Should tony start at the 2?

[Rob123]

After taking time to analyze these past games, it's abundantly clear that this team is a well oiled machine with Hill running the point. He creates for others first, and looks for his shot, which is always a high percentage one, last. He also plays tenacious defense to boot.

Obviously Tony is far too talented to be relegated to the bench, we should remove his play making responsibilities, and make him a pure scorer, then on defense, he and hill can switch assignments, so Hill can guard the more potent perimeter threat.

It appears that tony is trying his damndest to do what everyone wants him to do, be a play maker, and it's limiting what he actually is, an ungodly scorer.

[ducks]

how many assist did hill have running point
how many assist did tp average last year

[Rob123]

how many assist did hill have running point
how many assist did tp average last year

yeah, but how many of those assists were just simple passes to td in the post, or rmj for three.

Our team, and offense for that matter is no longer that simple. It takes someone with the quarter back mentality to corral all the talent we've got, and bring it together.

[ducks]

yeah it also takes more then 8 games
and pop did not play tp much this preason either and regular players alot of minutes

[portnoy1]

I cant say hill is a pure PG but under Pops training he can become a solid PG with the abilities of a Rondo. Its a little to late for Parker. Pop trained him to do what he does best because trying to find others limits him. So he scores and gets others involved based on that. If he is double teamed then he kicks out to a shooter. But as far as running a play for someone. He just doesn't think that way. As a PG you always have to be balanced which is difficult. Some PG's pass pass pass and are a liablilty on Offense. Some PGs shoot shoot shoot because thats the best way they help their team. Their are very few PG's who can do both well balanced. Rondo will make the extra pass even if he is open because he cant shoot. Parker will use his speed to score and the rest of his game (assist) will come off that. GHill can be trained to be a solid PG, not pure but solid. Parker needs to keep scoring, and Pop needs to run plays for RJ that way Parker's game wont suffer and RJ's game wont suffer.

[Rob123]

yeah it also takes more then 8 games
and pop did not play tp much this preason either and regular players alot of minutes

yeah well you're going off no sample size, and I'm going off an 8 game sample size, whose right? Probably neither of us.

Tony's never been surrounded by this much talent. He's always been a scorer, and he's always been able to get assists because of the 3 point shooting surrounding him, and td in the post. It'd be incorrect to say he cant be a pure point, it's just that we've never seen him actually be one, we've only seen him as a scoring guard...

Ghill on the other hand, may not rack up a bunch of assists, but that's because he sets up for the slashers, like rj, and he doesnt get credited with the assist. Going purely by stats is not a great way of seeing how well GHill actually runs the team. He's not perfect, but he works.

[HarlemHeat37]

I love Hill, but he isn't a good playmaker at all, definitely not good enough to start ahead of Tony..

[portnoy1]

yeah well you're going off no sample size, and I'm going off an 8 game sample size, whose right? Probably neither of us.

Tony's never been surrounded by this much talent. He's always been a scorer, and he's always been able to get assists because of the 3 point shooting surrounding him, and td in the post. It'd be incorrect to say he cant be a pure point, it's just that we've never seen him actually be one, we've only seen him as a scoring guard...

Ghill on the other hand, may not rack up a bunch of assists, but that's because he sets up for the slashers, like rj, and he doesnt get credited with the assist. Going purely by stats is not a great way of seeing how well GHill actually runs the team. He's not perfect, but he works.:tu:tu:tu

[AussieFanKurt]

Give us 30 games and see whats happening

[lennyalderette]

good idea, we must make him incorporate the whole team, the way to do that? easy bench him when he is ball hogging, and he wont do it anymore, its up to the coach to not reward bad play

[TIMMYD!]

By the all-star break we will be an incredible team and no one here will be doubting anything.

[lotr1trekkie]

If Manu can come off the bench why not Tim? Start Tony, Dice, Ratliff ,Jefferson and Mason. The second unit would be Tim, Manu, Hill , Blair and Bonner/ Finley/ Bogans. Has any team ever had a second unit better than the first? We could.

[portnoy1]

If Manu can come off the bench why not Tim? Start Tony, Dice, Ratliff ,Jefferson and Mason. The second unit would be Tim, Manu, Hill , Blair and Bonner/ Finley/ Bogans. Has any team ever had a second unit better than the first? We could.
This who starts and who doesnt thing is getting out of hand. Bottom Line TIM/TONY/RJ are practically gonna always start. Anything else is debatable, hence the constant threads. But Tim coming off the bench. Really:lmao

[timaios]

I can't believe the meltdown about Parker for 1 bad game, after returning from an ankle injury. It's surreal.
I am sure i can find 7 or 8 games from last year where he played worst than yesterday.

And i will say it again, George Hill is a great SG, great defender, rebounder and now scorer... but he is not a playmaker.
Maybe, with some time he will become a great PG but come on, you started this thread after a game where he had 0 assist in 32 min.

Seriously, this forum was so much better 1 or 2 years ago. :depressed

[DPG21920]

You may be able to find 7 or 8 games last year where TP played worse, but those were sprinkled in between 70 other games that were excellent.

TP was playing terrible from the start this year and the concerns are not about this one game. He clearly looks different and it is hard to say what is the cause (National team play, adjustment to new teammates,...).

[My Fault]

Hill may be solid as backup PG but starting over TP9... Its funny people actually think starting Hill over an all-star PG is a good idea. I like Hill at 2 but still rather see Bogans start there. Having a player like Hill on your bench is not a bad thing. Not to mention Hill starting is likely to lead to Mason spending more time at the point.

[timaios]

You may be able to find 7 or 8 games last year where TP played worse, but those were sprinkled in between 70 other games that were excellent.

TP was playing terrible from the start this year and the concerns are not about this one game. He clearly looks different and it is hard to say what is the cause (National team play, adjustment to new teammates,...).

I disagree.

1st game vs Hornets 6/9 6ast 17pts in 26 min. He was very good.
2nd game vs Bulls he was awful as everybody except Tim.
3rd game vs Kings 10/16 7ast 2stl 24pts in 27 min. He was great.
4th game vs Jazz 6/14 (9/9 FT) 3ast 21pts in 28min. He was average.
5th game vs Blazers he played only 11 min and was not good in those 11 minutes.
6th game vs Thunder. He played poorly... back from injury.

So in the first 4 games he played, Parker was very good in 2 games, average in 1 game and awful in 1 game.
He only played 11min in the 5th. And played a bad 6th game for his return from injury.

Considering he almost didn't played the preseason because of Pop, I think the start of his season is OK. (except the injury.)

[DPG21920]

Well I am not talking about his numbers. If you watch the games, he is not playing well. He has only had one or maybe two good games and those were the games against the Hornets and Kings. In the Kings game he was good and even then he did not look great.

Spurs have 0 margin for error. There are a lot of questions going into this season (Manu and Tim's health, new guys, ...), TP was not a question mark. They needed him to take another step forward from last year or at least stay the same. The Spurs could not have foreseen nor could they afford TP going backwards, which clearly he has so far this season for various reasons.

Also, like I said, he only probably had 7 or 8 bad games the entire last season. Now, through the first 8 games (6 he has played) he has not played well. Playing well in 2 out of 6 games is not playing well and his bad games have looked really bad.

Nothing to be alarmed about yet, but something is clearly wrong with Tony Parker right now and it has nothing to do with one game.

[timaios]

Well I am not talking about his numbers. If you watch the games, he is not playing well. He has only had one or maybe two good games and those were the games against the Hornets and Kings. In the Kings game he was good and even then he did not look great.

Spurs have 0 margin for error. There are a lot of questions going into this season (Manu and Tim's health, new guys, ...), TP was not a question mark. They needed him to take another step forward from last year or at least stay the same. The Spurs could not have foreseen nor could they afford TP going backwards, which clearly he has so far this season for various reasons.

Also, like I said, he only probably had 7 or 8 bad games the entire last season. Now, through the first 8 games (6 he has played) he has not played well. Playing well in 2 out of 6 games is not playing well and his bad games have looked really bad.

Nothing to be alarmed about yet, but something is clearly wrong with Tony Parker right now and it has nothing to do with one game.

Again i disagree. I watched all the games 2 times (1 time live on my computer & 1 time (downloaded) on my tv.)

He was playing very well in 2 games and he had a great 3rd quarter in Utah.
You can't judge a player, at least fairly, in a 11 min game and in a game back from injury (Blazers & Thunder).
So, like I said, 4 games : 2 good, 1 average and 1 awful... and not like you said "TP was playing terrible from the start this year".
If the Spurs wanted Parker to be in full throttle from the start of the regular season, Pop needed to play him big minutes in all the preseason games.
His choice was to rest Parker, the good choice IMHO for the long term (like Tim & Manu). But it means that Parker needs some games to be in full shape... and the injury is not helping.

What is really annoying these days on Spurstalk : some fans analyse the instant and don't look at the big picture.
One day, one spurs player has a great game, he is the best player in the world, the next day that same player is awful and suddenly he is a POS.

I am really getting tired of all that nonsense.

So the Spurs are not playing well right now, that's why there is a coach.
Pop will fix the problems.

[DPG21920]

I agree with the long term picture, but most here don't agree with your take on TP so far this year. He has played poorly overall. His good has not looked as good as last year. TP should have been in shape. He played all summer long.

It is not like you said "meltdown about TP after 1 game". It has been a season long thing so far. If you are happy with TP's play so far, that is your opinion. But he has not been good enough. That was my point.

[timaios]

I agree with the long term picture, but most here don't agree with your take on TP so far this year. He has played poorly overall. His good has not looked as good as last year. TP should have been in shape. He played all summer long.

It is not like you said "meltdown about TP after 1 game". It has been a season long thing so far. If you are happy with TP's play so far, that is your opinion. But he has not been good enough. That was my point.

Well, all I can say is I don't understand you.
I will not say again what I said in my previous posts.

If you think he was playing terrible in the Hornets and Kings games, I don't understand you.

It's the start of the season, you're not supposed to be great in the first games (especially when your coach rested you in the preseason games). I was not expecting a great start for Parker and the Spurs, so I am not too disappointed.

Spurs before the regular season :

Plenty of new guys in the team.
Tim & Manu out of shape.
Tony rested in the preseason.
Pop tinkering with the lineups.

It was a recipe for a slow start.

[DPG21920]

Here is what you said: "I can't believe the meltdown about Parker for 1 bad game". I said it is not one game, it is the entire season. So I meant I disagreed with you that people were saying things about TP just because of this last game.

You say: "No, look at his numbers, he has played 2 bad games, 2 good games, and 1 ok game". I once again say he has not played well this season and that is why people are upset; it is not just one game like you said.

Then you say he is out of shape, when he played basketball all summer.

I then say, I agree about the big picture view point, but you are wrong about the "one game" statement with regards to TP. Even if he has played 2 good games, the rest have been bad or just ok.

Yes, no matter what, it was going to be a rocky start and people should not freak out yet. But TP's play was not supposed to be like this. He has not looked the same and it is not from being out of shape. He will adjust though and things should be ok.

[timaios]

Then you say he is out of shape, when he played basketball all summer.

He didn't play basketball for 6 weeks after the NT competition.
And he is out of rhythm, not out of shape.
When sports players are starting a season, they are sloppy. That's why there is a preseason.

Anyway i am tired, it's 2.58 am here, and we're not going to be agree. That's fine.

The conclusion is Parker was bad yesterday, it was his 1st game after his injury, nothing suprising here.
We'll see against the Mavs, if there is some progress or not. :toast