fort hood

[clambake]

NBC: 7 dead, 12 injured in Fort Hood shooting
SWAT teams battle at least one gunman on the military base

Video


Seven dead, gunmen still at large at Ft. Hood
Nov. 5: Seven people have been reported dead and 12 injured at the Army's Fort Hood in Texas. Two gunmen are reported to still be at large. NBC’s Jim Miklaszewski reports.
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At least seven people are dead and 12 wounded in a shooting at Fort Hood in Texas, the base's public affairs office told NBC News on Thursday.

The official would not give his name nor additional details. It was unknown whether victims are soldiers or civilians. One gunman was reportedly in custody and another was on the loose, NBC News said. A third shooter may be involved, according to NBC News affiliate KCEN, which said the person had opened fire on the SWAT team at the base.

KCEN reported that a policeman was among those shot.

Story continues below ↓
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KCEN in Waco reported that the second suspect may be holed up in a building on the post.

Greg Schannep, an aide to U.S. Rep. John Carter, told the Austin American-Statesman that he was on the Army post to attend a graduation service. He said that as he neared the entrance of a building where the service was being held, a soldier with blood on his uniform ran past him and said a man was shooting.

Schannep told the newspaper that the shootings appeared to have occurred in a complex near a theater where the service was scheduled. He was with the injured soldier, who he said appeared to have been struck in the shoulder but did not have life-threatening injuries.

According to unconfirmed reports, one of the shooters was being surrounded by police in the 42006 building on Fort Hood. That source told KCEN the shooter has a high-powered rifle.

The base was reportedly on lockdown. The Killeen Independent School District said all Fort Hood schools are on lockdown.

Temple ISD is on a "soft" lockdown. Parents will be able to pick their children up at the normal times, though they may experience delays.

FBI agents were reportedly on the way to the post.

Fort Hood is adjacent to Killeen, and 60 miles northeast of Austin. The sprawling complex is home to at least 4,929 active duty officers and 45,414 enlisted. Civilian employees total nearly 9,000.



Army spokesman Lt. Col. Lee M. Packnett said he was unaware if security measures were put in place at other military bases.

“At this point I do not know,” Packnett said.

President Barack Obama was briefed on the shootings, according to spokesman Robert Gibbs.

Fort Hood has seen other violence in recent years. In September 2008, a 21-year-old 1st Cavalry Division soldier shot his lieutenant to death and then killed himself. Spc. Jody Michael Wirawan of Eagle River, Alaska. shot himself to death after shooting 1st Lt. Robert Bartlett Fletcher, 24, of Jensen Beach, Fla. to death.

This breaking news story will be updated with more details.

[clambake]

sorry about that.

the link is missing.

[coyotes_geek]

:(

[admiralsnackbar]

Jesus.

[spursncowboys]

Sucks. I was in that post a year ago and they have alot of problems. Not just the military community. The cities around their have alot of issues for their size.

[clambake]

and they mentioned a high rate of suicide in the past few years.

they didn't show numbers, though.

[DarrinS]

Two shooters -- sounds planned and not just someone "losing it".

[DarrinS]

Do they train foreign soldiers at Ft. Hood like they do at Lackland?

[doobs]

Crazy. Sad.

OK, let the spin begin.

[clambake]

Do they train foreign soldiers at Ft. Hood like they do at Lackland?

why don't you go ahead and tell us whats on your mind, darrins?

[Crookshanks]

UPDATE: 12 dead, 31 wounded
Among the dead is one police officer and the shooter. Two more in custody. All 3 were soldiers - no idea yet what the motive was.

[boutons_deux]

Lt. Gen. Robert W. Cone is speaking to the media outside the base. He confirms that 12 people have been killed and 31 wounded. He also said that the shootings took place at a readiness facility, which is where soldiers go before deploying overseas. Gen. Cone said that the gunmen were Fort Hood soldiers and used handguns.

-- nytimes

[Winehole23]

why don't you go ahead and tell us whats on your mind, darrins?His imagination is apparently making political hay out of this, even before the facts come out.

[boutons_deux]

Latest from Lou Dobbs:

The "Fort Hood soldier-shooters" were really illegal aliens. :)

Latest from WC:

The "Fort Hood soldier-shooters" were really liberals. :)

[Crookshanks]

Shooter was Major Malik Nadal Hasan - sounds like an arab name doesn't it? What this means - we'll just have to wait and see.

[Winehole23]

NPR is mentioning three shooters. Got any info on the other two, Crookshanks?

[baseline bum]

Sucks that it's only MPs normally armed on bases (according to CNN). You never think of a military base as being somewhere people aren't armed well enough.

[Crookshanks]

NPR is mentioning three shooters. Got any info on the other two, Crookshanks?
They are saying Hasan was the only shooter, but the other two are suspects. They haven't released their names. Shooter had two handguns.

They said it was unusual to have firearms on the base, because they're kept locked up. So maybe that's where the other two come into play.

[Crookshanks]

I just talked to my son, who is active duty Air Force. He's here in Texas for a couple of days. He talked to his supervisor and was told all bases are now on high alert. He also said this will probably mean more psychological evaluations for everyone.

[Winehole23]

Gov. Perry seems to be about 20 minutes hour behind on his news -- 9 dead, three shooters he says. Live on Fox right now.

[Winehole23]

Shep Smith won't give the shooter's name until the Pentagon confirms it. Apparently. it was disclosed by "unnamed sources."

[Winehole23]

Ft. Hood presser at 5:30 CST.

[Winehole23]

Major Hasan was an Army psychiatrist.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/05/national/main5540862.shtml

[DarrinS]

why don't you go ahead and tell us whats on your mind, darrins?

"Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan"


Hmmmm. Fuck you.

[Nbadan]

Status: Lockdown...


The FBI were on the way to the scene to the base, which was in a state of "lockdown" tonight with no vehicles allowed in or out of the sprawling 340 square mile military installation. The shootings took place about a half hour before a scheduled graduation event involving universities located on the base, 50 miles south of Waco.

The motive of the shooters was not immediately known

Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/05/fort-hood-texas-shooting)

[spursncowboys]

sucks that it's only mps normally armed on bases (according to cnn). You never think of a military base as being somewhere people aren't armed well enough.
+1

[hope4dopes]

wow a shrink that goes crazy ......who'd a guessed.

[Stringer_Bell]

They said it was unusual to have firearms on the base, because they're kept locked up. So maybe that's where the other two come into play.

Interesting. That might explain why only handguns were used. Still, 40+ armed forces personnel is a HUGE number to hit with just handguns.

[Nbadan]

Obama's remarks

WGPyY8Kp_e8

[Nbadan]

Here is what we know..

The Other two suspected shooters have been released.
Hasan was a psychologist...completed his internship in 2007
Hasan was scheduled to go back to Iraq..

...speculation centers whether he cracked about being sent back...

[Nbadan]

MSNBC reporting 2 soldiers have been released but a third has been taken into custody. The third was picked up very recently and is being questioned.

[Nbadan]

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/091105-hassan.vsmall.jpg

[xeromass]

wild speculation...

Because there are more possible suspects...maybe whole thing started as an argument and one of the involved went postal.

[Nbadan]

WASHINGTON — Military officials say the suspected shooter at Fort Hood was a psychiatrist at Walter Reed Army Medical Center for six years before being transferred to the Texas base in July.

The officials had access to Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's military record. They said he received a poor performance evaluation while at Walter Reed.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because military records are confidential.

The Virginia-born soldier was single with no children. He was 39 years old.

He is a graduate of Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. At Walter Reed, he did his internship, residency and a fellowship.


Huff (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/05/malik-nadal-hasan-fort-ho_n_347620.html&cp)

[Crookshanks]

Interesting. That might explain why only handguns were used. Still, 40+ armed forces personnel is a HUGE number to hit with just handguns.
I don't know much about guns - how many bullets are in a clip for a semi-automatic handgun. A man near the scene said he heard 3 or 4 volleys with 8 to 12 shots in each volley.

A 12th person has died at the hospital.

[Shastafarian]

"Maj. Malik Nadal Hasan"


Hmmmm. Fuck you.


The Virginia-born soldier was single with no children. He was 39 years old.
Fuck you?

[Nbadan]

Fuck Us?

[Nbadan]

...waiting for Hannity/Limbaugh to turn this against Muslim-Americans tomorrow....

[spursncowboys]

...waiting for Hannity/Limbaugh to turn this against Muslim-Americans tomorrow....
Waiting for arianna huff to blame bush.

[Shastafarian]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/18/70384439_ba1fd5b9de.jpg

[coyotes_geek]

...waiting for Hannity/Limbaugh to turn this against Muslim-Americans tomorrow....


Waiting for arianna huff to blame bush.

For crying out loud, soldiers who willingly volunteered to risk their lives for us just got murdered in cold blood. Is it really too much to ask that we wait a little longer than 5 hours before taking this story and playing the partisan bickering bullshit game?

[hope4dopes]

For crying out loud, soldiers who willingly volunteered to risk their lives for us just got murdered in cold blood. Is it really too much to ask that we wait a little longer than 5 hours before taking this story and playing the partisan bickering bullshit game?Well said.

[spursncowboys]

For crying out loud, soldiers who willingly volunteered to risk their lives for us just got murdered in cold blood. Is it really too much to ask that we wait a little longer than 5 hours before taking this story and playing the partisan bickering bullshit game?
No. Discussions should not be off limits, regardless.

[Nbadan]

Yeah....besides, you know it's gonna happen...

...same shit went on after Hurricane Katrina...

[Nbadan]

...not to say it's right or wrong....just that some loony is gonna blame Muslim-Americans..maybe a mosque or innocent people get hurt..just cause the guy's name is Husan and he's Muslim-American...otherwise? What else do they got? personal problems? The stress of the Iraq war? being redeployed to a unpopular war?

[Nbadan]

The BBC is reporting that Hasan is still alive..


A US army major has opened fire on fellow soldiers at the Fort Hood military base in Texas, with death toll now standing at 12, with 31 injured.

Base commander Lt Gen Bob Cone has now said that the gunman was not killed, as earlier stated, but is in custody.

Two other suspects were questioned, but the army now says only one gunman was involved in the incident.

Lt Gen Cone said the motive for the shooting was not known. One of the dead was a policeman, others were soldiers.

President Barack Obama described it as "a horrific outburst of violence".

The gunman has been named Major Nidal Malik Hasan, and he is now said to be wounded, but in a stable condition in custody

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8345713.stm)

[Nbadan]

Hey...they called the collapse of WTC7 before it happened....so Hasan is alive,,,

[Nbadan]

AP sources: Authorities had concerns about suspect
By LARA JAKES
Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON — Federal law enforcement officials say the suspected Fort Hood, Texas, shooter had come to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats.

The officials say the postings appeared to have been made by Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who was killed during the shooting incident that left least 11 others dead and 31 wounded. The officials say they are still trying to confirm that he was the author. They say an official investigation was not opened.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the case.

One of the Web postings that authorities reviewed is a blog that equates suicide bombers with a soldier throwing himself on a grenade to save the lives of his comrades.

"To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause," said the Internet posting. "Scholars have paralled (sic) this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers."

statesman (http://www.statesman.com/news/content/gen/ap/US_Fort_Hood_Shooting_Suspect.html)

[jack sommerset]

Another sad horrific example of the melting pot in the USA.

[Shastafarian]

Another sad horrific example of the melting pot in the USA.

Explain this to all of us please.

[ElNono]

Shooter was Major Malik Nadal Hasan - sounds like an arab name doesn't it? What this means - we'll just have to wait and see.

Means like he has an arab name? Anything else it should mean?

[jack sommerset]

A man joins the military to protect our country from others we think are enimies. Thats the oath in a nutshell. He decides he doesn't agree with our military policies and kills as many people as he can in our country. That my friend is my opinion. Give us yours. Please take in account he is a Muslim and consider who he had to fight if he went to either Iraq or Afghanistan.

[Nbadan]

The guy goes to Iraq...hears some fucked up shit and loses it rather than be redeployed to that hell-hole...

[jack sommerset]

The guy goes to Iraq...hears some fucked up shit and loses it rather than be redeployed to that hell-hole...

Lets give him a medal.....:lol

[elbamba]

For crying out loud, soldiers who willingly volunteered to risk their lives for us just got murdered in cold blood. Is it really too much to ask that we wait a little longer than 5 hours before taking this story and playing the partisan bickering bullshit game?

well said. This is still the time for mourning. Not the time for politics. I am happy to report that the few friends that I know at Ft. Hood were not around the incident and were not harmed. I hope anyone else on here who has friends and family there find them to be safe.

[Shastafarian]

A man joins the military to protect our country from others we think are enimies.Enimies, yes.

Thats the oath in a nutshell. He decides he doesn't agree with our military policies and kills as many people as he can in our country. You already know why he did this? Not sure how that's possible given he's either dead or unconscious (depending on which report you believe).

That my friend is my opinion.Yet you didn't expound on the "melting pot" quip.

Give us yours. Please take in account he is a Muslim and consider who he had to fight if he went to either Iraq or Afghanistan.
You think all the muslims know each other or something? Do christians go nuts when they have to fight other christians in war?

[jack sommerset]

Dumbass look up what a melting pot is.

The military does not give opinions. They do what the Government wants. Don't join up if you don't agree with that. If indeed this guy did not want to fight fellow muslims he should have never joined the USA military. Quit asking questions douchebag. Give us your opinion. We will know more in days to come. I gave mine. You give yours.

[Shastafarian]

Dumbass look up what a melting pot is.So basically you hate anyone that isn't white and christian? Does that include roman catholics? I guess if you were truly against the Melting Pot you'd hate everyone who wasn't Native American. But how dare they be on our land before we got here.


The military does not give opinions. They do what the Government wants. Don't join up if you don't agree with that. If indeed this guy did not want to fight fellow muslims he should have never joined the USA military.Something we don't know. But let's assume it anyways right? I'll go ahead and assume he was also gay. Fuck that fag!

Quit asking questions douchebag.:lol

Give us your opinion. We will know more in days to come. I gave mine. You give yours.My opinion on what? Good people dying? It's horrible and I wish these things wouldn't happen. As far as my opinion on the assailant, well I think I'll wait for more information instead of...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/18/70384439_ba1fd5b9de.jpg

[jack sommerset]

You can't give us a take. Little question marks on everything you say????????????????????????????????

Idiot troll.

[Shastafarian]

You can't give us a take.Take on what? His name? Looks like a name common to the islamic religion. That's about as much as we know. Unless you have ESP?!?!?!?


Little question marks on everything you say???????????????????????????????? It's what people do who want to learn. Obviously you don't believe in that school of thought.


Idiot troll.

Still haven't explained the Melting Pot comment. Can't say I'm surprised.

[spursncowboys]

well said. This is still the time for mourning. Not the time for politics. I am happy to report that the few friends that I know at Ft. Hood were not around the incident and were not harmed. I hope anyone else on here who has friends and family there find them to be safe.
+1. Waiting for the list.

[spursncowboys]

It is very weird how many people I met who thought they could join and avoid war. Or how they were surprised at going to a unit deploying.

[jack sommerset]

Thank goodness the guy is alive. Obama can call another beer summit to figure out what the beef was all about!!!!

[clambake]

Thank goodness the guy is alive. Obama can call another beer summit to figure out what the beef was all about!!!!

umm jack, if he didn't want to go....wouldn't that mean he's blaming obama for making him deploy?

[jack sommerset]

umm jack, if he didn't want to go....wouldn't that mean he's blaming obama for making him deploy?

Hmmm, interesting. I did not think of that. Maybe.

I'm thinking more the USA military takes anyone.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

We should invade Iran for this.


--neoconfan

[jack sommerset]

Does anyone think this muslim will come out with a statement thats says he is a nutjob and had a bad day? I don't. Thus the melting pot will continue and many more innocent lives will be sacarficed. It's a privelage to be American not a giving. "Don't ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"

[whottt]

It's Obama's fault.

[jack sommerset]

It's Obama's fault.

people like obama

[Winehole23]

Second incident reported.

A second incident took place at a theater on the base, Banks said. One official who would not give his name said that a graduation had been scheduled for 2 p.m. at the theater.http://www.latimes.com/news/la-na-fort-hood-shootings6-2009nov06,0,4341651.story

[Winehole23]

Suspect arrested at golf course.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/05/texas.fort.hood.witnesses/

[Winehole23]

The gunman, first said to have been killed, was wounded but alive and in stable condition under military guard, said Lt. Gen. Bob Cone at Fort Hood. "I would say his death is not imminent," Cone said. Col. Ben Danner said the suspect was shot at least four times.http://www.courant.com/news/breaking/hc-fort-hood-shooting-connecticut-dad,0,3479690.story

[Marcus Bryant]

Does anyone think this muslim will come out with a statement thats says he is a nutjob and had a bad day? I don't. Thus the melting pot will continue and many more innocent lives will be sacarficed. It's a privelage to be American not a giving. "Don't ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"

So who qualifies for membership in the pure "pot"?

Further, it's amusing you reference President Kennedy, as 'his kind' were once considered to be inimical to the national interest once upon a time.

God Damn.

[Winehole23]

The Council on American-Islamic Relations condemned the shootings and urged the nation to remain calm as Americans reacted to the tragic events.

"No political or religious ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence. The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted our nation's all-volunteer army that includes thousands of Muslims in all services,” said CAIR National Executive Director Nihad Awad . “We again offer our thoughts and prayers for the victims and sincere condolences for the families of those killed or injured.” http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/05/national/main5540862.shtml

[Winehole23]

Fort Hood tragedy: A Muslim’s perspective (http://www.wacotrib.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/communities/breakingnews/entries/2009/11/05/fort_hood_tragedy_a_muslims_pe.html)

By Wendy Gragg (http://www.wacotrib.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/communities/breakingnews/entries/2009/11/05/fort_hood_tragedy_a_muslims_pe.html#postcomment) | Thursday, November 5, 2009, 06:10 PM




Al Siddiq, president of the Islamic Center of Waco, followed the unfolding news of the Fort Hood tragedy anxiously, as a veteran of the U.S. Army himself, as a friend of some Muslim soldiers currently stationed at the Central Texas post and as a Muslim who has become wary of backlash.


Siddiq said the Muslim Islamic community is very concerned that the shooter on Fort Hood was a Muslim because Muslims tend to get all thrown into the same category. Since 9/11, Siddiq said, when an individual Muslim acts stupid, it affects the entire Islamic community. The concern is backlash against other Muslims, he said.


“We’ve been very fortunate in Waco,” Siddiq said. “But there’s always a backlash.” Siddiq said he had a great experience in the U.S. Army, both in Korea and stationed at Fort Campbell.


“That’s what hurts me the most,” he said. “The Army has accommodated Muslims. Not any other Army can offer what the U.S. Army offers.”


Siddiq said what he has heard is that the Fort Hood shooter may be a convert to Islam. He said he thinks the problem some converts have is not based on the Islam religion, but on the resentment toward the U.S. government that they bring to their faith.

[Marcus Bryant]

Siddiq said the Muslim Islamic community is very concerned that the shooter on Fort Hood was a Muslim because Muslims tend to get all thrown into the same category.

Since when? Or was that post #2?

[jack sommerset]

So who qualifies for membership in the pure "pot"?

Further, it's amusing you reference President Kennedy, as 'his kind' were once considered to be inimical to the national interest once upon a time.

God Damn.

This guy qualifies for membership in the pure "pot" and people like him.

This guy was a "major" in our military. He told people he did not believe in the war and did not want to be apart of it but here he is, a "major" in our military that said he did not believe in the war. We saw tonight what his reply was.

Think what you want of Kennedy but those words mean so much to many Americans. Myself included. The murderer cleary did not think of those words before he enlisted.

[Winehole23]

Crookshanks was the first to report the name, but refrained from judging. DarrinS highlighted it @#24, and jacksommerset spelled it out for us in #52.

[Winehole23]

For this forum, the reaction has been pretty restrained IMO. That'll change, of course.

[Marcus Bryant]

This guy qualifies for membership in the pure "pot" and people like him.

This guy was a "major" in our military.

Yes, that's a rank.




He told people he did not believe in the war and did not want to be apart of it but here he is, a "major" in our military that said he did not believe in the war. We saw tonight what his reply was.


Who could ever imagine someone in the military of these United States not being 110% fully gung-ho for war? That is what this nation exists for, to put swarthy foreigners in their place.




Think what you want of Kennedy but those words mean so much to many Americans. Myself included. The murderer cleary did not think of those words before he enlisted.

No. The issue is what individuals like yourself who seek to circumscribe this land arbitrarily believe. Once upon a time Catholics could not be considered good Americans because they obviously took their orders from the Pope instead of Christ (King James Version). Now one of their ilk is invoked to exclude the latest group.


RssIN3ustUw

[clambake]

lol @ the melting pot.

[Winehole23]

Thing is, who gets melted?

[jack sommerset]

Yes, that's a rank.




Who could ever imagine someone in the military of these United States not being 110% fully gung-ho for war? That is what this nation exists for, to put swarthy foreigners in their place.




No. The issue is what individuals like yourself who seek to circumscribe this land arbitrarily believe. Once upon a time Catholics could not be considered good Americans because they obviously took their orders from the Pope instead of Christ (King James Version). Now one of their ilk is invoked to exclude the latest group.


RssIN3ustUw

I'm an American first and last. Religion has little effect on my personal beliefs. It's obvious it does to others. I can imagine a muslim joining our military only to kill innocent American soldiers in America living a day to day life. It is front and center tonight. Our country lets anyone in. Our country comes first and for whatever reasons people that call themselves Americans could careless.

[Shastafarian]

Thing is, who gets melted?

The brown people?

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm an American first and last. Religion has little effect on my personal beliefs. It's obvious it does to others. I can imagine a muslim joining our military only to kill innocent American soldiers in America living a day to day life. It is front and center tonight. Our country lets anyone in. Our country comes first and for whatever reasons people that call themselves Americans could careless.

[Shastafarian]

I'm an American first and last. Religion has little effect on my personal beliefs. It's obvious it does to others.

I can imagine a muslim joining our military only to kill innocent American soldiers in America living a day to day life.
Religion has little effect on my personal beliefs

It is front and center tonight. Our country lets anyone in.He was born in this country.

Our country comes first and for whatever reasons people that call themselves Americans could careless.How many generations has your family been "American"?

[Marcus Bryant]

Profound. If you smoke crack rock.

[Shastafarian]

Profound. If you smoke crack rock.

I enjoyed his little mini-meltdown.

I wonder if he still believes there were real underage Salvadorian prostitutes.

[Marcus Bryant]

Would it really matter?

[Shastafarian]

Would it really matter?

Nope. Just curiosity. The fact that he ever thought they were real people speaks for itself.

[jack sommerset]

I see the questions bother you so maybe I will continue with them. Care to answer my question about how many generations your family has been here?

I can see giving your opinion bothers you.:lol I'm bored with you tonight. Looks like 9 generations of Sommersets. Night dumbass.

[Marcus Bryant]

Three generations of imbeciles are enough.

[Shastafarian]

I can see giving your opinion bothers you.:lol I'm bored with you tonight. Looks like 9 generations of Sommersets. Night dumbass.

I gave my opinion. If you have trouble reading that's your problem. 9 generations :lol So your great great great great great great grandparents settled here? Where were they from?

[Shastafarian]

Jack's lucky. His family has been here since the country's inception. He doesn't have to worry about any of his relatives being dirty immigrants.

[spursncowboys]

Jack's lucky. His family has been here since the country's inception. He doesn't have to worry about any of his relatives being dirty immigrants.

What about you? How many generations? Why was it relevant?

[DarrinS]

So, this has nothing to do with the man's conversion to Islam?

[101A]

This was the act of a single individual, influenced by his association with a group that I, personally have a long-standing mistrust and bias against, I am said to say.

I'm afraid I will probably be even less likely to trust psychiatrists after this.

[DarrinS]

this was the act of a single individual, influenced by his association with a group that i, personally have a long-standing mistrust and bias against, i am said to say.

I'm afraid i will probably be even less likely to trust psychiatrists after this.

lol

[DarrinS]

There's some justice.

Hasan is paralyzed, being shot twice by a female security guard.

[DarrinS]

Ahh, the religion of peace.

Ft. Hood suspect reportedly shouted `Allahu Akbar' (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting)

[ElNono]

What jack completely forgets is that this guy actually joined the Army before we were at war with radical muslims. He actually even hired a lawyer to try to get out of the army because of the harrasement he received for being a muslim.
The murders he commited yesterday are inexcusable. But there are facets of this case that need to be considered aswell.
I don't know if the US excused people from doing military service when there was a draft for religion motives, but that's a fairly common occurence in other countries.

[ElNono]

I should add, my condolences go to the families of the victims.

[Shastafarian]

So, this has nothing to do with the man's conversion to Islam?

Wrong again


An imam from a mosque Hasan regularly attended said Hasan, a lifelong Muslim, was a committed soldier, gave no sign of extremist beliefs and regularly wore his uniform at prayers.

[johnsmith]

This whole thing just once again proves that no matter what you affiliate yourself with, be it muslim, christian, liberal, conservative, black, white, etc, etc............there are always fucked up lunatics in every "group".

[ElNono]

This whole thing just once again proves that no matter what you affiliate yourself with, be it muslim, christian, liberal, conservative, black, white, etc, etc............there are always fucked up lunatics in every "group".

We have a winner...

[MannyIsGod]

What jack completely forgets is that this guy actually joined the Army before we were at war with radical muslims. He actually even hired a lawyer to try to get out of the army because of the harrasement he received for being a muslim.
The murders he commited yesterday are inexcusable. But there are facets of this case that need to be considered aswell.
I don't know if the US excused people from doing military service when there was a draft for religion motives, but that's a fairly common occurence in other countries.

Its always black and white for some people. Its the era of you're either with us or against us and the details don't usually matter which is shame because understanding is a huge part of prevention.

[Winehole23]

Ahh, the religion of peace.Do you blame Christianity for the OKC bombing? Or Roman Catholicism for the IRA?

[Winehole23]

If not, why not?

[Oh, Gee!!]

sounds like the guy used the military for a career, but flipped out when the military asked something of him in return. I never understand people who join the military and get upset when asked to serve in battle. The foremost duty of any soldier is to serve in battle.

[Winehole23]

Two men released, a third is in custody. (As of 845 last night)

http://www.centraltexasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=11454400

[jack sommerset]

So some want to pretend a hasan's jihad at Fort Hood had nothing to do with, well, you know...

[DarrinS]

So some want to pretend a hasan's jihad at Fort Hood had nothing to do with, well, you know...


The media is a bunch of pussies and are afraid to call this what it really is.

[DarrinS]

And why did Obama blather on for minutes and give odd "shout outs" before addressing this tragedy?

T0hiw8iXdMM

[clambake]

he did it to irritate you.

[Winehole23]

The media is a bunch of pussies and are afraid to call this what it really is.What is it really, profe?

[Oh, Gee!!]

And why did Obama blather on for minutes and give odd "shout outs" before addressing this tragedy?

he must be one of them! OMG--This thing goes all the way to the top, Darrin!! You're not crazy after all.


douche.

[Nbadan]

Military extremism brought on by harassment by soldiers of other cultures?

[DarrinS]

What is it really, profe?


Whatever it is, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with being Muslim.

[jack sommerset]

Military extremism brought on by harassment by soldiers of other cultures?

:sleep

[DarrinS]

he must be one of them! OMG--This thing goes all the way to the top, Darrin!! You're not crazy after all.


douche.


Yeah, that's what I meant. :rolleyes

Ever hear of a book called "My Pet Goat"?

[Winehole23]

Whatever it is, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with being Muslim.Silly me. I thought you were suggesting the exact opposite.

[DarrinS]

Silly me. I thought you were suggesting the exact opposite.

You're not very good at picking up on sarcasm.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Yeah, that's what I meant. :rolleyes

you're the one suggesting a cover-up, which is totally :rolleyes at this point in the investigation.

[DarrinS]

you're the one suggesting a cover-up, which is totally :rolleyes at this point in the investigation.


You're an idiot.

[101A]

And why did Obama blather on for minutes and give odd "shout outs" before addressing this tragedy?

T0hiw8iXdMM

He probably should have realized he was national at that point; and gotten right to the point rather than addressing the people right in front of him; but that's on his handlers, not him - bad synchronization with the cutover from the network - but not a big deal, IMO.

[Winehole23]

You're not very good at picking up on sarcasm.You missed mine, which aped yours. :rolleyes

[Oh, Gee!!]

You're an idiot.

I see....You're not saying, you're just saying?

[ChumpDumper]

What is Darrin saying? Why can't he just say it?

[coyotes_geek]

So now that we're up to speed on our sarcasm, have we figured out what exactly the media should be calling this after already telling us he's muslim and shouted allah akbar?

[Oh, Gee!!]

What is Darrin saying? Why can't he just say it?

he's being watched? I prefer innuendo to reportable facts, but I'm crazy that way.

[DarrinS]

He probably should have realized he was national at that point; and gotten right to the point rather than addressing the people right in front of him; but that's on his handlers, not him - bad synchronization with the cutover from the network - but not a big deal, IMO.


I agree. Still -- didn't look good.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I agree. Still -- didn't look good.

maybe that's what they want you to think.

[Winehole23]

So now that we're up to speed on our sarcasm, have we figured out what exactly the media should be calling this after already telling us he's muslim and shouted allah akbar?Obviously, they should jump to conclusions like Darrin and jack, and blame the religious creed of a murderer.

[ChumpDumper]

I agree. Still -- didn't look good.For someone who doesn't think it was a big deal, you're making a big deal of it.

[DarrinS]

What is Darrin saying? Why can't he just say it?


An Islamic extremist committed an act of terrorism on a US military base.


Am I being obtuse?


Why can't the likes of Katy Couric and Brian Williams even say the word "Muslim"?


When this story first broke, CNN and A-Mess-NBC started going on and on about PTSD.

[DarrinS]

For someone who doesn't think it was a big deal, you're making a big deal of it.


It's a teachable moment.

[PixelPusher]

It's a teachable moment.

And what lesson are you drawing from this? Kick all muslims out of the military?

[clambake]

i listen to the same tv and radio programs that darrins listens to.

[DarrinS]

And what lesson are you drawing from this? Kick all muslims out of the military?


They can't even be singled-out at airports. I think we are too deep in political correctness for us to start banning muslims from the military.

[ChumpDumper]

Am I being obtuse?You're always kind of stupid, without the kind of.



Why can't the likes of Katy Couric and Brian Williams even say the word "Muslim"?


When this story first broke, CNN and A-Mess-NBC started going on and on about PTSD.You watched every newscast from start to finish last night?

I don't think you did.

[DarrinS]

i listen to the same tv and radio programs that darrins listens to.


Why do you hate your shift key?

[MannyIsGod]

What makes him an Islamic extremist again? Or what makes this a terrorist act again? I'm not sure he had a political agenda yet, but if you have information to share on that front please do so. I've also not been privy to any information that he practiced any extreme forms of Islam but if you have information on that front please share it as well.

[coyotes_geek]

When this story first broke, CNN and A-Mess-NBC started going on and on about PTSD.

How ridiculous. Everybody knows that muslims are immune to ptsd. Any responsible journalist should know to go to the jihad card immediately without waiting for pesky details like facts.

[ChumpDumper]

They can't even be singled-out at airports. I think we are too deep in political correctness for us to start banning muslims from the military.But do you want that to happen?

Say what you mean.

[MannyIsGod]

They can't even be singled-out at airports. I think we are too deep in political correctness for us to start banning muslims from the military.

Wait, so you're actually FOR kicking all our Muslim soldiers out of the military and think the only thing that is preventing this is political correctness?

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.newyorker.com/images/2008/09/29/p465/080929_slideshowplaton16_p465.jpg
Fuck you Darrin.

[clambake]

maybe he's afraid to say "internment camps" out loud.

[PixelPusher]

They can't even be singled-out at airports. I think we are too deep in political correctness for us to start banning muslims from the military.

Yeah, It would be "politically incorrect"...it wouldn't be bigotry or racism to single out Americans with Arabic last names right?

[spursncowboys]

They can't even be singled-out at airports. I think we are too deep in political correctness for us to start banning muslims from the military.

"checking every eighth person is great if you are at war with every eighth person"
D Miller

[ChumpDumper]

"checking every eighth person is great if you are at war with every eighth person"
D MillerChecking every Muslim is great if you are at war with every Muslim.

[Winehole23]

They can't even be singled-out at airports.Should they?

[Oh, Gee!!]

"checking every eighth person is great if you are at war with every eighth person"
D Miller

what chump said

[clambake]

why don't we take them to a place until we find out if they're terrorist?

[ChumpDumper]

If only Darrin had stuck around to read this from work....he'll be back with a fresh batch of YouTubes and pasted columns, though.

[Oh, Gee!!]

zing!

I changed my post, idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

I changed my post, idiot.:lol

So did I.

[MannyIsGod]

This is so fucking stupid. Instead of actually learning the lesson that bigotry toward members of your own fucking military simply based on their religion is fucking horrible Darrin is sitting here advocating it. Its fucking amazing.

[Oh, Gee!!]

:lol

So did I.

lolz

[DarrinS]

Should they?


Certainly not. We should only do body cavity searches on elderly people with Scandanavian backgrounds.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Certainly not. We should only do body cavity searches on elderly people with Scandanavian backgrounds.

that won't solve anything

[ChumpDumper]

Certainly not. We should only do body cavity searches on elderly people with Scandanavian backgrounds.Are you being sarcastic?

Why don't you answer with a simple yes or no.

Should Muslims be singled out at airports simply for being Muslim?

[clambake]

why limit it to airports?

[ChumpDumper]

why limit it to airports?Let's see if he answers one question straight first.

[Oh, Gee!!]

why limit it to muslims?

[MannyIsGod]

Darrin loves his sarcasm. Maybe thats why he voted for Obama.

[clambake]

why don't you ask your boss if you can go strip search some rag heads?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Darrin loves his sarcasm. Maybe thats why he voted for Obama.

he probably thinks alanis morissete (sp?) is a prolific songwriter.

[Winehole23]

Darrin loves his sarcasm.It's plausible deniability for his own opinions, which for some reason he refuses to own. It's the cowardice of his own convictions, you might say.

[MannyIsGod]

It's his plausible deniability for his own opinions, which for some reason he refuses to own. It's the cowardice of his own convictions, you might say.

I don't expect Darrin to answer anything directly because I don't think he knows how to answer. He has no idea what he's saying half the time and I'm fairly sure he has no idea how he formulates the ideas he tries to express.

I guess thats the long winded way of saying Darrin is fairly stupid and I set the bar incredibly low for him.

[DarrinS]

It's his plausible deniability for his own opinions, which for some reason he refuses to own. It's the cowardice of his own convictions, you might say.


Yelling "Allah Akbar!" and then opening fire on a large crowd was probably just caused by stress.


Sincerely,

MSM

[Winehole23]

Darrin is not intellectually robust, but I wouldn't call him stupid. Hiding behind his own sarcasm indicates guile IMO.

[DarrinS]

I don't expect Darrin to answer anything directly because I don't think he knows how to answer. He has no idea what he's saying half the time and I'm fairly sure he has no idea how he formulates the ideas he tries to express.

I guess thats the long winded way of saying Darrin is fairly stupid and I set the bar incredibly low for him.


Darrin is not intellectually robust, but I wouldn't call him stupid. Hiding behind his own sarcasm indicates guile IMO.


Why don't you douchebags go to the previous page and read my response to CumDumpster? That's as clear and direct as I can possibly communicate.

[ChumpDumper]

Yelling "Allah Akbar!" and then opening fire on a large crowd was probably just caused by stress.


Sincerely,

MSMIs that a yes or no, Darrin?
Should Muslims be singled out at airports simply for being Muslim?

[PixelPusher]

http://www.newyorker.com/images/2008/09/29/p465/080929_slideshowplaton16_p465.jpg
Fuck you Darrin.

A teachable moment.

Oh, who am I kidding. Continue on with your passive-aggressive song and dance, DarrinS. We've got "every 8th person" and "Scandanavians" out of the way. Bring on the "Grandmas with knitting needles" - the sooner you finish painting yourself into a corner, the better.

[ChumpDumper]

Why don't you douchebags go to the previous page and read my response to CumDumpster? That's as clear and direct as I can possibly communicate.Let's see if you can do it again.
Should Muslims be singled out at airports simply for being Muslim?

[Winehole23]

Yelling "Allah Akbar!" and then opening fire on a large crowd was probably just caused by stress.


Sincerely,

MSMSuggesting that Islam caused it is just as simpleminded.

[MannyIsGod]

Why don't you douchebags go to the previous page and read my response to CumDumpster? That's as clear and direct as I can possibly communicate.

:lol

You only serve to reinforce my previous statement.

[DarrinS]

Should Muslims be singled out at airports simply for being Muslim?


Yes!

But pretty soon, technology will be available that will be available that can detect these people (regardless of ethnicity) and we won't have to do anything that will offend anyone.

[Winehole23]

Why don't you douchebags go to the previous page and read my response to CumDumpster? That's as clear and direct as I can possibly communicate.Your reasoning there is elliptical too, though your inference is clear enough. I guess the closest you come to clear and direct is obvious innuendo.

[clambake]

Yes!

But pretty soon, technology will be available that will be available that can detect these people (regardless of ethnicity) and we won't have to do anything that will offend anyone.

fort hood is an airport?

[ChumpDumper]

Yes!

But pretty soon, technology will be available that will be available that can detect these people (regardless of ethnicity) and we won't have to do anything that will offend anyone.Why couldn't you just stop at yes without all the stupidity that followed?

Is that really as clear and direct as you can possibly communicate.?

[Oh, Gee!!]

But pretty soon, technology will be available that will be available that can detect these people

a computer program to guess one's religion?

[DarrinS]

Your reasoning there is elliptical too, though your inference is clear enough. I guess the closest you come to clear and direct is obvious innuendo.

What part of my post was unclear?




An Islamic extremist committed an act of terrorism on a US military base.

[PixelPusher]

fort hood is an airport?
now, now...one "teachable moment" at a time. It'll probably take 2 more pages to drag out the answer to my original question.

[Winehole23]

Darrin started off by wondering if foreigners were somehow involved, and has ended by blaming Islam.

He's a 21st century Know-Nothing (http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=911).

[coyotes_geek]

a computer program to guess one's religion?

=if(koran>=1,terrorist="true")

[Oh, Gee!!]

=if(koran>=1,terrorist="true")

:lolget the patent now, you're gonna be rich I tell ya!

[Winehole23]

What part of my post was unclear?It wasn't unclear but it was indirect. You clearly blame Islam per se, in the total absence of evidence that Major Hasan's religious practice was in any way extreme.

[DarrinS]

It wasn't unclear but it was indirect. You clearly blame Islam per se, in the total absence of evidence that Major Hasan's religious practice was in any way extreme.


He has written on the Internet that he sympathizes with suicide bombers. He also yelled out "Allah Akbar!" and opened fire on a crowd of unarmed people.

That seems pretty extreme.

[EmptyMan]

Should Muslims be singled out at airports simply for being Muslim? Yes.


See how easy that was.


Muslims blow shit up, White dudes are Serial Killers, Black dudes like dat ass. It is what it is. No need to get butt hurt.

[Winehole23]

Any creed at all can be invoked to justify violence. Instead of blaming the kook, you blame the creed.

[clambake]

fort hood is not an airport.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes.


See how easy that was.


Muslims blow shit up, White dudes are Serial Killers, Black dudes like dat ass. It is what it is. No need to get butt hurt.The last couple of plane hijackings were committed by a Bolivian and a Jamaican repsecitvely.

[MannyIsGod]

Enlightened Americans -- at least those who trace their patriotism to Thomas Jefferson, a man fascinated by and respectful of Islam and whose library contained copies of the Koran -- should be unsettled by the rush to judgment regarding not just this one Muslim but all Muslims

.....

"I'm sad for those killed and wounded by a traitor to both God and our country, and I regret that I even feel that I have to write something on the subject. Words cannot express my emotions and the instant headache I received when notified by my dear sister Sheila Musaji over at The American Muslim (TAM) concerning the alleged culprit," wrote Salaam, (http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/the_fort_hood_shooting/0017713) who served in the Marine Corps, within minutes after learning the gunman's name. "They have not yet released further details such as the motive but I will state for the record that no true Muslim could ever commit such a crime against humanity. As Muslims we are reminded that to take one innocent life is as if one killed all of mankind. Muslims are also commanded to keep their oaths when given."

.....

The Council on American-Islamic Relations (http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?ArticleID=26126&&name=n&&currPage=1), the nation's largest Muslim civil rights and advocacy group, issued a statement that read: "We condemn this cowardly attack in the strongest terms possible and ask that the perpetrators be punished to the full extent of the law. No religious or political ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence. The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted the all-volunteer army that protects our nation. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens in offering both prayers for the victims and sincere condolences to the families of those killed or injured."
Salam Al-Marayati, executive director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, (https://app.e2ma.net/app/view:CampaignPublic/id:2785.2550807625/rid:3d5a0378360073796840580fb94ad3e5) declared that, "Our entire organization extends its heartfelt condolences to the families of those killed as well as to those wounded and their loved ones. We stand in solidarity with law enforcement and the US military to maintain the safety and security of all Americans."






http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/493148/horror_at_fort_hood_inspires_horribly_predictable_ islamophobia

[Oh, Gee!!]

He has written on the Internet that he sympathizes with suicide bombers. He also yelled out "Allah Akbar!" and opened fire on a crowd of unarmed people.

and once those suspicions can be verified or supported, you'll probably see a shift in the reporting to include questions/conclusions/opinions about whether the shooting was an act of terrorism. for now, it's a little early to expect responsible journalists to call this anything but a tragic shooting.

[DarrinS]

Any creed at all can be invoked to justify violence. Instead of blaming the kook, you blame the creed.


I don't blame the entire religion of Islam -- just the fraction of it that does fucked up shit.

[MannyIsGod]

soon after news of the ft. Hood shooting (http://mobile.latimes.com/inf/infomo?view=page8&feed:a=latimes_1min&feed:c=topstories&feed:i=50327416) had reached the airwaves, the council on american islamic relations released (http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/muslim-group-releases-statement-on-fort-hood-shootings.php) a statement saying, "we condemn this cowardly attack in the strongest terms possible." the name of the alleged assailant, major malik nidal hasan, had necessitated a quick response from the group because of the fear that muslims as a whole would be assigned collective responsibility for the actions of one man whose religious affectations were, at that point, unknown. Some reporters began pontificating about the dangers of post-traumatic stress disorder, which was just as irresponsible.

But cair's fears were sadly confirmed quite quickly, as john nichols wrote (http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/493148/horror_at_fort_hood_inspires_horribly_predictable_ islamophobia) yesterday evening. michelle malkin, whose book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/in_defense_of_internment) in defense of internment advocated for the use of racial profiling against arabs and muslims, quickly recycled (http://michellemalkin.com/2009/11/06/the-massacre-at-fort-hood-and-muslim-soldiers-with-attitude/) a 2003 column suggesting that there was something wrong with allowing muslims to serve (http://townhall.com/columnists/michellemalkin/2003/03/26/mswa_muslim_soldiers_with_attitude) in the armed forces. "political correctness is the handmaiden of terror," malkin tweeted (http://twitter.com/michellemalkin/status/5475886943). Don't you see? If we had just listened to her, and treated those people as enemies to begin with, this would never have happened. There are thousands (http://washingtonindependent.com/66899/statement-on-ft-hood-from-arab-american-military-association) of arab-americans serving in the armed forces, and many have given their lives defending this country -- malkin would have us see all of them as potential traitors.



...


In the past few months, we've seen a number of shootings performed by white men with right-wing fringe beliefs. But while an attempt to assign the responsibility for the murder (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/31/george-tiller-killed-abor_n_209504.html) of george tiller, or the killing (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/04/national/main4919337.shtml) of police in pittsburgh, or the assault (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31208188/) on the holocaust museum to white men as a whole would rightfully be seen as idiotic, there are those who sit poised and prepared assign the alleged actions of one man to an entire people. this is, quite frankly, the best reaction groups like al-qaeda could hope for: The strength of their narrative of a war between islam and the west ultimately rests on our own actions. We should not indulge them or those that share a similar worldview.


http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=11&year=2009&base_name=better_angels

[ChumpDumper]

I don't blame the entire religion of Islam -- just the fraction of it that does fucked up shit.But you do want every person who practices that religion to be singled out at airports.

[MannyIsGod]

He has written on the Internet that he sympathizes with suicide bombers. He also yelled out "Allah Akbar!" and opened fire on a crowd of unarmed people.

That seems pretty extreme.

Do you have links to those writings?

[DarrinS]

But you do want every person who practices that religion to be singled out at airports.


How do you distinguish the good ones from the fucked up ones?


This is where the new technology will come into play and we won't have to hurt anyones feeewings.

[Oh, Gee!!]

How do you distinguish the good ones from the fucked up ones?


This is where the new technology will come into play and we won't have to hurt anyones feeewings.

technology to gain insight into an individual's innermost thoughts and desires most likely from afar?

[ChumpDumper]

How do you distinguish the good ones from the fucked up ones?I think people who are much smarter than you have worked on this, and I'm not just saying that because you're an idiot.


This is where the new technology will come into play and we won't have to hurt anyones feeewings.There you go again....

[ElNono]

What makes him an Islamic extremist again? Or what makes this a terrorist act again? I'm not sure he had a political agenda yet, but if you have information to share on that front please do so. I've also not been privy to any information that he practiced any extreme forms of Islam but if you have information on that front please share it as well.

If he's muslim, then it's automatically a terrorist act.
If he's christian, jew, or simply non-muslim, then he's just a nutjob murderer.

Please get it right, I don't want to have to explain this fucked up rationale again.

[DarrinS]

Do you have links to those writings?

http://www.scribd.com/NidalHasan

[Winehole23]

How do you distinguish the good ones from the fucked up ones?Obviously, you segregate the entire class for official processing on the basis of creed alone.

[MannyIsGod]

NidalHasan (http://www.scribd.com/NidalHasan) scribbled: There was a grenade thrown amongs a group of American soldiers. One of the soldiers, feeling that it was to late for everyone to flee jumped on the grave with the intention of saving his comrades. Indeed he saved them. He inentionally took his life (suicide) for a noble cause i.e. saving the lives of his soldier. To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause. Scholars have paralled this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory. Their intention is not to die because of some despair. The same can be said for the Kamikazees in Japan. They died (via crashing their planes into ships) to kill the enemies for the homeland. You can call them crazy i you want but their act was not one of suicide that is despised by Islam. So the scholars main point is that "IT SEEMS AS THOUGH YOUR INTENTION IS THE MAIN ISSUE" and Allah (SWT) knows best.Thats a fairly nuanced statement. I don't know how this alone can be construed as having an extremist point of view. I don't know enough about Islam to say what he says is correct or incorrect, but I don't see anything in there that points to terrorism at all.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Obviously, you segregate the entire class for official processing.

but you can do it by computer without them ever knowing, so it's not illegal or unethical.

[DarrinS]

technology to gain insight into an individual's innermost thoughts and desires most likely from afar?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-09-18-bioscanner_N.htm

[DarrinS]

If he's muslim, then it's automatically a terrorist act.
If he's christian, jew, or simply non-muslim, then he's just a nutjob murderer.

Please get it right, I don't want to have to explain this fucked up rationale again.



If he's christian, jew, or simply non-muslim, then it's automatically a domestic terrorist act.

If he's muslim, then he's just a nutjob murderer.

Please get it right, I don't want to have to explain this fucked up rationale again.


Actually, I should correct the MSM quote. They won't even say "muslim".

[ElNono]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-09-18-bioscanner_N.htm

Anxiety-detecting machines could spot terrorists

Like the TSA's program,FAST raises reliability questions. Even if machines accurately spot someone whose heart rate jumps suddenly, that may signal the agitation of learning aflight is delayed, said Timothy Levine, a Michigan State University expert ondeceptive behavior.

"What determines your heart rate is a whole bunch ofreasons besides hostile intent," Levine said. "This is the whole reason behavioral profiles don't work."

Burns said the measurements would not be stored and would give a quick read on someone. Previous research, Burns added, has found that people planning to cause harm act differently from the anxious or annoyed.


----

Good luck with that. If you think it's annoying to flight right now, wait until this shit starts spitting false positives like there's no tomorrow.

[ElNono]

Actually, I should correct the MSM quote. They won't even say "muslim".

So we round up all muslim and send them to Gitmo? Just in case, right?

[Oh, Gee!!]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-09-18-bioscanner_N.htm

measuring nervousness at an airport is not effective b/c many passengers if not most are nervous/stressed at airports.

[ElNono]

measuring nervousness at an airport is not effective b/c many passengers if not most people are nervous/stressed at airports.

Notice also the article date...

[DarrinS]

Anxiety-detecting machines could spot terrorists

Like the TSA's program,FAST raises reliability questions. Even if machines accurately spot someone whose heart rate jumps suddenly, that may signal the agitation of learning aflight is delayed, said Timothy Levine, a Michigan State University expert ondeceptive behavior.

"What determines your heart rate is a whole bunch ofreasons besides hostile intent," Levine said. "This is the whole reason behavioral profiles don't work."

Burns said the measurements would not be stored and would give a quick read on someone. Previous research, Burns added, has found that people planning to cause harm act differently from the anxious or annoyed.


----

Good luck with that. If you think it's annoying to flight right now, wait until this shit starts spitting false positives like there's no tomorrow.


Ever seen Midnight Express?

[ElNono]

Ever seen Midnight Express?

No. Did you ever see Die Hard?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Notice also the article date...

maybe darrin hasn't refreshed the page since september 2008, and that's why the article was fresh on his mind. or maybe he googled really hard to try to keep us from ridiculing him even more about his "minority report" fantasies.

[DarrinS]

maybe darrin hasn't refreshed the page since september 2008, and that's why the article was fresh on his mind. or maybe he googled really hard to try to keep us from ridiculing him even more about his "minority report" fantasies.


Is September 2008 ancient history or something?

[MannyIsGod]

In any event, I'm curious on your views of the statement you linked by the shooter, Darrin. What do you feel is incorrect about it? And of course, why?

[DarrinS]

No. Did you ever see Die Hard?


Midnight Express. Guy is attempting to smuggle hash out of Turkey and gets busted. Good movie and true story.

rfohXqNhCpY

[ElNono]

Is September 2008 ancient history or something?

It's been over a year.
Have you seen one of those machines on an airport recently?

[ElNono]

Midnight Express. Guy is attempting to smuggle has out of Turkey and gets busted. Good movie and true story.

I'm reading the synopsis:

The movie deviates from the book's accounts of the story, especially in its portrayal of Turks, to such a level that many have criticized the movie version, including Billy Hayes himself. Later, both Oliver Stone and Billy Hayes expressed their regret on how Turkish people were portrayed in the movie.

Would this be you in 5 or 10 years?

[DarrinS]

I'm reading the synopsis:

The movie deviates from the book's accounts of the story, especially in its portrayal of Turks, to such a level that many have criticized the movie version, including Billy Hayes himself. Later, both Oliver Stone and Billy Hayes expressed their regret on how Turkish people were portrayed in the movie.

Would this be you in 5 or 10 years?


Oliver Stone should apologize for many of his movies. But I thought Midnight Express was a pretty good film.

[Oh, Gee!!]

it's also relevant to the discussion

[Winehole23]

Sarcasm, innuendo, non-sequitur and hijack. Is the whole DarrinS oeuvre.

[DarrinS]

Sarcasm, innuendo, non-sequitur and hijack. Is the whole DarrinS oeuvre.

:toast


WH, have you ever seen Midnight Express?

[Winehole23]

Yeah, I have. Your point?

[Cry Havoc]

This thread is wow. I have no words.

Should all people of all faiths now be subject to search & seizure without warning? There are extremists of every faith, and atheism has shown itself to have some crazies as well. Perhaps we should just do away with civil rights and interrogate anyone who isn't wearing United States flag underwear?

On a personal note, a good friend of mine was injured at Fort Hood yesterday. She was on-duty and was hit by a single round, I think in the arm, but that's unconfirmed. So far I only know for certain is that she is alive. Prayers/good thoughts would be appreciated.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

This thread is wow. I have no words.

Should all people of all faiths now be subject to search & seizure without warning? There are extremists of every faith, and atheism has shown itself to have some crazies as well. Perhaps we should just do away with civil rights and interrogate anyone who isn't wearing United States flag underwear?

On a personal note, a good friend of mine was injured at Fort Hood yesterday. She was on-duty and was hit by a single round, I think in the arm, but that's unconfirmed. So far I only know for certain is that she is alive. Prayers/good thoughts would be appreciated.

First, good to hear about your friend.

Second, I don't think the search and seize without warning is valid. The problem with this situation is this guy was identified and investigated months earlier, but due to political correctness was not booted from the military.

13 American soldiers paid the ultimate price yesterday because of it.

[Winehole23]

Second, I don't think the search and seize without warning is valid. The problem with this situation is this guy was identified and investigated months earlier, but due to political correctness was not booted from the military.Declarative case. Hmm.

Do you know something the rest of us don't? Had Major Hasan done something that warranted being booted?

[DarrinS]

This thread is wow. I have no words.

Should all people of all faiths now be subject to search & seizure without warning? There are extremists of every faith, and atheism has shown itself to have some crazies as well. Perhaps we should just do away with civil rights and interrogate anyone who isn't wearing United States flag underwear?



My opinions are based on 40 years of life experience. Unfortunately, in those years, one group is disproportionately represented in carrying out these types of heinous acts.





On a personal note, a good friend of mine was injured at Fort Hood yesterday. She was on-duty and was hit by a single round, I think in the arm, but that's unconfirmed. So far I only know for certain is that she is alive. Prayers/good thoughts would be appreciated.

Sorry for your friend. Hope she is ok.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Anxiety-detecting machines could spot terrorists

Like the TSA's program,FAST raises reliability questions. Even if machines accurately spot someone whose heart rate jumps suddenly, that may signal the agitation of learning aflight is delayed, said Timothy Levine, a Michigan State University expert ondeceptive behavior.

"What determines your heart rate is a whole bunch ofreasons besides hostile intent," Levine said. "This is the whole reason behavioral profiles don't work."

Burns said the measurements would not be stored and would give a quick read on someone. Previous research, Burns added, has found that people planning to cause harm act differently from the anxious or annoyed.


----

Good luck with that. If you think it's annoying to flight right now, wait until this shit starts spitting false positives like there's no tomorrow.

Eh, it's worked for Israel for a good 25 years now...

[Shastafarian]

My opinions are based on 40 years of life experience. Unfortunately, in those years, one group is disproportionately represented in carrying out these types of heinous acts.


Men?

[MannyIsGod]

My opinions are based on 40 years of life experience. Unfortunately, in those years, one group is disproportionately represented in carrying out these types of heinous acts.


I'd like to see your statistics on this.

[Winehole23]

My opinions are based on 40 years of life experience. Unfortunately, in those years, one group is disproportionately represented in carrying out these types of heinous acts.Is that just your perception, or can you back that up empirically?

[DarrinS]

I'd like to see your statistics on this.

Just a few off the top of my head.


1972 Olympics in Munich
Iranian revolution and hostage crisis
Beiruit bombing in 1983
Lockerby bombing in 1988
WTC bombing in 1993
Mogadishu, Somalia
Khobar Towers
USS Cole
Y2K plot
American embassy bombings in Africa
911

[MannyIsGod]

Those aren't statistics. Those are examples.

[whottt]

Thats a fairly nuanced statement. I don't know how this alone can be construed as having an extremist point of view. I don't know enough about Islam to say what he says is correct or incorrect, but I don't see anything in there that points to terrorism at all.

There's not anything in there that points terrorism, that is war. There was nothing terrorist about the Kamikazees and there's nothing terrorist about blowing yourself up to kill enemy soldiers or destroy military targets.

It becomes terrorism when the entire purpose is to target civillians and to a lesser extent deliberately endanger civillians by using them as shields or camouflage.

It's trickier in the case where everyone is basically a potential member of the military including women or even children as was the case with the Khmer Rouge. If everyone is in the military, including the women and children, then everyone is a target.

[MannyIsGod]

There's not anything in there that points terrorism, that is war. There was nothing terrorist about the Kamikazees and there's nothing terrorist about blowing yourself up to kill enemy soldiers or destroy military targets.

It becomes terrorism when the entire purpose is to target civillians and to a lesser extend deliberately endanger civillians by using them as shields or camouflage.

It's trickier in the case where everyone is basically a potential member of the military including women or even children as was the case with the Khmer Rouge.

I agree with this completely.

[MannyIsGod]

Which also brings to question, Whottt. Can yesterday's attack ever be considered terrorism even if he had ties with terrorist groups considering the target of the attack was a military one?

[whottt]

Which also brings to question, Whottt. Can yesterday's attack ever be considered terrorism even if he had ties with terrorist groups considering the target of the attack was a military one?

Nope. It's not an act of terror. Espionage would be a better term, and that's someting that's generally accepted by everyone as a convention of warfare...

Yes it's in the rules and it's also in the rules that when the guy gets caught, he is royally fucked and basically anything the captors want to do to him is fair game. It's basically like he doesn't exist.

This is why I had no problem with certain Quantanmo detainees being tortured...if they failed to mark themselves clearly as enemy combatats and attempted to pass themselves off as civillians, they were basically spies and subject to the same treatment as the spies of any country are. They cease to exist as human beings once they are caught.


This applies to US special forces attempting to masquerade as civillians as well...if those guys get caught, and they do, anything their captors want to do to them is fair game according to the rules of war as I understand them. Spies simply do not exist once caught.

[MannyIsGod]

Interesting viewpoint.

[Winehole23]

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/pubs/fs/5902.htm

[whottt]

Interesting viewpoint.

Look at it this way...if someone is going to masquerade as a civillian and is caught doing it, then in order to avoid rampant mistrust and persecution of innocent people, which is never right, say in this case innocent muslims, torturing the shit out of the guy to find out just who is and who isn't also a spy is actually the best way to keep the truly innocent out of the conflict.

You take on the role of the spy, you give up your right to any tenet of the Geneva convention and the support of the country/people on whose behalf you are operating.

And generally, countries do not acknowledge the existence of their spies when they are caught...they totally deny their existence.

They simply say, he's not our spy, we have no idea who he is...the captors then say, ok then, well if no one is going to intercede on his behalf and claim him, then we have a right to find out just who he is and what he is doing here to protect our own people.

It's really the ultimate act of patriotism...because you are truly on island all alone and the consequences of being caught are the absolute worst of any war combatant. I think most people that do this are generally aware of the consequences if they are caught and are willing to accept them. Death is not the worst thing that can happen to them. Not a by a longshot.

I know they tell the US Special Forces that do these activities...if you get caught, kill yourself before they do. And I believe they are equipped with the means to do so. And you will never hear the US Govt publicize it when it happens.


You can't round up every Muslim, or Japanese, or every American, but you can torture the shit out fo the guy to find out exactly who you do need to round up, assuming he knows of course.

Yeah it can get fucked up when people that aren't spies are accused of being as such, which happens all the time, or spies name innocent people, and give false information but that's why war is a bitch. and torturing the shit out of one guy is a better prospect than mass killing or persecution...and you know, if you aren't in the military, and you aren't a spy, you really need to get the fuck out places where people are killing each other or creating the means to do so.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Men?

ethnics?

[whottt]

My belief is that whether this guy is acting on behalf of anyone else or not...he's still a decptive enemy. Traitor, lunatic or spy take your pick...if he's a traitor or a spy, both are subject to the same treatment as far I am concerned..and there's absolutely no doubt about his guilt. People have a right to protect themselves against those either ignoring the rules or taking advantage of them. Whatever they want to do to this guy...is fair game and that includes torturning the shit out of him. It's the best way to protect ourselves, and innocent people that might otherwise take the brunt of the consquences of his actions.

May be inhumane, but IMO, it's the best compromise between humanity and stupidity.

[Oh, Gee!!]

for now, he's a mass murderer imo.

[DarrinS]

Those aren't statistics. Those are examples.


Sorry Manny. I don't have any examples of attacks by the Amish, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, etc.

[Winehole23]

Sorry Manny. I don't have any examples of attacks by the Amish, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, etc.So then perhaps the case is that your own awareness is limited -- or selective -- rather than things being as disproportionate as you suggested.

[rjv]

Those aren't statistics. Those are examples.

now you're using logic. that's a technical foul.

[DarrinS]

So then perhaps the case is that your own awareness is limited -- or selective -- rather than things being as disproportionate as you suggested.


In my lifetime, no other particular group has carried out more attacks against the US.


Can you disprove that?