Da_Suns_Fan, how was RJ last night?

[phyzik]

Care to spew some more of your misguided, incorrect, hate about RJ? :wakeup

[Mel_13]

He's been so wrong for so long it's doubtful that he changes now.

[z0sa]

Although he knows his own team pretty well, I just can't understand why he'd think RJ can't fit into an offense with multiple options and because of that, he couldn't exert more energy on D. Guy was on a Finals team and is high character. In an offense with many options, he can exert more on D than he ever has, especially a D-oriented team like this one

[quentin_compson]

Although he knows his own team pretty well, I just can't understand why he'd think RJ can't fit into an offense with multiple options and because of that, he couldn't exert more energy on D. Guy was on a Finals team and is high character. In an offense with many options, he can exert more on D than he ever has, especially a D-oriented team like this one

Let's hope we see more proof of this as the season moves on.

[DAF86]

Let's hope we see more proof of this as the season moves on.

That's what I was thinking. I wouldn't be so sure about the Spurs beign as "D-oriented" as in past seasons.

[exstatic]

Let's hope we see more proof of this as the season moves on.


That's what I was thinking. I wouldn't be so sure about the Spurs beign as "D-oriented" as in past seasons.

The worst D game was the win against NO. They shot 50%. The other two were 43 and 45%. That's not too shabby for a new group, especially one playing combinations and players that won't be playing later in the year.

[Allanon]

Dick just wanted to get the game over quickly so he could get over to Luke's house for some trick and treating.

[exstatic]

Dick just wanted to get the game over quickly so he could get over to Luke's house for some trick and treating.

Actually, Phil called and asked him to fill Ron's Thorazine prescription.

[DJB]

Dick just wanted to get the game over quickly so he could get over to Luke's house for some trick and treating.


:lol

[EricB]

The worst D game was the win against NO. They shot 50%. The other two were 43 and 45%. That's not too shabby for a new group, especially one playing combinations and players that won't be playing later in the year.


Don't you know they are supposed to be playing perfectly together and running on all cylinders RIGHT NOW DAMNT!??! HUH!? COME ON EX! Sigh.

[lennyalderette]

[quote=exstatic;3792737]Actually, Phil called and asked him to fill Ron's Thorazine prescription.[/quote
:lmao

[lennyalderette]

sometimes i kinda feel bad for the guy, he looks really screwed up in the head, its amazing hes able to play ball while he's thinking about god knows what! i think hes infatuated with kobe, kinda strange situation out in l.a

[da_suns_fan]

HOLY CRAP! A new thread in the Spurs forum just for me?!!!!!


Yep. I still fill EXACTLY the same way even after Richard had a nice game against the worst team in the NBA. All the Spurs have to do is hope he has a near perfect shooting night every game and he'll totally be worth it! :lol

Just to recap, Ive been called out cuz Jefferson scored 21 points on 7-8 shooting. No assists. Two rebounds and one steal.

Just to reiterate, Ive preached that Jefferson is a volume shooter and one dimensional player who doesnt create for others, rebound, or play defense and not even close to deserving of the 14 million bucks the Spurs are paying him.

But that was BEFORE his game against the Kings! :lol

[EricB]

HOLY CRAP! A new thread in the Spurs forum just for me?!!!!!


Yep. I still fill EXACTLY the same way even after Richard had a nice game against the worst team in the NBA. All the Spurs have to do is hope he has a near perfect shooting night every game and he'll totally be worth it! :lol

Yeah they shoulda kept Bowen, Oberto and Bowen and just hoped against hope that Bosh would sign.

Genius move.

[da_suns_fan]

Although he knows his own team pretty well, I just can't understand why he'd think RJ can't fit into an offense with multiple options and because of that, he couldn't exert more energy on D. Guy was on a Finals team and is high character. In an offense with many options, he can exert more on D than he ever has, especially a D-oriented team like this one

:rolleyes

Fact: The most games the Nets ever won was 50. And that was good enough for the number one seed.

Seriously. That was HOW BAD the East was.

Also, Jefferson is an average defender at best. Jefferson cant create well for others (see nearly 1:1 assist/turnover ratio for his CAREER) and needs lots of shots to score (which he wont get in San Antonio).

Bottom line is this: The Spurs broke rule number one in the General Managing for Dummies handbook: YOU NEVER, EVER TRADE FOR A BAD CONTRACT!! EVER!! Not only do you never get your money's worth, the bad contract player becomes virtually untradeable.

[da_suns_fan]

Yeah they shoulda kept Bowen, Oberto and Bowen and just hoped against hope that Bosh would sign.

Genius move.

Or Joe Johnson or any of the plethera of free agents out there.

Seems to me that Spurs fans are just now clinging to the belief that they would have been INCAPABLE of landing a big free agent even if they had the money (which they could have).

Do you all seriously think that little of your franchise or city?

[Interrohater]

Or Joe Johnson or any of the plethera of free agents out there.

Seems to me that Spurs fans are just now clinging to the belief that they would have been INCAPABLE of landing a big free agent even if they had the money (which they could have).

Do you all seriously think that little of your franchise or city?

yes.

Also, good luck this year, I think your team will need it.

[da_suns_fan]

yes.

Also, good luck this year, I think your team will need it.

My team needs a lot more than luck. They'd need someone dumb enough to take away our own "Richard Jefferson" in Jason Richardson and give us a real big man who actually likes contact and can rebound.

But most of all, my team needs to dump its frugal owner and his silly puppet/spin-master Steve Kerr.

But dont kid yourselves about free agents. Ive said it a dozen times now. I GUARANTEE Joe Johnson will go to the highest bidder. And he's seriously everything Spurs fans are CLAIMING Richard Jefferson to be.

[Muser]

This is just a copy/paste of other RJ threads. I disagree with DSF but I respect his opinion, can we please stop making these threads now?

[da_suns_fan]

This is just a copy/paste of other RJ threads. I disagree with DSF but I respect his opinion, can we please stop making these threads now?

:lol

Yes, Im definitely repeating myself.

But dont blame ME!!! I was called out!! :lol

[exstatic]

Or Joe Johnson or any of the plethera of free agents out there.

Seems to me that Spurs fans are just now clinging to the belief that they would have been INCAPABLE of landing a big free agent even if they had the money (which they could have).

Do you all seriously think that little of your franchise or city?

I think it's a combination of not thinking any of the BIG fish (LeBron, Wade) are leaving their cities, and not wanting to waste one of only three years left in Duncan's career.

None of the rest of the FAs (Bosh, Joe J, Amare) can do anything, post Duncan, as shown by their current career direction, so why sign them and have them F'ing up the cap and keeping you at the bottom of the lottery or borderline playoffs? You blow it up after Duncan and start over.

[z0sa]

:rolleyes

Fact: The most games the Nets ever won was 50. And that was good enough for the number one seed.

Seriously. That was HOW BAD the East was.

Don't know how any of this changes the fact he is a high character guy who played an integral part on a finals team.


Also, Jefferson is an average defender at best.

Ridiculous. He's an average defender, I could see your perspective. But at BEST? Bullshit. Besides, premature ejaculation. He could still be an above average defender on this a team, a team more predicated on D and having the most talented offensive options he's ever played with.


Jefferson cant create well for others (see nearly 1:1 assist/turnover ratio for his CAREER)

First, you need to put things into perspective here. Jefferson was traded in exchange for our garbage. He is a high character guy, who fits in with our team's mentality. Whether or not he is an extraordinary creator for our role players doesn't mean dick, because we traded trash to get him.

Why didn't we wait for a free agent in 2010? Because Tim wants to contend THIS year. Additionally, we needed someone besides Tony on the perimeter who can play big minutes without health issues - so we can keep Parker and others happy and healthy.


and needs lots of shots to score (which he wont get in San Antonio).

Give it time. He is already becoming more aggressive, and he will get plenty of shots. You seem to think that he simply can't score more efficiently even though he's going to face single coverage nearly always because of all the other options. He's actually quite efficient for a supposed volume shooter, as well - his career FG% is 47%, and last season he shot 40% from 3 (career is around 36%).

[EricB]

Jefferson when focused on it is a DAMN good defender.

Personally I don't get Bruno's claims the team is no better defensively than last year. The personnel IMO is much improved from Dice and Jefferson to Theo Ratliff and even Bogans to a certain extent.

[EmptyMan]

who doesnt create for others, rebound, or play defense

LOL @ you son.

[Blackjack]

Here's what Bruno actually said:


Spurs are going to be one of the worst shot blocking team in the league (somewhere in the bottom three).

While I think shot-blocking is overrated, Spurs clearly don't have the players to be a great defensive team.


I'm not in the thread starter head but I don't think his reaction is only based on the Bulls game. At least, mine isn't.

Most of Spurs players have been in the league for years and you know how they will play. When you look at the 10 players in Spurs' rotation, Spurs won't be a top3 defensive team in the league.


Ginobili and McDyess are nowhere near great defender and Hill is your backup PG.


When you look at this year's and last year's Spurs roster, it's quite unlikely that Spurs will be significantly better than last year on the defensive end. They should be good but not great.

Obviously I agree, since I was the thread starter he agreed with.

[SpursFanInAustin]

I don't understand how scoring 21 pts on 8 field goal attempts makes you a volume shooter.

A volume shooter would mean something around the likes of 21 pts on somewhere between 15-22 field goal attempts to get his 21 pts. Meaning one point per shot attempt.

[OrEmuN]

:rolleyes

Bottom line is this: The Spurs broke rule number one in the General Managing for Dummies handbook: YOU NEVER, EVER TRADE FOR A BAD CONTRACT!! EVER!! Not only do you never get your money's worth, the bad contract player becomes virtually untradeable.

To be fair, I do think 14 million for RJ is a bit steep. However, I do not think that it is a bad contract, given that it is only a 2 yr contract. If things do not work out w RJ, we can still resign Parker and make a run at some free agents.

If we had gone for the 2010 free agents and it does not work out, it will probably mean we are tied for 5-6 yrs. That's worse

[EmptyMan]

RJ is a volume shooting no defense playing chump. Just because you Spurs fans saw him cut his rows you think he is all of a sudden going to play D?

http://www.customauthenticjerseys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/allen-iverson.jpg

[spursfan1000]

RJ is the shit

[da_suns_fan]

Don't know how any of this changes the fact he is a high character guy who played an integral part on a finals team.

I know hes a high character guy. But the fact that the Nets went to the finals means little.



Ridiculous. He's an average defender, I could see your perspective. But at BEST? Bullshit. Besides, premature ejaculation. He could still be an above average defender on this a team, a team more predicated on D and having the most talented offensive options he's ever played with.

Well we agree that he is an average defender then. I dont necessarily disagree that he cant be a better defender in the SPurs system, but I dont think I will ever worry about Jefferson covering one of our players.



First, you need to put things into perspective here. Jefferson was traded in exchange for our garbage. He is a high character guy, who fits in with our team's mentality. Whether or not he is an extraordinary creator for our role players doesn't mean dick, because we traded trash to get him.

Well you are in the minority of Spurs fans since you agree that he doesnt create well for others. And if he cant do that, that Im not sure how he's suppose to "carry the offense" as the Spurs are expecting him to.

Also, you say you gave up "dick" to get him, but you gave up a lot of expiring contracts before one of the most anticipated summer free agency periods in NBA history. You gave up your chance to replace Ginobili with an all star or get an all-star big to pair with Duncan so you could have Richard Jefferson. The only response Ive heard to this was "Well we wouldnt have gotten any of those guys anyway". Well, I think its selling yourself short. The Spurs front office spent YEARS setting themselves up to rebuild without missing a beat and now they have ZERO options.

They cant let Ginobili walk because theyre too far over the cap now to sign anyone else. They cant cant trade Jefferson because his numbers WILL GO DOWN and no one is going to pay 14 million for that guy. They put all their egss in one basket. Its bizzarely similar to some of the bone-head moves that Steve Kerr has made (such as SHaquille Oneal and Jason Richardson). A move that might look good on paper but ends up just screwing your options up for YEARS.



Why didn't we wait for a free agent in 2010? Because Tim wants to contend THIS year. Additionally, we needed someone besides Tony on the perimeter who can play big minutes without health issues - so we can keep Parker and others happy and healthy.

Hi. Im Trevor Ariza. I do all that stuff and Im four years younger and make 1/3 as much as Jefferson.




Give it time. He is already becoming more aggressive, and he will get plenty of shots. You seem to think that he simply can't score more efficiently even though he's going to face single coverage nearly always because of all the other options. He's actually quite efficient for a supposed volume shooter, as well - his career FG% is 47%, and last season he shot 40% from 3 (career is around 36%).

Way to cherry pick stats. Did you think I wouldnt notice? You cant use his career field goal percentage (but not last years) and last year's three point shooting (but not his career) to prove that he's a good shooter. Lets just see how well he shoots this year.

I respect the idea that the Spurs didnt think they could get a big name next year and the fan base wanted SOMETHING. Theyre in a small market and they needed to do something to stay relevant after getting bounced in the first round last year. But I think this move smelled of desperation and theyll end up regretting it. Thats what I think, anyway.

[da_suns_fan]

To be fair, I do think 14 million for RJ is a bit steep. However, I do not think that it is a bad contract, given that it is only a 2 yr contract. If things do not work out w RJ, we can still resign Parker and make a run at some free agents.

If we had gone for the 2010 free agents and it does not work out, it will probably mean we are tied for 5-6 yrs. That's worse

Thats true. Maybe its not as bad as I previously stated. Its only two years so it is more of a "roll the dice" move than some other bad moves we've seen.

I dont know what free agents will be available two years from now. I doubt it will be as deep as this years.

You should have heard my conversation the night before the Suns traded for Shaq. We all heard the rumors and I told my buddy "No way. The Suns arent THAT dumb! Shaq is BURIED in Miami! No team is gonna trade for him until the last year of that ridiculous contract!"

But they WERE that dumb.

Off subject, I know. I just get so heated when I think of what a cluster our front office is.

[#2!]

Thats true. Maybe its not as bad as I previously stated. Its only two years so it is more of a "roll the dice" move than some other bad moves we've seen.

I dont know what free agents will be available two years from now. I doubt it will be as deep as this years.

You should have heard my conversation the night before the Suns traded for Shaq. We all heard the rumors and I told my buddy "No way. The Suns arent THAT dumb! Shaq is BURIED in Miami! No team is gonna trade for him until the last year of that ridiculous contract!"

But they WERE that dumb.

Off subject, I know. I just get so heated when I think of what a cluster our front office is.

I agree that RJ's contract isn't appropriate for his talent level, but I think you underestimate his skill set to the team. You say he can't create, and maybe he won't on a consistent basis, but he has already shown that he is capable. And besides that he can create much much better than the players he was traded for, and he is also a great offensive option w/out creating. Manu will be creating more this season than ever, he's said so himself, so RJ doesn't even have to worry about it honestly.

His defense, and rebounding to a lesser extent, will improve as he spends more time focussing on it throughout the season. He is already an average defender at worst, so while he won't be Bowen he is passable and will actually be on the court (unlike Bruce).

So is he $28M good? No. Will he be a key contributor? Yes.

[z0sa]

I know hes a high character guy. But the fact that the Nets went to the finals means little.

I disagree. He had a big role and good chemistry on a contending team early in his career. That's the exact type of player we need right now. Someone who can build chemistry and understands what it takes to win - and been around big time players and winners.

RJ is a near perfect fit, if you ask me.




Well we agree that he is an average defender then.

I didn't say that. If you had said "He's only an average defender," and left it at that, I could see your perspective. However, simply calling him an average defender AT BEST is a far fetched opinion. I think, in this situation, at worst he's an average defender since he's focusing so hard on that end. I expect pretty great things defensively from him, not statsheet filling maybe, but good, solid D night in and night out. I don't care much about the stats anyway; I'm quite familar with an all-time great defender named Bowen who didn't contribute much to the stat sheet essentially ever, yet still played one of the biggest roles on multiple title winning teams. I'm not comparing the two's skills or attributes as much as their willingness to fit whatever role the team needs.


I dont necessarily disagree that he cant be a better defender in the SPurs system, but I dont think I will ever worry about Jefferson covering one of our players.

Good for you!




Well you are in the minority of Spurs fans since you agree that he doesnt create well for others.

Again, I didn't say that, though I do see where you're coming from. That said, OTOH you have a guy who was the number 1 option often last season yet barely averaged 2 TOs. He doesn't create a lot of offense for others, but he's more efficient than you imply.


And if he cant do that, that Im not sure how he's suppose to "carry the offense" as the Spurs are expecting him to.

By carrying the offense, that means score score score. We need him to put points on the board and play solid defense on the other end. He's not going huge amounts of defensive attention anymore, especially when he's got Parker, Manu and/or Tim on the floor with him. You don't realize that is why we traded for him - to take some of the scoring load off our big 3, while providing athleticism and the ability to play D, and to do it consistently ie without injury. Those guys aren't worried about shots during the regular season, they're worried about rings at the start of next season, especially Tim.


Also, you say you gave up "dick" to get him, but you gave up a lot of expiring contracts before one of the most anticipated summer free agency periods in NBA history.

Dude, I counter-argued this before you even posted it so you don't have to "keep repeating yourself." TIM WANTS TO CONTEND THIS YEAR. The Spurs owe to him and the fans to put a contender out there rather than waste another year. Additionally, you don't see that if by waiting til 2010, we may still lose Manu and yet still don't have RJ. What's better for winning a title in 2011: Manu and RJ, or Joe Johnson?


The only response Ive heard to this was "Well we wouldnt have gotten any of those guys anyway". Well, I think its selling yourself short. The Spurs front office spent YEARS setting themselves up to rebuild without missing a beat and now they have ZERO options.

Zero options? We have a great team and we're basically penciled in to the playoffs as a contender already. We got IMO a perfect piece in RJ, without losing Manu, who can limit Manu and Tim's minutes without sacrificing offense. We lost garbage that didn't do jack for us last playoffs or retired subsequently. There's really no cons, only possible pros in this situation.


They cant let Ginobili walk because theyre too far over the cap now to sign anyone else.

Manu isn't going anywhere anyway. You act like we don't hold all the cards - remember, we're the ones who didn't offer him an extension. Let's see how much money he fetches even with a solid 2010, before we start jumping to conclusions. He's most likely best off here if he wants to keep winning titles AND keep earning a pretty damn good paycheck.


They cant cant trade Jefferson because his numbers WILL GO DOWN and no one is going to pay 14 million for that guy.

They're not going to trade RJ. He's in our longterm (next 2 years of contention) plans. He's our instant-offense, he's healthy, he can play big minutes, he's athletic and one of our most exciting new players in years (it is a down economy and everyone's hurting) and he's probably going to D up the opposing star player pretty damn often.


They put all their egss in one basket. Its bizzarely similar to some of the bone-head moves that Steve Kerr has made (such as SHaquille Oneal and Jason Richardson). A move that might look good on paper but ends up just screwing your options up for YEARS.

The Shaq trade looked horrible on paper IMO, the JRich one didn't look exactly great to those who knew Bell and especially Diaw's worth. It's an entirely different subject with entirely different people and ideas, but Shaq and Nash's styles are too conflicting to summarize and oversimplify the issues.




Hi. Im Trevor Ariza. I do all that stuff and Im four years younger and make 1/3 as much as Jefferson.

Ariza has talent, but there a couple reasons why we didn't go after him. First and most importantly, we could not have signed both him and McDyess. Our bigman situation was and is still more important than the perimeter logjam, but that said no one would be stupid enough (no offense intended but you're opinion is fairly wild) to pass up that Gasol-collusionesque trade for RJ.

Second and more fundamentally oriented, Ariza doesn't have the experience or proven offensive ability to have been "that" perimeter guy we needed - at least, not yet, not in time for Tim to win more titles. Ariza has a title under his belt and he played a solid role, but that's all he did - roleplay off the superstars. His defense is better, maybe even much better than RJ's, but his offense at this point is a complete mystery, as is his ability to hold up as a 1/2 option night in and night out for an entire season. With RJ, we know he can play 82 games as a number 1 or 2 option night in and night out, while averaging 20 points and 5 boards. Ariza doesn't know what thats like.





Way to cherry pick stats. Did you think I wouldnt notice? You cant use his career field goal percentage (but not last years) and last year's three point shooting (but not his career) to prove that he's a good shooter. Lets just see how well he shoots this year.

Come the fuck on! Come off it, you're overly self-righteous Those are the most relevant stats you can use at this point, and that's the only reason I used them.

First of all, I DID use his career 3p%. Reread.

Second, you can't use last year's FG% to accurately predict how well he's going to do in this new role. This role is going to be much more like the one he had in NJ, only he will be making more of his own offense. It's going to be a sort of mix between the roles - he'll still get open court looks from Manu/Parker and others, but he'll also be calling his own number in the half court. That is why I used his career FG% rather than last year's.

[da_suns_fan]

I disagree. He had a big role and good chemistry on a contending team early in his career. That's the exact type of player we need right now. Someone who can build chemistry and understands what it takes to win - and been around big time players and winners.

RJ is a near perfect fit, if you ask me.





I didn't say that. If you had said "He's only an average defender," and left it at that, I could see your perspective. However, simply calling him an average defender AT BEST is a far fetched opinion. I think, in this situation, at worst he's an average defender since he's focusing so hard on that end. I expect pretty great things defensively from him, not statsheet filling maybe, but good, solid D night in and night out. I don't care much about the stats anyway; I'm quite familar with an all-time great defender named Bowen who didn't contribute much to the stat sheet essentially ever, yet still played one of the biggest roles on multiple title winning teams. I'm not comparing the two's skills or attributes as much as their willingness to fit whatever role the team needs.



Good for you!





Again, I didn't say that, though I do see where you're coming from. That said, OTOH you have a guy who was the number 1 option often last season yet barely averaged 2 TOs. He doesn't create a lot of offense for others, but he's more efficient than you imply.



By carrying the offense, that means score score score. We need him to put points on the board and play solid defense on the other end. He's not going huge amounts of defensive attention anymore, especially when he's got Parker, Manu and/or Tim on the floor with him. You don't realize that is why we traded for him - to take some of the scoring load off our big 3, while providing athleticism and the ability to play D, and to do it consistently ie without injury. Those guys aren't worried about shots during the regular season, they're worried about rings at the start of next season, especially Tim.



Dude, I counter-argued this before you even posted it so you don't have to "keep repeating yourself." TIM WANTS TO CONTEND THIS YEAR. The Spurs owe to him and the fans to put a contender out there rather than waste another year. Additionally, you don't see that if by waiting til 2010, we may still lose Manu and yet still don't have RJ. What's better for winning a title in 2011: Manu and RJ, or Joe Johnson?



Zero options? We have a great team and we're basically penciled in to the playoffs as a contender already. We got IMO a perfect piece in RJ, without losing Manu, who can limit Manu and Tim's minutes without sacrificing offense. We lost garbage that didn't do jack for us last playoffs or retired subsequently. There's really no cons, only possible pros in this situation.



Manu isn't going anywhere anyway. You act like we don't hold all the cards - remember, we're the ones who didn't offer him an extension. Let's see how much money he fetches even with a solid 2010, before we start jumping to conclusions. He's most likely best off here if he wants to keep winning titles AND keep earning a pretty damn good paycheck.



They're not going to trade RJ. He's in our longterm (next 2 years of contention) plans. He's our instant-offense, he's healthy, he can play big minutes, he's athletic and one of our most exciting new players in years (it is a down economy and everyone's hurting) and he's probably going to D up the opposing star player pretty damn often.



The Shaq trade looked horrible on paper IMO, the JRich one didn't look exactly great to those who knew Bell and especially Diaw's worth. It's an entirely different subject with entirely different people and ideas, but Shaq and Nash's styles are too conflicting to summarize and oversimplify the issues.





Ariza has talent, but there a couple reasons why we didn't go after him. First and most importantly, we could not have signed both him and McDyess. Our bigman situation was and is still more important than the perimeter logjam, but that said no one would be stupid enough (no offense intended but you're opinion is fairly wild) to pass up that Gasol-collusionesque trade for RJ.

Second and more fundamentally oriented, Ariza doesn't have the experience or proven offensive ability to have been "that" perimeter guy we needed - at least, not yet, not in time for Tim to win more titles. Ariza has a title under his belt and he played a solid role, but that's all he did - roleplay off the superstars. His defense is better, maybe even much better than RJ's, but his offense at this point is a complete mystery, as is his ability to hold up as a 1/2 option night in and night out for an entire season. With RJ, we know he can play 82 games as a number 1 or 2 option night in and night out, while averaging 20 points and 5 boards. Ariza doesn't know what thats like.






Come the fuck on! Come off it, you're overly self-righteous Those are the most relevant stats you can use at this point, and that's the only reason I used them.

First of all, I DID use his career 3p%. Reread.

Second, you can't use last year's FG% to accurately predict how well he's going to do in this new role. This role is going to be much more like the one he had in NJ, only he will be making more of his own offense. It's going to be a sort of mix between the roles - he'll still get open court looks from Manu/Parker and others, but he'll also be calling his own number in the half court. That is why I used his career FG% rather than last year's.

:lol

Fair enough. You make some good points. I still think that it wasnt a good move but it might be too much hindsight and too much speculation on my part. THeres no way the Spurs could predict what will happen this summer and no guarantee they could have gotten Ariza (who I think would have been more "perfect" than Jefferson).

I think Jefferson will be able to hit big shots where the guys last year werent able to, its just the trade just seemed so..."un-spurs" like. The Spurs havent had a guy making any type of money who didnt play up to his value for years and years! Theyve been both lucky and smart. Im not expecting anything more than 12-14 ppg and 3-5 rebounds from Jefferson for the season. THats just not a lot for 14 mil.

If we assume that they wouldnt have gotten a FA in the off-season and they wouldnt have been able to get Ariza...then was it a worthwhile move? I guess......but I dont think the Spurs have as good of a shot at dethroning the Lakers as most Spurs fans do and think its probable they'll regret the move two years from now if they dont win the title. Especially if a bunch of stars bolt for other teams this summer.

So I guess we'll see. I'll drop the anti-Jefferson rhetoric. You have my word.

[phyzik]

So I guess we'll see. I'll drop the anti-Jefferson rhetoric. You have my word.

Booked.

Honesly, I really think you are going to get proven wrong in the best kind of way.... Another victory over a bitter ass suns fan.

[da_suns_fan]

Booked.

Honesly, I really think you are going to get proven wrong in the best kind of way.... Another victory over a bitter ass suns fan.

:lol

YOU cant claim victory. Zosa was the one who shut me up.

[#2!]

:lol

YOU cant claim victory. Zosa was the one who shut me up.

What am I chopped liver?
:lol
damn low post count...

[da_suns_fan]

What am I chopped liver?
:lol
damn low post count...

Yes, you changed my mind about some things as well. :toast

[mazerrackham]

What!?!? there are people capable of changing their minds after debating a topic on a forum? I didn't know...

[z0sa]

:lol

Fair enough. You make some good points. I still think that it wasnt a good move but it might be too much hindsight and too much speculation on my part. THeres no way the Spurs could predict what will happen this summer and no guarantee they could have gotten Ariza (who I think would have been more "perfect" than Jefferson).

I think Jefferson will be able to hit big shots where the guys last year werent able to, its just the trade just seemed so..."un-spurs" like. The Spurs havent had a guy making any type of money who didnt play up to his value for years and years! Theyve been both lucky and smart. Im not expecting anything more than 12-14 ppg and 3-5 rebounds from Jefferson for the season. THats just not a lot for 14 mil.

If we assume that they wouldnt have gotten a FA in the off-season and they wouldnt have been able to get Ariza...then was it a worthwhile move? I guess......but I dont think the Spurs have as good of a shot at dethroning the Lakers as most Spurs fans do and think its probable they'll regret the move two years from now if they dont win the title. Especially if a bunch of stars bolt for other teams this summer.

So I guess we'll see. I'll drop the anti-Jefferson rhetoric. You have my word.

Far out. :toast

[AussieFanKurt]

dont worry suns fan.
RJ will prove you wrong

[OrEmuN]

Thats true. Maybe its not as bad as I previously stated. Its only two years so it is more of a "roll the dice" move than some other bad moves we've seen.

I dont know what free agents will be available two years from now. I doubt it will be as deep as this years.



With Duncan, Parker and Jefferson's contract running out, we may be able to make a good run at the free agents. Let's look at them now

2011 free agents will consist of Yao Ming, Pau Gasol, Josh Howard, Caron Butler, David West, Jason Richardson, Tayshaun Prince, John Salmons, Kenyon Martin.
Next, I was looking this article (quoted at the end of this) on how the 2010 free agent class can become free agent in 2011 instead, namely Lebron, Wade and Bosh. Other potential free agents are C.Anthony, Durant and Oden.

Our FO made the decision to go with RJ now so as to give Duncan a 2 year window to win, instead of 1 year window. We (including our FO) absolutely adore Duncan so we want to make it happen for him, even at the expense of lux tax and 14 million for RJ who is admittedly not as good as Lebron or Wade. However, RJ gives us the flexibility to either blow up the whole roster and restart or to retool in 2010, depending on the situation.

I just thought of the above and realised how our FO may have the same thoughts. Of course, please correct me if I am wrong.

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2009/08/how-the-prized-2010-free-agency-could-be-pushed-to-2011/

[cherylsteele]

:rolleyes

Fact: The most games the Nets ever won was 50. And that was good enough for the number one seed.

Fiction actually, they won 52 games in 2001-02 season, try again.

[Manufan909]

What!?!? there are people capable of changing their minds after debating a topic on a forum? I didn't know...

First time I've seen it too.:lol

[phyzik]

:wakeup

[phyzik]

Richard Jefferson

29 points 7 rebounds 4 assists

[da_suns_fan]

Just to reiterate, Ive preached that Jefferson is a volume shooter and one dimensional player who doesnt create for others, rebound, or play defense and not even close to deserving of the 14 million bucks the Spurs are paying him.



Bump. Ive dropped the Jefferson rhetoric since November 1st (when I made the post above), but I'd to remind everyone how you all MOCKED me. I was told only a Suns fan would see a negative in the Jefferson trade.

[BadOdor]

Yo sun fan, can I got same lottery numbers please? lol bukkaked all over spur fan in this one - Sun fan saw through spur fan homerism and called Dick to be exactly what he is - A bum. Lol spur fan hyping Dick in this thread. Lol Dick Lol Dick(deserves double lol).

[anonoftheinternets]

Bump. Ive dropped the Jefferson rhetoric since November 1st (when I made the post above), but I'd to remind everyone how you all MOCKED me. I was told only a Suns fan would see a negative in the Jefferson trade.

props... i guess the jason richardon trade ensured you were wiser ...

[da_suns_fan]

Bump.

[da_suns_fan]

HOLY CRAP! A new thread in the Spurs forum just for me?!!!!!


Yep. I still fill EXACTLY the same way even after Richard had a nice game against the worst team in the NBA. All the Spurs have to do is hope he has a near perfect shooting night every game and he'll totally be worth it! :lol

Just to recap, Ive been called out cuz Jefferson scored 21 points on 7-8 shooting. No assists. Two rebounds and one steal.

Just to reiterate, Ive preached that Jefferson is a volume shooter and one dimensional player who doesnt create for others, rebound, or play defense and not even close to deserving of the 14 million bucks the Spurs are paying him.

But that was BEFORE his game against the Kings! :lol

And people still doubt me. That post was made after RJ's first game as a Spur.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol I used to defend RJ, too, at one point..

You should have bumped this earlier..at this point, there are no longer any posters that support him, tbh..

[ElNono]

da_suns_fans with the hindsight hammer :lol

[objective]

:lol I used to defend RJ, too, at one point..

You should have bumped this earlier..at this point, there are no longer any posters that support him, tbh..

Oh, they're still around. Hell, Bonner still has supporters, some were even on this thread (supporting RJ, unsurprisingly).

[GoodOdor]

suns fan took it easy on zosa and pyzik tbh......they deserve to have their noses rubbed in the shit they posted:lol

[da_suns_fan]

This bump is about a year late.

Pyzik should be banned from ever speaking about basketball again.

[hater]

:lmao can't believe there were ppl defending RJ

how is that possible???? dude sucked cock from day 1

[hater]

I disagree. He had a big role and good chemistry on a contending team early in his career. That's the exact type of player we need right now. Someone who can build chemistry and understands what it takes to win - and been around big time players and winners.

RJ is a near perfect fit, if you ask me.





I didn't say that. If you had said "He's only an average defender," and left it at that, I could see your perspective. However, simply calling him an average defender AT BEST is a far fetched opinion. I think, in this situation, at worst he's an average defender since he's focusing so hard on that end. I expect pretty great things defensively from him, not statsheet filling maybe, but good, solid D night in and night out. I don't care much about the stats anyway; I'm quite familar with an all-time great defender named Bowen who didn't contribute much to the stat sheet essentially ever, yet still played one of the biggest roles on multiple title winning teams. I'm not comparing the two's skills or attributes as much as their willingness to fit whatever role the team needs.



Good for you!





Again, I didn't say that, though I do see where you're coming from. That said, OTOH you have a guy who was the number 1 option often last season yet barely averaged 2 TOs. He doesn't create a lot of offense for others, but he's more efficient than you imply.



By carrying the offense, that means score score score. We need him to put points on the board and play solid defense on the other end. He's not going huge amounts of defensive attention anymore, especially when he's got Parker, Manu and/or Tim on the floor with him. You don't realize that is why we traded for him - to take some of the scoring load off our big 3, while providing athleticism and the ability to play D, and to do it consistently ie without injury. Those guys aren't worried about shots during the regular season, they're worried about rings at the start of next season, especially Tim.



Dude, I counter-argued this before you even posted it so you don't have to "keep repeating yourself." TIM WANTS TO CONTEND THIS YEAR. The Spurs owe to him and the fans to put a contender out there rather than waste another year. Additionally, you don't see that if by waiting til 2010, we may still lose Manu and yet still don't have RJ. What's better for winning a title in 2011: Manu and RJ, or Joe Johnson?



Zero options? We have a great team and we're basically penciled in to the playoffs as a contender already. We got IMO a perfect piece in RJ, without losing Manu, who can limit Manu and Tim's minutes without sacrificing offense. We lost garbage that didn't do jack for us last playoffs or retired subsequently. There's really no cons, only possible pros in this situation.



Manu isn't going anywhere anyway. You act like we don't hold all the cards - remember, we're the ones who didn't offer him an extension. Let's see how much money he fetches even with a solid 2010, before we start jumping to conclusions. He's most likely best off here if he wants to keep winning titles AND keep earning a pretty damn good paycheck.



They're not going to trade RJ. He's in our longterm (next 2 years of contention) plans. He's our instant-offense, he's healthy, he can play big minutes, he's athletic and one of our most exciting new players in years (it is a down economy and everyone's hurting) and he's probably going to D up the opposing star player pretty damn often.



The Shaq trade looked horrible on paper IMO, the JRich one didn't look exactly great to those who knew Bell and especially Diaw's worth. It's an entirely different subject with entirely different people and ideas, but Shaq and Nash's styles are too conflicting to summarize and oversimplify the issues.





Ariza has talent, but there a couple reasons why we didn't go after him. First and most importantly, we could not have signed both him and McDyess. Our bigman situation was and is still more important than the perimeter logjam, but that said no one would be stupid enough (no offense intended but you're opinion is fairly wild) to pass up that Gasol-collusionesque trade for RJ.

Second and more fundamentally oriented, Ariza doesn't have the experience or proven offensive ability to have been "that" perimeter guy we needed - at least, not yet, not in time for Tim to win more titles. Ariza has a title under his belt and he played a solid role, but that's all he did - roleplay off the superstars. His defense is better, maybe even much better than RJ's, but his offense at this point is a complete mystery, as is his ability to hold up as a 1/2 option night in and night out for an entire season. With RJ, we know he can play 82 games as a number 1 or 2 option night in and night out, while averaging 20 points and 5 boards. Ariza doesn't know what thats like.






Come the fuck on! Come off it, you're overly self-righteous Those are the most relevant stats you can use at this point, and that's the only reason I used them.

First of all, I DID use his career 3p%. Reread.

Second, you can't use last year's FG% to accurately predict how well he's going to do in this new role. This role is going to be much more like the one he had in NJ, only he will be making more of his own offense. It's going to be a sort of mix between the roles - he'll still get open court looks from Manu/Parker and others, but he'll also be calling his own number in the half court. That is why I used his career FG% rather than last year's.


holy shit :wow

:lol :lol :lol :lol

[z0sa]

Laughing at statistically-backed speculation and positivity concerning a new acquisition is your standard bush league ST stuff. Stephen Jackson's second stint is actually garbage in comparison to RJ's yet im sure you were all over that trades nuts.

[phyzik]

Ouch :lmao

[da_suns_fan]

Care to spew some more of your misguided, incorrect, hate about RJ? :wakeup

Bump for RJ getting a ring.

[da_suns_fan]

HOLY CRAP! A new thread in the Spurs forum just for me?!!!!!


Yep. I still fill EXACTLY the same way even after Richard had a nice game against the worst team in the NBA. All the Spurs have to do is hope he has a near perfect shooting night every game and he'll totally be worth it! :lol

Just to recap, Ive been called out cuz Jefferson scored 21 points on 7-8 shooting. No assists. Two rebounds and one steal.

Just to reiterate, Ive preached that Jefferson is a volume shooter and one dimensional player who doesnt create for others, rebound, or play defense and not even close to deserving of the 14 million bucks the Spurs are paying him.

But that was BEFORE his game against the Kings! :lol

Jeez Im good.