Chinese not impressed with Hopenchange

[DarrinS]

Damn, even David Gergen is calling Obama weak.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/11/18/obama-in-china-a-wake-up-call/





Barack Obama has recently been reading up on the presidency of John F. Kennedy. Coming home from China, he might well focus on Kennedy’s first summit overseas with the leader of the Soviet Union, Nikita Khrushchev. Indeed, we all could learn from that episode.

Like Obama, Kennedy came into office as an inspiring figure, an idealist who stirred hopes for the future and yet was inexperienced in the exercise of power. At the time, the Soviet Union was a rising nation that was threatening the global leadership of the United States.

In the fall of his first year in office, Kennedy went to Europe where he was welcomed grandly until he arrived in Vienna to sit down with Khrushchev. Kennedy, the idealist, thought that his charm and his appeals to reason would win over the Soviet leader. Instead, Khrushchev bullied him unmercifully and the men were unable to agree on anything of substance. Polite reasoning went nowhere.

According to Kennedy biographer Richard Reeves, Khruschev left the meeting telling associates, “He’s very young… not strong enough. Too intelligent and too weak.” Khrushchev concluded that he could push Kennedy around and started causing mischief from Berlin to Cuba.


Kennedy was shaken but, fortunately, he didn’t go into denial. He went into action, treating the meeting as a wake-up call. In the months that followed, he became a much tougher, more assertive president, and a year later when a showdown came over Khrushchev sneaking missiles into Cuba, Kennedy was an outstanding leader – and he turned the tables on Khrushchev.

Why bring up that story now, as President Obama comes home from Asia? Because it has considerable relevance to his meetings in China with President Hu.

Obama went into those sessions like Kennedy: with great hope that his charm and appeal to reason – qualities so admired in the United States – would work well with Hu. By numerous accounts, that is not at all what happened: reports from correspondents on the scene are replete with statements that Hu stiffed the President, that he rejected arguments about Chinese human rights and currency behavior while scolding the U.S. for its trade policies, and that he stage-managed the visit so that Obama – unlike Clinton and Bush before him – was unable to reach a large Chinese audience through television.

To be fair, President Obama seemed to handle the situation better than Kennedy did: he wasn’t humiliated, he did secure some generalized agreements, and – so the White House believes – he laid the groundwork for a productive, long-term relationship. We shall see.

But it is equally clear that this was not at all the kind of summit that an American administration would want – and it does bear some ominous similarities to the Kennedy-Khrushchev talks in Vienna.

It would seem wise not only for President Obama but for all Americans to treat this as a wake-up call.

For the President, the challenge is whether he will start approaching international affairs with a greater measure of toughness, standing up more firmly and assertively for American interests. Yes, he must still be the man of reason and peace, but that can easily be read as a sign of weakness by others unless he balances it with the inner steel that is essential in international affairs. The most recent issue of Forbes identifies Obama and Hu as the two most powerful people on the planet – but it is Obama who is Number One, not Hu. (capitalizing "One" -- nice touch)

For the United States, this trip should also send a clear message that the balance of power is changing in the world.

Even though China is still a relatively weak country compared to the U.S., it is rising rapidly, and people around the globe are wondering if China represents the future – and the U.S. the past. We need to wake up, too, recognizing that we have to pull ourselves together to solve the challenges before us – living beyond our means for too long, building up too much debt, allowing China to become our biggest creditor, refusing to overcome our polarization, allowing our political discourse to degenerate so that it is hard to find sensible answers, and on and on.

Unless we do pull together as a great people, we will find that our whole country – not just our President – will be in for a very rough ride. Downhill.

[ChumpDumper]

Which was the last president that was tough when it came to China?

Eisenhower, I guess.

[mogrovejo]

If I were the Chinese government, I'd be very worried about Obamacare.

[ChumpDumper]

China is going to spend billions to expand public health coverage of its own citizens.

I guess you're scared about that too.

Boo!

[sabar]

Pretty sure China isn't impressed with anyone from the west. There's no use in trying to sway China in any direction with any approach. They are a dictatorship with widespread influence and allies in their region. Plus they are expanding economically and militarily at huge rates.

We are heading into a transitionary period where China will be a world power and we will not be clearly superior in technology or finances. We'll be in no position to make demands from our creditors and China is well aware of the power it currently has and will soon have.

If I was China I would be worried about nothing. No nation will attack you, you are expanding rapidly in all areas, the most powerful nation owes you gargantuan amounts of money, and you run an authoritarian government with no opposition. Only silly bloggers and talking heads fail to see the truth. You need to be tough with people below you, not with people that literally own you.

[ChumpDumper]

Actually, the Chinese are worried about a slowdown in their economic growth. Apparently they see a push towards universal health coverage as a way to help restore their higher rates of growth.

[Danny.Zhu]

Even though China is still a relatively weak country compared to the U.S., it is rising rapidly, and people around the globe are wondering if China represents the future – and the U.S. the past. We need to wake up, too, recognizing that we have to pull ourselves together to solve the challenges before us – living beyond our means for too long, building up too much debt, allowing China to become our biggest creditor, refusing to overcome our polarization, allowing our political discourse to degenerate so that it is hard to find sensible answers, and on and on.

You American can rest assure that China and USA will not be in the same league in the near future. So many unsolved problems here.

[mogrovejo]

China is going to spend billions to expand public health coverage of its own citizens.

I guess you're scared about that too.

Boo!



China questions costs of U.S. healthcare reform (http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/11/16/china-questions-costs-of-us-healthcare-reform/) Post a comment (488) (http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/2009/11/16/china-questions-costs-of-us-healthcare-reform/#respond)
Posted by: James Pethokoukis (http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/author/jamespethokoukis/)
Tags: Uncategorized (http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/category/uncategorized/), budget deficit (http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/tag/budget-deficit/), China (http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/tag/china/), healthcare reform (http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/tag/healthcare-reform/), national debt (http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokoukis/tag/national-debt/)


Guess what? It turns out the Chinese are kind of curious about how President Barack Obama’s healthcare reform plans would impact America’s huge fiscal deficit. Government officials are using his Asian trip as an opportunity to ask the White House questions. Detailed questions.

Boilerplate assurances that America won’t default on its debt or inflate the shortfall away are apparently not cutting it. Nor should they, when one owns nearly $2 trillion in assets denominated in the currency of a country about to double its national debt over the next decade.


Nothing happening in Washington today should give Beijing any comfort or confidence about what may happen tomorrow. Healthcare reform was originally promoted as a way to “bend the curve” on escalating entitlement costs, the major part of which is financing Medicare and Medicaid. That is looking more and more like an overpromised deliverable.


For instance, a new study from the U.S. government’s Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services finds that the healthcare reform bill recently passed in the House of Representatives would increase healthcare spending to 21.3 percent of GDP by 2019 compared with 20.8 percent under current law. That’s bending the curve the wrong way. The study also questions the “long-term viability” of the $500 billion in Medicare cuts meant to help pay for expanded insurance coverage.


In addition, the CMS study gives a clearer cost estimate than the one provided by the Congressional Budget Office. According to the CBO, the 10-year cost of PelosiCare is $894 billion. But that analysis includes early years with little government spending, According to the CMS, the House approach would cost $1 trillion from 2013-2019, or some $140 billion a year when fully put into effect.


Few realists in Washington think any of the current reform plans make a significant dent in the long-term healthcare cost to government. Indeed, the Senate Budget Committee recently held hearing about creating a bipartisan commission to find solutions to America’s entitlements problems.
If healthcare reform really bent the curve, there would be a no need for such a commission to do Healthcare Reform 2.0.


The Chinese might want to keep up the questioning.



Oops.

I suppose it's difficult to grasp reality through the lens of fanaticism.

[coyotes_geek]

China doesn't need to worry about being paid back. Both democrats and republicans are unanimous in their desire not to see China cut off their credit card. If it means telling generations of Americans "tough shit" and then taking away some/all of their medicare and social security benefits so that the debt burden can be maintained, then so be it. That's exactly what's going to happen. If we've learned anything from the last 2 years it should be that banks come before people.

[Winehole23]

If we've learned anything from the last 2 years it should be that banks come before people.:bang:bang:bang

[coyotes_geek]

:bang:bang:bang

The truth definitely hurts on this one. I don't like it any more than you do.

[clambake]

that had everything except a question from a chinamen.

[mogrovejo]

China doesn't need to worry about being paid back. Both democrats and republicans are unanimous in their desire not to see China cut off their credit card. If it means telling generations of Americans "tough shit" and then taking away some/all of their medicare and social security benefits so that the debt burden can be maintained, then so be it. That's exactly what's going to happen. If we've learned anything from the last 2 years it should be that banks come before people.

Really? You're very optimistic. Historically, the most used tool to solve the problem is inflation. This is the reason why China is worried, not exactly that the US may default.

[EmptyMan]

China is going to spend billions to expand public health coverage of its own citizens.

I guess you're scared about that too.

Boo!


Here's a shot, now go back to your hut and attend our rice patty.

[Winehole23]

Really? You're very optimistic. Historically, the most used tool to solve the problem is inflation. This is the reason why China is worried, not exactly that the US may default.True, but national default came into the picture last fall.

With structural trillion dollar deficits, a massive and growing national debt, unfunded Medicare/ Social Security liabilities and the fear of functional default for our creditors (should we carry the tactic of inflating away our debt too far), any circumstance sufficient to cause our creditors to lose confidence in the USA again, could bring US default back into the picture. The once unthinkable is not only thinkable, it's a damn possibility.

[ChumpDumper]

Oops.

I suppose it's difficult to grasp reality through the lens of fanaticism.Oops, there was nothing to back the editorial up.

And as I said, China is doing much the same thing we are considering to effect economic benefits.

So if you have an baseless editorial refuting that, go ahead and post it.

[mogrovejo]

Oops, there was nothing to back the editorial up.

What do you mean by this? Are you saying that you don't believe in the Reuters post about how the Chinese government is worried about Obamacare?




And as I said, China is doing much the same thing we are considering to effect economic benefits.

So if you have an baseless editorial refuting that, go ahead and post it.

China is doing exactly what? I don't think you understand the point. The Chinese should be worried, as I said, because Obamacare in the current US budgetary situation. If Obama said tomorrow "you know, we're going to go ahead with the health-care expansion but the federal government won't spend another dollar in anything else: not another dime to the social security, to the education system, to the military, to subsidize "green energies"... it's all over" I doubt the Chinese would be worried about Obamacare.

If you're argument is that China, who are the creditor, shouldn't be worried about a gigantic expansion of public health coverage in the US, the debtor and a country whose public debt is coming close to 100% of the GDP because they, a country whose public debt is much smaller in absolute value and not above 40% of the GDP, are making a similar expansion, I really don't know what to say.

[ChumpDumper]

What do you mean by this? Are you saying that you don't believe in the Reuters post about how the Chinese government is worried about Obamacare?I'm saying there is no substance to it. Maybe if there were actual quotes from Chinese officials and the like.


China is doing exactly what? I don't think you understand the point. The Chinese should be worried, as I said, because Obamacare in the current US budgetary situation. If Obama said tomorrow "you know, we're going to go ahead with the health-care expansion but the federal government won't spend another dollar in anything else: not another dime to the social security, to the education system, to the military, to subsidize "green energies"... it's all over" I doubt the Chinese would be worried about Obamacare.So they are just worried about the overall level of spending.

Why didn't you just say so?


If you're argument is that China, who are the creditor, shouldn't be worried about a gigantic expansion of public health coverage in the US, the debtor and a country whose public debt is coming close to 100% of the GDP because they, a country whose public debt is much smaller in absolute value and not above 40% of the GDP, are making a similar expansion, I really don't know what to say.So they aren't really worried about Obamacare, just spending in general.

Why didn't you say so?

[angrydude]

China nowadays is nothing if not pragmatic. They've got too many problems not to be. They've got to realize though that nobody can keep up 8 percent growth in GDP forever.

[CosmicCowboy]

China nowadays is nothing if not pragmatic. They've got too many problems not to be. They've got to realize though that nobody can keep up 8 percent growth in GDP forever.

And with their age demographics they NEED 8% growth just to create new jobs for the younger ones coming into the workforce. They have taken the capitalist genie out of the bottle and they can't put it back now.

[admiralsnackbar]

Pretty sure China isn't impressed with anyone from the west. There's no use in trying to sway China in any direction with any approach. They are a dictatorship with widespread influence and allies in their region. Plus they are expanding economically and militarily at huge rates.

We are heading into a transitionary period where China will be a world power and we will not be clearly superior in technology or finances. We'll be in no position to make demands from our creditors and China is well aware of the power it currently has and will soon have.

If I was China I would be worried about nothing. No nation will attack you, you are expanding rapidly in all areas, the most powerful nation owes you gargantuan amounts of money, and you run an authoritarian government with no opposition. Only silly bloggers and talking heads fail to see the truth. You need to be tough with people below you, not with people that literally own you.

China is far away from being in the position to be indifferent to the needs and wants of the US market. In 30 years, yes -- but now, I think they just want their investment in us to render fruit.

[nkdlunch]

LOL now why would USA play tough with daddy?

[mogrovejo]

I'm saying there is no substance to it. Maybe if there were actual quotes from Chinese officials and the like.

Are you saying that Reuters is lying?

You were really expecting Chinese officials to raise these kind of questions in public?



So they are just worried about the overall level of spending.

Why didn't you just say so?

So they aren't really worried about Obamacare, just spending in general.

Why didn't you say so?

They are worried about Obamacare. Most of the deficit is structural, so much harder to correct, Obamacare can still be stopped.

[ChumpDumper]

Are you saying that Reuters is lying?I'm saying it's an opinion piece. A blog entry. One that has no sources at all.


You were really expecting Chinese officials to raise these kind of questions in public?Why wouldn't they?


They are worried about Obamacare. Most of the deficit is structural, so much harder to correct, Obamacare can still be stopped.They're worried about spending. You proved that with your own post.

[Cry Havoc]

I'm a little unclear on this thread.

China is a communist country. Which apparently to "conservatives" on this board communist=fascist=socialist.

I shudder to think how much Obama would be ripped on this board if China was cheering him on. There would be no end to how much vitriol and hate there would be spewed about how the evil communist nation loves our president and how that means we're essentially a 100% c/f/s government overnight.

[clambake]

this is a weird thread.

the chinese are shockingly quiet in here.

i think the title is a hoax.

[ChumpDumper]

Republicans are the communist Chinese biggest fans.

[mogrovejo]

I'm saying it's an opinion piece. A blog entry. One that has no sources at all.

That was not what I asked. The guy isn't stating his opinion about if the Chinese officials are worried or have raised questions about Obamacare. He didn't write "I think the Chinese may have asked questions". He states that they asked. So, the question remains: do you believe in what he wrote or you think he was lying?

[ChumpDumper]

That was not what I asked. The guy isn't stating his opinion about if the Chinese officials are worried or have raised questions about Obamacare. He didn't write "I think the Chinese may have asked questions". He states that they asked. So, the question remains: do you believe in what he wrote or you think he was lying?I believe he didn't back up his opinion with anything at all.

Do you think he did?

How many "officials" are there in China?

Which ones did he personally contact?

[mogrovejo]

I believe he didn't back up his opinion with anything at all.

Do you think he did?

How many "officials" are there in China?

Which ones did he personally contact?

You're still trying to dodge the question. It's not about his opinion, he's clearly stating that Chinese officials have raised questions about Obamacare. You either believe this is true (and that he got this info from reliable sources) or not. Which is it?

Or do you never believe in any article that doesn't name sources?

[Ignignokt]

http://www.musicofnature.com/songsofinsects/images/large_jpg/014a_gryllus-_LE_SLIDE.jpg

[clambake]

the problem with this articles content is it lacks the inclusion of even one chinese official.

[ChumpDumper]

You're still trying to dodge the question. It's not about his opinion, he's clearly stating that Chinese officials have raised questions about Obamacare. You either believe this is true (and that he got this info from reliable sources) or not. Which is it?Since he never said where he got it and which officials said it, I am skeptical about it. I'm sure he has a bias regarding this subject.


Or do you never believe in any article that doesn't name sources?Do you believe EVERY opinion blog that doesn't name sources? I don't.

Why would every Chinese official keep completely off the record about this?

[mogrovejo]

Since he never said where he got it and which officials said it, I am skeptical about it. I'm sure he has a bias regarding this subject.

Why are you sure he has a bias? Because you don't like what he wrote? Do you have any proof the guy is biased or are you just throwing mud?


http://www.tnr.com/article/economy/peking-over-our-shoulder



And yet, there was budget director Peter Orszag rushing to a lunch with Chinese bureaucrats on a Monday in late July. To his surprise, when Orszag arrived at the site of the annual U.S.-China Strategic and Economic Dialogue (S&ED), the Chinese didn’t dwell on the Wall Street meltdown or the global recession. The bureaucrats at his table mostly wanted to know about health care reform, which Orszag has helped shepherd. “They were intrigued by the most recent legislative developments,” Orszag says. “It was like, ‘You’re fresh from the field, what can you tell us?’?”


As it happens, health care is much on the minds of the Chinese these days. Over the last few years, as China has become the world’s largest purchaser of Treasury bonds, the government has grown increasingly sophisticated in its understanding of U.S. budget deficits. The issue has become all the more pressing in recent months, as the financial crisis and recession pushed the deficit to record levels. With nearly half of their $2 trillion in foreign currency reserves invested in U.S. bonds alone, the Chinese are understandably concerned about our creditworthiness. And this concern has brought them ineluctably to the issue of health care. “At some point, if you refuse to contain health care costs, you’ll go bankrupt,” says Andy Xie, a prominent Shanghai-based economist, formerly of Morgan Stanley. “It’s widely known among [Chinese] policymakers.” Xie himself wrote a much-read piece on the subject in 2007 for Caijing magazine–kind of the Chinese version of Fortune.
What about this?

[clambake]

i guess "intrigued" has taken on a whole new meaning.

[ChumpDumper]

The blogwriter's bias is clear. If you can't tell that, you are a poor reader.
The bureaucrats at his table mostly wanted to know about health care reform, which Orszag has helped shepherd. “They were intrigued by the most recent legislative developments,” Orszag says. “It was like, ‘You’re fresh from the field, what can you tell us?’?”Well, since they are themselves starting to enact massive health care reform, they could very well want to know how we are going about it and compare/contrast it with their plans.

[Yonivore]

NxYSduRES1o
I guess we'll get a fact-check from Wolf Blitzer on this too.

[mogrovejo]

The blogwriter's bias is clear. If you can't tell that, you are a poor reader.

Again, do you have any proof that the writer is biased? Do you have any reason to say that besides not liking what he wrote?


Well, since they are themselves starting to enact massive health care reform, they could very well want to know how we are going about it and compare/contrast it with their plans.

Really? With the budget director?

Btw, is the writer of this piece also biased?

I think that for everyone besides hardcore fanatics it's clear that the Chinese are worried about Obamacare and raised questions about it.

[ChumpDumper]

Again, do you have any proof that the writer is biased? Do you have any reason to say that besides not liking what he wrote?Sure. His writing.

Do you have any proof he had contact with Chinese officials who matter?


Really? With the budget director?Why not? He seems to be involved in the budget, right?


Btw, is the writer of this piece also biased?I don't believe in perfectly unbiased writers. It's a goal, but not one that can actually be realized.


I think that for everyone besides hardcore fanatics it's clear that the Chinese are worried about Obamacare and raised questions about it.I think you really respect the communists and use them to guide your opinion on domestic policy. You have shown no proof to the contrary. Your bias is towards the communists.

[ChumpDumper]

And thanks for dodging my questions.

Don't think it wasn't noticed.