Berlin Wall Blunder

[Crookshanks]

This is an editorial from the NY Post

Berlin Wall blunder

Last Updated: 8:14 AM, November 9, 2009

Posted: November 09, 2009

World leaders past and present will be in Berlin today for the 20th an niversary of the fall of communist repression's most visible symbol: the 112-mile concrete wall that split the city for more than a quarter-century.
Conspicuously absent: the president of the United States, Barack Obama.

Obama's folks say he's too busy to accept German President Angela Merkel's invitation to attend today's festivities.

It's pathetic that Obama won't be there -- and telling, as well.

After all, it was one of his own supposed heroes, President John F. Kennedy, who famously flew to Berlin in 1963 and denounced the wall as "an affront to history" when he memorably proclaimed to all the world: "Ich bin ein Berliner."

And it was another predecessor, Ronald Reagan, who even more famously stood before the heinous barrier and declared: "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

Less than two years later, the wall had tumbled.

But, then, Reagan -- like JFK -- viewed the Cold War as a defining battle between freedom and oppressive totalitarianism. And it was a war, he said, that the West, led by America, had to win.

For Reagan, that meant ongoing confrontation with what he rightly called "the Evil Empire." By openly declaring that America would never allow the Soviet bloc to triumph, he paved the way for the collapse not only of the Berlin Wall but of communism itself.

It was also, he understood, the triumph of American exceptionalism, leadership and strength.

All of which runs counter to Obama's view of America's global role -- and how to deal with adversaries.

For Obama, America is but one nation among many, no different -- or more exceptional -- than any other. Its record is one that, increasingly, he has felt compelled not to extol but to apologize for.

And, for this president, ideologies bent on America's destruction must be met not with resistance but with rhetoric, outreach and "understanding."

The Cold War, in this view, is an irrelevant historical relic -- an example of American paranoia and fear-mongering prolonging a conflict that could have been resolved with warm-and-fuzzy speechmaking and the soft-pedaling of political differences.

Gone, it seems, are the days when America championed freedom, led by presidents whose oratory was matched by commitment and determined action.

It's not only shameful -- but dangerous.
=============================

And this is one of the comments posted after the editorial. The guy is spot on!

"What would you expect from a US President who offered tepid support for Iranian protesters of a rigged election who carried signs written in English? Oops, I forgot, he was a training guy for ACORN. ACORN likes rigged elections. Well, what would you expect from a President who supported Zelaya in Honduras who tried to engineer his own reelection which would have violated the Honduran Constitution. Oops, I forgot, he doesn't like our Constitution either. Well, what would you expect from a President who has no criticism of the Marxist Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chaves. Oops, I forgot he is a Marxist.

Well, let's put it this way. President Obama is more associated with the people who built the Berlin wall than the people who tore it down."

[admiralsnackbar]

Prom the employers of Peter Vescey comes... more nuanced journalism!

[Shastafarian]

Wait, wasn't it the republicans who got mad when he went to Europe before? Now you want him to spend time doing things other than fixing the country? I like having it both ways too.

[Shastafarian]

This is an editorial from the NY Post


Hilarious combination btw.

[ChumpDumper]

Petty.

[PixelPusher]

Wait, wasn't it the republicans who got mad when he went to Europe before? Now you want him to spend time doing things other than fixing the country? I like having it both ways too.



Obama goes to Berlin, AGAIN!

Last Updated: 8:14 AM, November 9, 2009

Posted: November 09, 2009

President Barack Obama will be traveling to Berlin, Germany to make yet another speech in front of a mass of foreigners. You know who also like to give multiple speeches to crowds of Berliners? Hitler.

[Shastafarian]

:lmao

[admiralsnackbar]

Too funny.

[panic giraffe]

just can't win the eyes of those that hate him, huh?

[Spurminator]

It's not only shameful -- but dangerous.

:lol

[baseline bum]

Shame on you, DarrinS, for getting scooped on this article.

[panic giraffe]

i keep forgetting, is he a marxist or facist? it gets confusing when you guys try to mix two completely different ideologies...

[DarrinS]

Meh, the 20th anniversary of the Berlin wall falling and the end of the Cold War doesn't require the Messiah's presence. Now, if an Olympic bid were on the line....

[panic giraffe]

Meh, the 20th anniversary of the Berlin wall falling and the end of the Cold War doesn't require the Messiah's presence. Now, if an Olympic bid were on the line....

which one of those two would have the possibility of bringing money to his country?

seriously would you guys be just as offended if forgot to go to another foreign country's Independence/reunification day?

[spursncowboys]

Meh, the 20th anniversary of the Berlin wall falling and the end of the Cold War doesn't require the Messiah's presence. Now, if an Olympic bid were on the line....
Or a political fundraiser in SF

[spursncowboys]

Does Obama have a plan for the soldiers in Afghanistan. I already know his run and leave a vaccuum in Iraq.

[TheProfessor]

There's so much hypocrisy in the initial post, I wouldn't know where to begin.

[Crookshanks]

which one of those two would have the possibility of bringing money to his country?

seriously would you guys be just as offended if forgot to go to another foreign country's Independence/reunification day?
The fall of the Berlin Wall was far more than an Independence Day. Reagan stared evil in the eye and didn't blink. The fall of the wall signaled the end of Soviet dominance - and as a result, millions and millions of people were able to live free from Communist oppression.

[boutons_deux]

"Reagan stared evil in the eye"

St Ronnie didn't do shit, and it's to your typical discredit that you think he did.

You believe Repug press releases and revisionist Repug history with the same naivete with which you read the Bible.

[panic giraffe]

The fall of the Berlin Wall was far more than an Independence Day. Reagan stared evil in the eye and didn't blink. The fall of the wall signaled the end of Soviet dominance - and as a result, millions and millions of people were able to live free from Communist oppression.

great.

good for them, hooary for germany.

now what does this have to do w/the US now?
i could understand if we didn't have landmark lege moving through washington, but the presidents work is set out for him right now, to take a break to celebrate german reunification would be a mistake. send sec clinton or vp biden and call it a day.

is a president going to have to fly into baghdad 20 years from the day saddam fell to comemorate that as well?

why don't we go to france to celebrate their revolution too?

and if i read my history book correct, it had less to do w/the gipper staring "evil in the eye" then moscow going bankrupt, hard to keep up with satellites when you can't feed your own people, right?

[ElNono]

great.

good for them, hooary for germany.

now what does this have to do w/the US now?


But Reagan stared evil in the eye!!!
What you don't get?

/sarcasm

[Wild Cobra]

The fall of the Berlin Wall was far more than an Independence Day. Reagan stared evil in the eye and didn't blink. The fall of the wall signaled the end of Soviet dominance - and as a result, millions and millions of people were able to live free from Communist oppression.

No Shit.

I was in Germany when this happened. It was nothing short but a miracle for the people, to be able to easily visit long lost family on the other side.

I hope Obama had something life threatening, or....

My God...

How could he miss something so important to one of our best allies?

[DarrinS]

Somehow, "The One" managed to make this day about him:




Few would have foreseen … that a united Germany would be led by a woman from Brandenburg or that their American ally would be led by a man of African descent. But human destiny is what human beings make of it.

[panic giraffe]

Somehow, "The One" managed to make this day about him:

i think you have a strange obsession with him.......

enough of that stupid song already

[Crookshanks]

Somehow, "The One" managed to make this day about him:

Yeah - like he had anything to do with it. In fact, if he'd been President at that time, the Wall would've never come down. But Obama can't give a speech without making it somehow about him. Narcissist!

[ChumpDumper]

So now we like Germany with its universal health care system and 88% of its population covered by a public option.

:lol

[Shastafarian]

This thread is gold. You've got crookshanks, who doesn't know any better than what she reads in the NY Post or what she hears on Talk Radio. And you also have DarrinS who definitely does know better but chooses to be a hypocrite. It's cute.

[hope4dopes]

Personally I'm quite glad he didn't show up. It would have demeaned the occasion to have that narssistic jug eared dope chasing cameras. The dignity of the occasion was beyond him.Thank God.

[clambake]

it's not an event without him. it's too bad.

[exstatic]

If he went, you fuckers would be complaining that he wasn't working on U.S. problems.

Fuck off.

[panic giraffe]

If he went, you fuckers would be complaining that he wasn't working on U.S. problems.

Fuck off.

exactly, no win for the guy.

sad really...didn't most dems give bush the benefit of the doubt until he proved he was a fuck up? i very clearly remember a soaring aproval rating following 9/11, it wasn't til iraq that all the attacks came out.

but on the other end of the coin, they will use whatever means to discredit him before he even has the chance to prove either good or bad.

hacks.

[Spawn]

Oh this thread is shaping up nicely. What makes some of you people think that the Germans give a shit whether or not Obama shows up? I swear this is just getting stupid.

[Ignignokt]

Why didn't he show up? It's an important milestone that freed lots of Europe.

[Cry Havoc]

Why didn't he show up? It's an important milestone that freed lots of Europe.

And if he doesn't show up, obviously the Berlin Wall will be spontaneously resurrected.

I can only imagine the posts in this forum if he did choose to go to Germany.

"Hussein chooses to leave our country in crisis just to go to a party and show his face!" - Crookshanks

"Obama puts going to Germany over taking care of legislation in the U.S. on his list of priorities. I expected as much from a democrat." - Wild Cobra

"Why does our president care more about Europe than the U.S.!?" - Darrin

[hope4dopes]

Well from this thread it seems the dignity of the occasion is beyond his supporters as well.

[TheProfessor]

Well from this thread it seems the dignity of the occasion is beyond his supporters as well.

If he went, you fuckers would be complaining that he wasn't working on U.S. problems.

Fuck off.

[Cry Havoc]

Well from this thread it seems the dignity of the occasion is beyond his supporters as well.

Oh yes, and I forgot hope's obvious chiming in.

ME THINK OBAMA BAD DO BAD MAN BAD EW BAD. - hope4dopes

[Winehole23]

I heard an interesting interview on NPR with the chief of the National Security Archive today. Apparently, Margaret Thatcher was horrified at the prospect of a reunified Germany, and asked Gorbachev to put the brakes on it.

Somewhat more distantly, GHWB wondered in his diary if there wasn't some way to slow the process down.

[spurms]

An article from the New Zionist Post? The same newspaper that posted lies like Ahmadinejad calls for the destruction of Israel when the Persian translation actually meant he called for the right's of Palestinians to return to their homeland?, then having the misquote made into facts in all major networks around the United States? How could these cons get it so wrong? Are they mad cause Obama is dithering over attacking Iran, because Iran can virtually fuck up his missions in Afghanistan and Iraq? Looks like American interests come secondary to Israel.

[Winehole23]

Persian translation actually meant he called for the right's of Palestinians to return to their homelandNot exactly.


So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in Farsi:
"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."



That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word "regime." pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).


So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want "wiped from the map"? The answer is: nothing. That's because the word "map" was never used. The Persian word for map, "nagsheh" is not contained anywhere in his original Farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase "wipe out" ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran's president threatened to "wipe Israel off the map." despite never having uttered the words "map." "wipe out" or even "Israel."

The full quote translated directly to English:


"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."


Word by word translation:


Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from.)
then having the misquote made into facts in all major networks around the United States? How could these cons get it so wrong?They had help from the Iranians themselves:


The inflammatory "wiped off the map" quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al-Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.



Amid heated wrangling over Iran's nuclear program, and months of continuous, unfounded accusations against Iran in an attempt to rally support for preemptive strikes against the country, the imperialists had just been handed the perfect raison d'être to invade. To the war hawks, it was a gift from the skies.


It should be noted that in other references to the conference, the IRNA's translation changed. For instance, "map" was replaced with "earth." In some articles it was "The Qods occupier regime should be eliminated from the surface of earth." or the similar "The Qods occupyingregimemust be eliminated from the surface of earth." The inconsistency of the IRNA's translation should be evidence enough of the unreliability of the source, particularly when transcribing their news from Farsi into the English language.
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

[spurms]

Not exactly.
They had help from the Iranians themselves:

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025

That's a whole shit lot of spin offs to come to a conclusion that the Iranian did not call for the destruction of the state of Israel but the rights for Paestinians to return to their holy land, good find.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Now we're all about Europe...It's hard to keep with the dead enders flip flopping all of the time. We like Europe and then we don't and then we do.....

:rolleyes

[spurms]

Al-Jazeera was nothing more than a proxy media bribed by Zionist interests, pretty self evident when it comes to the rest of the news network, BBC, Times etc.

[Winehole23]

The IRNA is responsible for the mistranslation.

[Winehole23]

Oh, BTW, nice hijack spurms. :tu

[Winehole23]

Didn't you notice this thread has nothing to do with your idee fixe about the Zionist media?

[spurms]

The IRNA is responsible for the mistranslation.

Research the history of IRNA where is it's headquarters based and the history of Arabs hatred towards that Network, and get back to me, don't take my word for it. It's an educational process in self sufficiency.

[Winehole23]

I'm familiar with Arab mistrust of the Persians. It doesn't explain why the IRNA's own translation of Ahmandinejad's words into English was so misleading. The Western and Arab media are on the hook for failing to cross-check it, but not for the mistranslation itself.

[spurms]

"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."

"It should be noted that in other references to the conference, the IRNA's translation changed. For instance, "map" was replaced with "earth." In some articles it was "The Qods occupier regime should be eliminated from the surface of earth." or the similar "The Qods occupyingregimemust be eliminated from the surface of earth." The inconsistency of the IRNA's translation should be evidence enough of the unreliability of the source, particularly when transcribing their news from Farsi into the English language. "

i believe these quotes are pretty clear in itself, self explanatory?

[Winehole23]

Yes, it is. The IRNA is an unreliable source. If the Iranian state media didn't want the President to be misunderstood, they should have taken more care with the translation.

[lefty]

I actually touched a piece of Berlin Wall

:tu

[Cry Havoc]

I actually touched a piece of Berlin Wall

:tu

I own a piece. It came with my World in Conflict Collector's Edition PC game. Awesome.