Any opinions on the Defense...[or the lack there of]

[BadOne]

I know Tim wasn't in the paint defending, so I can't get too upset, but at this pace, Dallas, and Phoenix can torch us up with ease. Its comforting to know that we can keep pace on offense, but its not the Spurs basketball we're used to.

Any thoughts on the D tonight?

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't have any thoughts on tonight's defense, since we were without our only significant defender..

Our defense in general obviously needs A LOT of work, and everybody here agrees with that..Bogans' playing time is a step in the right direction, so we're seeing some progress..McDyess is progressing game-by-game, so that will make a difference as well..

The defense was also looking a lot better down the stretch against Portland, which was another good sign..

[ShoogarBear]

Tim and McDyess don't close out on three-point shooters. The Spurs were exceptionally lazy at that tonight.

[rayray2k8]

The defense will improve, but at least we know that the offense is there... I think team chemistry and how fast they
gel together is more important at this point.
As soon everyone gets comfortable with each other and know their spots, the defense will improve.

[HarlemHeat37]

Well a couple of notable missed assignments..

Mason and Bonner completely fucked up the pick and roll D on Jack on the last shot of the 1st quarter..he fumbled the ball and still got a great look..

Bonner helping on Bosh, leaving Bargnani wide open for 3 with nobody closing out at all..

Finley was too slow to get back on 2 screens that led to 3s..

I can't really think of others off the top of my head..Raps did make some tough shots though, especially that 3 to end the 3rd..

[Interrohater]

Yea, while Bonner had a good line tonight, his pick and roll defense is disgusting. Instead of hedging the pg out on the arc, he actually turns his back on him to catch up to his man. So, he gets in the way of our defender trying to go under the screen AND his back is to the pg (or sg), leaving a WIDE open 3 ball, or long 2.

I've long admired Duncan for his perimeter hedging that keeps the opposing player from just launching 3's all night. You would think that this would be a point of emphasis from Pop to Bonner since it's so glaringly obvious. Not that I actually counted or anything, but I swear he cost the Spurs like 12 points from that alone.

Yea, the defense was really bad tonight and I don't expect us to keep scoring like that. On the plus side, we had a good rebounding game. Thanks Dejuan!

[draft87]

Tim and McDyess don't close out on three-point shooters. The Spurs were exceptionally lazy at that tonight.


yah tim sucked so bad on D that he was only allowed to guard the gatorade

[DJB]

The Spurs letting a team put up 124 on them is pretty disgusting. I know Duncan is our defensive anchor, however it's still pretty inexcusable and I'm sure Pop is unhappy with them.

On a good note, it's nice to see that a team without Duncan or Tony can put up 131 in regulation.

[TD 21]

Tim and McDyess don't close out on three-point shooters. The Spurs were exceptionally lazy at that tonight.

I don't disagree about the Spurs being lazy in this regard tonight, but a lot of it was the product of being severely undersized in the post and having to double or trap which eventually led to kick-out's, skip passes and ball reversals and concluded with an open three for a Raptor. This is where having Duncan helps. Because of his sheer size and length in the post, the Spurs don't have to double the post (at least against the man Duncan's guarding) and can therefore stay home on three point shooters.

[SenorSpur]

Yea, while Bonner had a good line tonight, his pick and roll defense is disgusting. Instead of hedging the pg out on the arc, he actually turns his back on him to catch up to his man. So, he gets in the way of our defender trying to go under the screen AND his back is to the pg (or sg), leaving a WIDE open 3 ball, or long 2.

Bonner's pick-n-roll defense has ALWAYS been atrocious.

The Spurs have given up 60+ points in a half 2 out of the last 3 games.

It's hard to believe that the team the Spurs will play on Wednesday (Mavs) are playing better defense than the Spurs. They held the Raptors into the 80 pt range on Sat.

[Chieflion]

The shots were thankfully falling, otherwise, we would be calling for Pop's head. It is amazing how the Raptors scored on 59.2% of their shots. Terrible defense.

[VivaPopovich]

I don't have any thoughts on tonight's defense, since we were without our only significant defender..

Our defense in general obviously needs A LOT of work, and everybody here agrees with that..Bogans' playing time is a step in the right direction, so we're seeing some progress..McDyess is progressing game-by-game, so that will make a difference as well..

The defense was also looking a lot better down the stretch against Portland, which was another good sign..

We need more Theo

As good of a rebounder as Blair is, when his man gets him deep in the post his size becomes a disadvantage. I'm not sure what we're going to do there. Blair is just going to have to prevent people from getting position that deep on him for now. but in the long run he needs to lose weight and work on his vertical. he needs to be able to contest shots when he's manning bigs up in the paint.

This was McDyess best game defensively, although there were times he just wasn't trying. But he was rebounding a lot better tonight

[Blackjack]

Mason and Bonner completely fucked up the pick and roll D on Jack on the last shot of the 1st quarter..he fumbled the ball and still got a great look..

I lol'd; I couldn't even get mad it was so ridiculous..


If I didn't know any better, I actually might have thought 'Dyess baited Bosh early and changed his tactics late; his denial and the way he shaded him towards the end really helped the cause. But there's pretty much nothing you can take from this game defensively as it pertains to the team. The Spurs' defense is a essentially a puzzle, and it needs it's pieces; more specifically, it's centerpiece.

[ShoogarBear]

If I didn't know any better, I actually might have thought 'Dyess baited Bosh early and changed his tactics late; his denial and the way he shaded him towards the end really helped the cause.

I thought Bosh was going to score 50 the way he started. He actually distributed his scoring pretty evenly: 17 in the first half and 15 in the second, but the impact was a lot less in the second.

[Brazil]

Tim and McDyess don't close out on three-point shooters. The Spurs were exceptionally lazy at that tonight.

+10000

how can we defend so badly the 3s ???

[Dice]

Mcdyess has been gambling on defense all season and losing. Until the last few plays last night he was getting burned going for those steals and was staying with the roll man too long and not rotating fast enough to the third option. But I think he'll get better the more playing time he gets.

You can see him and the other guys asking questions to the bench during games and consulting with one another. I think everyone's just a little lost on defensive rotations right now but that will shore up over time.

Another thing I've noticed is that the Spurs have a lot of bigs with a lot of fouls to give. I think this will be an advantage come playoff time and help keep Tim in the game.

[BadOne]

The defense will improve, but at least we know that the offense is there... I think team chemistry and how fast they
gel together is more important at this point.
As soon everyone gets comfortable with each other and know their spots, the defense will improve.

Yeah I've gotta agree with you. More than anything, I've gotta be more patient than this. After last years slow start, we got better with less talent and still won 54 games. I suppose that's the silver lining.

[BadOne]

yah tim sucked so bad on D that he was only allowed to guard the gatorade

:lol

[Obstructed_View]

Where's the savior picture? Ian's been on this team long enough that he should know the defense better than any big not named Bonner or Duncan. He's supposedly healthy now, and the Spurs clearly need defense or they wouldn't be starting Bogans.

THROW IAN IN THE FUCKING WATER AND SEE IF HE SWIMS.

[ceperez]

Raptors were 59.2% from the field and 64.7% from the 3 point line.

Very hard to have better offensive numbers that that.

So to proclaim the obvious, defense was non-existent, even in the 4th quarter.

We just out scored them, plain and simple, just 38 points in the final period.

[coyotes_geek]

Where's the savior picture? Ian's been on this team long enough that he should know the defense better than any big not named Bonner or Duncan. He's supposedly healthy now, and the Spurs clearly need defense or they wouldn't be starting Bogans.

THROW IAN IN THE FUCKING WATER AND SEE IF HE SWIMS.

If Ian knew the system the Spurs would have picked up his option.

[ElNono]

Tidbit from Manu after the game:

"I think we're going to score, we just got to play better defense," Ginobili said. "We were talking before the season about trying to be the best team in the league defensively, and so far we're not even close."

[remingtonbo2001]

"I think we're going to score, we just got to play better defense," Ginobili said. "We were talking before the season about trying to be the best team in the league defensively, and so far we're not even close."

Thank you Captin Obvious.

[ulosturedge]

We are missing length at the bigs spot. When Bonner, McDyess, and Blair do happen to make it to their spots the "put your hands up and hold your ground" is not enough against taller and longer bigs. They get shot over every time. The only players that can use that tactic effectively is Duncan and Ratliff. But when either of them have to play help defense it opens up a whole new set of problems. Not sure why Pop doesn't try playing both of them together. A true twin tower setup. I also agree that we should give Ian a shot. At the least he might be able to disrupt the other teams offense if they are rolling.

[SpurNation]

The defense will come around once the rotations are figured out. Spurs defense requires a lot of recognition and effort from all 5. All it takes is just one player to faulter in their recognition or rotation to allow easy baskets for the opposing team.

The bigs are most susceptible since they are required in the system to be taken out of defensive positioning in the paint in order to cheat out on the perimeter if the wings can't rotate soon enough.

If the wings can rotate sooner out on the perimeter I think this will help eliviate some of that extra load placed on our bigs and we'll see lower FG%'s by the opposing teams.

[mingus]

my opinion is that Bogans needs to eat up all of Mason's minutes. he's tough, and he brings the intensity defensively. i hope he starts.

a frontcourt rotation of
TP/Hill
Bogans/Manu

is great defensively. from what i saw of Hairston last year, i'd like to see him come in for RJ. he's undersized, but his athleticism and rebounding is good for his size. give him a shot, Pop.

next step: give Haislip a shot. when Bonner's shot isn't falling and/or people are actually playing defense on him (the Raptor's might be the worst defensive team in the league so i look at his performance last night as a fluke), he does nothing else. sucks at rebounding, individual defense, team defense. i'm not saying Haislip is going to be dominant in these areas, but with his athleticism, he's got to have potential. and at the start of the season, he seemed hungry.

Tim Duncan has also got to get back in form. his knee brace is obviously imeding his movement. hopefully he an learn to move with it at some point.

i miss the days when the Spurs held teams to 70, 80 ppg. Pop keeps talking about it, but his defensive strategy to start the season has me wondering.

[coyotes_geek]

next step: give Haislip a shot. when Bonner's shot isn't falling and/or people are actually playing defense on him (the Raptor's might be the worst defensive team in the league so i look at his performance last night as a fluke), he does nothing else. sucks at rebounding, individual defense, team defense. i'm not saying Haislip is going to be dominant in these areas, but with his athleticism, he's got to have potential. and at the start of the season, he seemed hungry.

If Bonner's shot isn't falling I'd much rather see Dyess, Blair or Ratliff before seeing Haislip.

[ElNono]

Thank you Captin Obvious.

Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger...

[mingus]

If Bonner's shot isn't falling I'd much rather see Dyess, Blair or Ratliff before seeing Haislip.

i wouldn't know because i've never fuckin seen Haislip play besides a few meaningless preseason minutes. till then, i'll reserve my judgement.

[benefactor]

As others have mentioned, there isn't really much of a reason to read too much into what happened last night defensively. The team was basically flying by the seat their pants without Duncan or Parker.

[benefactor]

i wouldn't know because i've never fuckin seen Haislip play besides a few meaningless preseason minutes. till then, i'll reserve my judgement.
He actually played over 80 minutes during the preseason...and look terrible at everything while doing it.

[ElNono]

As others have mentioned, there isn't really much of a reason to read too much into what happened last night defensively. The team was basically flying by the seat their pants without Duncan or Parker.

While it's true it would be foolish to make decisions based on last night's defensive performances, you definitely can extract some stuff from it.
For example, Manu's 4 blocks shows he's still has some defensive knack in him.
Hill athleticism jumping over both Bosh and Bonner to fight for a board, shows hunger and desire to play defense (the flipside of that coin is how easily Bonner gets outrebounded). You also have to conclude that Matt's pick and roll defensive struggles are not going to be merely fixed by watching tape. He's been in the team for a long time now, and if he still turns his back to the ball almost every time.
Blair needs a lot of work. RJ needs work too.

[coyotes_geek]

i wouldn't know because i've never fuckin seen Haislip play besides a few meaningless preseason minutes. till then, i'll reserve my judgement.

That's certainly your prerogative. Personally I don't think it's all that hard to figure out whether or not Dejuan Blair and Antonio McDyess are better players than Marcus Hailsip, but to each their own.

[benefactor]

While it's true it would be foolish to make decisions based on last night's defensive performances, you definitely can extract some stuff from it.
For example, Manu's 4 blocks shows he's still has some defensive knack in him.
Hill athleticism jumping over both Bosh and Bonner to fight for a board, shows hunger and desire to play defense (the flipside of that coin is how easily Bonner gets outrebounded). You also have to conclude that Matt's pick and roll defensive struggles are not going to be merely fixed by watching tape. He's been in the team for a long time now, and if he still turns his back to the ball almost every time.
Blair needs a lot of work. RJ needs work too.
Bonner is a fundamentally flawed defensive player and probably always will be. He has improved leaps and bounds on his face up defense but his physical makeup will always limit him. I fully expect him to move to a more complimentary role when McDyess finds his groove and gets comfortable in the system. He should be better utilized in this role and less will be expected of him.

As far as the rest of the new guys go...it's just gonna take time. RJ is showing flashes of improvement and Blair will probably need a full season before he learns how to use is base to be physical without fouling.

[hater]

Spurs played decent D in the 4th quarter when it mattered. ANd when you missing your best defensive big man by far, you are gonna have this kinda games. not worried at all.

worried about Duncan's health though

[lefty]

The Spurs have always had good individual defenders, but their strenght is Team Defense.

We have a lot of new guys, so it will take some time before the team D is right where Pop wants it to be.

But I'm confident everybody will be in sync at one point.

[Interrohater]

You know, what's really interesting is I wonder if Pop still sees potential in Bonner, and that's why he keeps playing him. Think about it.

Matt is actually decently athletic, we've seen him drive a few times already in 6 games, this latest one going up hard for a dunk. If Pop could somehow get "the lights to come on" defensively for Matt, wouldn't he be our savior? He's almost 7', he can shoot well, he's ok athletically. He doesn't have much of a vertical, but as Duncan illustrates, you don't need to jump out of the building to block shots.

Maybe this has been Pop's plan all along, to correct this guy's mental mistakes, because that's all it is. It's all mental. Matt seems lost on the rotations sometimes, he's hardly ever in the right spot (hence low rebounding numbers) and he doesn't solidify himself when guarding on the low block. It has nothing to do with physical ability.

Maybe this is why Pop has played Matt so much. We have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.

Then again, maybe Matt Bonner just sucks.

[coyotes_geek]

I wouldn't say Pop sees potential in Bonner. At this stage in his career Bonner is already pretty much everything he's going to be. IMO what Pop sees is how an outside shooting big pulls a defending big away from Tim Duncan, and specifically in Bonner he sees a guy who can shoot the 3 and gives consistent effort. No doubt there are going to be nights where Bonner's shot isn't falling and/or he's matched up against a guy he just doesn't have the physical tools to guard.

This year I would hope Pop recognizes that he's got other options to go to in those situations unlike last year.

[Sobe_Kucks]

The shots were thankfully falling, otherwise, we would be calling for Pop's head. It is amazing how the Raptors scored on 59.2% of their shots. Terrible defense.

+1 Don't forget allowing almost 65% from 3. Hopefully we can build on the better defense they showed int eh second half against Portland once Timmy is back in the line-up.


As for the BOnner dicsussion... I really wouldn't pin any hope on him becoming a great or even servicable defender. Attitude and execution. He has shown no signs of becoming a better defender. I will HAPPILY eat the biggest crow sandwich if I am proved wrong. But I think I have a better chance of winning the MegaMillions.

[SenorSpur]

As others have stated, Blair, as much of a rebounding force as he is, is a young, flawed defensive player too. However, I am encouraged by the fact that the guy is trying to move his feet and take charges. Because he's a rookie, he's not going to get the benefit of any calls. For example, he did get jobbed on one last night against Bosh, where replays showed he clearly had position and was clearly outside of the restricted area.

It will take time for him to develop defensive instincts and a mindset. Still, it's good to see him making the effort. He just got to learn how to defend without fouling.

BTW, I don't see very many others willing to take charges.

[SenorSpur]

You know, what's really interesting is I wonder if Pop still sees potential in Bonner, and that's why he keeps playing him. Think about it.

Matt is actually decently athletic, we've seen him drive a few times already in 6 games, this latest one going up hard for a dunk. If Pop could somehow get "the lights to come on" defensively for Matt, wouldn't he be our savior? He's almost 7', he can shoot well, he's ok athletically. He doesn't have much of a vertical, but as Duncan illustrates, you don't need to jump out of the building to block shots.

Maybe this has been Pop's plan all along, to correct this guy's mental mistakes, because that's all it is. It's all mental. Matt seems lost on the rotations sometimes, he's hardly ever in the right spot (hence low rebounding numbers) and he doesn't solidify himself when guarding on the low block. It has nothing to do with physical ability.

Maybe this is why Pop has played Matt so much. We have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.

Then again, maybe Matt Bonner just sucks.


That's true.

I've said this before and I'll repeat it. Bonner is just fine as a contributing role player. He's being miscast as a starting center. When used too much, we've already seen diminishing returns. Also, the past 2 playoff series have proved to me that he cannot be counted on for clutch shooting.

[Ibanezsr]

He actually played over 80 minutes during the preseason...and look terrible at everything while doing it.

Preseason means nothing... Please see :Anthony Tolliver.

[ohmwrecker]

I'm not too worried. Team defense is definitely the major issue. The new guys have to learn the system and there is a trust issue that has to be established. If the Spurs team defense is strong, they can abide individual defender's weaknesses.
I agree that Bonner's problem is mostly mental, but his lack of lateral quickness is the root of that problem. He needs to get tougher, use his upper body and not rely on his feet so much. Finley is just older and slower. He can't hang with quicker players. Jefferson is improving. He just needs to get into a more defensive mindset and let his offense flow.
All new Spurs have to grasp the concept that "defense first" is how this system functions. George Hill and Dejuan Blair get it. Blair needs to establish post position a little sooner, but he is, considering his lack of height, one of the better defenders on the team. I'd like to see more Theo. If Bogans can't contribute more offensively, I would like to see Hairston get a fair shake, too.
No need to panic just yet. It's a long season and I really think this team will come together when it counts.

[Interrohater]

I'm not too worried. Team defense is definitely the major issue. The new guys have to learn the system and there is a trust issue that has to be established. If the Spurs team defense is strong, they can abide individual defender's weaknesses.
I agree that Bonner's problem is mostly mental, but his lack of lateral quickness is the root of that problem. He needs to get tougher, use his upper body and not rely on his feet so much. Finley is just older and slower. He can't hang with quicker players. Jefferson is improving. He just needs to get into a more defensive mindset and let his offense flow.
All new Spurs have to grasp the concept that "defense first" is how this system functions. George Hill and Dejuan Blair get it. Blair needs to establish post position a little sooner, but he is, considering his lack of height, one of the better defenders on the team. I'd like to see more Theo. If Bogans can't contribute more offensively, I would like to see Hairston get a fair shake, too.
No need to panic just yet. It's a long season and I really think this team will come together when it counts.

I totally disagree (with that sentence I mean). It's the lateral quickness and the ability to use your feet that makes a good defender. If he used his upper body more, he'd be getting fouled out of every game.

It's still interesting to me if this is the case (my point earlier). I mean, he's 29 and it's his, what, sixth year in the league? If he really is continuing to learn, maybe there's hope for him after all. I've also really had to stop agreeing with people who say he spaces the floor. He gets so many open 3 balls, it's very obvious that his defender isn't even close to defending him on the arc.

Either way, I highly doubt any trades will be made, so what we have is what we'll play, more than likely. I just hope it's enough.

[TDMVPDPOY]

dude as long we win games, thats all it matters

[Solid D]

I actually enjoy watching the Chicago Bulls play defense more than I do the Spurs right now. Seriously....and I have never been a Chicago Bulls fan. Not even in the Jordan/Pippen years.

When the Spurs do manage to force players away from the middle and toward the baseline, the help is either late, soft or never arrives. What's there to like right now?

[TJastal]

The refs were very generous all around toward the spurs against the raptors. I'm not sure why, usually they give the spurs the short end or worse but in this particular game they were very pro-spurs in their calls. They gave George Hill the respect of an mvp caliber player about every time he drove to the basket. This and many other favorable calls helped keep the spurs within striking distance for 3/4 of this game while the raptors were hitting all kinds of shots. Keith Bogans of all people was even getting favorable calls. Once that started, I was feeling some sympathy for the raptors. Keith fucking Bogans, joureyman scrub.. getting more respect than anyone on the raptors. :lol

That said, the spurs did have positives to come out of this. Hill was aggressive and caused problems for the raptors irregardless of the calls with his penetration. Jefferson had a solid all around game and Manu was fantastic in carrying the spurs to victory in the 4th quarter. I just hope he doesn't burn himself out and saves some of these types of efforts for the playoffs.

Bonner actually showed some diversity to his offensive game which I have to give him credit for. His defense was not so good however, but that wasn't surprising. Even in a game like this where he is hitting on all cylinders, his defense probably negated 2/3 of what he did on the offensive end.

Finley I have no idea why he still gets minutes, let alone starts. His quickness is completely gone and they things he does (hit 3's) is duplicated by other players who are younger and should be taking his place (Mason).

[Solid D]

The refs were very generous all around toward the spurs against the raptors. I'm not sure why, usually they give the spurs the short end or worse but in this particular game they were very pro-spurs in their calls. They gave George Hill the respect of an mvp caliber player about every time he drove to the basket. This and many other favorable calls helped keep the spurs within striking distance for 3/4 of this game while the raptors were hitting all kinds of shots. Keith Bogans of all people was even getting favorable calls. Once that started, I was feeling some sympathy for the raptors. Keith fucking Bogans, joureyman scrub.. getting more respect than anyone on the raptors. :lol

That said, the spurs did have positives to come out of this. Hill was aggressive and caused problems for the raptors irregardless of the calls with his penetration. Jefferson had a solid all around game and Manu was fantastic in carrying the spurs to victory in the 4th quarter. I just hope he doesn't burn himself out and saves some of these types of efforts for the playoffs.

Bonner actually showed some diversity to his offensive game which I have to give him credit for. His defense was not so good however, but that wasn't surprising. Even in a game like this where he is hitting on all cylinders, his defense probably negated 2/3 of what he did on the offensive end.

Finley I have no idea why he still gets minutes, let alone starts. His quickness is completely gone and they things he does (hit 3's) is duplicated by other players who are younger and should be taking his place (Mason).

What about the question asked in this thread? You addressed Matt Bonner's defense but not really any other aspect about the "Defense"....[or the lack thereof].

[TJastal]

What about the question asked in this thread? You addressed Matt Bonner's defense but not really any other aspect about the "Defense"....[or the lack thereof].

Okay, I'll throw out a few more random thoughts about the defense.

Pop needs to get Finley out of the rotation ASAP, especially as a starter. This sets a bad tone defensively for the team when he starts.

At least we got to see the absence of Bonner to start this last game.. but that could be due to Tim Duncan inactive. Hopefully he noticed that Bonner was more effective coming off the bench as a 4th big behind McDyess and Blair. But I'm not going to be surprised to see him back in the starting lineup as soon as Duncan returns.

I could really get used to Ratliff starting. I think it's a good thing. He picked up a few early fouls which was unfortunate in this particular game but its not a big deal, just means we see Blair or McDyess that much quicker. Its a good role for him. He's not looking for offense so it allowed some of the other guys like Jefferson/Hill/etc to get off to good early starts. Which IMO is more important than trying to get Bonner off to a good early start which is a hit or miss prospect. At least if Hill and Jefferson aren't hitting shots early they are going to be getting to the line and getting something going the spurs way.

Ratliff can also help Duncan alot more than Bonner with defending the interior (with help defense) and getting boards. This takes pressure of Tim. As we've already seen Duncan doesn't need any additional stress on his body.

Conclusion: Pop needs to realize he can't have Bonner or Finley in the starting lineup it just causes too many problems defensively to start games. This should have been done in the 1st or 2nd preseason game. Rotations are going to be screwy and unsettled until this happens. Every game that goes by that either one of those guys (or both) are starting is just another game that the spurs' chemistry and cohesion is going to be a mess.

[Interrohater]

Hill was aggressive and caused problems for the raptors irregardless of the calls with his penetration.

sorry man, i don't know if I can take you serious after this. :lol

Also, right now, I don't know why you'd rather have Dice in than Bonner. He's only averaging 1 rebound per game more than Matt and his defense is just as bad. Again, I say right now.

In addition, he's an older guy who's minutes need to be limited, same with Ratliff. Especially with Timmy and Tony out. Without those two, we're playing matador defense and high speed offense. Those guys probably shouldn't be running the floor all night at a George Hill-Jefferson-Manu-type of pace.

So, to me, the answer is exactly what we're getting. Bonner getting most of the minutes with Dice and Blair averaging about the same minutes. That's the one thing I do disagree with, though. Dejuan Blair is extremely efficient and should probably get a few more minutes. Especially when they play small ball. Hell, he's short enough to play PF and it'll still be considered small ball.

My biggest hope, though, is that the light bulb comes on for at least one of them, Blair or Bonner. We need some interior D badly.

[BadOne]

my biggest hope, though, is that the light bulb comes on for at least one of them, blair or bonner. We need some interior d badly.

+1

[Mel_13]

Dejuan Blair is extremely efficient and should probably get a few more minutes.

Agreed, but the whistle is causing some problems.

He played 19 minutes against the Raptors. He probably would have played 25-27 minutes except for the foul trouble. He picked up his 3rd with 3 minutes left in the 2nd quarter and his 5th with 9 minutes left in the game.

[quentin_compson]

One thing I noticed about Dice in the game against the Raptors (arguably his best so far in a Spurs uniform):

He gambled way too much and went for the steal several times when he should have been holding his position. I don't think this is good defense to begin with (funny enough, this gambling once was the reason Iverson was considered a good defender), but is especially bad when a big does it.

[Interrohater]

One thing I noticed about Dice in the game against the Raptors (arguably his best so far in a Spurs uniform):

He gambled way too much and went for the steal several times when he should have been holding his position. I don't think this is good defense to begin with (funny enough, this gambling once was the reason Iverson was considered a good defender), but is especially bad when a big does it.

great point. This, to me, is exactly the same reason that Blair is having trouble as a defender. With his deceptively long reach, it seems that he's pretty good at getting a hand on the ball when the defender puts the ball on the floor, so he creates turnovers. However, because he does this so often, he ends up being in a crouched position while attempting to steal and his assignment just rises up and shoots over him. In addition to that, he'll get a lot of calls against him. Although in the last game he was attempting to take a few charges, which are the hallmarks of a quality defender.

You would think that with his standing reach, he should be a decent defender, and I think that's still the case. The guy is 20 years old and has lots of time to become a complete player. Under the tutelage of Coach Pop and veterans like Timmy, Ratliff and Dice to learn from, he should get better real soon, in my estimation. It's also cool to note that Timmy talks to Dejuan on the bench. I don't know what they talk about, but if Dejuan learns anything at all from Timmy, he'll be a better man for it.

[TJastal]

sorry man, i don't know if I can take you serious after this. :lol

Also, right now, I don't know why you'd rather have Dice in than Bonner. He's only averaging 1 rebound per game more than Matt and his defense is just as bad. Again, I say right now.

In addition, he's an older guy who's minutes need to be limited, same with Ratliff. Especially with Timmy and Tony out. Without those two, we're playing matador defense and high speed offense. Those guys probably shouldn't be running the floor all night at a George Hill-Jefferson-Manu-type of pace.

So, to me, the answer is exactly what we're getting. Bonner getting most of the minutes with Dice and Blair averaging about the same minutes. That's the one thing I do disagree with, though. Dejuan Blair is extremely efficient and should probably get a few more minutes. Especially when they play small ball. Hell, he's short enough to play PF and it'll still be considered small ball.

My biggest hope, though, is that the light bulb comes on for at least one of them, Blair or Bonner. We need some interior D badly.

Eh? Explain please. The statement you've cited as a reason to not take me seriously.....was simply a compliment to George Hill's ability to penetrate and dismantle the craptors defense, which he did pretty much at will all game long. The thing I was trying to say was that even though the refs were calling constant bumping fouls on raptor players it wasn't like he needed those calls or was getting bailed out by them.

Funny, people say I'm overly critical but then I try to give a nice compliment and I get chastised for it. :(

[TJastal]

One thing I noticed about Dice in the game against the Raptors (arguably his best so far in a Spurs uniform):

He gambled way too much and went for the steal several times when he should have been holding his position. I don't think this is good defense to begin with (funny enough, this gambling once was the reason Iverson was considered a good defender), but is especially bad when a big does it.

I think McDyess is just used to having bigs next to him that can erase mistakes (Wallace / Ben Wallace). He could gamble knowing these guys would be there to help out.

Now he's got guys like Bonner or Blair who are of little help.

I'm actually glad you recognized this. File it into the "Reasons why McDyess should start alongside Duncan" cabinet.

Now, I know Duncan doesn't need the stress of having another big to provide help but its a calculated risk, hopefully Dice's gambling will pay off more than not.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Our defense sucks and it if it doesn't improve we're not winning anything.

[quentin_compson]

I'm actually glad you recognized this. File it into the "Reasons why McDyess should start alongside Duncan" cabinet.


Dude, this cabinet is already bursting at the seams. :p:

[Allanon]

What a difference a year makes.

Spurs and Raptors are both top 5 offensive teams right now. I'd say they're even better offensively than teams like the Lakers and Nuggets.

Defensively, I'm trying to figure out who is worse, the Raptors or the Spurs. And both are probably worse than the Grizzlies on defense.

[Interrohater]

Eh? Explain please. The statement you've cited as a reason to not take me seriously.....was simply a compliment to George Hill's ability to penetrate and dismantle the craptors defense, which he did pretty much at will all game long. The thing I was trying to say was that even though the refs were calling constant bumping fouls on raptor players it wasn't like he needed those calls or was getting bailed out by them.

Funny, people say I'm overly critical but then I try to give a nice compliment and I get chastised for it. :(

lol, I said that only because you used the word "Irregardless", which, contrary to popular opinion, is not really a word.

[Agloco]

lol, I said that only because you used the word "Irregardless", which, contrary to popular opinion, is not really a word.

Here we go again.......

Don't call someone out unless you're absolutely sure chief.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

[Interrohater]

Here we go again.......

Don't call someone out unless you're absolutely sure chief.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

Yea, I've seen that before. It all started when people incorrectly used the word. Things get added to Webster's dictionary when they're used in print and media more than a couple of times. That's why you now have words like "vlog" and "frenemy" in Webster's. Just because it's in Webster's doesn't mean it's correct, only that a lot of people use it incorrectly and it's now been accepted.

The funny thing is that your link says "Use regardless instead."

The reason that it's improper is because you're already saying regardless. You're saying the exact same thing, so why put IR in front?

[Interrohater]

Chief.

[Chomag]

I have yet to see any defense to base anything on. lol

[Agloco]

Yea, I've seen that before. It all started when people incorrectly used the word. Things get added to Webster's dictionary when they're used in print and media more than a couple of times. That's why you now have words like "vlog" and "frenemy" in Webster's. Just because it's in Webster's doesn't mean it's correct, only that a lot of people use it incorrectly and it's now been accepted.

I quote Websters:

usage: Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.

But don't take Websters word for it:

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/irregardless?view=uk

What now?

[Agloco]

The funny thing is that your link says "Use regardless instead."

The reason that it's improper is because you're already saying regardless. You're saying the exact same thing, so why put IR in front?

You're straying from the point.....


lol, I said that only because you used the word "Irregardless", which, contrary to popular opinion, is not really a word.

Proper use was never the issue. I never stated that one should use it in lieu of regardless.

[spurspokesman]

Our defense sucks and it if it doesn't improve we're not winning anything.
Giving up 124 points to the raptors is nothing to smirk about. The only thing good about that game was the win and fortunately they played worse defense than us.

[Interrohater]

I quote Websters:

usage: Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.

But don't take Websters word for it:

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/irregardless?view=uk

What now?

Lol, it's the same thing. Be honest with yourself instead of just trying to argue. Again, words get added all the time for the reasons stated above. Watch:

Coach Pop continues to play Matt Bonner regardless of the outcome.

Coach Pop continues to play Matt Bonner irregardless of the outcome.

Again, be honest, you know which is correct. And again, the evidence you've presented even tells you to just use "regardless". I don't understand your stance. Of course it's a word, but it's only a word because people have thought it was a word. Get it? Frenemy wasn't a word, much like irregardless. However, since it's been used so much, NOW it is.

Use whatever words you care to use, it's really none of my concern. Being honest with you, though, it's hard (for me!) to take someone seriously if they don't even realize what they're saying.

[Agloco]

I don't understand your stance. Of course it's a word, but it's only a word because people have thought it was a word. Get it? Frenemy wasn't a word, much like irregardless. However, since it's been used so much, NOW it is.


lol, I said that only because you used the word "Irregardless", which, contrary to popular opinion, is not really a word.


Use whatever words you care to use, it's really none of my concern. Being honest with you, though, it's hard (for me!) to take someone seriously if they don't even realize what they're saying.

I rest my case.

[Interrohater]

I rest my case.

lol, ok prosecution.
How about this.
You say it's a word because it's in the online dictionaries.
I say it's not a word because if not for the village idiot, it never would have made said online dictionaries.
We're getting caught up in semantics here. I don't recognize it as a word regardless of what the dictionaries say, because "words" get added to the American dictionary every year. You are steadfast in your belief that it's a word because the dictionary says so. Fine, so be it. We agree to disagree on that. However, we will both continue to use regardless.

Lol, this was fun, we should do it more often. :toast

[Agloco]

lol, ok prosecution.
How about this.
You say it's a word because it's in the online dictionaries.
I say it's not a word because if not for the village idiot, it never would have made said online dictionaries.
We're getting caught up in semantics here. I don't recognize it as a word regardless of what the dictionaries say, because "words" get added to the American dictionary every year. You are steadfast in your belief that it's a word because the dictionary says so. Fine, so be it. We agree to disagree on that. However, we will both continue to use regardless.

Lol, this was fun, we should do it more often. :toast


Ah yes, you got it...... :toast

[Bob Lanier]

Mcdyess has been gambling on defense all season and losing. Until the last few plays last night he was getting burned going for those steals and was staying with the roll man too long and not rotating fast enough to the third option. But I think he'll get better the more playing time he gets.

He did that his entire time in a Pistons uniform, and his defense deteriorated over the years. Since his surgeries he has simply lacked both the size and athleticism to be a very good defender.

[DPG21920]

What a difference a year makes.

Spurs and Raptors are both top 5 offensive teams right now. I'd say they're even better offensively than teams like the Lakers and Nuggets.

Defensively, I'm trying to figure out who is worse, the Raptors or the Spurs. And both are probably worse than the Grizzlies on defense.

Have you been watching the games? The Spurs offense is no where near as good as the Lakers.

The Spurs have been bad defensively, especially down low.

[Spursmania]

They really need to work on their transitional help on Defense. They have been burned over and over again on their rotations as well. I really want to see them improve. Even without Timmy, I'd like to see some real hustle and grit out there on the defensive end. We know they can shoot now let's see them play D.

Too bad TD and TP are not playing as I would have loved some redemption.

[HarlemHeat37]

It's impossible to judge based on stats right now, since that last game severely inflated both sides of the ball..we're ranked 2nd offensively right now, and 28th defensively..defense has definitely been horrible, while the offense has been good, but not great..we'll see how we look by mid-December, and if it's still nearly as bad as right now, it's definitely time to panic..

[EricB]

Watch the 4th quarter defense and you see guys closing out on shooters, McDyess playing well down low and held the Raptors to 17 points with 2 minutes left and when the Spurs had that I thin 15 point lead or 10 can't remember.

The 4th quarter showed that the potential for good defense is there only 6 games in.


Defensive problems don't worry me until March.

[Allanon]

Have you been watching the games? The Spurs offense is no where near as good as the Lakers.

Haven't missed a game yet (from either the Spurs or Lakers).

The Lakers offense right now is Kobe. Not very fluid and too many turnovers. Before the last two games, if Kobe wasn't on the floor, the Lakers would give up like 10 points. They are improving but I don't think they'll be better offensively than the Spurs anytime soon.

Unlike the Kobe-centric Lakers right now, the Spurs, on the other hand, can attack from multiple positions and from pretty much every player not named Bogans.

In fact, I just looked up scoring efficiency and the Spurs are indeed ranked #2 in this category and #1 in turnover ratio.

Pop's done a great job of putting guys where they'll be successful offensively. On defense, he has to work on the new guys, specifically Dick and Dice. Blair's a bit late on his rotations still.

Spurs have no problems scoring efficiently and are miserly with the ball. It's the defense that's quite horrid (#27 defensive efficiency).

[superbigtime]

Here we go again.......

Don't call someone out unless you're absolutely sure chief.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless


So what if it's in the dictionary? Does that make it a legitimate word?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ain%27t

[Agloco]

So what if it's in the dictionary? Does that make it a legitimate word?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ain%27t


You're straying from the point.....
Proper use was never the issue. I never stated that one should use it in lieu of regardless.