Sad To Say But Clearly Tim and Tony Are The Problems

[edgar]

The spurs will not win shit with tim and Tony consuming all the shots. They take away from better athletic players like Jefferson and George Hill. The defense sets in when we post up tim. Tim should not be our main weapon anymore. On to parker. He is coming off an injury but this same shit happened last year. We lost him for 5 games or so and plugged in George. We were getting team chemistry goin and then Tony comes bak and messes that shit up to. Tony should focus on distributing to better and healthier players when his game aint going on as opposed to trying to break off his shooting rust..pathetic. RJ dissapears thanks to Tim and Tony. RJ shouldnt adjust to Tim and Tony..Tim and Tony must adjust to him and the rest of T.E.A.M

[Punkkboy44]

Well said..I agree 100%.

[HarlemHeat37]

Duncan and RJ actually had a good amount of plays together tonight..a lot of handoffs up top, and Duncan looked to get it to him after he'd get it in the high-post..it just wasn't there..Duncan played an efficient game tonight, and he wasn't stopping the ball, so there shouldn't be any criticism there..

It's not on Tony and Tim to adjust though, it's on the coach..

Jefferson's game isn't suited to be dribbling up top and getting by his man..that's not his game..he can do it once in a while, but that's not his style, and it's not efficient enough to be that of a #1 scorer..that's what he's doing in these bad games though..he's also becoming a spot-up shooter next to Tim and Tony..

Pop is the coach..he needs to mix it up..Jefferson's game is best suited when he catches the ball on the move to the basket, when he comes off screens for curls, when he catches it in the post..that's the adjustment he has to make..

Tony is a shoot-first PG, so it's not going to be easy to mix them together..Pop is one of the best though, so he'll get it..

[Sean Cagney]

Duncan played well though. Tony hogging the damn ball like he is Iverson is the problem and was sometimes last year, he plays too much one and one and gets a bad shot in the end.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

rj is a slasher NOT a spot up...tp is treating him like finley and others..this takes away a lot of rj's slashing ability...coz by the time tp hand the ball to rj, there just isn't enough time on the clock for rj to get his shots anymore...tp + rj is just not a good combo thus far offensively ...coaches need to work them better together...

[spursfan09]

I agree with the notion that this isn't a player personnel problem. It's a coach problem.

[SenorSpur]

Manu is clearly the best passer on the team. RJ, and to some extent Blair, have benefited from being on the court with him.

I so agree with the recent Buck Harvey article, where he stated that inasmuch as RJ was going to have to adjust to playing with TP and TD, THEY would also have to do likewise. Couldn't agree more.

All the players, but TP, specifically, need to look for RJ and ensure he's involved. He's already shown what a valuable weapon he'll be to this team. It's stupid to have him on the court as an expesive decoy.

[HarlemHeat37]

It's not exactly Tony's fault..he has a coach..

[edgar]

A coach that still plays Finley over a younger Roger Mason Jr?! PATHETIC

[Warlord23]

^^ Exactly. Let's stop blaming the players. If the team as a whole is less than the sum of the individual parts, it's a coaching problem. I'm surprised Spurs fans are still taking it easy on Pop given his recent track record:
- Giving Finley more minutes through the last 2 seasons
- Giving Bonner more minutes
- Not playing Hill enough last season, especially in the playoff loss vs Dallas

Pop got it right when he said something to the effect of "If We Don't Win, I should be Fired"

[SenorSpur]

This is not intended to blame TP. However, he IS the PG and as such, a coach on the floor, to a large degree. Therefore, his responsibilities of quarterbacking the team include sensing when his teammates are getting off, who is on a roll, running the offense, taking advantage of defensive mismatches, etc.

Of course, he's a shoot-first PG. Up until this year, he's had to be. Let's face it - TP can and will get his offense, when he's in rhythm, anytime he wants. Now, he's got more weapons at his disposal than at any time since he's been a Spur. It's probably time to adjust a bit.

[ElNono]

I believe the last time the Spurs had this much talent starting, Pop never really found a solution, other than sending one of the players to the bench (Manu). I would really hate to see RJ coming off the bench because we can't make him anything but a spot up three point shooter while he's out there with Tim and Tony.

[edgar]

Oh yea and poor Tony he doesnt know when he has to pass.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

Clearly.

[HarlemHeat37]

I believe the last time the Spurs had this much talent starting, Pop never really found a solution, other than sending one of the players to the bench (Manu). I would really hate to see RJ coming off the bench because we can't make him anything but a spot up three point shooter while he's out there with Tim and Tony.

It might come down to having Manu start and RJ off the bench..

[ducks]

tp assist were up last year
he can pass

[SequSpur]

Another night Tim Duncan shoud've broke Robinson 70 pt record... I mean come the fuck on already...no one on the court could guard him and the offense is ran through bonner...

wtf?

[Sean Cagney]

It's not exactly Tony's fault..he has a coach..

A coach who hasn't won a thing since that guy PJ left.... Hmmmmmmmmmmm. I like Pop but as far as a coach goes on offense at times he leaves alot to be desired, some of his plays and decisions are very questionable.

[Sean Cagney]

tp assist were up last year
he can pass

Yeah he CAN Pass, but he also can dribble the clock out like Francis used to do and shoot a bad shot, he plays too much one on one alot of times.

I am a Parker fan, but sometimes I question his decisions with the ball.

[pjjrfan]

Yes I agree that Tony took to many shots, but Jefferson had a lot of touches and all he did for the most part was get rid of the ball as quickly as he got it. And Manu looks like he is hurt again. And Sequ is absolutely correct about Tim the numbers are deceiving, Tim was never a factor on offense or on defense. he should have absolutely killed Collison and Nened.

[SenorSpur]

It might come down to having Manu start and RJ off the bench..

Don't think so. Besides, the Spurs have demonstrated some difficulty generating offense in half-court, on occasion. We saw that tonight. Sending RJ to the bench wouldn't help.

[lefty]

Oh noes !!!!






OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mattb_25]

TP still thinks he is playing against the Mavs in the playoffs from what it looks like.... He has a great weapon in RJ and needs to try to get him in the game..

[Dunc n Dave]

A coach that still plays Finley over a younger Roger Mason Jr?! PATHETIC

Is finley shooting 22% from 3 and 28% overall from the field? Oh no, wait that's Mason...

[Budkin]

The fact is that these particular players don't play well together.

[DAF86]

TP isn't and will never be a true PG, he doesn't have the court vision nor the mentality of a PG, he dribles too much and a lot of times doesn't make the pass when he has to. He's a scorer (a great one) and that's why he is so important for this team most of the times, but when he isn't on, he hurts the team a lot 'cause, let's face it, he doesn't have the hability to make teammates better when his own shot isn't falling.

[SenorSpur]

TP isn't and will never be a true PG, he doesn't have the court vision nor the mentality of a PG, he dribles too much and a lot of times doesn't make the pass when he has to. He's a scorer (a great one) and that's why he is so important for this team most of the times, but when he isn't on, he hurts the team a lot 'cause, let's face it, he doesn't have the hability to make teammates better when his own shot isn't falling.

Then Pop may be forced to start Manu. Need a playmaker on the floor and that's about the best chance RJ will have of getting involved in the offense.

[spursfan09]

1. These players haven't even really had time to get to know eachother.
2. RJ needs to not defer to Tim and Tony
3. Please don't be hurt Manu... why the bad game, after a great game?
4. Spur fans over react

[JustinJDW]

Our problem is inconsistency. Sometimes players play good, sometimes they don't. Richard Jefferson is the perfect example. Against the Mavs, he put up 29 points. That's amazing.

Against the Thunder, he puts up 4 points. Manu didn't help either with his 0-8. Why people are blaming Tim and Tony when they are the only reasons we stayed in the game is beyond me.

Inconsistency is our problem.

[TheChillFactor]

dude it's their first game back! we will be fine. fake ass spurs fans

[JustinJDW]

Richard Jefferson should be more involved. He only took four shots tonight. After a 29 point game? That's not right.

Problems like these falls on the Coach Pop and Tony Parker, since he is the PG and the Floor General. He should definitely get RJ involved more often and early, since it's clear he has trouble inserting himself later in games.

Parker handles the ball too much.

PS: Starting Blair was also a stupid idea.

[sa_kid20]

TP isn't and will never be a true PG, he doesn't have the court vision nor the mentality of a PG, he dribles too much and a lot of times doesn't make the pass when he has to. He's a scorer (a great one) and that's why he is so important for this team most of the times, but when he isn't on, he hurts the team a lot 'cause, let's face it, he doesn't have the hability to make teammates better when his own shot isn't falling.

I agree 100%. Tony is definitely going to have to adjust a little bit and be more of a distributor than previous years. Tony is a great scorer and we're still gonna need him to be that in the long run but his decision making looks like it needs a little work right now. It's still early though and I'm still confident that eventually this team will all be on the same page when it matters most, but it looks like its gonna be process that may take some time.

[Stringer_Bell]

Remember when media reports were talking about the Spurs going away from plays and going more on instinct? I think that's what we saw in the two previous games. The team with TP/Tim was less concerned with setting things up and more concerned with finding wholes and blowing shit up.

That said, I love TP's swagger and I don't think it's ALL his fault. Tim is the quietest player on the court, but still manages to put up good numbers. Like someone else said, TP/Tim need to figure out how to work with RJ. I always figured people getting used to Manu would be the biggest hurdle, but it's clearly that we take too much time setting shit up and not getting results from our new cast members.

We have the weapons, we got jabs and we got hooks, but coaches gotta figure out the right combos.

[jesterbobman]

The Sky is falling, the Sky is falling. We lost to a young team that had a 4-4 record coming in that is 4th in defensive efficieny, has guys that are matchup problems for us, are tall all over the court, have decent depth, and an emerging star that can take over games and get a shot off versus anybody. Russell Westbrook, who has so far been either great or horrible, had a good game.

But I thought we were going 79-3, and there would be no issues with people getting back and getting in synch with the rest of the team. We should obviously just force Tim to retire and trade/ release Tony, we're 2-0 without them, obviously we'd be the champion with them out.

While we're at it, we should replace Pop with Byron Scott, he won coach of the year recently, have Isiah Thomas replace RC Buford, and convince Sterling and Holt to trade Franchises.

Because, obviously, after 9 games we know definitively the outcome of the season.

[duhoh]

clearly you guys are smarter than a 4 time championship coach. spot on.

[antimvp]

parker is a one trick pony and you take away that trick he's got nothing else.

[antimvp]

tony parker's go to move.

Cx9n6P0cx1Y

[duncan228]

The Sky is falling, the Sky is falling.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/gifs/chickenlittlegif.gif

[antimvp]

trade parker for paquiao

[completely deck]

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/gifs/chickenlittlegif.gif

:rollin

I love imagining these people creating/contributing to these threads.

http://i35.tinypic.com/doq3rb.jpg

WE LOST BY A ONE POSSESSION SHOT?? EGAD!

[barbacoataco]

I thought the problem was more on the defensive end. The Spurs didn't have anywhere near the intensity needed and they couldn't get stops when they had to. I'm not sure that DUncan and Parker were the problem, but something is.

[SpurmzKilla]

The spurs will not win shit with tim and Tony consuming all the shots. They take away from better athletic players like Jefferson and George Hill. The defense sets in when we post up tim. Tim should not be our main weapon anymore. On to parker. He is coming off an injury but this same shit happened last year. We lost him for 5 games or so and plugged in George. We were getting team chemistry goin and then Tony comes bak and messes that shit up to. Tony should focus on distributing to better and healthier players when his game aint going on as opposed to trying to break off his shooting rust..pathetic. RJ dissapears thanks to Tim and Tony. RJ shouldnt adjust to Tim and Tony..Tim and Tony must adjust to him and the rest of T.E.A.M

Clearly they are. They are old. Your team has been old for 10 years it's about time you realized. DUh. Time to trade in the useless spurm chips and get a real team. Your franchise player is a joke who can't jump. You don't stand a chance against the RAINING NBA CHAMPS. Just try to play small ball. HAH. Small balls from the Spurmz.

Laker Nation

[DirkISaCocLuvinPuSSy]

Tim and Tony need to come off the bench you know it I know it, their to one dimensional now, Manu and Hill should start while Blair and Dyss fill the front, problem solved yaay!!!!! GO TEAM!!!!! of course pop wont ever ponder that thought, cuz Timmy and Tony are hero's, got us 3 rings and have took'n less money to win, so were gunna have to hope they work it out with TD and TP on A-Team. Dont get me wrong either I know Hill & Blair are yungin's who wont be so tuff in the summer, but of course TD MANU and TP should be on the floor in the clutch but the kidz are too dope for limited role player acts.and im not gunna lie Hill's major improvement and number 8's lousy play have made me down with movin Mase and TP, for wut thats anutta thread.

:soapbox:

[Mr.Robinson]

Clearly they are. They are old. Your team has been old for 10 years it's about time you realized. DUh. Time to trade in the useless spurm chips and get a real team. Your franchise player is a joke who can't jump. You don't stand a chance against the RAINING NBA CHAMPS. Just try to play small ball. HAH. Small balls from the Spurmz.

Laker Nation

"Raining" Champs.LOL WTF is this shit?

[DirkISaCocLuvinPuSSy]

Clearly they are. They are old. Your team has been old for 10 years it's about time you realized. DUh. Time to trade in the useless spurm chips and get a real team. Your franchise player is a joke who can't jump. You don't stand a chance against the RAINING NBA CHAMPS. Just try to play small ball. HAH. Small balls from the Spurmz.

Laker Nation

haha ur gay :blah:blah......spurmchips.......niiiiicceeee

[spurspokesman]

Then Pop may be forced to start Manu. Need a playmaker on the floor and that's about the best chance RJ will have of getting involved in the offense.

Sad but I think rj should come of the bench with hill. Parker takes away just as much as he gives. Rj made his name playing alongside one of the greatest passers this league has seen. Tony parker is not that. Hill has a little more in the passing dept and will readily give it to rj. We suffer from oddly matched talent

[portnoy1]

This is why i was skepticle about the spurs trading for RJ. Our defense still isnt right, and offensively were up and down cause of our personnel. When the RJ trade happened i was excited cause we had another weapon and more importantly manu insurance. But alot of folks were talking about TP and RJ hooking up for alley-oops and stuff to that effect. Thats not TPs game just like being a spot up shooter isnt RJ's game. I was hoping for a combo trade with us getting back two role players instead a big-gun allstar. A defensive stopper and a Big. I was thinking 1 - Battier/Scola 2 - Pryzbilla/Outlaw 3 Murphy/Jones. That way TP would not be obligated to pass the rock and the other players wouldnt be affected. With RJ getting him on the move in the halfcourt or leaking out for a dunk is his thing. TP looks to score in the halfcourt and is a one-man fastbreak (which has been very effective). That doesnt leave much for RJ.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol at all the posters on here who think RJ should be relegated to the bench, fuck that

the player who should be making way is TP

[portnoy1]

lol at all the posters on here who think RJ should be relegated to the bench, fuck that

the player who should be making way is TP
I kinda agree, but be careful bro those are fighting words to many in spurstalk.:ihit:ihit:ihit:ihit:ihit:ihit:ihit:ihit :ihit:ihit

[DAF86]

lol at all the posters on here who think RJ should be relegated to the bench, fuck that

the player who should be making way is TP

I don't know about that. Clearly RJ feels better when he isn't playing alongside TP and TD, maybe coming off the bench and beign the go to guy on his first minutes in the game will help him to gain confidence for the rest of the game, and hopefully that confidence will give help him to mesh better with our stars for the final minutes when we'll need our best players playing toghether.

Benching RJ and starting Manu may not be a bad idea.

[portnoy1]

RJ needs touches. Thats the bottom line, He is not an impact player like Manu who doesnt need the ball and can still be HIGHLY effective. Feeding him in the High post area or coming of screens should work for him. For that to happen Pop/TP have to call plays for the guy. Other than that he is a more expensive Bruce Bowen that can finish at the Rim. $14million is way to much for a Bowen 2.0

[ginobili fan]

Duncan and RJ actually had a good amount of plays together tonight..a lot of handoffs up top, and Duncan looked to get it to him after he'd get it in the high-post..it just wasn't there..Duncan played an efficient game tonight, and he wasn't stopping the ball, so there shouldn't be any criticism there..

It's not on Tony and Tim to adjust though, it's on the coach..

Jefferson's game isn't suited to be dribbling up top and getting by his man..that's not his game..he can do it once in a while, but that's not his style, and it's not efficient enough to be that of a #1 scorer..that's what he's doing in these bad games though..he's also becoming a spot-up shooter next to Tim and Tony..

Pop is the coach..he needs to mix it up..Jefferson's game is best suited when he catches the ball on the move to the basket, when he comes off screens for curls, when he catches it in the post..that's the adjustment he has to make..

Tony is a shoot-first PG, so it's not going to be easy to mix them together..Pop is one of the best though, so he'll get it..

But I'm tired to read people say Tony is shoot-first PG because he is.
I know he's a shoot first PG but this is just bullshit.
THis is just a name you put to players for the scouts or media.
I mean POP fashioned Tony in that way that doesn' mean he can't make good assists. We know he just love driving but we all know that he can make good plays to others.
It's just the system. Fuck the system:bang:bang:downspin::bang:hat and POP too.
I can't believe with all the talent he has he can't pass the damn ball!!!
Wake up Tp wake up Pop!!!

Besides I agree with you harlem

[weebo]

I've said this before. Pop needs to bring Parker off the bench and start Manu as the 2 gaurd and Hill at the point. Parker is a shoot first ask questions later point gaurd. He's great at what he does and would absolutely torch any second team he goes up against.

Starting Lineup:
TD-PF
Mcd-C
RJ-SF
Manu-SG
Hill-PG

Second Team:
Blair-PF
Bonner/Ratliff-C
Finely/Bogans-SF
Mason/Bogans-SG
Parker-PG

However, I don't know if Parker's ego would let him come off the bench. It's obvious this is the way Pop should go if he is serious about winning another title.

[Horse]

I'm not worrying till after the all-star break the new pieces just have to fit together.

[Doctor J]

I've said this before. Pop needs to bring Parker off the bench and start Manu as the 2 gaurd and Hill at the point. Parker is a shoot first ask questions later point gaurd. He's great at what he does and would absolutely torch any second team he goes up against.

Starting Lineup:
TD-PF
Mcd-C
RJ-SF
Manu-SG
Hill-PG

Second Team:
Blair-PF
Bonner/Ratliff-C
Finely/Bogans-SF
Mason/Bogans-SG
Parker-PG

However, I don't know if Parker's ego would let him come off the bench. It's obvious this is the way Pop should go if he is serious about winning another title.


Agreed!

I said the same thing few days ago.

And I suddenly became a crazy man here.

[ulosturedge]

We will just have to suffer until Parker finds his groove. If he continues to struggle then Pop will bench him.

I think the big difference is the ball movement and player motion was much better when Tim and Tony were out. When they are in there is alot more isolation plays and stationed plays with Tim working the post rather then a spread offense.

Pop is going to continue to let Parker do what he can to find his groove. And he should. You can't just throw away Parker. That would disrupt the team psyche. Yeah we are going to suffer until then, but something will give and we will move on from there.

Its too early to start panicking. Are you guys really that surprised we are struggling this early. Remember that Lakers roster that was decked with Shaq, Kobe, Malone, and Payton. Just because you have alot of talent doesn't mean everything is just going to go off without a hitch.

[TJastal]

I've said this before. Pop needs to bring Parker off the bench and start Manu as the 2 gaurd and Hill at the point. Parker is a shoot first ask questions later point gaurd. He's great at what he does and would absolutely torch any second team he goes up against.

Starting Lineup:
TD-PF
Mcd-C
RJ-SF
Manu-SG
Hill-PG

Second Team:
Blair-PF
Bonner/Ratliff-C
Finely/Bogans-SF
Mason/Bogans-SG
Parker-PG

However, I don't know if Parker's ego would let him come off the bench. It's obvious this is the way Pop should go if he is serious about winning another title.

Nice thought, but you might as well forget it.. Popovich is just like the pathetic fanbois in this forum, he'd never dare mess with Parker's delicate ego. Maybe after another year or so of watching Parker's game morph into Iverson's (minus the defense) he might start to consider it. But that's a ways off yet.

[DAF86]

Agreed!

I said the same thing few days ago.

And I suddenly became a crazy man here.

Funny that the idea of Manu coming off the bench seems so rational and smart, but when somebody mentions the idea of Tony coming off the bench that person becomes a lunatic. It just shows you that people in here are either hypocrites, Pop apologists or just plain dumb.

However I don't think that benching Tony is the answer.

[timaios]

And all that after 1 game...
It's ridiculous.

[edgar]

The best solution would be to leave Tony and Tim in the starting lineup alongside michael finley, matt bonner, and and Roger Mason Jr. Then our second unit of George Hill, Manu Ginobili, Richard Jefferson, Bogans and Antonio McDyess. Try this for a couple a days and see which unit gets you more games and better results overall. Clearly the 2nd unit will ALWAYS outperform the 1st one. And for all you stupidass fans who keep saying oh its just one game and its early..Wake the fuck up! Its the Western Fucking Conference! Theres little room to experiment and fucks just cus pop cant realize that tim and tony should not take up too many shots when they are struggling. Tim was productive somewhat yesterday but its pathetic to see how we have to work for everything becuz we have to set up the ball for him all the time. You have Jefferson as a main weapon too you know..use him!

[callo1]

Wow, I seriously do not know where to start with this post. Tim and Tony are the "problems"?

Tim Duncan last night went 9-14 shooting, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks, 22 points. I wonder how many teams in the league wish they had that "problem".

Tony had problems with the length of the Thunder, but still had a decent game putting up 17 points and 5 assists. Remember, Tony was out longer than Timmy, and plays floor general, it will take more time to get back in sync.

Play more Roger Mason over Finley?

Finley was playing good defense last night, as he has all year. Did you not see him denying his man the ball?

What is RMJ going to do, put up a quick three as soon as he enters the game from 25 feet?

RMJ is the worst defender on the roster...behind Bonner even. At least Bonner tries.

Does it really matter who is "consuming" the shots if they go in at a high rate like TD had last night?

Close to getting "team chemistry" going with one decent win against Dallas without Timmy and Tony and somehow that constitutes "chemistry"?

Ask and find out how many GMs would love to have the two "problems" of Tony and Timmy.


It might come down to having Manu start and RJ off the bench..

I can see that, as RJ, DB, and George Hill would be a nice backup unit, and Tony, Timmy, and Manu know each other best.

I agree with the poster that mentioned Manu on the bench in crunch time was wrong. Manu is like Horry was, he can go O'fer the entire night, but he needs to be in in a close game in crunch time.


I'm not worrying till after the all-star break the new pieces just have to fit together.

The voice of reason. Thanks Horse.
It will take time getting this team where it needs to be, don't be impatient.

Ps: Trade Mason and let Hairston get his minutes.

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

I do agree that tim shouldnt be our main weapon anymore, pop is so damn hardheaded

[callo1]

The best solution would be to leave Tony and Tim in the starting lineup alongside michael finley, matt bonner, and and Roger Mason Jr. Then our second unit of George Hill, Manu Ginobili, Richard Jefferson, Bogans and Antonio McDyess. Try this for a couple a days and see which unit gets you more games and better results overall. Clearly the 2nd unit will ALWAYS outperform the 1st one. And for all you stupidass fans who keep saying oh its just one game and its early..Wake the fuck up! Its the Western Fucking Conference! Theres little room to experiment and fucks just cus pop cant realize that tim and tony should not take up too many shots when they are struggling. Tim was productive somewhat yesterday but its pathetic to see how we have to work for everything becuz we have to set up the ball for him all the time. You have Jefferson as a main weapon too you know..use him!

Wow, being such a nice guy is so hard to do with a posters like this:)

The best "solution" is to use the enter button every "know" and then so we don't have to read all this nonsense in the jumbled state you present it in.

Somehow everyone who doesn't agree with your insane, moronic posts are stupida*s fans?

There's this thing called proper English...try it some time,it works wonders for communication. If in need of help "becuz" of low I.Q. or something, create the post in Microsoft Word, let the software correct all of your jibberish, then post a coherent couple of paragraphs.

Thank you for your time.

[Dice]

I think people are forgetting that, for a long time, Tony and Tim WERE the offense. For years now everything has run through them with a couple of spot up shooters and Manu off the bench. That's the style of play they're used to and it's going to take a while to get that fixed.

It was clear last night that the guys like George Hill and Richard Jefferson were not getting the ball in the same places that they did in the previous games. Also, Tim didn't do as good of a job clearing out of the lane when guys were cutting in as the replacements did (sometimes it worked out, sometimes it cluttered the cutter). Tony took more shots than I would have liked but no more than he has been for many seasons now.

I also thought this game was just one the Spurs blew. Lots of inside shots that just didn't fall that would have been huge. And did anyone keep track of how many times the Spurs turned over the ball driving into the lane? Not to mention the Thunder had a player (see: Refs) that was able to get the team uncontested shots from the free throw line all night.

The only thing that really bothered me was the defense. When certain players are in, the Spurs play great team defense. I don't think I have to name any names.

Also agree with everyone that thought Manu should have been in at the end, regardless to how he'd played.

[TIMMYD!]

It's Tony's and Pop's fault.

[spursfan09]

BS. Tony is always the goat here when we lose.

[edgar]

CULO1 I mean CALO1 this one is for you. "STFU". Its called replying in txt mode you fucktard. Im on a cell phone

[callo1]

CULO1 I mean CALO1 this one is for you. "STFU". Its called replying in txt mode you fucktard. Im on a cell phone

No doubt, talking to Pop, RC, and all the other NBA head coaches and GMs about how they know nothing and how you can come in and fix any woes they may have.

I'm sure Pop is hanging on every word you speak, and will no doubt have Tim and Tony on the next plane ride out of San Antonio since they are the "problems". :lol

[NBA Fanatic]

Tim and Tony are clearly the problem? That is funny, they return to the lineup for the first time in over a week and it is their fault that the Spurs lose a close game to a young, talented, and athletic team. Was it also their fault when they led the Spurs to their last two NBA Championships? The season is just beginning there is no need to panic or make rash judgements.

[edgar]

Not necessarly CuLo1 pop aint as easy to talk to cuz he is a hard head..but boy your mom was something else..she hangs at every word I say haha. If only pop was the same..ahh

[peskypesky]

this is why i made my thread a couple of weeks ago saying RJ should be the #1 option for the Spurs.

[ducks]

spurs won with tp and duncan being the option
so now they have rf
they should scrap that and make him the franchise?

[lennyalderette]

well we give credit to tony when he does good, but all of my friends saw how tony wouldnt give the damn ball up!! im serious bonner was wide open for a three to tie it and tony just fucking had to take an off balance shot hoping for a 2pt foul? i mean i saw him neglect the fuck out of r.j!! he straight up was not sharing that ball, people that didnt even know basketball were saying "why is tony being a ball hog" im telling you guys parker is jealous of hill and something is not right with him.

[ducks]

yeah booner is so clutch in 4 quarter NOT

[ATXSPUR]

Calm down. I don't see why people get so worked up over things happening in early November. It's a long way til April guys. Hell, i'm still focusing on college football season right now. At least give the guys until after the all star break.

[quentin_compson]

The best solution would be to leave Tony and Tim in the starting lineup alongside michael finley, matt bonner, and and Roger Mason Jr. Then our second unit of George Hill, Manu Ginobili, Richard Jefferson, Bogans and Antonio McDyess. Try this for a couple a days and see which unit gets you more games and better results overall. Clearly the 2nd unit will ALWAYS outperform the 1st one. And for all you stupidass fans who keep saying oh its just one game and its early..Wake the fuck up! Its the Western Fucking Conference! Theres little room to experiment and fucks just cus pop cant realize that tim and tony should not take up too many shots when they are struggling. Tim was productive somewhat yesterday but its pathetic to see how we have to work for everything becuz we have to set up the ball for him all the time. You have Jefferson as a main weapon too you know..use him!

Yeah, because it is a very good thing to have a S5 that ALWAYS (as you put it) gets outperformed by the second unit. :downspin:

Sure, why not start the game with three defensive liabilities (Fin, Bonner, Mason J.). Maybe the guys we play will laugh so hard at us pulling the same shit as last year they will actually forget to score.

And Tim wasn't "somewhat productive" against OKC, he just played great. If the Spurs had gotten him more shots in the fourth, they might have ended up with a win.

[angelbelow]

I think people are forgetting that, for a long time, Tony and Tim WERE the offense. For years now everything has run through them with a couple of spot up shooters and Manu off the bench. That's the style of play they're used to and it's going to take a while to get that fixed.

It was clear last night that the guys like George Hill and Richard Jefferson were not getting the ball in the same places that they did in the previous games. Also, Tim didn't do as good of a job clearing out of the lane when guys were cutting in as the replacements did (sometimes it worked out, sometimes it cluttered the cutter). Tony took more shots than I would have liked but no more than he has been for many seasons now.

I also thought this game was just one the Spurs blew. Lots of inside shots that just didn't fall that would have been huge. And did anyone keep track of how many times the Spurs turned over the ball driving into the lane? Not to mention the Thunder had a player (see: Refs) that was able to get the team uncontested shots from the free throw line all night.

The only thing that really bothered me was the defense. When certain players are in, the Spurs play great team defense. I don't think I have to name any names.

Also agree with everyone that thought Manu should have been in at the end, regardless to how he'd played.

this is a good post

[My Fault]

Lol @ bring an all-star PG off the bench. Why do some Spurs fans seem to wanna throw the craziest of things out there after every lost. Seriously watch some more basketball other than the Spurs more often and maybe some of you will get a grip of the game of basketball.

[ElNono]

Lol @ bring an all-star PG off the bench. Why do some Spurs fans seem to wanna throw the craziest of things out there after every lost. Seriously watch some more basketball other than the Spurs more often and maybe some of you will get a grip of the game of basketball.

I watched the Clippers beat OKC today. Does that count?

[SA210]

The spurs will not win shit with tim and Tony consuming all the shots. They take away from better athletic players like Jefferson and George Hill. The defense sets in when we post up tim. Tim should not be our main weapon anymore. On to parker. He is coming off an injury but this same shit happened last year. We lost him for 5 games or so and plugged in George. We were getting team chemistry goin and then Tony comes bak and messes that shit up to. Tony should focus on distributing to better and healthier players when his game aint going on as opposed to trying to break off his shooting rust..pathetic. RJ dissapears thanks to Tim and Tony. RJ shouldnt adjust to Tim and Tony..Tim and Tony must adjust to him and the rest of T.E.A.M

[SA210]

I agree with the notion that this isn't a player personnel problem. It's a coach problem.

[spurs4real]

i posted about this same theory on Tony Parker wanting to be like Iverson, I said back then he needs 8 to 9 assists per game in order for his shooting attempts not to hurt us. I said back then trade him while we can get a couple of players mayve even a first round pick for him while we still can.

[AFBlue]

Problem?!?!

The Spurs have too many good or great players...that's a hell of a "problem". :rolleyes The Spurs FO brought in no less than three legitimate talents that deserve any number of touches on offense. That's added to a "big 3" that already dominates the ball.

It's no wonder that less than 10 games into the season the Spurs (players AND coaches) haven't exactly figured out how to get everyone the touches they need and when. But obviously Pop is trying (starting out different lineups and working with different combinations). Give the man some time!

Same message for the players...the new guys are trying to find there way, but the adjustment will take just as much time for the team vets.

Seriously...people need to stop overreacting to early chemistry issues. It will work itself out and the pure talent level on this team won't allow for the Spurs not to be in the thick of the playoff hunt when all is said and done.

[senorglory]

W.t.f.?

[Bukefal]

Tony is trying to run this team like he did the last months of last season. But with these new players and new rotations, it isnt working out (yet). Again, it needs time, they need to adjust.

[portnoy1]

Tony is trying to run this team like he did the last months of last season. But with these new players and new rotations, it isnt working out (yet). Again, it needs time, they need to adjust.

You say time. But time has already shown what to expect. Remember Michael Finley of 04-05 with the Mavs. He was 31 at the time i think. He could shoot the 3 obviously, but he could drive and post and hit midrange pull up jumpers. Immediately once he came to the spurs he became a spot-up shooter that could put the ball on the floor if nessecary. As the seasons with the spurs progressed on he became nothing more than a spot up shooter with additional abilities lost due to non use. RJ is practically the same just not as good a shooter but more athletic. He can drive, post and hit the midrange jumper off the dribble. Sound Familiar? If Pop doesnt take over the playcalling, RJ in a year or 2 will be a shell of his former self. Just like a spur Named Finley who we now bash, but at one time were excited to have. Will that be RJ's fate? its up to TP/Pop.

[mosdef17]

I have been thinking it would be good to see RJ play with the 2nd unit off the bench. You can either leave Manu in 2nd unit too or start him. I was thinking start him. I really like the second unit of:

McDyess
Blair
Jefferson
Mason/Finley?
Hill

They played well together when our stars were out vs. Dallas and the Raptors.

I didn't read this whole thread so I'm sorry if someone else already suggested this.

[Mel_13]

You say time. But time has already shown what to expect. Remember Michael Finley of 04-05 with the Mavs. He was 31 at the time i think. He could shoot the 3 obviously, but he could drive and post and hit midrange pull up jumpers. Immediately once he came to the spurs he became a spot-up shooter that could put the ball on the floor if nessecary. As the seasons with the spurs progressed on he became nothing more than a spot up shooter with additional abilities lost due to non use. RJ is practically the same just not as good a shooter but more athletic. He can drive, post and hit the midrange jumper off the dribble. Sound Familiar? If Pop doesnt take over the playcalling, RJ in a year or 2 will be a shell of his former self. Just like a spur Named Finley who we now bash, but at one time were excited to have. Will that be RJ's fate? its up to TP/Pop.

Utterly ridiculous. You do realize that there are resources available to test your theories before you post them?

Let's distill this post down to the essential two points:

1. The Michael Finley the Spurs signed in 2005 still possessed a diverse offensive game and the Spurs turned him into a spot up shooter.

2. The first eight games of the 09-10 season point to the same fate for RJ.

The first point is absolutely wrong and there are several years of data to prove it. The second point is based on a very small sample size, but the statistics available support an opposite conclusion.

First on Finley. The Finley you say existed in 2004-05 was last seen in 01-02 or 02-03. 82 games has stats going back to the 02-03 season. The following list shows the percentage of Finley's shots that are jump shots compared to close-in shots (jump shots first):

02-03 80/20
03-04 87/13
04/05 89/11

05/06 90/10
06/07 91/9
07/08 93/7
08/09 90/10
09-10 92/8

Finley had stopped getting opportunities close to the basket long before he joined the Spurs. He had also transitioned to the 3 pt game years before he left Dallas. In the five seasons from 97-98 through 01-02, Finley took between 15%-18% of his shots from beyond the 3 pt line. In 02-03 the percent went up to 27% and then was 32% in both 03-04 and 04-05. In his career with Spurs, 3 pointers have accounted for 42% of Finley's shots.

So the changes in Finley's game were clearly well established for at least two seasons before his arrival in San Antonio.

Second, the notion that the a similar fate awaits RJ. We only have eight games worth of data as a Spur to compare to his recent history, but let's see what it tells us.

Jump shot/close in percentages:

06-07 63/37
07-08 62/38
08-09 73/27
09-10 62/38

So, to the extent that one can draw any conclusions from such a small sample size, the percentage of shots that RJ is taking close to the basket perfectly tracks his last three full seasons. As to three pointers, they represented 24% of all his shots in 08-09 and 26% of his shots this year.

Theories debunked.

[portnoy1]

Utterly ridiculous. You do realize that there are resources available to test your theories before you post them?

Let's distill this post down to the essential two points:

1. The Michael Finley the Spurs signed in 2005 still possessed a diverse offensive game and the Spurs turned him into a spot up shooter.

2. The first eight games of the 09-10 season point to the same fate for RJ.

The first point is absolutely wrong and there are several years of data to prove it. The second point is based on a very small sample size, but the statistics available support an opposite conclusion.

First on Finley. The Finley you say existed in 2004-05 was last seen in 01-02 or 02-03. 82 games has stats going back to the 02-03 season. The following list shows the percentage of Finley's shots that are jump shots compared to close-in shots (jump shots first):

02-03 80/20
03-04 87/13
04/05 89/11

05/06 90/10
06/07 91/9
07/08 93/7
08/09 90/10
09-10 92/8

Finley had stopped getting opportunities close to the basket long before he joined the Spurs. He had also transitioned to the 3 pt game years before he left Dallas. In the five seasons from 97-98 through 01-02, Finley took between 15%-18% of his shots from beyond the 3 pt line. In 02-03 the percent went up to 27% and then was 32% in both 03-04 and 04-05. In his career with Spurs, 3 pointers have accounted for 42% of Finley's shots.

So the changes in Finley's game were clearly well established for at least two seasons before his arrival in San Antonio.

Second, the notion that the a similar fate awaits RJ. We only have eight games worth of data as a Spur to compare to his recent history, but let's see what it tells us.

Jump shot/close in percentages:

06-07 63/37
07-08 62/38
08-09 73/27
09-10 62/38

So, to the extent that one can draw any conclusions from such a small sample size, the percentage of shots that RJ is taking close to the basket perfectly tracks his last three full seasons. As to three pointers, they represented 24% of all his shots in 08-09 and 26% of his shots this year.

Theories debunked.
Very Well as always mel_13. Well have to see, but unless a change is made RJ will not be as affective. And maybe I missed something(heck I know I did) in all those numbers you threw out, but could RJ being on track with last season be because of the 2 1/2 games parker sat out when he went wild?

[Spur|n|Austin]

dude it's their first game back! We will be fine. Fake ass spurs fans

+1

[Mel_13]

Very Well as always mel_13. Well have to see, but unless a change is made RJ will not be as affective. And maybe i missed something(heck i know i did) in all those numbers you through out but could RJ being on track with last season be because of the 2 1/2 games parker sat out when he went wild?

Perhaps, but that would be an even smaller sample size. Your perception of what may become of the RJ/Tony pairing may well prove true, but we'll need at least 20-30 games to get any real indication. Tim, Tony, and Manu are all far from their best right now and RJ is still finding his way on the court with them. If everyone is healthy in January and the same problems can be seen, I'll get out on the ledge with you.

[portnoy1]

Perhaps, but that would be an even smaller sample size. Your perception of what may become of the RJ/Tony pairing may well prove true, but we'll need at least 20-30 games to get any real indication. Tim, Tony, and Manu are all far from their best right now and RJ is still finding his way on the court with them. If everyone is healthy in January and the same problems can be seen, I'll get out on the ledge with you.And jump off or what? At least thats what I plan to do if the seemingly best spurs team EVER assembled cant get it together.

[spursfan09]

Geez drama queens...

[easjer]

Oh, ffs.

Players need to time to feel each other and out and gel. Injuries probably set that process back a little, but also gave the players and coaches time to see what the players can do.

If it's so obvious to everyone here, do you think it won't be obvious to Pop, Tony and RJ when they watch tape of the game? Do you think they won't try different combinations and look to see how they can learn to coexist?

Give at least two or three games more with both of them playing before we relegate one or the other to the bench or throw our hands up in despair, shall we?

[easjer]

Additionally, anyone who has been a Spurs fan for years should know that Pop is more than willing to concede the division title and homecourt advantage for the purpose of making the team better in the long run. It may drive you crazy personally, but it's no great secret that they are focused on the end of the season and the playoffs. They don't care if it's the Western Conference and they enter the playoffs at the 6th seed. You may, they don't.

They want to figure out the best rotations and that will take time and it may very well cost them a few games you think they ought to have won. But the focus is not on winning every single game they play so much as building the best team for the playoffs. And I have no doubt they will be in the playoffs, and that really is all that matters. Anything else is a bonus.

Also? It's November. Save the panicking until at least early January, please. It is too early with too many new players in the mix for this kind of crap. Take up knitting or whittling or something else to occupy your time. This is nothing new, y'all.

Finally? OKC played much, much harder on defense than SA did. They crashed the boards harder and were extremely active in trying to disrupt passing lanes and force the offense. The Spurs have to improve their defense overall, and that too will take time.

[TJastal]

Additionally, anyone who has been a Spurs fan for years should know that Pop is more than willing to concede the division title and homecourt advantage for the purpose of making the team better in the long run. It may drive you crazy personally, but it's no great secret that they are focused on the end of the season and the playoffs. They don't care if it's the Western Conference and they enter the playoffs at the 6th seed. You may, they don't.

They want to figure out the best rotations and that will take time and it may very well cost them a few games you think they ought to have won. But the focus is not on winning every single game they play so much as building the best team for the playoffs. And I have no doubt they will be in the playoffs, and that really is all that matters. Anything else is a bonus.

Also? It's November. Save the panicking until at least early January, please. It is too early with too many new players in the mix for this kind of crap. Take up knitting or whittling or something else to occupy your time. This is nothing new, y'all.

Finally? OKC played much, much harder on defense than SA did. They crashed the boards harder and were extremely active in trying to disrupt passing lanes and force the offense. The Spurs have to improve their defense overall, and that too will take time.

Pop's playing for a 9th seed in order to get this thing figured out right. Oh wait, ..

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Spurs fans need to leave the coaching to the coaches.

[phxspurfan]

I'm pretty sure the game was lost when RJ got stopped by Sefolosha, with about 20 left on the clock, with a timeout to spare, down 3, after a turnover. We'll be fine. Just call the damn timeout. They know this and have admitted it was a mistake.

The rest of the game that led up to that point can be debated and debated, but basically it comes down to the fact that this is November basketball. We're not the Suns. We're a machine that needs to be hitting on all cylinders, and for that to happen we need time to warm up.

[Betsy]

I agree totally about Parker because he has a problem with hogging instead of passing! To many turn overs the dumbo has.
But leave Tim who is the best player the Spurs have. Back off about him.

[senorglory]

Through the first 8 games of the season, TD is leading the Spurs in points 15.8, rebounds 11.5, and blocks 1.7.

If he's had a monstrous drop off in ability, it's showing in the stats is pretty subtle.

[callo1]

Gotta bump this thread.

No doubt, Tim and Tony are the problems...oh wait, that was two weeks ago.

Are they still the problem, or is Timmy, who Pop admitted didnt do near the offfseason work and would have to play his way into game shape beginning to do just that?

Parker's 30 and 7 assists were horrid....TRADE him NOW !!

This is why you keep you hand away from the panic button 1 month into a season with seven new players.

Edgar...you there?

[senorglory]

i posted about this same theory on Tony Parker wanting to be like Iverson, I said back then he needs 8 to 9 assists per game in order for his shooting attempts not to hurt us. I said back then trade him while we can get a couple of players mayve even a first round pick for him while we still can.

Well, alright then spurs4real, you get credit for being completely and totally wrong before edgar came on here and was completely and totally wrong.

[duhoh]

i'm so glad most of these retarded ideas didn't come from pop

[jag]

I am one of the worst posters on this site.

[dbestpro]

Spurs fans need to leave the coaching to the coaches.

Well said, we should leave the coaching to the coaches, the teaching to the teachers, the laws to the politicians and we should sit down, shut up and never question anyone again, ever. ever, ever, ever.:sleep

[SpursWench21]

Gotta bump this thread.

No doubt, Tim and Tony are the problems...oh wait, that was two weeks ago.

Are they still the problem, or is Timmy, who Pop admitted didnt do near the offfseason work and would have to play his way into game shape beginning to do just that?

Parker's 30 and 7 assists were horrid....TRADE him NOW !!

This is why you keep you hand away from the panic button 1 month into a season with seven new players.

Edgar...you there?


LOLs.... plus 100. not to mention was it 5 boards and 2 steals for TP last night? I forget...im just happy with the current streak even w/o manu

[spurspokesman]

Duncan played well though. Tony hogging the damn ball like he is Iverson is the problem and was sometimes last year, he plays too much one and one and gets a bad shot in the end.
yup. But only iverson at least can pass a little.