goes cold as he did in the latter half of the season and into the playoffs this strategy backfires.

And with Richard Jefferson in the fold now, the spurs shouldn't have as much problem getting the offense goin. Furthurmore, McDyess is no slouch on offense. He can also space the floor his deadly 15-20 foot jumpers. It's a total waste of his talent to sign and pay the more versatile McDyess 6 million a year to play spotty minutes off the bench.

It certainly would be, except it won't happen. Barring injuries, McDyess will play more minutes than any big except Duncan.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Can't wait for the actual meltdowns, it'll be epic this year.

[bless1187]

i really thought there were time last year where the backup bigs were playing better than M. Bonner and deserved to start but didn't... i thought D. Gooden did outplay M. Bonner the majority of the time he was here, but was still playing only around 15 mpg while M. Bonner was getting close to 30.

[Sean Cagney]

The dude blocked Shaq. Nuff said.

a very old slow Shaq, which is probably all he can block at Center sides Big Z on that same team. Bonner can't block anyone but himself on most days, he is a horrible C starting in this league and can't play D at all. If heads want to point out a block on Shaq to prove he improved then so be it, but he sucks.

[Zzakk's Garage]

I think Pop is going for a 2nd team that absolutely dominates this year, and that plan means Bonner should start. Spread the floor to let Tim go to work while getting a feel for what's needed--see who's hurting us on the other team.
It was effective for a long time.
We did pretty well last year during the regular season with Matt starting--it was the 2nd string that bit the big one without a confident & experienced PG or effective bigs bringing O & D.
No Manu, PG experiments, not deep at all...
With the new guys, there are SO many more options that can come onto the court after the 1st horn that this anti-Bonner hatred just makes no sense to me.

FabO's heart problem hurt us for a few games--KT would get in foul trouble and TD21 would have to go back in too early...remember?
The lack of bigs?
Bonner would've played a LOT less minutes last season if we had anyone else to take up the slack.
Now we do.


Starting means nothing.
Just ask Manu about that.

Matt Bonner can start every single regular season game for all I care.
The Win/Loss numbers are all that matter, and right now we stand at 0/0.

[AussieFanKurt]

The dude blocked Shaq. Nuff said.

:lol:toast

[angelbelow]

:lol

He also started Finley, you should quit watching basketball before Pop brings back JV, don't want you to get too stressed and commit suicide.

[greyforest]

So true... Besides Bonner for the time he does play spreads the court for Timmy. Ur center has to mark him at the 3 point line, leaving Tim with a 1 on 1..

this is an interesting take, although he is still a defensive liability and gets no rebounds.

blocking shaq one time doesn't undo what ive seen in the past

[symple19]

If he does start when the season begins, I won't start bitching until I've had a chance to see Pops rotation. Bonner may start, play 4 mins or so and then sit until situations where his shooting is needed or the lane needs to be kept clear for someone else.

I honestly expect to see McDyess and Blair get way more minutes as the season wears on

[VivaPopovich]

So true... Besides Bonner for the time he does play spreads the court for Timmy. Ur center has to mark him at the 3 point line, leaving Tim with a 1 on 1..


I think Pop is going for a 2nd team that absolutely dominates this year, and that plan means Bonner should start. Spread the floor to let Tim go to work while getting a feel for what's needed--see who's hurting us on the other team.
It was effective for a long time.
We did pretty well last year during the regular season with Matt starting--it was the 2nd string that bit the big one without a confident & experienced PG or effective bigs bringing O & D.
No Manu, PG experiments, not deep at all...
With the new guys, there are SO many more options that can come onto the court after the 1st horn that this anti-Bonner hatred just makes no sense to me.

FabO's heart problem hurt us for a few games--KT would get in foul trouble and TD21 would have to go back in too early...remember?
The lack of bigs?
Bonner would've played a LOT less minutes last season if we had anyone else to take up the slack.
Now we do.


Starting means nothing.
Just ask Manu about that.

Matt Bonner can start every single regular season game for all I care.
The Win/Loss numbers are all that matter, and right now we stand at 0/0.

Who were the starting centers when the Spurs won championships? David Robinson, David Robinson, Nazr Mohammed, Fabricio Oberto. Now we all of a sudden need a center that hits 3s to win championships?

And if anyone in here thinks that a center should be nowhere near the paint when Duncan goes to work knows nothing about basketball. We are going to need McDyess and Blair to be in the paint when Duncan goes to work to grab rebounds and put the shot back up. Worked with DRob/Rodman, worked with the twin towers.

I've played basketball my entire life and rebounds wins games, rebounds wins championships. this has and always will be true.


Just don't kiss Bonner's ass midseason again like last year when he's shooting 50% from 3.

Don't worry, I won't, and you hold me to it. If they win a ring this yr with Bonner starting that doesn't make it right! Cause the end result isn't the only thing that matters, it's also how you get there. A Pf/C are suppose to grab rebounds, block shots, and D up on other bigs, I don't care how many 3s he hits, I'll kiss his ass when I see him playing like a real center. Only Laker fans care about short term gains over long-term results.

[VivaPopovich]

:lol

He also started Finley, you should quit watching basketball before Pop brings back JV, don't want you to get too stressed and commit suicide.

See, the difference between me and you is that I play basketball in addition to watching basketball and I understand how important rebounding bigs are, cause I've been there and done that, and I know that it takes a lot of lower body strength to work your way in the post, box out for rebounds on both ends, and man up on other bigs.

Finley at SF/SG is not nearly as bad as Bonner at C

In addition to rebounds and shotblocking, strong bigs are just as much about a forceful psychological presence, like Ben/Rasheed in their prime, the bad boy pistons, Dennis Rodman. You want to send a message to the goliaths on the other teams that you're not going to be pushed around, that their going to work for all those points.

There's something very dominant, physically and psychologically about being able to box a big man out. It's very intimidating and Matt Bonner isn't going to intimidate anyone on defense. And if you want a dynasty, it's important to have that intimidation factor, it's important to have strong bigs. Just ask Pau Gasol when KG MANHANDLED him in the Finals.

[Muser]

Don't worry, I won't, and you hold me to it. If they win a ring this yr with Bonner starting that doesn't make it right! Cause the end result isn't the only thing that matters, it's also how you get there.

The most retarded post i've ever read.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

If they win a ring this yr with Bonner starting that doesn't make it right!

So if we don't win that proves you right, but if we win, that still doesn't prove you wrong because you say so :lol

Bonner is not a C.

It doesn't matter at all who starts.

Deal with it.

God it's full of whiny girls around, and it's only going to get worse when the actual games start.

[benefactor]

http://rlv.zcache.com/lemmings_print-p228187014237952629vsu7_325.jpg

[VivaPopovich]

If they win a ring this yr with Bonner starting that doesn't make it right!


The most retarded post i've ever read.


So if we don't win that proves you right, but if we win, that still doesn't prove you wrong because you say so :lol

Bonner is not a C.

It doesn't matter at all who starts.

Deal with it.

God it's full of whiny girls around, and it's only going to get worse when the actual games start.

Well.. maybe that did go overboard. Bonner knocking 3's in the season isn't going to change my mind is what I was trying to say. Not as starting PF/C anyways. But I am seriously willing to bet a lot of money to any takers that the Spurs won't win a ring with Bonner averaging 30 minutes a game as PF/C in the playoffs and nba finals, starting or not.

A lot of you are making valid points about starting being irrelevant if he's not getting PT. And I hope to God you guys are right. The reason why I'm so mad about this is because I want us to win a championship so badly. It's not my intention to put down any of our players.

And quit whining over the whining. It really wasn't that long ago that we got stomped by Dallas, and he was a major reason why.

You people are acting like we made it to the conference finals and lost in a 7 game series and we have no right to criticize him. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but that's not what happened. We got knocked off in the first round and he just sat there in the bench hopelessly watching. In all the years I've been watching Spurs basketball (which goes back to Rodman and Del Negro) I have NEVER seen us lose a playoff series the way that we did against Dallas. I don't ever want to see that again. Can you blame me?

By the way muser: unfortunately there are probably worse posts out there, by people that aren't retracting it either :lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It really wasn't that long ago that we got stomped by Dallas, and he was a major reason why.


Bonner wasn't a major reason why we lost. While it's true he was awful, along with many others, our loss has nothing to do with him. We lost because our team was lacking quality in many important areas, we lost because Dallas was a bad matchup, we lost because Manu was out, we lost because Duncan wasn't healthy and was throwing the ball to the guards when guarded by Ryan freakin Hollins 1 on 1.We lost because literally none of the role players stepped up, only one of which was Bonner. This puts his contributuin to the loss deep down the pecking order. He could of played the way he played against Boston in the reg season all games against Dallas, and we still wouldn't stand a chance.

Bonner will provide valuable minutes during the season and , hopefully, in the playoffs, he'll help the new guys' transition, allow them a bigger and longer learning curve, especially Mahinmi and Blair, as well as allowing Duncan's and Dyess's minutes to be held in check.No one is expecting him to be a major contributor, but if he plays the same way he did last reg season, albeit in hopefully a bit less minutes, he'd be a huge help to the team.

[VivaPopovich]

Bonner wasn't a major reason why we lost. While it's true he was awful, along with many others, our loss has nothing to do with him. We lost because our team was lacking quality in many important areas, we lost because Dallas was a bad matchup, we lost because Manu was out, we lost because Duncan wasn't healthy and was throwing the ball to the guards when guarded by Ryan freakin Hollins 1 on 1.We lost because literally none of the role players stepped up, only one of which was Bonner. This puts his contributuin to the loss deep down the pecking order. He could of played the way he played against Boston in the reg season all games against Dallas, and we still wouldn't stand a chance.

Bonner will provide valuable minutes during the season and , hopefully, in the playoffs, he'll help the new guys' transition, allow them a bigger and longer learning curve, especially Mahinmi and Blair, as well as allowing Duncan's and Dyess's minutes to be held in check.No one is expecting him to be a major contributor, but if he plays the same way he did last reg season, albeit in hopefully a bit less minutes, he'd be a huge help to the team.

That was very well-said.

I do want him to succeed, I hope it works out. I feel like I was the only person that noticed this, but when he drove inside and created his own shot he was actually pretty decent. His running jumper is pretty decent. But if he mans the post I do hope he at least puts in an effort to getting stronger the way Pau did after KG handled him.

I can't wait for the season to start, can't wait for Blair to grab some rebounds. Don't remember being this excited to watch rebounds since Rodman, and maybe a flash of it last season with Pops Mensa Bonsu against Cleveland :lol

[Spursmania]

Just don't kiss Bonner's ass midseason again like last year when he's shooting 50% from 3.

Bonner's regular season's game means nothing if he plays the post season like he did last year.

[Xevious]

As others have said, Bonner is a nice situational role player to have on your team. But I agree that starting him was one of our problems last year and there's no need to repeat that with our newly added depth. Mcdyess can spread the floor just as well with his mid-range and still body up on big men and rebound much better than Bonner.

Bonner is kind of fragile though. Take away his minutes and his 3P% may drop, making him worthless.

[Spurs Brazil]

I really hope Bonner will not be in in the starting lineup in a week.
I'm fine with him playing 15 minutes of the bench but start him will be a mistake

[ElNono]

This is what our starting lineup interior defense looks like right now:

http://i35.tinypic.com/315k901.png

What's fool's gold is to only see what they guy can give you on offense and completely ignore what he gives away on the other end. Even on a hot streaky shooting night like last night he put up 9 points, so it's not that he's really being a difference maker on offense either.
But my biggest beef with the guy is his lack of rebounding. If the idea is to help TD be fresh and cut some slack to his knees, then grabbing two boards is simply unacceptable. Dice had 7. Blair had 10. TD had 10.
As far as starting him, well, my problem is when you play both him and Finley. If they're not hot (unlike last night), you're simply giving up way too much on the defensive end.

The good news is: Last season, outside of Hill, Pop didn't have many alternatives when our D was leaking like a sieve. This season he can turn around and call up a few guys. So I hope that over time he'll see he's got better options now.

[Whisky Dog]

That seems weird as fuck to see the Spurs playing on the 'Horns court.

It does matter who starts a game. The beginning of a game sets a tempo that paces the game. If you're giving up a ton of points early cause you're starting inferior players that could put you in a hole and set a bad pace for the game. Sure you can overcome it later, but why put yourself in that position?

I'll care once the season starts... In preseason I don't care who he starts.

[Phenomanul]

People are grossly exaggerating the issue... Bonner was not single-handedly responsible for last year's post-season disappointment.

Manu didn't play at all... (~60% of the reason why the Spurs didn't even have a chance)
Tendonosis rendered Duncan at ~65-70% of his ability...
George Hill did not play enough...
and consequently, Roger Mason was forced into playing out of position at PG...
Bowen didn't play enough...
Lack of quality depth...

Whether Bonner starts this year is irrelevant because this year the Spurs have quality depth... His knowledge of the Spur's system, and his range however, allow Duncan more space on the offensive end, thus making him a valuable weapon to the Spur's playbook.

As for the notion that Bonner is a turnstile on defense, this is simply not true... Bonner led all Spurs last year in +/- (which I know isn't the catch-all statistic... but does soundly refute the claim that the Spurs lost leads or were scored on at will when Bonner was in the game). Besides, having RJ around should also help mask Bonner's rebounding deficiencies considering he is a much better rebounder than Bowen ever was.

Pop is also going to tinker with line ups depending on the match-ups... meaning that teams inclined to clog the paint will see alot of Bonner, while athletic, perimeter oriented teams might see less of him.

Having said that, Bonner will not start after the all-star break nor will he average more than 20 mpg for the season. Pop has options this year unlike last year (the part that the haters don't seem to grasp).

[SA210]

I don't know who's gonna start but I still wanted to post this.

:pop::pctoss

[all_heart]

I don't like the idea of Bonner starting either. Yea, he supposedly stretches the floor for Dunan, but I honestly couldn't tell last year. I suppose if he shoots over 50% from 3, that should work, but I'm skeptical. I don't think just putting your arms up qualifies as playing good D. I hope you guys are right in saying that he won't get much minutes this year. I guess the upside is that it saves wear and tear on Dyess and Theo come playoff time. What about starting Ian as C? It seems to me that he has a mental block when playing outside the D league. Baptism by fire?! :lol

[Solid D]

Matt Bonner didn't start at Center last night, nor does he ever start at Center. Tim does. Forget what the Public Address person says during introductions. Tim is the Center. Matt is in there for offensive reasons, to spread the floor. When he gets matched up against Jeff Green, who was the starting 4-man last night, Matt gets schooled defensively.

The killer lineup last night was Dice, Blair, Jefferson, Ginobili and Hill. That group looked great defensively, also.

[thispego]

I think Pop is going for a 2nd team that absolutely dominates this year, and that plan means Bonner should start. Spread the floor to let Tim go to work while getting a feel for what's needed--see who's hurting us on the other team.
It was effective for a long time.
We did pretty well last year during the regular season with Matt starting--it was the 2nd string that bit the big one without a confident & experienced PG or effective bigs bringing O & D.
No Manu, PG experiments, not deep at all...
With the new guys, there are SO many more options that can come onto the court after the 1st horn that this anti-Bonner hatred just makes no sense to me.

FabO's heart problem hurt us for a few games--KT would get in foul trouble and TD21 would have to go back in too early...remember?
The lack of bigs?
Bonner would've played a LOT less minutes last season if we had anyone else to take up the slack.
Now we do.


Starting means nothing.
Just ask Manu about that.

Matt Bonner can start every single regular season game for all I care.
The Win/Loss numbers are all that matter, and right now we stand at 0/0.

this guy just boned all you bonner haters' mothers right in front of you :lmao

[thispego]

If they win a ring this yr with Bonner starting that doesn't make it right! .

:lmao what a dumbass you are

[peskypesky]

Who were the starting centers when the Spurs won championships? David Robinson, David Robinson, Nazr Mohammed, Fabricio Oberto. Now we all of a sudden need a center that hits 3s to win championships?


You got that fucking right!! Has there EVER been a championship team with a 3-shooting Center? Ever?

Fuck that. Fuck Bonner. Fuck Pop for playing Bonner.

I hope to God that Blair breaks Bonner in half in practice and puts him out for the season.

:pop::pctoss

[Mel_13]

You got that fucking right!! Has there EVER been a championship team with a 3-shooting Center? Ever?


2004 Pistons
2005 Spurs

[tlongIII]

He's the only Spur I like.

[SequSpur]

Matt Bonner didn't start at Center last night, nor does he ever start at Center. Tim does. Forget what the Public Address person says during introductions. Tim is the Center. Matt is in there for offensive reasons, to spread the floor. When he gets matched up against Jeff Green, who was the starting 4-man last night, Matt gets schooled defensively.

The killer lineup last night was Dice, Blair, Jefferson, Ginobili and Hill. That group looked great defensively, also.

When are you going to quit being a pompous ass? Bonner was the starting center... Matt is in there because Pop is addicted to him. He should've been traded or let go.

Listen to the posters here, Matt Bonner doesn't spread shit. Nor is he a threat to anything. He is a damn joke.

Quit being a dick...

[Chomag]

You got that fucking right!! Has there EVER been a championship team with a 3-shooting Center? Ever?

Fuck that. Fuck Bonner. Fuck Pop for playing Bonner.

I hope to God that Blair breaks Bonner in half in practice and puts him out for the season.

:pop::pctoss

I agree as well. Robert Hory has been the only 3pt shooting big in history that I can think of but even he was not just a 3pt shooter if anyone fallowed his game he did so many things. IT seems ever since Robert it's stuck in Pop's head that he needs a 3pt shooting big, but the sad part is "there will never be a player like Robert Horry"

The game is played with 5 players on the court with each his roll. All teams need their bigs playing there roll of enforcer to be in there muscling in for rebounds, defending the paint, and posting up. There are 3 other positions out there where the 3pts can come from.

It's like with Tim. He freaking won the spurs 3pt contest lol. However you don't see him jacking up 3's in game do you. IT's because he knows his roll and he knows that there are a reason why he has forwards and guards out there.

[rascal]

It doesn't matter who starts. What matters is how many minutes the guy gets and if those minutes are cutting into someone else's. Same deal with Finley.

If he starts he will be getting too many minutes. Bonner should be nothing more than an end of the bench fill in now.

[yavozerb]

As much as some of you hate, this could our starting lineup:
TP-Finley-RJ-TD-Bonner
Hill-Mason-Manu-Blair-Mcdyess (2nd unit)

TP-manu-RJ-TD-Mcdyess (to end the game)...

Not a bad idea to keep your starters fresh cause this 2nd unit is pretty damn good

[Solid D]

Sequ, I'm just being truthful, my friend. Bonner is an option. That's all I'm saying. He is a defensive rag-doll but he can pull an opposing big away from the paint on offense. He's an option during the course of a game. McDyess and Blair are better players than Matt, no doubt. As Brent Barry said in the Spurs' special on nbatv, Timmy hasn't had a "4-man" running alongside him with the offensive abilities of McDyess. As Brent knows, Timmy has been playing Center, not Matt Bonner.

[all_heart]

2004 Pistons
2005 Spurs

Sheed doesn't plant his ass on the 3 pt line as much as Bonner does and Nazr doesn't count!:lol

[Morg1411]

:cry:cry:cry

[Spursfan 87]

Bonner is going to start, at least early on. He's been shooting lights out in the preseason so you got to go with the hot hand. Also Mcdyess is not yet in game shape, but he is going to get there and he eventually is going to be the starter.

Im more worried about Blair, he was not in the primary rotation last night, I think that pop might give the G.Hill treatment.

[Mel_13]

Sheed doesn't plant his ass on the 3 pt line as much as Bonner does and Nazr doesn't count!:lol

Sheed and Horry.

They were both centers to a greater extent than Bonner ever was.

This whole debate is silly.

Bonner is the 3rd or 4th best big currently on the roster. Over the course of the year, he'll play 15-20 mpg because someone has to play those minutes. Unless Mahinmi or Haislip proves they are good enough, that's just the way it is. And don't point to Ratliff unless you've checked out how much he has played in recent years. At best, he plays in 40-50 games as a situational big.

With Duncan and McDyess having their minutes limited and scheduled days off, Ratliff's recent history, Mahinmi and Haislip being totally unproven at the NBA level, and Blair never having played more than 37 games in a season, a proven NBA player who can be relied upon to play every game for 15-20 minutes has value. That is, until someone else emerges or a trade is made.

I'll leave it to Pop to figure out the best way to deploy various combinations of Duncan, McDyess, Bonner, and Blair over the course of the regular season. Quite frankly, I don't understand the gnashing of teeth over Bonner getting his minutes to start the first and 3rd quarters as opposed to bridging the 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th.

If he starts playing 30mpg or closing out the final minutes of close games, I'll get concerned. Not until then.

[Parker2112]

Actually (and I hate Bonner's uninspired D as much as the next guy), I would much rather have Bonner letting it fly early on...he's been known to get hot and help us break out into an early lead a time or two. I think his confidence is up this year, obviously, and I think he might be able to help us early (when we don't need stops).

BUT MORE IMPORTANT...I don't want to have to rely on his D late (obviously) because he can't slow down anyone in the league. What's more, improved confidence or not, Matt has not shown to be a reliable shooter in the clutch. So I see how it might be best take let him take a few shots early, rack up 5-10 points over 15 minutes in in the first half and leave it at that.

(Then again, if we get on offer for his services, let's take it quick.:lol)

[angelbelow]

See, the difference between me and you is that I play basketball in addition to watching basketball and I understand how important rebounding bigs are, cause I've been there and done that, and I know that it takes a lot of lower body strength to work your way in the post, box out for rebounds on both ends, and man up on other bigs.

Finley at SF/SG is not nearly as bad as Bonner at C

In addition to rebounds and shotblocking, strong bigs are just as much about a forceful psychological presence, like Ben/Rasheed in their prime, the bad boy pistons, Dennis Rodman. You want to send a message to the goliaths on the other teams that you're not going to be pushed around, that their going to work for all those points.

There's something very dominant, physically and psychologically about being able to box a big man out. It's very intimidating and Matt Bonner isn't going to intimidate anyone on defense. And if you want a dynasty, it's important to have that intimidation factor, it's important to have strong bigs. Just ask Pau Gasol when KG MANHANDLED him in the Finals.

Haha, wake me up when Bonner starts AND plays 40+ minutes. And Blair, Dice, Theo are put into Pop's dog house for no reason. Then we'll talk and jump together.

[narmerguy]

The problem with him starting is that it makes timmy work too hard on defense early in the game, tiring him out. Put him in when everyone else is tired too.

[portnoy1]

So true... Besides Bonner for the time he does play spreads the court for Timmy. Ur center has to mark him at the 3 point line, leaving Tim with a 1 on 1..
It might leave Tim in a 1 on 1 situation, but it limits offensive Rebounds. When Oberto was with the spurs he got layups cause he would move without the ball around the paint area and would get passes from Duncan. He also was able to get O boards. Bonner has some trouble getting rebounds on the offensive and Defensive end. Everyone keeps saying that its ok for him to start as long as he doesnt finish. Thats nonsense. If he starts the First 6-8 minutes we'll have 1 of 2 results. 1 - He makes 3's and opens up the floor. 2 - He doesn't hit any shots and all his faults come to light since he can only shoot. That means that in the 1st quarter we'll find the spurs down 8-10 pts getting outrebounded and swallowing a whole bunch of points in the paint from the other teams bigs ( posting up Bonner ) or their smalls ( with Bonner standing at the Rim as the help Defender ). So I ask yall, Do yall really mind Bonner starting at Center?

[portnoy1]

Sheed and Horry.

They were both centers to a greater extent than Bonner ever was.

This whole debate is silly.

Bonner is the 3rd or 4th best big currently on the roster. Over the course of the year, he'll play 15-20 mpg because someone has to play those minutes. Unless Mahinmi or Haislip proves they are good enough, that's just the way it is. And don't point to Ratliff unless you've checked out how much he has played in recent years. At best, he plays in 40-50 games as a situational big.

With Duncan and McDyess having their minutes limited and scheduled days off, Ratliff's recent history, Mahinmi and Haislip being totally unproven at the NBA level, and Blair never having played more than 37 games in a season, a proven NBA player who can be relied upon to play every game for 15-20 minutes has value. That is, until someone else emerges or a trade is made.

I'll leave it to Pop to figure out the best way to deploy various combinations of Duncan, McDyess, Bonner, and Blair over the course of the regular season. Quite frankly, I don't understand the gnashing of teeth over Bonner getting his minutes to start the first and 3rd quarters as opposed to bridging the 1st/2nd and 3rd/4th.

If he starts playing 30mpg or closing out the final minutes of close games, I'll get concerned. Not until then.All that you just said is the reason we need a trade for a big. Jeff Foster is looking pretty good right about now, wouldnt yall say? the good thing is that he was born and raised here. he is 32 but is a solid rebounder and passer and was pretty durable last year. He also is a legit rebounder, unlike Biedrins or Lee who play alongside 4 guards and thus get all the rebounds they can ask for. He gets rebounds playing alongside my man Troy Murphy who was 2 leading rebounder in the league behind Dwight Howard. Which means if he plays next to Tim he can still get 7-10 rebounds in limited minutes unlike Kurt Thomas who was pretty solid but still had trouble playing with a solid rebounder in Tim ( he only averaged 5brds ). Part of that was his playing time though.

[Mel_13]

It might leave Tim in a 1 on 1 situation, but it limits offensive Rebounds. When Oberto was with the spurs he got layups cause he would move without the ball around the paint area and would get passes from Duncan. He also was able to get O boards. Bonner has some trouble getting rebounds on the offensive and Defensive end. Everyone keeps saying that its ok for him to start as long as he doesnt finish. Thats nonsense. If he starts the First 6-8 minutes we'll have 1 of 2 results. 1 - He makes 3's and opens up the floor. 2 - He doesn't hit any shots and all his faults come to light since he can only shoot. That means that in the 1st quarter we'll find the spurs down 8-10 pts getting outrebounded and swallowing a whole bunch of points in the paint from the other teams bigs ( posting up Bonner ) or their smalls ( with Bonner standing at the Rim as the help Defender ). So I ask yall, Do yall really mind Bonner starting at Center?

What you say would hold more water if you backed it up with facts rather than unfounded assumptions. The game logs are out there. Examine the first and third quarters of last season's games and prove your point. Given Bonners +/- numbers from last year, I'm guessing you won't be able to do it.

Furthermore, the dire consequences you predict during Bonner's time on the court would happen no matter when he plays. Do you want him to share the frontcourt with Tim or Blair for the majority of his minutes? Cuz he's gonna get minutes at some point in the game.

[Mel_13]

All that you just said is the reason we need a trade for a big. Jeff Foster is looking pretty good right about now, wouldnt yall say? the good thing is that he was born and raised here. he is 32 but is a solid rebounder and passer and was pretty durable last year. He also is a legit rebounder, unlike Biedrins or Lee who play alongside 4 guards and thus get all the rebounds they can ask for. He gets rebounds playing alongside my man Troy Murphy who was 2 leading rebounder in the league behind Dwight Howard. Which means if he plays next to Tim he can still get 7-10 rebounds in limited minutes unlike Kurt Thomas who was pretty solid but still had trouble playing with a solid rebounder in Tim ( he only averaged 5brds ). Part of that was his playing time though.

I'm glad to see you have come on board the Foster bandwagon. Much better option than Diop and not a pipedream like Pryz. A trade that included Bonner going out and Foster coming in would increase the Spurs chances of winning a title this year.

[portnoy1]

What you say would hold more water if you backed it up with facts rather than unfounded assumptions. The game logs are out there. Examine the first and third quarters of last season's games and prove your point. Given Bonners +/- numbers from last year, I'm guessing you won't be able to do it.

Furthermore, the dire consequences you predict during Bonner's time on the court would happen no matter when he plays. Do you want him to share the frontcourt with Tim or Blair for the majority of his minutes? Cuz he's gonna get minutes at some point in the game.
I'd play him with Mcdyess or Tim. Not Blair cause of the height situation. Timmy being able to go 1 on 1 isnt that important anymore when you have other weapons. TP slashing / Manu Slashing / RJ posting up. Also keep in mind Tim doesn't get double team as much anymore. So bonners importance in stretching the defense is not that big anymore. Mcdyess has enough range to make another big come outside the paint anyway.

[Mel_13]

I'd play him with Mcdyess or Tim. Not Blair cause of the height situation. Timmy being able to go 1 on 1 isnt that important anymore when you have other weapons. TP slashing / Manu Slashing / RJ posting up. Also keep in mind Tim doesn't get double team as much anymore. So bonners importance in stretching the defense is not that big anymore. Mcdyess has enough range to make another big come outside the paint anyway.

So either starting with Tim or coming off the bench with McDyess? To come off the bench with McDyess means that Blair starts with Tim. So it seems like you're actually OK with Bonner starting with Tim, no?

[portnoy1]

So either starting with Tim or coming off the bench with McDyess? To come off the bench with McDyess means that Blair starts with Tim. So it seems like you're actually OK with Bonner starting with Tim, no?
My bad I thought you meant him just getting playing time with certain players, not neccesarily starting. In that case I would want him coming off the bench with Blair hands down. That might open up things for Manu and GHill. And Hopefully for that short stint Blair can cover for him in the rebounding department enough to where it doesn't hurt us.

[Mel_13]

My bad I thought you meant him just getting playing time with certain players, not neccesarily starting. In that case I would want him coming off the bench with Blair hands down. That might open up things for Manu and GHill. And Hopefully for that short stint Blair can cover for him in the rebounding department enough to where it doesn't hurt us.

Then we'll see. I don't think a Bonner/Blair frontcourt for 15 mpg will work and I really don't think we'll see Pop employ that combination. I believe we'll see both Blair and Bonner paired with either Tim, McDyess, or Ratliff in those games where Theo is active.

[portnoy1]

I dont have a real problem with Bonner, i just dont like him playing against the bigmen in the west. Some folks let Bonner off the hook with his rebounding cause he'll hit the 3. But if your a C or a PF you need to have a strong rebouding game no matter if your 7-0 Bargnani or 4-11 Nate Robinson.

[Mel_13]

I dont have a real problem with Bonner, i just dont like him playing against the bigmen in the west. Some folks let Bonner off the hook with his rebounding cause he'll hit the 3. But if your a C or a PF you need to have a strong rebouding game no matter if your 7-0 Bargnani or 4-11 Nate Robinson.

Bonner has his flaws, and they have been well-documented and discussed at length. The bottom line is that he will play 15-20 minutes per game until a trade is made or one of Ian/Haislip proves more worthy of those minutes. I don't think there's much chance that Bonner will play the majority of those 15-20 minutes paired with Blair.

I believe those games against the Bynums/Odens/Nenes of the West will be the games we'll see Ratliff in uniform.

[portnoy1]

Bonner has his flaws, and they have been well-documented and discussed at length. The bottom line is that he will play 15-20 minutes per game until a trade is made or one of Ian/Haislip proves more worthy of those minutes. I don't think there's much chance that Bonner will play the majority of those 15-20 minutes paired with Blair.

I believe those games against the Bynums/Odens/Nenes of the West will be the games we'll see Ratliff in uniform.
I heard some stuff that Blair aint gonna get that much light. So Bonner will most likely get those minutes. Ian/haislip have a casual approach toward the game.That wont fly with Pop. How bout we trade Blair/Mcdyess/Ratliff for Diop? :lol:lmao

[mfanatic]

You guys keep saying bonner is this and that, he can shoot, blah blah, let's face it, if he plays AT ALL when we play the lakers, we will lose. So there is no need of having him play now.
Our lineup should be something like:

Tony/Hill
Finley/Mason
Jefferson/Manu
Duncan/Blair/Bonner
Theo (only for 6 minutes in the beginning)/ Mcdyess/Ian

I dont want to see bonner on the court, even if hes averaging 20 PPG, he leaves Duncan VERY vulnerable and is too slow.

[Mel_13]

You guys keep saying bonner is this and that, he can shoot, blah blah, let's face it, if he plays AT ALL when we play the lakers, we will lose. So there is no need of having him play now.
Our lineup should be something like:

Tony/Hill
Finley/Mason
Jefferson/Manu
Duncan/Blair/Bonner
Theo (only for 6 minutes in the beginning)/ Mcdyess/Ian

I dont want to see bonner on the court, even if hes averaging 20 PPG, he leaves Duncan VERY vulnerable and is too slow.

Show how you divvy up the 96 minutes at PF/C without playing Bonner.

[Bruno]

I haven't really a problem with Bonner starting. What sucks is Finley starting, Mason should be the starter.

[mfanatic]

Show how you divvy up the 96 minutes at PF/C without playing Bonner.

Duncan (28) / Blair (12) / Ian (8)
Theo (6) / Mcdyess (26) / Theo (6) / Blair (4)

[Agloco]

I heard some stuff that Blair aint gonna get that much light. So Bonner will most likely get those minutes. Ian/haislip have a casual approach toward the game.That wont fly with Pop. How bout we trade Blair/Mcdyess/Ratliff for Diop? :lol:lmao

No way Blair doesn't get at least 15-20 mins per. Contrary to the crap which has been posted here about Bonner, Pop HAS taken note of his superior talent:

"He's gonna be a good player in the NBA. Without any doubt, he's gonna be a good player quickly.....".

Coach Pop - http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/091020_pop.html
@ about 55 seconds.

You don't become a good player quickly without the minutes needed to develop. It's quite obvious that Pop plans to play him, and play him a healthy amount of minutes. It might not be right up front, but I see it coming long before the stretch run begins.

[Kool Bob Love]

http://i38.tinypic.com/156cpk1.gif

[ElNono]

Show how you divvy up the 96 minutes at PF/C without playing Bonner.

C: Duncan 20 - Blair 28
PF: Dice 28 - Ratliff 10 - Ian 10

Unfortunately, knowing Pop, he won't hand 28 mpg to a rookie.

[lefty]

Matt Bonner reminds me of Larry Bird.

Only less athletic

[Mel_13]

Duncan (28) / Blair (12) / Ian (8)
Theo (6) / Mcdyess (26) / Theo (6) / Blair (4)

That's 90 minutes, perhaps you're factoring in 6 minutes of SmallBall, which may be about right.

Good luck with getting 12 mpg out of Ratliff for the entire season and having him intact for the playoffs. Recent history says that's not going to work.

IMO, the Spurs are going to play Bonner or trade him. I can't see him sitting and watching, that will be Haislip's job and he'll have one of Ian, Theo, Tim, or McDyess to keep him company behind the bench.

[Agloco]

I haven't really a problem with Bonner starting. What sucks is Finley starting, Mason should be the starter.

IMO this is as moot as the "should Bonner start" argument. The assumption by most is that Mason will be much more productive than Finley on any given night. And, while I certainly hope that's the case, there might be stretches where Finley gets hot and we should definitely ride the lightning at that point. Regardless of whether or not he starts, playing Finley more than 20 minutes per game would worrisome indeed. I don't think that will be the case though.

Bottom line? Pop has the option of choosing between two deadly shooters off the bench at any given point during the season. No other team in the league can lay claim to such a luxury. I say it's advantageous regardless of who starts.

[portnoy1]

No way Blair doesn't get at least 15-20 mins per. Contrary to the crap which has been posted here about Bonner, Pop HAS taken note of his superior talent:

"He's gonna be a good player in the NBA. Without any doubt, he's gonna be a good player quickly.....".

Coach Pop - http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/091020_pop.html
@ about 55 seconds.

You don't become a good player quickly without the minutes needed to develop. It's quite obvious that Pop plans to play him, and play him a healthy amount of minutes. It might not be right up front, but I see it coming long before the stretch run begins.Thats funny cause Everytime Bonner is mentioned by Pop he talks him up bigtime. When they talk about Blairs contribution he always says something negative. That tells me something is going on. Pop didnt deal with GHill like this. GHill got his playing time and Pop gave him due praise. When it comes to Blair He says stuff like he'll be a good player n junk. But he always says something like we did fine without him. Pop is a nice dude, and for him to say something in that conotation makes me think theirs a problem behind the scenes.

[Mel_13]

C: Duncan 20 - Blair 28
PF: Dice 28 - Ratliff 10 - Ian 10

Unfortunately, knowing Pop, he won't hand 28 mpg to a rookie.

Nor should he, minutes for a rookie should be earned. I believe Blair will earn a regular spot in the rotation, but 28mpg is unlikely.

Not because of Pop's 'trust' issues, but because it may not make sense. Blair's knees are an unknown factor and he has never played more than 37 games or 900+ minutes in a season, and that against a lower of competition with much less traveling. Projecting him for 80 games and over 2200 minutes may well be unrealistic and imprudent.

We'll see, but 75x20 for 1500 minutes is about what I expect to be the upper limit of playing time for our great young prospect in his rookie season.

BTW-do you really want to see TD play only 20mpg?

[ElNono]

BTW-do you really want to see TD play only 20mpg?

YES!!!!! Until mid march that's all I want from TD.
I don't care if we sneak by as the 8th seed. We need him, Manu and Tony healthy by playoffs time.

And BTW, Kevin Durant averaged 34 mpg in his rookie season and played 80 games...

[portnoy1]

I wouldn't mind blair playing 10-20 minutes a game for 82 games. Rebounding is something that is a serious issue as of now. I would rank it up their close to the health issue.

[Mel_13]

YES!!!!! Until mid march that's all I want from TD.
I don't care if we sneak by as the 8th seed. We need him, Manu and Tony healthy by playoffs time.

:lol

Even if Pop agreed, I don't think there's any way TD would go along peacefully. It will be one of the interesting little internal struggles to watch this year as Pop tries to limit the minutes for TD and Manu and the competitive spirit of those two fight against it.

[Mel_13]

And BTW, Kevin Durant averaged 34 mpg in his rookie season and played 80 games...

And TD, Finley, and LeBron all played over 3,000 minutes in their rookie seasons. As did quite a few others. None of them, however, were red-flagged by 29 of 30 teams in the NBA. The Spurs are a conservative organization, I don't think you'll see Blair near the top of this list:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1991&year_max=2009&season_start=1&season_end=1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&lg_id=&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=mp

[Xevious]

Thats funny cause Everytime Bonner is mentioned by Pop he talks him up bigtime. When they talk about Blairs contribution he always says something negative. That tells me something is going on. Pop didnt deal with GHill like this. GHill got his playing time and Pop gave him due praise. When it comes to Blair He says stuff like he'll be a good player n junk. But he always says something like we did fine without him. Pop is a nice dude, and for him to say something in that conotation makes me think theirs a problem behind the scenes.
Yeah I mentioned the same thing in another thread. Pop seems to be putting a negative spin on any question related to Blair - all while saying "he did a fine job" when asked about any other player.

I just hope Blair gets minutes.

[portnoy1]

YES!!!!! Until mid march that's all I want from TD.
I don't care if we sneak by as the 8th seed. We need him, Manu and Tony healthy by playoffs time.

And BTW, Kevin Durant averaged 34 mpg in his rookie season and played 80 games...
Different players, different situation. Seattle wasn't going anywhere. Thats why he played all those games and minutes. Blair is on a Championship caliber team, With a hall of Famer playing his Position who could teach him alot more. Durant tall skinnnnnnny SF Blair Undersized Physically imposing PF.

[SpurNation]

It doesn't matter as long as the results end up as W's.

[portnoy1]

It doesn't matter as long as the results end up as W's.
Thats cool, you say that. But honestly ask yourself can the spurs win against the lakers Bynum/Odom/Gasol Mavs Gooden/Marion/Dampier Nuggets Nene/Martin/Birdman Blazers Pryzbilla/Aldridge/Oden if Bonner is the starting Center or getting significant minutes 20-25?????? :(

[portnoy1]

All the guys i mention above are good/physical/athletic rebounders, which as we know is not Bonners strength.

[024]

i don't want bonner to start because he will be guarding the opposing team's best big. he's fine against bench bigs but having him guard all-star bigs is a pretty bad idea. they will get off to a great start. i rather have them slowly struggle throughout the game and put mcdyess on them from the start and switch off with duncan. with that said, bonner starting in the first half of the regular season makes sense as it gives mcdyess and ratliff some time off. i'm all for that as long as mcdyess eventually phases into the starting lineup and finley does not start with bonner.

[Phenomanul]

Thats funny cause Everytime Bonner is mentioned by Pop he talks him up bigtime. When they talk about Blairs contribution he always says something negative. That tells me something is going on. Pop didnt deal with GHill like this. GHill got his playing time and Pop gave him due praise. When it comes to Blair He says stuff like he'll be a good player n junk. But he always says something like we did fine without him. Pop is a nice dude, and for him to say something in that conotation makes me think theirs a problem behind the scenes.

You do realize Pop was being sarcastic... right??

[SpurNation]

Thats cool, you say that. But honestly ask yourself can the spurs win against the lakers Bynum/Odom/Gasol Mavs Gooden/Marion/Dampier Nuggets Nene/Martin/Birdman Blazers Pryzbilla/Aldridge/Oden if Bonner is the starting Center or getting significant minutes 20-25?????? :(

Point accepted if that lineup produces losses.

I think you are basing your speculation compared to last year and reasonably so if the lineup hadn't changed as much as it has since last year.

This is a new frontline lineup compared to last year. The rotations are going to be different as well as the talent upgrade.

I'm willing to see how it works out. Bonner isn't as much of a mamby pamby that many think he is. Diffenciencies yes...totally useless No.

[Trimble87]

Regarding Pop talking up Bonner and being negative/non commital about Blairs progress... Pop knows how to get the most out of his players, he know when they need a kick in the mouth and when they need an encouraging word. I think that is what this is.

Blair is a rookie and Pop is going to make him earn everything he gets. I'm sure he also wants to proactively lower our hopes because I am willing to bet Blair doesent get a ton of playing time unless he just flat out dominates when hes in there. Blair is also playing with a chip on his shoulder because so many teams passed on him, I bet you anything Pop wants to keep a fan under that fire.

Bonner on the other hand is, as demonstrated by his collapse in the postseason, a total wuss. He needds to be coddled. For him to have any positive impact for us this season and going into march/april he needs to have high confidence in himself, and believe he has the confidence of the coaches.

As for the issue of Bonner starting... I dont mind it so much. Bonner spreads the floor fot TP and TD to start he game and can provide a shot in the arm for a sometimes lackluster spurs offense with a few key 3's. When it comes down to it Pop will play the matchups. I would be highly surprised if Bonner started against teams like the Lakers who have a huge and talented front line. Pop is also quick to pull people out for defensive mis-queues and poor effort/rebounding etc. Last year we had no options for him to go to. But this year with Dyes, Blair and Theo all waiting in the wings I think Pop will be much quicker to sit him when he plays badly.

[portnoy1]

Point accepted if that lineup produces losses.

I think you are basing your speculation compared to last year and reasonably so if the lineup hadn't changed as much as it has since last year.

This is a new frontline lineup compared to last year. The rotations are going to be different as well as the talent upgrade.

I'm willing to see how it works out. Bonner isn't as much of a mamby pamby that many think he is. Diffenciencies yes...totally useless No.
Nah he can hit that 3. But, that rebounding needs to improve. You may say the talent is different, however RJ is not an outstanding Rebounder just like Finley is not. The bigs in the west are still the same. Duncan is older and Bonner is still Bonner. Him going up against the west strong rebounding bigs is a bad combination, wouldn't you say?

[SpurNation]

Nah he can hit that 3. But, that rebounding needs to improve. You may say the talent is different, however RJ is not an outstanding Rebounder just like Finley is not. The bigs in the west are still the same. Duncan is older and Bonner is still Bonner. Him going up against the west strong rebounding bigs is a bad combination, wouldn't you say?

Agreed. But the offense will be better because of the additions and so offensive rebounding hopefully won't be a necessity and hopefully the defense will be improved to not have to worry as much about penetration.

It's all an experiment at this point. We'll see as the season progresses.

And as the season progresses...hopefully Blair, McDyess and Jefferson will absorb enough knowledge about the system that if Bonner is a detriment they could replace his minutes with productivity.

[SCdac]

I'm as a big a Bonner critic as anyone, but I'm not going to huff and puff every time he gets a start. At the end of the day he's a part of the rotation one way or another. With more depth now, Bonner starting isn't as much of a glaring weakness as say last season, but still a weakness (imo). His role simply won't be as big this season, which is good, for him and for the team.

I don't completely agree with the "it's who finishes the games that matters" notion though. I'd argue the first three quarters matter very much for a team that has had serious offensive droughts the past two seasons and still has much chemistry to develop. How many times have we seen the Spurs go through uphill battles in the 3rd and 4th quarter of games (against weak teams too)? Parker generally does alot of his damage in the first half. Both Tony and Tim scored 6.0 points or more in the first quarter of games last season, but were putting up 5.8 ppg and 4.3 ppg in fourth quarters on worse FG%'s. Compared to other teams players, that's not bad, but any chance we get to dominate prior to the fourth quarter, we need to take it IMO. I don't have a stat, but if I had to guess, the Spurs laid a 3rd quarter egg and went into the 4th quarter with a deficit too many times in the recent past. Too many unnecessarily close games last season. We can't count on 4th quarter comebacks and offensive brilliance at the tail end of games, in fact I'd like to see the opposite - more blowouts, more convincing wins, more defensive lock downs.

No, I don't want to see Matt finishing games, but I don't really want to see him starting either, going up against the West/Okafor, Bynum/Gasol, Martin/Nene combinations of the league and giving them a fair chance offensively to stay in the game early on. He stretches the defense for Duncan, but that's not the only way Tim can score, and living by the three-ball isn't very assuring (both Tim and Dyess are 50-55 FG%). Often times those offensive possessions are "one and done". Either all the passes lead to a made three or a defensive rebound for the opponent. Personally, I'm partial to being aggressive off the bat all while showing our defensive colors. Defensively, I'd like to see what McDyess and Duncan can do against starting front courts, versus the offensive complements Bonner and Duncan have going on.

[portnoy1]

Amen brother. Thats it in a nutshell.

[Agloco]

Thats funny cause Everytime Bonner is mentioned by Pop he talks him up bigtime. When they talk about Blairs contribution he always says something negative. That tells me something is going on. Pop didnt deal with GHill like this. GHill got his playing time and Pop gave him due praise. When it comes to Blair He says stuff like he'll be a good player n junk. But he always says something like we did fine without him. Pop is a nice dude, and for him to say something in that conotation makes me think theirs a problem behind the scenes.

Pop is a master psychologist. He doesn't want Blair to get a big head about things, nor does he want Bonner's nuts to shrivel up and blow away in the wind. Hence all of the emotional head for the Red Rocket.

[portnoy1]

Pop is a master psychologist. He doesn't want Blair to get a big head about things, nor does he want Bonner's nuts to shrivel up and blow away in the wind. Hence all of the emotional head for the Red Rocket.
Weird, you act as if Bonner had nuts to begin with.:lmao

[Agloco]

Weird, you act as if Bonner had nuts to begin with.:lmao

Fail......

I merely point out how Pop uses words with his players like a physician would use psychotropic drugs on a patient. Indeed it's Pop who acts as if Bonner had nuts to begin with, and if he keeps fucking with his head, (read: Alternatively putting him on the bench and back in the starting lineup) it will all but ensure that we get the castrated version of Bonner. We don't need that now do we?

[portnoy1]

Fail......

I merely point out how Pop uses words with his players like a physician would use psychotropic drugs on a patient. Indeed it's Pop who acts as if Bonner had nuts to begin with, and if he keeps fucking with his head, (read: Alternatively putting him on the bench and back in the starting lineup) it will all but ensure that we get the castrated version of Bonner. We don't need that now do we?
No we dont.

[SenorSpur]

Despite the benefits of how Bonner spreads the floor with his shooting, he's STILL an obvious defensive liability. Sounds like Green got the best of him last night. And it's not just that. THe longer he plays the more he gets exposed. I recall vividly how the elite teams attacked him repeatedly last year.

The good news is Bonner KNOWS the system and will be an excellent fallback option until the new guys get "up to speed". Bonner is certainly a valuable role player for this team, but in a RESERVE role only. Much like Finley, it's diminishing returns when he has to log longer minutes. I certainly don't think he should start, but he may have to until around midseason.

At some point, Pop is going to have to decide whether he wants great offensive spacing, while sacrificing some defensive rebounding and interior defense, versus giving up some spacing in exchange for some automatic elbow jumpers and solid rebounding and defense.

Starting is not such as big deal as finishing. Personally, I don't want to see him on the court in crunch time. McDyess is quite simply THE superior player - even at his advanced age. I'm sure Pop will make the right call.

[baseline bum]

I'd rather start Finley than Bonner. Hell, I think I'd rather go back and start Van Exel over Bonner.

[ElNono]

See, there's a problem with this.

I think we can all agree upon 1 thing, regardless of if you hate Bonner or not, for whatever retarded reason: He can hit the 3 and spread the floor with the best of them.

So knowing that, against the Lakers, Bynum/Gasol would be forced out to the 3 point line to defend him. It brings a 7 footer away from the basket. Meanwhile, on offense... Kobe Bryant is going to be chucking, correct? You put Bonner on Bynum and force Bynum to beat you. Which #1, the Lakers will not feed him the amount of times it will take to make it a significant advantage. And #2, Kobe will be chucking with that first group anyway. And #3, Bynum has never shown he can dominate a game of meaning at all.

Phil Jackson is the master of clogging the paint and daring you to beat him from outside. If I'm a coach and I have to give up a shot between Duncan, Manu, Tony, Jefferson or Bonner, I'll pick Bonner every time.
So while in theory Bynum or Gasol should be forced to the 3 point line, that never really happens. The odds that Bonner is going to win one game for you might be decent. But a seven game series is highly unlikely. Plus having him on the court has the added bonus that Gasol, Bynum and Odom will most likely have a direct line to the rim... I'm sorry, but I just can't sugarcoat it.

[xtremesteven33]

Starting Bonner over Mcdyess/Ratliff/Blair is like a middle finger in the face of every Spurs fan...haha

[bless1187]

man after game 5 of last year's playoff, i really thought that be the last i see M. Bonner in a Spurs's jersey; After the offseason in which we added D. Blair, M. Haislip, A. McDyess, T. Ratliff; i was definitely sure he would be traded or at worst be a 5th big on the team. I can't believe the season is one week away and it looks like M. Bonner is going to be our starting C again. I'm sorry but i don't care how good he stretches the floor, starting M. Bonner as our starting C is the equivalent of the Celtics starting B. Scalabraine as there C.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bonner is a 40+% 3-point shooting big man that has solid all-around offensive capabilities, he's not Scalabrine..while he shouldn't be starting, he's still an asset..

[ElNono]

So let me get this straight, because Phil Jackson likes to clog the paint... you don't want Bonner in the game. LOL!?


I don't want Bonner in the game because I rather have a MAN in Dice that can fight for rebounds, or Ratliff that can block shots. ESPECIALLY against the elite teams in both the west and the east.

You know, people that actually help TD man the paint and get our interior defense back to pre-Bonner standards.

[BillMc]

Okay, I won't tell you that Matt Bonner is starting at C again. (Someone else might though...) :wow

[SequSpur]

Bonner is not an asset. He is a 11th or 12th man on any other wnba team...

WTF?

Bonner spreading out the Lakers? wTF? dude is scared shitless to play against any other team not named the Clippers...

Seriously...dude, I can't take this shit..you don't go and break the bank for players and continue to run with the same shit that barely got you in the playoffs and that you exited with against a shitty dallas team that was run out of the building vs. denver...

come the fuck on already.

[SequSpur]

McDyess isn't even as tall as Bonner. He isn't exactly an enforcer. He also doesn't have Bonner's range. Ratliff is a joke. He would be left unguarded by any team that played against him.

Elnono is right...do you want me to give you the link to the wnba forum? you might be able to talk up matt bonner there.

[peskypesky]

2004 Pistons
2005 Spurs

Ben Wallace and Nazr Mohammed are not known as 3point shooters. Not on this planet.

[Mel_13]

Ben Wallace and Nazr Mohammed are not known as 3point shooters. Not on this planet.

If Bonner is a center, so were Sheed and Horry.

[ElNono]

McDyess isn't even as tall as Bonner. He isn't exactly an enforcer. He also doesn't have Bonner's range. Ratliff is a joke. He would be left unguarded by any team that played against him.

LOL, Bonner better than Dice. Now I've seen it all. And we can afford to have Ratliff unguarded when you have guys like Manu, Tony, RJ and Duncan out there. If anything, it allows for an offensive board on a miss. But most important of all, we actually can have a semblance of intimidating defense, which is what our team needs to refocus on.

[peskypesky]

If Bonner is a center, so were Sheed and Horry.

i don't follow your logic. sheed and horry were PFs. bonner is a center. and you clearly don't know shit about basketball if you think bonner's game is the same as horry and sheed. there's no comparison.

[Mel_13]

i don't follow your logic. sheed and horry were PFs. bonner is a center. and you clearly don't know shit about basketball if you think bonner's game is the same as horry and sheed. there's no comparison.

The original post was a joke meant to poke fun at your dramatic over-the-top post.

Your over-the-top response to my response would indicate that you apparently don't see the humor in either post.

Can't win 'em all.

[peskypesky]

The original post was a joke meant to poke fun at your dramatic over-the-top post.

Your over-the-top response to my response would indicate that you apparently don't see the humor in either post.

Can't win 'em all.

oh. ha ha ha.

[ElNono]

I didn't say he was better. But the fact is McDyess is old as dirt and isn't a lockdown defender, he also doesn't have 3 point range. So basically he's a man of many traits, and a master of nothing.

Dice is:
1) A better scorer than Bonner
2) A better rebounder than Bonner
3) A better defender than Bonner

...and this is not up for discussion. I don't care if he's 35 years older than Bonner. All of the above still hold true.


Based on what? Is this 2005?

It's 2009 and you still don't seem to know who we run our offense through.
At least with guys like Mel, I can disagree, but he knows how we play.
But not knowing shit is par for the course for you.


Then you make a deal for someone who isn't a scrub, which Ratliff is.

We did. We got Dice. Ratliff came to play a secondary role off the bench when we need more shotblocking.

[DJB]

At some point, Pop is going to have to decide whether he wants great offensive spacing, while sacrificing some defensive rebounding and interior defense, versus giving up some spacing in exchange for some automatic elbow jumpers and solid rebounding and defense.


Waiting for that decision is going to be almost unbearable. :wakeup

[peskypesky]

Dice is:
1) A better scorer than Bonner
2) A better rebounder than Bonner
3) A better defender than Bonner

...and this is not up for discussion. I don't care if he's 35 years older than Bonner. All of the above still hold true.


isn't it painful trying to argue with knuckleheads? don't waste your time or energy. instead, let's try to have intelligent discussion and ignore the fools.

Bonner = scrub

[TJastal]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao


Oh, how convenient. Considering you're decidedly wrong.

Last year:

Bonner 8.2PPG (50%FG, 44% 3PTFG, 74%FT) in 23 minutes
McDyess 9.6PPG (51%FG, N/A 3PTFG, 69%FT) in 30 minutes

You sir, have been owned. Come again.

In the playoffs last year when it counted.

Bonner's averages in 5 games (20 mins/game): 3pts | 3.2 reb | 0 asst | .4 blocks. Shot a whopping 23% from the field, and 21% from long range

Wow, Bonner sure was an offensive juggernaut last year against the mavs.

[TJastal]

5 games > 82 games

Exactly right, those 5 games are 10X as important as the 82 that came before. Thanks for proving my point.

[ElNono]

While ordinarily true, it wouldn't matter, because the Spurs didn't have the team to make any noise in the playoffs anyway. Add on top of that the fact that nobody outside of TD or TP played even remotely close to good, and I'll take an 82 game sampling over 5 games.

Stop trying to save face. Dice not only shot a better clip than Bonner last season (which was Bonner breakout season with the Spurs, BTW), he's undisputedly the better defender and rebounder.

Your remark that Dice actually didn't shoot treys actually highlights my point. The 3 pointer is the lowest percentage shot in basketball, and something that should be used only sporadically. Last season we played to win with the trey or die with the trey. Considering the lack of talent, you could even argue that's all we could do. But this season we have enough good penetrators and guys that can make jumpers to keep defenses honest, while we don't have to give up offensive rebounding for it, nor have a huge black hole in the paint defensively.
That's exactly why it makes absolutely no sense to play Bonner like last season.

[Mel_13]

That's exactly why it makes absolutely no sense to play Bonner like last season.

Bonner will get rotation minutes, especially at the outset, but he will play as much or more than last season only if something quite bad has happened. Too much talent has been added for him to retain or increase his overall minutes.

[ElNono]

Bonner will get rotation minutes, especially at the outset, but he will play as much or more than last season only if something quite bad has happened. Too much talent has been added for him to retain or increase his overall minutes.

Logic would dictate that. However, Pop can be stubborn at times, especially with his vets. At the end of last season we had to endure Jack Vaughn running the backup PG while a stud like Hill was watching from the sidelines.
I am concerned, up to a certain degree, that we'll see the same with Blair and Bonner this season.

[Mel_13]

Logic would dictate that. However, Pop can be stubborn at times, especially with his vets. At the end of last season we had to endure Jack Vaughn running the backup PG while a stud like Hill was watching from the sidelines.
I am concerned, up to a certain degree, that we'll see the same with Blair and Bonner this season.

I suppose anything is possible, but I say sit back and enjoy what the Spurs will put on display this year. Savor what we have left of Tim and Manu, pull for whoever may be out there in silver and black, and go along for what promises the best ride in years. I can't start getting stressed about rotation, minutes, and such until March.

[ElNono]

I suppose anything is possible, but I say sit back and enjoy what the Spurs will put on display this year. Savor what we have left of Tim and Manu, pull for whoever may be out there in silver and black, and go along for what promises the best ride in years. I can't start getting stressed about rotation, minutes, and such until March.

I said it in another thread... I'll sweat it when and if Pop starts handing 20+ minutes per game to Finley/Bonner in detriment of other players...
Otherwise, it should be a lot of fun and can't wait for the season to start... :toast

[Mel_13]

I said it in another thread... I'll sweat it when and if Pop starts handing 20+ minutes per game to Finley/Bonner in detriment of other players...
Otherwise, it should be a lot of fun and can't wait for the season to start... :toast

Indeed

[TJastal]

I said it in another thread... I'll sweat it when and if Pop starts handing 20+ minutes per game to Finley/Bonner in detriment of other players...
Otherwise, it should be a lot of fun and can't wait for the season to start... :toast

Better get your sweat towel out then. Fin and Bon-bon are STILL in the starting lineup which is pretty much going to guarantee 20+ minutes each.

[carib]

Bring back some old player to put in that C position if Bonner is going to start.

[Agloco]

Better get your sweat towel out then. Fin and Bon-bon are STILL in the starting lineup which is pretty much going to guarantee 20+ minutes each.

I see your concern but I think much of the "Fin-Bo" fear is unfounded. Pop has got options on his bench now outside of those two. Any sign that either of them is stinking up the joint will be countered with a loud gong and a quick hook on Pop's part.

I don't expect that he will pull Bonner from the starting lineup regardless of how he's playing since that might do more harm than good from a psychological standpoint. He will however limit his minutes appropriately if he's not producing. Same for Finley.

[TJastal]

I see your concern but I think much of the "Fin-Bo" fear is unfounded. Pop has got options on his bench now outside of those two. Any sign that either of them is stinking up the joint will be countered with a loud gong and a quick hook on Pop's part.

I don't expect that he will pull Bonner from the starting lineup regardless of how he's playing since that might do more harm than good from a psychological standpoint. He will however limit his minutes appropriately if he's not producing. Same for Finley.

Uh, how about the playoffs last year? Is that enough of a "sign" for you? Both of them stunk for the most part and were a large reason the spurs got bitchslapped out of the playoffs.

[Agloco]

Uh, how about the playoffs last year? Is that enough of a "sign" for you? Both of them stunk for the most part and were a large reason the spurs got bitchslapped out of the playoffs.


I see your concern but I think much of the "Fin-Bo" fear is unfounded. Pop has got options on his bench now outside of those two. Any sign that either of them is stinking up the joint will be countered with a loud gong and a quick hook on Pop's part.

I don't expect that he will pull Bonner from the starting lineup regardless of how he's playing since that might do more harm than good from a psychological standpoint. He will however limit his minutes appropriately if he's not producing. Same for Finley.

[ElNono]

I don't expect that he will pull Bonner from the starting lineup regardless of how he's playing since that might do more harm than good from a psychological standpoint.

See, this is a problem. I can see prioritizing the psychological well being of any of the Big 3 in detriment of somebody else, because if any of those 3 guys are not ok, we're screwed. I can also understand Pop doing that last season when we basically had nobody behind Bonner that could produce. But there's no excuse this season, IMO. Plus, do you really want a mentally weaksauce out there when it matters? I thought the Dallas series pretty much sealed the deal about that, but I guess not.

[TJastal]

Um...
If we look at the roster last year... Pop did indeed "have other options" to use as a starting center. How about Kurt Thomas? Oberto? Drew Gooden?........all of whom would have been better choices.

But Pop elected not to use them much, and they got sporadic and spotty minutes off the bench while Bonner got fairly consistent minutes up to the last game where Popovich finally got it through his dense skull to limit his minutes.

Oberto, Gooden, and KT all took a backseat to Bonner last year in PT, thanks to Pop. Now, here we are again, it's deja-vu and Bonner again appears he's going to start and get consistent minutes but now instead of KT, Gooden, and Oberto its gonna be McDyess, Blair, and Ratliff (and perhaps Mahinmi) all fighting for the scrap minutes off the bench, while Bonner will enjoy the consistency of his role as a starter and log his 20-25 mins per game. Goodie for Bonner.

Spurs vs mavs game 1
Finley 32 mins
Bonner 18 mins
Thomas 18 mins
Gooden 18 mins
F Oberto DNP-CD
G. Hill DNP-CD

Spurs vs Mavs game 2
Finley 25 mins
Bonner 29 mins
Gooden 19 mins
K Thomas 13 mins
Oberto 5 mins
G Hill 5 mins
J Vaughn 5 mins

Spurs vs Mavs game 3
Finley 17 mins
Bonner 20 mins
Thomas 18 mins
Gooden 26 mins
Oberto 17 mins

Spurs vs mavs game 4
Finley 36 mins
Bonner 22 mins
Thomas 9 mins
Gooden 8 mins
G Hill 14 mins
Oberto DNP - CD

Spurs vs mavs game 5
Finley 33 mins
Bonner 11 mins
Thomas 22 mins
Hill 33 mins
Oberto DNP - CD
Gooden DNP - CD

As for Finley playing so many minutes, this was due to Pop being too chicken to give George Hill a chance to work through his mistakes. Which doesn't exactly help your star rookie learn and get better. Instead he opted to try and mold Roger Mason into a backup point guard in the last 20 games of the season which was an utter failure and resulted in destroying what was left of RMJ's confidence and ultimately his minutes.

[Agloco]

Um...
If we look at the roster last year... Pop did indeed "have other options" to use as a starting center. How about Kurt Thomas? Oberto? Drew Gooden?........all of whom would have been better choices.



Funny how none of your "better choices" are on the roster this year. You're honestly advocating that KT or Oberto were better options to help TD and Parker on the offensive end last year? I won't even bother with a retort.

The only real argument you could make was for Gooden. The problem with him is that he allowed too many easy baskets on the defensive end. His lack of BB IQ is well documented and you saw that magnified by the fact that he wasn't familiar with the Spurs system by the time the playoffs rolled around. The good plays he made were more than offset by the boneheaded plays, and we all know that Pop has a low tolerance for crap like that.

While I agree with your take on Mason (I personally think it was the biggest mistake Pop has made in his coaching tenure with the Spurs....), I don't think minute allocation for Hill will be an issue this year. He's the backup PG this year, period. Last year was a transition for him so he didnt want to overwhelm him. Remember, Hill was an SG in college.

So here we are this year with McDyess, Blair and Ratliff as the replacement bigs. I suppose you could try to make the argument that Oberto, Thomas and Gooden were better, but most people who know anything about basketball fundamentals would laugh at you. The main point here is that our dependency on Bonners game has been much diminished by our off season acquisitions. It's going to be really fun to watch.

[TJastal]

Yep I am advocating that Thomas and Oberto would have been better choices. The way Bonner played in that 1st game, he should have been pulled after 5-6 mins of missing everything he threw up and not helping whatsoever (as per usual) defensively and put on the end of the bench.


"So here we are this year with McDyess, Blair and Ratliff as the replacement bigs. I suppose you could try to make the argument that Oberto, Thomas and Gooden were better, but most people who know anything about basketball fundamentals would laugh at you."

Didn't say they were better than the new guys, but they weren't nearly as bad as to be stuck behind a 1-trick pony that forgot how to do his trick.

"The main point here is that our dependency on Bonners game has been much diminished by our off season acquisitions. It's going to be really fun to watch."

That's a good point in theory and all.. but that actually leads right into the point that I'm trying to make. That Pop's love for Bonner and Fin has no limitations, shown by the fact that he's MAKING THEM STARTERS AGAIN.

[portnoy1]

Yep I am advocating that Thomas and Oberto would have been better choices. The way Bonner played in that 1st game, he should have been pulled after 5-6 mins of missing everything he threw up and not helping whatsoever (as per usual) defensively and put on the end of the bench.


"So here we are this year with McDyess, Blair and Ratliff as the replacement bigs. I suppose you could try to make the argument that Oberto, Thomas and Gooden were better, but most people who know anything about basketball fundamentals would laugh at you."

Didn't say they were better than the new guys, but they weren't nearly as bad as to be stuck behind a 1-trick pony that forgot how to do his trick.

"The main point here is that our dependency on Bonners game has been much diminished by our off season acquisitions. It's going to be really fun to watch."

That's a good point in theory and all.. but that actually leads right into the point that I'm trying to make. That Pop's love for Bonner and Fin has no limitations, shown by the fact that he's MAKING THEM STARTERS AGAIN.
All spurs fans seem to talk about is the lack of scoring the spurs had. They use that as a reason for Bonner starting and logging consistent Minutes. However another Main Reason we lost is lack of DEFENSE, which would include rebounding. In all the games the spurs lost they were outrebounded. The game 2 that the spurs won they outrebounded the mavs.

game 1 dallas 39rbds spurs 35 ( Dirk / Dampier 19rbs - Tim/Bonner 10 ) L
game 2 dallas 28 rbds spurs 44 ( Dirk/Dampier 10 rbs - Tim/Bonner 18 )W game 3 dallas 51 rbds spurs 41 ( Dirk/Dampier 16rbds - Tim/Bonner 6 ) L
game 4 dallas 49 rbds spurs 35 ( Dirk/Dampier 19 rbds - Tim/Bonner 11 )L
game 5 dallas 40 rbds spurs 33 ( Dirk/Dampier 21rbds - Tim/Bonner 11) L


Rebounding is a very important part of defense. It also means you have ( or dont have ) a presence in the paint. Bonner has trouble rebounding and KT/Gooden are most certainly better rebounders than Bonner, they just cant provide you with a 3pt shot. Oberto is also known to be a better rebounder, he hustles and is smarter defensively and offensively than Bonner. They were all better options than Bonner. It would have been easier to take away 10-15pts off of O boards and guard penetration than it is to add 10-15pts hoping that Bonner will get hot. That scheme worked during the Regular season when the spurs could spread the floor parker and hit 3pt shots. In the Playoffs that just dont fly. Example ( Phoenix Suns ). If you dont play D and get rebounds (all together protecting the paint ) then you dont win.

[TJastal]

I remember watching a game last year where Bonner get outrebounded repeatedly by Matt Barnes, a guy 2 inches shorter.

Rebounding is defenitely not one of Bonner's strengths.

[mad0214]

bonner and ian have no business being on the spurs roster

time to put the rabbit back in the hat pop

I think this says it best. Completely agree, especially with Ian, and I don't know where Bonner fits in with a crowded group of bigs in Duncan, Dice, Blair, Ratliff, Ian and Haislip.

[Solid D]

The Matt Bonner Photo Gallery

http://www.biometric-cardaccess.com/images/CatRaxPlus_-_Web.jpg http://www.biometric-cardaccess.com/images/pic_lcseries_lg.jpg http://www.biometric-cardaccess.com/images/88-magneticproduct.jpg

[portnoy1]

I dont have a huge problem with the guy. Its just that he is not a center. C - block shots and get rebounds. He is not a PF. PF can score on the block and get rebounds. He is not a SF. SF can shoot the 3 drive and even grab a few boards and are versatile. He is a shooter and nothing more. Alot of stuff can get covered up when you have to 7footers in the paint. Thats why a 6-10 guy like Danny Ferry could play SF for the spurs. Bonner on the other hand is not playing with 2 7footers behind him and he is not as mobile as Ferry which is sad cause ferry wasn't the quickest guy in the world. If Bonner misses 10 shots in a row as a Center or really a PF playing next to Tim it doesn't bother me. If he fails to get Rebounds at that postition then all the hot shooting in the world cant cover for him defensively ( Rebounding).

[portnoy1]

Actually Spurs couldve signed Tim Thomas for his height and 3pt shooting for $1million. It would have also allowed Pop to play Small ball with a Thomas at the 4. Then they couldve traded Bonner and maybe someone else for a Shotblocking/Rebounding/Dunking 7footer. But ofcourse not, I mean like Matt Bonner is the Key to our 5 ring.

[TJastal]

Actually Spurs couldve signed Tim Thomas for his height and 3pt shooting for $1million. It would have also allowed Pop to play Small ball with a Thomas at the 4. Then they couldve traded Bonner and maybe someone else for a Shotblocking/Rebounding/Dunking 7footer. But ofcourse not, I mean like Matt Bonner is the Key to our 5 ring.

1 trick pony for 1 mil sounds good.

[Agloco]

Yep I am advocating that Thomas and Oberto would have been better choices. The way Bonner played in that 1st game, he should have been pulled after 5-6 mins of missing everything he threw up and not helping whatsoever (as per usual) defensively and put on the end of the bench.

Didn't say they were better than the new guys, but they weren't nearly as bad as to be stuck behind a 1-trick pony that forgot how to do his trick.

That's a good point in theory and all.. but that actually leads right into the point that I'm trying to make. That Pop's love for Bonner and Fin has no limitations, shown by the fact that he's MAKING THEM STARTERS AGAIN.


Dude. Relax. Have a virtual beer (or two), on me. And scroll though my sig. It should help you calm the nerves a bit.

I don't believe that Pop and RC have gone through all of this trouble to obtain more interior talent simply to let it sit on the bench and watch if Bonner suffer through a key stretch of 1-7 shooting or whatever have you.....

Pop realized last year that Thomas and Oberto weren't going to get it done versus the Mavs. Bonner was it, plain and simple. We needed offense and he was the only option. Neither Thomas or Oberto were going to give that to you. He's got other options now so let the man coach. Finley and Bonner won't average more than 25 minutes per, and that will be at the beginning of the season. As Jefferson, Blair and Dice work their way into the system they WILL find more minutes (RJeff will probably be around 30 to start with....). If you believe otherwise, you're delusional.

[TJastal]

Dude. Relax. Have a virtual beer (or two), on me. And scroll though my sig. It should help you calm the nerves a bit.

I don't believe that Pop and RC have gone through all of this trouble to obtain more interior talent simply to let it sit on the bench and watch if Bonner suffer through a key stretch of 1-7 shooting or whatever have you.....

Pop realized last year that Thomas and Oberto weren't going to get it done versus the Mavs. Bonner was it, plain and simple. We needed offense and he was the only option. Neither Thomas or Oberto were going to give that to you. He's got other options now so let the man coach. Finley and Bonner won't average more than 25 minutes per, and that will be at the beginning of the season. As Jefferson, Blair and Dice work their way into the system they WILL find more minutes (RJeff will probably be around 30 to start with....). If you believe otherwise, you're delusional.

How can you be so sure that Thomas and Oberto wouldn't have gotten it done? Or even Gooden for that matter. If the spurs had gotten a halfway decent game from their starting center in GAME 1 (and by decent I mean more than the zero pts & 1 rebound in 18 mins that Bonner logged) they could have very well won that game, and then gone to Dallas up 2-0 then who knows.

[Mel_13]

How can you be so sure that Thomas and Oberto wouldn't have gotten it done? Or even Gooden for that matter. If the spurs had gotten a halfway decent game from their starting center in GAME 1 (and by decent I mean more than the zero pts & 1 rebound in 18 mins that Bonner logged) they could have very well won that game, and then gone to Dallas up 2-0 then who knows.

The real question is why are you still obsessing over this? Let it go, watch the season unfold, pull for your team.

[Agloco]

How can you be so sure that Thomas and Oberto wouldn't have gotten it done? Or even Gooden for that matter. If the spurs had gotten a halfway decent game from their starting center in GAME 1 (and by decent I mean more than the zero pts & 1 rebound in 18 mins that Bonner logged) they could have very well won that game, and then gone to Dallas up 2-0 then who knows.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

Pop did limit Bonners minutes in Game 1...... 18 minutes is hardly anything to gripe about, starter or not.

Going up to Dallas 2-0? Yeah who knows? But I say Mavericks in 6......

[portnoy1]

The real question is why are you still obsessing over this? Let it go, watch the season unfold, pull for your team.
I like how you wanted it to end so quickly. Were talking about Mavs / Spurs 2009 playoffs cause of Matt Bonner starting. He's not obsessing over the lost, he is noticing a trend that could well carry into the future. Namely, once again Matt Bonner starting at C, when Superior Talent is available and has been for sometime now including last season.

[portnoy1]

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

Pop did limit Bonners minutes in Game 1...... 18 minutes is hardly anything to gripe about, starter or not.

Going up to Dallas 2-0? Yeah who knows? But I say Mavericks in 6......
He limited Bonners minutes because he had to. Bonner in 18 minutes had 4 fouls.

[Mel_13]

I like how you wanted it to end so quickly. Were talking about Mavs / Spurs 2009 playoffs cause of Matt Bonner starting. He's not obsessing over the lost, he is noticing a trend that could well carry into the future. Namely, once again Matt Bonner starting at C, when Superior Talent is available and has been for sometime now including last season.

:lol

[benefactor]

:lol
:lol

[portnoy1]

Something Funny???

[HarlemHeat37]

portnoy FTW!!..

[benefactor]

I didn't realize the playoffs started Wednesday. Curse you Pop!

[benefactor]

Something Funny???
Umm...yeah...you.

[Mel_13]

Something Funny???

That sound you hear is the joke going way over your head:lol

[portnoy1]

Just trying to make a point, but whatever.

[DaBears]

Bonner might in the beginning of the season start, while the adjustment while they wrinkle out the chemistry issue. Then either someone will out play him or POP will do what he did last year and bench him for awhile letting someone else step up.

[portnoy1]

Bonner might in the beginning of the season start, while the adjustment while they wrinkle out the chemistry issue. Then either someone will out play him or POP will do what he did last year and bench him for awhile letting someone else step up.
That is the only reason I could see Bonner getting playing time. But after a month I want him out of the starting lineup. And after 2months I want him out of the rotation.

[Agloco]

How can you be so sure that Thomas and Oberto wouldn't have gotten it done? Or even Gooden for that matter. If the spurs had gotten a halfway decent game from their starting center in GAME 1 (and by decent I mean more than the zero pts & 1 rebound in 18 mins that Bonner logged) they could have very well won that game, and then gone to Dallas up 2-0 then who knows.

He took one shot...... Kurt Thomas? He took two. Oh yeah, he also had zero points..... :rolleyes

So you're left with dusting off Fabs and throwing him into the fray? Fail.


I like how you wanted it to end so quickly. Were talking about Mavs / Spurs 2009 playoffs cause of Matt Bonner starting. He's not obsessing over the lost, he is noticing a trend that could well carry into the future. Namely, once again Matt Bonner starting at C, when Superior Talent is available and has been for sometime now including last season.

Superior Talent is available now. It wasn't last year. :lol


He limited Bonners minutes because he had to. Bonner in 18 minutes had 4 fouls.

Possible, but I don't buy it. There's still two fouls to give there. In addition, Bonner also played 20 minutes in Game 3........He had zero fouls BTW. In no game except Game 2 did he play more than 22 minutes (he played a decent game as I recall). Regardless of what you guys think, Pop IS limiting Bonners minutes when he doesn't produce. You guys are in panic mode for absolutely no reason at all.

[bless1187]

... and in 3 month i want him out of the team.

[Agloco]

:lol


:lol

:lol

[portnoy1]

... and in 3 month i want him out of the team.
AMEN, I actually want that now. But im prepared to wait.

[CGD]

I'm telling you that Matt Bonner is starting at C again.

[portnoy1]

I believe you, thats why all the debate. I'm scared, and some of the guys around here are putting veils over their eyes and laughing it up cause they dont want to see the truth.

[Mel_13]

I believe you, thats why all the debate. I'm scared, and some of the guys around here are putting veils over their eyes and laughing it up cause they dont want to see the truth.

:lol

[benefactor]

Just trying to make a point, but whatever.
What point?

[portnoy1]

:lol
See what I mean?

[Mel_13]

See what I mean?

:lol

[benefactor]

http://www.realestateradiousa.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/village-idiot.jpg

[portnoy1]

What point?
The point that Matt Bonner might Start and get significant Minutes. 1 - cause he knows the system 2 - cause pop likes the 1-4 sets they ran all of last year 3 -Pop is funny with playing Rookies, which might Put the Beast in a bad position for playing time.

[benefactor]

After beginning with an extra large helping of fail this thread is really starting to win.

[Mel_13]

After beginning with an extra large helping of fail this thread is really starting to win.

:lol:lol

[portnoy1]

Which means?

[benefactor]

The point that Matt Bonner might Start and get significant Minutes. 1 - cause he knows the system 2 - cause pop likes the 1-4 sets they ran all of last year 3 -Pop is funny with playing Rookies, which might Put the Beast in a bad position for playing time.
And how is this a problem in November?

[Agloco]

Which means?

:lol:lol:lol

[portnoy1]

I'm nervous that if Matt Bonner starts to hit shots, then Pop will be forced to keep playing him cause he is a confidence player and benching him after a great shooting effort would ruin him for awhile.

[Agloco]

I'm nervous that if Matt Bonner starts to hit shots, then Pop will be forced to keep playing him cause he is a confidence player and benching him after a great shooting effort would ruin him for awhile.

Why don't you see this in terms of him starting vs being on the bench then. Same psychological impact. He's fragile, Pop knows this. Too bad you can't grasp that.

[benefactor]

I'm nervous that if Matt Bonner starts to hit shots, then Pop will be forced to keep playing him cause he is a confidence player and benching him after a great shooting effort would ruin him for awhile.
If this is going on in March...I will be nervous with you. But hey! Look! It's October!!!

[portnoy1]

Why don't you see this in terms of him starting vs being on the bench then. Same psychological impact. He's fragile, Pop knows this. Too bad you can't grasp that.Ask yourself, do we need sensitive players on a championship team period, and getting significant playing time say 20minutes?

[lefty]

Who cares if he starts as a Center?

It's not a long-term solution, as Pop will use him as a backup PG in the playoffs

[benefactor]

We have a lot of sensitive posters here on Spurstalk...it seems to still work out ok.

[Mel_13]

Which means?

OK, since your battle buddy has left you alone in a free fire zone, I'll try one last time.

Let's say you could prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Bonner played too much last season and might play too much this season. I don't think you can, but let's say you could.

So what?

Pop's gonna play whoever he believes gives the team the best shot at a title.

When you've reached the point in a debate that you are posting a gem like this:


I believe you, thats why all the debate. I'm scared, and some of the guys around here are putting veils over their eyes and laughing it up cause they dont want to see the truth.

you are opening yourself up for whatever may come.

You asked what was so funny. Now you know.

[portnoy1]

If this is going on in March...I will be nervous with you. But hey! Look! It's October!!!
Yeah I know, but I just hope a trend doesn't develop. Thats what I meant in my last post. If Bonner hits shots and his confidence is high, POP wont want to sit him. If he starts for a little while then fine. The guys need time to adjust to the system. But if he hits shots that can change things drastically.

[benefactor]

Yeah I know, but I just hope a trend doesn't develop. Thats what I meant in my last post. If Bonner hits shots and his confidence is high, POP wont want to sit him. If he starts for a little while then fine. The guys need time to adjust to the system. But if he hits shots that can change things drastically.
So you think Pop would play Bonner more minutes than McDyess?

[portnoy1]

So you think Pop would play Bonner more minutes than McDyess?
IF Bonner is hitting shots 24/24 split. But the Rebounding has gota improve even if he is hitting shots. If he Rebounds like a real big man then great and he has earned a decent amount of minutes 20-25. Rebounding is my only problem with Bonner. If he cant hit shots from deep oh well. But he has got to rebound.

[benefactor]

IF Bonner is hitting shots 24/24 split.
Umm...what?

[portnoy1]

Umm...what?
If he hits shots they split time ( 24minutes a piece ) at C or in actuality PF.

[benefactor]

If he hits shots they split time ( 24minutes a piece ) at C or in actuality PF.
Doubtful.

[Agloco]

Ask yourself, do we need sensitive players on a championship team period, and getting significant playing time say 20minutes?


Dunno.......

bezN2AEjf2co1looE2uSzs&NR=1
SpAv_ao7rBsKNBkfEojhXU&feature=related

[portnoy1]

Dunno.......

bezN2AEjf2co1looE2uSzs&NR=1
SpAv_ao7rBsKNBkfEojhXU&feature=related
Would you take Fisher or Big Baby on the team? Or KG in place of Tim on the team?

[admiralsnackbar]

Somebody has to have their aderall scrip brought down a wee notch.

[Solid D]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41KPB09mN3L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

[TJastal]

I'm back.. Just had to run some errands this afternoon.

Just cutting to the chase

So nobody here besides Portnoy and myself and a few others sees a problem whatsoever with Finley and Bonner as our opening day starting SG and C even though it was both those guys' lack of production that were the main reasons the spurs got steamrolled by the mavericks last year in the playoffs?

[portnoy1]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41KPB09mN3L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpgFYI - I'll be doing a booksigning later on today at the local Mcdonalds. Feel free to stop by and say hello. Thanx Solid D for spreading the word. I'll see to it you get a cut of the profits.

[Mel_13]

I'm back.. Just had to run some errands this afternoon.

Just cutting to the chase

So nobody here besides Portnoy and myself and a few others sees a problem whatsoever with Finley and Bonner as our starting SG and C even though it was both those guys' lack of production that were the main reasons the spurs got steamrolled by the mavericks last year in the playoffs?

Yep, you're the only ones who care, the only ones who can see the truth. The rest are sheep who will mindlessly accept whatever Pop provides.

[Mel_13]

FYI - I'll be doing a booksigning later on today at the local Mcdonalds. Feel free to stop by and say hello. Thanx Solid D for spreading the word. I'll see to it you get a cut of the profits.

Now that's funny in a good way:lol

[benefactor]

I'm back.. Just had to run some errands this afternoon.

Just cutting to the chase

So nobody here besides Portnoy and myself and a few others sees a problem whatsoever with Finley and Bonner as our opening day starting SG and C even though it was both those guys' lack of production that were the main reasons the spurs got steamrolled by the mavericks last year in the playoffs?
Wow...the playoffs start on Wednesday?

[portnoy1]

Yep, you're the only ones who care, the only ones who can see the truth. The rest are sheep who will mindlessly accept whatever Pop provides.
Were not coaches , players or anything like that. Were just fans, such as yourself who have opinions on our team. Nothing we do is going to change the way Pop does things.

[Solid D]

FYI - I'll be doing a booksigning later on today at the local Mcdonalds. Feel free to stop by and say hello. Thanx Solid D for spreading the word. I'll see to it you get a cut of the profits.

:tu What with all the Bonner-hate, I'm surprised you didn't like my turnstiles gallery earlier in this thread.

[Mel_13]

Were not coaches , players or anything like that. Were just fans, such as yourself who have opinions on our team. Nothing we do is going to change the way Pop does things.

Portnoy begins to understand.

This is good.

[portnoy1]

:tu What with all the Bonner-hate, I'm surprised you didn't like my turnstiles gallery earlier in this thread.
My bad, I probably didnt catch it. I was trying to read up on everyone's post. I sometimes dont check out the other stuff.

[portnoy1]

Portnoy begins to understand.

This is good.Understood that all along. Just givin' my opinions and I welcome others regardless of if their for or against.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm back.. Just had to run some errands this afternoon.

Just cutting to the chase

So nobody here besides Portnoy and myself and a few others sees a problem whatsoever with Finley and Bonner as our opening day starting SG and C even though it was both those guys' lack of production that were the main reasons the spurs got steamrolled by the mavericks last year in the playoffs?

Do you actually think Finley's lack of production in the playoffs hurt the Spurs more than Mason's lack of production did?

I didn't read the thread (yeah, my bad) but aren't you saying Mason should start? Mason was horrible in the postseason. So if we are picking "who was best in the playoffs" then Pop is right to start Fin over Mase.

As for Bonner ... I expect he might start for 15 games until McDyess gets acclimated.

[Fabbs]

Adjusted FG%
Finley 54%
Mason 48% big difference. :rolleyes
Bonehead 28% :rollin

Assists
Finley (doesn't know what one is and ordered by Popped to never attempt so excluded from stats)
Mason 2 per game
Bonner 0 (that's zero. how in the %$#@ do you have zero assists in 100 minutes of play?)

[duhoh]

Starting means nothing.
Just ask Manu about that.

Matt Bonner can start every single regular season game for all I care.
The Win/Loss numbers are all that matter, and right now we stand at 0/0.

the troof!

[SequSpur]

The spurs just sucked balls last year, no one in particular, the whole fuckin team did.

you guys don't know shit about basketball...do you?

[Solid D]

The spurs just sucked balls last year, no one in particular, the whole ****** team did.

you guys don't know **** about basketball...do you?

Give me the difference between a skip and a flare, Mr. big breeches.

[TJastal]

Do you actually think Finley's lack of production in the playoffs hurt the Spurs more than Mason's lack of production did?

I didn't read the thread (yeah, my bad) but aren't you saying Mason should start? Mason was horrible in the postseason. So if we are picking "who was best in the playoffs" then Pop is right to start Fin over Mase.

As for Bonner ... I expect he might start for 15 games until McDyess gets acclimated.

Mason was off his game defenitely in the playoffs, but it had more to do with Popovich's asinine "mad scientist" experiment of turning him into a point guard in the latter stages of the season.

Once upon a time when Mason was signed people said he would be a decent perimeter defender in addition to being a lethal marksman. We all surmised his offensive game was somewhat 1 dimensional plus plus he couldn't rebound to save his life. He didn't get to the line much if ever. But he could shoot the 3 and defend the perimeter. Which was good enough.

Finley on the other hand can't defend out on the perimeter anymore at his age. It's kind of insane to have him trying to match up with the league's best shooting guards on a nightly basis. He gets tired, quickly. Once that happens its very easy to tell because he starts badly bricking all his shots.

I'd put Manu in the starting lineup and sacrifice his 6th man role before I'd start Finley. I'd try George Hill as a combo guard before I'd start Finley. Hell, I'd even give Hairston a crack at it.

[senorglory]

Dunno.......

bezN2AEjf2co1looE2uSzs&NR=1
SpAv_ao7rBsKNBkfEojhXU&feature=related

HaHa. Point well made. The NBA... Everyone Cries!

[Kori Ellis]

Adjusted FG%
Finley 54%
Mason 48% big difference. :rolleyes
Bonehead 28% :rollin

Assists
Finley (doesn't know what one is and ordered by Popped to never attempt so excluded from stats)
Mason 2 per game
Bonner 0 (that's zero. how in the %$#@ do you have zero assists in 100 minutes of play?)

You can adjust all you want but Mason shot 37.5% from the field in the postseason and was embarrassing on D.

I get it -- you hate Finley/Bonner, so you ignore Mason "matadoring" everyone player he was guarding to the basket.

[Kori Ellis]

Mason was off his game defenitely in the playoffs, but it had more to do with Popovich's asinine "mad scientist" experiment of turning him into a point guard in the latter stages of the season.

Once upon a time when Mason was signed people said he would be a decent perimeter defender in addition to being a lethal marksman. We all surmised his offensive game was somewhat 1 dimensional plus plus he couldn't rebound to save his life. He didn't get to the line much if ever. But he could shoot the 3 and defend the perimeter. Which was good enough.

Finley on the other hand can't defend out on the perimeter anymore at his age. It's kind of insane to have him trying to match up with the league's best shooting guards on a nightly basis. He gets tired, quickly. Once that happens its very easy to tell because he starts badly bricking all his shots.

I'd put Manu in the starting lineup and sacrifice his 6th man role before I'd start Finley. I'd try George Hill as a combo guard before I'd start Finley. Hell, I'd even give Hairston a crack at it.

I don't think Mason's atrocious D/all around game in the postseason had anything to do with Pop's point guard experiment. And you can say whatever you want about perimeter defense, Finley was a better defender than Mason was against the Mavericks. (Not that that statement alone means much.)

Don't get me wrong, I think Mason (or Manu) should start and Finley playing time be very limited this year. I just think it's hilarious that people give Mason a pass for his postseason performance.

[TJastal]

I don't think Mason's atrocious D/all around game in the postseason had anything to do with Pop's point guard experiment. And you can say whatever you want about perimeter defense, Finley was a better defender than Mason was against the Mavericks. (Not that that statement alone means much.)

Don't get me wrong, I think Mason (or Manu) should start and Finley playing time be very limited this year. I just think it's hilarious that people give Mason a pass for his postseason performance.

To be honest, I can't remember how well Mason's defense was. If I had game tapes I would go back and watch but I don't. Perhaps someone who remembers better can enlighten.

Just looking at the box scores, it appears he was matched up with Antoine Wright to start the series, and Wright was relatively held in check. It was Josh Howard who went off for 25 in the 1st game. And that would appear to be Finley's guy. And for Finley to go 5-5 from behind the arc and have the worst (+/-) on the team (-20) doesn't speak volumes about his defense. Howard went on to have demolish the spurs in game 4 by going 11-13 with 28pts. Pop started Bruce Bowen along w/ Fin so I'm not sure which one got torched, but I would bet it was Finley again. Howard was a major factor in that series that the spurs could not slow down in any way, shape, or form.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

To be honest, I can't remember how well Mason's defense was. If I had game tapes I would go back and watch but I don't. Perhaps someone who remembers better can enlighten.

Just looking at the box scores, it appears he was matched up with Antoine Wright to start the series, and Wright was relatively held in check. It was Josh Howard who went off for 25 in the 1st game. And that would appear to be Finley's guy. And for Finley to go 5-5 from behind the arc and have the worst (+/-) on the team (-20) doesn't speak volumes about his defense. Howard went on to have demolish the spurs in game 4 by going 11-13 with 28pts. Pop started Bruce Bowen along w/ Fin so I'm not sure which one got torched, but I would bet it was Finley again. Howard was a major factor in that series that the spurs could not slow down in any way, shape, or form.

Mason was significantly worse than either Fin or Bonner in that series, and it had nothing to do with the PG experiment. Bonner actually played decent defense against Dirk, about as good as anyone we've had to put on him the last few years, but he didn't bury wide open shots. Mason got torched on defense by some white midget, didn't shoot well and was stagnating the offense when asked to run it. Fin got torched on defense against Howard but scored much better than the other two.

All in all, if you're giving Mason a pass, and then proceed to only use these 5 games as proof against Fin and Bonner, then you'll inevitable get people to respond, because this is quite ironical and shows it's just blind hatred, not basketball related factual point of view.

[Xevious]

Mason got torched on defense by some white midget...
From what I remember, JJ Barea killed us no matter who we put on him. Moving him to the starting lineup was one of the adjustments they made and we didn't have an answer.

BTW his listed height is 6'0", but I think he's a bit shorter than that.

[EmptyMan]

When you have Ginobili, Hill, & Blair coming in for the 2nd unit...it really doesn't matter.

[Fabbs]

Kori Ellis
You can adjust all you want but Mason shot 37.5% from the field in the postseason and was embarrassing on D.


Do you actually think Finley's lack of production in the playoffs hurt the Spurs more than Mason's lack of production did?
Do you actually think Masons lack of production in the playoffs hurt the Spurs more then Finley's lack of production?
Key game was Game 3, series tied 1-1.
Down 16 at halftime, that deficit increased to 26 midway thru the 3rd.
Mason was pulled, at the end of the 3rd the deficit had become 32.
I don't think Mason did any worse then any of the Spurs starters.
On offense, the 4 other starters, including Findawg, were 8 for 36.
Findawg and Bonehead combined to go 0-7, including 0-5 on treys.
Mase was 3-6.
Mase played a grand total of 16 minutes.

Game 4s loss Mase played a grand total of 17 minutes.
Findawg 36 minutes.

Kori Ellis
I get it -- you hate Finley/Bonner, so you ignore Mason "matadoring" everyone player he was guarding to the basket.
You don't get it. I hate how Pop uses Finley/Bonner. True, i would have neither on the roster post 2007. However, since they are, i would use them in a proper role and only when they are contributing. The 10 Finley minutes per game we have been hearing since summer 2005, and you never did answer me on the other thread why Finley got 47 minutes twice in two playoff game losses to Dallas while you had said when he signed quote "This gives the Spurs 4-5 wings."

[MaNu4Tres]

Mason was significantly worse than either Fin or Bonner in that series, and it had nothing to do with the PG experiment. Bonner actually played decent defense against Dirk, about as good as anyone we've had to put on him the last few years, but he didn't bury wide open shots. Mason got torched on defense by some white midget, didn't shoot well and was stagnating the offense when asked to run it. Fin got torched on defense against Howard but scored much better than the other two.

All in all, if you're giving Mason a pass, and then proceed to only use these 5 games as proof against Fin and Bonner, then you'll inevitable get people to respond, because this is quite ironical and shows it's just blind hatred, not basketball related factual point of view.

I couldn't have said it any better. This! +1...

[Fabbs]

From what I remember, JJ Barea killed us no matter who we put on him. Moving him to the starting lineup was one of the adjustments they made and we didn't have an answer.

BTW his listed height is 6'0", but I think he's a bit shorter than that.
Exactly. And whos idea to put Mason on Barea anyways?
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/pop-1.jpg

[Mel_13]

Fabbs is nothing if not predictable:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3762456&postcount=16

[ElNono]

LOL @ 1% Better despite Bonner being a 3 point shooter.

LOL @ reaching for regular season numbers to make a point, and get your ass kicked because Dice is *STILL* scores at a higher clip...

Now, could you address the part where they both play the PF/C position and we need PF/C production out of them? Like rebounding and interior defense?

You know, the part you've been conveniently ignoring because it completely trashes anything you say?

:lmao

[TJastal]

Exactly. And whos idea to put Mason on Barea anyways?
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/pop-1.jpg

hahaha

Did Pop ever think to use George Hill to neutralize Barea's quickness? This would have been much more logical than expecting Roger to keep up with that little waterbug.

Wait... oh right Pop had Hill chained to the bench for most of the series... :rolleyes

[portnoy1]

Somebody in this thread said Bonner Played the best defense on Dirk anyone on the Spurs had in a while. That not true, I'll agree Dirk didnt light anybody up. However the answer for playing Dirk was Fabulous Fabricio. He allows Dirk to catch and contest his shot. He also takes a step back, so that if Dirk drives he has an opportnuity to force him to the baseline instead of getting beat off the dribble.

[PUPPETMASTER]

pros and cons with him starting - the question should be why is he on the team?

[Mavs<Spurs]

this is what our starting lineup interior defense looks like right now:

http://i35.tinypic.com/315k901.png

what's fool's gold is to only see what they guy can give you on offense and completely ignore what he gives away on the other end. Even on a hot streaky shooting night like last night he put up 9 points, so it's not that he's really being a difference maker on offense either.
But my biggest beef with the guy is his lack of rebounding. If the idea is to help td be fresh and cut some slack to his knees, then grabbing two boards is simply unacceptable. Dice had 7. Blair had 10. Td had 10.
As far as starting him, well, my problem is when you play both him and finley. If they're not hot (unlike last night), you're simply giving up way too much on the defensive end.

The good news is: Last season, outside of hill, pop didn't have many alternatives when our d was leaking like a sieve. This season he can turn around and call up a few guys. So i hope that over time he'll see he's got better options now.

+ 1

[Mavs<Spurs]

pros and cons with him starting - the question should be why is he on the team?

I wish that there were a good, reasonable answer to that question.

The best I can do is that we must have some bad karma.

What a fucking joke !

Why for the love of all that is holy and right would we retain and play that man, esp starting him?

Teams with 2 bigs just feasted. Rasheed Wallace was right when he said just give the ball to whomever Bonner is guarding.

He is a huge defensive liability, size, athleticism, speed,..

And the rebounding (giving the other team second chance shots -- typically higher percentage shots than the first shot a team gets) is absolutely unacceptable.

He is exactly a one trick pony. And he can go cold as ice. He's not frequently in double figures in points. And that's not good since his one talent is on the offensive end.

While starting isn't as important as finishing, it does set the tone.

It is just a dumb move.

[TJastal]

*cue up angry Bonner rebuttals*

[Solid D]

(Roy) Hibbert enjoyed his matchup with Duncan.

"It was fun to get out there and play hard and get that many chances against a skilled center like Tim Duncan," Hibbert said.

:p:

[TJastal]

Popovich must be reading this forum. Bonner last minute scratch from the starting lineup. :rollin

If this last pre-season game shows anything, its Tim Duncan will need a tougher big than Matt Bonner to help out in the paint from the opening tipoff. If he's having troubles checking his own man (Roy Hibbert) how the hell is he gonna help Bonner too?

I expect McDyess to be the full time STARTER from here on out, as it should have been from the day he set foot in SA.

[poop]

im astounded and disgusted that there are still Bonner nutthuggers.

look, hitting 3 3's and getting 8-9 ppg DOES NOT make up for 0 defense, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 1 assist, and 2 rebounds.

I DONT WANT TO HEAR THIS 'HE SPACES THE FLOOR' BULLSHIT ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we have plenty of other guys who can shoot. the last TWO YEARS have shown this 'start bonner/plat him 30 minutes' to be a COMPLETE FAILURE.

A FUKIN CENTER IS SUPPOSED TO REBOUND AND DEFEND PERIOD

if Boner starts and get even 20 min a game our defense will suffer.

Bonner's role should be that of steve kerr when he was on the bulls and spurs. 5-8 min a game or spot plays when you need a 3. PERIOD

[Mel_13]

im astounded and disgusted that there are still Bonner nutthuggers.

look, hitting 3 3's and getting 8-9 ppg DOES NOT make up for 0 defense, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 1 assist, and 2 rebounds.

I DONT WANT TO HEAR THIS 'HE SPACES THE FLOOR' BULLSHIT ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we have plenty of other guys who can shoot. the last TWO YEARS have shown this 'start bonner/plat him 30 minutes' to be a COMPLETE FAILURE.

A FUKIN CENTER IS SUPPOSED TO REBOUND AND DEFEND PERIOD

if Boner starts and get even 20 min a game our defense will suffer.

Bonner's role should be that of steve kerr when he was on the bulls and spurs. 5-8 min a game or spot plays when you need a 3. PERIOD

Manu disagrees

[pjjrfan]

Manu disagrees

I read that. Obviously Manu is not speculating, since he is in on everything that is going on with the team and must know something about it. I thought last year that Bonner was a temporary move as a starter and that eventually Thomas would take over, but it never happened. Fab who began the season as the starter became a non factor also after his heart issues. But I agree having Bonner play any large amouts of time throughout the season does not bode well for the team's chances at another title.

[JustinJDW]

If we go into the Regular Season and Matt Bonner is actually starting over Antonio McDyess, I will kill someone. Seriously, what other Team in the League has a Starting Center than can't grab more than 4-5 rebounds a game and 0 blocks?:bang

[DAF86]

No team starting Matt Bonner (or playing him more than 15 minutes per game) will ever win a championship.

[TIMMYD!]

I thought we got 'Dice to play alongside Tim and take pressure off.

[poop]

no team starting matt bonner (or playing him more than 15 minutes per game) will ever win a championship.

this.

[Solid D]

im astounded and disgusted that there are still Bonner nutthuggers.

look, hitting 3 3's and getting 8-9 ppg DOES NOT make up for 0 defense, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 1 assist, and 2 rebounds.

I DONT WANT TO HEAR THIS 'HE SPACES THE FLOOR' ******** ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we have plenty of other guys who can shoot. the last TWO YEARS have shown this 'start bonner/plat him 30 minutes' to be a COMPLETE FAILURE.

A ***** CENTER IS SUPPOSED TO REBOUND AND DEFEND PERIOD

if Boner starts and get even 20 min a game our defense will suffer.

Bonner's role should be that of steve kerr when he was on the bulls and spurs. 5-8 min a game or spot plays when you need a 3. PERIOD

Stress much? During the pre-season, of the 7 Bigs remaining on the Spurs, Matt Bonner has gotten the 2nd fewest minutes per game, 2nd fewest total minutes.

Duncan 19.2 mpg (96 total min)
Blair 17.7 mpg (124 total min)
McDyess 17.0 mpg (102 total min)
Mahinmi 15.3 mpg (92 total min)
Haislip 13.2 mpg (79 total min)
Bonner 12.2 mpg (73 total min)
Ratliff 10.7 mpg (64 total min)

Don't worry about who starts as the 2nd Big on the floor. True, Bonner spaces the floor at BOTH ends but talk of going out and killing somebody or yourself is much ado about nothing.

[jag]

Yep