Death Penalty? Yay or Nay?

[AussieFanKurt]

I started one on God and had some very good thoughts arise from it.
So I thought, what are thoughts on the Death Penalty?
We dont have it anywhere in Australia although there are some cases where I wish it could be used but anyway
What are your thoughts?

[Def Rowe]

In cases where there's no doubt a person is guilty of murder then I'm for it. I also think family members of victims should have a say in whether a perpetrator lives or dies.

[AussieFanKurt]

yeah we had a case here where i man shot 37 people and was definitely him... he should be dead in my opinion. but there can be no doubt

[boutons_deux]

For every inarguably guilty one, there's probably one that isn't guilty because the justice system (police, prosecutors, judges, lawyers, experts, forensic labs) is too often corrupt and/or incompetent.

Err on the side of caution, no death penalty.

[101A]

No.

[admiralsnackbar]

Nay.

[Winehole23]

No.

[Winehole23]

Romans 12:19

[I. Hustle]

I had an uncle that was killed in his driveway for a bag of receipts and a cousin that was killed just sitting on another family members couch watching a Spurs game. Neither one was involved in any kind of gang or drug stuff, in fact my cousin had just moved back from Indiana.
So am I all for the death penalty? YES! They should fry those bastards. The excuse that both groups made was "I made a mistake"! A MISTAKE?!

[Yonivore]

Romans 12:19
Quickly followed by Romans 13:1-4.

"Let every person be subject to governing authority...for it is God’s servant for your good. But if you do what is wrong, you should be afraid, for the authority does not bear the sword in vain! It is the servant of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer."

Context.

So, taken together, the lesson is this:

Don't take personal vengeance, that's God's job and He has instituted governing authorities to mete out justice.

[Winehole23]

Sure. I know where I stand.

[spurster]

In theory, yes. In practice, no, because overzealous police and prosecutors convict the innocent a little bit too often.

[Bender]

I say yes. At least in cases where there is absolutely no doubt (witnesses, confession, guy is a genuine whacko, whatever).

[FromWayDowntown]

I am fundamentally opposed to the death penalty for a variety of reasons, the primary among them being my continuing doubt that every criminal conviction is factually correct (i.e., the accused is actually the person who committed the crime), no matter the procedural safeguards that might exist to suggest otherwise. The fact of recent stories suggesting (or demonstrating) that not all convictions can be substantiated only fuels my belief in an anti-capital punishment position. A mistaken conviction can be undone, even at some cost to the falsely imprisoned individual, if the accused remains in prison; executing an accused who is later shown to have been innocent is among the most heinous things our society can do. If it's happened once, it's happened too often.

[Winehole23]

That's nicely put, FWD. :tu

[Sancha]

I am for it but only because I like my freedom and Chuy gets out in a couple of years.

[Blake]

ethically, yay

economically, nay

[Yonivore]

I am fundamentally opposed to the death penalty for a variety of reasons, the primary among them being my continuing doubt that every criminal conviction is factually correct (i.e., the accused is actually the person who committed the crime), no matter the procedural safeguards that might exist to suggest otherwise. The fact of recent stories suggesting (or demonstrating) that not all convictions can be substantiated only fuels my belief in an anti-capital punishment position. A mistaken conviction can be undone, even at some cost to the falsely imprisoned individual, if the accused remains in prison; executing an accused who is later shown to have been innocent is among the most heinous things our society can do. If it's happened once, it's happened too often.
I think allowing a person, known to be an unrepentant risk to society, to continue having the opportunity to kill again, and who then does so (whether in prison or after release or escape), is one of the most heinous things our society can do.

Between these two opinions lies the answer and, personally, I think it includes capital punishment.

[jack sommerset]

Yay

[hope4dopes]

Oh fo shur.....anybody that harms a child should be eviscerated with a rusty tin can. serial murderers, sadists, oh yeah, you put mad dogs down.

[PixelPusher]

I think allowing a person, known to be an unrepentant risk to society, to continue having the opportunity to kill again, and who then does so (whether in prison or after release or escape), is one of the most heinous things our society can do.

Between these two opinions lies the answer and, personally, I think it includes capital punishment.
Nice bit of sophistry there. Projecting an extreme counter-position nobody else suggested in the first place in order to make your position the moderate "in-between answer".

[clambake]

we have people here that want to kill men, women, and children crossing the border.

[Yonivore]

Nice bit of sophistry there. Projecting an extreme counter-position in order to make your position the moderate "in-between answer".
I think more people are killed by persons that should have been executed than there are people that are executed that shouldn't have been.

[clambake]

I think more people are killed by persons that should have been executed than there are people that are executed that shouldn't have been.

since you want to play the numbers game........show us the numbers.

[PixelPusher]

I think more people are killed by persons that should have been executed than there are people that are executed that shouldn't have been.

Setting aside your feelings based statistics, that make the "in-between" answer life in prison, not executions.

[hope4dopes]

since you want to play the numbers game........show us the numbers.Chimp is that you ?

[clambake]

Chimp is that you ?

you want to help yoni, micca?

don't be shy......let him know how you feel.

[Yonivore]

since you want to play the numbers game........show us the numbers.


"I think..."
You show me the numbers, if you like. I was stating an opinion of a subject that has several unknowns but for which there are probably more sensational anecdotes to support my position than the other.

In a one-to-one comparison, an innocent person, kidnapped, raped, and murdered by a former ward of the State is a million times more heinous and reprehensible an act of government than is the execution of a person who either ran with the wrong crowd or, even for reasons beyond his control, was unable to extricate him/herself from their fate.

They're both tragic but, as a prosecutor or judge, I'd get less sleep knowing my efforts failed at the former than the latter.

[Yonivore]

Setting aside your feelings based statistics, that make the "in-between" answer life in prison, not executions.
No, it doesn't. Lifers still commit murder in prison.

Then, taken to the next logical step, isolation could be considered cruel and unusual.

[clambake]

i think you're not a prosecutor or a judge.

no big deal......now i'm more interested in micca's feelings for you.

[hope4dopes]

i think you're not a prosecutor or a judge.

no big deal......now i'm more interested in micca's feelings for you.
what your...not...interested ..in my feelings for you?

[hope4dopes]

i think you're not a prosecutor or a judge.

no big deal......now i'm more interested in micca's feelings for you.

and that IS you Chimp...p.s. fuck the IRA

[elbamba]

I think that this is an issue best left to the individual states. I for one, am against taking life, no matter the circumstances.

However, I am sure my feelings would change if it were one of my kids found in the back of a garbage truck or dumpyard.

[PixelPusher]

No, it doesn't. Lifers still commit murder in prison.

Then, taken to the next logical step, isolation could be considered cruel and unusual.

It's called "solitary confinement", and we already have that too.

[hope4dopes]

yeah torturing people with solitary confinment protects the general population of the prison, but it is cruel, I feel it's far more human to just toast their asses and move on.

[Yonivore]

It's called "solitary confinement", and we already have that too.
They're not truly isolated. And, they still murder people...usually prison guards or medical staff.

[spursncowboys]

Yes. But not for a deterent. Because as a society we should decide what laws, that are so bad, should take people out for good. I believe that any kind of premeditated murder should be available for prosecuters. However I would not stop there. I think we should include child molesters when the child is at a very young level. Besides the idea that it is a terrible crime, it has been proven that the criminal, at a large percentage, will do it again. I am not saying putting to death a senior dating a sophmore. I think at the extreme level should be a capital offense.
I also believe that we should work to fix our system if even one criminal is convicted when they are innocent. We should always be working to better the process without competely wanting to do away with it.

[RandomGuy]

Nay.

Costs too damn much.

[Crookshanks]

Definitely yes. I had no problem with Ted Bundy being fried. And when they catch the sick SOB who kidnapped and murdered Somer Thomsen - I think her mother ought to be able to flip the switch.

[whottt]

Sure, if you know beyond all doubt they are guilty, what else are you supposed to do with them?

Pay for their room and board? Where they actually live better in terms of food and shelter than homeless non-criminals?

Does that really make any sense?


Blow the whole thing off? Hope it doesn't happen again?

That's irresponsible, and stupid.


So yeah, but the flipside is this....there need to be reprecussions for convicting and executing innocent people, in particular the judges and the attorneys.

Any judges or attorneys that send an innocent man to prison or execute him should lose their ability to ever make such decisions again, because that is the worst mistake you can make. And irresponsibly doing it is no different than irresponsibly getting in your car drunk and hitting someone.

Yes there are exceptions, but generally speaking that's the way it should be to me.



It should be an option, a solution, it should not be an easy one however, and it should be something people are hesitant to do. It should not be something they can never do....because sometimes it is the only solution.

[panic giraffe]

nay.

the state should never have a right to kill, unless in wartime.

the other way leaves too many open holes for misinterpretation and wrongful executions.

plus when you leave that window open, there is the real opportunity to kill dissent.

but i wish i had a better idea for punishment for capital offenders...life in a work camp building something to pay the victims family? i dunno.

[doobs]

No.

But I don't lose any sleep over it.

[SnakeBoy]

Yes

Simply imprisoning them for life is too dangerous for us. Think of all the CO2 they will produce without contributing anything to society. For the good of the planet we must kill them.

[AussieFanKurt]

Simply imprisoning them for life is too dangerous for us. Think of all the CO2 they will produce without contributing anything to society. For the good of the planet we must kill them.

:lol True I guess.

I just think that only a small percentage should be executed. Like there are some murderers who do the public killings and so many people see. I mean it was obviously him and hes done a heinous act and replaced his 'human' label with a 'scum' label

[Crookshanks]

So what do you think of this?

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - The mastermind of the 2002 Washington, DC-area sniper attacks will die by lethal injection next month, Virginia (http://topics.breitbart.com/Virginia/) officials said Tuesday.

John Allen Muhammad (http://topics.breitbart.com/John+Allen+Muhammad/) declined to choose between lethal injection and electrocution, so under state law the method defaults to lethal injection, Virginia Department (http://topics.breitbart.com/Virginia+Department/) of Corrections spokesman Larry Traylor (http://topics.breitbart.com/Larry+Traylor/) said.

Muhammad is scheduled to be executed Nov. 10 for the October 2002 slaying of Dean Harold Meyers (http://topics.breitbart.com/Harold+Meyers/) at a Manassas gas station during a string of shootings.
The three-week killing spree in October 2002 left 10 dead in Maryland, (http://topics.breitbart.com/Maryland/) Virginia and the District of Columbia. (http://topics.breitbart.com/District+of+Columbia/)

Muhammad and his teenage accomplice, Lee Boyd Malvo, (http://topics.breitbart.com/Lee+Boyd+Malvo/) were also suspected of shootings in several other states, including a killing in Louisiana (http://topics.breitbart.com/louisiana/) and another in Alabama. (http://topics.breitbart.com/Alabama/) Malvo is serving a life sentence in prison.
Muhammad's lawyers have asked the Virginia governor for clemency and plan to file an appeal with the U.S. Supreme Court (http://topics.breitbart.com/U.S.+Supreme+Court/) early next month.

[SnakeBoy]

So what do you think of this?

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - The mastermind of the 2002 Washington, DC-area sniper attacks will die by lethal injection next month, Virginia (http://topics.breitbart.com/Virginia/) officials said Tuesday.

John Allen Muhammad (http://topics.breitbart.com/John+Allen+Muhammad/) declined to choose between lethal injection and electrocution, so under state law the method defaults to lethal injection, Virginia Department (http://topics.breitbart.com/Virginia+Department/) of Corrections spokesman Larry Traylor (http://topics.breitbart.com/Larry+Traylor/) said.

Muhammad is scheduled to be executed Nov. 10 for the October 2002 slaying of Dean Harold Meyers (http://topics.breitbart.com/Harold+Meyers/) at a Manassas gas station during a string of shootings.
The three-week killing spree in October 2002 left 10 dead in Maryland, (http://topics.breitbart.com/Maryland/) Virginia and the District of Columbia. (http://topics.breitbart.com/District+of+Columbia/)

Muhammad and his teenage accomplice, Lee Boyd Malvo, (http://topics.breitbart.com/Lee+Boyd+Malvo/) were also suspected of shootings in several other states, including a killing in Louisiana (http://topics.breitbart.com/louisiana/) and another in Alabama. (http://topics.breitbart.com/Alabama/) Malvo is serving a life sentence in prison.
Muhammad's lawyers have asked the Virginia governor for clemency and plan to file an appeal with the U.S. Supreme Court (http://topics.breitbart.com/U.S.+Supreme+Court/) early next month.

I think it's a shame the teenager Malvo isn't going to be executed right along with him.

[Winehole23]

We still don't execute children. Gotta draw the line somewhere.

[Ace9]

You can measure a society's civilization on its laws, punishments, and prisons.... We are pretty crappy on all fronts here - I think the death penalty is okay in some cases, but in others is downright wrong. A black man that committs a crime is 4 times more likely than a white man that committted a similar crime, to receive the death penalty... Similar tendencies for age, sex, and nationality reek amongst our courts. I prefer to have those people suffer, not die.

[doobs]

We still don't execute children. Gotta draw the line somewhere.

We draw various lines, some more arbitrary than others. The Roper line is pretty arbitrary, if you ask me.

[panic giraffe]

any of you big time pro-death (who are probably ironically anti-abortion) people ever just scroll some of the stories on: http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/offendersondrow.htm

pretty crazy stuff. i'm not defending them, as i don't know the whole story, but some of them, you can almost feel for if you just read the profile. almost all don't have a high school education, almost all are listed as laborers or some other blue collar job. it makes you wonder about their upbringing, if they would have been given the same shot towards a decent education and adequate human services (food, shelter, health) would they have made some of the same choices that they did?

true there are some pure scum, see: http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/shoreanthony.htm

but there is also the rare case of bad idea gone bat shit out of control bad like:http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/espadanoah.htm

i'm not saying that these people on this list should be punished, severely, i was just thinking that there has to be a better way...it also makes you wonder as you scroll to the bottom how many might be there under false circumstances or didn't get the best representation in court.

i dunno i might just be ranting here.

[panic giraffe]

We still don't execute children. Gotta draw the line somewhere.

had a friend put on death row for a crime he committed when he was 17, so he won't die a kid, but he was sentenced to death as one for sure.

not that he isn't getting what he deserves, crime was severe.

[AussieFanKurt]

the death penalty is in Texas isnt it?

[EmptyMan]

Yay.

They should let the family of the victim do it as well.

[doobs]

the death penalty is in Texas isnt it?

Seriously?

[TheProfessor]

We still don't execute children. Gotta draw the line somewhere.
Side note - two cases go up for oral argument before the Supreme Court in November concerning life sentences for juveniles who commit non-homicide offenses and whether it violates the 8th Amendment.

[AussieFanKurt]

Seriously?

i dont live in the US of A....

[Cant_Be_Faded]

yes but i'm not down with this high cost bull shit

last i checked a bullet only cost a dollar

[AussieFanKurt]

last i checked a bullet only cost a dollar

If only it was that easy

[jack sommerset]

baby steps.....if someone pleads guilty to murder, execute them. no ifs,ands,buts or whats, just throw them in the chair and watch them die. that alone would save a shitload of money,help families get over lost ones faster and no chance these freaks would get back on the street 5 years later to kill again. you plead guilty, you sign your own death warrant.

[doobs]

baby steps.....if someone pleads guilty to murder, execute them. no ifs,ands,buts or whats, just throw them in the chair and watch them die. that alone would save a shitload of money,help families get over lost ones faster and no chance these freaks would get back on the street 5 years later to kill again. you plead guilty, you sign your own death warrant.

A couple problems with that:

1.) There are still grounds for appeal. Even if you waive your right to appeal, you can subsequently argue that your plea was not knowing or voluntary, or that you were somehow coerced. And you can make that argument once again for habeas. So not much is saved.

2.) Who would ever plead guilty? What incentive would defendants have to avoid a trial?

[angel_luv]

I am against the death penalty in all cases.

I know the death penalty happened repeatedly in the Old Testament, so I can understand the people who defend it accordingly.

However, I feel that murder is murder period and just as I would be wrong to take someone's life in cold blood, it would be wrong of me to support ending someone's life in a death chamber, regardless of what crimes he/ she has committed.

I believe that I will answer to God one day for all I do and all I support. And if I am going to be wrong on this issue, I would rather err by extending grace.

I support life time imprisonment in the cases that it is necessary.
But I believe it is important to focus first on crime prevention by community outreach, youth mentorship, and education opportunities for all.

Also, I support rehabiltating as many prisoners as possible and programs which assists former criminals in becoming productive members of society.

I refuse to count anyone as hopelessly loss, although I am all for protecting society from those who pose a danger to it, for as long as such measures are necessary.

[Fpoonsie]

I am against the death penalty in all cases.

I know the death penalty happened repeatedly in the Old Testament, so I can understand the people who defend it accordingly.

However, I feel that murder is murder period and just as I would be wrong to take someone's life in cold blood, it would be wrong of me to support ending someone's life in a death chamber, regardless of what crimes he/ she has committed.

I believe that I will answer to God one day for all I do and all I support. And if I am going to be wrong on this issue, I would rather err by extending grace.

I support life time imprisonment in the cases that it is necessary.
But I believe it is important to focus first on crime prevention by community outreach, youth mentorship, and education opportunities for all.

Also, I support rehabiltating as many prisoners as possible and programs which assists former criminals in becoming productive members of society.

I refuse to count anyone as hopelessly loss, although I am all for protecting society from those who pose a danger to it, for as long as such measures are necessary.

Good post. I don't necessarily agree w/ all of it, but it wasn't what I expected. Refreshingly insightful.

[FromWayDowntown]

A couple problems with that:

1.) There are still grounds for appeal. Even if you waive your right to appeal, you can subsequently argue that your plea was not knowing or voluntary, or that you were somehow coerced. And you can make that argument once again for habeas. So not much is saved.

2.) Who would ever plead guilty? What incentive would defendants have to avoid a trial?

I think another problem with that, even if you believe convictions to be verdict of a jury to be sacrosanct, is that by eliminating the carrot of a plea bargain, you run the risk that those who are likely guilty will be found not guilty by a jury and free in society instead of serving time. I'd agree that the circumstances in which that might happen would be limited and rare, but it's still a possibility.

[balli]

Angel's been reading Ecclesiastes or Luke or something. Good take.

[angel_luv]

Angel's been reading Ecclesiastes or Luke or something. Good take.

:lol Ironically, I've been studying Joshua.

[Blake]

I am against the death penalty in all cases.

I know the death penalty happened repeatedly in the Old Testament, so I can understand the people who defend it accordingly.

However, I feel that murder is murder period and just as I would be wrong to take someone's life in cold blood, it would be wrong of me to support ending someone's life in a death chamber, regardless of what crimes he/ she has committed.

I believe that I will answer to God one day for all I do and all I support. And if I am going to be wrong on this issue, I would rather err by extending grace.

I support life time imprisonment in the cases that it is necessary. interesting. Since you disregard ot laws regarding death penalty do you also disregard other ot law....such as the 10 commandments?

[jack sommerset]

A couple problems with that:

1.) There are still grounds for appeal. Even if you waive your right to appeal, you can subsequently argue that your plea was not knowing or voluntary, or that you were somehow coerced. And you can make that argument once again for habeas. So not much is saved.

2.) Who would ever plead guilty? What incentive would defendants have to avoid a trial?

Who cares. No ifs,ands,buts or whats. Kill them. Next step. Anyone who is in jail for more than 10 years give them the option to have the government kill them.