Matt Bonner and Michael Finley Talk

[booonkers]

Hey guys, maybe we can all put in our thoughts on Matt and Finley here. I think it's fair to say that they won't be going anywhere anytime soon so I think we should have a thread dedicated to sharing our thoughts and opinions on them throughout the season.

I wanna say that I'm quite disappointed that these two guys are still starting and playing significant minutes. I know I know, I'm not panicking or anything, I just really wish that as the season progresses their minutes decline and they should only be used on situations where they thrive.

Just wanna ask, what do you think the reasons are why Pop keeps playing them? I presume it's cos they know the system and what not, I guess I just don't share the same enthusiasm as Pop. I wish he'd eventually increase the minutes of the younger and better players.

Last year I was feeling really frustrated with these guys getting so many minutes, summer came with all these new additions I thought it's gonna change. Preseason came, Matt Bonner played the most minutes. It gets frustrating but I still believe that Pop will find the right combination of players and I do hope that it won't be too much of these two guys.

[booonkers]

Oh and I don't hate these guys, I know that there are situations wherein they are a good fit, but I just don't like the amount of minutes they are playing right now.

[CubanSucks]

current coach-4 championships

you-0 championships


I trust Pop isn't playing Finley and Bonner for any other reason besides wanting to win games, and I trust that he knows a WHOLE lot more about winning games than anyone watching from the stands or their couch

[JustinJDW]

To be honest, I don't mind Bonner starting. I hated it at first, but it fits our style of play. Having Bonner start and then McDyess and Blair come in later to keep the pressure. That's good. I just wish the Spurs would post McDyess up more, rather than just always taking jump shots. That's what we have Bonner for.

As for Finley, I don't understand why he is starting. Is it for Defense or something? We should start Roger Mason. Yeah, I know Roger brings good energy off the Bench, but I think Ginobili, Blair and Hill bring enough of that already. We want a strong Bench, but we can't be taking away too much from our Starting Lineup.

This is how things should be.

C: Matt Bonner/Antonio McDyess/Theo Ratliff
PF: Tim Duncan/Dejuan Blair
SF: Richard Jefferson/Michael Finley
SG: Roger Mason/Manu Ginobili/Keith Bogans
PG: Tony Parker/George Hill

Besides, isn't this Finley's last year? Shouldn't we be slowly easing him out of the rotation rather than starting him? Still though, he should get minutes. I love all the different combinations we have on the floor and how we bring different things to the table.

No matter what the lineup may be though, I trust Pop, and I know whatever decision he makes is probably the right one, because he is the NBA Coach, not me. Lol.

[booonkers]

current coach-4 championships

you-0 championships


I trust Pop isn't playing Finley and Bonner for any other reason besides wanting to win games, and I trust that he knows a WHOLE lot more about winning games than anyone watching from the stands or their couch

Why don't you relax a bit? I didn't say I want Pop to be fired or anything. This is a thread where we can share our opinions on what they do. It's not like I'm saying he sucks ass I should be the coach so please just chill.

Instead of spewing crap like that why don't you just explain why you think Pop is doing what he's doing right now? That would contribute more to this thread.

[Solid D]

or when the Spurs go small:

C: Jefferson
PF: Duncan
SF: Ginobili
SG: Hill
PG: Parker

I put Jefferson at Center because people get offended when we call Timmy a Center. :smokin

[booonkers]

To be honest, I don't mind Bonner starting. I hated it at first, but it fits our style of play. Having Bonner start and then McDyess and Blair come in later to keep the pressure. That's good. I just wish the Spurs would post McDyess up more, rather than just always taking jump shots. That's what we have Bonner for.

As for Finley, I don't understand why he is starting. Is it for Defense or something? We should start Roger Mason. Yeah, I know Roger brings good energy off the Bench, but I think Ginobili, Blair and Hill bring enough of that already. We want a strong Bench, but we can't be taking away too much from our Starting Lineup.

This is how things should be.

C: Matt Bonner/Antonio McDyess/Theo Ratliff
PF: Tim Duncan/Dejuan Blair
SF: Richard Jefferson/Michael Finley
SG: Roger Mason/Manu Ginobili/Keith Bogans
PG: Tony Parker/George Hill

Besides, isn't this Finley's last year? Shouldn't we be slowly easing him out of the rotation rather than starting him? Still though, he should get minutes. I love all the different combinations we have on the floor and how we bring different things to the table.

No matter what the lineup may be though, I trust Pop, and I know whatever decision he makes is probably the right one, because he is the NBA Coach, not me. Lol.

At first I was actually okay with Bonner starting. He does spread the floor for Timmy but then I realized that on defense, Timmy would be on his own. Having Bonner and Finley starting at the same time doesn't make sense. Them being lights out shooters gets negated by the points they give up on the other end. I feel that both of them shouldn't be on the floor at the same time.

I just wish Pop would go back to defense first and we might not get there with both these guys on the starting line up. I like Mason on the starting line up better than Finley. As for Bonner, there are some games where it's okay to start him but also other games where it's better to start Dyess or even Blair depending on the match up.

I don't like the feeling of playing against the other teams' starters (starters usually being the best players on the team) with these two guys as our starters. Knowing Pop though, I know the starting line up would be quite wonky so maybe one of them will be out of it by March. But I guess we should trust Pop. He knows what to do. I just hope it's not like last year but to be fair to him we didn't have the pieces we have now.

[booonkers]

or when the Spurs go small:

C: Jefferson
PF: Duncan
SF: Ginobili
SG: Hill
PG: Parker

I put Jefferson at Center because people get offended when we call Timmy a Center. :smokin
Haha I'd rather have Blair than Hill on the starting line up though. Or maybe Mcdyess. Manu should be fine coming off the bench. There's only one ball to share.

[lennyalderette]

To be honest, I don't mind Bonner starting. I hated it at first, but it fits our style of play. Having Bonner start and then McDyess and Blair come in later to keep the pressure. That's good. I just wish the Spurs would post McDyess up more, rather than just always taking jump shots. That's what we have Bonner for.

As for Finley, I don't understand why he is starting. Is it for Defense or something? We should start Roger Mason. Yeah, I know Roger brings good energy off the Bench, but I think Ginobili, Blair and Hill bring enough of that already. We want a strong Bench, but we can't be taking away too much from our Starting Lineup.

This is how things should be.

C: Matt Bonner/Antonio McDyess/Theo Ratliff
PF: Tim Duncan/Dejuan Blair
SF: Richard Jefferson/Michael Finley
SG: Roger Mason/Manu Ginobili/Keith Bogans
PG: Tony Parker/George Hill

Besides, isn't this Finley's last year? Shouldn't we be slowly easing him out of the rotation rather than starting him? Still though, he should get minutes. I love all the different combinations we have on the floor and how we bring different things to the table.

No matter what the lineup may be though, I trust Pop, and I know whatever decision he makes is probably the right one, because he is the NBA Coach, not me. Lol.


+1
except trade keith for hairston, and put haislip behind blair

[Solid D]

Haha I'd rather have Blair than Hill on the starting line up though. Or maybe Mcdyess. Manu should be fine coming off the bench. There's only one ball to share.

Well, my list wasn't the starting lineup...just one of Pop's in-game lineups he used during pre-season that looked real good.

[booonkers]

Oh sorry I missed that. It's actually a good line-up. Wish he'd do it IN the season. It's good to mix and match.

[KenziE]

no idea whats up with that strategy (finley/ bonner starting) but i have a feeling it will be changed up soon .... i think the bulls game was an eye opener for POP ( i hope) .... better to start losing this early (not a lot tho) so the earlier they can sort out things for the better

[booonkers]

no idea whats up with that strategy (finley/ bonner starting) but i have a feeling it will be changed up soon .... i think the bulls game was an eye opener for POP ( i hope) .... better to start losing this early (not a lot tho) so the earlier they can sort out things for the better

Sure hope that'll be the case this season. I'll give Pop some time. Last year was really frustrating but as I said earlier, we didn't have the pieces we have now. Let's see how he responds this season. I agree it's good to lose early so they can sort things out a lot earlier.

[Solid D]

no idea whats up with that strategy (finley/ bonner starting) but i have a feeling it will be changed up soon .... i think the bulls game was an eye opener for POP ( i hope) .... better to start losing this early (not a lot tho) so the earlier they can sort out things for the better

Well, it's been discussed in dozens of threads already, but it spaces the floor for Timmy and also for Parker's drives. It's a hub and spoke approach. It works for screen/rolls and also with the 4-out, 1-in motion offense they run. Since Fin and Bonner are good three point shooters, thus drawing some of the lane protection away from the inside, Pop goes with them. It worked well during the pre-season or whenever they are hitting their shots, but when they aren't hitting (Bulls game), the topic becomes a hot one, again.

This team has been averaging 20 3-point attempts per game since 2006-07 because their defense hasn't been that great. Pop feels the need for more 3s and offensive spacing for ease of scoring.

Hopefully the defense will improve with the new additions and Pop won't feel compelled to give major minutes to Bonner and Fin.

[TJastal]

"Hopefully the defense will improve with the new additions and Pop won't feel compelled to give major minutes to Bonner and Fin.

The defense would improve immediately if Popovich simply chose not to play either one, much less give them starting jobs.

That would be a good start.

Finley couldn't keep up with Deng or anyone to save his life the other day, and Bonner offers ZERO help defense and ZERO interior presence.

Combine that with the fact that Duncan can barely jump anymore and its easy to see how an athletic young team like the bulls can beat the spurs all day long on hustle and athleticism alone. Popovich needs to stop relying on all the old goats and start using his younger players, not only because they are more effective against teams like the bulls, but they represent the future and the present. All they lack is the experience to get better.

Its time to put Finley to pasture and Bonner on a seriously short leash. Guys like Blair and Hill need to get WAY more minutes than 17 and 13. Haislip, Mahinmi, and Hairston were recruited and given spots on the team to match up with athletic teams.. what's the point of having them on IR or getting DNP's against those kind of teams.

This shit is getting old, and tiring fast.

[Mel_13]

This shit is getting old, and tiring fast.

Your constant droning certainly is.

[TJastal]

Your constant droning certainly is.

Shucks. I was waiting for one one of your famous "Finley and Bonner should start because nobody else is better" rebuttal speeches

[Mel_13]

Shucks. I was waiting for one one of your famous "Finley and Bonner should start because nobody else is better" rebuttal speeches

Find where I've ever said that. If you ever got off your blind hate and read any other POV, you would understand.

[ceperez]

So far, judging form the preseason games and the last two games that:

(1) Bonner shooting percentages are up and he's become better at driving to the basket.
(2) Finley is as good in shape as last season and his 3point shot that he displayed last season is still there.

So these two guys are playing beyond expectations.

I would rather have Bonner or Finley take an open 3 point shot than Parker or Manu. The percentages are just so much higher.

The Spurs play the percentages and will always look for that open 3 point shot. The only two guys however who can make a contested 3 point shot with a high percentage are Mason and RJ. However, rarely should this be attempted unless you need to at the end of the game.

[Supreme_Being]

I'm okay with Bonner starting. But Finley? No. Not okay.

[ceperez]

I think certain players play well together. Finley and RJ on the court at the same time is one of them.

[TJastal]

So far, judging form the preseason games and the last two games that:

(1) Bonner shooting percentages are up and he's become better at driving to the basket.
(2) Finley is as good in shape as last season and his 3point shot that he displayed last season is still there.

So these two guys are playing beyond expectations.

I would rather have Bonner or Finley take an open 3 point shot than Parker or Manu. The percentages are just so much higher.

The Spurs play the percentages and will always look for that open 3 point shot. The only two guys however who can make a contested 3 point shot with a high percentage are Mason and RJ. However, rarely should this be attempted unless you need to at the end of the game.

ceperez, dude, wtf you used to make sense. Matt Bonner is becoming better at driving to the basket? What games are you watching? Every time he's dribbled the ball towards the basket so far this year with an exception of a running hook shot that needed god's help to go in has resulted in him doing a 180 and looking to pass the ball back out to the perimeter, after getting swarmed with defenders.

[ceperez]

ceperez, dude, wtf you used to make sense. Matt Bonner is becoming better at driving to the basket? What games are you watching? Every time he's dribbled the ball towards the basket so far this year with an exception of a running hook shot that needed god's help to go in has resulted in him doing a 180 and looking to pass the ball back out to the perimeter, after getting swarmed with defenders.

I stand by my assessment. He was horrible last season, he's a bit better now. Good enough, well we will have to see.

[booonkers]

I do understand what Pop is doing with Bonner and Fin, to basically put more spacing on offense but has he forgotten about defense? Last year, there wasn't much he can do but this year we have younger players who can actually play better defense than these two guys. Even without Bowen, this team can play great team defense, we now have these young cats who can defend better than Bonner and Fin. I guess that's what's kinda frustrating about this thing. It's okay for these two guys to play but not at the same time and certainly not with the minutes they are getting.

I honestly feel that the Spurs still need to focus more on D now. Last year, with our awful pieces we were still in the top 10 in terms of D. Now, with all these new additions, we can go back to playing elite defense.

[ceperez]

I do understand what Pop is doing with Bonner and Fin, to basically put more spacing on offense but has he forgotten about defense? Last year, there wasn't much he can do but this year we have younger players who can actually play better defense than these two guys. Even without Bowen, this team can play great team defense, we now have these young cats who can defend better than Bonner and Fin. I guess that's what's kinda frustrating about this thing. It's okay for these two guys to play but not at the same time and certainly not with the minutes they are getting.


Well true... no great defense... no championship.

I've never been too thrilled with the Spurs changes ever since we lost to the Mavs in 2006. That's when we benched both Nazr and Rasho. That's when we decided on the small ball game.

Now teams know that to get an easy point against the spurs, you alley hoop it to the rim when Duncan plays help defense on you. Nobody on the other side is going to be tall enough to stop you big from an easy layup.

You also know you can post the Spurs PF, because he's likely to be undersized or is a SF.

Just too many holes that's not going to be compensated by superior 3 point shooting.

And speaking about 3 point shooting, we can only make them well if we aren't covered. Athletic quick teams that aggressively pursue our shooters tend to shut them down. That's the recipe for shutting the spurs down, just get a whole bunch of 6'7" athletic type guys to shut down 3 point shooting. Manu and Parker's penetrations our not going to compensate for the lack of defense on the other end.

It's a pathetic situation and we've had it for the last couple of seasons.

When Horry was around, teams couldn't shut down the 3point because he was long enough to get if off even with a guy rushing him. That's why the Magic were in the finals and not the Cavs. The Magic shut down the Cavs smaller guards at the same time took 3 point shots uncontested.

An uncontested open 3 point shot is always better than a contested mid range jumper. The only way to get it uncontested with playoff calibre defense is to have a much taller player (i.e. Dirk, Turkulu, Wallace, Lewis, etc.) take it on top of a smaller opponent. That's why guys like Mason are going to disappear in the playoffs.

[ginobilized]

Bonner and Finley are starting for a couple of reasons: 1. They each know the system and are there to help ensure proper spacing 2. They are returning vets and Pop always gives the starting job to these types of players. The starting job is theirs to lose. That's fair I think.

It's a long season and I'd be surprised to see this starting lineup in May or even February. I must say when I saw the Spurs in preseason Bonner and Finley looked sharp, esp. Bonner.

[ceperez]

I must say when I saw the Spurs in preseason Bonner and Finley looked sharp, esp. Bonner.

Agree.

The guy is playing with a lot of confidence.

[Mel_13]

Now teams know that to get an easy point against the spurs, you alley hoop it to the rim when Duncan plays help defense on you. Nobody on the other side is going to be tall enough to stop you big from an easy layup.

So the 2008 Hornets are the model to beat the Spurs


And speaking about 3 point shooting, we can only make them well if we aren't covered. Athletic quick teams that aggressively pursue our shooters tend to shut them down. That's the recipe for shutting the spurs down, just get a whole bunch of 6'7" athletic type guys to shut down 3 point shooting.

Or is the 2007 Warriors.


I've never been too thrilled with the Spurs changes ever since we lost to the Mavs in 2006.

Oh, right. It was the 2006 Mavs


It's a pathetic situation and we've had it for the last couple of seasons.

Well, we're doomed. I'm sending in my season ticket refund request today.

[ElNono]

So far, judging form the preseason games and the last two games that:

(1) Bonner shooting percentages are up and he's become better at driving to the basket.
(2) Finley is as good in shape as last season and his 3point shot that he displayed last season is still there.

So these two guys are playing beyond expectations.

I would rather have Bonner or Finley take an open 3 point shot than Parker or Manu. The percentages are just so much higher.

The Spurs play the percentages and will always look for that open 3 point shot. The only two guys however who can make a contested 3 point shot with a high percentage are Mason and RJ. However, rarely should this be attempted unless you need to at the end of the game.

This is great and all, but do you ever look at the OTHER end of the court?

[SpurNation]

It's definately the kink in the cogs.

Finley and Bonner have their positive attributes to make for the team. And while both in the game at the same time is tasking our defense too much. How does one account for the possibility of not playing them both at the same time?

Spacing the floor could be done just as effectively with a unit of Parker, Finley, Jefferson, RATLIFF and Duncan but produce a far more effective defensive unit.

I say Ratliff because...this will also contend with the development of Blair. As it stands now, Blair in the game neccissitates either McDyess or Duncan to play at the same time. If Blair improves his defensive abilities it just might be beneficial to even have Blair start and relegate McDyess and Bonner/Ratliff as a second unit depending on the situation of the game.

To start Duncan and McDyess would also provide a better defensive unit with socring abilities...but then your second unit would consist of Bonner/Ratliff and Blair? That scenerio would almost always negate any lead the starting unit might surmise. Scratch that.

As you can see...it's not that easy to decide even for a coach with the experience and knowledge Pop has in these situations.

So what's the lesser of the two situations...replacing the starting unit with unknown commodities at this time?...or leaving the situation as is until the development of said players improve?

[SamoanTD]

u cant have bonner and blair in the second unit they will have 0 interior defence it would be a lane the size of texas with those guys playing D on the inside at the same time thats y u gta have dyess come out with blair and bonner with duncan. Both dyess and duncan at least one of them gta be on the court at all times so we can have a presence on the inside. So rite nw I like the line up finley he could be interchangable depending on the lineups bt roger should start as SG and finley should be back up SF.

[SamoanTD]

and we should really use ratliff more. He proally doesnt knw the system well enough to play meaningfull minutes though. So I guess I trust pop knws wat hes doing though I mean he does have 4 rings lol

[Bruno]

Bonner and Finley aren't that bad players, they just don't fit with the team.

Spurs have 4 great offensive players (Parker, Duncan, Ginobili and Jefferson). Behind them they have some competent offensive players (Hill, Mason, Mcdyess and Blair). There is only one ball on the court and there aren't room for offensive minded players besides these 8 players. The rest of the bench should be filled with defensive minded players. Finley is likely a better player than Bogans but given Spurs roster, I rather see Bogans getting minutes.

[TJastal]

Bonner and Finley aren't that bad players, they just don't fit with the team.

Spurs have 4 great offensive players (Parker, Duncan, Ginobili and Jefferson). Behind them they have some competent offensive players (Hill, Mason, Mcdyess and Blair). There is only one ball on the court and there aren't room for offensive minded players besides these 8 players. The rest of the bench should be filled with defensive minded players. Finley is likely a better player than Bogans but given Spurs roster, I rather see Bogans getting minutes.

Exactly, Bruno.

I don't think its any coincidence that every time Bonner starts, RJ never gets any offensive rhythym. The ONE preseason game where Bonner didn't start RJ had his best game where he got his offense going.

[Mel_13]

Bonner and Finley aren't that bad players, they just don't fit with the team.

Spurs have 4 great offensive players (Parker, Duncan, Ginobili and Jefferson). Behind them they have some competent offensive players (Hill, Mason, Mcdyess and Blair). There is only one ball on the court and there aren't room for offensive minded players besides these 8 players. The rest of the bench should be filled with defensive minded players. Finley is likely a better player than Bogans but given Spurs roster, I rather see Bogans getting minutes.

Subtle as always. Interesting for what is left unsaid.

The Finley and Bonner situations are often lumped together, but they are different in one very significant way.

Finley:

Finley can be put in a suit behind the bench and be replaced with Malik on the active list. In that case, his minutes are easily distributed among Bogans, Hairston, Mason, and Hill. In three cases, the minutes are utilized by a player who is better defensively and does not need to shoot in order to contribute. Mason not so much, but he doesn't necessarily have to see an increase in minutes in a Finley-free scenario.


Bonner:

If you put Bonner in a suit behind the bench, you must replace him with one of Haislip/Mahinmi. Now your five active bigs are Duncan, McDyess, Blair, Ratliff, and Mahinmi/Haislip. The fourth big will get 15-20mpg in the regular season. Ratliff's recent history says he can't do that and giving Bonner's minutes to Haislip/Mahinmi would seem to make the team worse on both sides of the ball.

In short, I believe a reasonable solution to the Finley problem exists on the current roster. I don't see a similar solution to the Bonner problem. A solution to that problem, IMO, requires a trade.

[J Mack]

"Hopefully the defense will improve with the new additions and Pop won't feel compelled to give major minutes to Bonner and Fin.

The defense would improve immediately if Popovich simply chose not to play either one, much less give them starting jobs.

That would be a good start.

Finley couldn't keep up with Deng or anyone to save his life the other day, and Bonner offers ZERO help defense and ZERO interior presence.

Combine that with the fact that Duncan can barely jump anymore and its easy to see how an athletic young team like the bulls can beat the spurs all day long on hustle and athleticism alone. Popovich needs to stop relying on all the old goats and start using his younger players, not only because they are more effective against teams like the bulls, but they represent the future and the present. All they lack is the experience to get better.

Its time to put Finley to pasture and Bonner on a seriously short leash. Guys like Blair and Hill need to get WAY more minutes than 17 and 13. Haislip, Mahinmi, and Hairston were recruited and given spots on the team to match up with athletic teams.. what's the point of having them on IR or getting DNP's against those kind of teams.

This shit is getting old, and tiring fast.
damn ! couldnt have said it better myself !!! :ihit

[EmptyMan]

Fuck, our championship aspirations rest on Bonner's interior defense.


Oh well.

[ceperez]

Fuck, our championship aspirations rest on Bonner's interior defense.


Oh well.

My sentiments entirely.

If Mahinmi and Haislip can't contribute their length and athleticism then we definitely aren't going to win the championship.

The Spurs have to play them to see what they got. Now if we've already given up on them this season, then I really don't like our chances going forward with Finley and Bonner as our forwards.

[JustinJDW]

i'm okay with bonner starting. But finley? No. Not okay.+1.

[easy7]

I am still waiting to see about what they had to say when they talked...

[SamoanTD]

i wanna see fin and bonner produce aganist the kings lol

[HarlemHeat37]

TBH, I think you guys would be really surprised with Bonner's defense if he had stronger perimeter D up front, and quicker players that will rotate in time if we have to double Bonner's man at some points..

[booonkers]

Bonner and Finley aren't that bad players, they just don't fit with the team.

Spurs have 4 great offensive players (Parker, Duncan, Ginobili and Jefferson). Behind them they have some competent offensive players (Hill, Mason, Mcdyess and Blair). There is only one ball on the court and there aren't room for offensive minded players besides these 8 players. The rest of the bench should be filled with defensive minded players. Finley is likely a better player than Bogans but given Spurs roster, I rather see Bogans getting minutes.

This is exactly what I think as well. I mean we have a potent offense this season we honestly do not need Bonner's and Finley's offense. We have three prolific scorers in the starting line up with Timmy, RJ and Tony. I'd take d over o anytime.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

My sentiments entirely.

If Mahinmi and Haislip can't contribute their length and athleticism then we definitely aren't going to win the championship.

The Spurs have to play them to see what they got. Now if we've already given up on them this season, then I really don't like our chances going forward with Finley and Bonner as our forwards.

Are you seriosly implying that our title chances depend on Haislip and Mahinmi? Dude...

Bonner has been a much better defender than Blair and McDyess during the first 3 games, too early, I know, but you can't justify throwing Bonner out of the rotation as long as the guys who are behind him are worse.

Ditto for Fin, who would you give his minutes to? Mason? Surely he's not shooting better and he hasn't shown to be a better defender. Bogans is not ready yet and who knows how long it'd take him, deffinitely hasn't shown enough to warrant a place.

I'm very pleased with what I've seen from both Fin and Bonner so far this season.

[ceperez]

Are you seriosly implying that our title chances depend on Haislip and Mahinmi? Dude...

...

I'm very pleased with what I've seen from both Fin and Bonner so far this season.

Nothing really disappointing about Bonner and Finley's performance so far. Definitely much improved.

However... no chance winning the championship relying on their current and future potential in providing defense against the elite teams in the league. Just no chance... the weakness in the armor is just too easy to exploit.

The only way we may win is to outscore the opponent with high percentage 3 point shots... unfortunately that's not how the Spurs win.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Nothing really disappointing about Bonner and Finley's performance so far. Definitely much improved.

However... no chance winning the championship relying on their current and future potential in providing defense against the elite teams in the league. Just no chance... the weakness in the armor is just too easy to exploit.

The only way we may win is to outscore the opponent with high percentage 3 point shots... unfortunately that's not how the Spurs win.

I disagree, their roles are different and do not improve our defense as a whole, however, we expect from McDyess and RJ to step up in this department by the time the playoffs come. There's nothing wrong with starting and playing both for 15-20 minutes, they're good enough to hold their own, but how good our defense will be will not depend on their roles, it's not like we have great defenders on the bench waiting to take over.

Our defense this year is not going to be as good as it has been before, I think this is fairly obvious, however our offensive potential, and I don't only mean 3 pointers, is far greater than we've ever had. Good enough to live with having a good, albeit not great defense.

[mystargtr34]

TBH, I think you guys would be really surprised with Bonner's defense if he had stronger perimeter D up front, and quicker players that will rotate in time if we have to double Bonner's man at some points..

I dont know man... mentally i think he is fine, good defensive instincts, good anticipation and tenacty/willingness - but at the end of the day defense comes down to what you have physically, and he just doesn have the size, length or athleticism to be anything more than below average to average.

He fights for position well, and most of the time he stays with his man to be within contesting range, but when it comes to the most crucial part, getting a hand up in the shooters face, or near the ball to affect the shot - he just doesn't have it.

[ElNono]

There's nothing wrong with starting and playing both for 15-20 minutes, they're good enough to hold their own

Defensively? No way. The only way they can 'hold their own' is if their shots are falling... then they would be basically offsetting what they're giving up on the defensive end.


Our defense this year is not going to be as good as it has been before, I think this is fairly obvious, however our offensive potential, and I don't only mean 3 pointers, is far greater than we've ever had. Good enough to live with having a good, albeit not great defense.

This is where you and I completely disagree. The way you win championships is being able to make stops when it matters. In order to do that you need to be very solid defensively. I can't think of a NBA champion in recent memory that did not have solid defense overall. Especially in the paint.

[Mel_13]

Defensively? No way. The only way they can 'hold their own' is if their shots are falling... then they would be basically offsetting what they're giving up on the defensive end.



This is where you and I completely disagree. The way you win championships is being able to make stops when it matters. In order to do that you need to be very solid defensively. I can't think of a NBA champion in recent memory that did not have solid defense overall. Especially in the paint.

Good morning

[ElNono]

Good morning

:lol :wakeup

[Mel_13]

:lol :wakeup

:lol

I'd rather talk about bats.

[ElNono]

:lol

I'd rather talk about bats.

It's going to be a slow week with no games until Thursday...

[Mel_13]

It's going to be a slow week with no games until Thursday...

Well, there's gonna be a meltdown after the very likely loss to the Blazers on Friday. If it follows a loss to the Jazz, it will be of epic proportions.

A few days without dozens of "we're doomed" threads is just fine.

[ElNono]

Well, there's gonna be a meltdown after the very likely loss to the Blazers on Friday. If it follows a loss to the Jazz, it will be of epic proportions.

A few days without dozens of "we're doomed" threads is just fine.

But we ARE doomed!!! :lol

Actually, I think we can beat the Blazers... but I won't hold it against them if they do not...

[Mel_13]

But we ARE doomed!!! :lol

Actually, I think we can beat the Blazers... but I won't hold it against them if they do not...

You know I like to look things up. B2Bs involving Utah are among the worst. Over the last four years the Spurs have played in Utah three times as the first game of a B2B. They lost the second game all three times.

I know it's a small sample size, but not all B2Bs are created equal. This one, much like the Denver game last season when Pop sat the starters, stands out as a likely loss from the first time you look at the schedule. Second games against tough, young opponents that have been waiting at home. The game in Orlando on March 17th is another one. Second day of a B2B for the Spurs while the Magic will be coming off a three day break.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Defensively? No way. The only way they can 'hold their own' is if their shots are falling... then they would be basically offsetting what they're giving up on the defensive end.



This is where you and I completely disagree. The way you win championships is being able to make stops when it matters. In order to do that you need to be very solid defensively. I can't think of a NBA champion in recent memory that did not have solid defense overall. Especially in the paint.

I don't think we 'completely disagree' on anything. A team with Duncan, Dyess, RJ and even Hill and Ratliff will be able to play solid defense, no matter what. All I'm saying is that, white we might not be as good at it as in previous seasons, our offense has improved enough to outweight this and keep us in the title challenge.

Bonner and Fin playing a total of 35-40 mins a night would not take us from a solid defensive team to a bad one. Bonner starts right now because Dyess is not in his best condition and because a second unit of Bonner and Blair would be a disaster. Fin starts because Mason hasn't proven to be shooting or defending better. It's not such a disaster at all, them 2 are playing really well right now and Bonner's defense in particular is very underrated.

[ElNono]

I don't think we 'completely disagree' on anything. A team with Duncan, Dyess, RJ and even Hill and Ratliff will be able to play solid defense, no matter what. All I'm saying is that, white we might not be as good at it as in previous seasons, our offense has improved enough to outweight this and keep us in the title challenge.

Names don't mean shit if you don't play them. Case in point Hill last season.
Now, I'm actually intrigued to see how Pop is going to build his rotations over the season and if the love for Bonner and Finley is going to slow down as the season progresses. Probably one of the most interesting subplots of this season.


Bonner and Fin playing a total of 35-40 mins a night would not take us from a solid defensive team to a bad one.

Disagree. I think defensively you need to set a tone and then you need to sustain it. I'm actually not against having one of Bonner and Finley at a time on the court for sporadic minutes (You kind of have to, since we don't have personnel to completely erase them). They just can't both be there at the same time, especially playing against the opposing team's best players.
And there's nothing underrated about Bonner's defense. You simply can't underrate what doesn't exist.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

And there's nothing underrated about Bonner's defense. You simply can't underrate what doesn't exist.

Well, as much as it doesn't exist, he's played better defense than either Dyess and Blair so far this season.

[z0sa]

And there's nothing underrated about Bonner's defense. You simply can't underrate what doesn't exist.

One of the most overused FAIL arguments this board has ever seen.

It's a complete fabrication that Bonner simply doesn't play defense. Complete, and total bullshit.

Is he a great shotblocker or rebounder? No. He also doesn't leave his man open and makes near perfect rotations. He's a solid positional defender. Everyone readily forgets or even attacks his stats last playoffs, but he had stretches of great success guarding Dirk (yes, I understand it definitely a team thing, but he was the head of the snake and played just about as good as any big could on Dirk).

[SpurNation]

You know I like to look things up. B2Bs involving Utah are among the worst. Over the last four years the Spurs have played in Utah three times as the first game of a B2B. They lost the second game all three times.

I know it's a small sample size, but not all B2Bs are created equal. This one, much like the Denver game last season when Pop sat the starters, stands out as a likely loss from the first time you look at the schedule. Second games against tough, young opponents that have been waiting at home. The game in Orlando on March 17th is another one. Second day of a B2B for the Spurs while the Magic will be coming off a three day break.

Thanks for the brief info. I was wondering the same but don't have time to look up all the B2B scenerios. Things like you just pointed out. How many second games of the Spurs B2B's are played against teams that will have acquired rest time? Is it equal compared to other team's B2B's? How many of the second game B2B's are played against teams that are playing their 2nd game of a B2B as well?

I think this all could mean significant outcomes as far as regular season wins and losses and playoff positioning. I would hope that it would be scheduled fairly and uniformly across the board regarding all the teams.

[ElNono]

Well, as much as it doesn't exist, he's played better defense than either Dyess and Blair so far this season.

Don't necessarily disagree with that. However, this is the best Bonner can play. The other two have a long way to go and possibly a much higher ceiling.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Don't necessarily disagree with that. However, this is the best Bonner can play. The other two have a long way to go and possibly a much higher ceiling.

Agree with you, but until they've actually shown it, I don't see how anyone can critisize Bonner's role and minutes.

[ElNono]

One of the most overused FAIL arguments this board has ever seen.

It's a complete fabrication that Bonner simply doesn't play defense. Complete, and total bullshit.

Is he a great shotblocker or rebounder? No. He also doesn't leave his man open and makes near perfect rotations. He's a solid positional defender. Everyone readily forgets or even attacks his stats last playoffs, but he had stretches of great success guarding Dirk (yes, I understand it definitely a team thing, but he was the head of the snake and played just about as good as any big could on Dirk).

And this is the most common FAIL argument trying to defend Bonner. Probably number 3 after 'He spaces the floor for Tim' and 'He's an overall really nice guy'.

He:
- Does not block shots
- Does not rebound well at all
- Does not alter shots
- Does not have steals at any decent rate
- Does not has the size to really stop any true C in the game

'Rotates well' is not any measurable defensive accomplishment considering he gets scored over almost every single time.

[ElNono]

Agree with you, but until they've actually shown it, I don't see how anyone can critisize Bonner's role and minutes.

Because I rather the other two get more burn learning the ropes than playing somebody that is already at his ceiling. Even if it costs some games in the process.
I also don't want mediocrity to be the standard. That was last season and I thought we learned from that experience.

[Mel_13]

- Does not rebound well at all

Bonner has rebounded at a rate equal to Horry and only slightly less than Ratliff.

[ElNono]

Bonner has rebounded at a rate equal to Horry and only slightly less than Ratliff.

Horry actually was a 7.5 rpg guy at the peak of his career. But even if he wasn't the greatest rebounder, he averaged about a block and a steal per game. The guy also had a big ass basketball IQ and a knack for intangibles, much like Manu.

And you know Theo is an above average shot blocker.

[ElNono]

And BTW Mel... I don't pretend a guy that excels at all those categories. I want at least a guy that can be above average in one, then be pedestrian (ie: Bonner level) on the others.

[rascal]

"Hopefully the defense will improve with the new additions and Pop won't feel compelled to give major minutes to Bonner and Fin.

The defense would improve immediately if Popovich simply chose not to play either one, much less give them starting jobs.

That would be a good start.

Finley couldn't keep up with Deng or anyone to save his life the other day, and Bonner offers ZERO help defense and ZERO interior presence.

Combine that with the fact that Duncan can barely jump anymore and its easy to see how an athletic young team like the bulls can beat the spurs all day long on hustle and athleticism alone. Popovich needs to stop relying on all the old goats and start using his younger players, not only because they are more effective against teams like the bulls, but they represent the future and the present. All they lack is the experience to get better.

Its time to put Finley to pasture and Bonner on a seriously short leash. Guys like Blair and Hill need to get WAY more minutes than 17 and 13. Haislip, Mahinmi, and Hairston were recruited and given spots on the team to match up with athletic teams.. what's the point of having them on IR or getting DNP's against those kind of teams.

This shit is getting old, and tiring fast.

Great post. Agree

Bonner stinks overall. He should not be getting more minutes than Blair.

[z0sa]

Another list of tired cliches which are designed to deny Bonner proper representation/justice

I disagree with most of it, not that all of its exactly untrue, but your agenda of hate is too clear to take it without a tablespoon of salt.

[Mel_13]

Horry actually was a 7.5 rpg guy at the peak of his career. But even if he wasn't the greatest rebounder, he averaged about a block and a steal per game. The guy also had a big ass basketball IQ and a knack for intangibles, much like Manu.

And you know Theo is an above average shot blocker.


And BTW Mel... I don't pretend a guy that excels at all those categories. I want at least a guy that can be above average in one, then be pedestrian (ie: Bonner level) on the others.

Like I told you the other day, I'm out of this debate except to point out factual inaccuracies. I didn't comment on the rest of your list because the items were either correct or represented your opinion. Obviously, I wouldn't try to make a case about the relative basketball skills of Horry and Bonner. I just used him as a known point of reference rather than comparing Bonner to say, Josh Smith.

Bonner's rebounding numbers say is he, at least, an average rebounder.


This last part is just for fun.

When I looked up their numbers, I found one of those really weird statistical coincidences. For their careers, based on rebounds per 36 minutes, Bonner and Horry have the exact same numbers, 2.2 O-rbds and 4.8 D-rbds.

[ElNono]

I disagree with most of it, not that all of its exactly untrue, but your agenda of hate is too clear to take it without a tablespoon of salt.

Good. Let me check 'Hate on Matt Bonner' off my daily activities list...
Now, onto Michael Finley... :lol

[ElNono]

Bonner's rebounding numbers say is he, at least, an average rebounder.

That's if you think Horry was an average rebounder... I'm actually wondering what the league average is per 36 on his position (C or PF, whatever you want to call it).

[Mel_13]

That's if you think Horry was an average rebounder... I'm actually wondering what the league average is per 36 on his position (C or PF, whatever you want to call it).

I'm not nearly interested to look it up again, but I did look up last year's numbers with various filters for size, position, playing time, etc. His total numbers were average, with his defensive rebounding above average and his offensive rebounding below average. That's the facts.

Now as to opinion. My opinion is that his poor offensive rebounding numbers are a result of his specific role in the team's offense and the team's overall defensive philosophy. His role in the offense is mostly to stand behind the arc. Once a shot goes up, the defensive emphasis is to get back on defense. Hard for that guy to get many offensive boards. If you remember Bonner's early days with the Spurs, he was used more as an energy guy off the bench rather than as a 3pt shooting specialist. His offensive rebounding numbers that season were actually pretty good, and about double what they were last season.

Now the whole debate about whether it's a good idea to place one of your bigs behind the arc on most offensive possessions is more interesting to some than others. From my point of view, Bonner is out there because he was put out there. As I said in the Theo thread, I'd prefer to see a much different rotation come April.

[booonkers]

Because I rather the other two get more burn learning the ropes than playing somebody that is already at his ceiling. Even if it costs some games in the process.
I also don't want mediocrity to be the standard. That was last season and I thought we learned from that experience.
I agree with this. I'd rather give minutes to players who have the potential to play better defense than settle with players who will never be average defenders. The Spurs can still go back to elite defense considering they were still in the top 10 last year with those players. So I believe the Spurs are capable to going back to championship-caliber defense, but that means fewer minutes for these two guys.

[Em-City]

Is fin better than mason?

[superbigtime]

By overplaying the Fossil and the Stepchild, Pop is just showing how stupid he can be. Too bad our assistant coaches have the collective IQ of a grapefruit.

[VivaPopovich]

current coach-4 championships

you-0 championships


I trust Pop isn't playing Finley and Bonner for any other reason besides wanting to win games, and I trust that he knows a WHOLE lot more about winning games than anyone watching from the stands or their couch

How many championships the Spurs won with Matt Bonner as starting PF/C - 0

So you can shutup and relax. The OP was being nice and respectful, and here you are acting like a total savage hurling insults

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't think Bonner is a bad defender at all, but I also don't see how he can be considered a good defender..I think he's an average defender that doesn't hurt us defensively, but doesn't do nearly enough to compensate for games where he isn't making his deep shots..

Finley's defense IS a problem though, and I can't really see how anybody would disagree..he gives the effort for the most part, he just doesn't have the physical tools to give us what we need defensively..he's too slow on rotations, which is something that everybody should expect from a 35+ year old offensive specialist..

I would try limiting Finley's minutes for Bogans or Hairston first, and see if the defense improves..

Pop has to try something new though, that's the only way we can find out what works for us..usually I would believe he would definitely do it, but TBH, I just don't know anymore when Finley is involved in the conversation..

It's still REALLY early in the season though, so we'll see how it goes..at least we have other options now, unlike last year..

[VivaPopovich]

Matt's Bonner's perimeter defense is better than people give him credit for, and he's faster on the perimeter than people give him credit for. Which is why I still believe Pop should turn to him as our 3 hitting 3's off the bench.

So you say he's not a small forward? He sure as hell isn't a POWER forward.

[objective]

Finley is the bigger problem.

Bonner is at least servicible on the perimeter. He shouldn't be anything but a specialist who doesn't even play every game. But he's still a legit NBA player.

Finley is a disaster though. He is only of deceptive use when his jumper is falling. And by deceptive I mean he's still not useful as he can't play defense anymore or do anything else, but a few jumpers fools people into thinking he can serve a role.

But as he gets older, and it's been this way for years now, his scoring droughts will get longer and longer. Then when he has his 6-7 game once a month and knocks down 4 3-pointers all the suckers will scream "Where's the Finley haters now?"

Shame on everyone who honestly thought the addition of RJ and a healthy Manu would make Finley a 12th man. Come on people.

There is no excuse for Pop in this regard. The early season 'experimenting' excuse for still playing Finley let alone starting him? Give me break, there are no new results coming. There are no legit reasons to experiment with him, he's proven what he is the last two years. He's proven it heavy, he's proven it at a lighter weight. They cannot win the title with him in the rotation at this point of his career.

The other players can carry him through a bunch of regular season wins and that's it.

REAL experimenting by Pop this early in the season with all the days off and practice schedule would be throwing Hairston, Haislip and Mahinmi into the fire at least until Christmas when the ABC telecasts start. THAT would be an experiment, because you can't know the results beforehand. That could fail miserably.

But even if those experiments failed . . . it's not like you couldn't go to Finley and Bonner and not get the same standard of play you would expect. Finley and Bonner have spent years in the system, they're not going to forget it.

Benching them until Christmas still gives plenty of regular season games for them to get into shape and get their rhythm, such as it is.

But if the H-H-M experiment succeeds, partially or in whole, the team and it's chances improve to win a title.

[NFGIII]

Well, it's been discussed in dozens of threads already, but it spaces the floor for Timmy and also for Parker's drives. It's a hub and spoke approach. It works for screen/rolls and also with the 4-out, 1-in motion offense they run. Since Fin and Bonner are good three point shooters, thus drawing some of the lane protection away from the inside, Pop goes with them. It worked well during the pre-season or whenever they are hitting their shots, but when they aren't hitting (Bulls game), the topic becomes a hot one, again.

This team has been averaging 20 3-point attempts per game since 2006-07 because their defense hasn't been that great. Pop feels the need for more 3s and offensive spacing for ease of scoring.

Hopefully the defense will improve with the new additions and Pop won't feel compelled to give major minutes to Bonner and Fin.

Agreed. Season is young with time to figure things out and get better.

Also Bonner had better be hitting his 3's. If not then they sag off him, double team TD and clog the lane, which limits TP's drives to either score or dish. If Booner is cold then he should sit and his minutes given to others. When he and Fin are on - Hornets game - we spread the floor so much that it because an offensive feast.


I don't think Bonner is a bad defender at all, but I also don't see how he can be considered a good defender..I think he's an average defender that doesn't hurt us defensively, but doesn't do nearly enough to compensate for games where he isn't making his deep shots..

Finley's defense IS a problem though, and I can't really see how anybody would disagree..he gives the effort for the most part, he just doesn't have the physical tools to give us what we need defensively..he's too slow on rotations, which is something that everybody should expect from a 35+ year old offensive specialist..

I would try limiting Finley's minutes for Bogans or Hairston first, and see if the defense improves..

Pop has to try something new though, that's the only way we can find out what works for us..usually I would believe he would definitely do it, but TBH, I just don't know anymore when Finley is involved in the conversation..

It's still REALLY early in the season though, so we'll see how it goes..at least we have other options now, unlike last year..

I agree that Bonner's D isn't as bad as most make it out to be but if Bonner is benched in favor of Dice then you have both Blair and Bonner on the floor more so than not, which would really hurt our interior D. Balancing TD with Bonner and Dice with Blair makes sense right now because I really don't see Theo playing 20+ mpg so you're stuck with Bonner until Haislip starts to show something and Hairston is a wing player.

Fin is the problem but as stated numerous times Fin is more effective when he starts rather than coming in off the bench. I think Pop discovered that a couple of years ago and has been starting Fin ever since. He just doesn't seem to get into the flow of the game when subbing for others. And when his O is clicking then he plays much better D. If he isn't on then his all around game is pretty much nonexistent.

The silver lining about Fin is that he most likely wont be back next year so we're stuck with him for now. Pop has to make the best of this situation and we all know about his tendencies towards vets vs. rookies/young newbies. Anyway if Fin is benched he would be a marginal player at best with a couple of games here and there where he contributes. It seems that Pop believes he contributes best by starting - that way Pop can see what is happening game wise and adjust accordingly - either let it ride or pull depending on his production.

Both of them are going to have good and bad games. Until some of the younger players start to show Pop something in practice I really don't see either one of them out of the rotation much less out of the starting lineup. But to me it really doesn't matter who is starting but who is finishing the 4th Q that counts.

[angelbelow]

I believe that they will eventually be phased out. Remember, we have a lot of new players and they are still learning the system. It's a long season we just have to be patience.

I personally don't like finley starting but we'll wait it out for now.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't really mind Bonner starting right now..as I said, Finley starting is what bothers me the most..shit, not even Finley starting, just Finley playing significant minutes..I don't care if he starts and plays 10 MPG, but 20+ is way too much at this point in his career..

He's one of the best spot-up 3-point shooters in the NBA, but he doesn't offer ANYTHING more than that at all..as a lot of us have been complaining about for a while, something that might be the even bigger issue is that we have BOTH Finley and Mason in the rotation together..having one 1-D player in the rotation is fine with me, every team does it, but 2 that play the exact same style?..

the Lakers 1-D player is Derek Fisher..he starts and isn't that good anymore, their fans always complain about him..like Finley, he is known for making clutch spot-up 3s, and a good veteran presence..he's the 1 guy though..Vujacic is the other 1-D player..he only plays 8 MPG right now, and will probably be fazed out, since he's a horrible basketball player that was near the doghouse..Fisher's weaknesses are clear and they were exploited by quick PGs last year, but the Lakers can afford to play him with their high talent everywhere else..more importantly, Phil Jackson actually plays Shannon Brown as an alternative, a guy that plays on energy and athleticism(something Hairston could bring..

the Celtics 1-D player is Eddie House, and he's currently playing around 15 MPG..

the Cavs have Daniel Gibson, currently playing 23 MPG..

the Magic have JJ and Ryan Anderson..one of them stretches the floor as a big(Bonner-style), and the other is a 1-D shooter..different styles..their other wings are all-around role players..

the Nuggets have Anthony Carter and Birdman, different styles..Afflalo is currently playing a similar role to Carter(defensive specialist), but will probably be fazed out when JR Smith returns, since Karl has a Finley-like relationship with Carter..

We're the only potential contender that has 2 1-D players that play the exact same style in the rotation..having 1-D players isn't bad at all, we've had some big contributors on our title teams that weren't all-around players..the problem is when they play the exact same role, and we don't have an alternative when we need a different style to match the opposing team..

Again, it's really early in the season, so I'm not mad or anything..I just hope Pop gives Bogans and Hairston a shot at bringing us something different when we need it, and I'm sure he will..not only so we know what they can bring, but also to find out whether we need a defensive stopper role player at the deadline..

[objective]

the Magic have JJ and Ryan Anderson..one of them stretches the floor as a big(Bonner-style), and the other is a 1-D shooter..different styles..their other wings are all-around role players..

Ryan Anderson is better than Bonner with the potential to get even better. He's bigger, longer, can drive better, should be able to rebound better, passes better . . .

Ryan Anderson is everything the Spurs hoped they'd get when they gave Bonner a 3 year deal to be the 'Horry replacement'.

[HarlemHeat37]

I agree that Anderson is better offensively, but disagree that he's a better defender..that doesn't really change my point though, Ryan isn't a versatile player(coming from a guy that defended him as being more than just a filler in the VC trade, and a guy that went to many Nets games last year)..

[Mr.Robinson]

It makes me angry to see Finley out there. We have so many options to mess around with. Pops said he was excited about having new toys to play with but is stuck playing with Finley's knob. I know Bonner is out there to create space in the paint but when he is off the team has no chance against a solid team. Finley needs to be playing 10 to 15 minutes a game.

[Gospursel]

I'm beginning to wonder if pop's plan may be changing or evolving a little, even taking last year and the league changes into consideration. I believe he'll always be a defense first kind of coach but not if the team's strengths are obviously elsewhere. He'll work what he can and take what he can get from his players. I wouldn't be surprised if our opponent scoring and shooting percentages aren't in the top 5 this year. I want them to be, since thats how we've gone all the way in the past, but could it be possible that pop could build this into a team that is deep, offensively efficient, and can get stops when they really have to? And still take us to the finals?

[024]

i understand bonner starting. popovich is just limiting the minutes of mcdyess because he doesn't need to show up until playoff time and blair because he's a rookie who should be eased into NBA ball. bonner is pretty much useless when his shot isn't hitting and still pretty average when he is hitting 3's but mcdyess shouldn't need to go through yet another NBA grind just so the spurs can win some early games.

finley getting so many minutes, on the other hand, is a bit frustrating. he's still useful in clutch situation and the occasional catch and shoot play but mason should be getting the brunt of the minutes. i've kind of stepped back a little bit on the mason bandwagon after his pretty below average second half of the regular season and playoffs. but he should be getting more minutes than finley at the very least. it's the beginning of the season and popovich should push mason.

[JustinJDW]

Bonner is fine, but we shouldn't have a 36 year old Finley defend the best player every night. He is way too inconsistent now. He is a great shooter, but his shot is only falling once every few nights, and even when it does, it doesn't nearly make up for his horrible defense. Bottom line, he is hurting the team WAY MORE than he is helping it.

He should just be a back-up SF for RJ. Roger Mason should start.

[TJastal]

I agree that Anderson is better offensively, but disagree that he's a better defender..that doesn't really change my point though, Ryan isn't a versatile player(coming from a guy that defended him as being more than just a filler in the VC trade, and a guy that went to many Nets games last year)..

Anderson's game has evolved.

I've watched the first 3 games on the magic and Anderson has added some versatility to his game. He quite often takes the ball to the basket and is a better rebounder than Bonner. He is a better ballhandler and passer.

If I had to pick one or the other for the same $$ it would be a no-brainer, I'd take Anderson in a heartbeat.

[booonkers]

How many championships the Spurs won with Matt Bonner as starting PF/C - 0

So you can shutup and relax. The OP was being nice and respectful, and here you are acting like a total savage hurling insults

Thank you!! That was pretty annoying.

Anyway, all I'm asking for is our defense going back to elite status. Damn those Celts are leading the way defensively.

[Chieflion]

How many championships the Spurs won with Matt Bonner as starting PF/C - 0

So you can shutup and relax. The OP was being nice and respectful, and here you are acting like a total savage hurling insults
Just one thing, the Spurs only started playing Matt Bonner at the PF/C spot as a starter last season, which was the only season, we all know how that turned out. Many players got injured and somehow the Spurs got 54 wins, so Matt Bonner starting and winning championships is still an unknown.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Just one thing, the Spurs only started playing Matt Bonner at the PF/C spot as a starter last season, which was the only season, we all know how that turned out. Many players got injured and somehow the Spurs got 54 wins, so Matt Bonner starting and winning championships is still an unknown.

Dude.... don't let facts get in the way of a popular accusation, if you're not hating on Fin and Bonner you're not cool, apparently.

[draft87]

At first I was actually okay with Bonner starting. He does spread the floor for Timmy but then I realized that on defense, Timmy would be on his own. Having Bonner and Finley starting at the same time doesn't make sense. Them being lights out shooters gets negated by the points they give up on the other end. I feel that both of them shouldn't be on the floor at the same time.

I just wish Pop would go back to defense first and we might not get there with both these guys on the starting line up. I like Mason on the starting line up better than Finley. As for Bonner, there are some games where it's okay to start him but also other games where it's better to start Dyess or even Blair depending on the match up.

I don't like the feeling of playing against the other teams' starters (starters usually being the best players on the team) with these two guys as our starters. Knowing Pop though, I know the starting line up would be quite wonky so maybe one of them will be out of it by March. But I guess we should trust Pop. He knows what to do. I just hope it's not like last year but to be fair to him we didn't have the pieces we have now.


do you think Pop is NOT working on a re-emphasis on defense? come on, there have been 3 games. THREE GAMES. if you say yr not panicking or overreacting then just let it play out.

where are all the finley/bonner gripers when someone offers a credible basketball answer to "why are finley/bonner playing significant minutes when they look like serious liabilities on defense and can't really create plays for themselves?"
seriously. it's like people who repeatedly ask these questions watch basketball and only see the names on the jerseys and whether or not the ball gets in the basket. HOW the ball gets in or WHO gets the ball or WHY the ball isn't going in, etc must not cross their minds. there's no way it does because if it did there's no way these ignorant complaints wouldn't have ceased during the 1st rd loss last season.

regarding this season. again, it's been THREE FRICKIN' GAMES. since when do games 1-3 predict the future of the entire nba and every game it plays? Any time you think you have a legitimate problem with how things are going you need to consider a solution, right?
Who's going to start instead of Bonner and Finley? or Why are Bonner/Finley starting?

long Answer- we have 6 BRAND NEW players on the team. We are a team with a reputation of complex defensive and offensive strategies as well as being reluctant to rely on young/rookie/new players. Last year we broke from that identity and look at the results/fan approval(not up to standard)
Pop said it himself he's limited the playbook for now. He's also starting players familiar with the system so the game can start with a good flow. AND BESIDES- who is actually playing "significant minutes"? nobody. we've had three blowouts. We have no way of saying for sure that should Thursday's game against Utah-should it be competitive-will have 35 minutes from Finley and 29 from Bonner. You just don't know cause it's way early and we haven't even played a tight game.

The starting lineup has Richard Jefferson. Are we going to have two or more newbies in the starting lineup? would that be a good idea? will it be a better idea midseason when everyone's more comfortable with the system? think about it-
we have 5 'spurs veterans'
1-Tim Duncan
2-Tony Parker
3-Manu Ginobili
4-Michael Finley
5-Matt Bonner

Limited experience
1-Roger Mason
2-George Hill
3-Ian Mahinmi(been with the team a bit but has played 6 games, might as well put him in the 'brand new' list
4-Malik Hairston(2nd year but just as experienced as Ian)


LET THIS PLAY OUT. PLEASE STOP BITCHING ABOUT FINLEY/BONNER. SUPPORT YOUR TEAM. i guarantee you things will shape up well. you know the spurs are always an evolving team. the chemistry always becomes it's own animal by the playoffs. and bonner/finley will play their role and be just as important and unique as the rest of the exciting new comers. 2010 has the potential to be the best Spurs season ever. Don't spoil it, enjoy it!

[booonkers]

do you think Pop is NOT working on a re-emphasis on defense? come on, there have been 3 games. THREE GAMES. if you say yr not panicking or overreacting then just let it play out.

where are all the finley/bonner gripers when someone offers a credible basketball answer to "why are finley/bonner playing significant minutes when they look like serious liabilities on defense and can't really create plays for themselves?"
seriously. it's like people who repeatedly ask these questions watch basketball and only see the names on the jerseys and whether or not the ball gets in the basket. HOW the ball gets in or WHO gets the ball or WHY the ball isn't going in, etc must not cross their minds. there's no way it does because if it did there's no way these ignorant complaints wouldn't have ceased during the 1st rd loss last season.

regarding this season. again, it's been THREE FRICKIN' GAMES. since when do games 1-3 predict the future of the entire nba and every game it plays? Any time you think you have a legitimate problem with how things are going you need to consider a solution, right?
Who's going to start instead of Bonner and Finley? or Why are Bonner/Finley starting?

long Answer- we have 6 BRAND NEW players on the team. We are a team with a reputation of complex defensive and offensive strategies as well as being reluctant to rely on young/rookie/new players. Last year we broke from that identity and look at the results/fan approval(not up to standard)
Pop said it himself he's limited the playbook for now. He's also starting players familiar with the system so the game can start with a good flow. AND BESIDES- who is actually playing "significant minutes"? nobody. we've had three blowouts. We have no way of saying for sure that should Thursday's game against Utah-should it be competitive-will have 35 minutes from Finley and 29 from Bonner. You just don't know cause it's way early and we haven't even played a tight game.

The starting lineup has Richard Jefferson. Are we going to have two or more newbies in the starting lineup? would that be a good idea? will it be a better idea midseason when everyone's more comfortable with the system? think about it-
we have 5 'spurs veterans'
1-Tim Duncan
2-Tony Parker
3-Manu Ginobili
4-Michael Finley
5-Matt Bonner

Limited experience
1-Roger Mason
2-George Hill
3-Ian Mahinmi(been with the team a bit but has played 6 games, might as well put him in the 'brand new' list
4-Malik Hairston(2nd year but just as experienced as Ian)


LET THIS PLAY OUT. PLEASE STOP BITCHING ABOUT FINLEY/BONNER. SUPPORT YOUR TEAM. i guarantee you things will shape up well. you know the spurs are always an evolving team. the chemistry always becomes it's own animal by the playoffs. and bonner/finley will play their role and be just as important and unique as the rest of the exciting new comers. 2010 has the potential to be the best Spurs season ever. Don't spoil it, enjoy it!
chill out man. we're not panicking, i stated it clearly from the start that this is a thread to share our thoughts on these two guys throughout the season. we respect your opinion but you gotta chill. we're not asking for Pop's head or anything. try to read my last paragraph. maybe some people are bitching about these players because they actually care about the team. just because they do not share the same opinion as yours doesn't mean you can stop them from having their own opinions. thats why this is a forum.

[draft87]

chill out man. we're not panicking, i stated it clearly from the start that this is a thread to share our thoughts on these two guys throughout the season. we respect your opinion but you gotta chill. we're not asking for Pop's head or anything. try to read my last paragraph. maybe some people are bitching about these players because they actually care about the team. just because they do not share the same opinion as yours doesn't mean you can stop them from having their own opinions. thats why this is a forum.

am chill.... "f you say yr not panicking or overreacting then just let it play out." aka dedicating time and reserving future time on bonner/finley is a waste of everyone's time. again, chill, just calling bullshit on all the unnecessary bonner/finley chatter.

i like sharing thoughts. i'm offering my thoughts. i think a lot of the posting doesn't includes 'thoughts', more like 'gut reactions' i'm saying that too many posts are thoughtless. again, chill, all for discussion, just trying to offer some 'thought' beyond finley/bonner. there's much, much more to the team. hoping people posting about finley/bonner will add their two cents without focusing so much attention on these two guys.

do i sound redundant? probably. i read all your paragraphs and other people's. it's really annoying when people are constantly referring to their own posts like some kind of ultimate statement, or to a lesser degree as a completely well represented thought. ..... i know mine aren't always totally clear so i'll admit it rather than point the finger......

but what i was trying to say in a less rude way is,
"finley/bonner talk is usually crap. non-basketball fan-talk. bullshit."

doesn't mean your post is the problem. there are a lot of problems. i can be a problem. thought offering another point of view in previous post was better than saying, "YOU DON'T KNOW JACK ABOUT BASKETBALL, TAKE A NAP"
bzzzzz bzzzzz bzzzzz (ending the non-chill)

[Chomag]

I'm just not understanding this whole ease thing. Homers have said it themselves. "This is still Spurs preseason so just chill haters" Well if that is so shouldn't the new players be getting the burn now early in the season rather then later when things need to start tightening up? It just all seems like an oxymoron to me.

[in2deep]

4 pages of "talk" about these 2 scrubs. impressive :tu

[superjames1992]

4 pages of "talk" about these 2 scrubs. impressive :tu
These "scrubs" get more playing time than the man in your avatar.

[Mr.Robinson]

These "scrubs" get more playing time than the man in your avatar.

Freaking travesty if you ask me.

[VivaPopovich]

Dude.... don't let facts get in the way of a popular accusation, if you're not hating on Fin and Bonner you're not cool, apparently.

We're 2-1 and both are doing reasonably well at hitting their jump shots. What does this tell you about the Spurs fanbase? We are, always have been, always will be a conservative fanbase.

Many of us like the Spurs cause we live in San Antonio/Texas, but there are many of us that also like the institutional principles of the Spurs, which is team basketball and defense first. That's the reason why Fin and Bon are getting as much animosity as they are. We just aren't use to those types of players.

Laker fans are content with winning games at all costs, even if it means they have a star player that acts like a raging douchebag.

I love the Spurs, but if Tony Parker started acting like that and Holt/Pop tolerated it, I would speak out against it, even if it was winning games. And I know I'm not the only one.

Loyalty is important and what spurs basketball is all about, but not to an unhealthy extreme.

[draft87]

There is no excuse for Pop in this regard. The early season 'experimenting' excuse for still playing Finley let alone starting him? Give me break, there are no new results coming. There are no legit reasons to experiment with him, he's proven what he is the last two years. He's proven it heavy, he's proven it at a lighter weight. They cannot win the title with him in the rotation at this point of his career.

REAL experimenting by Pop this early in the season with all the days off and practice schedule would be throwing Hairston, Haislip and Mahinmi into the fire at least until Christmas when the ABC telecasts start. THAT would be an experiment, because you can't know the results beforehand. That could fail miserably.

But if the H-H-M experiment succeeds, partially or in whole, the team and it's chances improve to win a title.



I really don't think this is an experiment. And I think if these questions are so disturbing it's probably an issue for the person asking, not the players or coaches.

The best way to get answers might be to pretend you are asking Popovich to his face. Or imagine what Timmy is thinking. Do we think TD is as disgusted with Finley and Bonner's playing time as we are? Do we think he is disgusted, period? Or is Timmy trusting that Pop is balancing playing time, rotations, competitive play, role defining.....?

Do you think Finley's minutes will gradually and consistently be cut back as Manu gets back into shape, Mason gets some more confidence(and a hot streak), and Hill finds a way to play next to Parker? It seems very possible because all three scenarios seem likely to happen. I bet that once we get to game 10 you'll see a steady diet of Finley starting and playing 1st/3rd quarter runs with spot 4th quarter appearances when Pop wants to spread the floor for Duncan to post up. He'll use Finley then for 3pt shooting, passing, and free throws. You won't see him logging heavy minutes.

And you HAVEN'T seen it yet this year either. All THREE games have been lopsided so the minutes don't reflect 'serious' playing time. If we're gonna use them to gauge the rotations then we might as well look at them from the other angles-Finley is shooting 50% from 3pt range. I don't give that figure much weight but simply stating it helps remind ourselves that there are 79 games left.

So would any of us walk up to Pop and say, "dude you gotta let go of Finley, he's worthless. Bonner is ok, but just experiment and throw HHM into the mix big time." and think you can be taken seriously?

And what does Christmas and ABC have to do with basketball?

I'm sure we all want the same thing-a great season that leads to a fantastic run at the title- so let's take it easy on the over-analyzing/under-analyzing/overreacting and let Pop and the Spurs do their job. I think Popovich realizes he made a big mistake not letting George Hill develop more last season. Pop knows there were aspects to the game that he needs to pay more attention to and the roster he came up with to address those issues needs a lot of care to be on a championship level of function. Let's trust the Spurs a little more and keep all this stressing over the lineups in check for a bit. Remember, 2007 title was won with Finley starting at 2guard, playing 22.2mpg, and sitting while Ginobili took over the 2nd and 4th quarters.

And if Finley plays 20mpg, shoots 40%+ from both 2pt and 3pt and shows strong leadership on and off the court for all 6 BRAND NEW Spurs

and Bonner plays 20mpg, shoots 45%+ from 3pt, hustles on both ends, spreads the floor for TD, McDyess, and Blair to get good inside position
----and we have a great season and chance at the championship----
THAT'S A GOOD THING.

[Finperro]

I'm pretty sure Bonner will get replaced by Dyess as the season goes deep and Dyess gets more adapted to Spurs. While Fin's seat will always be stable in the starting 5 till Spurs quit the 09-10 season at 1st or 2nd round of playoffs.

[benefactor]

Watching the Rockets is depressing. Chuck Hayes, Scola, Carl Landry....ugh. They are full of freaking man beasts. Meanwhile, we still have Bonner.

Fun Fact: Those three combined for THIRTY FIVE rebounds tonight....and 10 of the teams 17 offensive rebounds.

[HarlemHeat37]

Houston probably has the best role players in the NBA..sucks that they don't have any stars..

[HarlemHeat37]

well..this thread is going to be bad tonight..

[iilluzioN]

Houston probably has the best role players in the NBA..sucks that they don't have any stars..

:lol

[Sigz]

I fucking hate Matt Bonner.

He is everything BAD that represents this team:

Always chucking three's. Yeah that's all he does.. and he lives and dies by them. (Just like the rest of the team)

He's worth SHIT on defense.

His T-rex arms can never block shots.

[HarlemHeat37]

random..

since 1980, only 1 team has won an NBA Championship when they have a swingman(SG or SF) that is over the age of 35 that plays 25 MPG or more(obviously have to play a certain amount of games to qualify, nothing like 10 games or 15)..that team was the 2007 Spurs with Bruce Bowen..

Only 2 other teams have made it past the 1st round when they have a 35+ year old swingman playing that much..

the 1986 Sixers were eliminated with a 36-year old Julius Erving, and the 2004 Pacers with a 38-year old Reggie Miller..

don't do it Pop..

[superjames1992]

I fucking hate Matt Bonner.

He is everything BAD that represents this team:

Always chucking three's. Yeah that's all he does.. and he lives and dies by them. (Just like the rest of the team)

He's worth SHIT on defense.

His T-rex arms can never block shots.
Bonner has been defending better than half the players on this team thus far this year.

[intlspurshk]

^ that's the most horrible comment of this thread

[superjames1992]

^ that's the most horrible comment of this thread
No, it's not. Have you watched any games this year? The whole team hasn't been worth crap on defense. McDyess, Hill, and everyone else were getting owned on defense last night. And it occurred in games prior, as well.

I just hope our defensive issues are due to working new guys into the rotation (which I think is probably the case). Otherwise, we're in deep trouble.

[booonkers]

hmm that was a pretty awful night. wish their minutes steadily decline. :blah

[booonkers]

whoa did i see that right? michael finley is out of the starting line-up? but was replaced by bogans. hmm

[ElNono]

whoa did i see that right? michael finley is out of the starting line-up? but was replaced by bogans. hmm

We're saving his legs for the playoffs...
In other news, Bonner so far (1st quarter) has defended Aldrige pretty well, although he's more of a jumpshooter than a low post guy...

[booonkers]

random..

since 1980, only 1 team has won an NBA Championship when they have a swingman(SG or SF) that is over the age of 35 that plays 25 MPG or more(obviously have to play a certain amount of games to qualify, nothing like 10 games or 15)..that team was the 2007 Spurs with Bruce Bowen..

Only 2 other teams have made it past the 1st round when they have a 35+ year old swingman playing that much..

the 1986 Sixers were eliminated with a 36-year old Julius Erving, and the 2004 Pacers with a 38-year old Reggie Miller..

don't do it Pop..

dont do it pop:depressed

[booonkers]

We're saving his legs for the playoffs...
In other news, Bonner so far (1st quarter) has defended Aldrige pretty well, although he's more of a jumpshooter than a low post guy...

haha i hope not. i cannot believe bonner is guarding someone well. :lmao not watching so i'm counting on spurstalk to give me updates.

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL @ Finley airballing over Blake in the post, then getting Kobe'd in the post by Aldridge, then getting an isolation on the wing and unable to beat Blake, so he tries to pass and hits a Portland's player's foot..

[booonkers]

i hooope that pop gets over his drunk coaching and just just give the other players a chance. sure they're playing badly as well right now but if you give them more time, they can actually give you more than what these two guys are giving. if he gives more consistent time to hill, blair and mason, these guys can produce. give them a chance pop.

[Spurs Brazil]

Pop should put Mason, Bonner and Finley on IL

[booonkers]

LOL at
L. Aldridge fouled by M. Bonner.
L. Aldridge shoots first free throw.
L. Aldridge shoots second free throw.
L. Aldridge steals the ball from M. Bonner.

[booonkers]

i dunno about mase, i think he just needs more consistent playing time, we all know what he's capable of doing if used the right way.

[Spurs Brazil]

i dunno about mase, i think he just needs more consistent playing time, we all know what he's capable of doing if used the right way.

Mason can't play D, just like Finley, maybe worst

[NewJerSpur]

Mason can't play D, just like Finley, maybe worst

He's a better defender than McDyess.

[booonkers]

mason can be capable of playing okay d. unlike fin who's stuck at old age mode. i think mason has no confidence right now. not getting consistent playing time, etc. and what the hell is up with pop not playing dyess and blair enough? i hate small ball. when was the last time it worked?

[HarlemHeat37]

Mason has a nice expiring contract..he should be moved..

[NewJerSpur]

Mase!!

[Duncan2177]

No, it's not. Have you watched any games this year? The whole team hasn't been worth crap on defense. McDyess, Hill, and everyone else were getting owned on defense last night. And it occurred in games prior, as well.

I just hope our defensive issues are due to working new guys into the rotation (which I think is probably the case). Otherwise, we're in deep trouble.

LOL If Matt Bonner is our best defender on the team out of Duncan,Ratliff,Ian,McDyess there's something seriously wrong.

[HarlemHeat37]

Nice comeback with Finley and Bonner on the bench..

[yourtehclay]

I don't see how Finley and Bonner apologists even have a leg to stand on at this point. Both of these guys are just flat out bad basketball players. :(

[superjames1992]

Nice comeback with Finley and Bonner on the bench..
Actually, the comeback was started when Finley was in the lineup.

In fact, there were only two players with positive +/- numbers. Finley was +10 and Bogans was +4. Every other Spur was negative and Richard Jefferson was -22.

[sabar]

They saw about 13 minutes a piece and we still got dismantled. Of course, the scapegoat will just change as is convenient.

[Sean Cagney]

Actually, the comeback was started when Finley was in the lineup.

In fact, there were only two players with positive +/- numbers. Finley was +10 and Bogans was +4. Every other Spur was negative and Richard Jefferson was -22.

Yeah that shows you how much bs that damn + and - is since RJ was one of our high scorers and one of the few that showed tonight actually!!!!! He was our main player tonight if I am correct, or top two. You are trying to tell me that that this shows RJ was worse than them? Give me a damn break.

[HarlemHeat37]

Did you guys actually watch the game?..

first of all, people need to stop quoting +/- for one game..again, it's completely dependent on who you're playing with and who you're playing against at the time..

Finley had one of the worst stretches I've ever seen for his career, and I'm not exaggerating..it was sad to watch such a great guy be put out there and look like he did tonight..the only shot he made tonight was a wide-open layup where he caught it under the basket..

Bonner defended Aldridge well to start the game, but he wasn't noticeable on the floor the rest of the game..

[SpursFan0728]

Anyone piss off when they see Finley brakes on a 3 on 1 or a 4 on 2?

[mVp]

Anyone piss off when they see Finley brakes on a 3 on 1 or a 4 on 2?

I piss off whenever I see him, period.

[HarlemHeat37]

I piss off whenever I see him, period.

:lol

[Spurs Brazil]

Mason has a nice expiring contract..he should be moved..

He should be moved after his pathetic playoff when he was owned by Barea.

And he's back and play Finley level defense

[Warlord23]

I'd give Mason a chance to do what he was brought in to do ... play a bench role as the 3rd or 4th swingman. Last playoffs he was starting, playing major minutes and handling the ball. None of which he is suited for.

Finley on the other hand can take charge of the gatorade and towel department from here on. And Bonner can be the 5th big playing spot minutes, but nothing more.

[Mel_13]

It's going to be a slow week with no games until Thursday...


Well, there's gonna be a meltdown after the very likely loss to the Blazers on Friday. If it follows a loss to the Jazz, it will be of epic proportions.

[MaNu4Tres]

lol good call Mel.

You were pretty much on point.

[booonkers]

so that was a rough two-game stretch. i hope we see less of these two guys.

[ElNono]

I'd give Mason a chance to do what he was brought in to do ... play a bench role as the 3rd or 4th swingman. Last playoffs he was starting, playing major minutes and handling the ball. None of which he is suited for.

Finley on the other hand can take charge of the gatorade and towel department from here on. And Bonner can be the 5th big playing spot minutes, but nothing more.

Get ready to see him play point now that TP went down. Somehow Pop thinks he has good handles...

[rjv]

Get ready to see him play point now that TP went down. Somehow Pop thinks he has good handles...


well we have no other option for PG so mason is going to have to get in there.

[ElNono]

well we have no other option for PG so mason is going to have to get in there.

I would still play a tandem of Hill and Ginobili. Even if Manu has sucked recently, he has better court vision and passing skills. Mason is a one trick pony, IMHO.

[rayray2k8]

Fuck Bonner!

[Agloco]

well we have no other option for PG so mason is going to have to get in there.

Manu?

[Mel_13]

I would still play a tandem of Hill and Ginobili. Even if Manu has sucked recently, he has better court vision and passing skills. Mason is a one trick pony, IMHO.

I agree that Manu is the better option to run point for the 10-12 minutes that Hill doesn't play.

The only practical reason to use Mason, that I can see, is that it would be less disruptive to the established rotations. Of course, the established rotations have not exactly been a roaring success.

So yeah, if the ball isn't in Hill's hands, I'd like to see Manu direct the show.

[Chucho]

"he isn't the one who turns it over everytime he touches it..."
"his defense was decent for the first quarter..."
"his three point ability stretches the floor/no other big on the roster does what he can"

Bonner sucks. Don't care what the so called "experts" think, the guy is a poor man's JJ Reddick stretched to 7 ft, except his shot is so streaky that it's laughable to call him a 3 point threat. Guy can't rebound, or box out, and how the hell can anyone say he play's decent defense? You can't stand perpendicular to your man as he shoots and he can't stay in front of a line, let alone anyone with a ball in their hand. He has absolutely nothing over the other bigs on the roster besides the most over rated 3 point shot this side of Manu's balding head and tenure. Thankfully his minutes have been steadily decreasing, because he is becoming more than a liability when he plays extended minutes, he's becoming a detriment to the team, at least Mike Finley can say he is ass old, Bonner doesn't have any excuse, he just flat out doesn't have the talent or ability to do what Pop want's him to do. You can't have a consummate bench warmer playing a starting role for a dynasty with title hopes when you have two better alternatives sitting on the bench who are more productive in the little run they are given than this jabrone.

People on this board can sugar coat it anyway they want and dismiss people like me with snide comments like "do you even watch the games" (half season ticket holder, muffuggas!) or "you're not on the team" but neither are you guys, but in fairness the guy isn't THE reason the Spurs are a mess right now, but he most certainly isn't part of the solution in anyway but in a small role. To say otherwise is insulting, you don't need to be an expert to notice when someone isn't productive enough in their role and if I see that motherfucker stare at another wide open shooter for 3 seconds and not even bother putting a hand up, I'm gonna put my remote through my TV and I really dont want to do that.
/Rant.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bonner could be a very good bench spark..

[Spurs Brazil]

Bonner could be a very good bench spark..

Yes, played very well tonight

And I'd rather see Finley than Mason. In fact when TP come back I want to see Hill taking all minutes from both

[VivaPopovich]

Bonner could be a very good bench spark..

Yes he could be

Just not starting PF/C and not playing as many minutes as Pop is having him play. Tonight was an exception with Timmy out. I guess. We still should have been Theo/Dejuan/Blair get more PT but whatever

[VivaPopovich]

"he isn't the one who turns it over everytime he touches it..."
"his defense was decent for the first quarter..."
"his three point ability stretches the floor/no other big on the roster does what he can"

Bonner sucks. Don't care what the so called "experts" think, the guy is a poor man's JJ Reddick stretched to 7 ft, except his shot is so streaky that it's laughable to call him a 3 point threat. Guy can't rebound, or box out, and how the hell can anyone say he play's decent defense? You can't stand perpendicular to your man as he shoots and he can't stay in front of a line, let alone anyone with a ball in their hand. He has absolutely nothing over the other bigs on the roster besides the most over rated 3 point shot this side of Manu's balding head and tenure. Thankfully his minutes have been steadily decreasing, because he is becoming more than a liability when he plays extended minutes, he's becoming a detriment to the team, at least Mike Finley can say he is ass old, Bonner doesn't have any excuse, he just flat out doesn't have the talent or ability to do what Pop want's him to do. You can't have a consummate bench warmer playing a starting role for a dynasty with title hopes when you have two better alternatives sitting on the bench who are more productive in the little run they are given than this jabrone.

People on this board can sugar coat it anyway they want and dismiss people like me with snide comments like "do you even watch the games" (half season ticket holder, muffuggas!) or "you're not on the team" but neither are you guys, but in fairness the guy isn't THE reason the Spurs are a mess right now, but he most certainly isn't part of the solution in anyway but in a small role. To say otherwise is insulting, you don't need to be an expert to notice when someone isn't productive enough in their role and if I see that motherfucker stare at another wide open shooter for 3 seconds and not even bother putting a hand up, I'm gonna put my remote through my TV and I really dont want to do that.
/Rant.

say it baby just say it

i need more cowbell

truth to power!

[TDMVPDPOY]

comparing bonner to reddick? hahahahahaha bonner can dunk yo...

[Josepatches_]

Only 14 minutes to Finley today but played well.
7 points 2/2 3PT%

He's not starter but we can use him off the bench.He's not as worse as he seems to be when he has to guard PF or C

[superjames1992]

Maybe we should bring Bonner off the bench. He played quite well tonight coming off the bench. Maybe he fits that role better.

[HarlemHeat37]

Finley played 21 combined minutes in 2 straight games..

Bonner hasn't started in 2 games, and had good games coming off the bench in both..

Have we finally received what we've all wanted?..

[Spurs Brazil]

Bonner with a very nice game

A clutch 3, did I really said that????????????

11pts 9rebs

One more think, Mason to the doghouse

[coyotes_geek]

Finley played 21 combined minutes in 2 straight games..

Bonner hasn't started in 2 games, and had good games coming off the bench in both..

Have we finally received what we've all wanted?..

I'll say we get half. Bogans' D is certainly a welcome sight compared to what we've seen so far this year. If he keeps hitting a decent percentage on his 3's he's really going to eat into Finley's minutes.

With Bonner, I wouldn't be surprised if we see him back in the starting lineup once Duncan returns.

[superjames1992]

Bonner had a nice rebounding night tonight, pulling down nine rebounds, including six on the offensive side.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Bonner: I want to see him used as he's been used for the last two games - energy sub and shooter off the bench. I've said that all along, and I think he's ideally suited to the role.

Starting Bonner is a bad move because then he's playing against starters and tends to get pasted on either D, the boards, or both. As an energy sub he can impact on offense like he has the last two games without being such a liability at the other end because he's generally playing against lesser (bench) players. I have no problem with Bonner playing 20 mins, as long as it is off the bench so that the starters (should be TP/Bogans/RJ/Dice/Tim) can set the defensive tone of the game. As for "spreading the floor for Tim", Dice can do that just as well with his excellent jumpshot out to 20ft, and I also want to see many more hi-low sets for Tim and Dice.

Finley: should only be used at the 2 (3 if absolutely necessary... NEVER at the 4!) as offense off the bench. Like Bonner, he's a liability on defence and the boards. At this point he should be a 10-15min spot guy only.

[booonkers]

so the past few games we got what we wanted no bonner and fin in the starting line-up, does it seem like a coincidence that our defense really improved and gotten more consistent? bonner can play well off the bench when he doesn't have to defend the best bigs of other teams and well fin can still be serviceable in limited mins.

now all we need is for mase to get his mojo back, for manu to get healthy and for blair to get some more playing time. these spurs just need some time. i guess i just really love what im seeing defensively that's why im not losing hope on this team. :toast

[booonkers]

as long as defense is around, we'll be okay. the offense will follow.

[TDMVPDPOY]

its the wizards man, nothing to boast about

[booonkers]

yes i'm not just talking about the wizards but the past few games the d has been good.

[TDMVPDPOY]

yes i'm not just talking about the wizards but the past few games the d has been good.

contract year

[booonkers]

so finley didn't do so well this game. like how mase has been improving the past couple of games. hope this jumpstarts his season.

[superjames1992]

12 points, 8 rebounds, and a block for Bonner tonight. Not bad!

[ElNono]

He's playing better off the bench. And if he's going to average 5+ rebounds a game, my biggest beef with him will be gone. Finley I thought played harder out there too. The problem for him though is that younger guys get around him too easily. Kinda the same problem for Matt with long and athletic guys.

[booonkers]

love the fact that they can play off the bench which they should've been doing from the start.

[HarlemHeat37]

He's playing better off the bench. And if he's going to average 5+ rebounds a game, my biggest beef with him will be gone. Finley I thought played harder out there too. The problem for him though is that younger guys get around him too easily. Kinda the same problem for Matt with long and athletic guys.

I'm still and always will be in favor of Hairston over Finley, but I can live with him if he's giving the effort he was giving tonight, since I doubt Pop ever benches him..

That's definitely true about Bonner, so bringing him off the bench where he won't face too many guys with a high level of talent helps..

[HarlemHeat37]

So now they're both out..it'll be funny if everybody has to eat crow, myself included..

[thOOdee]

IS ANYBODY ELSE EXCITED?!?!?!......I know it sounds bad to be pumped w injuries, but I am really excited to see a team with BIGS WHO CONCENTRATE ON D A LITTLE MORE.
COULD THIS BE FATE?
and if the team actually does better, who thinks pop will bring back bonner and finley to combine for 40 mins still?

[ElNono]

So now they're both out..it'll be funny if everybody has to eat crow, myself included..

Well, so far Finley minutes have been distributed to Mason, Manu and Hill. Hairston hasn't really entered the picture save for spot seconds here and there.
We'll see who gets Matt's minutes... Who do you want to get them if it was your choice and who do you think will?

I'd like to see Theo 10, Dice 5 and Blair 5... but I think we're not going to see Theo and have small ball (maybe with RJ?) taking those 10 minutes (unless there's foul trouble).

[HarlemHeat37]

I agree about small ball, I think we'll see a lot of it with RJ at the 4..

I really don't have any idea what to expect about the rest of the minutes..I actually think Haislip will get a shot, since Pop really likes the big guy stretching the floor..of course it won't work because Haislip sucks IMO, so we'll see what happens..

Probably mix it between Ratliff and smallball depending on the matchup IMO..