View Full Version : This completely sums up what is currently wrong with the Hornets ...
BRHornet45
11-09-2009, 07:29 PM
sons I saw this post from a member on one of the Hornets boards and it is the best explanation I have seen about our current struggles. Very accurate. It looks like the person who posted this has some pretty strong ties inside the Hornets organization and is very well educated on the issues that the public doesn't really see. Regardless is you like or hate the Hornets (ghazi), it is worth the read ....
"Fire Byron Scott!" "Trade West!" "Fire Bower!" "Play the rookies!''
All of these are 'solutions' offered by most Hornets fans on how to fix the Hornets problems but they are over simplifications at best. Why? The Hornets problems start at the very top, not with Scott or Bower or any one player on our roster. They start up top and that means basketball operations and the lack of commitment that this part of the Hornets org. receives.
The Hornets basketball operations as it stands now is literally a skeleton crew. Even when this part of the org. had a full staff they were ineffective and it's only going to get worse as the Hornets had to slash some jobs from the payroll. The Hornets have a whopping two scouts on the pay roll as of 11/8/09. Yes, two scouts who are in charge of scouting and player evaulation. Even if these two were top of the line, incredible scouts(they're not) they would be overwhelmed by the workload that is meant for 6-8 people not two. Because of this the Hornets have no presence in Europe, no presence in the D-league, and a very limited presence in the U.S collegiate system. The Hornets chances of finding the next Peja or Dirk in Europe is non-existant, and it's not only limited to Europe either. The Hornets won't be able to find any big time players in South America, China, etc. So as the talent pool as grown the Hornets personnel to look at that talent has shrunken.
Why is the pay roll of basketball ops so barren? The Hornets have a big lack of commitment to the basketball side of their org. They've always had a bloated corporate operations and a smaller 'mom and pop shop' like basketball operations. The problem has exacerbated as the Hornets have had to save money and slash some positions. They've had to undertake the philosophy of just looking at managing the roster rather than being aggresive and finding the quality young players in FA and the draft that only good scouting can get you. This is a big reason why the Hornets have had to overpay for older has beens, they've been inept at finding 'steals' in the draft and FA, thus leading to overpaying for free agents and to our current predicament under the luxury tax.
Another thing that has been hampered by our situation with basketball OPs has been assistant coaching. The Hornets have been unable to surround Byron Scott with quality assistant coaches. People like to pin all of our problems in developing young players on Scott but that's unfair. Look at Los Angeles, it wasn't Phil Jackson who mentored Bynum into the player he was today, it was Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Or for an example closer to home, think back to Jamaal Magloire's 1st two years as a New Orleans Hornet. He was a top flight center who was developing under assistant Brian Hill, not Paul Silas. The Hornets don't have the type of coaches who can take young players aside each day and develop them into big time contributors down the road. This is a direct result of a basketball ops. that is basically a headless chicken.
Where are we headed?
To be quite frank, disaster. I've heard whispers that Chris Paul is extremely frustrated and is looking around at sucessful NBA organizations and comparing them to the Hornets. He knows that our management as it stands now is a disaster. You may think you know Chris Paul and that he'd never demand a trade of anything of the sort, but the truth is you or I don't. He seems to be a ticking time bomb and that leads towards a trade demand or him leaving at the end of his current contract.
The roster this year is only fit to compete for a 7th/8th seed and that may be generous as I watch this game now. It won't get any better next year even though Scott will be gone as the Hornets will still be handcuffed with bad contracts. The roster won't be changed much at all. Yes, the Hornets will have a ton of expirings in two years but it's naive at best to trust that this FO will hit on those expirings and second, it's a very real possibility that Chris Paul may be on the outs with the Hornets by then, if not already gone.
NIH, what do we do? WHAT DO WE DO?
We let the organization know that we see deeper than Scott, Bower, Peja's contract, etc. We do this by raising the level of talk here, by calling into sports radio, editorials, whatever. We let them know that we won't fall for the simple scapegoat of Byron Scott. Will it change things? I don't know, but it's our best shot at having any impact on the current situation.
What needs to happen for any of this to truly change?
The Hornets need to change hands, I hope Shinn fights well and beats this cancer, but I don't think this franchise will progress any further than the 2nd round under him. Unlike most owners, his bottomline depends on the Hornets. They're not simply a hobby to him, they're what puts bread on his table. He's in it 100% to make money all the while trying to win a title. I'm not doubting at all that his ultimate goal is an NBA Championship, I just doubt that he can acheive that goal as owner. He can't absorb the losses that other owners can to truly compete for a title year in and out. I'd rather minority owner Gary Chouest to buy out Shinn and give this team a facelift. He has the money to have the Hornets as a hobby and he'll have the opportunity to give this franchise a face lift. How? By putting a true basketball man in charge and getting out of his way, this will ensure a total commitment to basketball and will give New Orleans a better shot at its 1st NBA Title."
Culburn369
11-09-2009, 07:41 PM
Sounds like Red.
Allanon
11-09-2009, 07:42 PM
It's always easy to blame the coach but it's rarely the coach that is the problem.
Say what you will about Mark Cuban's antics but he's the dream owner for any team. He's rich; likes to spend and actually watches the games. Jerry Buss takes it as a personal offense that the Celtics beat his Lakers in '08.
Lame duck owners like Donald Sterling and George Shinn are into it for the money, not for the love of the game. They make their token arena appearances and then go back to real life.
How can you expect the Players to feel excited when the owner doesn't care outside of how it affects his return?
BRHornet45
11-09-2009, 07:48 PM
It's always easy to blame the coach but it's rarely the coach that is the problem.
Say what you will about Mark Cuban's antics but he's the dream owner for any team. He's rich; likes to spend and actually watches the games. Jerry Buss takes it as a personal offense that the Celtics beat his Lakers in '08.
Lame duck owners like Donald Sterling and George Shinn are into it for the money, not for the love of the game. They make their token arena appearances and then go back to real life.
How can you expect the Players to feel excited when the owner doesn't care outside of how it affects his return?
Shinn cares about winning, he just doesn't know when to get out of the way. Remember even back in the Charlotte days Michael Jordan almost bought a 50% share of the team ... but it was Shinn who blocked that because he didn't want to give Jordan FULL control of basketball operations. Jordan wanted basketball operations and keep Shinn on the business operations ... but Shinn wouldn't give in.
redzero
11-09-2009, 07:57 PM
Mark Cuban should buy-out the Hornets.
LakeShow
11-09-2009, 08:41 PM
sons I saw this post from a member on one of the Hornets boards and it is the best explanation I have seen about our current struggles. Very accurate. It looks like the person who posted this has some pretty strong ties inside the Hornets organization and is very well educated on the issues that the public doesn't really see. Regardless is you like or hate the Hornets (ghazi), it is worth the read ....
"Fire Byron Scott!" "Trade West!" "Fire Bower!" "Play the rookies!''
All of these are 'solutions' offered by most Hornets fans on how to fix the Hornets problems but they are over simplifications at best. Why? The Hornets problems start at the very top, not with Scott or Bower or any one player on our roster. They start up top and that means basketball operations and the lack of commitment that this part of the Hornets org. receives.
The Hornets basketball operations as it stands now is literally a skeleton crew. Even when this part of the org. had a full staff they were ineffective and it's only going to get worse as the Hornets had to slash some jobs from the payroll. The Hornets have a whopping two scouts on the pay roll as of 11/8/09. Yes, two scouts who are in charge of scouting and player evaulation. Even if these two were top of the line, incredible scouts(they're not) they would be overwhelmed by the workload that is meant for 6-8 people not two. Because of this the Hornets have no presence in Europe, no presence in the D-league, and a very limited presence in the U.S collegiate system. The Hornets chances of finding the next Peja or Dirk in Europe is non-existant, and it's not only limited to Europe either. The Hornets won't be able to find any big time players in South America, China, etc. So as the talent pool as grown the Hornets personnel to look at that talent has shrunken.
Why is the pay roll of basketball ops so barren? The Hornets have a big lack of commitment to the basketball side of their org. They've always had a bloated corporate operations and a smaller 'mom and pop shop' like basketball operations. The problem has exacerbated as the Hornets have had to save money and slash some positions. They've had to undertake the philosophy of just looking at managing the roster rather than being aggresive and finding the quality young players in FA and the draft that only good scouting can get you. This is a big reason why the Hornets have had to overpay for older has beens, they've been inept at finding 'steals' in the draft and FA, thus leading to overpaying for free agents and to our current predicament under the luxury tax.
Another thing that has been hampered by our situation with basketball OPs has been assistant coaching. The Hornets have been unable to surround Byron Scott with quality assistant coaches. People like to pin all of our problems in developing young players on Scott but that's unfair. Look at Los Angeles, it wasn't Phil Jackson who mentored Bynum into the player he was today, it was Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Or for an example closer to home, think back to Jamaal Magloire's 1st two years as a New Orleans Hornet. He was a top flight center who was developing under assistant Brian Hill, not Paul Silas. The Hornets don't have the type of coaches who can take young players aside each day and develop them into big time contributors down the road. This is a direct result of a basketball ops. that is basically a headless chicken.
Where are we headed?
To be quite frank, disaster. I've heard whispers that Chris Paul is extremely frustrated and is looking around at sucessful NBA organizations and comparing them to the Hornets. He knows that our management as it stands now is a disaster. You may think you know Chris Paul and that he'd never demand a trade of anything of the sort, but the truth is you or I don't. He seems to be a ticking time bomb and that leads towards a trade demand or him leaving at the end of his current contract.
The roster this year is only fit to compete for a 7th/8th seed and that may be generous as I watch this game now. It won't get any better next year even though Scott will be gone as the Hornets will still be handcuffed with bad contracts. The roster won't be changed much at all. Yes, the Hornets will have a ton of expirings in two years but it's naive at best to trust that this FO will hit on those expirings and second, it's a very real possibility that Chris Paul may be on the outs with the Hornets by then, if not already gone.
NIH, what do we do? WHAT DO WE DO?
We let the organization know that we see deeper than Scott, Bower, Peja's contract, etc. We do this by raising the level of talk here, by calling into sports radio, editorials, whatever. We let them know that we won't fall for the simple scapegoat of Byron Scott. Will it change things? I don't know, but it's our best shot at having any impact on the current situation.
What needs to happen for any of this to truly change?
The Hornets need to change hands, I hope Shinn fights well and beats this cancer, but I don't think this franchise will progress any further than the 2nd round under him. Unlike most owners, his bottomline depends on the Hornets. They're not simply a hobby to him, they're what puts bread on his table. He's in it 100% to make money all the while trying to win a title. I'm not doubting at all that his ultimate goal is an NBA Championship, I just doubt that he can acheive that goal as owner. He can't absorb the losses that other owners can to truly compete for a title year in and out. I'd rather minority owner Gary Chouest to buy out Shinn and give this team a facelift. He has the money to have the Hornets as a hobby and he'll have the opportunity to give this franchise a face lift. How? By putting a true basketball man in charge and getting out of his way, this will ensure a total commitment to basketball and will give New Orleans a better shot at its 1st NBA Title."
Good post! :toast
I don't know much about the hornets and their organization but I can tell you what I saw last night. As much as I like Bryon Scott and I do not think he is a bad coach at all in fact I hope he takes over for Phil Jackson when he retires. He has lost the Hornets. They played with no purpose last night. They are no longer responding to him. I wish he would quit rather than get fired because he doesn't deserve to be the scape goat. Its not really any other options right now. He has to go.
Maybe Phil can hire him as an assistant and groom him for the position. :)
BRHornet45
11-09-2009, 08:48 PM
Good post! :toast
I don't know much about the hornets and their organization but I can tell you what I saw last night. As much as I like Bryon Scott and I do not think he is a bad coach at all in fact I hope he takes over for Phil Jackson when he retires. He has lost the Hornets. They played with no purpose last night. They are no longer responding to him. I wish he would quit rather than get fired because he doesn't deserve to be the scape goat. Its not really any other options right now. He has to go.
Maybe Phil can hire him as an assistant and groom him for the position. :)
Scott isn't the problem, but he is a problem. good riddance when he does go.
badfish22
11-09-2009, 08:48 PM
Yeah, but Cuban should learn to sit upstairs, instead of hovering over his team like a straw-boss.
Hes a big fan, he likes sitting front row (he also likes being on camera probably)
But he keeps all the big decisions to Rick Carisle and Donnie Nelson. He doesnt control the team really.
BRHornet45
11-09-2009, 08:53 PM
Cuban is an excellent owner. annoying at times with his childish antics, but overall a great owner and I wish there were more out there like him.
He is a legit fan of his team, not just the dollars they bring in. He completely turned a bullshit franchise into a yearly playoff competitive team. Now if only he can get them out of their choking phase ...
Xylus
11-09-2009, 08:54 PM
There are times when Cuban needs to take a step back, or keep his mouth shut. But overall, I too think he's a great owner.
An Unbiased Fan
11-09-2009, 08:55 PM
The Hornets have talent, but they need to stop the 1 on 5 nonsense and utilize everyone on the floor. Chris Paul needs to stop doing the dribble, dribble, and dribble some more offense. Rondo was right.
Indazone
11-09-2009, 09:20 PM
This is a well known fact with the Rockets organization. While the Rockets have had record ticket sales in spite of the bad economy, the Hornets have taken a bath. In fact Morey had stated earlier that as the Hornets slashed payroll and strived to get rid of bloated salaries that the Rockets and other teams might raid the Hornets for key players.
djohn2oo8
11-09-2009, 09:22 PM
sons, if the Hornets lose to the Clippers tonight, it will get ugly in here
Culburn369
11-09-2009, 09:24 PM
They lost last night in L.A., and they were fine.
iggypop123
11-09-2009, 09:28 PM
the reason they sucked. peja's stupid contract. im sure they would have prefered to give it to antother idiot but productive one maggette
We would be happy to take ALL those bad contracts off your hands, even send over some young cheap up and comers.
redzero
11-09-2009, 09:57 PM
This is a well known fact with the Rockets organization. While the Rockets have had record ticket sales in spite of the bad economy, the Hornets have taken a bath. In fact Morey had stated earlier that as the Hornets slashed payroll and strived to get rid of bloated salaries that the Rockets and other teams might raid the Hornets for key players.
Son, I would gladly give up West for Knee Mac only if Peja was included.
Culburn369
11-09-2009, 10:07 PM
Uh, Red, are you going to be able to get it done Wednesday nite?
BRHornet45
11-09-2009, 10:09 PM
This is a well known fact with the Rockets organization. While the Rockets have had record ticket sales in spite of the bad economy, the Hornets have taken a bath. In fact Morey had stated earlier that as the Hornets slashed payroll and strived to get rid of bloated salaries that the Rockets and other teams might raid the Hornets for key players.
son our ticket sales have been more than fine. we had record ticket sales for our franchise just last season and averaged nearly a sellout every single game last year. corporate sponsorship is up and all of the luxury suites have been sold out all year long for 2 years. ticket sales are not out problem. our problem is George Shinn is in the NBA pretty much strictly to make money. he is the only owner in the NBA who relies solely on his team for ALL of his personal income. the money comes first, winning second.
redzero
11-09-2009, 10:11 PM
son our ticket sales have been more than fine. we had record ticket sales for our franchise just last season and averaged nearly a sellout every single game last year. corporate sponsorship is up and all of the luxury suites have been sold out all year long for 2 years. ticket sales are not out problem. our problem is George Shinn is in the NBA pretty much strictly to make money. he is the only owner in the NBA who relies solely on his team for ALL of his personal income. the money comes first, winning second.
It's funny that people keep bringing up arena turnout. Do they ever listen?
BRHornet45
11-09-2009, 10:25 PM
It's funny that people keep bringing up arena turnout. Do they ever listen?
son its not really their fault. its just ignorance mainly because of what they see on TV. yes the Hornets had attendance issues when coming back from Katrina, but times have changed drastically over the last 3 years. the media hyped all over the Hornets and the city for it, but when attendance picked back up and the fan base steadily kept growing over the last 3 years ... the media will rarely talk about it. so you can't really blame people for still harping about attendance, they don't know any better ... but yea, I wish they would at least do their homework first before rambling off ignorant statements.
we are the smallest market team in the NBA and still dealing with some of the aftermaths of Katrina. not to mention sharing the city with an NFL franchise that is considered much more "important" and has been established here for 40+ years ... with all of that said, averaging 17,000 per game last season with nearly 99% of the arena full ... I think we did a damn good job.
Its funny because Indianapolis is a much larger city (and metro area) than us and they are in the same boat with having two professional sports franchises in the Colts and Pacers ... yet no one gives them a hard time about their PATHETIC attendance at Pacers games. over the last 4 years or so they have only averaged like 12,000-14,000 per game. where is the fuss about them?
The TroutBum
11-09-2009, 11:02 PM
LOL at the butt-fucking Hornets. Blame everyone BUT the so called 'leader' of the team. Classic. The problem with this shit assed team is the PG, plain and simple. Learn how to lead a team, you helicoptering, faggot flopping, shit dick.
sribb43
11-09-2009, 11:10 PM
LOL at the butt-fucking Hornets. Blame everyone BUT the so called 'leader' of the team. Classic. The problem with this shit assed team is the PG, plain and simple. Learn how to lead a team, you helicoptering, faggot flopping, shit dick.
Is a Jazz fan really bashing the hornets? :lol
iggypop123
11-09-2009, 11:10 PM
hey paul have fun with your contract. 2012. how stupid should have done the lebron wade plan.
BRHornet45
11-09-2009, 11:20 PM
hey paul have fun with your contract. 2012. how stupid should have done the lebron wade plan.
lol son he did do the Lebron/Wade plan ... after his 3rd year in the NBA, he signed a new 3 year contract that includes a 4th year option. That contract kicked in after his first 4 seasons rookie contract expired (this year). he will be a free agent after 7 seasons in the NBA ... exactly like Lebron and Wade.
2005-06 to 2008-09 = Rookie Contract
2009-10 to 2011-12 + 2012-13 option = New Contract ... he of course will opt out of the contract after the 3rd year (2011-12) for a new one.
Son, I would gladly give up West for Knee Mac only if Peja was included.
We dont want West, theres only one player on the Hornets we want.
BRHornet45
11-09-2009, 11:23 PM
We dont want West, theres only one player on the Hornets we want.
no son you can't have Peja ... leave us alone about that shit
redzero
11-09-2009, 11:31 PM
no son you can't have Peja ... leave us alone about that shit
Dude must be crazy if he thinks he can just get our Serbian Assassin for nothing.
no son you can't have Peja ... leave us alone about that shit
I dont know why you are fighting this, I really don't. We would welcome you into our fan base. We hate the Mavs too and thier fans. It would be a seemless transition.
When you hate everyone on your team but Paul, your a CP3 fan, not a Hornets fan. Just succumb already :toast
BRHornet45
11-09-2009, 11:35 PM
I dont know why you are fighting this, I really don't. We would welcome you into our fan base. We hate the Mavs too and thier fans. It would be a seemless transition.
When you hate everyone on your team but Paul, your a CP3 fan, not a Hornets fan. Just succumb already :toast
son there is only one problem though ... I don't speak Spanish. it would not be an easy transition!
redzero
11-09-2009, 11:36 PM
Paul is down. I hope it's not serious, and that he'll be back at the start of next half.
son there is only one problem though ... I don't speak Spanish. it would not be an easy transition!
We arent San Antonio!
DJ Mbenga
11-09-2009, 11:54 PM
sons peja and west are pieces of shit. i dominated those guys this week.
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