Looks Like Bonner CAN Play Off The Bench?

[VI_Massive]

I have myself felt and perceived in others a fear that coming off the bench would render Bonner useless due to confidence/rhythm issues. He came off the bench tonight and played pretty well. He shot well and judiciously. He defended competently, nothing spectacular, but he wasn't bad. Best of all, he rebounded well. While watching the game I didn't find myself saying "wow, Bonner is really crashing the boards tonight", but he ended up with a very solid 9 rebounds.

So do we think now that he can come off the bench and still contribute?

[BillMc]

Bonner contributed quite well tonight. He's no all-star, but he's a valuable member of this team.

[EricB]

Yeah Bonner looked great. His D On Dirk was decent he had a hand in his face and did about all you can do. His shots looked solid and the rebounding was surprising.

IMO against OKC I'd do the same 5 if Duncan can't go with Blair Dice RJ KB and Hill.

[peskypesky]

Bonner is a serviceable bench player. Always was. Always will be.

[SenorSpur]

No doubt. Bonner is a good fit - off the bench - not as a starter.

[HarlemHeat37]

I made a thread about this in the off-season..there was a lot of mixed opinions, which always happens with Bonner..

He's one of the best 3-point shooting big men in the NBA..he has some ability to drive and shoot his little hook-shots..he can make the mid-range J..

the problem with Bonner is that he can't defend against top-tier big men..Bonner is a smart defender though..he gives effort, he gets in good position, and he contests shot..he just doesn't have the physical ability, which is a huge part of defending in the NBA..

When you move him to the bench, this isn't as big of an issue..he's gonna be going up against guys that are A LOT less talented than the players he's facing as a starter..when he's going up against guys like Drew Gooden, it's not a big deal, but when he's going up against Dirk, it's different..

Bonner as a bench player is usually going to be as good or better than his opponent, or at least as good of a mismatch..

[ulosturedge]

I was just elated to see that neither him nor finley started tonight. But yeah Bonner played pretty good tonight. He has shown to be quite reliable when Pop doesn't over use him. Definitely a good role player as hard as it is to admit sometimes.

[DJB]

:tu to this thread.

[VI_Massive]

I made a thread about this in the off-season..there was a lot of mixed opinions, which always happens with Bonner..

He's one of the best 3-point shooting big men in the NBA..he has some ability to drive and shoot his little hook-shots..he can make the mid-range J..

the problem with Bonner is that he can't defend against top-tier big men..Bonner is a smart defender though..he gives effort, he gets in good position, and he contests shot..he just doesn't have the physical ability, which is a huge part of defending in the NBA..

When you move him to the bench, this isn't as big of an issue..he's gonna be going up against guys that are A LOT less talented than the players he's facing as a starter..when he's going up against guys like Drew Gooden, it's not a big deal, but when he's going up against Dirk, it's different..

Bonner as a bench player is usually going to be as good or better than his opponent, or at least as good of a mismatch..

I agree completely. The concern I had, and that I perceived from others, was that Bonner might not shoot with the same confidence/success and play with a general sense of rhythm off the bench. I now think and hope these fears are baseless.

[BillMc]

I agree completely. The concern I had, and that I perceived from others, was that Bonner might not shoot with the same confidence/success and play with a general sense of rhythm off the bench. I now think and hope these fears are baseless.

I agree. And those fears have now been transferred to Mason.

[TIMMYD!]

He is a nice spark to have off the bench.

[ElNono]

15 mins top against the other team's bench, and when Finley is not out there is ok with me.
I understand him playing more minutes now that TD is injured, but one Tim comes back that should be his role IMO.

[VI_Massive]

I agree. And those fears have now been transferred to Mason.

Agreed. Hopefully he can be a sharpshooter/minimal ball handler off the bench when the rotation is at its full capacity, but I don't think any of us are sure he can still be in rhythm with his jumper in limited minutes.

[baseline bum]

I gotta give Bonner props tonight. That three he hit late saved the Spurs from a brutal collapse.

[EricB]

Bonner is just fine against other team's bench bigs.

The thinking about him being this horrible burden on the team has just gotten ridiculous.

[BillMc]

Agreed. Hopefully he can be a sharpshooter/minimal ball handler off the bench when the rotation is at its full capacity, but I don't think any of us are sure he can still be in rhythm with his jumper in limited minutes.

True. We'll see. Hopefully, this is just a slump. But too early to know...

Nice thread!:toast

[Whisky Dog]

Bonner is bench fodder and can compete against other team's bench fodder. There was no doubt about that. He just can't compete with other team's front line bigs.

[itzsoweezee]

I made a thread about this in the off-season..there was a lot of mixed opinions, which always happens with Bonner..

He's one of the best 3-point shooting big men in the NBA..he has some ability to drive and shoot his little hook-shots..he can make the mid-range J..

the problem with Bonner is that he can't defend against top-tier big men..Bonner is a smart defender though..he gives effort, he gets in good position, and he contests shot..he just doesn't have the physical ability, which is a huge part of defending in the NBA..

When you move him to the bench, this isn't as big of an issue..he's gonna be going up against guys that are A LOT less talented than the players he's facing as a starter..when he's going up against guys like Drew Gooden, it's not a big deal, but when he's going up against Dirk, it's different..

Bonner as a bench player is usually going to be as good or better than his opponent, or at least as good of a mismatch..


cosign 100%

[Manufan909]

Indeed, he's awesome off the bench. His game-saving 3 was almost as good as his driving one-handed two-hand dunk.:lol

[timtonymanu]

I never wanna see Finley, Mason, and Bonner on the floor at the same time, but i love to see Bonner come off the bench. He fits much better in that role unlike Finley and Mason who both have to start to have a good game but i dont wanna see that.

[TJastal]

Only took Popovich last year's playoffs, entire off season & training camp, preseason, and part of a new season to figure out what seems fairly obvious to anyone with a modicum of intelligence - that Bonner is not starter quality and is best suited to come off the bench where he is infinitely more comfortable and productive.

I'm still holding my breath however, when Duncan returns to the starting lineup I would not be surprised to see Popovich in all his infinite wisdom totally mess the team over again reinstituting Bonner as the starting center.

If that happens just please shoot me.

Well I'm going to enjoy this while it lasts. I'm about 5 mins into watching the maverick game and I am happy as fuck seeing McDyess in the starting lineup and knocking down two early J's and smothering Dirk defensively. This is the kind of guy Duncan needs next to him to act as a pressure valve.

[ezau]

Bonner's actually a decent player. He just isn't starter material, but he's serviceable off the bench. I hope POP finally realizes this because the Bonner experiment is a complete failure

[mesothorny]

Only took Popovich last year's playoffs, entire off season & training camp, preseason, and part of a new season to figure out what seems fairly obvious to anyone with a modicum of intelligence - that Bonner is not starter quality and is best suited to come off the bench where he is infinitely more comfortable and productive.

I'm still holding my breath however, when Duncan returns to the starting lineup I would not be surprised to see Popovich in all his infinite wisdom totally mess the team over again reinstituting Bonner as the starting center.

If that happens just please shoot me.

Well I'm going to enjoy this while it lasts. I'm about 5 mins into watching the maverick game and I am happy as fuck seeing McDyess in the starting lineup and knocking down two early J's and smothering Dirk defensively. This is the kind of guy Duncan needs next to him to act as a pressure valve.

And just what exactly would benching Bonner during last year's playoffs have accomplished?

Getting players acclimated to the system while still trying to win early games seems sound enough to me. Barring injury, Bonner will not start any important games when it truly counts. Get over yourself.

[TJastal]

And just what exactly would benching Bonner during last year's playoffs have accomplished?

Getting players acclimated to the system while still trying to win early games seems sound enough to me. Barring injury, Bonner will not start any important games when it truly counts. Get over yourself.

"Getting players acclimated to the system" I should hope a full training camp and pre-season would be enough to accomplish this. Once the regular season starts you really need to get your starters together so they can get acclimated to each other as soon as possible. That is how players develop chemistry with each other.. you know by playing with one another.

And then there's the fact that with Bonner out there starting, Timmy has to carry not only his load defensively but most of Bonner's as well. Popovich is doing a huge disservice to Tim Duncan at this stage of his career by putting a defensive liability like Bonner next to him especially when there are better options on the team. Even last year there were better options - Oberto, Thomas, and Gooden were all better than Bonner defensively.

[angelbelow]

This is a pretty good sign IMO. If he can come in and hit a few open shots (or miss) and stretch out the floor, he can be very valuable in spot minutes.

Also, his new newly acquired skill to drive the basketball may come in handy. So far he hasnt made any dumb or careless mistakes, so if he can effectively surprise his defender and drive the ball once every few games, that's a big plus too imo.

[TJastal]

This is a pretty good sign IMO. If he can come in and hit a few open shots (or miss) and stretch out the floor, he can be very valuable in spot minutes.

Also, his new newly acquired skill to drive the basketball may come in handy. So far he hasnt made any dumb or careless mistakes, so if he can effectively surprise his defender and drive the ball once every few games, that's a big plus too imo.

Bonner must be reading these boards.

I swear, the past few games he looks like he has some extra spring and quickness in his step going for rebounds and loose balls.

Still can't play defense to save his life but then again its Bonner... :rollin

[raspsa]

Two solid outings in a row for the Red Rocket.. dare we hope for a third?

[ceperez]

Bonner appears to be a keeper.

Like I've been saying, he's playing much better than last year and he's hitting those 3's without a conscience.

He's the one guy who bailed us out of our atrocious 13 point 4th quarter drought.

Oh, BTW, Finley is also a keeper! ;-)

[all_heart]

This is where Bonner belongs, I just hope Pop can recognize this. Bonner probably doesn't realize this but he just increased his trade value, if he keeps it up. Trading Bonner + ? for a legit shot blocker/defender still has a nice ring to it. Think of playoff grind it out type of basketball and having a front court of TD, Dice, Ratliff, Blair +? will mean when going against the Lakers or Celtics. Just saying... :)

[SpurNation]

As frustrating as it was last year having Bonner as our starter, there wasn't anyone else who qualified.

This year with the quality of McDyess and the emergence of Blair...hopefully we see Bonner off the bench.

He looks completely comfortable and more confident in that role. A huge plus for him and the team.

For all those that wanted him gone...you'll be glad to change your mind now that he will be contributing from a role he always was meant to play.

He's a huge asset for this team in the right scenario.

[Russ]

Bonner has passed the first test -- he can play off the bench.

The Spurs need to keep challenging him by raising the bar.

[coyotes_geek]

This whole thing gets way overblown. Bonner is a role player. Whether or not the minutes in which he's on the court filling that role come at the opening tip or after the game is already underway is irrelevant.

[all_heart]

Bonner has passed the first test -- he can play off the bench.

The Spurs need to keep challenging him by raising the bar.

Like him starting!!?? Slow down.. :lol

[Russ]

Like him starting!!?? Slow down.. :lol

I think you didn't get it. :) (Or maybe you did.)

[TJastal]

This whole thing gets way overblown. Bonner is a role player. Whether or not the minutes in which he's on the court filling that role come at the opening tip or after the game is already underway is irrelevant.

So your saying you don't see any difference whatsoever in how the team is playing (in particular on defense) since Fin and Bonner have been getting more minutes off the bench? Seriously?

Somebody should post a poll and we'll find out how many people REALLY think it makes no difference. I'd love to see how many people think this.

[coyotes_geek]

So your saying you don't see any difference whatsoever in how the team is playing (in particular on defense) since Fin and Bonner have been getting more minutes off the bench? Seriously?

Somebody should post a poll and we'll find out how many people REALLY think it makes no difference. I'd love to see how many people think this.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that whatever the happy medium for the number of minutes Matt Bonner should be playing is, it doesn't matter whether he gets some of those minutes as a member of the starting lineup or not. How many minutes he plays is the issue, not when he plays those minutes.

[Spursmania]

Bonner is just doing what is natural and fitting for his role as a complimentary role player. He's kicking some ass coming off the bench.

Bonner is a role player and a great 3 point shooter. His D sucks and yes we all know he hustles his ass off, but he is physically limited. He looks even worse when he's up against the elite bigs. Last year Pop had no choice but to start him, and it was painfully obvious Bonner had many limitations as a starter.

However, Bonner off the bench is glorious. He is fulfilling that role very well. I hope Pop continues to have him come off the bench, and lets McDyess start with Timmy where Dice truly belongs. Thus, allowing Bonner to flourish as a bench player, and Dice to set the tone of the game teaming with Timmy for some tough D.

[TJastal]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that whatever the happy medium for the number of minutes Matt Bonner should be playing is, it doesn't matter whether he gets some of those minutes as a member of the starting lineup or not. How many minutes he plays is the issue, not when he plays those minutes.

Well you are an idiot then. It's plain as day to see... look at Bonner's production as a non-starter the past 3 games as opposed to all the games dating back to the last half of last year when the burden of starting really started taking its toll. Is it a coincidence since he's been coming off the bench he looks more comfortable, confident, and his whole game has picked up? I think not.

[portnoy1]

I dont like Bonner starting but Him coming off the bench may work. Only if he hustles for rebounds like he did the last 2 games. Vs the Raptors he only grabbed 4rbs but he hustled and tipped balls, ala DBlair style. Vs the Mavs he was actually able to grab some of those same balls he tipped against the Raptors. If his shot isnt going he seems to not be able to do mcuh else. If Bonner would hustle every minute regardless of his shot that would be great. His defense is Ok as long as he doesn't play against legitimate threats like Gasol/Dirk(he didnt do to bad on him although Dice did better)Odom/Lewis.

[Obstructed_View]

Bonner is a very good player, I think all anyone with any sense ever suggested is that he's not a starting-caliber NBA big. He's actually more valuable to the Spurs off the bench, as he's an excellent energy guy, as evidenced by last night. Being able to throw him in there and say "Go after every rebound, shoot when you're open, don't worry about fouls" is a luxury.

[coyotes_geek]

Well you are an idiot then. It's plain as day to see... look at Bonner's production as a non-starter the past 3 games as opposed to all the games dating back to the last half of last year when the burden of starting really started taking its toll. Is it a coincidence since he's been coming off the bench he looks more comfortable, confident, and his whole game has picked up? I think not.

:lol at you getting butt hurt and going to the personal insult card over someone disagreeing with you. Grow up.

As for the topic at hand, if you go look at Bonner's career splits, there's zero difference in his productivity whether he comes off the bench or starts. All his shooting percentages stay the same. His points and rebounds track the same on a per minute basis as well. He's the same player. And that 300+ games worth of history, not 3.

Hell, if we want to go with just the last 3 games as the trend then you should be lobbying for Bonner to be playing more. I mean look how well he played when he got 30 minutes. Certainly that must be proof that him getting 30 minutes a game off the bench is better than him getting 20 as a starter.

[Spursmania]

bonner is a very good player, i think all anyone with any sense ever suggested is that he's not a starting-caliber nba big. He's actually more valuable to the spurs off the bench, as he's an excellent energy guy, as evidenced by last night. Being able to throw him in there and say "go after every rebound, shoot when you're open, don't worry about fouls" is a luxury.

+1

[Chomag]

Bonner is a 3pt bomber and thats very nice to have comming from your bench. However his skills is a redundency when you have Finely, and Mason on the floor at the same time.

Mad props to his play lately. I'm not holding my breath untill Tim is back in the line up and we get to see what Pop will do.

[Borosai]

Gotta dust off the old sig...

[TJastal]

:lol at you getting butt hurt and going to the personal insult card over someone disagreeing with you. Grow up.

As for the topic at hand, if you go look at Bonner's career splits, there's zero difference in his productivity whether he comes off the bench or starts. All his shooting percentages stay the same. His points and rebounds track the same on a per minute basis as well. He's the same player. And that 300+ games worth of history, not 3.

Hell, if we want to go with just the last 3 games as the trend then you should be lobbying for Bonner to be playing more. I mean look how well he played when he got 30 minutes. Certainly that must be proof that him getting 30 minutes a game off the bench is better than him getting 20 as a starter.

If Bonner keeps bringing that kind of energy, hustle and production off the bench I will lobby to have him play more minutes off the bench.

You can rattle off all the statistics you want but your not going to convince me that his promotion to the starting lineup has been a successful endeavor.

It's just too much to ask for a guy with limited mobility, hops, and athleticism to go toe to toe with the league's best centers on a nightly basis. That's a big responsibility and alot of pressure, and Matt Bonner is simply overmatched most nights.

[coyotes_geek]

If Bonner keeps bringing that kind of energy, hustle and production off the bench I will lobby to have him play more minutes off the bench.

You can rattle off all the statistics you want but your not going to convince me that his promotion to the starting lineup has been a successful endeavor.

It's just too much to ask for a guy with limited mobility, hops, and athleticism to go toe to toe with the league's best centers on a nightly basis. That's a big responsibility and alot of pressure, and Matt Bonner is simply overmatched most nights.

Was the unsuccessful endeavor Matt Bonner in the starting lineup? Or was it having to rely on Matt Bonner for 24 mpg? If Pop came out and said that Bonner was only going to play 12 minutes a night and he did so between the 9 minute to 6 minute mark every quarter, then most people here would be fine with that. But if Pop decides to play Bonner 12 minutes a night between the 12 minute and the 9 minute mark then all of a sudden people start running for the hills because "Matt Bonner is our starting center". IMO that's irrational, especially considering how some Spurs fans will go ballistic any time someone brings up the notion of the Spurs actually inserting their most qualified shooting guard into the starting lineup.

At the end of the day I don't care whether Bonner starts or not. I don't care because I don't think it matters so long as he's not being overused over the course of the entire game. You do. Fair enough. We disagree.

[Obstructed_View]

You can rattle off all the statistics you want but your not going to convince me that his promotion to the starting lineup has been a successful endeavor.


Matt Bonner's promotion to the starting lineup was evidence of the lack of depth this team had last year in the frontcourt; he was an upgrade over moving Duncan to center and starting Fin at the 4 full time. His going back to a bench role is evidence that the new bigs are starting to figure out the defense.

[z0sa]

Like I've said all along, Bonner will go back to the bench where he can surely play well. You bonner-hating cunts end up wrong, per the usual, but let me leave you for the cliche "he's a totally liability on defense even though I have no clue about the actual facts and I'm a completely retarded player evaluator".

[all_heart]

I think you didn't get it. :) (Or maybe you did.)

Now I do! Good one.:lol

[TJastal]

Like I've said all along, Bonner will go back to the bench where he can surely play well. You bonner-hating cunts end up wrong, per the usual, but let me leave you for the cliche "he's a totally liability on defense even though I have no clue about the actual facts and I'm a completely retarded player evaluator".

So what you're saying is Bonner should go back being a bench player where he can actually have a chance to compete against other bench level talent around the league?

Exactly what us "Bonner hating cunts" have been saying all along should happen. :lol

[SCdac]

Bonner coming off the bench will help the flow of the game IMO. We should make teams have a tough cover in the paint at the start of game, with Tim, McDyess, and Blair, then bring Bonner out and further complicate things drawing substitute bigs out to the three point line, while Ginobili and Jefferson can slash easier.

[borders]

I'm tellin ya. Too early to judge Bonner. No pressure yet. Lets see him perform in the playoffs first.

[mesothorny]

Matt Bonner's promotion to the starting lineup was evidence of the lack of depth this team had last year in the frontcourt; he was an upgrade over moving Duncan to center and starting Fin at the 4 full time. His going back to a bench role is evidence that the new bigs are starting to figure out the defense.

Exactly.

Our offseason roster upgrade specifically addressed Bonner's and Finley's starting spots and our over-reliance on them last year, so let's see where things go from here. The sky isn't falling.