Manu or Blair ?

[Spurgio]

A friend and I were discussing this a few days ago.

If manu returns to his old self and Blair continues to play consistently the way he has been playing in the preseason, should both of them be coming of the bench ? Pop initially put manu on the bench to ignite the second unit, something that blair has shown is capable of doing.


My first post. :downspin:

[barbacoataco]

I guess we'll see. I still like the idea of Manu coming off the bench.

[Dex]

Yes.

I've always believed that Manu off the bench is more efficient. He's instant offense against the other teams second unit, and has more shots to go around when Tim and Tony aren't dominating the ball with the pick & roll offense. Plus it's an easier way to save his legs for the end of the game, and monitor his minutes. If Manu starts, you have to find a way to limit his time during the heart of the game.

For Blair, he'll probably come off the bench just because he's a rookie and like it or not, he's not ready to come out at the start of the game and hold down the fort against other teams starters. Not yet, anyways. As with Manu, it's also easier to keep his minutes in check coming off the bench, since his one major question mark happens to be how his knees will hold up to the season. The Spurs have enough depth in the frontcourt now to save Blair for the playoffs and let him get acclimated.

However, if he can still come out and keeps putting up double-doubles in limited minutes, I think Pop has to at least consider moving him up.

Welcome to the forum. :toast

[PDXSpursFan]

I always believe that the best 5 players on a team should start and set the tone early on the game - that would be TD, TP, Manu, RJ & McDyess.
Blair is perfect to provide energy coming off the bench.

[RedRaider]

I would like Manu coming off the bench.

[TJastal]

I'm really leaning toward Manu in the starting lineup for a few reasons.

First off, it would mean more bench time for Finley.

Secondly, it means George Hill would be directing the 2nd unit, as opposed to Manu. This will help the youngster learn that much faster and gain confidence. RMJ and Hill played well together too last year. This might even mean more bench time for Finley, an added bonus.

Thirdly, it means Manu can relax more and take it easier on those bad wheels of his.

I'd love to see a bench unit of Hill, RMJ, Hairston/Finley, Blair, & Ratliff/Bonner

[TJastal]

Yes.

I've always believed that Manu off the bench is more efficient. He's instant offense against the other teams second unit, and has more shots to go around when Tim and Tony aren't dominating the ball with the pick & roll offense. Plus it's an easier way to save his legs for the end of the game, and monitor his minutes. If Manu starts, you have to find a way to limit his time during the heart of the game.

For Blair, he'll probably come off the bench just because he's a rookie and like it or not, he's not ready to come out at the start of the game and hold down the fort against other teams starters. Not yet, anyways. As with Manu, it's also easier to keep his minutes in check coming off the bench, since his one major question mark happens to be how his knees will hold up to the season. The Spurs have enough depth in the frontcourt now to save Blair for the playoffs and let him get acclimated.

However, if he can still come out and keeps putting up double-doubles in limited minutes, I think Pop has to at least consider moving him up.

Welcome to the forum. :toast

Haha.. we each have opposing viewpoints. You say Manu off the bench would be easier on him, and I say Manu in the starting unit would be.

In my estimation, its not so much about the # of minutes but the fatigue factor/exertion. If Manu is playing w/ the starters he's going to be doing less heavy lifting then if he's expected to run the 2nd unit.

[Rebounds]

Blair could ignite a large portion of the Petrified Forest no matter if starter or off the bench; he's grabbing minutes like his rebounds but Manu, I would still like him to lead the 2nd unit, the 1st couple of months anyway.

[Agloco]

Both off the bench. G Hill at the point, plug in two cardboard cutouts......... :hat

[Interrohater]

Both off the bench. G Hill at the point, plug in two cardboard cutouts......... :hat
:tu
Come on you guys, it works this way, with Manu coming off the bench. Pop has proven that. He's still gonna be in there to finish off the games, during crunchtime.

And seriously, stop drinking the "I hate Finley" kool-aid. He's a smart player who still hits his open shots and has the strength to not get backed down by opposing players. Yes, he's old, yes, he's slower, no, he's not athletic anymore, no, he's not Bruce Bowen. We all know his weaknesses, but he's not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Mel_13]

Welcome to the board:toast

I'm with Agloco:

Manu+Hill+Blair+2 other Spurs

[Allanon]

It's been cliche'd to death but it's true...it's not who starts but who finishes.

If those two are playing up to their abilities, I'd like to see Tim/Tony/Manu/RJ/Blair to finish games....doesn't matter to me who is starting the game. Being a starter is more about ego and confidence building than it is about effectiveness.

[TJastal]

:tu
Come on you guys, it works this way, with Manu coming off the bench. Pop has proven that. He's still gonna be in there to finish off the games, during crunchtime.

And seriously, stop drinking the "I hate Finley" kool-aid. He's a smart player who still hits his open shots and has the strength to not get backed down by opposing players. Yes, he's old, yes, he's slower, no, he's not athletic anymore, no, he's not Bruce Bowen. We all know his weaknesses, but he's not going anywhere anytime soon.

I disagree.

It's time to let George Hill run the 2nd unit and give Manu's feet a break at the same time. Its been proven that Hill has developed chemistry with some of the newer guys on the team already. I'm not so sure him and Manu are going to co-exist successfully. Because if Manu is in that 2nd unit he will take over and run the offense. If he is in the 1st unit he is going to defer to Tim and Tony. Let him take over in the 4th quarters of close ballgames. That's all we really need from him at this point.

I'm don't hate Finley, in fact I love him. I just think he's... well.... in your words: old, slow, non-athletic. Guy has logged well over 40,000 minutes of PT in his career. He's been a remarkably consistent player, but asking him to be a starter at this point in his career is stupid. He would be a great situational player for Pop to have on the bench however.

[TMTTRIO]

I think if we want Manu to be healthy at the end of the year I think it's about time that we start him especially now that we have some guys that can bring that energy straight from the bench and now George Hill can really run the second unit and it'll give him more confidence. If Manu starts at least he won't excert himself as much right away on the offensive side and that could probably save his legs and keep him healthy. If he comes off the bench he's going to go from 0-100% right away and there would be a bigger risk that he gets injured. He's even said that it's easier when he starts because it allows the game to come to him instead of knowing that when he comes off the bench he has to produce right away even if it meant getting hurt. Besides if this is Manu's last year with the Spurs someone else is going to have to take over and bring the spark off the bench.

[TJastal]

I think if we want Manu to be healthy at the end of the year I think it's about time that we start him especially now that we have some guys that can bring that energy straight from the bench and now George Hill can really run the second unit and it'll give him more confidence. If Manu starts at least he won't excert himself as much right away on the offensive side and that could probably save his legs and keep him healthy. If he comes off the bench he's going to go from 0-100% right away and there would be a bigger risk that he gets injured. He's even said that it's easier when he starts because it allows the game to come to him instead of knowing that when he comes off the bench he has to produce right away even if it meant getting hurt. Besides if this is Manu's last year with the Spurs someone else is going to have to take over and bring the spark off the bench.

Exactly.

[Spurlady]

I'm with the others who like the second unit combo of Hill, Manu and Blair with 2 others--maybe Mason and another big. That's pretty potent offense for a second unit, although defense is a question mark. And Hill will be running the offense this year not Manu so it doesn't put additional stress on Manu. In my opinion, Manu starting would be a waste unless Jefferson comes off the bench. Only one person can shoot at a time. There's no reason to put Tim, Tony, Manu and RJ out there at first. Come fourth quarter sure, although I hope we have such a big lead in the 4th that they aren't needed.

[TJastal]

I'm with the others who like the second unit combo of Hill, Manu and Blair with 2 others--maybe Mason and another big. That's pretty potent offense for a second unit, although defense is a question mark. And Hill will be running the offense this year not Manu so it doesn't put additional stress on Manu. In my opinion, Manu starting would be a waste unless Jefferson comes off the bench. Only one person can shoot at a time. There's no reason to put Tim, Tony, Manu and RJ out there at first. Come fourth quarter sure, although I hope we have such a big lead in the 4th that they aren't needed.

Oh, its just so easy to say "Yah, George will run the offense.".isn't it? In reality, Hill is going to take a backseat and defer to Manu, which is going to take away his confidence and aggressiveness. Add to the fact that George and Manu haven't played much together due to Manu's injuries, and this pairing has a high risk of not working.

But knowing Pop, I'd say its probably a foregone conclusion that we're going to see Manu off the bench to open the season so you'll get your wish (unfortunately)

[Bukefal]

Manu off the bench, as for Blair also off the bench, but he could be a starter eventually.

Anyways, welcome to the forum!

[AFBlue]

The most obvious answer is...whatever works best.

There are some SIGNIFICANT new pieces that have been added to this team in RJ, Dice and Blair. Balancing those new talents with the current roster is going to be Pop's major challenge...and it extends beyond the "Manu as starter or sixth man" question.

Between Tim, Tony, Manu, RJ, Blair and Hill the Spurs should be able to put a lineup together with at least two, if not three, players on the court with the ability to create for themselves or others at all times.

Which of those players work best together remains to be seen...but it's a great problem to have.

[TJastal]

I totally disagree with your take, but...

Anyways, welcome to the forum!

[coyotes_geek]

Blair's definitely coming off the bench. As for Manu, we'll see. Personally I'd start him, but it's not that big a deal. Manu will contribute whenever he gets minutes.

[TJastal]

Blair's definitely coming off the bench. As for Manu, we'll see. Personally I'd start him, but it's not that big a deal. Manu will contribute whenever he gets minutes.

"He's even said that it's easier when he starts because it allows the game to come to him instead of knowing that when he comes off the bench he has to produce right away even if it meant getting hurt"

I think it is a big deal, if Manu has said anything along these lines.

[AFBlue]

The most obvious answer is...whatever works best.

There are some SIGNIFICANT new pieces that have been added to this team in RJ, Dice and Blair. Balancing those new talents with the current roster is going to be Pop's major challenge...and it extends beyond the "Manu as starter or sixth man" question.

Between Tim, Tony, Manu, RJ, Blair and Hill the Spurs should be able to put a lineup together with at least two, if not three, players on the court with the ability to create for themselves or others at all times.

Which of those players work best together remains to be seen...but it's a great problem to have.

I feel like I gave a cop-out answer, so I'll follow up with what I think based on what I've seen...

Tony and Tim play a great two-man game and it is extremely effective. And Tony has really grown into his role as a drive-and-dish guy. I think Manu should come off the bench to provide that spark. Manu and Blair together would be a rediculous combination of energy and awesomeness off the bench.

[TJastal]

I feel like I gave a cop-out answer, so I'll follow up with what I think based on what I've seen...

Tony and Tim play a great two-man game and it is extremely effective. And Tony has really grown into his role as a drive-and-dish guy. I think Manu should come off the bench to provide that spark. Manu and Blair together would be a rediculous combination of energy and awesomeness off the bench.

So your willing to risk him injuring himself to have this "rediculous combination of energy and awesomeness off the bench"?

[AFBlue]

So your willing to risk him injuring himself to have this "rediculous combination of energy and awesomeness off the bench"?

I don't see how I could be "willing" to do anything except watch the Spurs employ whatever lineup they think is most effective and enjoy the outcome. I'm not actually Greg Poppovich.

The Spurs FO and coaching staff have assembled the most talented and deep team in the history of their franchise...I trust them to figure out the best lineup (starting or otherwise) that capitalizes on the strengths of those players.

As far as keeping players healthy...I think the FO and staff have a pretty good feel for everyone of these players, especially Manu. The only exception may be how they handle Blair.

[phxspurfan]

It's been cliche'd to death but it's true...it's not who starts but who finishes.

If those two are playing up to their abilities, I'd like to see Tim/Tony/Manu/RJ/Blair to finish games....doesn't matter to me who is starting the game. Being a starter is more about ego and confidence building than it is about effectiveness.

I don't think Blair has the experience necessary to finish games. I'd say our end of game lineup is Tim/Tony/Manu/RJ/McDyess.


But for the OP, I think Manu still is a bench player and finisher because he can't play starter minutes without breaking down physically. At least until the playoffs unless we want to burn him out before the important games.

[xellos88330]

I am expecting Pop will be toying with the lineup a lot early on. It is like a kid opening up a toy box full of great toys. It will take a while to find out which toys are better together for the game he wants to play.

I am not giving my answer until Pop answers it for me. :toast

[TJastal]

I don't see how I could be "willing" to do anything except watch the Spurs employ whatever lineup they think is most effective and enjoy the outcome. I'm not actually Greg Poppovich.

The Spurs FO and coaching staff have assembled the most talented and deep team in the history of their franchise...I trust them to figure out the best lineup (starting or otherwise) that capitalizes on the strengths of those players.

As far as keeping players healthy...I think the FO and staff have a pretty good feel for everyone of these players, especially Manu. The only exception may be how they handle Blair.

Your not Gregg Popovich? Damnit! .. I bet your Finley aren't you?.. scheming for that starting spot.. I knew it! :p:

[TJastal]

I don't think Blair has the experience necessary to finish games. I'd say our end of game lineup is Tim/Tony/Manu/RJ/McDyess.


But for the OP, I think Manu still is a bench player and finisher because he can't play starter minutes without breaking down physically. At least until the playoffs unless we want to burn him out before the important games.

Okay, let me explain this one more time.

Its really not about minutes so much. It's about the effort and exertion. Your asking Manu to carry the 2nd unit PLUS close out games. This is going to increase risk of an injury much faster than Manu playing a few minutes more here and there with the starters.

[phxspurfan]

Okay, let me explain this one more time.

Its really not about minutes so much. It's about the effort and exertion. Your asking Manu to carry the 2nd unit PLUS close out games. This is going to increase risk of an injury much faster than Manu playing a few minutes more here and there with the starters.

1. Because George Hill, Mason, Blair, McD and Findog won't ever score off the bench.
2. Because every time Manu comes in with the bench he has to carry them, ie dribble around, penetrate and kick or step back for 3.

3. Because every time Manu is in at the end of the game (especially with 4 all stars on the court in RJ, TP, TD and McD), only HE will be responsible for shouldering the entire offensive and defensive load.

Write a book, retire, and live off the royalties.

[PUPPETMASTER]

FOR THIS YEAR

manu = starter
blair = bench

[Zero_Twilight]

A friend and I were discussing this a few days ago.

If manu returns to his old self and Blair continues to play consistently the way he has been playing in the preseason, should both of them be coming of the bench ? Pop initially put manu on the bench to ignite the second unit, something that blair has shown is capable of doing.


My first post. :downspin:

Sorta like this (http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/12136163)....

or this (http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/12136537)...

:flag:

[TIMMYD!]

Sorta like this (http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/12136163)....

or this (http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/12136537)...

:flag:

The Blair block is badass and I love the way Manu just stands there after he makes the 3.

[Zero_Twilight]

The Blair block is badass and I love the way Manu just stands there after he makes the 3.

If you scroll down the site, I have a few more videos. :toast

[Riverwalkman]

Manu with Blair coming off the bench will be good, they've already showed some chemistry in the game vs Thunder. Manu is a great playmaker, Blair is a beast under the rim, this kind of combination always works.

[Spursmania]

Sorta like this (http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/12136163)....

or this (http://www.easports.com/media/play/video/12136537)...

:flag:


very cool:toast

[CGD]

Blair is awesome, but lets be realistic about our expectations in term of his playing time.

With that said: Hill, Manu, Fin, Blair/Theo (situational), and Dice is a SICK 2nd unit. Our second unit alone is going to win us 10 games this year.

[EmptyMan]

Manu with Blair coming off the bench will be good, they've already showed some chemistry in the game vs Thunder. Manu is a great playmaker, Blair is a beast under the rim, this kind of combination always works.

This. Manu and Blair will be playing together. Blair is not a pussy (under/around the basket) like the past Spurs big men. He has already shown in the pre-season (and summer league with Hill) he will easily be able to capitalize off Manu's exceptional passing.

[TJastal]

This. Manu and Blair will be playing together. Blair is not a pussy (under/around the basket) like the past Spurs big men. He has already shown in the pre-season (and summer league with Hill) he will easily be able to capitalize off Manu's exceptional passing.

Well even if he can't capitalize from Manu's passes, its probably a sure bet he's going to capitalize off of all of Manu's missed shots.

(At least till Manu get his conditioning down) :D

[BOHOLANO#21]

Manu off the bench is blatantly obvious. Blair off the bench is also, because I think he can eventually be in great tandem with Manu on the pick and roll. Blair has a huge wingspan and good hands, he and Manu should be very effective playing together.
+1. love that play last night, manu to blair in a pick and roll. blair lays it in, he missed but followed it up for two. i think blair intentionally missed it to get more rebounds. damn that beast:toast

[pjjrfan]

Im excited to see Manu, Blair and Hill together. I think if we have learned anything about Manu and his style is that he leads and he doesn't need to dominate the ball to do that. He will get everyone on the floor involved. Manu is still a major force when he is healthy I am so surprised how people look at Manu as a player with eroding skills, he was hurt, Manu IMO is a true superstar, a guy who makes everyone around him better, and guys like him don't come around very often. Any combination the Spurs throw out there will benefit having Manu with them, but the prospect of these 3 together really excites me.

[urunobili]

Manu should start until February...

[Mel_13]

Manu should start until February...

You forgot the:stirpot:

[urunobili]

You forgot the:stirpot:

:lol IMO he just needs to get used to play with RJ, TP and TD again LOTS of minutes so they all get familiar with each other... :downspin:

[Manufan909]

This. Manu and Blair will be playing together. Blair is not a pussy (under/around the basket) like the past Spurs big men. He has already shown in the pre-season (and summer league with Hill) he will easily be able to capitalize off Manu's exceptional passing.

Is that James Howlett in your sig?

[Flux451]

It's been cliche'd to death but it's true...it's not who starts but who finishes.

If those two are playing up to their abilities, I'd like to see Tim/Tony/Manu/RJ/Blair to finish games....doesn't matter to me who is starting the game. Being a starter is more about ego and confidence building than it is about effectiveness.

I like that up till the part of Blair. He is not proven yet. But if he becomes clutch then why not. McDyess is the other big I would expect to see at the end of the game.

[TIMMYD!]

'Dice will finish games for sure.

[Manufan909]

I like that up till the part of Blair. He is not proven yet. But if he becomes clutch then why not. McDyess is the other big I would expect to see at the end of the game.

Allonon doesn't want our best bigs to end the game, I wonder why?:p:

Oh, and Blair starting is much more of a pickle than Manu starting. With Manu, there's already Tony, Mason/Fin, and RJ starting, as well as Hill, Bogans/Mason, Fin/Hairston in the 2nd unit.

But with Blair, it is WAYYYYYY more complex. Assuming Bonner is the 4th big, I think it would be best to start him alongside TD, and if he hasn't made a couple shots or rebounded or gotten lit up, switch in Dyess. And then eventually bring in Blair. But if Dice starts, a Bonner/Blair lineup looks like a disaster. Even if Dice starts, Pop could work some rotation magic so that if one of Blair/Bonner is on the floor, they aren't together. If Ian can show something, I could see him starting on occasion, like against a bigger team. And if Timmy is resting, I want Blair as the starting PF, or Dice and Theo/Ian if it's a big team.