Monroe: Iverson's act shows he's no Ginobili

[duncan228]

Iverson's act shows he's no Ginobili (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Iversons_act_shows_hes_no_Ginobili.html)
Mike Monroe

Tony Parker and Tim Duncan were out for the Spurs' game against the Toronto Raptors on Monday night, but when it came time for the opening tip, Manu Ginobili was in his customary spot the past two seasons: on the bench, awaiting opportunity to impose his will on the game.

Ginobili's will produced 36 points, eight assists, four blocks and an important victory for the Spurs.

Ginobili is the best player since John Havlicek to willingly accept a bench role. Havlicek never started for the great Celtics teams of the 1960s and '70s, but his role was the template for the league's Sixth Man Award.

Havlicek is in the Hall of Fame, and if the totality of Ginobili's career, NBA and international, is considered, he will be enshrined someday.

Allen Iverson is headed to the Hall, too, but when it comes to acceptance of roles, he and Ginobili are alpha and omega.

The Answer, on personal leave from Memphis to attend to family problems, has become a series of questions.

• Will he retire out of sheer spite?

• Wasn't he told before he signed that there was a strong likelihood he would be asked to come off the bench?

• Is he trying to force a trade, a la Stephen Jackson?

• Why did he sign with the Grizzlies in the first place, and for a relatively paltry $3.1 million?

Iverson is among the most competitive players ever, and this is the crux of the problem the Grizzlies face. He's been an MVP and led the league in scoring. He feels entitled to a spot in the starting lineup.

Rasheed Wallace, Iverson's former Pistons teammate who is coming off the bench for the Celtics, told the Boston Herald a great player has to first accept the decline in his abilities before accepting a bench role.

When Iverson looks in the mirror, he still sees a player capable of dominating games.

Michael Finley is a former All-Star and a volume shooter who has adapted to a lesser role with the Spurs. He feels A.I.'s pain but wonders about his response to being asked to play behind young Mike Conley.

“A.I. is a future Hall of Fame player and a former MVP,” Finley said. “For him to go to a bench role is difficult. That being said, from the outside, looking in, I thought he knew the situations he was getting into. But when that ball goes up, that competitive instinct takes over, especially when your team's not winning.”

Rationalizing his pique, Iverson asked anyone questioning his anger to check his résumé.

“His résumé says he's put in a pretty good NBA career,” Finley said. “For him to take less of a role on a team with young guys who haven't even established themselves in the league is a hit to his ego.”

Iverson earned his ego, and over his career, he earned maximum NBA money, including $20.8 million last season. His ego went on a bad trip last summer when none of the NBA's title contenders offered a former MVP a free-agent deal.

Then the Grizzlies made their offer, and Iverson said he would go help Memphis win.

Finley didn't buy it, then or now.

“I personally think he made an emotional decision, out of anger, when no teams were trying to pick him up when I think he is still capable of doing some good things for some teams,” Finley said. “At the time, that was the best offer, and I think he just took it. Once he got there, he might have realized he didn't make a wise decision.”

Here's the real question about The Answer: What were the Grizzlies thinking when they added Iverson and ball monopolizer Zach Randolph to a young roster that already featured volume shooters O.J. Mayo and Rudy Gay?

Iverson always has been a box-office draw. Owner Michael Heisley needed an attendance boost but forgot Sports Marketing Rule No. 1 in team sports: Nothing sells like a winner.

[VivaPopovich]

iverson
mayo
gay
randolph
gasol

would be sick

but AI will never know his role and shut his mouth long enough for that to happen. shame. cause that lineup could go places. if he was more cooperative he wouldnt be on the bench forever.

[Sean Cagney]

AI is a damn loser now, has been for years IMO. He used to be one of my fave players in this league, but the last few years he just has shut that down and shown what he truly is (A Me first player and will do what it takes to win). He will not go to a contender and come off the bench for a title, he will instead want to be the man and just ruin his career or whats left of it.

[ShoogarBear]

Holy crap, Monroe. Havlicek was a starter by the time of the Celtics 68 and 69 championships. :bang

[angelbelow]

What a mess.

[SenorSpur]

I so wish AI would go away...and that he'd take Shaq with him.

[Danny.Zhu]

To be fair, AI is in a completely different situation from Ginobili's.

[coyotes_geek]

To be fair, AI is in a completely different situation from Ginobili's.

AI is the one who put himself in that situation. If he doesn't like it, that's all on him.

[Riverwalkman]

It's just hilarious to make such a comparison. Ginobili should be compared to super sixthmen like Kevin McHale, Tony Kukoc, who are the key parts of dynasty teams.

AI is more like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Jerry Stackhouse...those kind of players.

[Samr]

We're talking about a back-up. A back-up. Not a starter, a back-up. A back-up is a back-up. I mean, really guys, come on here! We're talking about a BACK-UP. A. Back. Up. A back-up.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

To be fair, AI is in a completely different situation from Ginobili's.

To be fair, AI knew what he was getting into when he signed his deal with Memphis.

In all likelihood, they told him he'd be coming off the bench, and in his mind he heard "I'll start the season coming off the bench, but I'm so damn good they will have to make me a starter sooner than later."

And when it didn't happen he took his ball and went home.

[Agloco]

Iverson's act shows he's no Ginobili (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Iversons_act_shows_hes_no_Ginobili.html)
Mike Monroe


Then the Grizzlies made their offer, and Iverson said he would go help Memphis win.

Finley didn't buy it, then or now.

“I personally think he made an emotional decision, out of anger, when no teams were trying to pick him up when I think he is still capable of doing some good things for some teams,” Finley said. “At the time, that was the best offer, and I think he just took it. Once he got there, he might have realized he didn't make a wise decision.”


I think Finley hits the nail on the head here. AI never was interested in helping anyone or anything but his stat line. Once it became clear that Lionel Hollins wasn't going to be pushed around, AI bolted.

I don't think he's coming back either.

[BatManu]

It's just hilarious to make such a comparison. Ginobili should be compared to super sixthmen like Kevin McHale, Tony Kukoc, who are the key parts of dynasty teams.

AI is more like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Jerry Stackhouse...those kind of players.

Did you just call AI an underachieving loser?

[Riverwalkman]

Did you just call AI an underachieving loser?
Yes if you defined super star without a ring as an underachieving loser.

[spursfaninla]

It's just hilarious to make such a comparison. Ginobili should be compared to super sixthmen like Kevin McHale, Tony Kukoc, who are the key parts of dynasty teams.

AI is more like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Jerry Stackhouse...those kind of players.

I don't think Tony Kukoc deserves to be with Manu, much less Mchale and Havlicek.

[Big P]

Gino & AI's names should not be in the same sentence.

[xtremesteven33]

I don't think Tony Kukoc deserves to be with Manu, much less Mchale and Havlicek.



Manu >>>> Kukoc

[TDomination]

Im not too sure about this comparison but I think point is made, Ginobili (who would easily be the starter for at least half of the NBA teams) accepts a role off the bench without causing any real distraction. True Pro!

[BatManu]

Yes if you defined super star without a ring as an underachieving loser.

No, but Vince Carter is a seldom motivated waste of talent, T-Mac has never won a playoff series (last year don't count since he was a spectator), and Stackhouse had his moments, but never really carried a team the way a true superstar does. AI is a former scoring champ and MVP who is more along the lines of a Charles Barkley or Karl Malone as far as a superstar without a ring, but I would most compare him to Patrick Ewing in that respect since Ewing did not want to keep playing unless he was the starter and became a barely sought after journeyman at the end of his career. I like AI, and would not consider him an underachieving loser, but he is out of his mind to think he can sign with a new team, miss the pre-season and the first couple of games and then automatically get to start. He whines like an old man complaining about the music kids listen to these days.

[Bukefal]

Iverson is loser. He will not play for memphis again, I hope he won't play at all in the league anymore. He is done.

[Blackjack]

It's a shame, really. He could've really done a lot of good for his self and his legacy, as far as perception, if he'd not let his ego prevent him from doing what McAdoo and other greats did towards the end of his career; there's no shame in being a big-time 6th-Man on a championship caliber team.. just ask Manu.

If the guy just had the ability to see himself for who and what he is as a basketball player, he'd realize the 6th-Man role was an absolute perfect fit for his skill set and the best way to utilize it; as far as championship aspirations.

Damn, Allen..

You coulda' been a contenda'..

[spurs10]

Manu Ginobili is a man of high integrity and character, with a passion for his team and winning that is obvious. His resume is so impressive that few NBA players will ever come near in their career accomplishments. So it's probably unfair comparing him to many others players in the first place.

[polandprzem]

What a mess.

:lol

[Fabbs]

To be fair, AI knew what he was getting into when he signed his deal with Memphis.

In all likelihood, they told him he'd be coming off the bench, and in his mind he heard "I'll start the season coming off the bench, but I'm so damn good they will have to make me a starter sooner than later."

And when it didn't happen he took his ball and went home.
Finley, the ultimate robber of minutes talking about playing time. :depressed

Dunno if i trust Memphis Lakers either, Aggie. The team that took Kwame Brown for Gasol then used the money to sign Zac Randolph.

You've got to believe tho that his playing time was discussed and i concur with what you think AIs thought process was.

[bdubya]

Iverson's act shows he's no Ginobili


Monroe actually gets paid for this kind of insight?

[xtremesteven33]

Iverson should go to Miami. It makes the most sense to team him up with Wade who needs another superstar to take pressure off of him.

Iverson and Wade sounds like a damning combo on paper.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

iverson
mayo
gay
randolph
gasol

would be sick


It would be hilarious. Simply put a double or triple on Iverson, Randolph or Gay every time they get the ball and it'll be a 24 second violation festival, because they'll refuse to pass.

Memphis looks like a shipwreck. They need to trade Gay, Iverson and Randolph for a star and a good team player.

[whottt]

AI's biggest problem is not his ego but that he sucks coming off the bench and does not know how to play without dominating the ball. I really don't think it's so much that he thinks he's to good to do it, but that he doesn't want to suck. He tried to do it last year and he sucked at it. I'm sure pride plays some kind of role in his issues, but you are talking about a guy that is used to dominating, and he really can't do that without also dominating the ball. Maygbe not ego so much as that he doesn't think he can do it.



It's not that easy to jump between the bench and starting like Manu can and not many players can do it, especially jumping to the bench. That is why Manu has had to do it so many times. Monroe made some good points on Manu being in the HOF but I think it's much more of a certainty already because they will take his International and European career into account and they will also take into account the fact that he is the greatest player from Argentina. He's had that locked up for a long time I think.

I mean that Gold Medal he won he went through AI(and some other great players).

[HarlemHeat37]

He should have went to Charlotte, it made sense for both sides, I don't know how it fell through..

[FromWayDowntown]

This is just the follow up to the story from a few seasons ago. Iverson bitched about the idea of him coming off the bench in his first game back from an injury and didn't play. The next night, Tim Duncan returned from an injury and didn't start for the Spurs. To this day, it is the only game he's played for the Spurs without starting.

[senorglory]

What seems to be getting lost in the recent AI conversation, is that AI hasn't been asked to come off the bench permanently, to move to the sixth man spot, or to limit his minutes over the season. AI missed the preseason and the first three games, with a muscle tear. AI hadn't played with the team yet, and was nursing a muscle injury, a type of injury which has the potential to reinjure/aggravate... so naturally, he was working his way into game shape and full rotation, and rumors say, set for a starting role by the Grizz Clippers game. What's also being glossed over is the context of his comments. His "I'm no damn back-up" was a statement directly addressed at his teammates, and meant to show them up. Conley was sitting next to AI when he made the statement, and AI made a point of letting the entire locker room know that with the current starters, Grizzlies wouldn't win. Also, to add context, in his last game, AI waived off a screen, yelling at the bench (coach? teammates?) "I don't need no fucking screen to get my shot off!" C'mon, man. These are significant indicators of a big AI problem, that can't be brushed aside by AI apologists. This is not a matter of AI being lambasted for merely speaking his mind, or for AI being AI, or the injustice due to Grizz misleading AI prior to the start of this season. This is AI blowing up (and not in the good way, but in the self-destruct way).

Here are the facts: 1) No other viable offers from other NBA team other than Grizz; 2) AI skills decline (debatable-- but did shoot Nuggets out of playoffs against Spurs)/ or at least, No NBA team confident AI can still be franchise player (self-evident); 3) AI out with injury, miss pre-season, miss first 3 games; 4) AI throws temper tantrum (justified or not) after very first game in which he played 18 minutes and was in the game for the final shot of the game (teammates did not pass ball to AI, wonder why?); 5) AI implies that team cannot win with current starters/ breaks plays while on court/ criticizes coach for failure to communicate with AI/ claims was mislead about Grizz being in rebuilding mode (if they even really are); 6) Constantly references his resume, and specifically relies on his statement that he's never come of the bench in 26 years of basketball, such that he's Shocked, yes Shocked that coming off the bench would now be raised for the first time ever, despite having come of bench last year for Pistons, and despite oblique statements from team owner that there were specific discussions about rotation this past summer prior to signing; 7) and... a;slkdfja;pslkdfja;sdjf ... on and on.

Look, before you flame me, I get it. AI is a hall of famer. Scoring. Passing. 76ers in the finals. Neck tats. Cornrows. I agree, he's awesome. but at the same time, he's also acting like a loon, and seriously messing with this teams ability to function, same as he did with Detroit, Denver, 76ers, only now, even more so. He is currently at odds with the team owner, head coach, and teammates, and has now in two consecutive seasons pulled a disappearing act on his team after publicly complaining about his treatment by the team. Both can be true: he's awesome; he's wrong.

What's the sole root of the AI Grizzlies problem? AI is the Answer.

[BillMc]

What seems to be getting lost in the recent AI conversation, is that AI hasn't been asked to come off the bench permanently, to move to the sixth man spot, or to limit his minutes over the season. AI missed the preseason and the first three games, with a muscle tear. AI hadn't played with the team yet, and was nursing a muscle injury, a type of injury which has the potential to reinjure/aggravate... so naturally, he was working his way into game shape and full rotation, and rumors say, set for a starting role by the Grizz Clippers game. What's also being glossed over is the context of his comments. His "I'm no damn back-up" was a statement directly addressed at his teammates, and meant to show them up. Conley was sitting next to AI when he made the statement, and AI made a point of letting the entire locker room know that with the current starters, Grizzlies wouldn't win. Also, to add context, in his last game, AI waived off a screen, yelling at the bench (coach? teammates?) "I don't need no fucking screen to get my shot off!" C'mon, man. These are significant indicators of a big AI problem, that can't be brushed aside by AI apologists. This is not a matter of AI being lambasted for merely speaking his mind, or for AI being AI, or the injustice due to Grizz misleading AI prior to the start of this season. This is AI blowing up (and not in the good way, but in the self-destruct way).

Here are the facts: 1) No other viable offers from other NBA team other than Grizz; 2) AI skills decline (debatable-- but did shoot Nuggets out of playoffs against Spurs)/ or at least, No NBA team confident AI can still be franchise player (self-evident); 3) AI out with injury, miss pre-season, miss first 3 games; 4) AI throws temper tantrum (justified or not) after very first game in which he played 18 minutes and was in the game for the final shot of the game (teammates did not pass ball to AI, wonder why?); 5) AI implies that team cannot win with current starters/ breaks plays while on court/ criticizes coach for failure to communicate with AI/ claims was mislead about Grizz being in rebuilding mode (if they even really are); 6) Constantly references his resume, and specifically relies on his statement that he's never come of the bench in 26 years of basketball, such that he's Shocked, yes Shocked that coming off the bench would now be raised for the first time ever, despite having come of bench last year for Pistons, and despite oblique statements from team owner that there were specific discussions about rotation this past summer prior to signing; 7) and... a;slkdfja;pslkdfja;sdjf ... on and on.

Look, before you flame me, I get it. AI is a hall of famer. Scoring. Passing. 76ers in the finals. Neck tats. Cornrows. I agree, he's awesome. but at the same time, he's also acting like a loon, and seriously messing with this teams ability to function, same as he did with Detroit, Denver, 76ers, only now, even more so. He is currently at odds with the team owner, head coach, and teammates, and has now twice consecutively pulled a disappearing act on his team after publicly complaining about his treatment by the team. Both can be true: he's awesome; he's wrong.

What's the sole root of the AI Grizzlies problem? AI is the Answer.

+1 Very well said.

[Otaku]

Allen Iverson is headed to the Hall, too

LOL. WTF has he won besides bad reputation as a selfish bitch?

[coyotes_geek]

LOL. WTF has he won besides bad reputation as a selfish bitch?

:rolleyes

He's still a selfish bitch with 10 all star appearances, 4 scoring titles, an MVP trophy and a ROY. I wouldn't want AI on my team, but his HOF induction is guaranteed.

[SpursBabe99]

It's just hilarious to make such a comparison. Ginobili should be compared to super sixthmen like Kevin McHale, Tony Kukoc, who are the key parts of dynasty teams.

AI is more like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Jerry Stackhouse...those kind of players.


Did you just call AI an underachieving loser?

lmao that's exactly what I got out of it too! Seriously no comparison! Manu is a TEAM PLAYER! He's all about the win, seed position, and rings! Not his own personal stats and achievments, although he's such a badass and has collected many along the way. He's just all about what's best for the team, no matter the minutes and if that includes coming off the bench to bring a spark! Ultimate Sixth man! :king

[Otaku]

:rolleyes

He's still a selfish bitch with 10 all star appearances, 4 scoring titles, an MVP trophy and a ROY. I wouldn't want AI on my team, but his HOF induction is guaranteed.

And no rings... oh, and no team either :rolleyes

[borders]

Iverson is a guy who's always in trouble. And it never is his fault if you ask him. He needs to be kicked out of the NBA although he can play. He was born to be a full-time gangster, let him.

[coyotes_geek]

And no rings... oh, and no team either :rolleyes

Neither of which will keep him out of the HOF.

[Obstructed_View]

We're talking about a back-up. A back-up. Not a starter, a back-up. A back-up is a back-up. I mean, really guys, come on here! We're talking about a BACK-UP. A. Back. Up. A back-up.

:lol

[Obstructed_View]

Allen is a whiny team-killing bitch, but if there's a better individual player in NBA history under 6'1", I don't know about him.