Buck Harvey: Got Nazr? The trade shows life

[Kori Ellis]

Buck Harvey: Got Nazr? The trade shows life
Web Posted: 04/17/2005 12:00 AM CDT

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA041705.1C.COL.BKNharvey.1e5ad9e0f.html

San Antonio Express-News

The homemade signs are gone now, as is the anger.

"Got Malik?"

No one is crying about spilt milk anymore.

Time does that, as does a quiet, effective rebounder. Nazr Mohammed hasn't started to sell cheesesteaks yet, but his game sells enough. He's filled in for Rasho Nesterovic so well that this sprained ankle is forgotten compared to another, and Mohammed's impact goes beyond Rose.

Such as to Denver.

If the Nuggets are the next opponents in the SBC Center, and they come with tall, quick players such as Marcus Camby, Kenyon Martin and Nene, wouldn't the 6-foot-10 Mohammed be a logical counter?

Rose might have found a way, too, because he often did. He knew the Spurs' system, and he knew how to use his quickness. When Tim Duncan went down almost a month ago, the Spurs also missed Rose's toughness.

Even Gregg Popovich and R.C. Buford, the ones who traded Rose, said the same. Rose would have helped in those early days without Duncan.

He also would have helped Feb. 26. Then, in the first game after the trade, the Grizzlies came to San Antonio. Fans brought signs protesting the trade, and the players responded as if attending a wake. Memphis won by two points, with Manu Ginobili throwing away a pass at the end.

"We are missing a great guy, someone who was really enjoyable to share the locker room with," Ginobili said then. "But we just have to trust Pop and R.C. that this is the best thing for the franchise."

The players had to trust. The rest of the league already believed. The consensus around the NBA was that the Spurs got the better of the deal, and Memphis coach Mike Fratello joined the chorus. That night in February, after beating the Spurs, Fratello saw the potential.

"They really strengthened themselves for a down-the-road playoff situation," Fratello said then, "by making the move that they made."

Spurs fans didn't believe. Hadn't a popular mainstay been traded? But for those paying attention, Fratello again said something that applied. "They make good judgments on talent, and character plays a big role in what they've done here. Everything they do is first class."

Translation: The Spurs were smart enough to see something in Rose a long time ago, so maybe they were smart enough to see something in Mohammed, too.

Fratello didn't have to look far for evidence. "Look out there to see," he said Saturday.

Look out there to see Mohammed defending, staying active, blocking five Memphis shots. Look back, too, to see the pattern. In the four games he's started, he's averaging about a double-double.

He's also blocked 11 shots in those games, and not even Mohammed saw this coming.

"I'm not someone who can take someone one-on-one and block his shot," he said. "But it helps when you play on a great defensive team. When your teammates are guarding their men and sliding on defense, I can get to the weakside and help."

Two blocks came midway through the second quarter Saturday night. And when he scored inside late with a tip, the Spurs took a 13-point lead into halftime.

Nothing Mohammed did, however, meant more than Duncan running without a limp. And when Duncan took off his ankle brace at halftime and began to move as he did earlier in the season, things might be changing in the Western Conference.

For example, which is the Team No One Wants to Meet in the Playoffs? Maybe it's San Antonio after all, not Denver.

Fratello sees similar possibilities, and he sees Mohammed as instrumental. "He can play side-by-side with Tim Duncan," Fratello began. "He can play side-by-side with Robert Horry and Rasho Nesterovic. He gives you offensive rebounding, shotblocking, defense. He gives you flexibility."

Such as in the playoffs against Denver?

Fratello nodded. "He helps you match up."

Rose came with his own advantages. He could defend small or large, and he had something Mohammed cannot claim. He proved it in big playoffs victories.

Mohammed hasn't. But as he matched up with Memphis Saturday — as this center replaced another again in a seamless transition — this much is clear in April.

The trade made some sense.

[whottt]

]Even Gregg Popovich and R.C. Buford, the ones who traded Rose, said the same. Rose would have helped in those early days without Duncan.

He also would have helped Feb. 26. Then, in the first game after the trade, the Grizzlies came to San Antonio.

We are going to miss out on best record in the NBA and the #1 seed by 1 or 2 games...That traded did hinder us...it may not seem like much now...and looking at the bracket the 1 seed is going to probably get we are probably better off...

But if we end up playing Phoenix and it's a series where the home team wins every game...that trade will have cost us a title. It probably won't happen that way...but if it does...

[T Park]

but if it does

yeah yeah yeah, youll bitch your head off.


STFU already.

[whottt]

TPark...You must have missed this:


When Tim Duncan went down almost a month ago, the Spurs also missed Rose's toughness.

Even Gregg Popovich and R.C. Buford, the ones who traded Rose, said the same. Rose would have helped in those early days without Duncan.


conversation when you were draining nut in Pop's office.

[HB22inSA]

News flash: I think Pop and Company already knew this before they pulled the trade.

[whottt]

News flash: I think Pop and Company already knew this before they pulled the trade.

Bullshit...Pop had just about given up on Nazr...he started covering his ass on it as far back as the loss to the Knicks.

[T Park]

He can play side-by-side with Tim Duncan," Fratello began. "He can play side-by-side with Robert Horry and Rasho Nesterovic. He gives you offensive rebounding, shotblocking, defense. He gives you flexibility."



Fantastic quote by Fratello.

He sees the potential this trade will instill.

[T Park]

TPark...You must have missed this:


No i didnt miss it.


But once again, get the Brent Barry dick out of your ear and listen.

Thats in the past, just like Malik Rose being gone, so GET THE FUCK OVER IT!!!



Mohammed is playing well, hes getting more familiar in the system, and hes playing better.


Move forward.

Good article. Im sure fans will bandwagon onto the Nazr ship, once he does it in the playoffs, the "Malik = GOD" Fans will be cheering too.

Fuckin stiffs.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Again, Whott bitches about something in the past with Nazr. Just like he lives in the past ('99, '03) with Malik's contributions to this team.

Anytime you want to join us in mid-April, 2005, feel free man.

[HB22inSA]

whottt, you're going to love Nazr in the playoffs.

[whottt]

Why don't you shitheads rip Pop and RC for saying the same things...

They said we missed Malik's tougness.
They said the fact that Malik knew the team would have helped us.
They said the trade was made for financial reasons.
They said Malik's contract got him traded.

Rip them...they are making the same criticisms I have made...And who knows if they even make the trade if Duncan is injured at that time.

[whottt]

whottt, you're going to love Nazr in the playoffs.

Maybe...he's sucked off the bench. He hasn't played well off the bench yet.

[HB22inSA]

Of course they did!!

All of those things are true.

But they're not going to bring a guy in who is totally clueless and give him significant minutes.

[PM5K]

You can't really say that trade is why we aren't number one, we've had significant injuries this season, we could have just as easily had the exact same record with or without Malik......

[MaNuMaNiAc]

We are going to miss out on best record in the NBA and the #1 seed by 1 or 2 games...That traded did hinder us...it may not seem like much now...and looking at the bracket the 1 seed is going to probably get we are probably better off...

But if we end up playing Phoenix and it's a series where the home team wins every game...that trade will have cost us a title. It probably won't happen that way...but if it does...
I'm interested in knowing how YOU KNOW that we would have won those games with Malik?? Bullshit, is all I have to say.

[whottt]

I'm interested in knowing how YOU KNOW that we would have won those games with Malik?? Bullshit, is all I have to say.

Simple...we lost the first game after Malik was traded...Pop himself said the Malik trade was probably the reason we lose that game. Nazr didn't even play in that game...we basically had no bench big.

You guys also forget that Nazr was injured leaving us with a depleted bench.

And it's inconcievable to me that anyone can think Nazr that had been here for a week or a month would be as effective as Malik who had been here for 7 years...remember, we lost a game to Denver by 3 points. We lost a game in Phoenix by a small margin also.

To say that...that's just flat out a non-recognition of what Malik Rose brought to this team, it's just ignorance sorry but it is....and if you look real closely even the Spurs brass is seconding that reasoning.

The simple fact of the matter is that, prior to about a week and a half ago, Nazr was behind Marks in the rotation...if you make the excuse that he was new to the team...then you prove me my point for me. And the biggest Nazr jockers on the forum have used that excuse ad nauseum.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

They said we missed Malik's tougness.

Which we have seen emerge in Nazr now he's comfortable with the team. Next.



They said the fact that Malik knew the team would have helped us.

Enough guys get injured, Sean Marks could have helped us. Oh wait, he did... Next.


They said the trade was made for financial reasons.
A class organization like the Spurs is never going to say "he was playing like shit, so we traded him." They had to walk on egg shells for the Rosesuckers like yourself.



They said Malik's contract got him traded.

Again, it's easier for them to say "he was getting paid too much, we're trying to keep basketball affordable for you, the common fan", than to say San Antonio's prodigal son had gotten lazy and content with punching the time clock every day but leaving the blue collar work ethic at home.



Rip them...they are making the same criticisms I have made...And who knows if they even make the trade if Duncan is injured at that time.

I don't see them making those criticisms now. In fact, if you read this morning's article Pop was basically saying he screwed up by not giving Nazr the PT he should have (something to the effect of "I should have thrown him to the fire earlier").

Again Whott, you're living in and around Feb. 24, it's April 17. Come join us in the here and now.

[boutons]

PTST normally is used fo Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome, but in Whott's case, it's Post-Trade Stress Syndrome.

Whott, the Malik is spilt, stop your incessant crying and bitching, seek professional help.

To claim the trade caused us to miss the NBA #1 is pure BS, selecting your facts to fit your unresolved emotional crisis. Malik was on the roster for losses @TOR, @SAC, @WAS, @ORL, first lost @UTA, Sonics@SBC, etc, etc. Malik would have been out of gas, like everybody else in the main rotation, for the second loss @UTA.

The Spurs, probably more than any other NBA team, lose/win as a team, as a system, not as individuals. The Spurs, AS A TEAM, gave away plenty of games when Malik was on the roster, but had managed to work himself into marginality.

Nazr is looking like an excellent trade, most Spurs fans who can get past their emotions and look at the basketball, think so, most of the NBA thinks so.

btw, I miss Malik as much as anyone, and watch gawdawful Knicks games only to see how Malik is doing.

[timvp]

Nazr is now doing his part. I think Pop was losing confidence in him but since Rasho's been down, Nazr has stepped up and is playing well. Now if he can continue that pace in the playoffs, this will be a masterful trade.

If he can play 8-10 minutes per game in the playoffs per game and provide rebounding and defense, the trade will have been a success. That's all I've ever asked of him.

Nazr can do this.

Believe.

[MadDog73]

How is Malik doing with the Knicks? Just curious.

I'm surprised there's no "We should have kept Turko" threads!
The guy is having a career best year. Stupid Pop always trades away our best bench players :rolleyes

Oh, wait. Both Malik and Turko couldn't help us beat the Lakers. Maybe Nazr and Barry will.

'Nuff said.

PS: Would Malik as starting Center (like Mohammed is) be as effective?

I think not. Another good move by Pop. (And I know Turko will fade in the Playoffs. He always does...)

[Jimcs50]

Nazr has made a believer outof me.

His play has been nothing short of meritorious.

[boutons]

"How is Malik doing with the Knicks?"

What I've noted is Malik as Knicks traffic cop, lots of hand signals. :lol

Signalling somebody to go here or there, while setting pick.

Signalling for the ball, which almost NEVER works, for anybody, esp when you're 3rd option, or lower.

Malik hasn't tranformed the Knicks (their problems are beyond transformation) or tranformed himself into a Super-Malik. He's still an under-sized low-block heart/hustle player, "not that there's anything wrong with that".

[whottt]

PTST normally is used fo Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome, but in Whott's case, it's Post-Trade Stress Syndrome.

Whott, the Malik is spilt, stop your incessant crying and bitching, seek professional help.

To claim the trade caused us to miss the NBA #1 is pure BS, selecting your facts to fit your unresolved emotional crisis. Malik was on the roster for losses @TOR, @SAC, @WAS, @ORL, first lost @UTA, Sonics@SBC, etc, etc. Malik would have been out of gas, like everybody else in the main rotation, for the second loss @UTA.

The Spurs, probably more than any other NBA team, lose/win as a team, as a system, not as individuals. The Spurs, AS A TEAM, gave away plenty of games when Malik was on the roster, but had managed to work himself into marginality.

Nazr is looking like an excellent trade, most Spurs fans who can get past their emotions and look at the basketball, think so, most of the NBA thinks so.

btw, I miss Malik as much as anyone, and watch gawdawful Knicks games only to see how Malik is doing.



This is fucking classic...you are the biggest whining bitch on the entire board...you come in and whine and bitch after 30 point blowouts during 8 game winning streaks when we have the best record in the NBA....

So save the advice.

Secondly, Nazr was injured and missed games, Nazr has yet to not suck coming off the bench...so to say Malik would not have been more effective is pure stupidity.

[whottt]

If you are watching the Knicks you would know Malik is being used at lot at Small Forward and because of that he is playing much further out from the basket than he traditionally has...

[whottt]

Which we have seen emerge in Nazr now he's comfortable with the team. Next.

Yeah? And we didn't have to wait for it to emerge with Malik. That's called a project.




Enough guys get injured, Sean Marks could have helped us. Oh wait, he did... Next.


A class organization like the Spurs is never going to say "he was playing like shit, so we traded him." They had to walk on egg shells for the Rosesuckers like yourself.

That's not true...they went from saying the trade made the team better to saying it was done for financial reasons...

And they weren't saying it after wins...they were saying it after getting our butts kicked by lottery teams and Malik punking Nazr.




Again, it's easier for them to say "he was getting paid too much, we're trying to keep basketball affordable for you, the common fan", than to say San Antonio's prodigal son had gotten lazy and content with punching the time clock every day but leaving the blue collar work ethic at home.

Please...Malik never got lazy...




I don't see them making those criticisms now. In fact, if you read this morning's article Pop was basically saying he screwed up by not giving Nazr the PT he should have (something to the effect of "I should have thrown him to the fire earlier").

Um first you say that the Spurs knew exactly what they had in Nazr all along and now you quote Pop saying he made mistakes with him...

Get the contradiction?

You are clueless if you don't think Nazr has sucked for just about his entire Spurs career...

I am not ready to put the guy in the Hall of Fame yet because of 4 games as a starter.





Again Whott, you're living in and around Feb. 24, it's April 17. Come join us in the here and now.

:yawn

This article is discussing the impact of the trade...
I am pointing out how it's impact might have potentially hindered our title chances...

[picnroll]

Whottt do you think the Isiah will try to unload Malik this summer? Do you think if he does move Malik he'll be able to get much for him than a marginally better player with a significantly worse contract?

If Nazr keeps playing like he has been of late do you think the Spurs could unload him this summer or before trade deadline next year for a very nice piece if they wanted?


P.S. This is a relity test.

[Brodels]

Silly.

That's like saying that if the Spurs would have kept Charles Smith they would have won one more game this season because he would have hit a jumper at the buzzer.

Or the Spurs would have won 70 games this season if Speedy Claxton was still around.

Or that the Spurs would have lost the last five games without Nazr.

Frankly, nobody has any idea what the Spurs record would have been if the trade had not happened. You're foolish if you think you can predict the outcome of every game based on the Nazr/Malik trade.

Whottt tends to create bubbles for his arguments. In this case, the Spurs would have won a particular game if Malik had played and lost another because he didn't...but that doesn't factor in what the rest of the team was doing. It's just as easy to say that the Spurs would have lost every game this month if Malik was still here. Malik was just a small part of what's going on, and so is Nazr. They weren't/aren't even the first big off the bench. They are important, but there are so many other things that factor in.

To think that Malik may have cost the team the number one seed is evidence of your inability to even try to look at the trade with any kind of objectivity. You can continue to deny it, but it's been clear all along that your man love for Rose is huge. Deny it as you will, but nobody is going to believe you.

You've been a broken record for two months now.

[ducks]

rose sucked his first few years as a spur

[whottt]

Silly.

That's like saying that if the Spurs would have kept Charles Smith they would have won one more game this season because he would have hit a jumper at the buzzer.

Or the Spurs would have won 70 games this season if Speedy Claxton was still around.

Not it's not like saying those things. Saying those thigns is like saying those things.


Or that the Spurs would have lost the last five games without Nazr.

Show me a time we lost 5 in a row with Duncan injured...Show me the last time we lost 3 in a row with Duncan injured..and Malik on the team.




Frankly, nobody has any idea what the Spurs record would have been if the trade had not happened. You're foolish if you think you can predict the outcome of every game based on the Nazr/Malik trade.

So basically in your brilliance you have concluded:

A:That making a transition from one team to another is easily done. From winner to loser is easily done. From outside in to inside out is easily done...etc....and that there is no adjustment factor whatsoever...

That's just hilarious because I can find quotes by every Nazr jocker on the board saying otherwise...when Nazr was killing us with SUCK.

and

B.A player being unavailable due to injury has no impact on the court, ever.





Whottt tends to create bubbles for his arguments. In this case, the Spurs would have won a particular game if Malik had played and lost another because he didn't...but that doesn't factor in what the rest of the team was doing.

The rest of the team was having chemistry issues due to the trade...and I can find quotes by Pop saying it.



It's just as easy to say that the Spurs would have lost every game this month if Malik was still here. Malik was just a small part of what's going on, and so is Nazr. They weren't/aren't even the first big off the bench. They are important, but there are so many other things that factor in.

Malik was the primary Duncan replacement...show me when we lost 3 or 5 in a row with him doing that role.





To think that Malik may have cost the team the number one seed is evidence of your inability to even try to look at the trade with any kind of objectivity. You can continue to deny it, but it's been clear all along that your man love for Rose is huge. Deny it as you will, but nobody is going to believe you.

To think that taking a player that had been here in an important role for 7 years and replacing him with an injured guy that didn't know the team, while we are battling numerous injuries, didn't cost this team 1 or 2 games?

That just shows a total and absolute lack of common sense...as well as a total lack of appreciation for what Malik did do on this team...





You've been a broken record for two months now.

And rightly so...because Nazr absolutely sucked fucking ass up till about a week and a half ago...and even now he still hasn't proven he can be that effective off the bench...

[boutons]

"Malik is being used at lot at Small Forward"

Just fucking fanstastic for a guy who can't create his own shot, can't pass for shit, has poor floor vision/decision-making/play-making, is too slow to keep up with 75% of the SFs, and can't dribble 3 times without a TO. (and I like Mali). He's primarily a hustling rebounder, low-block defender, can hit the occasional catch-n-shoot jumper, and not bad at FT line. PERIOD

Whott, you yawp on like Jim Baker in FL election, "over and over and over". That election is over and way past, and the Malik trade is over and way past, for psychologically healthy people.

I bitch and whine ONCE PER SHITTY SPURS GAME. Not my fault if the Spurs are pretty good as delivering shitty games. The Spurs' TEAM inconsistency is a much larger factor in the Spurs end-of-season/championship chances than Malik's (or Nazr's) marginal contributions, negative and positive.

[T Park]

I think Whottt, your all alone in your hate of the trade.


That tells me its time to fuckin move on.


BTW, you said hes YET to suck comin off the bench??


Didn't he come off the bench against the Jazz??

[whottt]

"Malik is being used at lot at Small Forward"

Just fucking fanstastic for a guy who can't create his own shot, can't pass for shit, has poor floor vision/decision-making/play-making, is too slow to keep up with 75% of the SFs, and can't dribble 3 times without a TO. (and I like Mali). He's primarily a hustling rebounder, low-block defender, can hit the occasional catch-n-shoot jumper, and not bad at FT line. PERIOD

Whatever...they want to try him at SF because he has speed and a ranged J...


Whott, you yawp on like Jim Baker in FL election, "over and over and over". That election is over and way past, and the Malik trade is over and way past, for psychologically healthy people.

Um...look at the fucking impetus for this thread...douchebag.





I bitch and whine ONCE PER SHITTY SPURS GAME.

You bitch and whine period.


Not my fault if the Spurs are pretty good as delivering shitty games. The Spurs' TEAM inconsistency is a much larger factor in the Spurs end-of-season/championship chances than Malik's (or Nazr's) marginal contributions, negative and positive.


No you just turn a 3 point win into a reason we won't win the title...

GTFOuttahere for saying I am more negative than you...POT.

I bitch because this trade potentially cost us the #1 seed and I haven't even been doing that since Nazr has pulled his head out of his ass.

[whottt]

I think Whottt, your all alone in your hate of the trade.

Yeah? I was also all alone it not getting all over Hedo's jock because he shot good for a month.



That tells me its time to fuckin move on.

Then move the fuck on and stay outta threads spawned by articles that discuss the trade.



BTW, you said hes YET to suck comin off the bench??




Didn't he come off the bench against the Jazz??

Whatever...even if that is true we were still missing a starter and thus minutes were different and more readily available.

[T Park]

Whatever...even if that is true we were still missing a starter and thus minutes were different and more readily available.


lol

oh yeah he did do well there, so, uh, whatever, WE STILL MISS ROSE!!


lmao dumbfuck.

[pjjrfan]

He's playing well and that's good for the Spurs. I'm not going to say I agreed with the Malik trade, I didn't, knowing about the economics involved, it's still risky to tamper with the chemistry of a team that was leading the league or close to it for a guy who wasn't going to contribute right away.

Now, I just couldn't see any redeeming value in Nazr's game until recently, but the thing that has turned me on this guy is his toughness, he fights, he's scrappy and he doesn't allow himself to be pushed around, something I thought this team lost with Malik. After the Mavs game you could see how the players responded to Nazr's physical play, my biggest gripe about the Spurs has been that when push comes to shove, only Malik and Horry shove back. So losing Malik looke like a bad thing, but now I can see that Nazr is cut from that same mold, against Portland, after Patterson threw Manu, Nazr came down and flipped Prsybilla like a rag doll and left Patterson, the tough guy whining to the refs. I like that kind of play because other teams won't hesitate to do that to the Spurs. I think we got a guy who won't allow that to go on for any length of time.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Signalling for the ball, which almost NEVER works, for anybody, esp when you're 3rd option, or lower.


I call bullshit. They have Tim Thomas, Mike Sweetney, Jerome Williams, and Trevor Ariza who have all been running at SF.

Besides, if Nazr being new to the Spurs is not a legitimate excuse, neither is Rose playing 3-5 minutes at the SF each game. After all, the RCG (Rose Colored Glasses) folks have it in their folk lore that Malik can play all five positions on the court he's so good.


I am not ready to put the guy in the Hall of Fame yet because of 4 games as a starter.

Who said anything about the Hall of Fame dumbass? We're talking about starting him, or at the least giving him more minutes off the bench.

Nazr will never make the Hall, he's not near as good as Malik (granted Malik is the lock of locks at this point in his career, no one ever throws passes into the fifth row or pulls their jersey over their head quite like Rose).

[boutons]

Nazr shouldn't start, it would be too disruptive this late. Rasho should continue to start.

There have been plent of games where Rasho has started but played less that 24 minutes. That can continue with Nazr getting some of Rasho's minutes.

The starting poslitions shouldn't be futzed with until October.

[whottt]

I call bullshit. They have Tim Thomas, Mike Sweetney, Jerome Williams, and Trevor Ariza who have all been running at SF.

Call bullshit all you want...but first realize that you just labeled Mike Sweetney as a Small Forward. I am glad you aren't our coach otherwise you'd have Rasho lining up at SF....and what really makes that sick is that Rasho is more of a SF than Sweetny.

Secondly...why don't you look at who was starting for Tim Thomas recently.

And Williams may have a SF's body but he's got less of a jumpshot than Shaq.




Besides, if Nazr being new to the Spurs is not a legitimate excuse, neither is Rose playing 3-5 minutes at the SF each game. After all, the RCG (Rose Colored Glasses) folks have it in their folk lore that Malik can play all five positions on the court he's so good.

Nazr being new to the Spurs, being injured, ect...are all legitimate excuses...I just don't see the need to make a midseason trade for a guy whose got excuses to not play well..I'd rather have stuck with the healthy player who knew the team. I think it would have made a different in our record right now.

I didn't want a player who had excuses to suck. I wanted the best record in the NBA and I want a title.




Who said anything about the Hall of Fame dumbass? We're talking about starting him, or at the least giving him more minutes off the bench.

Nazr will never make the Hall, he's not near as good as Malik (granted Malik is the lock of locks at this point in his career, no one ever throws passes into the fifth row or pulls their jersey over their head quite like Rose).

:yawn

[Useruser666]

I think Whottt should create another screen name....call it anti-Whottt. Then he could continually argue these endless points back and forth.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Hey, if you can hold on to the dream that Malik, at 6'4", playing center in the West, was the reason we didn't get the one seed (with Duncan and Manu out), then Sweetney can get some run at SF for the Knicks.

[whottt]

Ok then why did Nazr suck for most of his Spurs stint? Why was Pop wondering if he was going to figure it out...why was he dropped behind Marks in the rotation...

He played 8 fucking minutes in a double OT game with Duncan injured and Rasho getting injured.

What's your explanation for it?

Explain that and you'll explain why that trade hurt our chances at the 1 seed.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He was behind Marks because Marks was playing better at the time.

That was three weeks ago though, things have changed, when will you recognize that?

As for the 1 seed, you have this fucked up sense of reality. We lost the one seed because our two All-Stars were out hurt, not because your glorified 10th man on the bench lost a pissing match with coach.

[T Park]

We lost the one seed because our two All-Stars were out hurt

duh, Malik would've made up for BOTH of them dont you know that by now?

[whottt]

He was behind Marks because Marks was playing better at the time.

No shit...do you think that's a positive?


That was three weeks ago though, things have changed, when will you recognize that?

I recognized it before you evidently,


As for the 1 seed, you have this fucked up sense of reality. We lost the one seed because our two All-Stars were out hurt, not because your glorified 10th man on the bench lost a pissing match with coach.

Wrong...if we miss out on it by 1 or 2 games there will be numerous games to blame...but there will definitely be games that we lost because of that trade.

There were games where Nazr was physically injured...now unless you want to say Grant Hill has been a better player than Bowen for the past 4 years...you need to just admit it.

The guy sucked...so bad, he played 8 minutes in a double OT game with No Duncan and only a partial Rasho...

You show me when Malik was ever that low on the rotation...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

When was Malik ever so low on the rotation? Fuck man, he was getting Did Not Play - Coach's Decisions. How low can you go?

As for the Marks/Nazr "positive", there were times when Beno was playing better than Parker, I guess we should start Udrih. I mean that's the same rationale you're using now.

The trade happened Feb. 24, it's time for you to get over it, Malik ain't coming back except once a year when we play the Knicks.

[picnroll]

It was obvious Nazr was hesistant and confused coming into a new system, uncertain of his role. That was hurting his on court play. He's figuring it out and he's playing as good or better than the people wanting another post defender could have hoped for.

Meanwhie, after a first couple of games where Malik reverted to the hustle player, not calling for the ball all the time, he has regressed back to the mean and his play has not stood out as a positive in the least for a crumbling Knicks team.

But we could have gotten that best record if we'd only kept Malik (maybe). Of course we wouldn't have had that impact post and help defender Nazr appears he will give us but wtf it's only the playoffs not the all important regular season record.

and btw Suns probably won't get past Dallas so you'll have that precious HCA anyways.

[whottt]

When was Malik ever so low on the rotation? Fuck man, he was getting Did Not Play - Coach's Decisions. How low can you go?

Big deal...Horry has gotten DNPCD'ed too.


As for the Marks/Nazr "positive", there were times when Beno was playing better than Parker, I guess we should start Udrih. I mean that's the same rationale you're using now.

No, that just means you don't realize how badly Nazr was playing, it wasn't just because Marks had a better game...That must have been when you were moving to Dallas....because he sucked...there was not a single redeeming quality about his play...not a single one. He was flat out awful in every aspect of the game. He was bad. So bad he got 8 minutes in a double OT game.







The trade happened Feb. 24, it's time for you to get over it, Malik ain't coming back except once a year when we play the Knicks.

LMAO...this is getting repetitive...in one thread you called me out for comments made 2 months ago, Mr.Present...and this one is discussing the ramifications of that trade.

And furthermore...you need to stop living in the future, because we haven't won a title yet, Mohammed hasn't proven he can be effective off the bench yet...and 1 game doesn't prove he's got the D figured out yet.

[Spurminator]

Is Nazr's production from the first few games really a concern right now? I can't figure out what this argument is about.

This is what happens when you rush to proclaim something a success or failure.

[whottt]

Well said Spurminator...and right now everyone is proclaiming this trade a success because of a recent hot streak by Nazr as a starter, but he's pretty much sucked badly for the bulk of his time here...Malik has had more impressive games as a starter...he's had games off the bench that were more impressive than these...in fact he had some off the bench that were more impressive the week he was traded.

The whole thing is if Nazr is going to be able to play like this off the bench...if he can do that, well that will rule quite honestly..but if he can't the trade will have totally sucked, for this season anyway....because he doesn't play D good enough yet to start ahead of Rasho...

[ChumpDumper]

What happened to the Knicks' tank job anyway?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

No, that just means you don't realize how badly Nazr was playing, it wasn't just because Marks had a better game

Jesus H. Christ. You've gone two pages on this thread and four on the other bitching about how Nazr played three weeks ago.

Who gives a fuck? I sure don't. Get over it.

So far the only legitimate gripe you have is that we're not going to be the one seed in the west (but you're not credible in saying Malik being here would have changed that), and we've already proven we can win at Phoenix.

If we don't beat Phoenix (should we play them), it will be because our players didn't play their best and our coaches didn't coach their best, not because Malik, six five in heels, Rose isn't around.

[whottt]

What happened to the Knicks' tank job anyway?

It's still in effect, and they are still in line to get Taft if they don't win the lottery. They were locked in above 6 spot period, right now they are 7th with 2 games to go...

You gotta realize...it's not like Williams is tanking it...he wants a coaching career...and it's not like the players are really tanking it, Malik Rose isn't gonna tank.

To tank, unless you are the Rockets, you deal yourself a bad hand and try and win with it...Tim Thomas saying he wasn't going to play the rest of the season was the tank IMO...He is Isiah's boy and he is in a contract year...

What is interesting is that he came back...I wonder if he started feeling insecure.

[whottt]

Jesus H. Christ. You've gone two pages on this thread and four on the other bitching about how Nazr played three weeks ago.

Um, I am just responding to lamefuck ass points...


Who gives a fuck? I sure don't. Get over it.

Then why do you keep responding...


So far the only legitimate gripe you have is that we're not going to be the one seed in the west (but you're not credible in saying Malik being here would have changed that), and we've already proven we can win at Phoenix.


We haven't beaten Phoenix since we traded Malik...and Malik played well against them...he matches up well with Amare.


If we don't beat Phoenix (should we play them), it will be because our players didn't play their best and our coaches didn't coach their best, not because Malik, six five in heels, Rose isn't around.

You need to take a good look at our road record and see if you think stupid pride will help more than HCA throughtou...especially since the Spurs have won like 1 playoff series in their entire history in which they did not have HCA.

HCA gives you the luxury of dropping a game at home and being able to make it up on the road...if you don't have HCA you have no margin for error.

[ChumpDumper]

Tanking teams don't go on three game win streaks to tie themselves with two other teams in a worse lotto position.

Thomas has another year after this one.

[whottt]

Tanking teams don't go on three game win streaks to tie themselves with two other teams in a worse lotto position.

The Knicks haven't won 3 games in a row...they've won two, really 1 since one of them was against the Hornets. Their draft position is virtually unchanged(like 1 spot, not 2) and they can actually move up higher thanks to GoldenState.




Thomas has another year after this one.

Well now that is curious isn't it...I gotta admit that a big part of the reason I saw a tank was because it's very unusual for a player like Thomas to willingly miss the rest of the season, in a bad season, in a contract year...but I am still convinced that his removal from the lineup was a tank coming from the top...let's just see what happens in the final two games...

[MadDog73]

whottt, I want you to say honestly that you think Malik > Mohammad.

[ChumpDumper]

they've won twoRight, the standings were updated faster than I thought. As I said though, winning those put them in a virtual dead heat with GS and Toronto.

I'm just not sure Zeke's job is so secure as to justify a tank job.

[whottt]

whottt, I want you to say honestly that you think Malik > Mohammad.

I honestly think Malik>Mohammed. Maybe not next season, or for our financial future, but specifically for winning a title this season...IMO Malik>>>>>Nazr...

That migh change...but it's not going to be because of numbers Nazr puts up as a starter...comparing stats between two bench players and making a big deal about slight differences is pointless...Bench players are going to have inconistency and misleading stats...

So basically it's about intagibles and non statistical things...

Experience - Edge Malik

Health - Since that groin is still kind of iffy(and least according to the Nazr jockers like TPark every time Nazr has a bad game) - Edge Malik

Toughness - Draw...and that's a high complement for Nazr. But he is tough.

Fearlessness - I give that edge to Nazr...Malik wasn't afraid of pressure...but sometiems Malik tried to hard, Nazr doesn't seem to do that. That's both a + and a - for Nazr, as we will see when we get to..


Desire - Malik always had desire, he always wanted to be the man, he always burned to win. Nazr seems like he is content whereever and whenever, and he doesn't want to be the man, that's what got him traded, like a lot of players...Losing in New York is driving Malik insane...Edge - Malik

I just think Malik has more intangibles...not to mention health and experience...and I think those things are more important in the post season, especially for bench players, than just about anything else..They are comparable rebounders and scorers, with NAzr being the better garbage man and o rebounder and Malik being quicker defender and having a better J...Nazr has a size advantage...but Malik has just about everything else working in his favor.

[ducks]

spurs lost games with a healthy team with rose they should have won
they lost games with nazr they should have won when everyone was healthy
that is why they might not get number one seed
and the spurs sure as hell do not need it to win it all

[MadDog73]

If Spurs win the Championship, and Nazr puts up decent numbers, then will he better that Malik?

[whottt]

IF Nazr has some games like had for us recently...off the bench, and in crucial situations, like Malik has done...he will be > Malik. He doesn't have to do it every game...but he needs to do it at least once when we need it done.

If he doesn't get that opporunity then I won't hold that against him.

But if he does...and he plays clueless, I don't mean numbers either..I mean getting lost like he has been most of his stint here...I am gonna bitch and I am gonna ask for someone to tell me when Malik ever failed like that in the playoffs.

[ducks]

to bad we can not compare the 2 in what they do in the playoffs THIS YEAR.


this spurs team is deeper then any postseason team that the spurs had with rose in postseason

[picnroll]

Steadiness - Edge Nazr

Malik was hot and cold. Nazr's game is more likely to be steady.


Sticking to your role - Edge Nazr

Every player on the team has a primary role. Malik didn't/wouldn't get this. This is what killed him. He would have a few excellent games going outside his role. He would have total cluster fuck games going outside his role. Ultimately Pop couldn't rely on him.


Fitting the system - Big edge Nazr

Post players on the Spurs need to be able to shut down the post. Block or contest shots. Malik couldn't.

[Ginobilly]

Steadiness - Edge Nazr

Malik was hot and cold. Nazr's game is more likely to be steady.


Sticking to your role - Edge Nazr

Every player on the team has a primary role. Malik didn't/wouldn't get this. This is what killed him. He would have a few excellent games going outside his role. He would have total cluster fuck games going outside his role. Ultimately Pop couldn't rely on him.


Fitting the system - Big edge Nazr

Post players on the Spurs need to be able to shut down the post. Block or contest shots. Malik couldn't.


I agree 100% with this.

Malik got his contract and playing time by playing with lots of energy and pesky defense and outworking people for offensive rebounds while getting about 9 pr 10 points off garbage buckets. The way Eduardo Najera plays now is the way Malik used to play and the one Pop loved. Somewhere along the way something got into Malik's head that he was Charles Barkley or Time Duncan and that's were he started to get on Pop's nerves. Launching more shots which took away touches from Manu and Parker and tried to do too much. And he stoped playing that pesky defense and outworking people for those offensive rebounds he was known for.
That's what made the trade a lot easier. If he would stuck to his role I don't think he would of been traded.

Ya'll know that Bowen has improved his mid range shot now and is taking it to the hole a little bit more. Well, what if just because of that he decideds to stop playing his rashy feared defense and start playing more offense instead and take shots away from Manu and Parker. You know a turnover is waiting to happened and missed freethrows too if Bowen starts going outside his role. He just doesn't have the skills that a Manu or Parker has. What do you think Pop will do to him? Invite him to his Doghouse and see if he snaps out of it. Malik never did and that's what made the trade a lot easier cause he hardly ever played anymore.

[TheWriter]

I've never seen such a thread where one dumbass is getting his ass kicked in an argument yet does not give up.

Bravo!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Steadiness - Edge Nazr

Malik was hot and cold. Nazr's game is more likely to be steady.


Sticking to your role - Edge Nazr

Every player on the team has a primary role. Malik didn't/wouldn't get this. This is what killed him. He would have a few excellent games going outside his role. He would have total cluster fuck games going outside his role. Ultimately Pop couldn't rely on him.


Fitting the system - Big edge Nazr

Post players on the Spurs need to be able to shut down the post. Block or contest shots. Malik couldn't.

Well picnroll about covered it. The only thing I have to add is that Nazr doesn't need "touches" on offense to get his points - he gets them off the offensive glass, whereas Rose felt that whenever he caught the ball, it was shoot first, shoot second, shoot third, and then once in a great while the fourth option changed from shooting to passing. Not what you need out of post men not named Tim.

[whottt]

Well picnroll about covered it. The only thing I have to add is that Nazr doesn't need "touches" on offense to get his points - he gets them off the offensive glass, whereas Rose felt that whenever he caught the ball, it was shoot first, shoot second, shoot third, and then once in a great while the fourth option changed from shooting to passing. Not what you need out of post men not named Tim.

We can't run plays to give Nazr touches...he has no freaking post game..or jumpshot. I wasn't a big fan of that offense either though so I am not argue with you on this point...I didn't like it either...and I still don't.

And get real about Nazr's steadiness...the guy has had a couple of good games...he's also sucked and failed to even be effective at garbage work...go tell the Knicks he was steady...he's never been steady in his entire career...his seasons go all over the place in just about every area.


Basically Nazr does one thing better than Malik for certain...and that's garbage work.

Don't give me this stuff on passing, Nazr has averaged more minutes per game than Malik in his career and has one of the worst assist per game totals ever. Keep it real.

[picnroll]

Basically Nazr does one thing better than Malik for certain...and that's garbage work.


Nazr is a better man on and off the ball defender than Malik. He is a better post defender. He is a better shot blocker/alterer. He now understands the system some and will understand it even better as the playoffs progress. That's not a fluke. It's not something that comes and goes like Malik's J.

[whottt]

It's also something he's done for 1 game....

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Basically Nazr does one thing better than Malik for certain...and that's garbage work.

That's all we need out of any of our post players not named Tim.

As for defense, Nazr's played better D on a perennial matchup problem for the Spurs in Pau Gasol than Malik could have come up with on his PS2.

[picnroll]

Nope. He did it against Portland. He did it some against Utah (he was not the one abused by Okur). He did it some against the Clips. He's showing steady progress. He's not wandering around on D looking lost. His help defense, showing then getting back to his man, is near Robinsonesque as I said before.

[td4mvp21]

We can't run plays to give Nazr touches...he has no freaking post game..or jumpshot. I wasn't a big fan of that offense either though so I am not argue with you on this point...I didn't like it either...and I still don't.

And get real about Nazr's steadiness...the guy has had a couple of good games...he's also sucked and failed to even be effective at garbage work...go tell the Knicks he was steady...he's never been steady in his entire career...his seasons go all over the place in just about every area.


Basically Nazr does one thing better than Malik for certain...and that's garbage work.

Don't give me this stuff on passing, Nazr has averaged more minutes per game than Malik in his career and has one of the worst assist per game totals ever. Keep it real.

8 points, 8 rebounds, 5 blocks......why are you complaining? He's done that the past several games, too. Don't know if Malik could have done that........

[whottt]

Right, the standings were updated faster than I thought. As I said though, winning those put them in a virtual dead heat with GS and Toronto.

I'm just not sure Zeke's job is so secure as to justify a tank job.


I know what you think Zeke should be doing but if you think his edict from MGMT is to get under the cap and rebuild you are way off base...Cutting payrole immediately will not get them under the cap...their concern is not getting under the cap, you won't ever see them under the cap...the ways they have of aquiring talent are taking on salary, trades, and draft, and they are doing all those things...Isiah got them back into the post season in his first year and he's upgraded the talent tremendously...He has one edict...and that's to win. But no I don't think they expected him to solve the Knicks preexisting problems in a year and a half...only a Chump thinks that.

Stop looking at the Knicks situation as if it is the Spurs...they don't have to go the small market route and their fan base wouldn't go for it anyway...besides...that route hasn't didn't work too quickly for the Bulls..and it hasn't worked for the Hawks...or the Clippers, ever.

And who knows what their goal is with that lottery pick...I don't think they want Bogut anyway, I think they want Taft and if they can't get him I think they'll try to do a trade for a Superstar.



Anatomy of a tank job:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/gameupdate?gameId=250417018

Check out the fouls and remember they were playing a back to back.

If I was tanking the last fucking guy I would want on the court was Malik Rose...yes he might suck...but he won't quit and if he has his a game he can put up numbers better than Nazr has on his best day.

On top of that, they are doing everything they can to limit his effectiveness...they got him playing 20 feet away from the basket...they put his ass on LeBron James the other night...and they won!

In the other game Ariza got DNPCD with no explanation....

They are tanking it but you can't just be blatant about it, and if you over do it in NY the fans go apeshit and call for your head...and you can't just come out to the players and tell them to tank...you'll ruin them for the future and get in a lot of trouble if someone breaks the news...You are looking for obvious signs of a tank and teams don't do it in obvious ways. They deal themselves a bad hand and try to win with it...that's how it is done.

[spurster]

Wow. I'm starting to think that Malik is even better than the Coyote.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

lol, Malik's DNP-CDs were all a plot by Pop to get rid of an overplayed role player.

Now it happens in NY, and it's all a plot for the #1 pick :lol

Only you whott, only you...

[whottt]

So Aggie...are you revising history now to where Malik didn't/doesn't even play hard?

Keep hating...it's making you stupid.

[ChumpDumper]

I know what you think Zeke should be doing but if you think his edict from MGMT is to get under the cap and rebuild you are way off base.Never said it was. Zekes just going to keep trading - he'll trade those picks he got too.
Isiah got them back into the post season in his first year and he's upgraded the talent tremendously.And took them right back out of the postseason.
He has one edict...and that's to win.And so he's losing on purpose now. Got it.
But no I don't think they expected him to solve the Knicks preexisting problems in a year and a half.Did they expect going backwards, increasing payroll and losing out on playoff revenue?
On top of that, they are doing everything they can to limit his effectiveness...they got him playing 20 feet away from the basket.Wasn't he supposed to be good from there?
They are tanking it but you can't just be blatant about itBeating Indy? Beating Cleveland?
Check out the fouls and remember they were playing a back to back. Wait. Are you saying they were instructed to foul? Doesn't that go against everything you said about the players not being told anything? Make up your mind.

Players give up when they have nothing else to play for. Every Knick worth a crap is under contract for the Knicks or assured a contract for next season. Atlanta is full of guys playing for their next contract or option -- which group has any impetus to put in a good effort? To be more judicious with their fouls? Two of Atlanta's most productive players tonight were Lue and Diaw. Lue is a free agent this summer and Diaw is up to have his option taken by the team. Add two hungry rookies and you've got all the incentive necessary to knock off a bunch of vets who all have at least $12 million left on their deals and whose biggest decision this summer will be which palm tree to nap under.

[whottt]

.And took them right back out of the postseason.

Shit happens...he's done more in his year and a half than Layden for most of his career.



And so he's losing on purpose now.

Yeah dipshit because he can't make the playoffs. Damn you fucking stupid...



Got it.Did they expect going backwards, increasing payroll and losing out on playoff revenue?

It's not a one or the other option...I gurantee you they weren't expecting to trim payroll this year though.



Wasn't he supposed to be good from there?

He is good but a non idiot would realize that making a positon change is kind of a big deal.



Beating Indy? Beating Cleveland?

Losing to Atlanta? To Toronto?

Which way do you think is more likely to appease the fans on the way to the lottery? The players aren't tanking.



Wait. Are you saying they were instructed to foul? Doesn't that go against everything you said about the players not being told anything? Make up your mind.

And so begins Chump putting words(stupid words that only he could concieve of) into my mouth yet again....and then making an equally stupid response to his own stupid words and claiming scoreboard...


Idiot...I didn't say the players were instructed to foul...you are just too dense to come up with any other meaning behind those fouls...I'll watch you toil in stupidity for a while before deciding whether or not to give you the relevance behind those fouls and what they may be indicative of...at which point you will then continue to be stupid and split hairs or not get it.


Players give up when they have nothing else to play for. Every Knick worth a crap is under contract for the Knicks or assured a contract for next season. Atlanta is full of guys playing for their next contract or option -- which group has any impetus to put in a good effort?

Then why did the Knicks beat Cleveland and Toronto? Contradict yourself much?



Add two hungry rookies and you've got all the incentive necessary to knock off a bunch of vets who all have at least $12 million left on their deals and whose biggest decision this summer will be which palm tree to nap under.

They are the worst team in the NBA asshat...you are the one talking about how the Knicks were bumping off Cleveland...which team do you think is better?

[ChumpDumper]

Shit happens...he's done more in his year and a half than Layden for most of his career.And it's still pretty substandard. If you compare a piece of shit to a bigger piece of shit, you are still pimping a piece of shit.
Which way do you think is more likely to appease the fans on the way to the lottery?They haven't given a shit about fans in years.
And so begins Chump putting words(stupid that only he could concieve) into my mouth yet again.


Idiot...I didn't say the players were instructed to foul...you are just too dense to come up with any other meaning behind those fouls...I'll watch you toil in stupidity for a while before deciding whether or not to give you the relevance behind those fouls and what they may be indicative of.Vets mailing it in. So that just supports my point about them. Thanks.
Then why did the Knicks beat Cleveland and Toronto? Contradict yourself much? I never said the Knicks didn't suck -- there is no contradiction there -- they sucked before and after the trade. But the all-important fan! Which one would they undertstand throwing more if they didn't suck enough to throw games against supposedly shittier teams? Contradict yourself much?

They are the worst team in the NBA asshat...you are the one talking about how the Knicks were bumping off Cleveland...which team do you think is better?Exactly.

[whottt]

And it's still pretty substandard. If you compare a piece of shit to a bigger piece of shit, you are still pimping a piece of shit.
Only an idiot would think the Knicks could be straightened out in a season and a half.


They haven't given a shit about fans in years.

That's not true...they do care about their fans which is why the carry the highest payroll in the league...

They have a different breed of fan...they cannot use the financially strapped excuse and their fucking fans know it...and that's why you won't ever a see a conventional(and just as ineffective) rebuild in New York...and that's why even now they rank 7th in the NBA in attendance.



Vets mailing it in. So that just supports my point about them. Thanks.I never said the Knicks didn't suck -- there is no contradiction there -- they sucked before and after the trade. But the all-important fan! Which one would they undertstand throwing more if they didn't suck enough to throw games against supposedly shittier teams? Contradict yourself much?Exactly.

No, but if you are going to lose knocking off a playoff team along the way does more to satisfy the fans than losing to them and beating the lottery teams...

Your point is totally contradictory...I am the one who said let's see what happens in the next two games...guess what? They lost to the worst team in the NBA at home....let's see what they do next...let's see if there are more curious injury abscences positional changes....or decisions to play washed up no game vets over promising rookies who played a big role in their surge.

[ChumpDumper]

Only an idiot would think the Knicks could be straightened out in a season and a half. A bigger idiot would call going backwards progress.
That's not true...they do care about their fans which is why the carry the highest payroll in the league.Which is why they actively choose to throw home games against the worst team in the league. Make up your mind again.
Your point is totally contradictory.As are all of yours.
I am the one who said let's see what happens in the next two games...guess what? They lost to the worst team in the NBA at home.Guess what? They suck and are capable of losing any game. If they were just flipping switches to beat playoff teams then they would've been a playoff team. Next you'll be saying Malik's injury is faked.

Oops, you just did.

[whottt]

A bigger idiot would call going backwards progress.
An even bigger idiot would think that going backwards this season was in the control of the FO and GM.



Which is why they actively choose to throw home games against the worst team in the league. Make up your mind again.

That's to make sure they get a good draft position.



As are all of yours.

Mine make total sense...you are just unable to grasp them...and the sky is blue.


Guess what? They suck and are capable of losing any game. If they were just flipping switches to beat playoff teams then they would've been a playoff team. Next you'll be saying Malik's injury is faked.

Oops, you just did.

Yeah cuz teams never fudge on injuries or are overstate them, now do they?

Did you ask fucking Manu how his stomache felt against Golden State? What an obtuse ass you are.

It's something that's easy to manipulate going outside of the players and coaches...


I can think of at least two mystery injuries that the Knicks haven't totally explained...one with Thomas(that aided in a monster losing streak) and the other other with Ariza....all it takes is a partial injury or philosophical change from the FO...

I can't believe you are actually fucking acting like teams don't tank. Get fucking real. None of them do it obviously. The Knicks can't go from being a game and a half out of the playoffs to a 30 game losing streak without raising just a couple of eyes you moron. If they set the NBA record for consecutive losses would you be convinced? TARD! Everyone else would be also.

[ChumpDumper]

An even bigger idiot would think that going backwards this season was in the control of the FO and GM.It isn't? They aren't resposible for anything? They have no effect on the team at all? Then don't give them any credit if things go right either, hypocrite.
That's to make sure they get a good draft position.And the winning helps that too, right?
Yeah cuz teams never fudge on injuries or are overstate them, now do they?Say it right now. Get off the fence and say it's fake. And then say Malik is going along with it. And then backtrack.

[whottt]

It isn't? They aren't resposible for anything? They have no effect on the team at all? Then don't give them any credit if things go right either, hypocrite.

There are no absolutes...sometimes the FO is at fault and sometimes what happens is out of their control.



And the winning helps that too, right?

I already explained it to you..Isiah is not going to just walk into the huddle and say ok boys let's tank...

You deal yourself or the coach a bad hand and then let them try and win with it...you say don't play Ariza I want Jerome to develop his game and shoot his 1 foot J from 14 feet tonight...Let's see how Malik does against LeBron...shit like that.


I bet you think Pop was trying to win when he fired his coach and hired Dominique "the human ,and ancient, lottery ball" Wilkins...


Say it right now. Get off the fence and say it's fake. And then say Malik is going along with it. And then backtrack.

Again you exhibit a glaring lack of imagination. Malik has no voice in if he plays or not, all it takes is a slight tweak and the doctor/trainer being "protective" under orders from the GM to keep him out of the lineup...What we will never truly know is if Malik could have played or not...just don't try and tell me that teams don't overstate or flat out fabricate injuries or that it isn't a part of evry day life...

Don't tell me that Pop's fucking with the rotation while he was complaining about too many easy blowout wins was intended to make it easier for us to win at that time....and if you try and say it you'll be arguing with Sean Elliott as well.

[vincerodriguez23]

I think the trade with Mohammed and Rose, both teams are gettin what they wanted. Malik is contributing for the Knicks just as much as Nazr has with the Spurs. I feel bad for Malik that he has to sit out for the playoffs.

[ChumpDumper]

There are no absolutes...sometimes the FO is at fault and sometimes what happens is out of their control.
An even bigger idiot would think that going backwards this season was in the control of the FO and GM.For the love of God, make up your mind.[/QUOTE]Malik has no voice in if he plays or not all it takes is a slight tweak and the doctor being protective to keep him out of the lineup...what we will never truly know is if Malik could have played or not.[/QUOTE]Malik knows, and Malik can speak.
Don't tell me that Pop's fucking with the rotation while he was complaining about too many easy blowouts wins was designed to make it easier for us to win at that time.He was tanking. He wanted to lose HCA all year long.

[whottt]

For the love of God, make up your mind.

There was absolutely no contradiction in those two statements. I don't think Isiah wanted the Knicks to suck until they were out of the playoffs. I think he tried to win and due to things like...Nazr Mohammed sucking ass for all of January...and Tim Thomas having familial problems...that the team just spiraled down, he tried to fix it and he couldn't...how fucking hard is that shit to realize? Do you not have a brain cells worth of common sense?


Malik knows, and Malik can speak.

Malik's not a podiatrist...





He was tanking. He wanted to lose HCA all year long.

Did I say that? He definitely wanted closer games....and I am not so sure he does want HCA throughout the playoffs for some reason...he certainly hasn't done every thing in his power to get it...maybe he wants our pick to be before the Knicks pick...maybe he wants that 2 ssed draw or maybe he is just being "disclipined" with Duncan's PT...but I believe that you yourself made note of the fact that Duncan should have been on the court on the last defensive posession of that Utah game...

[ChumpDumper]

There was absolutely no contradiction in those two statements. I don't think Isiah wanted the Knicks to suck until they were out of the playoffs. I think he tried to win and due to things like...Nazr Mohammed sucking ass for all of January...and Tim Thomas having familial problems.but he got those guys, right? Blameless if it's bad -- all the credit if it's good. As long as it fits the agenda.
Did I say that? He definitely wanted closer games....and I am not so sure he does want HCA throughout the playoffs for some reason...he certainly hasn't done every thing in his power to get it...maybe he wants our pick to be before the Knicks pick...maybe he wants that draw.Stay right on that fence.
but I believe that you yourself made note of the fact that Duncan should have been on the court on the last defensive posession of that Utah game...You believe wrong. Again. Duncan was done. That had to do with Duncan and nothing else. I was against the small ball lineup. Nazr with Horry would've sufficed.

[ZStomp]

Who cares about the #1 seed.

The Spurs will do fine with or without the #1 seed.

Believe.

[whottt]

but he got those guys, right? Blameless if it's bad -- all the credit if it's good.
Whatever...just be sure you lable RC as sucking for getting Nazr...and be sure to be more critical of that trade in the future...since you criticize Isiah for it...and I'm sure Tim Thomas and Isiah would have preferrreed his relatives not die...



as it fits the agenda.Stay right on that fence.
I am on the fence with that...since you were critical of it too what do you think he was doing in that game? Being stupid?

You get off the fence.


Duncan was done. That had to do with Duncan and nothing else. I was against the small ball lineup. Nazr with Horry would've sufficed.

Prove it...I can show you quotes where Duncan was trying to stay in the game...

[ChumpDumper]

Whatever...just be sure you lable RC as sucking for getting Nazr.And if it works, you give him props right? Fat chance.
Prove it...I can show you quotes where Duncan was trying to stay in the game...We're talking about what I said, dumbass. Not Duncan. I said it was about Duncan because of Duncan's health and his schedule for recovery. He was done because the schedule said so, not some secret agenda for making games more difficult. You really aren't very bright.

[whottt]

Answer the fucking question or STFU...and go fix that response that you mangled in the other thread.

[ChumpDumper]

You should ask the question first.

[whottt]

It's already been asked...why do you think Pop put that lineup on the floor at the end of the Utah game...you know, the one you were critical of...You answer the fucking question.

This oughta be good.

[ChumpDumper]

why do you think Pop put that lineup on the floor at the end of the Utah game.There are all kinds of reasons for going with the lineup he did. He had to consider Duncan's injury, the matchups, the players he was integrating into the lineup trying to see what they could do in this situation for the future and the kinds of plays the Jazz were having success with late. He took all that into consideration and that's what he decided. He wasn't really allowing for Manu to get beat and the Jazz having time for a rebound and putback. It's easy to second guess after seeing what happened, so what?

Now get off the fence and say Pop tanked that finish because he didn't want HCA or STFU.

[whottt]

There are all kinds of reasons for going with the lineup he did. He had to consider Duncan's injury, the matchups, the players he was integrating into the lineup trying to see what they could do in this situation for the future and the kinds of plays the Jazz were having success with late. He took all that into consideration and that's what he decided. He wasn't really allowing for Manu to get beat and the Jazz having time for a rebound and putback. It's easy to second guess after seeing what happened, so what?

I should have known....:rolleyes


Now get off the fence and say Pop tanked that finish because he didn't want HCA or STFU.

I am certain his major motivation was not HCA, I am certain of this since he has admitted it's not as important to him as entering the playoffs healthy...and that certainly fits some definitions of tank.

Even according to you the reason could have been some kind of stupid fucking experimentation with HCA at stake...that's still a certain definition of tank...or not doing everything in your power to win.

But for all I know he might actively not want to be in the top spot...maybe the Spurs have someone in mind with their draft pick and don't want Isiah snagging him...maybe they don't want to be in that 1 bracket, it's definitely the less friendly bracket. Maybe he actually wants the Nuggets or Rockets in the first round...


But to get back on topic...I get what you are saying...Teams never tank.

[picnroll]

Who cares about the #1 seed.

The Spurs will do fine with or without the #1 seed.

Believe.
Spurs will be 2005 NBA champions and Whott will still be bitching "yeah but they could have been the one seed if they had kept Malik".

[whottt]

I won't bitch if they win the title. I don't hate the Spurs, I love the Spurs. I don't hate Pop he just does some stuff that really pisses me off sometimes that I just don't get. And I just don't like that trade, and it's not because of sentimentality.