After Stimulus 49 of 50 States Have Lost Jobs

[DarrinS]

http://www.republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=150826


The table below compares the White House's February 2009 projection of the number of jobs that would be created by the 2009 stimulus law (through the end of 2010) with the actual change in state payroll employment through September 2009 (the latest figures available). According to the data, 49 States and the District of Columbia have lost jobs since stimulus was enacted. Only North Dakota has seen net job creation following the February 2009 stimulus. While President Obama claimed the result of his stimulus bill would be the creation of 3.5 million jobs, the Nation has already lost a total of 2.7 million – a difference of 6.2 million jobs. To see how stimulus has failed your state, see the table below.



http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedPhotos/highresolution/36219ded-c1a4-4ad4-9294-79c4236d5f57.jpg

[Winehole23]

Early call, wouldn't you say, Darrin?

What fraction of the stimulus money has been spent to date?

[Winehole23]

Are you really this dumb, or are you just trying to sway the people who are?

[Def Rowe]

Are you really this dumb, or are you just trying to sway the people who are?

:lol

[MannyIsGod]

Are you really this dumb, or are you just trying to sway the people who are?

Who needs the extra year?

[baseline bum]

Are you really this dumb, or are you just trying to sway the people who are?

ouch :rollin

[DarrinS]

The data is the data.


Did I actually post an opinion?

[spursncowboys]

Are you really this dumb, or are you just trying to sway the people who are?
This coming from a guy who posted a story about (the infamous) Oil companies trying to stop a (alleged)"recovery".

[Winehole23]

The data is the data.How Clintonesque.



Did I actually post an opinion?Was this an opinion?



To see how stimulus has failed your state, see the table below.

[Winehole23]

This coming from a guy who posted a story about (the infamous) Oil companies trying to stop a (alleged)"recovery".Um, actually the story was about how oil speculators, including a few well known TARP recipients, might be bidding up energy, and could derail the much ballyhooed return of GDP growth in a weak dollar environment.

[Winehole23]

It helps to understand what you're criticizing, before attempting a takedown. :coffee

[hope4dopes]

I think you meant of 57 state darrin

[MannyIsGod]

Man if there is one thing I"d love to see is the WH SnC head to head showdown.

[hope4dopes]

Early call, wouldn't you say, Darrin?

What fraction of the stimulus money has been spent to date? If you think this shit is working, go ask the people that aren't.

[exstatic]

In other news, after the plane crash 108 of 109 seats were burned to a crisp.

[Winehole23]

If you think this shit is working, go ask the people that aren't.I didn't say it was. But that doesn't make DarrinS's OP any less pea-brained.

[spursncowboys]

Man if there is one thing I"d love to see is the WH SnC head to head showdown.
You're so 'girl wearing a skirt as a top'.

[boutons_deux]

Darrin's msg: the stimulus and Magic Negro caused the job losses.

[Winehole23]

^^^That's a a stretch, albeit a rather small one. Anyone who falls for the inane framing of the data might believe the post hoc fallacy.

[Winehole23]

The banner does plainly encourage it.

[spursncowboys]

Over 6 million shy and in less than 70 working days, I doubt they can add even 200k jobs, so this chart should be considered credible.

[jman3000]

Are you really this dumb, or are you just trying to sway the people who are?

:lol

But seriously... they should honestly cut out about 1/3 of what's left, or at least use it in other capacities. I actually agreed with Boehner when he said unspent stimulus money should be used for that social security cost of living increase for seniors which they didn't get because of the economy.

Also, I'd like to add that they're doing a lot of aesthetic road repairs and such in other parts of the country... while 1604 from Culebra to Bandera is still a fucking 4 lane street. Not getting funds for that is complete shit.

[jman3000]

When I read a SnC post, I actually hear it in my head as the voice of Avery Johnson... or at least Don Harris' impression of AJ. It actually adds to the hilarity of his otherwise dull posts.

[SouthernFried]

U just posted the wrong stats, in the wrong room Darrin. Really, what can you expect, other than...

"oh, your so stupid."

"yeah, he's really stupid!!"

"lol, you sure got him with that stupid comment."

"yeah, good one!"

Nobody's denying the stats tho, are they?


The table below compares the White House's February 2009 projection of the number of jobs that would be created by the 2009 stimulus law (through the end of 2010) with the actual change in state payroll employment through September 2009

"but...but, it's way 2 early, Obama has 2 months left on his pledge...and besides, it's all Bush's fault. Darrin is a pea brain for even bringing up these numbers..."

and SIG

October 21, 2009

[DMX7]

Without the stimulus, everybody would have lost their job.

[exstatic]

The table below compares the White House's February 2009 projection of the number of jobs that would be created by the 2009 stimulus law (through the end of 2010) with the actual change in state payroll employment through September 2009
I thought I might put some color emphasis on the actual end target date, which is still more than 14 months away. You do understand that we are not yet in 2010, right?

"but...but, it's way 2 early, Obama has 2 months left on his pledge...and besides, it's all Bush's fault. Darrin is a pea brain for even bringing up these numbers..."

[Winehole23]

Without the stimulus, everybody would have lost their job.Eh, I wouldn't say that...

The stimulus isn't even spent yet.

That said, I agree with jman3000 that backloading the stimulus wasn't too smart.

Instead of having a trickle-down stimulus (H/T, Wild Cobra), it would have been better to have a small-business/unemployment/direct stimulus.

In fairness, Obama seems to be coming to this wisdom somewhat belatedly.

[Winehole23]

We are the golden goose. Main Street, not Wall Street.

[Winehole23]

Otoh:


when your house is on fire, you save what you love the most.

[Winehole23]

I thought I might put some color emphasis on the actual end target date, which is still more than 14 months away. You do understand that we are not yet in 2010, right?Arithmetic and alcoholism don't mix.

[Nbadan]

I'm beginning to think that Darrin is the ballon dad, isn't anyone else?

[Winehole23]

I didn't catch any of that. Got any memorable captures, Dan?

[ChumpDumper]

U just posted the wrong stats, in the wrong room Darrin. Really, what can you expect, other than...

"oh, your so stupid."

"yeah, he's really stupid!!"

"lol, you sure got him with that stupid comment."

"yeah, good one!"

Nobody's denying the stats tho, are they?


The table below compares the White House's February 2009 projection of the number of jobs that would be created by the 2009 stimulus law (through the end of 2010) with the actual change in state payroll employment through September 2009

"but...but, it's way 2 early, Obama has 2 months left on his pledge...and besides, it's all Bush's fault. Darrin is a pea brain for even bringing up these numbers..."

and SIG

October 21, 2009Do you think you should be taken seriously when you don't even know what year it is?

[SouthernFried]

Too funny.

Ok, let's make this simple for the folksies.

Here's what OBAMA told us, in his report on the "JOB IMPACT" of this joke of a "stimulus" bill.


First, the likely scale of employment loss is extremely large. The U.S. economy has already lost nearly 2.6 million jobs since the business cycle peak in December 2007. In the absence of stimulus, the economy could lose another 3 to 4 million more. Thus, we are working to counter a potential total job loss of at least 5 million.
As Figure 1 shows, even with the large prototypical package, the unemployment rate is predicted to be approximately 7.0%, which is well below the
approximately 8.8% that would result in the absence of a plan.

"but, but...the stimulus money hasn't all been spent yet."


The "stimulus" was projected to INCREASE jobs...RIGHT NOW. According to OBAMA's own Projections and figures you idiots.

They created the damn bill, they created the jobs projections...and they knew when the money was going to be spent, because they wrote the damn thing!

They predicted we'd have job growth right now, spending on their own schedule...not Darrin.

"but, but...your a pea brain for showing these figures. The stimulus hasn't all been spent yet."

...and so it goes.

[DarrinS]

Without the stimulus, everybody would have lost their job.

:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

they knew when the money was going to be spent, because they wrote the damn thing!They knew exaclty when each state legislature would pass their own bills to spend the money given to them and precisely when those states would release the funds?

You'll have to show me a link to that.

[Winehole23]

The "stimulus" was projected to INCREASE jobs...RIGHT NOW. According to OBAMA's own Projections and figures you idiotsLink?

[spursncowboys]

We had to vote on the stimulus. No one had time to read the actual bill. Now almost a year later, unemployment past 9%, and Obama missed his mark by 6 million. Come on back then, when he first said how many jobs they were going to create from this stimulus, everyone said it was too high. It wasn't based on any facts. I wasn't at this site, but can only imagine all the cheerleaders argueing how it will create jobs, keep jobs and get america away from bush's bad decisions.

"I don't want to go negative on Franklin Delano Roosevelt, but he didn't pass an economic deal in the first 100 days. We have passed the largest Recovery Act in the history of the country. "
Rahm Emanuel (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/rahmemanue409477.html)

Recovery Act huh.

[spursncowboys]

Link?
WHat exactly are you saying he did not say? The guy said there wasn't even enough time to read the bill, of course it was for the present time, and not down the road.

[fyatuk]

Just to be picky...


While President Obama claimed the result of his stimulus bill would be the creation of 3.5 million jobs, the Nation has already lost a total of 2.7 million – a difference of 6.2 million jobs. To see how stimulus has failed your state, see the table below.


That's not accurate. He's always said create or save. That includes jobs that would have been lost without it, really an unquantifiable number. He never said he would provide a net job increase.

That said, I agree the stimulus hurt a lot more than it helped. We should have been a lot further into recovery by now, but TARP and stimulus and bailouts have messed everything up.

[Winehole23]

It was never claimed that the stimulus would create jobs instantly.

[101A]

It was never claimed that the stimulus would create jobs instantly.


It was claimed that it would begin saving jobs instantly, however.

[Winehole23]

That claim is unmeasurable, but whatever.

[DarrinS]

That claim is unmeasurable, but whatever.


Absolutely. You can claim that jobs were "saved", but you can NEVER back this up with any objective evidence.


Saying jobs are "created" is also misleading. I'm sure a lot of administrative positions were "created" to handle the increases in people applying for unemployment, but these aren't NET jobs created, just "new" jobs.

[Heath Ledger]

They only time I ever pray is to the porcelain throne.

[Winehole23]

Absolutely. You can claim that jobs were "saved", but you can NEVER back this up with any objective evidence.Yet, your OP purports to do so.

[DarrinS]

Yet, your OP purports to do so.


And yet, there's no "jobs saved" column.

[admiralsnackbar]

And yet, there's no "jobs saved" column.

I don't suppose that would have anything to do with who made the chart, would it?

[admiralsnackbar]

It was claimed that it would begin saving jobs instantly, however.

I'm not convinced it hasn't. The Texas budget was a hot mess before Perry took the stimulus package.

http://www.slickrickperry.com/fiscal_irresponsibility

Who can really say what the stimulus has done for the private sector yet? We can assuredly say many in the public sector would have found themselves on the wrong end of the shears if budget shortfalls had remained in place.

[hope4dopes]

Without the stimulus, everybody would have lost their job.Well that's the whitehouse offical line, thank you so much for repeating it for us to hear for the umptenth time, some how it doesn't ring any truer now, than it did when, that bit of fear mongering was being shoved down our throats back then.

[hope4dopes]

It was never claimed that the stimulus would create jobs instantly. It was claimed it would prevent the jobless rate not to dip below well above their present state we find them at.I guess all those unwashed unemployed whiners are just tea baggers trying to hold Obama down.

[Winehole23]

It was claimed it would prevent the jobless rate not to dip below well above their present state we find them at.Then I suppose it won't be any trouble for you to back that up.

[101A]

I'm not convinced it hasn't. The Texas budget was a hot mess before Perry took the stimulus package.

http://www.slickrickperry.com/fiscal_irresponsibility

Who can really say what the stimulus has done for the private sector yet? We can assuredly say many in the public sector would have found themselves on the wrong end of the shears if budget shortfalls had remained in place.


Govt. spending money to create govt. jobs is kind of cherry-picking, donthcha think?

My 8 year old is clever enough to pull that off:

When I say I can't afford something...."well just write a check, Daddy!"

I'm sorry son, I'm not in government, I actually have to HAVE money in order to spend it.

[balli]

I think red states should be denied stimulus funds- and forced to pay back the money they've already spent. Then in a few months we can compare unemployment rates between the rational blue states and the worthless ass red states and see what's up.

They deserve far worse actually, but as long as the stimulus isn't doing anything for them, I'm sure they won't mind.

[DarrinS]

I think red states should be denied stimulus funds- and forced to pay back the money they've already spent. Then in a few months we can compare unemployment rates between the rational blue states and the worthless ass red states and see what's up.

They deserve far worse actually, but as long as the stimulus isn't doing anything for them, I'm sure they won't mind.



This, coming from someone living in the whitest city in the reddest state in the US.

[hope4dopes]

This, coming from someone living in the whitest city in the reddest state in the US.Well he likes black people he just doesn't want to live next to them, or have one marry his sister.

[admiralsnackbar]

Govt. spending money to create govt. jobs is kind of cherry-picking, donthcha think?

My 8 year old is clever enough to pull that off:

When I say I can't afford something...."well just write a check, Daddy!"

I'm sorry son, I'm not in government, I actually have to HAVE money in order to spend it.


What is it with you and the accusations of cherry-picking? :lol What am I cherry-picking, exactly? Anyway, cute story, but not appropriate unless your goal is simply to say you don't believe in credit, which I very much doubt you do if you've ever gone to college, bought a home, or spent Xmas with your children.

The government borrowed the money the same as you would have if you'd used a credit card. It invested in keeping the states in the black because a more-than-significant number of people are employed by the state, and because the loss of those jobs would have only contributed to the economic tailspin of the country. Long-term, the debt incurred was believed to be a lesser evil than a broken economy.

As for the government jobs and contracts with private companies that are (or were?) supposed to be created on top of that... it's premature to say they'll never exist, I think. But just speaking for Texas, I can say without pause that the stimulus helped all of us by just maintaining the employees it already kept . By the same token, however, I suspect that even if thousands of new public works projects were suddenly commissioned, the state would have a tough time filling them: so many of the unemployed are professionals, and probably consider ditch-digging beneath them (and will until they're desperate enough to have to take one, likely).

At any rate, I think the state stimuli weren't such a bad thing. The management of the TARP by both administrations, on the other hand... if people want to complain about the lack of jobs or the needless debt the Fed put us in, they should probably direct their ire there. That shit's done more to turn this country into a Mexico-style oligarchy than any single event in my lifetime.

[hope4dopes]

Then I suppose it won't be any trouble for you to back that up. Is that you Chimp...denial and rhetoric and saying it's Bush's fault aint going to work no more.But please if that's your agenda by all means continue with it.Come2010 I don't think dodging the issues, and telling the people to put their heads back in the sand, cause it's just to scary to deal with, is a strategy that will work, so by all means bury your head in the sand or....wherever you bury it, I think it will make things easier for eveybody.

[Winehole23]

That shit's done more to turn this country into a Mexico-style oligarchy than any single event in my lifetime.No knock on Mexico, but that does seem to be the direction we're headed politically and economically.

[Winehole23]

Is that you Chimp...You can't back it up, can you?

[spursncowboys]

No knock on Mexico, but that does seem to be the direction we're headed politically and economically.
Is the Russian Oligarchy a closer model to where we are heading?

[jman3000]

ummm.. in case you haven't noticed the US has been a de facto oligarchy since its inception.

[spursncowboys]

the never ending tarp slush fund (http://blog.heritage.org/2009/10/21/the-never-ending-tarp-slush-fund/)

from the foundry (http://www.google.com/reader/view/feed/http%3a%2f%2fblog.heritage.org%2ffeed%2f) by conn carroll
this afternoon president barack obama announced that his administration would shift tarp’s $700 billion bailout fund away from big financial institutions and toward small businesses through small banks (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/aleqm5i_wrl-yki0kvbhbacyztzsnxqlvad9bf66900).specifically, the treasury department (http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/documents/small_business_final.pdf) will offer capital from tarp, at a 3% rate, to viable banks with less than $1 billion in assets. These small banks must first submit a plan explaining how the capital will allow them to increase lending to small businesses.

But remember that tarp was originally sold to the american people as a way to protect the economy from the systemic risk posed by the collapse of firms that were too big to fail. Small businesses and small banks are by definition not too big to fail.

First under the bush administration and now under obama, tarp has become a slush fund (http://www.heritage.org/research/economy/wm2170.cfm) for pet political priorities. And as the new york times (http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/21/are-obamas-small-business-lending-proposals-also-about-health-care/) reports, this time it is even being used to influence votes in congress:
what is striking about the s.b.a. Initiatives is not just the size of the increases but whom they appear meant to impress. The new loan limits closely track increases proposed by olympia snowe, the senator from maine who is both the ranking republican on the senate small business committee and possibly the only republican considering voting for democratic-led health care reform.
…
at least one observer was not surprised. “who is the one senator they need on health care reform?” a lobbyist who has followed the issue asked, rhetorically. “what number do you think they’re going to pick?”
the obama administration has the authority to extend tarp until next october. But even members of his own party are growing tired of the lawlessness it has created. Rep. Dan lipinski (d-il) has called for tarp to be ended this december, telling usa today (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-10-20-tarp-bank-bailout_n.htm): “we don’t even know where the money went.”

[balli]

This, coming from someone living in the whitest city in the reddest state in the US.

And all the people in my state, including me since I live here, should suffer. My representatives didn't vote for the stimulus. Now according to you morons it isn't working. Obama should take Utah's money (every red state's money) and give it to the states that are progressive/grateful/not dominated by rightwing malcontents. I'd be happy knowing my fellow Utahns were worse off for it.

And you of course, being the intellectually bankrupt racist you are, can't make a distinction between race and ideology. What does race have to do with employment?

[Winehole23]

ummm.. in case you haven't noticed the US has been a de facto oligarchy since its inception.I noticed. But we haven't always been so overt about it.

[spursncowboys]

And all the people in my state, including me since I live here, should suffer. My representatives didn't vote for the stimulus. Now according to you morons it isn't working. Obama should take Utah's money (every red state's money) and give it to the states that are progressive/grateful/not dominated by rightwing malcontents. I'd be happy knowing my fellow Utahns were worse off for it.
Should the redstate's have to pay the bill of this money, or do you still think it comes from a tree?

[Winehole23]

Is the Russian Oligarchy a closer model to where we are heading?I don't know very much about Russia, SnC. Make the case.

[balli]

What the fuck are you trying to say? Should the redstate's (red state is) have to pay the bill of this money or do you think it comes from a tree? WTF?

[spursncowboys]

ummm.. in case you haven't noticed the US has been a de facto oligarchy since its inception.
How?

[spursncowboys]

I don't know very much about Russia, SnC. Make the case.
Oh sorry I thought you said "doesn't seem to be the direction we are heading".

[jman3000]

How?

How has it not? Do you even know what an oligarchy is?

There's a reason I said de facto oligarchy and not so much an outright one.

[admiralsnackbar]

No knock on Mexico, but it is the direction we're headed politically and economically.

Fixed

I worked for a US company in MX as a gov't contractor for several years and believe you me... we're on the fast track. Our politics are even starting to starkly resemble Mexico's thanks to the burgeoning class-warfare, with the GOP morphing rightward towards the PRI's fascist corporatism (only with a creepy Christian Fundamentalist twist), and the Dems gaining more and more momentum away from the PAN and towards the PRD's culture of universal entitlement and welfare-ism. I guess it's the curse of a two-party system... both parties egg each other on towards their respective ideological extremes in their quest for votes until they create the illusion that there is no middle ground, or that centrist moderation is "wishy-washy."

[admiralsnackbar]

ummm.. in case you haven't noticed the US has been a de facto oligarchy since its inception.

I guess the way I'm defining Mexican oligarchy is that the middle class is reduced to a tiny fraction of the population. If the US was once that way, it had stopped being so by the 50's.

[angrydude]

the govt. indirectly taxed every dollar holder for that stimulus money so the damage is done to the economy regardless of where its spent. Every job that wouldn't exist but for that stimulus money (all 5 of them) is just going to go away when that stimulus money goes away.

so what does it really matter what state gets what money?

[balli]

the govt. indirectly taxed every dollar holder for that stimulus money so the damage is done to the economy regardless of where its spent. Every job that wouldn't exist but for that stimulus money (all 5 of them) is just going to go away when that stimulus money goes away.

so what does it really matter what state gets what money?
It doesn't. But the OP's thesis was that the stimulus isn't saving jobs. I just supposed we could hypothetically test that theory by withholding stimulus funds from red states who didn't want it and don't think it's working, then compare their unemployment rates with the rest of nation's.


Every job that wouldn't exist but for that stimulus money is just going to go away when that stimulus money goes away.
And that is just ridiculously untrue. The stimulus preserved thousands of education jobs in my state. Probably hundreds of thousands across the nation. Those are teachers that were employed before the stimulus, that otherwise would have been fired, were it not for it.

The stimulus bailed out my state which didn't have money to pay the teachers it already employed. Assuming Utah can get its own financial cards in order, there is no reason those jobs won't continue to be preserved after the stimulus and recovery. They existed before it. And, they're vital.

[doobs]

Whether or not the stimulus has been a failure, the CEA chair is saying that it has already had its biggest impact on economic growth.

And then there's this

http://radioviceonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Unemployment-with-stimulus-graph.jpg

[SouthernFried]

It was never claimed that the stimulus would create jobs instantly.

First...look at the above chart. Look at 2009. Jobs have to be created for that projection to be accurate. This is 2009, they predicted jobs would be created... those jobs have not been created.

That dumbass projection, was a part of this equally dumbass Obama analysis of how great this stimulus is gonna be if we pass it.

http://otrans.3cdn.net/45593e8ecbd339d074_l3m6bt1te.pdf

I think even your pea brain should be able to figure this out...Jobs have to be created for unemployment figures to go down.

Are we having fun yet!! :D

[Wild Cobra]

It was claimed that it would begin saving jobs instantly, however.
Not only that, but that we had to act immediately.

Damn fools in DC.

They should all be fired that voted YES!

[ChumpDumper]

First...look at the above chart. Look at 2009. Jobs have to be created for that projection to be accurate. This is 2009, they predicted jobs would be created... those jobs have not been created.

That dumbass projection, was a part of this equally dumbass Obama analysis of how great this stimulus is gonna be if we pass it.

http://otrans.3cdn.net/45593e8ecbd339d074_l3m6bt1te.pdf

I think even your pea brain should be able to figure this out...Jobs have to be created for unemployment figures to go down.

Are we having fun yet!! :D
A greater number of jobs have to be created than lost to effect a net increase in jobs.

I don't know why I'm trying to explain this to someone who doesn't know what year this is.

[spursncowboys]

Romer: Impact of stimulus will level off
By JIM KUHNHENN (AP) – 7 hours ago
WASHINGTON — A top White House economist says spending from the $787 billion economic stimulus has already had its biggest impact on economic growth and will likely not contribute to significant expansion next year.
Christina Romer, the chair of President Barack Obama's Council of Economic Advisers, said Thursday that the $194 billion already spent gave a jolt to the economy that contributed to growth in the second and third quarters of the year. She told a congressional panel that by the middle of next year, the impact of the stimulus will level off. Romer said spending so far has saved or created 600,000 to 1.5 million jobs but warned that unemployment will remain high, above 9.5 percent, through the end of 2010.