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SnakeBoy
10-22-2009, 06:35 PM
10/22/09 London, England – Here at The Daily Reckoning we may hate the devil and renounce all his works…but we’re betting on him anyway…

Let’s begin with the headlines:

“Financials Slam Wall Street,” says a headline. The Dow fell 92 points. Makes us think the financials didn’t slam it very hard.

Gold rose. Oil rose. And the dollar sank below $1.50 per euro…another milestone.

As we reported yesterday, investors think the recovery is for real…and that it will boost up prices of commodities and stocks. The dollar, on the other hand, is chopped liver.

But we have a feeling that the devil is on the side of the dollar. Let’s us explain.

“How Wall Street Will Kill the Recovery,” is a headline at BusinessWeek.

Finally, everyone is catching on to how it works. The big banks take the feds’ money…then they speculate with it …or lend it back to the Fed for an easy 400 basis points of gain.

At Seeking Alpha, they’re talking about “the return of Japan’s zombie finance.” Over at The Wall Street Journal they’ve talking about America’s own “Zombie banks.”

But these monsters are only reacting to the jolt of juice given them by the Dr. Frankensteins at the Fed and the Treasury. It has become very unprofitable to hold cash; the feds are creating more of it by the boatload. You get a minimal rate of return on cash…while other assets go up. And the feds can’t stop…or change course…not without sinking the whole economy. They may talk about an ‘exit strategy.’ But the exits are blocked.

Remember cash is created when the feds “monetize the debt” by buying US Treasury bonds. In order to exit…that is, in order to reduce the monetary base…they’d have to sell those bonds back into the open market.

Are you kidding, dear reader? After being the single largest buyer on the planet? Imagine what will happen to the bond market when investors realize that the Fed is selling! It’s not going to happen. Instead, that $1 trillion increase in the monetary base is more or less permanent…and it’s eventually going to turn up as inflation.

The feds have no idea what is going on. They consistently misunderestimate the devil…the market…and the economy. And they consistently misoverestimate themselves.

In short, the old timers were right. To them, an economy was a natural thing…like an eco-system…or a language. It followed natural rules…rules that no man could change. It was like a living organism. It needed to breathe in and breathe out. And like all things under heaven, it was subject to moral laws. Do the wrong thing and you (an economy…as well as an individual) will pay the price. You don’t get what you want from markets…you get what you deserve.

This seemed intuitively correct to generations of economists. Not only that, it was proved correct time and time again. Each time people borrowed too much and spent too much money, they came a cropper.
You may ask: “How much is too much?” According to the record, compiled and analyzed by professors Reinhart and Rogoff, it’s impossible to say exactly. One nation can support public debt of 200% of its GDP (Japan comes to mind)…another cracks up at 50% (think of Argentina). A man like Donald Trump can carry millions in debt…another goes broke if you lend him 20 bucks.

(At one point Donald Trump was the poorest man in the world. His net worth was negative by 10s of millions (we don’t recall the figure). All over the world, hundreds of millions of people could have said: ‘I’m richer than Donald Trump.’ Even if you didn’t have a dime, you were richer than The Donald.)

So, how much is too much debt? It depends on what you use the money for…how much you have in assets…whether your earnings are shrinking or growing…and a number of other questions. But while the answers aren’t simple, the questions should still be asked: If you run up a debt, how are you going to pay it back? What will happen if you don’t pay it back?

A professor at the University of Basel, Peter Bernholz, thinks he has the answer. He studied instances of hyperinflation. He believes that you get hyperinflation any time the government spends 166% or more of what it receives in revenues. This should set off alarm bells. The US budget is now about 170% of tax receipts.

The feds can’t repay the record amounts they’re borrowing – not without a major political crisis. They’d have to cut spending and raise taxes so dramatically it would cause a backlash. The parasites would revolt. It would probably unseat the ruling party and break the repayment plan. Generally, people prefer inflation…or default…to actually paying their public debts.

One way or another, however, the devil debt will have his due. Somebody is going to pay – if not the borrower…then surely the lender. There’s a bullet out there. Someone has to take it.

But who believes it? The old economists are dead. John Maynard Keynes denied that debt mattered very much. Then, his successors forgot that it mattered. Dick Cheney told his party to stop worrying about it. And now a whole plethora of modern economists and politicians believe that the problem with today’s economy is that there is not enough of it. Debt that is. They think the government should borrow and spend even more. To them, the whole secret to a healthy economy is how much money people spend. Yes, it’s absurd, but that doesn’t make it unpopular. People like spending money. And they welcome economists who tell them that they’re doing the right thing.

Since Keynes, economists pretend the devil doesn’t exist. They believe they are not part of nature…controlled by natural laws. Instead, they want to take control of nature. And the only way they can get a grip on economies is to break the boom-bust business cycle. And you can’t do that unless you pretend that debt doesn’t matter.

The trouble with real markets is that they are always subject to human emotions and human calculations. It is a quality that George Soros describes as “reflexivity.” Markets act differently, depending on what people believe. And when the authorities try to turn their knobs and yank on their levers, it changes both what people believe and what they do – but not necessarily in the way the feds want.

It is much easier to manipulate speculative markets than it is to manipulate the real economy. Want to drive up prices? Just give speculators some free money to play with! Guarantee their debts! Bail them out of their stupid positions! That’s what the feds have done. And that’s why the banks – the recipients and conduits for the free money – are making profits. Goldman allocated $527,000, per employee, in compensation for the first 9 months of this year. An increase of 46% over last year.

Gold, oil, copper, stocks – all are in government-induced speculative booms. But the underlying economy is harder to move. In order to get consumers to spend, the feds have to put money into their hands…and raise prices so consumers will want to get rid of it, rather than hoard it. But that is proving very hard to do.

Why? Because of the debt. Consumers have to pay down their debt. They have to cut back. They have to spend less. So, the economy shrinks.

And now The Wall Street Journal is talking about another downdraft in the housing market. It could get “even uglier” it says. Why? The mortgage debt that still have to be reset and rescheduled. Apartment rents are falling as unsold units are put up for rent.

Sales at luxury stores go down as consumers work their way back down the price chain. Why? They have to spend less as they pay off their debts.

Yes, you can ignore debt…until you go broke!

SouthernFried
10-23-2009, 04:32 AM
This used to be common sense.

...which is not so common anymore.

and so it goes

101A
10-23-2009, 08:33 AM
It does seem to me that the author is dead-on his estimation of Keynsians, and I believe we have some of those on this board.

Any response?

boutons_deux
10-23-2009, 09:52 AM
Where were all you debt-haters when dubya and dickhead were running up $Ts in debt for their bogus GWOT and Iraq-war-for-oil.

Or is it only non-Repug debt that you guys hate?

Lebowski Brickowski
10-23-2009, 10:42 AM
Where were all you debt-haters when dubya and dickhead were running up $Ts in debt for their bogus GWOT and Iraq-war-for-oil.

Or is it only non-Repug debt that you guys hate?

This is why this forum sux. Oh, it's not just you b-d. It's in every single thread, w/in the first 5 posts. One just cannot have a thoughtful conversation here. The articles are the only reasons I keep checking.

DarrinS
10-23-2009, 10:49 AM
This is why this forum sux. Oh, it's not just you b-d. It's in every single thread, w/in the first 5 posts. One just cannot have a thoughtful conversation here. The articles are the only reasons I keep checking.


Don't pick on boutons_douche. He suffers from Tourette's syndome, causing his keyboard to have explosive diarrhea.

MannyIsGod
10-23-2009, 11:06 AM
It does seem to me that the author is dead-on his estimation of Keynsians, and I believe we have some of those on this board.

Any response?

I'm waiting for the author to explain to me how the United States is going to go "broke" and how National Debt is like the same as Consumer Debt. He also doesn't mention how debt would have grown without the stimulus and monetary policy that is being undergone right now.

Overall I think there is a huge misconception that Keynsian economics drives large debts. Economic recessions drive large debts with or without government intervention and this is something that is constantly overlooked or ignored.

Ok, if the dollar is chopped liver then what currency is better? The answer is none. The Euro sure isn't in a place to supplant the Dollar right now. Why doesn't the article point out that the chopped liver of the dollar is still better than any other currency out there?

Wild Cobra
10-23-2009, 11:32 AM
This used to be common sense.

...which is not so common anymore.

and so it goes
You forget. Liberals don't have common sense, and wouldn't even know what to do with it is it bit them in the ass.

ElNono
10-23-2009, 11:33 AM
It does seem to me that the author is dead-on his estimation of Keynsians, and I believe we have some of those on this board.

Any response?

Nobody likes debt. Everyone would love the economy to grow and flourish without owing anything to anybody. But reality doesn't work like that.
We arrive to the Keynes big-spending mode because we exhausted all other alternatives to try to get the economy reactivated (tweaking interest rates, money supply using the monetarism policies). What most people do not understand is that Keynes didn't advocate big-spending, big-debt all the time.
His economic policies were to be applied during times where the economy did not grow in order to prevent further shrinking and recession. Once the economy started growing again, then you could offset some of that growing by cutting spending and repaying debt then.
So the actual toxic part is not that we're spending a lot now in order to try to reactivate our economy. The toxic part is where we had an economy that was growing and flourishing and we didn't use those good times to pay off debt and reduce our spending.

Unfortunately, there's simply no other proven method to try to jumpstart an economy. Governments can only go for so long with increasing unemployment rates and what not until the constituency will start asking them to do something about it. Doing something about it costs money, and most everyone ends up on the spending spree.

boutons_deux
10-23-2009, 12:52 PM
"This is why this forum sux."

and, having been bitch slapped by the Greatest Bitch Slapper Ever, you don't answer the very legit question.

Lebowski Brickowski
10-23-2009, 03:35 PM
"This is why this forum sux."

and, having been bitch slapped by the Greatest Bitch Slapper Ever, you don't answer the very legit question.

Your question has nothing to do to with economics. Your question has nothing to do with ANYTHING at all, actually. It is borne from a dumbed-down political ideology that was given to you by your society and that you embrace even though you didn't design yourself. And you cling to it, terrified of real political discourse, using your political identity costume of 'Repub" or "Dem" as a shield and a weapon at the same time. But don't feel bad -- every thread on this forum turns out this way on the first page of posts (e.g. you're not the only one.)

To answer your retarded question -- I don't care who was running up the national debt. It could have been 'Repugs,' 'Demoncraps,' or the fucking chupacabra -- it's a stupid policy, especially if one subscribes to the ideology of classical liberalism -- you know, Jefferson, not Hamilton (in case you wanted to know what short-cut I personally take to help define myself politically.) :sleep

101A
10-23-2009, 03:43 PM
Your question has nothing to do to with economics. Your question has nothing to do with ANYTHING at all, actually. It is borne from a dumbed-down political ideology that was given to you by your society and that you embrace even though you didn't design yourself. And you cling to it, terrified of real political discourse, using your political identity costume of 'Repub" or "Dem" as a shield and a weapon at the same time. But don't feel bad -- every thread on this forum turns out this way on the first page of posts (e.g. you're not the only one.)

To answer your retarded question -- I don't care who was running up the national debt. It could have been 'Repugs,' 'Demoncraps,' or the fucking chupacabra -- it's a stupid policy, especially if one subscribes to the ideology of classical liberalism -- you know, Jefferson, not Hamilton (in case you wanted to know what short-cut I personally take to help define myself politically.) :sleep

Ouch.

That's gonna leave a mark (on many here).

boutons_deux
10-23-2009, 03:45 PM
My point, you missed, was that now Magic Negro is running up the debt trying to do something positive for the country, the Repugs hammer on their deficit screaming point, while they were silent as they ran up the debt doing something positive only for the oil companies and their own election chances (war president = re-elected president), and for the super-wealthy and corps.

What is the Repug/conservative option to spending Federal funds to replace the absent consumer spending?

How do Repug/conservative propose to get the economy moving again? or do they just Do Nothing and let it descend further, and let unemployment keeping rising past 20%.

btw, the Repugs must be thrilled at the unemployment rate because it's a great way to achieve their objective of cutting income tax revenues.

LnGrrrR
10-23-2009, 04:34 PM
Was Donald Trump really he best example to use in an article about debt? I mean, look at it. The article himself says he was in MASSIVE debt, and managed to work his way out of it... Then uses that example to say America can't handle more debt. Seems a non sequitur.

MannyIsGod
10-23-2009, 04:36 PM
I think the article is fairly terrible tbh. Its sensationalized half truths aimed an audience that wants to see their currency do better than the dollar even though its no where close to doing that.

SouthernFried
10-23-2009, 07:46 PM
My point, you missed, was that now Magic Negro is running up the debt trying to do something positive for the country.

Voted dumbest statement made in this forum until the next time this idiot posts.

Nbadan
10-23-2009, 08:18 PM
Ok, if the dollar is chopped liver then what currency is better? The answer is none. The Euro sure isn't in a place to supplant the Dollar right now. Why doesn't the article point out that the chopped liver of the dollar is still better than any other currency out there?

WOW...Many is 100% correct...the Euro has no real muscle behind it and cannot affect distribution and global production the way the dollar still can....there is no 'basket of currencies' politically stable enough to be trusted as a reliable reserve currency...that's why America is seen as a safer bet than in the currency investor's own country.this isn't the real hurt, the real hurt will come when we are paying more in taxes to cover the intrest on the debt..

byrontx
10-23-2009, 08:59 PM
Cost of Iraq:

$700,000,000,000

and I never heard any of these neo-cons bitching about the deficit then.

Lebowski Brickowski
10-23-2009, 09:24 PM
WOW...Many is 100% correct...the Euro has no real muscle behind it and cannot affect distribution and global production the way the dollar still can....there is no 'basket of currencies' politically stable enough to be trusted as a reliable reserve currency....

That's only because oil is still traded world-wide in USD. It isn't a given that it always will be. True, the Euro is week as long as it has no political unity behind it, but it still trades for 1.5 dollars today. Why are central banks long and heavy on gold this year?

Winehole23
10-23-2009, 09:27 PM
Could it have something to do with debt, deficit and the burgeoning US monetary base?

Lebowski Brickowski
10-23-2009, 09:31 PM
So many the USD is closer to chopped liver than not

CosmicCowboy
10-23-2009, 10:27 PM
Your question has nothing to do to with economics. Your question has nothing to do with ANYTHING at all, actually. It is borne from a dumbed-down political ideology that was given to you by your society and that you embrace even though you didn't design yourself. And you cling to it, terrified of real political discourse, using your political identity costume of 'Repub" or "Dem" as a shield and a weapon at the same time. But don't feel bad -- every thread on this forum turns out this way on the first page of posts (e.g. you're not the only one.)

To answer your retarded question -- I don't care who was running up the national debt. It could have been 'Repugs,' 'Demoncraps,' or the fucking chupacabra -- it's a stupid policy, especially if one subscribes to the ideology of classical liberalism -- you know, Jefferson, not Hamilton (in case you wanted to know what short-cut I personally take to help define myself politically.) :sleep

Well said.

I am disgusted by both parties.

but for the most part I am disgusted by my fellow Americans.

The balance is about to tip. There are going to be more free loaders like Boutons and Manny riding in the wagon than there will be producing members of society to pull it.

It can't possibly last the way it is going.

SnakeBoy
10-24-2009, 01:08 AM
I think the article is fairly terrible tbh. Its sensationalized half truths aimed an audience that wants to see their currency do better than the dollar even though its no where close to doing that.

You really zeroed in on the chopped liver line. It just says stocks and commodities are going up and the dollar is getting clobbered. Hard to argue with what is happening right now. Did you not read the next sentence?


But we have a feeling that the devil is on the side of the dollar.

Winehole23
10-24-2009, 03:14 AM
It can't possibly last the way it is going.On the contrary. Short of annihilation or complete social disintegration, there is no rational limit to how much worse things can get.

Wild Cobra
10-24-2009, 10:07 AM
Cost of Iraq:

$700,000,000,000

and I never heard any of these neo-cons bitching about the deficit then.
I cannot s[peak for any neocons that might be here, but as a conservative. I thing we were right to go in and spend that money.

I don't know if $700 billion is accurate, but remember, that's over 6-1/2 years now. The democrats in congress and president are trying to enact a health care plan that will be between a $1 trillion to $2 trillion deficit annually!

I have said it before. The only time we should have deficit spending is during war or recession. The government should never plan to keep us in deficit. We should pay the debt down during the good years.

MannyIsGod
10-24-2009, 12:41 PM
I cannot s[peak for any neocons that might be here, but as a conservative. I thing we were right to go in and spend that money.

I don't know if $700 billion is accurate, but remember, that's over 6-1/2 years now. The democrats in congress and president are trying to enact a health care plan that will be between a $1 trillion to $2 trillion deficit annually!

I have said it before. The only time we should have deficit spending is during war or recession. The government should never plan to keep us in deficit. We should pay the debt down during the good years.

The health care plan will save money - try again.

MannyIsGod
10-24-2009, 12:48 PM
You really zeroed in on the chopped liver line. It just says stocks and commodities are going up and the dollar is getting clobbered. Hard to argue with what is happening right now. Did you not read the next sentence?

Did you not read the rest of the article? That line didn't mean the devil as a good thing.

MannyIsGod
10-24-2009, 12:50 PM
That's only because oil is still traded world-wide in USD. It isn't a given that it always will be. True, the Euro is week as long as it has no political unity behind it, but it still trades for 1.5 dollars today. Why are central banks long and heavy on gold this year?

No, its only becasue countries back their currencies with the US dollar. Gold may seem more attractive and it probably is but its a very limited commodity and you're not going to see it become the world's reserve currency because of the very thing that makes it valuable - its limited quantity.

No other currency is even close to being the world's reserve currency. The euro got pounded harder than the dollar this past fall.

MannyIsGod
10-24-2009, 12:58 PM
Not to mention that if you ever want some of those trade deficits lowered appreciation of other currencies against the dollar is a damn good thing.