Why is the native american genocide almost never mentioned or discussed?

[Kamnik]

At least not in the mainstream media as much as I follow it...

There is also not any bigger national holiday that would remind of the sufferings of the natives.

Also I noticed there is quite little information about it in the wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#United_States_of_America

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act

There is a lot of holidays and diferent things that acknowledge slavery and educate about it but what happened to the natives is practically ignored as I see it.

Why is that?

[spursncowboys]

True. It would have been one thing had Jackson kept his word to the allied tribes.

Inside the Indian reservations are a perfect example of how good intentions going bad- govt. checks for being indian, creating slaves dependent on the govt. Never seeing their full potential.

[boutons_deux]

Genocide of American aborigines, and 100s of years of slavery, conflict with America's childish myth as a country and people pristine, exceptional, and superior to all other countries and peoples.

[coyotes_geek]

Squeaky wheel gets the oil, and there aren't enough NA's left to make much of a squeak.

[balli]

If you're not a self-loathing white person... and if you're not partially ashamed of America's ancestors and heritage. You're... not me.

[MannyIsGod]

There was no good intentions involving the Indian reservations and they are a great example of bad intentions gone as they planned.

[Trainwreck2100]

Squeaky wheel gets the oil, and there aren't enough NA's left to make much of a squeak.

why would they sqeak when they keep getting free shit

[coyotes_geek]

why would they sqeak when they keep getting free shit

That must be it. They are all living lives of luxury and literally have nothing to complain about.

[Winehole23]

why would they sqeak when they keep getting free shitBecause we're still ripping them off.

http://www.indiantrust.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.ViewDetail&PressRelease_id=155&Month=2&Year=2006

[Homeland Security]

Blacks had charismatic leadership in the 1960's which penetrated the hearts of white people and made them feel guilty and needing to do restitution.

Native Americans were mostly wiped out and those who are left are thoroughly conquered.


If you're not a self-loathing white person... and if you're not partially ashamed of America's ancestors and heritage. You're... not me.
People like you are great because ultimately you're as easy to dominate as say... Native Americans. You're totally immobilized by guilt and angst about which you can do nothing. Makes for a convenient excuse to fail though. You're just doing your part to even things out.

[coyotes_geek]

Because we're still ripping them off.

http://www.indiantrust.com/index.cfm...th=2&Year=2006

Silly injuns. Why can't they just shut the hell up and learn to trust the government with our money like the rest of us?

[hope4dopes]

If you're not a self-loathing white person... and if you're not partially ashamed of America's ancestors and heritage. You're... not me.And believe me when I say most of us get down on our knees and thank God we're not you.

[boutons_deux]

I guess all those Americans and railroad/forest/mining barons who wanted to grab the Indians' lands were AGAINST the US govt slaughetering the Indians?

It's the government's fault, doing the bidding of the citizens?

St Ronnie, you should lived long enough to see how as President, abetted by the neo-c*nts, you fucked up America, spreading hate and distrust of all things governmental (except the imperial military and its super-wealthy contractors and suppliers).

[hope4dopes]

At least not in the mainstream media as much as I follow it...

There is also not any bigger national holiday that would remind of the sufferings of the natives.

Also I noticed there is quite little information about it in the wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#United_States_of_America

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act

There is a lot of holidays and diferent things that acknowledge slavery and educate about it but what happened to the natives is practically ignored as I see it.

Why is that? Genocide I wasn't aware the indians had dissapeared, I thought they were following the way of their ancestors, following the good red road. ........running casinos.

[hope4dopes]

Because we're still ripping them off.

http://www.indiantrust.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.ViewDetail&PressRelease_id=155&Month=2&Year=2006 Ahh.. the MLK of suburbia once agian rises to lend his strength to the poor and oppresed.

[Winehole23]

You don't know jack about me, micca.

[Kamnik]

Also another thing that I cannot understand is why basically 99% of American presidents are treated and talked about like they are saints.

Truth is that many of them did some really nasty shit. Either with slavery, either with native americans etc.

There were some good and some bad; like in every other aspect of human history.

[hope4dopes]

Also another thing that I cannot understand is why basically 99% of American presidents are treated and talked about like they are saints.

Truth is that many of them did some really nasty shit. Either with slavery, either with native americans etc.

There were some good and some bad; like in every other aspect of human history. Woe the vanquished....... dude have a little historical perspective.

[Kamnik]

Woe the vanquished....... dude have a little historical perspective.

I don't get what you mean with your first sentence.


And I am not saying I know a great deal about about native americans.

Hell, probably the most I know about the NAs is from the movie "Dancing with the wolves" :lol

However... In Europe there was A LOT of shit and killing during the last 100 years. But at least most of it is acknowleged and discussed.

[rjv]

many genocides are rarely spoken of: the armenians in the early 1900's, the genocide in guatemala, and of course the mass destruction of native american culture in the US.

of course, the US had something to do with the last 2 mentioned and turned their back to the first.

[rjv]

Ahh.. the MLK of suburbia once agian rises to lend his strength to the poor and oppresed.

or just balance off the white hoods.

[hope4dopes]

I don't get what you mean with your first sentence.


And I am not saying I know a great deal about about native americans.

Hell, probably the most I know about the NAs is from the movie "Dancing with the wolves" :lol

However... In Europe there was A LOT of shit and killing during the last 100 years. But at least most of it is acknowleged and discussed.

Well I don't know where you been, but this shits been discussed and aknowledged for decades now.The first line is attributed to a celtic war lord, who when asked for mercy from the romans, pointed out that the romans were not in the habit of showing mercy themselves, or how we say now payback is a bitch, or you never wanna find yourself on the bottom.It's the way of the world not to rely to heavily on the milk of human kindness.You may wanna read up on the genocidal wars conducted by various tribes, as well as the practice of slavery, and slave trading among the tribes.

[admiralsnackbar]

Edit: RJV beat me to it.

Genocides are touchy subjects. Despite the world media reminding them of their atrocities, Germans of the WW2 generation were often in denial about their role in the Holocaust (See the film: The Nasty Girl, based on a true story). Turks to this day won't acknowledge their role in the Armenian genocide despite mountains of proof and testimony. Argentines (most I've met, at any rate) are often very blase about their country's having exterminated it's native population. Catholic countries during the Inquisition didn't start formally apologizing until centuries after the fact. And then there's us. I think it has to be a kind of cognitive dissonance tied up with nationalism: if people own up to their collective atrocities, it impairs their ability to believe themselves to be good -- especially since most genocide is done with the permission/encouragement of the state.

Reminds me of that psych experiment where subjects were told to administer higher and higher voltages to an unseen "subject" whose protestations grew progressively more shrill and pained in order to test the role of authority in cruelty. Fewer students objected to juicing their peers than one would expect, and I'm sure none of those zappers bring that story up at Christmas.

[whottt]

Genocide of American aborigines, and 100s of years of slavery, conflict with America's childish myth as a country and people pristine, exceptional, and superior to all other countries and peoples.

Hey slick...in case you didn't notice, that was happening here before it was America...


It just so happened Europeans actually came over here and did it...they did it all over the world in fact.

And I'm not even talking about their attempted genocides of the 20th century and multiple world wars over material gain.

So you ahead and look up to Europe, it just points out to me you are either ignorant or self delusional.

The only reason they aren't at war right now, as they have always been, is because they have our military stuck up their ass.

Too bad you aren't an Algerian "citizen" of France...maybe then you'd understand they haven't really changed much at all, and what changes you think there are the result of our influence on them, not vice versa.



And that's exactly why they are the last people on Earth we need to be listening to on the Middle East.

That is their Middle East you see, they carved it up...just like they carved up Africa, Latin America, South Asia and most of the other fucked up parts of the globe.

[Winehole23]

You may wanna read up on the genocidal wars conducted by various tribes, as well as the practice of slavery, and slave trading among the tribes.Reading fail. You're so eager to pierce the noble savage myth, but the thing is, nobody brought it up, and none of the points made in the thread rely upon it.

Once again, you're tilting at windmills.

[whottt]

If you guys are so concerned about the plight of the Native American how come you shit on the wife of the only person of Native American ancestry to ever close to the Presidency...


That would be Todd Palin by the way.

[admiralsnackbar]

If you guys are so concerned about the plight of the Native American how come you shit on the wife of the only person of Native American ancestry to ever close to the Presidency...


That would be Todd Palin by the way.

Because he's a moron. Does that mean we should elect Bill Richardson to the white house, too?

[EmptyMan]

If you're not a self-loathing white person... and if you're not partially ashamed of America's ancestors and heritage. You're... not me.

Why would I feel ashamed of something I had no part in.

LOL at these silly self-loathing white people.


As part of the white man self-loathing payback, government has softened the indian into an embarrassing present-day form. Sucks for them.

[whottt]

There was no good intentions involving the Indian reservations and they are a great example of bad intentions gone as they planned.


Yeap...my motto is never trust the fancy chap promising you a thousand dollars and healthcare...er shiny beads, out of the goodness of his heart. If his heart was that good he wouldn't have so many shiny beads to give and he damn sure wouldn't talking about just outright taking them.


It's really never a good idea to trust anyone or anything implicitly...look at animals for instance, you show me an animal that is passive and trusting, and I will show you the first animal that is going to wind up on a plate, in a cage, or on a leash...

[EmptyMan]

st ronnie, you should lived long enough to see how as president, abetted by the neo-c*nts, you fucked up america, spreading hate and distrust of all things governmental (except the imperial military and its super-wealthy contractors and suppliers).

lol

Devil Horned Ronnie took a country that was founded on trust of authority and stole it away from its people!

[DarrinS]

If you're not a self-loathing white person... and if you're not partially ashamed of America's ancestors and heritage. You're... not me.


Isn't about time to haul your Milquetoast ass over to Starbucks and score another dime bag from Sheldon?

[spursncowboys]

why would i feel ashamed of something i had no part in.

Lol at these silly self-loathing white people.
+1

[MannyIsGod]

Yeap...my motto is never trust the fancy chap promising you a thousand dollars and healthcare...er shiny beads, out of the goodness of his heart. If his heart was that good he wouldn't have so many shiny beads to give and he damn sure wouldn't talking about just outright taking them.


It's really never a good idea to trust anyone or anything implicitly...look at animals for instance, you show me an animal that is passive and trusting, and I will show you the first animal that is going to wind up on a plate, in a cage, or on a leash...

:lmao @ you trying to compare health care reform to the way natives were fucked. Thats priceless.

[whottt]

Because he's a moron. Does that mean we should elect Bill Richardson to the white house, too?

What's wrong with Bill Richardson? He was one of the better candidates from either party. Seems like a genuinely sane and regular guy to me...which is proably why he didn't get the nomination.


And I haven't seen anything to indicate Todd Palin is a moron.

[whottt]

:lmao @ you trying to compare health care reform to the way natives were fucked. Thats priceless.


You think so? I don't...I look behind Obama, and I see a bunch of Europeans with shiny beads.

[spursncowboys]

:lmao @ you trying to compare health care reform to the way natives were fucked. Thats priceless.
He didn't compare it to healthcare. You going by his statement came to that conclusion.

[whottt]

If you're not a self-loathing white person... and if you're not partially ashamed of America's ancestors and heritage. You're... not me.

It stupid feel personally guilty for something you had no part of, it's stupid to feel shame for something similar.

None of us here were slave owners, none of us here were slaves, and to take that responsiblity or shame upon ourselves is frankly stupid.


Suppose we all feel guilty and or shame over it...


What now?

[nkdlunch]

I blame the fucking brits. They fucked the whole world in the last few centuries.

Noone else is to blame.

[admiralsnackbar]

And I haven't seen anything to indicate Todd Palin is a moron.

Maybe I'm superficial, but any grown man who accepts or self-applies the title "First Dude," doesn't seem too preoccupied with the life of the mind in my book.

[EmptyMan]

Maybe I'm superficial, but any grown man who accepts or self-applies the title "First Dude," doesn't seem too preoccupied with the life of the mind in my book.


^word, he is just a typical white person anyways.


Although, his Indian name is Cougar Meat.

[hope4dopes]

I blame the fucking brits. They fucked the whole world in the last few centuries.

Noone else is to blame.Lyndon La Rouche fan?

[nkdlunch]

Lyndon La Rouche fan?

no. I read history books

[hope4dopes]

many genocides are rarely spoken of: the armenians in the early 1900's, the genocide in guatemala, and of course the mass destruction of native american culture in the US.

of course, the US had something to do with the last 2 mentioned and turned their back to the first.Well of course it's americas fault.....well to some degree or another ..let me guess another self laothing white person right ........step just this way sir this crucifix is vacant climb on.

[hope4dopes]

no. I read history booksYeah I always felt they may have been the ones that were really behind the whole manifest destiny thing.

[hope4dopes]

He didn't compare it to healthcare. You going by his statement came to that conclusion.well in all fairness you can't fault his logic.

[spursncowboys]

How are the Brittish responsible?

[spursncowboys]

well in all fairness you can't fault his logic.
True. There definitely are parallels.

[admiralsnackbar]

How are the Brittish responsible?

Not that I would go anywhere near putting it all on them, but the Brits did create the Middle East as we know it today (insofar as borders are concerned) without much regard for logic.

[hope4dopes]

Not that I would go anywhere near putting it all on them, but the Brits did create the Middle East as we know it today (insofar as borders are concerned) without much regard for logic.

Somehow I don' think anyone could instill a regard for logic amongst the various numbskulls of that region.

[hope4dopes]

How are the Brittish responsible?
There was a tremendous amount of british money tied up in the development of the resources of this nation.They had alot to gain and alot to lose. I can't believe they didn't have political influence.

[admiralsnackbar]

Somehow I don' think anyone could instill a regard for logic amongst the various numbskulls of that region.

The various numbskulls of that region were once an empire as erudite and civilized as any European one. They just happened to start losing wars.

[Winehole23]

I am unaware of any direct connection of the British to the extermination/removal of NAs, but there is no doubt at all Anglo-Scottish investment was an important element of the development of the US's western frontier in siglo XIX.

[spursncowboys]

There was a tremendous amount of british money tied up in the development of the resources of this nation.They had alot to gain and alot to lose. I can't believe they didn't have political influence. I thought your comment was a general dismissal of brittish colonialization.

[Ya Vez]

In every major war, throughout the history of the United States, from the American Revolution through the Indian Wars, Native-Americans have fought with and against each other. This scenario prevailed during the Civil War. Some tribes fought for the South, such as the Cherokees while others assisted the North like the Seminoles.

[balli]

It stupid feel personally guilty for something you had no part of, it's stupid to feel shame for something similar.

None of us here were slave owners, none of us here were slaves, and to take that responsiblity or shame upon ourselves is frankly stupid.


Suppose we all feel guilty and or shame over it...


What now?
I don't feel responsible. And I only feel shame or guilt to the extent that I, and you, and just about every American who isn't a Native, is a direct beneficiary of an entire civilization's destruction. You're right, that's the way the world unfolded, we had nothing to do with it. That doesn't mean we can't look back with a measure of regret or sadness or shame about how it happened or how it's benefited us.

And it's just one part of America's history, to be judged in the context of others. It's something America can be ashamed of, it doesn't mean America is shameful.

[hope4dopes]

I thought your comment was a general dismissal of brittish colonialization.No it was more about their influences political and econmic especially after the civil war.

[hope4dopes]

In every major war, throughout the history of the United States, from the American Revolution through the Indian Wars, Native-Americans have fought with and against each other. This scenario prevailed during the Civil War. Some tribes fought for the South, such as the Cherokees while others assisted the North like the Seminoles. Yeah let's hear it for the cherokee mounted rifles.

[Wild Cobra]

Why is the native american genocide almost never mentioned or discussed?
I'm not even going to read this thread, but leave this one remark. It's a bad point in our history. Family seldom talks anout the bad things within. As American's, we are one big family. No use dwelling in the past. To do so, is to not want to be a part of the family, and to tha, I say goodbye. Move elsewhere.

[rjv]

Edit: RJV beat me to it.

Genocides are touchy subjects. Despite the world media reminding them of their atrocities, Germans of the WW2 generation were often in denial about their role in the Holocaust (See the film: The Nasty Girl, based on a true story). Turks to this day won't acknowledge their role in the Armenian genocide despite mountains of proof and testimony. Argentines (most I've met, at any rate) are often very blase about their country's having exterminated it's native population. Catholic countries during the Inquisition didn't start formally apologizing until centuries after the fact. And then there's us. I think it has to be a kind of cognitive dissonance tied up with nationalism: if people own up to their collective atrocities, it impairs their ability to believe themselves to be good -- especially since most genocide is done with the permission/encouragement of the state.

Reminds me of that psych experiment where subjects were told to administer higher and higher voltages to an unseen "subject" whose protestations grew progressively more shrill and pained in order to test the role of authority in cruelty. Fewer students objected to juicing their peers than one would expect, and I'm sure none of those zappers bring that story up at Christmas.

spot on post!

[rjv]

Well of course it's americas fault.....well to some degree or another ..let me guess another self laothing white person right ........step just this way sir this crucifix is vacant climb on.


i'm not white.

[admiralsnackbar]

I'm not even going to read this thread, but leave this one remark. It's a bad point in our history. Family seldom talks anout the bad things within. As American's, we are one big family. No use dwelling in the past. To do so, is to not want to be a part of the family, and to tha, I say goodbye. Move elsewhere.

"Or we'll move you. Forcibly. Until we need that land. Then we'll move you forcibly. Again."

[hope4dopes]

i'm not white.please explain what the u.s. was supposed to do to stop the armenian genocide.

[admiralsnackbar]

please explain what the u.s. was supposed to do to stop the armenian genocide.

He didn't say we had any involvement with Turkey (although our embassador was a vocal witness, much to the Turks chagrin). We were involved in Guatemala and within our own borders.

[rjv]

please explain what the u.s. was supposed to do to stop the armenian genocide.


i said turned their back on it. no US president has ever acknowledged the armenian holocaust (including obama).

guatemala is a different story. there we had direct responibility.

[spursncowboys]

In every major war, throughout the history of the United States, from the American Revolution through the Indian Wars, Native-Americans have fought with and against each other. This scenario prevailed during the Civil War. Some tribes fought for the South, such as the Cherokees while others assisted the North like the Seminoles.

I love how their culture treats veterans. Here is a great website about how a tribe treats a fallen Marine.
http://www.bentbay.dk/Indian_war.htm
There are others ones on how they greet a military person coming back from a war.

[Homeland Security]

What we can learn from the genocide of Native Americans is that genocide is very effective if you can get away with it.

[hope4dopes]

Both Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry encouraged intermarriage among the tribes Patrick Henry even suggested tax incentives.At the time of the trail of tears one of two leading chiefs of the nation was a half blood,and he was adament about the Cherokee using everything short of violence to resist the goverment.
Intermarriage has done more, than bullets to change the face of America. recent DNA testing found that those who call themselves African Americans had like 10% Indian DNA.When I was growing up all the whites I knew had indian blood, and I figured all whites in America had Indian ancestors.
the number of Indians identified by the census has risen by more than 1000% since 1900. The number rose not because of birth rates but because people coming forward claiming tribal memebership though not pure blood.
If the American people were trying to commit genocide, they sure were going about it the wrong way by marrying themselves and their blood to indains.

[EmptyMan]

The Mafia owes me reparations for driving my great grandparents out of Sicily.

Those meatball loving mf'ers will pay. And all you non self-loathing crackers who continue to pump money into Scarface and The Godfather, you are just as responsible. The blood is on your hands.

[hope4dopes]

The Mafia owes me reparations for driving my great grandparents out of Sicily.

Those meatball loving mf'ers will pay. And all you non self-loathing crackers who continue to pump money into Scarface and The Godfather, you are just as responsible. The blood is on your hands. mea culpa piasan.

[whottt]

Maybe I'm superficial, but any grown man who accepts or self-applies the title "First Dude," doesn't seem too preoccupied with the life of the mind in my book.

Maybe he's just got a sense of humor, and couldn't care less?

[whottt]

Btw, in all fairness to balli...they indoctrinate kids to be the way he is these days in the educational system. He didn't arrrive at that conclusion on his own...it's been hammered into his head probably since he began grade school, and there is an entire generation of kids like him.

I mean you go into any college these days and what you get is an anti-christian blame whitey indoctrination...there's a reason every kid on this forum sounds exactly alike, they are parroting their college professors and teachers, difference being their college professors are a bunch of self absorbed baby boomers trying to sound intelligent and enlightened who in actuallity don't give a shit beyond appearances, while these kids are actually living the role.

It's not your fault balli, you didn't do it, and accepting the blame and guilt for it does no one any good, doesn't do the world any good either. Don't ever accept blame and take on guilt for something you didn't do...ever.

You taking the blame for slavery doesn't take slavery away..

[MiamiHeat]

Andrew Jackson was a hero.

The Native Americans had to go.

Think of it this way : If the United States didn't move the Indians out, then the USA would have been weaker as a result. Economic growth would have been greatly handicapped, population growth would have slowed, and it would have left the USA open to foreign invasion of a country that IS willing to take over all of the land.


It had to happen. There's really no reason to keep talking about it. It wasn't state mandated genocide like the Nazi's Final Solution.

[MiamiHeat]

also..

I respect and admire the Native American peoples. Their culture is admirable. Wise people, one with the earth, they are not wasteful... for the most part, peaceful and harmonious.

In a perfect world, would have been great to live like that.

Until a European nation decided to come invade our pussy tree hugging asses while we sit around a campfire, and shoot us all and take over all of our land.

So yeah, it had to happen.

[Winehole23]

In a perfect world, would have been great to live like that.

Until a European nation decided to come invade our pussy tree hugging asses while we sit around a campfire, and shoot us all and take over all of our land.Clearly, we had no alternative to perishing at the hands of wily Old World powers, should we have failed somehow to exterminate the brutes.


The aboriginal inhabitants were in the way. So much the worse for them.

[Winehole23]

jc7BuEf706A

[Winehole23]

rj_YPJvia8A

[admiralsnackbar]

Maybe he's just got a sense of humor, and couldn't care less?

Maybe his sense of humor is lacking.

[MiamiHeat]

Clearly, we had no alternative to perishing at the hands of wily Old World powers, should we have failed somehow to exterminate the brutes.

so tell us, what would you have proposed?

[Winehole23]

so tell us, what would you have proposed?I'm not proposing anything. I just think its a mistake to justify what we did by suggesting the only alternative was the end of the USA.

[MannyIsGod]

He didn't compare it to healthcare. You going by his statement came to that conclusion.


You think so? I don't...I look behind Obama, and I see a bunch of Europeans with shiny beads.


:lol He admired he did before you even posted. Nice going.

[whottt]

I wasn't comparing it to healthcare reform, I was comparing it to free government provided healthcare, that shiny bead over there in Europe gleaming so brightly.

I see it get referenced all the time by proponents on this forum.

And also taking someting from someone else and giving it to someone else, for support, which is what that tax rebate proposal was. Which is what many forms of socialism are. It's either something that is wrong, or something it is ok to do.


Which is it? Right or wrong? It's not just right or wrong depending on who it is done too...

[whottt]

Anyway with regards to guilt, I do not own any land, I did not benefit from that seizure, I was not born when it happened. I had absolutely no control over it. And it was not done to anyone I have ever met or will meet.

If your father fucked my father over...You didn't do it, it wasn't done to me, and that is a dysfunctional mindset.

If I take on that issue, and say to you, well, your dad fucked my dad over so...you are beholden to me. No, you usually aren't and it is me that is being the shit starter. It is me attributing something that you did not do to you.

It an interpersonal relationship, these would called manipulation and control tactics. And that's exactly what they are in any other sort of relationship just about all of the time.


IF you show me directly benefitting from that, I will change my opinion, however I own no land that belonged to Native Americans. I do not have that deed, I did not benefit and the indirect benefits I have are no greater than the ones offered the Native Americans, then and now.

If my father had been a mass murderer, I also would not be guilty of his crimes. I may feel remorseful for it, however I would not take that responsibility upon myself, and feel obligated to those it was done to. I damn sure wouldn't be willing to serve his jail sentence and most likely neither would you in a similar position. Just being honest.

You want to talk to me about Iraq and Afhganistan, what has gone on there, what is going on there...that I feel responsible for, as that is happening in my lifetime, and I genuinely want to leave those countries in better condition that they were in, before we got there not to mention what was done after we went in. And when they tell us to leave, via a vote, I fully support any and all automatic pullouts.




Finally the Native Americans are not the angelic pure victims they are portrayed as being, and that is the main problem I have with the world, because there is no blameless culture, there are no blameless people. If you want to go back in history and find something a group of people did to another...I can do that with any culture. Easily. And it does not make the people today accountable for it.

If there is a blameless segment of humanity, it has nothing to do with ethnicity and race and if anything has to do with gender. Because men have fucked women over, and treated them inequally pretty much in every instance I can find other than literally a handful of examples. However, I am still not the one that did it.

We're either moving on, or we're stuck in the same spot. The reality is, we really are stuck in the same spot, I personally think we need to keep moving on.

And if we are going to stay stuck, then let's at least be accurate about it.


Let's admit that:

#1. Not everything done was totally intentional, especially with regards to disease.

#2. The Native Americans had wars and slavery and assimilation, and they in many cases had an agenda to fuck each other over royally and sought favor with the Europeans for just that reason.

#3. They were genuinely enamored with the advances offered by Europe.

#4. They attemped to play the white man against himself as well, and some of them did shit like side with the British in certain conflicts. Sucks to be them for siding with the loser...

Especially when the loser turns around and deeds your land to the people they just lost too.


#5. It wasn't just the Europeans and Americans that fucked them over...the Mexican government fucked them over too,

Just ask Geronimo.


#6. There were Native American cultures that wanted to be assimilated and integrated, the same way there have been immigrants that wanted that. Those people wound up a lot better than those that didn't and not because of some agenda of revenge. They accurately saw the evolution of the world and went along with it instead of fighting it, and thus did not get trampled.


#7. There was and is no collective Native American people then. Aside from their skin and hair color, they were totally diverse and the important point about that is that they weren't all fucked over.






I don't see what purpose is served by living in the past and feeling either victimized by or responsible for, events that did not actually happen to you. Other than attepting to justify a belief, or a misguided attempt to be a good person that actually makes you merely a neurotic one.

I call this appropriated victimhood regardless of whether you chose the victim or perpetrator role. That shit only has direct meaning upon you now, if you choose for it too.


See, a mere a hundred ago, my family walked in around in funky shorts eating schnitzel...it has exactly jack shit relevance to me now. I am fully assimilated, and never had a choice in the matter, it was done before I was born, and it does me no good to be pissed off and blame anyone for it...and it's just not that fucking big of a deal. If I feel I must return to the ways of eating schnitzel and wearing funky shorts, I can certainly do so at any point I choose with just a trip the store. And for that, I am greatful. Anyone seeking a return to the nomadic lifestyle of living off the land and sitting campfires...you are free to do that now as well. Plenty of people actually live that way, here, now.

As far as being vigilant against this sort of thing happening again in the exact same way, it won't happen again, here, in the same way, as the world is a different place now than it was then. It was evolving and that was part of it's evolution. I am not saying we won't keep fucking each other over, it's just not going to happen the same way it did in the colonial era.

[101A]

Both Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry encouraged intermarriage among the tribes Patrick Henry even suggested tax incentives.At the time of the trail of tears one of two leading chiefs of the nation was a half blood,and he was adament about the Cherokee using everything short of violence to resist the goverment.
Intermarriage has done more, than bullets to change the face of America. recent DNA testing found that those who call themselves African Americans had like 10% Indian DNA.When I was growing up all the whites I knew had indian blood, and I figured all whites in America had Indian ancestors.
the number of Indians identified by the census has risen by more than 1000% since 1900. The number rose not because of birth rates but because people coming forward claiming tribal memebership though not pure blood.
If the American people were trying to commit genocide, they sure were going about it the wrong way by marrying themselves and their blood to indains.

1/32 Cherokee present and accounted for!

[rjv]

Andrew Jackson was a hero.

The Native Americans had to go.

Think of it this way : If the United States didn't move the Indians out, then the USA would have been weaker as a result. Economic growth would have been greatly handicapped, population growth would have slowed, and it would have left the USA open to foreign invasion of a country that IS willing to take over all of the land.


It had to happen. There's really no reason to keep talking about it. It wasn't state mandated genocide like the Nazi's Final Solution.

is that you nicolo ?

[rjv]

lol at people who are responding as if this was a person to person issue or seem to think they are a nation or government.