Bogans continue as starter?

[timtonymanu]

Should the Spurs let him start more games now? Or do you guys still like Mason to start? IMO, Bogans was very impressive tonight.

[DPG21920]

Bogans earned another shot to start tonight.

[SequSpur]

lmao at bogans.

[jag]

The Spurs don't need more offense. The offense will come...it's the defense that the Spurs need to work on. Bogans can obviously bring that.

[VivaPopovich]

Should the Spurs let him start more games now? Or do you guys still like Mason to start? IMO, Bogans was very impressive tonight.

Over Finley: Yes

Over Manu or Hill? No

He def. should get more minutes tho

He had a great game, good effort on the defensive end

[yourtehclay]

As I watched this game I was really impressed by what Bogans brought to the table. He may have struggled at times but good lord that man brings the intensity.

[exstatic]

Bogans is the best perimeter defender on the club. With Tim's lessened mobility, that's a commodity that's both in demand and in short supply.

[NewJerSpur]

Bogans is the best perimeter defender on the club. With Tim's lessened mobility, that's a commodity that's both in demand and in short supply.

Agreed. Especially with no shot blocking/altering at the rim outside of Tim at the moment.

[AFBlue]

He was very Bowen-esque tonight...played very active, solid defense and didn't really play outside of his game. He even chipped in a three-pointer. I think Bogans is probably going to get a start, but long-term I think he's much more suited for the "ice" guy that Bowen was supposed to be last year.

[SequSpur]

The Spurs got ear spanked and Bogans was good....

You guys are frickin Dizzy...

[DPG21920]

Hill had a solid game as well. Even his fouls were pretty good from a defensive point of view.

[spurtech09]

now all the spurs need is to put Ian in the line up

[SequSpur]

Hill had a solid game as well. Even his fouls were pretty good from a defensive point of view.

Hill played like a puss in the 4th quarter... Were you watching the game or listening to Jay Howard?

WTF?

[Morg1411]

The Spurs got ear spanked and Bogans was good....

You guys are frickin Dizzy...

:sleep

Shut up. Christ.

I liked Bogans play a lot this game. He can get the start over Fin (with Dyess starting in place of lol Bonner) so far as I'm concerned.

[DPG21920]

Watched the game.

[AFBlue]

The Spurs got ear spanked and Bogans was good....

You guys are frickin Dizzy...

Spurs played shoddy, unmotivated basketball for a quarter plus and their opponent was too good to surpass when they got their shit together.

They got ear-spanked in the first quarter and came back strong...tonight it just wasn't enough.

[Austin_Toros]

looks like Fin and Bogans switched their minutes for the game.
Bogans does not impress.

[SequSpur]

Spurs played shoddy, unmotivated basketball for a quarter plus and their opponent was too good to surpass when they got their shit together.

They got ear-spanked in the first quarter and came back strong...tonight it just wasn't enough.

ahhh...i didn't start watching the game until the 2nd and it was over already. So I assume Bonner let the charge at the beginning of the game and the lack of points which are required to win a game? Like, if you're the team that has more of them, it's a good thing?

[VivaPopovich]

:sleep

Shut up. Christ.

I liked Bogans play a lot this game. He can get the start over Fin (with Dyess starting in place of lol Bonner) so far as I'm concerned.

that woman in your avatar looks like she has raging herpes

raging

[Ice009]

The Spurs don't need more offense. The offense will come...it's the defense that the Spurs need to work on. Bogans can obviously bring that.

Keith looked a lot more fluid running the fast break than Bowen ever did, plus he can hit open 3's too. So I see no reason why he can't have another chance at starting if he continues to bust his ass on defense.

From people calling him the worst player on the team a few days ago to busting his ass tonight on D I was happy with his effort.

[superjames1992]

ahhh...i didn't start watching the game until the 2nd and it was over already. So I assume Bonner let the charge at the beginning of the game and the lack of points which are required to win a game? Like, if you're the team that has more of them, it's a good thing?
Bonner played good defense, holding Aldridge to 0-3 shooting and 0 points when he was in the game. All hell broke loose was once Dice was subbed in for Bonner and Timmy left the game with foul trouble. Blair came in for Timmy and things didn't go well from there on out.

Please get your facts straight before making stupid Bonner-hating statements.

[superjames1992]

But, yes, I did like what I saw from Bogans. Hopefully, he starts in the Spurs' next game, as well.

[SequSpur]

Bonner played good defense, holding Aldridge to 0-3 shooting and 0 points when he was in the game. All hell broke loose was once Dice was subbed in for Bonner and Timmy left the game with foul trouble. Blair came in for Timmy and things didn't go well from there on out.

Please get your facts straight before making stupid Bonner-hating statements.

they had 14 point with 9 minutes left in the 2nd.... I think a starting lineup change is in order..

[angelbelow]

im in support for starting him.

[EricB]

Bogans should be the starting shooting guard for the foreseeable future.

[SequSpur]

Bogans should be the starting shooting guard for the foreseeable future.

you smoke too much weed.

[Parker2112]

Bonner is trash.

[Parker2112]

sequ is trash

[AFBlue]

ahhh...i didn't start watching the game until the 2nd and it was over already. So I assume Bonner let the charge at the beginning of the game and the lack of points which are required to win a game? Like, if you're the team that has more of them, it's a good thing?


Bonner played good defense, holding Aldridge to 0-3 shooting and 0 points when he was in the game. All hell broke loose was once Dice was subbed in for Bonner and Timmy left the game with foul trouble. Blair came in for Timmy and things didn't go well from there on out.

Please get your facts straight before making stupid Bonner-hating statements.

"Bonner" and "good defense" don't normally go together, but I guess you could say he wasn't terrible. Aldrige was pretty bad all-around tonight and I'm not sure that it was because of Bonner. Having said that, it wasn't Bonner's defense that killed the Spurs early tonight.

I think it was the team as a whole...no offensive rhythm (you mentioned Tony not knowing when to pass or shoot) and no energy. RJ was attrocious on defense early and got benched because of it. Manu was off, Duncan was flat, Bonner was missing shots...all-around pretty terrible start that couldn't be blamed on any one player.

[Parker2112]

Bogans should continue to start

[SequSpur]

Bogans should continue to start

you should stop getting high.

[loveforthegame]

Did I watch a different game? I didn't think he was all that impressive. The spurs still sucked on defense and had no energy in the 1st quarter. That's all it took and while they fought back time after time they just brain farted all over the place to lose whatever momentum they had.

Not saying it was all on Bogans but the lineup change didn't help the Spurs any tonight. No rebounding, missed rotations, and lacked energy.

[Parker2112]

"Bonner" and "good defense" don't normally go together, but I guess you could say he wasn't terrible. Aldrige was pretty bad all-around tonight and I'm not sure that it was because of Bonner. Having said that, it wasn't Bonner's defense tonight that killed the Spurs early tonight.

I think it was the team as a whole...no offensive rhythm (you mentioned Tony not knowing when to pass or shoot) and no energy. RJ was attrocious on defense early and got benched because of it. Manu was off, Duncan was flat, Bonner was missing shots...all-around pretty terrible start that couldn't be blamed on any one player.

dont leave out Blake using tony for 5 points in the first five minutes...

[EricB]

Did I watch a different game? I didn't think he was all that impressive. The spurs still sucked on defense and had no energy in the 1st quarter. That's all it took and while they fought back time after time they just brain farted all over the place to lose whatever momentum they had.

Not saying it was all on Bogans but the lineup change didn't help the Spurs any tonight. No rebounding, missed rotations, and lacked energy.

Apparently you did Warrior fan.

Bogans had a damn nice night.

[Parker2112]

you should stop getting high.

someone has to play some D. TD is immobile. TP is going throught the motions. Manu fouls too much. Don't get me started on MF, Roger and Jefferson.

[NewJerSpur]

Did I watch a different game? I didn't think he was all that impressive. The spurs still sucked on defense and had no energy in the 1st quarter. That's all it took and while they fought back time after time they just brain farted all over the place to lose whatever momentum they had.

Not saying it was all on Bogans but the lineup change didn't help the Spurs any tonight. No rebounding, missed rotations, and lacked energy.

Guess we were watching a different game. They made some gaffs on offense that messed up the momentum but the game was there for the taking in the 4th. Bogans not only forced the ball out of Roy's hands but prevented his teammates from passing it to him at all while Keith was on him (like a shutdown corner on a star receiver). We'll see how this develops but the effort was there.

[loveforthegame]

Apparently you did Warrior fan.

Bogans had a damn nice night.

He had some nice moments but it wasn't anything special. It won't hurt to start him a few more games to see how it goes but there was no difference to the start of the game with him in the starting lineup.

[EricB]

He had some nice moments but it wasn't anything special. It won't hurt to start him a few more games to see how it goes but there was no difference to the start of the game with him in the starting lineup.

Again, did you miss the good defense?

I know thats a strange vocabulary word in northern california "defense"

[xellos88330]

I liked Bogans tonight. He looked pretty solid defensively. I just wish I could say the same for the Spurs interior defenders.

I would give him another shot at starting. I think Bonner should only be playing spot minutes. Ratliff or one of the inactives could take his spot.

[Danny.Zhu]

At least he started for ECF champion most of the regular season. He is a proven veteran.

[AFBlue]

Personally I'd like to see Mason Jr. start, provided he can show some of that defensive intensity and energy he had in the second half on a consistent basis. He just brings more scoring to the table.

BUT, I'd much rather go back to the Spurs of a couple years ago where they were willing to sacrifice some offensive gains to be stout defensively. If Bogans starts it won't be the end of the world.

Like I said though, ideally Mason Jr. brings credible defense early (along with shooting/scoring) and Bogans is brought in as the "chiller".

[Parker2112]

bonner is garbage.

[mystargtr34]

Hill gets beaten off the dribble way too easily for me... i think he might be slightly over rated on defense.

Probably has the rep because of his long arms.

[baseline bum]

Bogans definitely earned that starting spot with the way he was able to cool Roy down. I hope he earns a finishing spot too though.

[Parker2112]

Bogans starting and Hill in, we held them under 100. That's better than we did against the Jazz.

[AFBlue]

He had some nice moments but it wasn't anything special. It won't hurt to start him a few more games to see how it goes but there was no difference to the start of the game with him in the starting lineup.

Bogans was on Andre Miller to start out the game, and I didn't see Miller doing much in the early going.

Bogans did his job...it wasn't flashy and it didn't show up in the stat line...but he did his job, and he did it well.

[Parker2112]

Hill gets beaten off the dribble way too easily for me... i think he might be slightly over rated on defense.

Probably has the rep because of his long arms.

They help, when he gets the block from behind. I think he had two of them tonight.

[NewJerSpur]

Personally I'd like to see Mason Jr. start, provided he can show some of that defensive intensity and energy he had in the second half on a consistent basis. He just brings more scoring to the table.

BUT, I'd much rather go back to the Spurs of a couple years ago where they were willing to sacrifice some offensive gains to be stout defensively. If Bogans starts it won't be the end of the world.

Like I said though, ideally Mason Jr. brings credible defense early (along with shooting/scoring) and Bogans is brought in as the "chiller".

I'm a Mason backer, but if Bogans can help keep star perimeters in check to start the game I'd be for bring RMJ off the bench to heat up the offense....unless we're talking about brinking Jefferson off the bench and starting the both Mase AND Bogans. :stirpot:

[Blackjack]

This team's championship formula has always include a stopper, Bowen, in the lineup, even if it almost meant playing 4-on-5 offensively.

So, while Bogans might not be Bowen, the Spurs also didn't have an offensive player like Jefferson playing alongside Tim and Tony in the starting-5, while keeping Manu on the bench. Bogans is obviously a downgrade from Bowen but RJ's a big enough upgrade over Fin on both ends that it should be doable; I'm not sure they've got a better option currently.

I still have no clue why they haven't given Hairston a shot, given how well he played and the early stage of the season, but at least Bogans is a step in the right direction and a player that resembles Bowen on both ends; hopefully those spot-up 3's will start falling as he builds confidence through playing time.

If they've got Bonner on the floor, their perimeter defense needs to be stout.

If they've got Finley and Jefferson on the perimeter together, their interior defense has to be stout.

If they've got Finley and Bonner starting together, shoot me in the face.

[AFBlue]

Hill gets beaten off the dribble way too easily for me... i think he might be slightly over rated on defense.

Probably has the rep because of his long arms.

His recovery time is rediculous though. Hill played "swarming" defense down the stretch and was directly responsible for at least one opposing shot-clock violation and a couple rushed last-second shots.

His over-aggressive closing is more a function of inexperience and not knowing his opponent...things he can work on as he matures. He certainly has the physical skills to be a lock-down defender and the "makeup" to live up to that potential.

[itzsoweezee]

i'm a huge fan after tonight. time to give finley and bonner the axe.

a starting lineup of rjeff, tony, tim, mcdyess, and bogans would be straight.

[AFBlue]

I'm a Mason backer, but if Bogans can help keep star perimeters in check to start the game I'd be for bring RMJ off the bench to heat up the offense....unless we're talking about brinking Jefferson off the bench and starting the both Mase AND Bogans. :stirpot:

You won't see me advocating the latter...RJ absolutely needs to be out there on the opposing SF, because he's got the size and athleticism to hang with bigger players (Melo, Deng, etc.). RJ just needs to commit...and I think we saw some of that after he got benched early on.

About Bogans though, again...not the end of the world if he settles in as a starter.

[NewJerSpur]

You won't see me advocating the latter...RJ absolutely needs to be out there on the opposing SF, because he's got the size and athleticism to hang with bigger players (Melo, Deng, etc.). RJ just needs to commit...and I think we saw some of that after he got benched early on.

About Bogans though, again...not the end of the world if he settles in as a starter.

I've still got my concerns with RJ, in terms of him finishing on a defensive play. Seen him shadow guys and be able to stay in front of them all the way up until they reach the rim, then he just fades away/concedes. He's on a decline, but he's too athletic still to let that happen. I was glad Pop got in his ass (although he did it more for lack of rotation than one-on-one defnese)early and make him accountible. He finished better as the team in general picked it up on that end of the floor, but he has to play consistently. I saw effort from RMJ similar to what he displayed the frist half of the season last year tonight.

[AFBlue]

I've still got my concerns with RJ, in terms of him finishing on a defensive play. Seen him shadow guys and be able to stay in front of them all the way up until they reach the rim, then he just fades away/concedes. He's on a decline, but he's too athletic still to let that happen. I was glad Pop got in his ass (although he did it more for lack of rotation than one-on-one defnese)early and make him accountible. He finished better as the team in general picked it up on that end of the floor, but he has to play consistently. I saw effort from RMJ similar to what he displayed the frist half of the season last year tonight.

No doubt Jefferson has a long way to go, but I liked the way he responded. Right now it's about the coach setting expectations and holding him accountable to those expectations.

We all know he's still got the athleticism to perform...now it's just about getting him to do it on a consistent basis. And I think Pop is an excellent motivator.

[Xevious]

I'm fine if he starts and continues to work hard. And I have little doubt that RJ will be more effective as the season rolls on. What we really need to worry about is interior D. Tim looks about 50% and has NO help. I know Ratliff will see few minutes, but I don't know why he was benched for two straight games in which our opponent was outscoring us in the paint. At this point I'd even support starting Mahinmi just to mix things up and give Tim another big man to clog the paint with.

[peacemaker885]

I'm all for Bogans starting. Maybe our new Mario Elie?

[rayray2k8]

The spurs played their best when Bogans was on the floor. His defense might prove vital down the stretch.
This guy can play spurs basketball.

[024]

Spurs should start bogans just to mix things up. His defense is pretty good from what I saw but he needs to consistently make that 3.

[SpurNation]

This team's championship formula has always include a stopper, Bowen, in the lineup, even if it almost meant playing 4-on-5 offensively.

So, while Bogans might not be Bowen, the Spurs also didn't have an offensive player like Jefferson playing alongside Tim and Tony in the starting-5, while keeping Manu on the bench. Bogans is obviously a downgrade from Bowen but RJ's a big enough upgrade over Fin on both ends that it should be doable; I'm not sure they've got a better option currently.

I still have no clue why they haven't given Hairston a shot, given how well he played and the early stage of the season, but at least Bogans is a step in the right direction and a player that resembles Bowen on both ends; hopefully those spot-up 3's will start falling as he builds confidence through playing time.

If they've got Bonner on the floor, their perimeter defense needs to be stout.

If they've got Finley and Jefferson on the perimeter together, their interior defense has to be stout.


Yep.

And :lmao at
If they've got Finley and Bonner starting together, shoot me in the face.

[lennyalderette]

one of the things that really excited me today i hope pop rewards bogans for his D, and sits his lover finley for a bit. i thought i had seen it all, but then pop puts finley on a 7 footer!! oh man it was pretty funny, but back to my point we didnt let the team get 100 on us, i know we didnt play great but their were signs of what will be in the future

[SpursFan0728]

Bogans...Mason...w/e u name it.

All I know is that Finley needs to sit next to the towel boy. That old peice of crap is flatout done.

[Chieflion]

Bogans just has to start. I was very impressed with his defense. He set the tone for us and everyone started to hustle when he was on the court. He even knocked down a 3 and had a fast break layup. We had a good stretch when Bogans was on the court and all hell broke loose when Pop subbed in Finley when we were only down 5.

[Spurs Brazil]

More Bogans and less Finley is a good start.

Now Pop needs to take Bonner out for McDyess and give Malik a chance in place of Mason.

Finley and Mason are terrible on D

[Warlord23]

Since we're losing to the good teams anyway and Parker is going to be out, I'm all for giving Bogans and Hill a lot more minutes. Now if they can get Ian some burn at Bonner's expense, it'd make these losses somewhat tolerable

[Chieflion]

Bonner only played 12 minutes, Finley played 14 minutes. With that said, this is a good start, except Pop made Finley look worthless by playing him at PF. Pop going small again and again is what killed us. Sure, we need someone to play defense against Travis Outlaw, but Pop's rotations is just frustrating. The lead was cut to 9 with 15 seconds left in the 1st half. Pop then substituted the bigs and we have 5 wings on the court at the same time. This led to Roy having an open lane for a driving layup or a wide open jumper or a floater.

Towards the end of the game, the Spurs had momentum and were only down 5, Pop then substituted in Finley for Bogans. Bogans was doing well and Pop screwed the defense over and then Manu started to make stupid decisions. No one could make a shot except for Jefferson.

[manu_maniac]

I was pissed off at first that Bogans was even going to suit up instead of Hairston, but he earned it last night. He was only 1 of 2 Spurs with a positive +/-, but in all reality, the +/- system baffles me again because Findog was the other Spur. Now I want Bogans & Hairston to play over Finley, meaning that Finley would have to be inactive, which will unfortunately never happen with Pop.

[ceperez]

Bogans definitely earned that starting spot with the way he was able to cool Roy down. I hope he earns a finishing spot too though.

Unbelievable hype. He showed nothing but denial defense on some occasions. Manu had to take on Roy in the 4th quarter. That just tells you how much trust Pop has in Bogans defense.

The guy is just too small for his position as SG. He's also a liability in offense, he's like Finley, reliable spot up shooter but absolutely no ability to take it to the hoop. Did you not see the couple of times he drove it to the hoop????!

[ceperez]

I was pissed off at first that Bogans was even going to suit up instead of Hairston, but he earned it last night. He was only 1 of 2 Spurs with a positive +/-, but in all reality, the +/- system baffles me again because Findog was the other Spur. Now I want Bogans & Hairston to play over Finley, meaning that Finley would have to be inactive, which will unfortunately never happen with Pop.

Illogical!

Bogans good 'coz positive +/-
Finley not good even with better +/-

[Chieflion]

Unbelievable hype. He showed nothing but denial defense on some occasions. Manu had to take on Roy in the 4th quarter. That just tells you how much trust Pop has in Bogans defense.

The guy is just too small for his position as SG. He's also a liability in offense, he's like Finley, reliable spot up shooter but absolutely no ability to take it to the hoop. Did you not see the couple of times he drove it to the hoop????!
He actually scored. So you want Finley to start, huh? I could say the same for Mason. He is just a smaller Finley with better ballhandling ability.

[easy7]

I support Bogans or Mason starting over Finley. :hat

[Xevious]

The guy is just too small for his position as SG. He's also a liability in offense, he's like Finley, reliable spot up shooter but absolutely no ability to take it to the hoop. Did you not see the couple of times he drove it to the hoop????!
With Tony, Manu, and RJ (or any combination of the three) on the floor, that's all Bogans needs to be is a spot up shooter. If he can do the dirty work on D and shoot the ball at a respectable percentage, he more than earns his place.

Slightly off-topic... now that Tony's hurt and will be out for at least 2-3 games, Hairston will most likely suit up. This is his chance to earn minutes.

[ThaiFanofSpurs]

i'm a huge fan after tonight. time to give finley and bonner the axe.

a starting lineup of rjeff, tony, tim, mcdyess, and bogans would be straight.

I love this starting lineup. We can have a toughness in defense and high ability to score points in the first unit. The second unit will not be bad either when Hill and Manu subs for Tony and Bogan. Hopefully, Pop will read our comments and welcome them.

[Russ]

Bogans or Bruce.

Then see if there's still a chance to make a run at Camby.

[ceperez]

Bogans or Bruce.

Bruce even at 38.

Longer and quicker. Besides if all you do is denial defense, then Bruce is the guy.

[Yogurt210]

You guys HAVE to understand this.

Bogans does WELL when denying the ball.
But ONBALL defense, he is average.

[ceperez]

You guys HAVE to understand this.

Bogans does WELL when denying the ball.
But ONBALL defense, he is average.

Agree. Sad, all these fans grasping at straws trying to see something that's just not there.

I mean, Udoka would be just as good but stronger.

[peacemaker885]

You guys HAVE to understand this.

Bogans does WELL when denying the ball.
But ONBALL defense, he is average.


Agreed. I don't think anybody is saying he is Artest, Bowen, Battier. I think what people are saying is, and this is on his D *only*, would you start Finley or even Mason over him? Malik is another question.

[Chomag]

Pretty sad when we are getting so excited over a scrub that couldn't even be a starter on a bad team. However it still beats having Finely out there so I retract.

[ceperez]

Pretty sad when we are getting so excited over a scrub that couldn't even be a starter on a bad team. However it still beats having Finely out there so I retract.

That's how bad it's become in Spurs land! :-(

Here's the thing though, the Spurs are good because they work harder than everyone else. It's never been because they had more talented players than everyone else (that's how the Lakers win).

So at this early stage, if you need to put Bogans in the court to instill that mindset then that's a good thing. Unfortunately though, I would think that Bowen even at 38 could have done the same thing.

[tp2021]

Pretty sad when we are getting so excited over a scrub that couldn't even be a starter on a bad team. However it still beats having Finely out there so I retract.


That's how bad it's become in Spurs land! :-(


You must be joking

[TJastal]

I'm not seeing what all the fuss is about. Bogans did not impress me at all. He got abused at the defensive end by Brandon Roy repeatedly. At first he was doing a lot of fronting until Roy backdoor'd for an alley oop jam. After that he stayed between Roy and the basket and Roy blew by him easily several times, resulting in either fouls or easy layups.

[SenorSpur]

There's no doubt about it. Bogans has earned himself another start.

As for Finley, I'd rather see he and Hairston switch roles. Finley would look better in a sport coat and time, sitting behind the bench.

[Leetonidas]

Honestly, I support starting him. The Spurs need to be starting Blair or McDyess next to Duncan. That way, you have some inside presence with Tim and Antonio or rebounding if Blair is there and you have a wing defender. Plus with the starting unit, there is plenty of offense between Parker/Jefferson/Duncan.

[Morg1411]

More Bogans and less Finley is a good start.

Now Pop needs to take Bonner out for McDyess and give Malik a chance in place of Mason.

Finley and Mason are terrible on D

+Fity

Dyess likes to play more off the bench, but I think it would be good for him to continue to settle into the system if he starts. Have Blair and Bonner come off the bench for hustle and floor spacing.

[SamoanTD]

I like bogans he sticks to what he is suppose to do he's a hard nose dude

[MaNu4Tres]

More Bogans, More McDyess.

Less Bonner Less Finley/ Mason.

[td4mvp21]

I say insert him and McDyess into the starting lineup. Mason and Bogans should take nearly all of Finley's minutes. Bonner should never play.

[SamoanTD]

I want to see ratliff to dammit I think hes got plenty left in the tank

[ElNono]

I think defense is contagious... If you throw Bogans out there with Finley, Bonner and TP (who so far this season has had zero interest in playing the defensive side of the floor), then he fades into the general mediocrity. But when you have him out there with Hill, TD, and Gino you see good stuff. This is exactly why I'm not opposed to playing Bonner or Finley for short stretches, but they can't be playing both together and against the other team's best players.
If we want to set a defensive tone early, yeah, he should start.

[The Truth #6]

Bogans plays with intensity and isn't intimidated. And I agree that his attitude is contagious. He isn't Bowen, but Bowen isn't even Bowen either anymore. I think everyone should be happy that Bogans showed that he can contribute to the team. Also, people should be happy that Finley and Bonner played less than normal. Isn't that what everyone was crying about after last game.

These are positive signs.

More positive signs:

RJ responded very well to Pop's challenge. That was great to see.

Hill brought great intensity and played well in Tony's absence. Not incredible but he contributed in a positive way.

Dice showed positives with his excellent jump shooting. If Dice can make that shot, which was one step inside the 3, then to me that's good enough to bench Bonner, especially when he misses three straight 3s.
(In fact, that's about the leash I would give Bonner - if he bricks 3 straight open three point shots then he's probably not going to contribute for the game.)

With Parker out for a week, we just might see Hairston get some time. This could be his best chance to for the whole year to make a case for himself. Let's hope he doesn't dissapoint.

Yes, Pop's experimentation is odd with small ball, but he made great strides tonight in playing Bonner and Finley less. When did that happen all of last year?

Sucked that we lost but I thought this game was our best game of the season, at least after the first 3 quarters. We shot poorly tonight but the effort to win was there and if that continues then we are headed in the right direction. If just a few more 3s dropped last night then we could have had a different outcome.

[benefactor]

lmao at the usual suspects still hating on Bogans even after he plays well. Have we really fallen so far as to forget what Spurs basketball is even about?

[Blackjack]

I especially love how Bogans' defense was nothing more than average, so what's the big deal argument; as if average defense on the perimeter is something to scoff at when Jefferson, Finley and Mason are who you're relying on for your first line of defense..:lol

[TJastal]

lmao at the usual suspects still hating on Bogans even after he plays well. Have we really fallen so far as to forget what Spurs basketball is even about?

What is spurs' basketball about?

[benefactor]

What is spurs' basketball about?
Defense, you cockless wonder.

[TJastal]

Defense, you cockless wonder.

Oh, right.. defense.

That's why Pop starts Bonner & Finley and guys like you slobber on his cock endlessly.

[temujin]

Anybody should start over Finley and Bonner.

Those two are no NBA players anymore.

[SenorSpur]

I love players who don't play scared. Bogans, for whatever shortcomings he may have, doesn't play scared. He's intense and aggressive. That is the mindset and attitude the Spurs need to inject in this team.

Same for Hairston. Would love to see him get some burn at the expense of Finley.

[benefactor]

Oh, right.. defense.

That's why Pop starts Bonner & Finley and guys like you slobber on his cock endlessly.
I wasn't even talking about Pop, douche fluid. I was talking about people still hating on Bogans when he is easily our best perimeter defender.

[SenorSpur]

I wasn't even talking about Pop, douche fluid. I was talking about people still hating on Bogans when he is easily our best perimeter defender.

Absolutely. Until we can get a first-hand look at how much (or little) Hairston has progressed, Bogans is easily our best perimeter defender. Personally, I'd love for him to continue as starter.

Finley can rot on the bench, for all I give a goddamn.

[superbigtime]

Bogans looked his best as a Spur. But he is a scrub. Heck I'd rather have Ime.

[benefactor]

Bogans looked his best as a Spur. But he is a scrub. Heck I'd rather have Ime.
I'd rather have fans on Spurstalk that can put together a logical thought process, but that isn't going to happen either.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'd rather have fans on Spurstalk that can put together a logical thought process, but that isn't going to happen either.

At least we agree on something benefactor.

Totally with you on your opinion on Bogans.

Dude is our best perimeter defender and Spurs mantra has always been defense first. He played well last night and should keep seeing meaningful minutes.

Woudn't mind seeing Hairston get some run in favor of Mason or Finley at the moment.

[TJastal]

Did everyone just miss the part of the game where Brandon Roy backdoor'd his ass for a dunk then blew by him like his feet were stuck in quicksand?

I guess I was the only one who saw that part of the game..

[HarlemHeat37]

It gets old criticizing Finley, but he simply didn't even look like an NBA player last night..I don't mean that he looked like a STRUGGLING NBA player like Manu and Parker did, he simply didn't look like he belonged in the NBA..

He was barely able to move..he looked so helpless when he was posting up little Steve Blake, and then launched an air ball..Pop had him guarding Aldridge at one point, and he just did a simple spin move in the post and scored with ease(not necessarily Finley's fault, obviously he's at a disadvantage there)..then he tried to penetrate by Blake, lost the ball off his foot, luckily RJ recovered..he took an ill-advised 3 when we were down 7 and needed the momentum basket(Manu did as well on the same possession, but it was an open shot, as opposed to Finley's)..his only make last night was when he caught the ball and took a wide-open layup under the basket..

It's beating a dead horse, but it can't be said enough IMO..I appreciate what he's done, he's a class act, but he should be on the IL right now, especially since Mason is the exact same player, except younger..

[TJastal]

It gets old criticizing Finley, but he simply didn't even look like an NBA player last night..I don't mean that he looked like a STRUGGLING NBA player like Manu and Parker did, he simply didn't look like he belonged in the NBA..

He was barely able to move..he looked so helpless when he was posting up little Steve Blake, and then launched an air ball..Pop had him guarding Aldridge at one point, and he just did a simple spin move in the post and scored with ease(not necessarily Finley's fault, obviously he's at a disadvantage there)..then he tried to penetrate by Blake, lost the ball off his foot, luckily RJ recovered..he took an ill-advised 3 when we were down 7 and needed the momentum basket(Manu did as well on the same possession, but it was an open shot, as opposed to Finley's)..his only make last night was when he caught the ball and took a wide-open layup under the basket..

It's beating a dead horse, but it can't be said enough IMO..I appreciate what he's done, he's a class act, but he should be on the IL right now, especially since Mason is the exact same player, except younger..

It's not his fault, its the retard coach that thought he was still able to play a major starting role. He'd be fine as a role player off the bench. I don't know about anyone else, but it has always seemed to me that Finley plays better off the bench. Don't know why, maybe it puts a chip on his shoulder.

[SA210]

This team's championship formula has always include a stopper, Bowen, in the lineup, even if it almost meant playing 4-on-5 offensively.

So, while Bogans might not be Bowen, the Spurs also didn't have an offensive player like Jefferson playing alongside Tim and Tony in the starting-5, while keeping Manu on the bench. Bogans is obviously a downgrade from Bowen but RJ's a big enough upgrade over Fin on both ends that it should be doable; I'm not sure they've got a better option currently.

I still have no clue why they haven't given Hairston a shot, given how well he played and the early stage of the season, but at least Bogans is a step in the right direction and a player that resembles Bowen on both ends; hopefully those spot-up 3's will start falling as he builds confidence through playing time.

If they've got Bonner on the floor, their perimeter defense needs to be stout.

If they've got Finley and Jefferson on the perimeter together, their interior defense has to be stout.

If they've got Finley and Bonner starting together, shoot me in the face.

Awesome post :tu

I say bring Bruce back.

[SA210]

Bruce even at 38.

Longer and quicker. Besides if all you do is denial defense, then Bruce is the guy.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't remember the exact stats, but Finley shoots 2% lower from the field when he comes off the bench, and he shoots 1% lower from 3s off the bench..he also averages more turnovers off the bench, despite playing less minutes..

[SA210]

I want to see ratliff to dammit I think hes got plenty left in the tank

[benefactor]

Did everyone just miss the part of the game where Brandon Roy backdoor'd his ass for a dunk then blew by him like his feet were stuck in quicksand?

I guess I was the only one who saw that part of the game..
I guess Bowen never had a defensive lapse either.

Stop reaching.

[FkLA]

Why should Pop overplay and possibly burn out guys like Theo and Dice that could be very valuable in the playoffs? Just to please overdramatic fans that want to hang themselves after 5 games?

I could care less whether Bonner starts right now, if he's starting in May than Ill get pissed off. And how long have some of u drama queens been Spurs fans? This team starts off slow every single year.

[Chomag]

Why should Pop overplay and possibly burn out guys like Theo and Dice that could be very valuable in the playoffs? Just to please overdramatic fans that want to hang themselves after 5 games?

I could care less whether Bonner starts right now, if he's starting in May than Ill get pissed off.

I know! Because they have played so many minutes allready right! Shoot lets just sit TP,TD, and Manu along with them untill playoffs. That way they will be well rested becuase they are very valuable in the playoffs.

Why even have a regular season? Lets just skip the hard work and go directly to collect the prize :lobt2:

[Höfner]

Bringing Bowen out of retirement is the answer, but Bogans did hold his own.

[FkLA]

I know! Because they have played so many minutes allready right! Shoot lets just sit TP,TD, and Manu along with them untill playoffs. That way they will be well rested becuase they are very valuable in the playoffs.

Why even have a regular season? Lets just skip the hard work and go directly to collect the prize :lobt2:

Youre missing the point. There is no reason to bring in Theo (who has been very injury prone the last few years of his career) in to play significant minutes right now. I mean yea it might help us win now and ease some of you drama queens but his body will eventually fold. He's not up for the grind of the regular season anymore. If you want him for the long-haul he has to be a situational player.

Now Dice is up in age but I did expect and want him to get more minutes. I do think he is far better than Bonner, but again I have no problem with Bonner starting right now. Besides he has been battling flu-like symptoms so that and blow-outs (wins and losses) are likely contributing to his lack of minutes. I am 99.9% certain Dice will be the starter in the playoffs though or most likely even earlier than that.

[ElNono]

Did everyone just miss the part of the game where Brandon Roy backdoor'd his ass for a dunk then blew by him like his feet were stuck in quicksand?

I guess I was the only one who saw that part of the game..

Name me the best defender in the NBA ever that never screwed up or got dunked on...

I know that you can't.

He did a good job of denying the ball to Roy and making him work for his points. It's all you can ask for, and a lot more than what a guy like Finley is going to give you at this stage in his career.

[SA210]

Bringing Bowen out of retirement is the answer.

[androck]

Bogans had a productive game. In 24 minutes he had 5 points, 4 rebounds, 1 steal, and 1 assist on 2/4 shooting. He also had 3 fouls and 0 turnovers. Manu and Tim combined to shoot 9/28 from the field. That's what killed us. We can't shoot 38% from the field and expect to win against a playoff team. Also, Hill, Manu, and RJ combined for 14 personal fouls. The Blazers shot 90% from the free-throw line last night and that's basically giving them 25 points (90% x 28 FTA) for nothing.

[PDXSpursFan]

Bogans > Finley

[SenorSpur]

It's not his fault, its the retard coach that thought he was still able to play a major starting role. He'd be fine as a role player off the bench. I don't know about anyone else, but it has always seemed to me that Finley plays better off the bench. Don't know why, maybe it puts a chip on his shoulder.

Pop acts as though Fin is some sort of defensive stalwart. Why else would he have him spending time at the 4? He got abused versus the Mavs last spring and got abused by Aldridge last night.

[SenorSpur]

Youre missing the point. There is no reason to bring in Theo (who has been very injury prone the last few years of his career) in to play significant minutes right now. I mean yea it might help us win now and ease some of you drama queens but his body will eventually fold. He's not up for the grind of the regular season anymore. If you want him for the long-haul he has to be a situational player.

Agree in theory. All the more reason why I find it hard to fathom Pop not finding minutes for Ian. WHile he's not a shooter who can spread the floor, and you can argue Bonner's inconsistency in that area, I believe Ian would be a definite defensive, rebounding and post offensive upgrade to Bonner.

[SenorSpur]

This team's championship formula has always include a stopper, Bowen, in the lineup, even if it almost meant playing 4-on-5 offensively.

So, while Bogans might not be Bowen, the Spurs also didn't have an offensive player like Jefferson playing alongside Tim and Tony in the starting-5, while keeping Manu on the bench. Bogans is obviously a downgrade from Bowen but RJ's a big enough upgrade over Fin on both ends that it should be doable; I'm not sure they've got a better option currently.

I still have no clue why they haven't given Hairston a shot, given how well he played and the early stage of the season, but at least Bogans is a step in the right direction and a player that resembles Bowen on both ends; hopefully those spot-up 3's will start falling as he builds confidence through playing time.

If they've got Bonner on the floor, their perimeter defense needs to be stout.

If they've got Finley and Jefferson on the perimeter together, their interior defense has to be stout.

If they've got Finley and Bonner starting together, shoot me in the face.

Home run point! :toast

And yes, with Pop starting Bogans, he should now work Hairston into the mix. In that way, he can keep the same defensive intensity along with Hairston getting valuable time toward becoming a future rotation player. Again, I find it hard to believe that either Bogans or Hairston would fare worse than that one-trick pony - Michael Finley.

[SpurNation]

I don't remember the exact stats, but Finley shoots 2% lower from the field when he comes off the bench, and he shoots 1% lower from 3s off the bench..he also averages more turnovers off the bench, despite playing less minutes..

So theoritically...he would be worse than he already is as a starter?

[HarlemHeat37]

Finley is just bad in general at this point..he just isn't an NBA player right now, he's done..it disgusts me to have BOTH Finley and Mason in the rotation at the same time, it makes absolutely no sense from a basketball-standpoint in any way..

[TD 21]

Bogans has no business starting: he is the 5th best wing on the team and the worst active player on the roster arguably. All this is is an admission that Jefferson isn't an adequate lock down wing defender, even though Pop has generally credited his defensive effort and effectiveness thus far.

Pop is contradictory. At the beginning of training camp, he talked about this team needing to get back to being a top 3 defensive team. Then he proceeds to start the 2 worst defenders on the team, who both also don't rank amongst the top 8 players on the team. He also talked about needing to get Duncan more help on the front line, only Duncan is generally the only big playing when he's on the court.

First and foremost, this team is losing because they're not playing the right lineups. McDyess and Mason should be starting and Bonner and Finley should be out of the top eight and used sparingly. It's not hard. I don't see any other contender or credible team for that matter playing inexplicable lineup combination's. Just the overall amount of lineups in general is ridiculous; it's like Pop thinks he's coaching in the All-Star game every night. Teams can't build chemistry if they don't have defined roles. This team used to be the best in the league at that; now they're amongst the worst.

[Spursfan 87]

Theo or Dice
Duncan
RJ
Bogans
Parker

That should be the starting lineup, defensive minded line up to set the tempo of the game.

[Zero_Twilight]

Did everyone just miss the part of the game where Brandon Roy backdoor'd his ass for a dunk then blew by him like his feet were stuck in quicksand?

I guess I was the only one who saw that part of the game..

You must think you're pretty good at basketball, huh? :rolleyes I'm not sure if I can match your intelligence but here goes:

99% of the time a good offense will beat a good defense BUT....BUT not if there is help defense. You know, "team defense?" Or should I say "Spurs Defense?" This is a work in progress due to the team being new to everyone.

Playing 1 on 1, Bogans was as tough as they come but Brandon Roy is mentally tough so he's not going to show you any visible frustration. Mmmmmmmmk?

[EricB]

Bogans or Bruce.

Then see if there's still a chance to make a run at Camby.

Camby?

Yuck.

[The Truth #6]

Youre missing the point. There is no reason to bring in Theo (who has been very injury prone the last few years of his career) in to play significant minutes right now. I mean yea it might help us win now and ease some of you drama queens but his body will eventually fold. He's not up for the grind of the regular season anymore. If you want him for the long-haul he has to be a situational player.

Now Dice is up in age but I did expect and want him to get more minutes. I do think he is far better than Bonner, but again I have no problem with Bonner starting right now. Besides he has been battling flu-like symptoms so that and blow-outs (wins and losses) are likely contributing to his lack of minutes. I am 99.9% certain Dice will be the starter in the playoffs though or most likely even earlier than that.

So we should save Ratliff so we can wear down Duncan? Because that's what I saw last night with Tim having to do everything by himself with all that smallball.

[Austin_Toros]

Agree in theory. All the more reason why I find it hard to fathom Pop not finding minutes for Ian. WHile he's not a shooter who can spread the floor, and you can argue Bonner's inconsistency in that area, I believe Ian would be a definite defensive, rebounding and post offensive upgrade to Bonner.

good points.
although it may obliterate his confidence, shouldn't the spurs limit bonner's minutes to play mahinmi... it couldn't hurt, especially considering bonner's recent play.

[mingus]

i was for this when we got him.

Mason is the odd man out on this team. his threes are less important with the offense being able to come in a lot of diffierent directions, and when he's no hitting them, he is entirely ineffective and useless. to make things worse, he has a bad tendency to stall the offense. if you notice, he overdribbles and does this stupid thing where he shot fakes after he's dribbled and is basically stuck and has to give it away to someone else, and usually that player is in bad position to do anything.

he's a great spot up shooter. when in dire need of points or threes, the Spurs should call his number. but this team has too many offensive options to give it to him consistently. they've got to maximize their offense, and running plays through Finley or Mason isn't going to do that. Bogans is perfect because, like Bowen, he's a great defender and doesn't hurt the Spurs if he's not hitting shots. Mason doesn't need to be in there when the Spurs plenty of other guys who are more reliable scorers than he is (Duncan, Parker, Manu, RJ, McDyess, and perhaps even Hill and Blair ...)

i'd like to see Hill play more of the two as well. less Finley and Mason, please. it's clear they are a blow defensively to this team. Pop seriously has his head up his ass if he wants to get this team to play top-tier defense and he continues to play Bonner, Finley, and Mason a lot. maybe there are factors we don't know about his decision making, who knows?

it's sucks for RMJ. he's a class act and works his tail off, but he's not the answer for this team.

I want to see these guys get the backcourt minutes:

Parker/Hill
Bogans/Manu

the good thing about this rotation is there's really not much weakness defensively.

i'd also like to see Haislip and Hairston on the floor at some point just to see what they can do. i'm so fucking sick of Pop's love affair with Finley and Bonner. these guys clearly suck and aren't helping the team in any other areas if they're not hitting threes.

[hater]

bogans is a damn damn good defender. I would compare him with old bowen(not young bowen) plus he is faster and a lot more athletic.

I don't mind him getting minutes. and starting once in a while vs. a great player (roy/kobe/etc,etc)

[TimmehC]

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I'm a big fan of uglyball - it's been a pretty damn good prescription for the Spurs over the years.

[symple19]

If Bogans is what it takes to slow other teams down then I'm all for him eating minutes. So long as he doesn't do anything on the offensive end other than pass and take the rare open shot, i'm cool.

[Zero_Twilight]

i was for this when we got him.

Mason is the odd man out on this team. his threes are less important with the offense being able to come in a lot of diffierent directions, and when he's no hitting them, he is entirely ineffective and useless. to make things worse, he has a bad tendency to stall the offense. if you notice, he overdribbles and does this stupid thing where he shot fakes after he's dribbled and is basically stuck and has to give it away to someone else, and usually that player is in bad position to do anything.



it's sucks for RMJ. he's a class act and works his tail off, but he's not the answer for this team.



i'd also like to see Haislip and Hairston on the floor at some point just to see what they can do. i'm so fucking sick of Pop's love affair with Finley and Bonner. these guys clearly suck and aren't helping the team in any other areas if they're not hitting threes.

I agree with you on RMJ. That pump fake is not so much a fake but a hesitation. I think he doubts himself or the "situation" he's in, which are traits that no PG should have. Kinda reminds of Beno. RMJ is legit as a spot up shooter but like you said, this team is offensively stacked and all of a sudden 48 mins. isn't enough. I like RMJ; but as of now, I see him as a weak link especially against better teams. He did run a nice Pick and Roll with Dice for all it's worth, maybe he'll show us something.

I'd like to see Haislip and Hairston out there too. Not just for 1 or 2 games but for 6-7 just to see how well they adapt. I gather that Haislip can run, so it'd be interesting to see if he can play the 3 position and keep up with the "Lebron's and Artest's;" he's certainly strong enough. It would be nice to have another defesive specialist for the guys that Boagns can't guard. Please play this guy Pop.